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Original Message
" Love/Loathe List BB17 #9"

Posted by Aruba on 08-24-15 at 06:45 PM
JAMES – Four HOHs ago when he had the power, spirited debate was had on whether he was an idiot who killed his game. Kingfish and I didn’t think so. Personally my assessment was let’s wait a few weeks and see where he is. Well, the following has happened since then...a separate piece was aired focusing on how he socially bonded with Steve. Another piece followed focusing on his social game with Meg. I think he’s gotten a decent amount of mileage in the game as the season’s practical joker. And with the current HOH having his choices of who to honor and who to turn on, Austin was adamant in honoring James (and tagalong Meg.) HIGH FIVE to Kingfish...we mailed it buddy!
(I know Michel will regard this as yet another jab, but honestly, for this assessment my primary motive here is to share well deserved props with Kingfish.)

AUSTIN – In great position—and not only because he won HOH as much as his ability to form alliances with several HGs. Vanessa and the twins are bigger targets. And the duos of James/Meg and Johnny/Steve appear to have bigger targets than this big man. Considered putting him #1 this week if not for his “what the hell was he trying to say” nomination speech. I still believe he doesn’t get the necessary votes to win unless he’s sitting next to a goat in the F2.

LIZ – Having all the power this past week (HOH and POV winner) I thought she handled her reign quite well. Her only real backfire is if Becky wins her way back into the House.

JOHNNY – He’s still the odds on favorite for the 25K fan award this season, but he’s getting too carried away with this “throwing the competition” and “pawn” crap. You keep going to the well, you’ll eventually come up dry. If he’s unable to win POV that will be the case as EVERYONE has to see Johnny as a much bigger threat to win than Steve. But if he is to walk out the door, this would be the best week giving him a realistic shot to win his way back in.

VANESSA – If her emotional and hypocritical antics were pulling the wool over the HGs eyes, I’d give her credit and rank her higher even though her lack of integrity defines the pathetic person she is. But she’s not fooling anyone; they’re ALL on to her. Fortunately for her, the “right” HG has won the last three HOHs. Even more fortunate for her, meat shields don’t come any more appetizing than Vanessa at this stage of the game.

JULIA – Simply put, she’s getting carried by the dominant alliance she fell into. Instead of bellyaching why sis didn’t pick you for POV, here’s a concept...prove to her you’re worthy and not the pathetic competitor you’ve been thus far. Still getting a kick observing her disgust over the Austin/Liz showmance.

”GRANDMA” MEG – TOOOO funny. My grandmother used to wear the same lipstick Meg wears all the time and she sorta laughed like Meg too. Big difference is my grandma was in much better condition (even in her 80s) than Meg. But I must admit my grandmother was generations ahead of her time when it came to the exercise craze. Conversely, Meg continues to be a competition joke. But that’s OK grandma, just keep latching onto Jamsey and you’ll continue to float nicely.

STEVE – What a bonehead! His insistence to NOT go on the block next to Johnny Mac SCREAMS of an obvious partnership. He’s lucky most will probably perceive Johnny as a bigger threat. Even if he survives, he’s on the bottom rung with every possible alliance and he has no chance to run the table with competition wins. Oh, and no need to ponder and be distraught as to how Vanessa pulled it off—she’s a much better lying sack of sh!t than you’ll ever be.

ECIVTED) BECKY – I give her credit for owning up to her shortcomings during her interview with Julie. Yet another perfect example of “You are, who you are, who you are.” But who requests kale in an HOH basket??? Has a fighting chance of winning her way back into the game.


Table of contents

Messages in this discussion
"My List"
Posted by michel2 on 08-24-15 at 08:56 PM
Aruba, you are so predictable!

1- Vanessa: This season's best player by miles. Every player that has left the game has commented on her great game play. Her biggest problem is that these players are really bad at keeping secrets, hurting their games and hers at the same time. Not too long ago she was completely boxed in by John but now she has turned the table on him and he is more or less at her mercy. Yes, she has a big target on her back but she still has tricks up her sleeve.

No other player is worth ranking in second place because they are either boring or bad players. I'll have to find another way to rank them


7th to last - Austin: He should be a big target but I have to admire his ability to make deals with everyone. It was funny to watch him flipping and flopping on his nominations until Vanessa told him what to do. It became obvious that he was more intererested in making her beg for her safety than in advancing his own game. As soon as he made the decision, he got called to the DR so that he couldn't change his mind again. This was obviously production's way of protecting Vanessa, telling us that they also realize that she is their best player.

6th to Last - Liz: The hirsute beast is winning her over which I find hard to understand but good for him. He's getting a bit of action under the covers which is gross when you think about it but what can you do? At least she's managed to avoid being a target and she is able to see that it would all change if she didn't have Vanessa on her side.

5th to Last - John: I was curious to see how far Johnny Mac would fall in Aruba's rankings and sure enough he fell exactly where I thought he would. Yet his tactic of throwing the challenge worked well enough to get a deal from the Austwins. Had he been a little more aware of the situation, he would have seen that his deal was far from being unique and he would have realized that his plan to target Vanessa wasn't working.


4th to Last - Julia: It was Julia that went to Vanessa to warn her that Austin was close to nominating her. She was quick enough to realize the impending disaster and to get Vanessa back to the HoH room. Austin and Liz don't consider her opinion but she may be the only one that thinks clearly in that threesome.

3rd to Last - James: I will admit that James has some good points but this messy guy is dumb. Everyone mentioned that they don't trust him because "he wants to make big moves" yet he prefers to go with the Austwins instead of against them. He is so dumb that he is counting on his Final Five deal with them. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd even boot Jackie if she came back in the house if Austin asked him. The way he abandonned Becky during her HoH was pitiful. And before you defend him, Aruba, consider what you wrote: "And the duos of James/Meg and Johnny/Steve appear to have bigger targets than this big man..." It's really bad game play if James is a bigger target than a member of that unbreakable threesome...

2nd to Last - Meg: I simply loved the work of the sound editors during the boring OTEV competition. They were letting us hear Meg's DR confessional in voice over just before her face plant and they cut her mid sentence just when she hit the deck: "I have to win to keep the nomina...THUD!" She's cute and I like the way she is staying off the radar but she isn't involved enough in the game so she has no chance of winning. She'd need to step it up a bit, go to the HoH room more, maybe even make some Final 2 deals that she could sell to the jury, show them that she wasn't just a goat.

Last - Steve: What a bonehead is right. On this we completely agree.

Evicted - Becky: Here's where I wonder if our host makes his own list or if he is more interested in contradicting me. This woman didn't flirt, she won some competitions and she played proactively yet she never received any credit from Aruba. That's strange until you realize that I defended her up to the week where she won HoH and decided she needed to make a big move. That killed her game and disproved Aruba's arguments so that explains it...



"RE: My List"
Posted by kingfish on 08-25-15 at 10:40 AM
Just a niggling quibble;

"It's really bad game play if James is a bigger target than a member of that unbreakable threesome..."

That is a strong threesome at the moment, but they are hardly unbreakable. It only takes an HoH win in the near future by Meg, James, or John to break them up into a duo. Vanessa might provide some shielding, or she might not.


"RE: My List"
Posted by michel2 on 08-25-15 at 04:10 PM
I understand that but what I meant is that Austin, Liz and Julia will never break apart. That should make them HUGE targets yet Aruba feels that James is a bigger target than Austin so that should tell him how bad James' game actually is. The fact that James is planning on an F5 with the Austwins shows it even more clearly.

"RE: My List"
Posted by Aruba on 08-25-15 at 07:14 PM
With six out of the eight HGs ranked similar on BOTH of our lists, I’d actually call that UNpredictable. HaHa.

If all these supposed “bad players” have a read on Vanessa, then that certainly doesn’t bode well for HER. Unlike Derrick last season when he had a REAL bunch of dummies buffaloed all season, I don’t see that the case this season pertaining to Vanessa and this cast.

Johnny is more at Vanessa's mercy because Liz and Austin won back-to-back HOHs. Had Becky & James won back-to-back HOHs instead, Vanessa would be in (or on her way) to the Jury and the Johnny/Vanessa situation would be reversed. But she’s not out of the woods yet; if Johnny or Steve win POV she could very well still be a renom option.

Austin stopped his flip-flopping when he finally got Vanessa to openly admit what a lying hypocrite she is. Fact of the matter, Austin (as well as most of the House) knows an appetizing meat shield when he sees one. As for your attempt to deal yet another conspiracy card...now it’s my turn...Michel, YOU are so predictable! Touche

It wasn’t only throwing competitions (which I’m not a huge fan of) but it’s also Johnny’s continued acceptance to be used as a pawn. That’s where my “going to the well too often” applies.

Is James a horny toad simpleton is real life? Probably; but in the House he’s appeared to have found a niche. If you’re confident in your ability to win key competitions in the endgame, you need to do what you can to get there and James bonding with the Austwins is a good option for him to get to that point.

Before you ride James too hard for “abandoning” Becky, let’s not forget everyone (including Becky) abandoned HIM first the week prior when he was HOH and was targeting Shelli.

I’m not saying James/Meg is a bigger target than the Austwins. Actually I would rank Liz/Julia as a bigger target than James/Meg. I was talking about Austin individually when assessing him in my ranking making a case about his individual position in the game.

Quite honestly I’m disappointed in Becky’s competition scorecard. She only one ONE individual comp and I thought she would fare much better. I don’t care for the dual HOHs and BOB format. With that twist you have shared wins and way too many BOBs are thrown to credit the other pair with a legitimate win. Now if she could pull off a crucial win on Thursday, get back in the game and start a run, all that could change.

When casting male HGs this season, I think it’s safe to say eye candy was not a determining factor. Sure, every guy wouldn’t mind looking like Clay, but Shelli took dibs on him the first second into the season. Consequently, this makes the flirt and/or skank factor limited at best. By no means do I consider Becky ugly, but ranking all the female HGs I’d have her as the least attractive making the flirt factor even less of a successful option for her.

I soured on Becky for three reasons. 1) When HOH (her ONLY individual win) tossing Vanessa aside in such a cold insensitive manner was plain stupid, 2) turning into a snitch, and 3) being a greedy oink oink in competitions. I’m not asking you to agree with those reasons because I know you don’t. The reason I mention them is to assure you me souring on Becky around the same time she started moving up your ranking was purely coincidental and not a conscious attempt to contradict you.

That being said, do I get a kick out of purposely rattling your cage and getting a charge out of you? Without question...but Becky dropping in my ranking was not one of them.


"RE: My List"
Posted by michel2 on 08-25-15 at 09:08 PM

>If all these supposed “bad players”
>have a read on Vanessa,
>then that certainly doesn’t bode
>well for HER. Unlike Derrick
>last season when he had
>a REAL bunch of dummies
>buffaloed all season, I don’t
>see that the case this
>season pertaining to Vanessa and
>this cast.

I think this season has just as many dummies as last year but these are chatty dummies. It's incredible to see them outing their own alliances. That's what hurt Vanessa the most.

>Johnny is more at Vanessa's mercy
>because Liz and Austin won
>back-to-back HOHs.

Johnny simply should have worked harder on his deal with the Austwins. He thought that saying he was targeting Vanessa was enough when he should have assured them of his loyalty up to Final 4. That's what enabled Vanessa to turn the table on him.


>Austin stopped his flip-flopping when he
>finally got Vanessa to openly
>admit what a lying hypocrite
>she is. Fact of the
>matter, Austin (as well as
>most of the House) knows
>an appetizing meat shield when
>he sees one. As for
>your attempt to deal yet
>another conspiracy card...now it’s my
>turn...Michel, YOU are so predictable!
> Touche

The doubts about production rigging the game aren't mine: The ones watching the live feeds realized that the nomination ceremony was much later than usual. Production waited until Julia went to get Vanessa downstairs to tell her she needed to go to the HoH room and talk some sense into Austin. AS SOON AS Austin changed his mind, they called him to the DR and kept him there until everything was ready for the ceremony. That looked very fishy to them, especially considering Liz was still thinking that Vanessa should go up but she didn't get another chance to talk to Austin.

>It wasn’t only throwing competitions (which
>I’m not a huge fan
>of) but it’s also Johnny’s
>continued acceptance to be used
>as a pawn. That’s where
>my “going to the well
>too often” applies.

It's his whole passive game play that soured me on him. His best move would have been to work with Vanessa when she offered. An alliance of John, Steve, Becky and Vanessa would have RULED!

>Is James a horny toad simpleton
>is real life? Probably; but
>in the House he’s appeared
>to have found a niche.
>If you’re confident in your
>ability to win key competitions
>in the endgame, you need
>to do what you can
>to get there and James
>bonding with the Austwins is
>a good option for him
>to get to that point.

It's much too risky to count on winning competitions. The social game is much more reliable. James needs numbers to break up the threesome and that means more than just Meg. However, he is reluctant to even talk to John and Steve, forget about Vanessa.

>Before you ride James too hard
>for “abandoning” Becky, let’s not
>forget everyone (including Becky) abandoned
>HIM first the week prior
>when he was HOH and
>was targeting Shelli.

James was the one that turned the target to Clay after he was bullied.

>I’m not saying James/Meg is a
>bigger target than the Austwins.
>Actually I would rank Liz/Julia
>as a bigger target than
>James/Meg. I was talking about
>Austin individually when assessing him
>in my ranking making a
>case about his individual position
>in the game.

I'm not talking about your assesment of Austin but how it reflects poorly on James. If individually he is less of a target than James then that is bad for James.

>Quite honestly I’m disappointed in Becky’s
>competition scorecard. She only one
>ONE individual comp and I
>thought she would fare much
>better. I don’t care for
>the dual HOHs and BOB
>format. With that twist you
>have shared wins and way
>too many BOBs are thrown
>to credit the other pair
>with a legitimate win. Now
>if she could pull off
>a crucial win on Thursday,
>get back in the game
>and start a run, all
>that could change.

A win is a win but I see that you once more you neglect the facts that don't suit your analysis.


>When casting male HGs this season,
>I think it’s safe to
>say eye candy was not
>a determining factor. Sure, every
>guy wouldn’t mind looking like
>Clay, but Shelli took dibs
>on him the first second
>into the season. Consequently,
>this makes the flirt and/or
>skank factor limited at best.

That didn't stop Liz! Jace wasn't bad looking while John is certainly an available bachelor who even admitted his interest in Becky.

>By no means do I
>consider Becky ugly, but ranking
>all the female HGs I’d
>have her as the least
>attractive making the flirt factor
>even less of a successful
>option for her.

John disagrees with you and so does the CBS casting crew.



"RE: My List"
Posted by Aruba on 08-26-15 at 07:45 PM
>I think this season has just
>as many dummies as last
>year but these are chatty
>dummies. It's incredible to
>see them outing their own
>alliances. That's what hurt
>Vanessa the most.

Yes, there’s little loyalty with alliances this season. Perfect example is Vanessa and the Dark Moon alliance which she promptly reneged on before the next lunar sighting.


>Johnny simply should have worked harder
>on his deal with the
>Austwins. He thought that
>saying he was targeting Vanessa
>was enough when he should
>have assured them of his
>loyalty up to Final 4.
> That's what enabled Vanessa
>to turn the table on
>him.

For Johnny it’s a case of “if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it.” What worked for him before, he’ll continue doing. Certainly it does not guarantee he’ll continue to benefit from the same approach, but then again, he does not possess Kingfish’s “crystal ball.” Bottom line, the tables turned because Liz and Austin won HOHs.


>The doubts about production rigging the
>game aren't mine: The
>ones watching the live feeds
>realized that the nomination ceremony
>was much later than usual.
> Production waited until Julia
>went to get Vanessa downstairs
>to tell her she needed
>to go to the HoH
>room and talk some sense
>into Austin. AS SOON
>AS Austin changed his mind,
>they called him to the
>DR and kept him there
>until everything was ready for
>the ceremony. That looked
>very fishy to them, especially
>considering Liz was still thinking
>that Vanessa should go up
>but she didn't get another
>chance to talk to Austin.

Sure sounds like the Nostradamus School of Prophecy to me. Wait until the event occurs and THEN back into an explanation or prophecy...one that will undoubtedly suit one’s analysis. Just another reason why I’ll never get caught up in those silly feeds/spoilers.

>It's his whole passive game play
>that soured me on him.
> His best move would
>have been to work with
>Vanessa when she offered.
>An alliance of John, Steve,
>Becky and Vanessa would have
>RULED!

It’s completely asinine to criticize anyone for not putting their faith in Vanessa. You simply CAN NOT trust Vanessa. She’s way too dishonest and two-faced.


>It's much too risky to count
>on winning competitions. The
>social game is much more
>reliable. James needs numbers
>to break up the threesome
>and that means more than
>just Meg. However, he
>is reluctant to even talk
>to John and Steve, forget
>about Vanessa.

A social game is anything but reliable. According to you and the conspiracy theorists who believe Production rigs the season how can ANYTHING be reliable? The way to prevent oneself from your so-called “DR intervention” is to be immune from nominations. And you do that by proactively winning HOH.


>James was the one that turned
>the target to Clay after
>he was bullied.

Absolutely not. James knew the tide had turned and the abandonment began BEFORE the Clay/James confrontation.

>I'm not talking about your assesment
>of Austin but how it
>reflects poorly on James.
>If individually he is less
>of a target than James
>then that is bad for
>James.

You may not care about MY individual assessments—but guess what...I do. It’s not a question IF Austiin is less of a target than James...HE HAS BEEN. How many times has James been nominated? How many times has Austin been nominated? On to the next counterpoint…

>A win is a win but
>I see that you once
>more you neglect the facts
>that don't suit your analysis.

A win is NOT a win. Individual wins are not the same as team wins. With just one winner and one loser the outcome of team challenges can be impacted more by a thrown competition. It has nothing to do with “suiting an analysis.” I don’t believe Becky was casted for her looks, but more for her competitiveness and athleticism; thus I stand by my initial assessment saying I thought she would do much better than she did. There’s noooo question in my mind Becky herself would admit to the same.

>That didn't stop Liz! Jace
>wasn't bad looking while John
>is certainly an available bachelor
>who even admitted his interest
>in Becky.

Austin pursued Liz; not the other way around. Yes, Jace had flirtation potential but he was not in the game long enough. Johnny’s interest in Becky and vica-versa was just an opportunity to goof around and a matter of convenience with no romantic overtones. In the Premier Johnny flat out said because of his profession he is wary of “Gold diggers,” thus had no intentions of going into the House for a serious relationship.

>John disagrees with you and so
>does the CBS casting crew.

Even though Johnny Mac had his moments of fun with Becky grandstanding for the viewing audience, I’d be hard-pressed to believe he would rank Becky more attractive than Shelli, Liz, Julia, Jackie, or even Meg. Based on your reply, are you suggesting CBS casting thinks Becky was better looking than the other female HGs I just mentioned??


"RE: My List"
Posted by michel2 on 08-26-15 at 08:41 PM
"Yes, there’s little loyalty with alliances this season. Perfect example is Vanessa and the Dark Moon alliance which she promptly reneged on before the next lunar sighting."

I wasn't talking about loyalty, I was talking about revealing your alliances to everyone else. From the start, players made their alliances known to the others. That's dumb.

As for your comment about loyalty, it shows the difference between you and me. You shouldn't be loyal to an alliance if it doesn't suit your game. Anyway, Vanessa wasn't the only one that dropped that dumb 8 person alliance. Shelli and Clay were right there with her.

"For Johnny it’s a case of “if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it.” What worked for him before, he’ll continue doing..."

I don't think we've been watching the same show. Nothing has been working in Johnny's game. For the longest time he was Shelli and Clay's pawn/puppy dog. Now he is barely hanging on and hasn't had a real alliance to work on this whole time. His game is bordering on pathetic and if you remember my previous rankings I never rated high because of his game, only because of his character.

"It’s completely asinine to criticize anyone for not putting their faith in Vanessa. You simply CAN NOT trust Vanessa. She’s way too dishonest and two-faced."

She has shown the Austwins that she is trustworthy and, from what she told us directly, she was trying to work something with John and Becky but THEY shot her down. Looks what happened to those two!

"A social game is anything but reliable. According to you and the conspiracy theorists who believe Production rigs the season how can ANYTHING be reliable? The way to prevent oneself from your so-called “DR intervention” is to be immune from nominations. And you do that by proactively winning HOH."

Ha! Ha! Please, stop making me laugh... If production is rigging the game then they would find a competition that you would certainly fail. A good social game is always the key to the win.

As for Becky, she did perform well enough in some competitions and Johnny told Steve that he'd want to pursue things AFTER the game so he is partial to her. Personally, I think she is beautiful like the other women this season. I think that's what SeeBS wanted.


"RE: My List"
Posted by Aruba on 08-27-15 at 08:00 PM
By no means is Vanessa the only one not being true to alliances. The reason I cite Vanessa specifically for dropping the dumb 8 person alliance is because SHE was the one who orchestrated it. But that just feeds into her hypocrisy.

I think Johnny's pawn tactic worked well for him during the early stages of the game. The only real solid alliance we've had this season was the Sixth Sense and that's because they were dominating competitions. Johnny has bonded well with Shelli/Clay, Becky and Steve. Unfortunately for him the worst possible HGs won HOH causing all those mentioned he aligned with to walk out the door. Whether the other HGs want to admit it or not, I doubt anyone wants Johnny Mac in the F2 just like no one from last season wanted Donny in the F2.

Vanessa's TRYING to show trustworthiness to the Austwins because they are in power by winning comps, yet all them are seeing right through her. I could care less what a proven liar is telling anyone directly, she would have no alliance to Becky or Johnny. Becky and possibly Johnny's fate was facilitated by the Austwins recent challenge dominance; not Vanessa.

There's no way you will convince me Production will simply "find a competition" while the season is in progress. I believe all these comps have been planned, organized and even remotely assembled as much as possible BEFORE the HGs even walk into the House and the dynamics begin to take shape.

I'm not saying Becky is unattractive...but "beautiful?" Yeah...that's why Becky's phone message was to get some "beauty sleep." Like I said, ranking the women this season she's no where near the top. I'll stick to my guns and say CBS casted her to be THE "competition chick" these season. If so, her scorecard fell short. But as I stated, that could all change tonight.


"RE: My List"
Posted by michel2 on 08-27-15 at 08:51 PM
LAST EDITED ON 08-27-15 AT 08:53 PM (EST)

How exactly did Vanessa orchestrate the alliance? They were all discussing it, wanting to get rid of Austin and the twins in quick succession. It takes 8 people to make an 8 person alliance. Vanessa was the HoH and she may have come up with the name (I really don't remember) but that's about it.

I don't know what gets you so upset about Vanessa when everyone playing the game has lied. You should just admit that she is playing a better game than the others. After all, that's what her rivals are saying. Anyway, she is a poker player and poker is all about bluffing which, if you didn't know, is the same as lying without using words.


As for making people lose challenges, it's not a question of finding a competition, it's about rigging it. Take the comic book covers. If they want to help a player, then they put all of his comics in pairs, making it easy to compare each. If they want to hurt someone, they scramble his covers randomly, forcing the player to waste time finding the pairs.


They also listen to what the players say when they rehearse the competitions so they know who is better in certain areas and can angle the questions in that direction.

They can even be sneaky: Do you remember the comp that Steve won? It was True or False questions about videos shown earlier. Steve won by saying it was True that Jason was wearing a shirt with a collar. What was interesting was a comment made by someone afterwards (I think it was Meg). She said everyone had been talking about those videos and had agreed that Jason WASN'T wearing a collar. They all thought the correct answer was false, something production certainly knew. So, if Steve was trying to throw the competition then he won it despite himself!

In the slip n' slide comp, they can help one racer by putting more pebbles on his ice, giving him a cup that is just a bit bigger than the others, making his bowl slightly smaller than the others. Nothing that could be seen but enough to make a big difference.

Put simply: Everything in Reality TV can be rigged.


"RE: My List"
Posted by Aruba on 08-30-15 at 01:59 PM
Vanessa spearheaded that alliance; she was HOH. She even announced she would get a "Dark Moon" tattoo to commemorate it.

Yes, everyone lies to some extent...but with some it's all they do. What upsets me is this me, myself, and I entitlement that it's OK for ME to lie--but God help us if anyone else should lie it ends up in a Vanessa emotional meltdown crying game. So (even though I will always regard lying as a negative trait) actually it's the hypocrisy that bothers me more than the lying.

It's virtually impossible to debate conspiracy theories because you are force to disprove as potential fallacy or try to present evidence that something is not true about an event that has never proven to occur.

COULD a second gunman have killed JFK? COULD there have been alien autopsies at Rosewell, NM? COULD the Apollo 11 lunar landing been completely stages? COULD a bloodline of Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene exist? COULD all Reality TV be rigged?

You just keep doing what you do so well. LOL


"RE: My List"
Posted by michel2 on 08-30-15 at 04:04 PM
If it's hypocrisy that bothers you then Austin should be your least favorite. No one has been more two faced than him. Heck! He even says that he is playing as Austin to the others but like Judas in private.

I think the worst liar has been Jmac who threw Steve under the bus when he said it was his friend's idea to go against Vanessa when it had been his main purpose all along.

As for the conspiracies, there's a little difference between historical events and a stupid television show. For one, it is a show and it's main purpose is to get ratings so a little fix here and there is inevitable.


"Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by kingfish on 08-25-15 at 09:45 AM
LAST EDITED ON 08-25-15 AT 03:28 PM (EST)

And if that word is highlighted by your spell checker, it’s because there is no such word. At least, not until now. It arose from the pony tail bearded imagination of Austin. Good for him. We should all encourage linguistic innovation like that, even if we're pretty sure that he didn't know that it wasn't a real word. I does’em that oncetimes too. So,

So, "Welcome to the Imaginarium!"

64 days in, (What! Two months already?) and how in the world have they managed to retain any sanity? James’ practical joking has helped, I’m sure, but Vanessa is pushing the boundaries.

For my money, OTEV should have been retired after the first use. VETO spelled backwards is like a bumper sticker, whatever humor there is is only funny the first time. And it was weak the first time. It (IMO) has become a tiresome and pushy attempt at establishing a BB tradition. Hey producers, let’s go for original humor instead? Waddya say?

Then there’s Zingbot. Unless the Zingbot gets a decent joke writer, it should also be retired. Surely the producers can come up with other bits? Expect the unexpected? More like expect the boring and mundane. At least they haven’t been using Jesse anymore (please let this continue).

To the Game:

Granny Meg – (Yeah, this surprises me too. But what the heck.) It’s hard for me to form a basis for ranking the houseguests at this point, they are all vulnerable depending on who wins HoH, and that depends to a large degree on what challenge has been scheduled for the week by the producers.

But Meg would be the least vulnerable in this respect. She is the least likely of her alliance to win HoHs, thus she’s less of a target when her side is to be targeted. She should stick around for a few more weeks during which things could change and take her to the end. Where she just might win. Perhaps the returning houseguest will alter the balance of power? There is some Austwin + Vanessa resentment in the jury house.

If in the unlikely event that Meg were to win a HoH, I think she (and John and James) would be immune to Vanessa’s arguments.

For these reasons I think she’s in the best place right now, thus highest on my list.

As an aside, I have a funny feeling that the next HoH challenge will be a non-athletic challenge so as to give her a fighting chance. However, even if it’s an athletic challenge, that would make Johnny Mac and James the favorites. What about Julia you ask? Track team schmack team. She’s already been beat out by both James and John.

James – His antics have lessened the tension in the house, and for what little it’s worth, that’s caused him to be regarded more positively. Not that that’s an immunity idol or anything, but it is a positive thing for him. More importantly, unless Austin reneges on his promise, he’s safe. For now. He or Meg or Johnny Mac (or Steve if he survives) probably need the next HoH win for him to not be named next week. After two HoH wins in a row by the Austwin alliance, odds are slightly in favor of this happening, statistically. Very slightly.

Johnny Mac – He’s playing both sides but seems to lying in wait, trying to survive until he gets his chance to attack. His target will be Vanessa, which is likely to be successful because she’s a popular target for the house. He will probably survive the next eviction (although they would be smart to bounce him, I’m thinking they won’t) Steve is the more vulnerable because the Twins are morons. And Steve is an irritation and not a great gamer. It would be a big surprise for me if Liz and Julia didn't vote out the one who is less cool. It's as if they never left their high school clique.

I wish I could project his weird voice here in writing. It’s kind of a cross between a donkey bray and a trumpet blast. His comments are usually the highlight of each episode.

Vanessa – Still the best player in the game. Maybe best ever, although for my money Derrick is still number one. Her problem is that she’s recognized as such. And by all that’s holy in a rational universe that should be why she is evicted. Her BS is not as effective anymore. She’s still pretty good at reading the others, but that will only get her so far. However, each week (with her help) there’s a more compelling reason to evict someone else. But sooner or later she will go, either the other side of the house will get her, or, when they don’t need her vote anymore, her own alliance will. I think the only thing that will get her to the end is winning critical HoHs and POVs towards the end, which we are fast approaching.

She’s such a large target that maybe she should be lower on the list, but she will survive this week, she will almost certainly survive next week unless Johnny Mac wins HoH, and after that, the numbers will be so low that she could continue to power on.

The Editors are sure giving us a good look at her machinations. This week, while not moving from her position in the backyard hammock, she ran the same weepy spiel in succession past Steve (he seemed to be buying it), Liz (she also seemed to be buying it) and Johnny Mac (who definitely didn’t buy it). Almost word for word.

Does she practice in bed at night for the next day’s speeches?

By the way, it occurs to me that her alignment with the Austwin triumvirate will be a liability for her if they become too dominate, because the Austwins will turn on her first. She has been walking a tightrope for a while, so she may be able to handle this with good timing. She is perceptive enough to realize this, and so might organize an anti-Austwin uprising if there are still enough rebel troops in camp. Which, looking at the numbers, probably has to happen during the next HoH reign. (Dam, have I just discovered how Vanessa can actually win? OMG!)

Austin – I’m elevating Austin, he’s been very slow to catch on to Vanessa’s lies, but he does seem to catch on. Eventually. However a quote from the last episode is troubling in regard to his susceptibility to Vanessa’s arguments, so I can’t bring him up any higher than this on the list:

Austin – “Can I trust her (Vanessa), or is this just another one of her game moves?” (A seemingly serious quote from him per my memory. It may not be 100% word for word accurate). When he said that, I found myself wishing that someone would hit him upside the head with a heavy object. Of course it was a game move, you idiot, that's Vanessa speaking!

But he’s in a good position, and although he seems to be over thinking the pawn decision and unnecessarily ruffling feathers with his fretting, he is working thru the possibilities, recognizing that for now he needs Vanessa’s support (such as it is), and probably won’t swerve from the plan to eliminate Steve, Johnny, James, or Meg.

However, Austin does seem to be a bit slow in counting skills if he needs a few days to count up to two and three and see that Vanessa’s vote is still vital. I guess a WWE wrestler only needs to count to three? With the HoH and nominees unable to vote, he needs her vote to ensure that the vote isn’t three to two against his choice. He needs her next week too, either as a vote or as bigger target. And he is (or should be) aware that a returning house guest could mess up his and the twins’ plans, especially if that person was given a week or so of immunity from the block.

Another aside: Judas is an overacting ham. That nomination speech that was what you might expect from a WWE wrestler.

Julia – No one has her on their radar. As I write this I’m thinking that she actually could conceivably be ranked first. The only reason she’s here is her moronic observations.

Liz – She’s HoH and in the power alliance, so why is she so low? Because, as Michel points out, she is a moron. And, more importantly because she and Austin are a couple, she and Julia are a couple, and if Steve, Johnny, James, or Meg win the next HoH, she’s an automatic (IMO) nomination. Probably with Vanessa, but they might see that Liz would be their most strategic boot (saving Vanessa yet again. Sigh!). Evicting her would damage both duos. And while her eviction would create two enemies and Julia and Austin would still be teamed up, a duo is less threatening than a trio, and it would be the most effective step in depowering the power alliance. Even though Austin has a lot of influence on her decisions, Liz is the lynch pin.

Steve – I think he goes this week. He’s become a sympathetic if pathetic houseguest, but he should take a lesson from Johnny Mac, and make the best of being an uncomfortable pawn. He won’t, but he should. He should have argued more strongly to have Vanessa put up, she clearly beat him there, and he should have not used the “I don’t want to sit next to Johnny Mac, he’s my friend (or was it ally?)” argument. That was dumb, cowardly (in that he was afraid to directly debate Vanessa’s arguments to her face), and unnecessarily irritated the Austwins.

Unless he wins Veto, I think he’ll be bounced, and I think if the choice is between him and Johnny, James and Meg should remember his unfaithful (to them) nominations that resulted in Jackie going home. They have to regard him as something of an undependable wild card.

Becky – Played a smart (remembering that in this house, the smart bar is pretty low) valiant game, didn’t play along with or even pretend to play along with Vanessa’s games (which was great to see, if not all that strategic), and won challenges. But her team let her down and didn’t come thru on the next challenge. A worthy competitor, and my bet for returnee. Her declared targets are Liz and Vanessa, so let’s all vote for her to return, waddya say, kids! (Before you go all smarty pants on me, I realize that there will most likely be a BB challenge to determine who returns. It would be interesting if they decided to do a call-in vote from America, though).

(High five right back, but you may want your high five back with my ranking of Meg. But that's OK, we'll always have Paris and the memory of that high five. They are rare.)



"RE: Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by michel2 on 08-25-15 at 04:22 PM
I actually liked Austin's crazy nomination speech. It was part metaphysical, romantic, comedic and irrational. That's not easy to do and still make some sense.

Even if I didn't rank her as high, I applaud your ranking for Meg. She's quickly becoming the funniest house guest. Do you really think she could win though? If I did then I'd have her in 2nd place...


"RE: Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by kingfish on 08-25-15 at 05:53 PM
I'll admit that she's probably a wild card at best. If they voted on the basis of who played the game better (as they often do), probably not. If they vote based on who they liked, she could win.

Anybody up against Vanessa and thinking she's a goat because everyone hates her could be mistaken, she should be recognized as having played the best.

But who knows what the jury will be thinking.


"RE: Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by michel2 on 08-25-15 at 07:10 PM
A juror will always vote for the person that he likes best. The finalists are responsible for how they are perceived though. They can't pretend to be likeable just like they can't pretend to be honest. The real players that managed to earn the jury's vote despite making some moves were honest enough to own their games while showing humility. If a player can't own his moves or displays them arrogantly then he will be dragged over the coals.

Meg is well liked but her lack of game play means she'd need to be sitting next to a big villain to have a chance. She could beat Vanessa and Austin if they try to pretend that they played honestly or if they present themselves as smarter than everyone else. Austin could very well implode just like Coach in Survivor So Pathetic.

Vanessa would need to tell everyone that the game made her paranoid but not without reason since most of them were truly coming after her. She'd have to say that she regrets some of her moves but that she felt they were necessary at the time.


"RE: Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by Aruba on 08-25-15 at 07:27 PM
I won’t be taking the High Five back. I believe it was around this time last season when you sorta hopped on the Victoria bandwagon to stick a “thumb in the eyes” of the Bomb Squad, Hitmen, or any other ridiculous alliance name from last season that has understandably escaped my mind. So I was expecting the same with Meg more sooner than later. Hey, at least you get bonus points for consistency!

Interesting you think Steve would be more at risk should the noms stay the same. I hope you’re right. It would really get interesting if either Steve or Johnny Mac wins POV. Austin would then have to choose between his backdoor option Vanessa or turning on the James/Meg duo who he swore on his Judas top hat he would not target this week.

Yes, Steve definitely fell for Vanessa’s emotional train wreck spiel and you are right Johnny Mac did not. But I thought Liz saw right through her two-faced horse manure also...unless we’re talking about a different scene.


"RE: Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by Aruba on 08-25-15 at 07:50 PM
"Then there’s Zingbot. Unless the Zingbot gets a decent joke writer, it should also be retired. Surely the producers can come up with other bits? Expect the unexpected? More like expect the boring and mundane."


If it’s not too late could we send these to the Zingbot writer?

LIZ...You are becoming quite a “sex object” in the House...the more Austin wants “sex;” the more you “object.” ZING!

JULIA...It would be very hard to tell you apart from your sister if Liz was not a little hunched over...maybe that’s because she’s been carrying you on her back. ZING!

STEVE...Are you really trying to grow a beard...or did your mommie forget to pack your razor? ZING!

VANESSA...After 60 days in the House it is amazing you do not weigh 200 pounds...considering you have TWO faces to feed. ZING!

MEG...Don’t be upset if everybody calls you “Grandma”...Clay likes older women. ZING!

JAMES...It would have been fun if you bonded with Clay and Austin early in the season...you could have called your alliance...”Two and a Half Men.” ZING!


"RE: Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by michel2 on 08-25-15 at 08:40 PM
Those are great, Aruba. I bet they are better than those we will hear on the show. It's even hard to say which is my favorite. Either James or Meg.

PS. Veto took place a few days ago so if you want them to use your stuff, you'll have to bring them earlier next time.

How about I try some:

Vanessa; you show your emotions so much that I suggest you don't ever play poker. Zing!

Austin; you'd certainly beat me in a wrestling match because your stench is overpowering Zing!

Julia; I am told you were born a few minutes after Liz. Even then you were following your sister. Zing!

James; I thought that was you in the backyard but it was a shrub. I realized it wasn't you because it's playing a better game. Zing!

Liz: Is Austin showing you a new wrestling move when he puts his hand between your legs? Zing!

Meg; CBS asked me to present you with the bill for the repairs to their set after you dented it with your face. Zing!

John; You should bring some laughing gas to the DR because your jokes are getting old. Zing!

Steve; here's a mirror. Zing!


"RE: Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by Aruba on 08-26-15 at 07:47 PM
Think we should apply to CBS as part time Zing writers?

Johnny has lost some steam in the DR, but as Kingfish pointed out, he still is more amusing now than the rest of the bunch.

Although his laugh is annoying as heck.


"RE: Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by kingfish on 08-27-15 at 08:42 AM
LAST EDITED ON 08-27-15 AT 09:13 AM (EST)


Either of you would an improvement over Zingbot's joke writers. Zingbot's electronic delivery is anti-comedic also. You should drop them in the BB suggestion box.

But this time there were some better moments for me, such as when James told Zingbot in the diary room to "go Zing himself". But more notably when Zingbot managed to get the twins faces to turn red (they really are so high school), and when he exposed Austin's real life girlfriend. Which turned Liz's face a shade of black. Suddenly the girl who felt like she had the upper hand in that relationship realized that in reality, she had no hand at all. And Austin was left to stammer out an explanation.

That won't affect the game, I think, but it may tingle the mood in the house.

So he's a lousy comedian, but I approve of Zingbot as a pot stirrer. In that light, I would have liked to see him make a comment to Vanessa that gave a hint as to her profession, like;

"Hey Vanessa this season the house is like a deck of cards, you think you're the queen but you dress like the Joker!"

The other houseguests are too stupid to catch on and it probably wouldn't matter anyway, but Vanessa's possible meltdown could be fun to watch.

.


"RE: Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by Aruba on 08-27-15 at 08:10 PM
Thanks Kingfish!

Actually I'll give props to Johnny's opening line Zing..."Four out of five dentists would agree..."

I don't believe the other HGs would catch on if Zingbot did a "deck of cards" zing, but we did get to witness a Vanessa meltdown (with Steve.) How DARE Steve do such a thing...the same thing Vanessa has done about a dozen times herself this season. To reiterate my Zing it's a wonder she doesn't weigh 200 lbs. having to feed BOTH of her faces.

What I'm really getting tired of is telling the likes of Victoria, Meg, etc. how pathetically inept they are. That zing should really be directed at Production for casting those type of HGs to begin with. But what is comical is the aftermath of those zings when Victoria, Meg, etc. take exception to it. AHHHHH...Like DUHHHH!!!


"RE: Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by michel2 on 08-27-15 at 08:21 PM
I find it funny that you didn't call John a snitch for blaming Steve in the first place...

"RE: Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by Aruba on 08-30-15 at 02:03 PM
Johnny Mac did expose the five-person alliance to backdoor Vanessa, but it was LIZ who threw Steve under the bus.


"RE: Welcome to the Imaginarium!"
Posted by michel2 on 08-30-15 at 04:06 PM
No, Jmac is the one who told Vanessa that Steve engineered the idea to backdoor her. Liz actually set the record straight.