I am so sick of seeing all of these comments regarding racism on the reality shows. My basic opinion is "If you don't like it, don't watch it". It's pretty easy to understand. There is no need to complain over the same thing over and over. You are not going to change anyone's mind. Get over it and change the channel, or get a life. This doesn't mean that I don't agree, I just don't agree that this topic should be disected every time a new show comes out. And one more thing, how come CANADIANS aren't allowed on the show?????

• RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Ioway, 04:25 PM, 10-03-01
  • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Brooke, 04:39 PM, 10-03-01
    • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Ioway, 04:59 PM, 10-03-01
      • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Thrill Seeker, 05:11 PM, 10-03-01
        • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Ioway, 05:14 PM, 10-03-01
          • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Thrill Seeker, 06:03 PM, 10-03-01
    • To Brooke,AyaK, 05:12 PM, 10-03-01
      • RE: To Brooke,Ioway, 05:16 PM, 10-03-01
• RE: Why can't we all just get along?,SkyRaider, 05:21 PM, 10-03-01
• RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Outfrontgirl, 05:35 PM, 10-03-01
  • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Ioway, 06:04 PM, 10-03-01
  • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Frau Hexe, 02:19 AM, 10-04-01
    • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,sleeeve, 03:03 AM, 10-04-01
      • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Frau Hexe, 04:14 AM, 10-04-01
        • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,PepeLePew13, 07:42 AM, 10-04-01
          • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Brooke, 09:31 AM, 10-04-01
            • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Drive My Car, 12:23 PM, 10-04-01
              • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Thrill Seeker, 05:20 PM, 10-04-01
• RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Drive My Car, 05:22 PM, 10-04-01
  • RE: Why can't we all just get along?,Frau Hexe, 02:32 AM, 10-05-01

Ya know, I just can't get a break. I lined up along with all the other guys to sign up for a crack at the show. People gave me some looks, but hey, I'm okay with that. People like me get used to that sort of thing. See, I was born without arms or legs, and a midget on top of that. Well, I had one arm, before the fire, and it melted off me like a candle, along with my nose. I have a little cart pulled by my Rottie Bulrush. But hey, I get by. I'm game. Ya gotta play the hand life deals ya. So I signed up. Actually they inked Bulrush's foot and he stamped my sig for me. I was really expecting that call. They were so nice. Well, I waited by that phone like a lovesick teenybopper. No calls. Well, I'm not sore. Giddyap, Bulrush.

Right! Weren't you the dude on the skateboard in the movie, Kids?

Yeah! Hey you saw me? Wanna autograph? I can get Bulrush's pawprint. There was this one guy they assigned to feed me cocoa pebbles during breaks.. had a head like Fred Flintstone.. real nice fella.

I'm glad to see you have such a good attitude Ioway.
At least you didn't end up with a giant Fred Flinstone head.
That would really put you at a disadvantage in life.
I don't have any bigotries in life except a true dislike of guys with giant Fred Flinstone heads. I think we should ship them all back to Bedrock.

Actually I have more of a Barney head... not Barney Rubble, Barney the Dinosaur (remember I have no nose and widely spaced eyes).. I kinda look like Brandy/Moesha. Uh oh.. Bulrush is getting that look in his eyes again..

>Actually I have more of a
>Barney head... not Barney Rubble,
>Barney the Dinosaur (remember I
>have no nose and widely
>spaced eyes).

LOL@Ioway
I still think you are probably luckier to look like Barney the Dinosaur than to look like a guy with a giant Fred Flinstone head. At least Barney can dance and sing.

LAST EDITED ON 10-03-01 AT 05:17 PM (EST)

Since I never said it earlier, Brooke, welcome to the boards! Speaking for myself, I hope that you stay with us in the various forums of RealityTVWorld.com longer than just for the remaining journey of Love Cruise....

Edited to add that I agree with cgal. Maybe my fellow Yanks might learn where Manitoba and the other prairie provinces are if there were a person from, say, Winnipeg on one of these shows -- which is, of course, the reason that Canadians AREN'T included -- because, for example, hardly anyone from the States associates a "riding" with anything other than a horse race!

Yeah, hi Brooke, glad to have you here You can give me a roll anytime. A roll down the hill on my skateboard.. I'll bring the cocoa pebbles

<<And one more thing, how come CANADIANS aren't allowed on the show?????>>

Canadians aren't allowed on the show because the shows, as we all know, are controlled by the Amish!

LAST EDITED ON 10-03-01 AT 06:29 PM (EST)

I have been hesitant to say anything on these race-related threads, but I have had a reaction and may as well out with it. I doubt we will change anything with our messages, but people post all sorts of topics on these boards without complaint. Yet without exception anyone who tries to raise the question of what's going on with minority casting on these shows gets jumped on for asking.

I read Brooke's posts and I agree with Survivorchick that she kept her temper and logic admirably, whereas most of us regulars (and I'm including my good friends here and not bashing people, just observing) got very defensive. What are we defensive of? That we watch and get addicted to these shows and that might reflect badly on us if we admit there's a race factor? No one's asking us to lobby the casting directors for fairness and equality to show we're not prejudiced; it's just a topic.

Anyone who's ever been the only member of their ethnicity in a closed society is likely to feel isolated. Why do we have such a hard time saying, yeah, I bet that would be weird to be the one black person in the house? Would anyone here enjoy that position? Doubtful. Anyway, we bash these producers from A to Z but when race comes up we bash the poster.

On a non-TV note: I am Caucasian but I have experienced a little taste of what it's like to receive racial prejudice. I have spent time in communities in New Mexico where Anglo is a hostile term, and in Hawaii, where I have been a Howlie. Not fun. In neither of those situations did it matter that I wanted to get along and disregard race. I was shown that my race mattered and some people weren't interested in going past that to find out who I was. I learned I couldn't go to certain beaches or hot springs without risking angry rape or assault for intruding on a local community. Color bars are real for many, many people.

On the other side, I have lived in communities where I was not only of the majority ethnicity, but there were only one or two black people in the area. One woman in that position was one of my four best friends, and for years I gave her no validation when she would complain that other people were ostracizing her. I, the white liberal, said "oh no, we're all above that here; I'm sure no-one's prejudiced against you."

Well, duh, I was clueless as to what she went through, but I was in denial. She was a talented actress who got pushed out of the local stage company and on and on. I couldn't change her world, but I could have said, "yes, it's a drag you have to experience this animosity due to your race, and no, you're not paranoid. It is real." I would have been a better friend to open my eyes.

As to our sense of whether minorities are under-represented, I don't think statistics spread across the population are a good way to go. We all know that certain areas have large multi-ethnic populations while others are mostly white. The 2% community is not the way it plays out in the real world.

When you move out of a white-dominated area where it seems normal to not see many people of color--and into an urban area such as my current home--San Francisco area, your perception of the norm changes. Let's face it, people on this board live in a broad spectrum of communities. To many it seems normal to have the contestants mostly white--and there's nothing wrong with that.

Where I live, when I go out I am part of a big mix--Hispanic, Jewish, Asians from various cultures, Arabs, black (not just African-American), Native American, Filipino, Hindus, Sikhs--not to mention all the mixed-race people. I am really not a majority or a minority as a Caucasian. And you know what? I LOVE IT! And we get along well and interact with much less racial tension than there used to be. I think it's because no one race has all the power any more--everyone gets a piece of the action.

I am not trying to say the problems aren't still real, but that I do enjoy the diversity. A lot of Caucasians are sick of having diversity shoved down their throats, and they have a point as well. Affirmative action backfired on many levels. Yet when diversity happens on its own, not due to quotas, many people feel culturally enriched.

As to Reality TV? Does it do a good job of representing my cultural world? No. Should it try and do better? I don't know about Should and "better" is pretty subjective. It's only TV game show world, but I personally would enjoy a multi-ethnic cast that was not predominantly white, and I would watch it--in case anyone reading this is in a postion to influence casting.

Brooke, I understand why you backed away from applying. I think you sound like a nice person and I see no need to bash you as a loser just because you were a realist about what you'd be up against.

Anytime we get defensive and hostile when a topic gets raised, we might want to take a look at why this pushes our buttons so much before we kill the messenger. Probably not because it's just stoopid and repetitive but because we feel attacked for some reason... and we might ask ourselves why we feel that way.

Edit: To SB (Webby): I do not think you are racist in any way, shape, or form. You are in kind of a special position here as the host of this forum, and you have something real to defend, the openmindedness of your site. Despite the fact that I am saying Brooke has a good point, I most definitely don't think you should come under attack here. You are the best.

Very cool and aware post. I admit I get silly and weird in some of my posts, but this deserves a serious look. I lived in New Mexico for three years and often visit Hawaii so I can support your statements.

I am of mixed race but look "white". In fact I look SO white, I look like a Aryan racist. So therefore I get all these whites who come up to me to make remarks about "those people" (Hint: The term "you people" is a red flag). My dad is mixed American Indian, black etc etc and my mom is white.

Now my gf is Native Hawaiian. Because of our "looks" people react to us as mixed "white-colored" relationship. In reality we probably have 20 ethnicities between us! Everything but Australian Aborigine!

My looks mark me as "white" so although my identity/cultural mode is Native, I always have to "prove myself" to people of darker skin. And whites think I am "like them" and are confused when i reject their racism (which they only show to others they think to be "bubbas".. like me).

All I know is that racism is real, and if you are a person of color, it's something you deal with everyday. If you are white, you can blow it off as bs etc etc. And I know I have been in the same store alone, and was never followed, as I was when I went in that same store with my dark girlfriend.

Ioway

OFG:
As always, a wise and elloquent post. You make some really important points here. I'm always concerned when people are so jumpy when race issues come up. In our culture, we need to get used to talking about race, about non-dominant sub-cultures in general. Unless we do, issues of discrimination are only going to persist.

I personally have a difficult time ignoring the fact that, for example, on S1, S2, and S3 there have been "token" African-Americans--always one male and one female, and always placed on different tribes. And surprise, surprise, on LC we encounter the same issue--one male and one female of African-American ethnicity. This disturbs me, even enrages me at times. I think anyone belonging to a non-dominant group can attest to this, however, whether that group be race, gender, sexual-orientation, class, educational status, and so on. When one social group is represented far more than any other, it's bound to be disturbing.

Although mainstream television doesn't have a terrific track record in portraying non-dominant groups accurately, I think it's time it started to happen. Of course, this will mean talking about it too--especially in forums such as this--and making a few people uncomfortable in the process, but forever the optimist, I think it's worth it.

Climbing off my soap box now...

Frau Hexe

LAST EDITED ON 10-04-01 AT 03:05 AM (EST)

>S1, S2, and
>S3 there have been "token"
>African-Americans--always one male and one
>female, and always placed on
>different tribes

For the record:

S1: Ramona and Gervase... both on Pagong.
S2: Nick and Alicia... both on Kucha
S3: Clarence on Boran, Linda on Samburu

I guess MB realized that race had nothing to do with alliances, and tried something different this time...

(Please note that Alicia was in what was probably the strongest alliance on the show, with Jeff... and the two of them would have had a real shot at the finals, if Mike hadn't fallen asleep.)

I will not comment on the "tokenism" of the contestants, except to say... what racial breakdown would be appropriate??? (Curious, because until people started accusing MB of only casting lazy black guys, last season, I hadn't noticed the racial breakdown of the show at all... or, more specifically hadn't considered it important.)

Oh my--what a lazy poster I am at 1:00 in the morning. Sorry about that. Thanks sleeeve for pointing out my errors. Those aside, MB still seems pretty formulaic simply in that each season, there's one African-American male and one African-American female. I'm not suggesting any remedies here, just something less predictable. Hell, why not mix it up a bit and have two black females and one black male. How about three black males and no black females. Do you see what I'm saying here?

I'm also not questioning the roles of these people in the tribes--Alicia had incredible leadership skills--but I am questioning why MB seems to have these two slots mapped out each season. It makes it appear as though he's begrudgingly fulfilling some sort of quota.

Frau Hexe

The plain fact is that there is never a solution that will completely satisfy everyone at all times. One group will always feel slighted or another group will feel too conspicious or yadda yadda yadda. Diversity in certain areas work because there is enough of a mix such that people grow up being surrounded and they think it's ok. Toronto is one of the most culturally-diverse cities in the world and our kids don't even notice colour because right from kindergarten they're exposed on a daily level to a wide variety of races that it becomes 'normal' to them. On the other hand, you might have someone from the wheat fields in a small town in Saskatchewan who has had almost no exposure whatsoever to mixes of races (often, the only one they're exposed to is the Native population). That might be fine for where you live, whether there is racial diversity or not, but with TV it can become a problem because we are all watching the same programs. You'll have people in one part of the country saying "Too Diverse!" and in another part of the country saying "Not Enough Diversity!" You simply cannot please all people at the same time.

As a person with a lack of hearing, I have gone through times of discrimination more than the average person might realize. I have been a quota hiring at one time (probably more) and I've had times where I had to work harder to make myself equal to others while other times I didn't have to work at all to get something that the average person wouldn't get.

The fact is... if I say that I want to be treated as equal and point out that others get promoted or an opportunity, I come across as a bitter person. If I say that it's not worth the hassle to get what I 'deserve' then I get labelled as lazy and setting my peers back. If I fight to get what I should in order to be on an equal footing to others, I get labelled as a 'militant' advocate.

When I worked at one of the world's largest companies (a company that owns the rival of CBS's Survivor), I was happy working at a job for two years until I found out the company won a diversity award from some organization and they used me as a specific example of the type of people they hired. I asked my supervisor if I was hired because of my skills (as I was led to believe) or because I satisfied a government-mandated 'quota'. I was told that I was hired because they needed to fill a quota, but "hey it's ok since I got a job out of it! What's the problem, huh?" To make a long story short, I didn't take to that too well as I've always prided myself on being accepted for my skills and personality instead of 'that other thing' and the company started labelling me as a troublemaker simply for speaking my mind and the relationship within the company deteriorated from then on -- all because I asked them to look at me only for my skills and what I could do, not because of a quota. The company simply asked me to sit there in a little cubicle like a good little boy and just be quiet and stay out of the way. After I found out I was being treated as a minority quota, the boss gave me 4 raises in the next year and finally a 6-month severance package with full benefits when I was laid-off (in other words, "take the money and just go, please don't sue us").

Since then, I have found that I have been happier at the 3 jobs I've had since then... all at much smaller companies where there are more 'real' people and they can't do things like hide quotas in a corner cubicle and have to hire based on real skills.

I've learned that it doesn't matter what you do, people will take it the wrong way... so the best thing to do is to make yourself as inconspicious as possible and let your skills speak for yourself.

Anyway... I've gotten waaaaay off track here... my point in all this is that you're never going to please everyone at all times, and with the majority of TV shows you're never going to get a fair representation of racial mixes. If Love Cruise had 96 singles instead of 16, then you might have a shot at getting a variety of races to blend together... but there's only 16 so it's nearly impossible to have a completely fair show. So, the executives say "let's put in a black male and a black female" because in their eyes, it's better than having NO blacks.

"Permit me to introduce myself. I am Pepe Le Pew, your lover."

*Anyway... I've gotten waaaaay off track here... my point in all this is that you're never going to please everyone at all times*

I don't think you have. My question is how do we find a happy medium? No we're not going to please everyone all the time, but that is usually because people are closed minded.

Thanks for the welcome, I'm here to stay!!
ARSG (Another Reality Show Groupie)

Nice to have you Brooke.

Ioway, PepeLePew, and Brooke,
This has been a good discussion for everyone to think about.
I think everyone is discriminated against in one way or another, whether it is based on race, age, sex, weight, looks, or some other factor that we can't control. It's too bad it does but I think this has been good for everyone to try to accept that discrimination still does exist whether we want to believe it or not.
I could tell a sad story about my blacker-than-black friend Gary, but I don't think it needs to be told now.

When are Reality shows going to have Fat Housewives from Texas on them?

Now that's what I want to know. It's about time someone addressed the underrepresentation of the plus-sized Texan domestic engineer on these shows.

Frau Hexe