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"BB #14 Finale Night."
Posted by Estee on 09-19-12 at 06:49 PM
Turkey.

Overdone.

Inedible.

Dumped.

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"Silver Platter"
Posted by Round Robin on 09-20-12 at 01:13 AM
As I previously said in another thread, Danielle handed Ian the game on a silver platter when she was stupid enough to use the veto on Dan. She had to know if she had a brain in her head that Ian was NOT going to fail to win the final HOH, she had to know a pi$$ed off jury stood a good chance of being bitter enough to vote against Dan, and she had to know Ian was smart enough to figure that out and toss her before the final vote. And still she did what she did. There's just no accounting for human idiocy.
"RE: Silver Platter"
Posted by Estee on 09-20-12 at 06:22 AM
"Danielle" and "brain" in the same sentence just isn't going to work out for anyone. Especially Danielle. (One of the more solid potential bets: I don't think she's going into the full media rotation. The rats will want to save her cries of discovered agony for when she's out of earshot.) Dan backstabbed her by proxy -- that last HoH was Yet Another Dan Throw -- and she stayed loyal to him through the stupid end.

Ultimately, Dan took too much of the villain role for the inevitable bitter jury. It was like getting S5 Brian back with a side dose of religious hypocrisy. Final Two alliances for all, swore on the somehow-not-smoking Bible. Dan sacrificed every moral he publicly claimed to believe in on the false altar of the key wheel: forget what he had decided to do in order to reach the finals, just respect that he got there and vote for him. And for a jury which had more than enough time to compare notes? No. With Dan as their local incarnation of evil, anyone sitting next to him looked that much better. A thousand manipulations + miles of mist = goat horns.

I do wonder what's going to happen when he gets back to his school. We've had reality show contestants lose their employment over series actions before this, and all those oaths...

"RE: Silver Platter"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-20-12 at 08:43 AM
But Dan's going to confession and getting a clean slate ...

Seriously, I think Dan was robbed. I liked that Janelle told them he should win, and that Will told them they should take responsibility for being duped.
Ian is a good winner though, much better than either Danielle or Shane (at least to me). It's nice to see a nerd attain his lifelong dream. And his end speech was really good.

I would have liked to see Britney or Dan get the 25K, not Frank. I didn't find Frank as entertaining as Grodner clearly did.

"RE: Silver Platter"
Posted by samboohoo on 09-20-12 at 09:16 AM
Without having watched yet, I agree with you. Especially about what Will said.

I would rather see Dan get the $25k over Frank, not really over Britney. She had her usual funny moments this season, but I don't really think she did much of anything else.

I liked Frank. I don't really have a problem with him getting the money over anyone else other than Dan. There was one week he really lucked out of being booted, which was the week the coaches entered the game, voiding the vote. He was a target from Day 1, and I think he really did have to work harder than pretty much anyone else. But he was duped. And he was stupid enough to be duped. I still liked him.


Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie


"RE: Silver Platter"
Posted by vennui on 09-20-12 at 10:50 AM
I really think dan lost it in his final speech. I couldn't win, hoh , or vetoes, or anything so I duped people. It's rong but I will go to confession and be forgiven.

Ian cheated because he has the ability to win and has a photographic memory.

Bah !!! Skill and talent vs deception
I choose the former.

"Disagree."
Posted by newsomewayne on 09-20-12 at 11:39 AM
I think Dan lost when he allowed all the jury members to be sent to the same house. Especially one equipped with demisting a/c filters and strong showers to rinse what was left covering their eyes.
"RE: Disagree."
Posted by Round Robin on 09-20-12 at 02:34 PM
Yeah, Wayne, if Dan had a brain in his head he should have known the jurors would compare notes and his web of lies and deceit would be unraveled out of his presence where he could not argue for himself. I think Dan was going to lose the final if he was in it no matter who was in there with him. People can stand a certain amount of lying and deceit in a reality game, but you can't rub their noses in it, and Dan made that mistake.
"Disagree on the disagreement."
Posted by michel on 09-20-12 at 05:30 PM
It was clear from their talk that Britney and Jenn were ready to vote for Dan but they both voted for Ian because of his superior answers. Dan should have used more time to explain that he had to do what he did. He was gone if he hadn't duped Frank and Jenn so it was absolutely necessary to lie to them. Getting both Ian and Danielle to throw part 1 of final HoH was a marvelous move that the jury didn't know. It would have given him the side benefit of showing Ian's naiveté. That's another thing Dan could have used, saying Ian saved himself a few times not even knowing he was out the door.

Two votes aren't enough to win but he was in a position to turn only 1 juror in his favor. Neither Joe or Shane were too fond of Ian so they could possibly have voted for Dan.

I was really surprised to see Ashley so enamored with Ian. Maybe $500K is her price but Ian booted her so I was expecting some bitterness there.

I would have preferred to see Dan win because he mystified them all but Ian makes for a fun winner.

"RE: Disagree on the disagreement."
Posted by Estee on 09-20-12 at 05:49 PM
I would have preferred to see Dan win because he mistified them all

Fixed that for you.

"RE: Disagree on the disagreement."
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-20-12 at 06:29 PM
I agree that Dan's speech was lacking, and as michel said, Jenn and Britney were his to lose. He should have spoken at a slower pace if he wanted to reach anyone, and more sincerely. His knack for finding the right words and tone fled when he needed it most. He needed the Dan's Funeral Dan, not Diary Room Dan.

In any case, Joe, Frank, Shane were going to vote on a "morality" basis, and Ashley is a cipher, but Dan was never too close to her, and Dan did start thinking jury votes too late. That was because he was busy fighting not to get evicted. So I just don't think he had a shot at the 4 votes.

I think the "my back was against the wall" approach at each turn, explaining each backstab (if they would give him time) would have been better than "I chose to be ruthless as a strategy."

I think Dan made a big error when he evicted Shane. Shane was no cinch for the final HOH. Ian was more of a threat. Dan should have let the veto go unused as Shane would have kept him. Ian expected to be evicted by Shane and would have then voted for Dan to win, probably even lobbied for him with the jury, whereas Shane affected the jury with his bitterness.

When it gets to F4, each player is dangerous to go to F3 with in some aspect, so Dan should have let his fears about Shane go and taken the jury points by keeping his hands clean on the last person who goes to the jury who has time to talk to them.

Had the F3 come down to Dan evicting Shane and keeping Danielle, Shane would have understood that Dan coached Danielle.

Danielle would have been likely to keep Dan because Shane was a threat and no enemies.

Shane would have been likely to keep Dan and honor his F2 deal, and may well have felt that Danielle had some sort of sweetheart who wins challenges argument.

But really, Dan could most likely have won the final HOH, as none of the segments favored Shane, whereas they all favored Ian and you just don't let someone with an eidetic memory into the final comp if you can help it.

Speaking of which, instead of saying he is not a good competitor, Dan should have taken the Dr. Will approach and admitted to throwing challenges because as a coach he needed to stay UTR. And yet he survived, an amazing feat of salesmanship.

Almost all those people were lying to others and felt fine about it, so the morality argument was stupid. Although history of Survivor shows us that swearing on important people and books is a bad tactic. (Twila ... ) That too was a mistake. There are other ways to con people without swearing on the Bible, your wife, your child.

Re America's Favorite:
I don't dislike Frank, and I am sure we will see him on the next All Stars or as a returnee. I was just not enamored with him. The America's vote is for "favorite" house guest rather than Player of the Season as with Survivor, so I would give it to someone I enjoyed watching. I enjoy well crafted sarcasm and found Frank's homespun humor not that witty. Dan, Britney, Ian were my faves, but I also like to vote for someone who is not in the hunt for the prize money.

Because it is "favorite" -- there is certainly no right or wrong choice as everyone has their own for whatever reason, and I am not surprised Frank won. But honestly I think those votes are rigged and it was more that Grodner wanted to be able to resuscitate Frank with "America's Favorite" tagged to him. Britney has had her two shots and Dan too, so Frank was the obvious choice to anoint with America's support.

"RE: Disagree on the disagreement."
Posted by michel on 09-20-12 at 07:43 PM
I agree with you, especially regarding: "I think Dan made a big error when he evicted Shane." It wasn't Danielle's error, it was his.

I think Dan was sure he'd get Ian to throw the final HoH competition in its entirety, not just phase 1. That way, he'd face Danielle in the end. Easier to win a challenge when you're the only one playing. Dan believed his own mist.

"RE: Disagree on the disagreement."
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-21-12 at 02:20 PM
>>> I think Dan was sure he'd get Ian to throw the final HoH competition in its entirety, not just phase 1.

michel, that's a great point for why he kept Ian. He misjudged Ian and his own mist, and he feared Shane too much. Too bad, he blew it when he turned on Shane.

"RE: Silver Platter"
Posted by LeftPinky on 09-20-12 at 06:01 PM
I was sad that Ian won - I enjoyed Ian in the game, but Dan had moments that no one could believe that he'd escape from... Who has their own funeral and walks away? If Hollywood had completely scripted this season, no one could have believed that he was still standing at the F2.

Frank for $25K? Eh! America must have voted figuring that Dan would win.

Anyway, it was an entertaining summer -

"RE: BB #14 Finale Night."
Posted by The Cake on 09-21-12 at 09:52 AM
I thought this was absolutely ridiculous. Dan should have totally won. I can't stand it when the jury is bitter because they got played. I hope when they go home and actually watch this season they realize that he deserved to win. Everyone that was not on the jury that played this season all said the same thing.
On a side note, on Russell's first season in Survivor he also deserved to win (another jury that I can't stand)He went into the merge without numbers 8 to 5 and they still managed to self-destruct themselves but of course in their eyes it was all Russells fault.

"RE: BB #14 Finale Night."
Posted by michel on 09-21-12 at 05:16 PM
First of all, the jury is always right.

I'd have preferred to see Dan win but his jury performance was atrocious and he gravely miscaculated when he went needlessly after Shane.

No one else but the jury can give meaning to a social game such as Survivor or Big Brother. If they are bitter then it's the finalist's fault for not giving them what they needed. ALWAYS.

An alliance is a contract with only one stipulation: If you screw me, I will screw you. Dan absolutely needed to make a F2 deal with Frank to save himself but that cost him a vote. One vote, not 4. He could have gotten the necessary votes elsewhere.

That being said, Russell deserved it much less than Dan for the simple reason that Russell mistreated the people he eliminated, laughing in their face as they left and believing he was the greatest of all time. At least Dan had the humility to realize that Frank, Shane and Ian could beat him.

"RE: BB #14 Finale Night."
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-24-12 at 00:11 AM
I can see saying the jury is always right, but I don't always feel that way.

The jury always has the power to decide, but I don't think they always make the right choice in objective terms. The jury's decision is final to those in the game, but to those observing the jury, the jury may be viewed as petty, bitter, punishing or even flaky or delusional in its components.

I say this because the idea of a jury in the United States justice system (as this is US version of the game) is an impartial body that puts self interest aside and judges on the facts before it (and the rules).

Because many of us have this concept of a jury, some of us don't admire jurors who are too caught up in personal considerations to admire good game play, and don't think they are "right." In the Justice system we have Appeals in the case of bad jury decisions. In Reality TV we have none, but you may get a second or third shot at a different outcome.

Re the personal aspect of backstabbing:
On the Talk, Dan said something like (this is a paraphrase from memory), Julie, if I play Monopoly with you, I'm always going to try to get you to sell Park Place to me for $20, and I play all games that way. At the end of the game, you put the pieces away and it's over, no hard feelings.