>Wow. just wow.
>
>Brainwashing? So any fan of
>anyone is just a brainwashed
>sheep? So the only
>free thinkers are the trolls
>that hate everyone?
>
>I don't know if Rachel has
>the goods to brainwash people,
>even if she has them
>in an isolated compound with
>no access to anyone who
>isn't spouting Rachelisms.

I should return the "wow" because I clearly added the "or brainwashed" to your possibilities so I wasn't talking about everyone. However, considering that the premise of the MVP was to vote for the "Best player of the week" there is obviously a large contingent of Rachel's fantards that voted for Elyssa blindly, not even considering that she is a terrible player.

PS. The fact that many voted for Elyssa as MVP when they were being asked to vote for a nominee also clearly showed that there were many brainwashed (or brain dead) voters.

LAST EDITED ON 07-30-13 AT 09:59 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 07-30-13 AT 09:58 PM (EST)

Since when has America ever done as told and voted for the best of anything on any show?

It is a popularity contest and Elissa had an advantage in that her sister has fans.

Every "America votes" is a popularity contest, not a vote for the best, just the favorite.

ETA: I do think some of Rachel's fans (could be from the Amazing Race) were voting based on tweet shout outs and may not have really paid attention to show to know the "vote for Elissa again" campaign was misplaced.

ETAA: And it wouldn't be the first time someone with fans from an entirely different show got people who don't watch the current show to vote for them when they are not at all what should be rewarded on a show as "good".

>Since when has America ever done
>as told and voted for
>the best of anything on
>any show?
>It is a popularity contest and
>Elissa had an advantage in
>that her sister has fans.

Obviously and CBS was counting on it. One could say that the twist was rigged for Elyssa, knowing that there were many sheep following Rachel's campaign.

I could understand Elyssa winning the first week but 3 in a row? There are some interesting characters this season (Helen, Andy...) that should have gained more popularity after week 1. Call them brainwashed, brain dead, fantards, whatever, there has to be a few of them voting for Elyssa.

>Every "America votes" is a popularity
>contest, not a vote for
>the best, just the favorite.

Yes, even the presidential one. Maybe there should be an Electoral College to sort out these votes!

>ETAA: And it wouldn't be the
>first time someone with fans
>from an entirely different show
>got people who don't watch
>the current show to vote
>for them when they are
>not at all what should
>be rewarded on a show
>as "good".

Isn't it dumb to vote for someone without any idea about the issues? Shouldn't one take time to get informed before voting? If one blindly gives a vote away then isn't one acting as if having been brainwashed?

Well if America voted based on being informed I think from political elections on down we'd see much different results.

Reality TV show voting has always been, in every case, a popularity contest.

And I agree it wasn't fair to have only one hamster with a built in voting block going into the house.

Once they won a MVP her voters probably kept voting because the had evidence they could win. Just like the can't dance person on DWTS with the built in fan base stays on for way too long. They have people voting for non-dance reasons, and once they save them once, they feel empowered to prove they can do it again.

And it isn't like BB has to be fair, or has ever been fair, heck, even the regulators say it doesn't have to be.

Popularity, fairness...I think we are getting off track here. I've never said that it wasn't a popularity contest or that BB was fair.

I said that some of the people that voted for Elyssa had done so simply because they did what Rachel wanted. I called it brainwashing and your explanations don't make those voters look smarter. Voting for someone that can't dance on a dance show? Thankfully, I don't watch that crap. Now, if I could find the cure for BB...

If you find that BB cure...

Well it just seemed you didn't understand why someone could vote because they were a fan rather than because of whatever non-popularity based criteria the production staff invents.

At least SYTYCD generally only has good dancers on it and sells its winner as America's Favorite Dancer.

I just think brainwashing implies the person asking for the votes has more control over the minions than they really do. Most of the minions are a bit too fickle to be suffering from real brainwashing and any avoidance of anyone with a different viewpoint is voluntary.

Now that you are a rabid fantarding minion doesn't imply intelligence, but it doesn't mean the source of the irrational devotion is deliberately forcing the minions to be in their rabid fantarding groupie group rather than someone else's rabid fantarding groupie group.

>Well it just seemed you didn't
>understand why someone could vote
>because they were a fan
>rather than because of whatever
>non-popularity based criteria the production
>staff invents.

Now that's funny!

>I just think brainwashing implies the
>person asking for the votes
>has more control over the
>minions than they really do.
> Most of the minions
>are a bit too fickle
>to be suffering from real
>brainwashing and any avoidance of
>anyone with a different viewpoint
>is voluntary.

You obviously have a more optimistic opinion of the average viewer than I do. I know you are busy recapping the show for the ECST but do you ever read the tweets that CBS posts during the show? It shows the intellectual level of those viewers that waste time voting for MVP, nominees and have-not menus.

Why do these hamsters even have fans? I mean, I can understand someone finding Rachel amusing, even finding her good looking but going as far as becoming a fan? I guess it's a symptom of this messed up society where people like Bieber, Minaj and Kardashian are huge stars.

There are a lot of idiots in the masses that feed on pop culture as if it was the nec plus ultra. It doesn't take much to convince idiots to do what you want them to do.

>Now that you are a rabid
>fantarding minion doesn't imply intelligence,
>but it doesn't mean the
>source of the irrational devotion
>is deliberately forcing the minions
>to be in their rabid
>fantarding groupie group rather than
>someone else's rabid fantarding groupie
>group.

Really? Rachel would freak out if her minions tweeted that they wanted Elissa out of the house. I'm sure she told her fans: "If you like me, vote for Elissa."

Yes, but Rachel did not create the fans by locking them in her basement or making them turn the tv off if any other hamster was on it. She might hate on someone that tweets they can't stand her sister, but really, what is she doing to people to enforce compliance? Real brainwashing takes a lot of hard work I don't think Rachel would do.

You can say people are stupid for being a rabid fan of any reality star, but people still get to chose who they use their stupidity on.

Now sometimes the production will edit someone to help them get more fans, or be more hated than their raw footage would cause. (why often the feedsters have different preferences than those that just watch the edited shows).

Of course if the ratings would indicate that a lot more people would tune in to watch sane, normal people making rational, reasoned decisions...

>Of course if the ratings would
>indicate that a lot more
>people would tune in to
>watch sane, normal people making
>rational, reasoned decisions...

Actually, they do. The ratings for TAR are better but even more people watch sports where mostly sane people make rational, reasoned decisions...and dumb ones also.

"I'd think that, with Elyssa winning MVP for the first three weeks, it's pretty obvious that the voters are mostly Rachel fans."

Elissa won MVP the first two weeks...the third week she was runner-up to be nominated.

I NEVER questioned the fact Rachel's fans have a cohesive voting block. That's why she won MVP the first two weeks. Although IMO I doubt strongly that MOST of the votes are from Rachel's posse. I'm still hanging on to my "bell-curve" theory that a fair amount of voters dislike her as well as evident with her week three nomination.

Because of the fan base block I'd be surprised if she ever finished FIRST in any America's MVP vote for nomination, but with the Rachel haters out there I could see her finishing second or third every week for the 3rd nominee voting.

Whoops...correction. MVP first three weeks and runner-up for nominee in week four. Either way, still supports my "bell-curve" theory.

You don't need a "bell-curve" theory, you only have to go to Sucks to see that every player has both a love and a hate thread with hundreds of entries in each, most consisting of fans telling haters to drop dead and vice versa!!!!

Rachel had fans and haters also but there were many comments on CBS.com from voters who realized too late that they had made a mistake, thinking they were voting for MVP when they voted that fourth week.

Elyssa is a terrible player so she wouldn't have gotten the MVP once if she wasn't Rachel's sister. However, she would get some votes for nominee even if she was unknown.

Understand I'm not saying a HG has NO ONE who likes them or NO ONE who dislikes them. What the "bell-curve" theory suggests is a decent amount of fans who like them, a decent amount of BB fans who hate them, and VERY few in between. This season Elissa supports this theory more so than any other hamster in the house IMO. And yes, being Rachel's sister contributes to the high numbers on both sides.

"every player has both a love and a hate thread with hundreds of entries in each..."

Are you insinuating that the "hundreds" constitutes a fairly equal number of both love and hate for EVERY player? If not, than I have NO idea why you bring it up to respond to my post because I never indicated that in my post(s) and as mentioned above that's NOT what the bell-curve theory suggests.

There's NOOOOO way you will convince me (or most any viewer) that Aaryn lovers (if they even exist) mirrors the number of Aaryn haters. I could say the same for GM. No bell-curve with these HGs.

I also feel there's several "flatliners" as of week 4. Jessie and Andy would definitely be flatliners. No bell-curve with these HGs. I'd even say before Judd won HOH, he'd be a flatliner too.

Conversely, I believe Helen is being shown as "America's Darling" thus far and no way I would believe the number of haters are remotely close to the number of lovers. No bell-curve here either.

"Elyssa is a terrible player so she wouldn't have gotten the MVP once if she wasn't Rachel's sister."

I agree; no debate here.

"However, she would get some votes for nominee even if she was unknown.

Not sure what you mean by "some votes." I suspect everyone's getting "some" votes. But make not mistake about it, the overwhelming number of votes she got to be week 4 nominee was because BB fans dislike Rachel; not because Elissa's a "terrible player." Personally I don't think being a great or terrible player factors into the criteria most fans are using to vote.

Aaryn and GM were in the top three because they are racist bigots, not because of any gameplay (or lack thereof.)

Then, instead of creating a "theory" why not simply say that some characters are polarizing while others are boring?

"...why not simply say that some characters are polarizing while others are boring?"

Because A) it's not that "simple," and B) it's not an either/or proposition.

Yes there are "boring" HGs. Jessie is boring as heck. If Elissa was not Rachel's sister she's be boring too (except when doing her Yoga of course.)

Jeremy was definitely polarizing. Historically other characters were polarizing also ( i.e. ED, Jase, and Lydia & Ronnie the Rat from BB11 to name a few.)

But SO many HGs (past and present) do not fall into either category. It's not that cut and dry.

Cases in point:

I think Helen is playing the best game thus far. My only criticism is the power may be going to her head and she might be playing too hard now, but hey...at least she's playing! So I would not say she's "boring" OR "polarizing."

Ho-manda is McCrea's skanky whore. Is that boring? No. Is it polarizing? No. It's...well...being a skanky ho. And apparently a fair share of America share my assessment otherwise she would not be America's MVP nominee.

My point being "bell-curve" (love'em or hate'em) is just ONE of many ways to assess a HG in the game of BB. Other ways would include boring or polarizing (just as you stated) as well as, skanky, proactive player who gives 100%, etc., etc.

LAST EDITED ON 08-02-13 AT 06:43 PM (EST)

Of course there are more than two types of characters. I was just referring to your bell hops and flat-liners.

As for Amanda, I believe she was the nominee mostly because Aaryn was HOH and the fight she had with Elissa. People generally like the showmances. Rachel, Jordan, Romber and even Parvati were very popular.

ETA: I don't like your misuse of the bell curve because it is a mathematical tool to demonstrate the random distribution of one variable around an average value. Here, you have hate on one side of your curve, love on the other and no average value in the middle. That, by definition, constitutes two opposite poles, not a Gaussian curve.

Included would also be the fact that Amanda was so anti-Howard, who was viewed as a guy with class.

If she isn't HoH this week, and she isn't nominated to go on the block by the HoH, I think the odds are better than even that she will be America's nom. again, especially considering that speech she gave after Howard was booted.

Agreed, the fight with Howard also played a bigger role than her showmance with McCrae. I believe however that Aaryn will be the nominee every week that she is eligible.

"I believe however that Aaryn will be the nominee every week that she is eligible."

Hard to debate that statement and wouldn't be surprised if she is America's nomination on Wednesday (assuming she's not put up on the block by the HOH on Sunday.)

It will be interesting to see if she's garnished even a little support by not reneging on her deal. And it wasn't with just any HG...it was with Helen, quite arguably the most popular player this season thus far.

You think keeping her word with Helen might be just enough to drop her out of top vote-getter for America's nominee this week???

My guess is that Aaryn will be the nominee because of the racism and because that's who Elissa wants voted out.

No question if Aaryn was not HOH she would have received the most votes. But she was HOH and with that fact in mind, voters had to nominate a HG among the remaining 11.

Yes people generally like showmances...but I didn't mentioned the word "showmance" when referencing Ho-manda. I said she was a skank and people generally do NOT like skanks.

Jordan and Amb"a" were involved in showmances. They developed strong feelings for another player and even stole a kiss from them every now and then. To put that in the same category as how Ho-manda is behaving is ludicrous.

Anyway I said a "fair share" of voters probably targeted Ho-manda because of her skanky behavior...not ALL of them. Her spat with Elissa as a big reason for her nomination is really a reach...although I do agree with Kingfish that being Anti-Howard played a big role in her being nominated as well.

"ETA: I don't like your misuse of the bell curve because it is a mathematical tool to demonstrate the random distribution of one variable around an average value. Here, you have hate on one side of your curve, love on the other and no average value in the middle. That, by definition, constitutes two opposite poles, not a Gaussian curve."

HUH...WHAT???!!!
Have you been getting advice from Howard on how to get your point across????? ROFLMAO
GEEZ, all I'm trying to say is with a "bell-curve" you have a large number of people liking you, a large number of people disliking you with very little in between.

I TRULY believe the average reader knows EXACTLY what I'm trying to convey without your advanced placement mathematics mumbo-jumbo. LOL

Advanced placement mathematics? No, simple statistics.

Let me try it slowly:

- A large number of people like you => One side of the spectrum.
- A large number of people dislike you => Opposite side of the spectrum.

So, you have a large number of people on the negative end, a large number on the positive end but zero (or close to it) in the middle. In any bell curve, the highest value is attained in the middle but here we have zero viewers in the middle, the ones that don't care either way. Capisce?

I wonder what makes Amanda a ho considering that her feelings for McCrae seem as genuine as Amber's or Jordan's. I also joyfully noticed that you forgot to mention Parvati in your reply. She is very popular among Survivor fans and that must still irk you!

LAST EDITED ON 08-02-13 AT 09:37 PM (EST)

Capisce????

AHHHH, not really. But don't sweat it, math and science were my weakest subjects.

It's not her feelings that makes her a ho...it's how she acts on her feelings. I'm not sold on how "genuine" Ho-manda's feelings are quite yet. This whole engagement/wedding in the House nonsense with someone with whom you didn't even know their existence a month ago is a bonafide joke IMO. Jeff and Jordan have been an item for a couple years now, and Rob and Amb"a" have a wedding certificate and two kids to show for it.

We've gone through the Perv-ati analogy a zillion times already which is why I didn't mention her now, but will "joyfully" recap.
It's hard to truly gauge Perv-ati on the skank-ameter because without soap, deodorant, shampoo, toothpaste and mouthwash on Survivor it makes the comparison apples-to-oranges when comparing her to skanks on BB.
And let's not forget she had her share of critics as well for her behavior, so I am not irked in the least.

>Capisce????
>
>AHHHH, not really. But don't sweat
>it, math and science were
>my weakest subjects.

Ok, I'll make it simpler: You're describing a dromedary but what we really have is a camel!

Then maybe you can stand on your head when you look at my "camel." This way it will put you on the same page as the other 99.999% who understand exactly what I'm saying.

You're just not good at math, as you mention.

Count me in your .001%.

Actually, no one can understand exactly what you are trying to say.

OK...let me explain it better...

Voters are going to rank someone or something on a scale of 1 to 5. One being they really like and five being they really dislike.

Now image a graph where the X-axis (horizontal line) is numbered 1 - 5 across the axis. And a Y-axis (vertical line) showing the number of voters casting their vote.

In a "love'em or hate'em" proposition, a lot of voters really liking (1) a lot of voters really disliking (5) and very few in between (3), the point for 1 would be high on the graph, 2 would be a little lower, 3 would be the lowest, 4 would begin to skew upward, and 5 would be high pretty close to the level of 1.

Now draw a line to connect the dots...and WALLA!!!!!...guess what...you get a bell shaped curve!

Your bell curve is upside down. That's why nobody understands you.

Aruba did say that I should stand on my head!

PS. Walla? Your French also needs a refresher. It's "Voilà".

"Aruba did say that I should stand on my head!

Thanks Michel!
I was going to reiterate that statement but I figured why continue to beat a dead horse. Enough was enough.

"PS. Walla? Your French also needs a refresher. It's "Voilà".

I consider myself a "mutt" (have about six different decents in my heritage) but French is not one of them. Thanks for the correction, although I can't find the "a" with an accent on my keyboard???

PS. To get an "à" try pressing "AltCar 133"

What you are describing is a bimodal distribution. Where you have more than one peak in the distribution.

Now sometimes what lies between can look like an upside down bell curve..