Is anyone shocked at the outcome? I'm not. The minute Danielle let Dan talk her into using the veto on him during the F4, the outcome was decided. Not that I'm disappointed that it was Ian that won over Dan. I'm just sick that Dan walked out with any money at all due to his despicable moves. But then again Danielle let Dan walk all over her time and time again so in so many ways it was her own fault.

• RE: IAN --BIG BROTHER CHAMP,Round Robin, 02:19 PM, 09-20-12
• RE: IAN --BIG BROTHER CHAMP,michel, 10:46 PM, 09-20-12
  • Dan had the Opportunity,CSHS79, 10:04 AM, 09-21-12
    • RE: Dan had the Opportunity,michel, 05:28 PM, 09-21-12
      • RE: Dan had the Opportunity,Outfrontgirl, 05:38 PM, 09-21-12
        • RE: Dan had the Opportunity,kingfish, 08:29 PM, 09-21-12
          • RE: Dan had the Opportunity,michel, 09:52 PM, 09-21-12
        • RE: Dan had the Opportunity,michel, 09:44 PM, 09-21-12
          • RE: Dan had the Opportunity,kingfish, 10:02 AM, 09-22-12
          • RE: Dan had the Opportunity,DearAbby, 07:55 PM, 09-22-12
            • RE: Dan had the Opportunity,Outfrontgirl, 00:00 AM, 09-24-12
              • RE: Dan had the Opportunity,DearAbby, 09:05 AM, 09-24-12

No shock here. I knew it was game over when hurricane-brain Danielle used the veto on Dan. I knew then that unless Ian did something stupid himself, Danielle had just handed him 500 grand on a silver platter. And Ian was smart enough to keep his destiny in his own hands, so it was over.

You two give way too much importance to Danielle. It was always Dan vs the jury. Had he been able to make his case to the jury, Dan would have won.

The problem was his decision to eliminate Shane: Not only was the move unnecessary but it went against the case that he made to the jury. The other moves were made because he was in trouble but he wasn't in trouble at that point. He should have explained the last move as a proof of his total control on the game. Ian didn't save himself then, it was all Dan. Maybe the jury would have seen it the way Janelle did.

PS. Is there such a thing as a despicable move?

In any game where a jury decides the winner, it's not whether a contestant can make an argument, it's whether the jury believes the argument. In Dan's case, the jury didn't. The reason was they all were disgusted not with the fact that Dan lied to them, but that he swore on the Bible as well as on his family.

But back to my original post and Danielle's trust issues. Time and again she continued to put her trust in Dan who time and again disappointed her. Yet she was more wary of Shane, who was right in his choices. He tried to let her know he cared about her but said he didn't want a showmance. This was smart since if they were seen a couple, it would've put a target on their back and possibly they would've been voted out earlier in the game.

So you may discount Danielle's influnece in the outcome, but I say it was important. After all, if she had only been smart enough to trust Shane's reasoning for not having a showmance and been less trusting of Dan, we might have had a different outcome.

You must not have seen Survivor China to think that a good jury case cannot earn someone the win.

As for swearing on the bible, it was Rupert in HvV that said it best, "If you look me in the eye and swear you are telling me the truth then I know you are lying." That's how the jury should have taken Dan's promises but they didn't so they should have been mad at themselves. But, for them to come to that realization, Dan needed to explain his moves, make them feel better about themselves.

If Danielle hadn't used the veto on Dan then Ian would have been gone so of course, I am not discounting her influence but I firmly maintain that it wasn't Danielle that gave the win to Ian, it was all Dan. It was always all Dan.

michel, I totally agree ...

And I cannot stand jury members who whine about broken promises when they themselves DR'd about how they planned to keep their word as long as it was beneficial to their game and not a moment longer -- which is exactly what Dan did, but they can't see that.

Dan's final speech was very poor compared to the way he crafted his funeral speech. I don't know whether he got cocky or was worn out or maybe too wound up with adrenaline to slow down and explain things in a good light, but it did him no good, whereas Ian did a fine job.

I saw Ian on The Talk and he had a whole flow chart he had made for his plan to get through BB, which was pretty cool and increased my respect for his game.

LAST EDITED ON 09-21-12 AT 08:30 PM (EST)

Ian showed a real fighting spirit. Good for him.

I have seen jury speeches influence (apparently) a jury, but in this case I think this jury was so against Dan that no speech he could have made would have changed their minds. Shane and Frank were totally lost to him, and Joe seemed dead set against him as did Jenn. I feel sure they were beyond being swayed by a speech.

I was surprised a bit that Britney didn't vote for him, she seemed to be "Leaning Dan", and I'm surprised that after all that, Danielle voted for him

That girl is really slow on the uptake.

Dan's mist was pretty impressive though. He is the best all time player, hands down.

Jenn called Ian a snitch so that should have been enough of an opening for Dan to get her vote but instead he rambled on about having blood on his hands. I would have told everyone that Ian was laughing at Mike and Frank, even mocking them, for not seeing that he was the mole. I'd have recalled that scene when Ian told Mike he'd return as a villain, saying Ian called Mike dumb for not understanding what he meant.

He could have also continued to lie, telling Ashley that Ian booted her because he was angry with her and called her all sorts of name after her date with Frank. Close enough to the truth anyway that Ian couldn't deny it.

As for Shane, he may have swayed him by mentioning that Ian had agreed to throw the final HoH competition so that's why he booted him. Put some blood on Ian's hands.

A Flow chart? Could you give us an idea of what it looked like? I'm really curious.

As for Dan's speech, I think his first mistake was interrupting Ian during the first question but not coming back to explain why he disagreed. Then he should have pointed out the fact that he didn't have a choice: The game reset and he only had Danielle while Janelle and Mike had 3 players each. He had to be ruthless if he wanted to get the money for his family.

That would have been my argument had I been in his place. Apologized deeply for hurting everyone but show that it was all or nothing, pointing out the fact that Ian was oblivious to many of the decisions that the alliance made and didn't save himself.

LAST EDITED ON 09-22-12 AT 02:58 PM (EST)

Yeah, someone should post that flow chart.

Dan's speech could have been better. And Shane is dumb enough to possibly have been swayed. I mean, look at his hairdo, he might as well have had "IDIOT" tattooed across his forehead. Maybe. I doubt it, but I can't say it isn't possible.

And Jenn was so nonsensical that there is always the possibility that somehow, in the labyrinth that is her thinking process, Dan might have found the right button to push.

In my mind the it would be very unlikely, but I've missed the mark in guessing jury thinking so often that I have to accept that it would be possible. Dan could be persuasive.

I think that for the leaners (esp Brittney) that the fact that Dan had already won once influenced the vote, Ian's such a poor puppy dog college student type that it would be difficult not to give it to him in a close call.

A Flow chart? Could you give us an idea of what it looked like?

It's not exactly a flow chart. Ian mapped out a plan on a piece of paper, which the rats confiscated from his belongings before he entered the house. Here's a link to a story that includes a video clip from "The Talk" where Ian explains his strategy.

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/big-brother/big-brother-14-winner-ian-terr-47561.aspx

Thanks for posting the clip, Abby!

Not a classic flow chart with alternatives, but flowing from beginning to end. No doubt he had alt moves mapped out in his head.

No doubt Ian was in it to win it!