Yes, I was wondering the same thing. When Kelly was cleaning the grout in the bathroom there was some perscription meds on the counter. I don't thing its a bad idea to ban alcohol from the house. I just didn't like the way the other woman hung Kim out to dry. They were drinking alot too and they were also serving her more. I saw them laughing and having a great time and then its like BAM " Kim we think you have a problem!"

Exactly alcohol and meds are a dangerous combination.

I have to admit, Rhonda and IV took me by surprise when they brought this up at the board of review. I really thought the way they had talked to Christie, they felt she was the one with the problem of judging and not the other women for drinking. I think they singled out Kim because she is great at making excuses for what she does and getting offended when other view points are given to her regarding herself. Maybe this has nothing to do with the drinking but more of a test to see if Kim has overcome this need to be right and validated in everything she does. Getting rid of the booze wasn't a bad thing, especially while being in a "recovery house". It dulls your senses and emotions and how can you really do the work needed when your hung over or drunk? I just really think this is more of a test for Kim to see how she will react to this kind of situation. She didn't handle it very well when the women tried to tell her about slamming the doors and such. I also haven't seen her take to much responsiblity for the problems in her marriage either, don't get me wrong, she has made some improvements, but I still think this is just another test for Kim to see how far she has really come in obtaining her steps.

IMO alcohol and cigarettes should have been banned from the SO house from the first day of season 1. Too bad they had to wait until the end of season 3 before the LC's stepped in and decided that alcohol was no longer allowed.

I too thought it interesting that Iyanla gets in Kims face about her alcohol and actions yet never mentioned alcohol to Allison.

I also thought it interesting that Kim was drinking enough that she was buying her own hootch instead of what the HG used their grocery budget to buy. I also do not think it is the first time Kim has 'blocked out', even though it may be the first time it was shown on tv. Kim stated in group she goes out with her girlfriends to the bars and she loves it when men from the bars tell her how pretty she is. ...... BIG CLUE - drunks in a bar telling a drunk brunette how pretty she is really isn't a compliment it is meant as a means to get her in the sack. Kim definately has a problem with booze, no matter if her husband's problem is worse than hers or not. I was glad she got called on it. I also thought she dealt with it better than any other time the HG's have called her on her actions. I expected her to be in everyones face demanding an explanation but she seemed to take the criticism very well. There may be hope for her yet.

I agree they should not have alcohol or cigarettes.

I was very confused by the meeting. Yes Kim was a loud silly drunk but up until this show, they have never shown her doing that. HEllo SO how about keeping the story line constitent!

I don't know if she does or doesn't. I just felt that this was a cheap ploy for a little drama though.

My biggest beef with Christie is why didn't she just go out to the living room or where ever they were making the noise and ask them to keep it down she was trying to sleep. Nope she stays in her room and stews on it. Be a big girl and confront the problem!

If I had gone through all Kim has gone through, I would have had a drink too. Everyone thought it was a good time and very funny until Christie started whining about it. As far as how much people drink, keep in mind that they edit a lot and only show what they want you to see. I personally liked seeing Kim loosen up a little..

That's kind of the way I felt. It's like their concern for Kim's "alcohol problem" came out of nowhere (it's been alluded to, but they didn't send her to that recovery house).

IMO, Christie (like any "addict" who can't partake in their addiction anymore), was more pissed off at the fact that she couldn't join in, and Kim's behavior put that harsh reality in her face. However, the mature thing would have been to deal with it instead of blaming Kim.

But that aspect was never discussed. Which is odd, 'cuz Christie's reaction would seem to be part of the process of letting go of your addiction, and dealing with the realities of the outside world. Does she expect everyone in her life to not drink around her just 'cuz she has "issues"?

Having said all that, do you agree that Christie even has a drinking problem? (from what we've been allowed to see!) All I ever heard about was some kind of twice-a-month binge-drinking episodes, whereas Kim talked about her and her husband imbibing on a regular basis.

At first I thought it was a little to much to be taking all the alcohol out of the house but when I saw how much liquor there was in the house I was shocked.There seemed to be alot there.I know alcohol can be a serious problem for some people.Where should they draw the line?Should they remove junk food from the house for people with wieght issues?I can't help remembering the chocolate fountain with Jill.I thought it was incensitive.So I guess I think there is a double standard in the house.I also think Rhonda favors Christie for some reason.

>I also think Rhonda favors Christie for some reason.

OF COURSE SHE DOES!

Rhonda wrote about her in her book, which had to of been written before Christies entrance to starting over. They were probably friends outside of SO house. jmo

LAST EDITED ON 04-08-06 AT 12:22 PM (EST)

>
>Rhonda wrote about her in her
>book, which had to of
>been written before Christies entrance
>to starting over. They were
>probably friends outside of SO
>house. jmo

I don't know if they were pals before the show but it's become blatently obvious to me Christie's uppity attitude is being too easily ignored by Rhonda, perhaps even encouraged.
Oh please, tell me we don't have another deluded houseguest with visions of becoming a life coach.

I see the alcohol issue in the house has mostly to do with who's going to control what and who's best at manipulating that situation. Christie wins that, hands down.

At this point, if alcohol (legal) and cigarettes (legal) are going to be banned then I think it's only fair these women be tested for drugs. I mean, why is it Christie looks doped up most of the time, barely able to sit up straight, so sleepy/tired/ s l o w ? She's exhibits so many red flags of someone on drugs it's almost painful watching her anymore. And who else might be abusing drugs, I wonder, considering some of the bizarre behavior.

It's not the alcohol in the house that's the problem, it's the resident dry drunk and her buddy Rhonda who don't have a grip on their own issues with booze.

From the beginning, alcohol should've been banned not only b/c of possible prescription side-effects but also to aid clarity-of-thought and to support newly- clean members. I also agree that it's awful for Ilanya to blatantly contradict herself and for Rhonda to favor whiney Christie by scapegoating Kim. The LC's needed to admit they erred in setting up the rules to begin with!! Now, even if Kim is courting alcoholism, the issue is hopelessly tangled.

I too thought it very odd how Iyanla's approach to Christie the night before BOR was so different from their plan of action the next day...and yes there was no intervention with boohoo Allison so it hardly seems fair to Kim. Once again she is made to be the bad guy..4 of them were drinking..they were all having fun but the next day all fingers are pointing at Kim WTF!?

Did anyone else catch Kim's comment about the HM's that night "well they must have been having fun cuz they kept pouring my drinks all night" WOW that stuck with me..could she have been set up for the fall? Wouldn't surprise me. On the other hand I wonder if Kim was exaggerating this fact???

I've honestly wondered about the alcohol in the house but it's been going on for so long it just seems wrong to take this approach NOW. Christie told them they could drink, and asked that they not hide it from her..seems to me like a big ole setup for drama/ratings.

I honestly think Kim's been drinking more than 1-2 glasses of wine in the evening..it's not a good sign that she's not admitting it. If I were her I'd probably do the same thing just to cope in that house but I don't think she's being totally honest..if NOT it's probably because she's in the bashing spotlight again. Doesn't surprise me that she's buying her own at this point..otherwise it comes from the house funds..I would bet Alliscum bought her own but no bashed her. I feel bad for Kim (as usual)

LAST EDITED ON 04-08-06 AT 09:24 PM (EST)

Who said Kim blacked out? Was it anyone besides "Lisa the Busybody" (you know, the 53 year old "child/woman" who yucked it up during the party, but now hangs her head and says, "Oh yes...we were definitely bad. And, oh yes...the girls told me that Kim was the worst, so yeah, Kim IS the worst. Wow, she has a real drinking problem...isn't that what we are saying and thinking today???).

When Lisa mentioned Kim's black-out, it sounded like she was over-reacting to something that was said during one of those typical "morning after" conversations involving the people who partied together. They relive the night's events, and recall the drunk antics of the group. Anyone who has ever gotten really smashed knows what it is like to be a part of a conversation like that. Often more than one person will say, "Oh wow, I forgot about that!" But a foggy memory doesn't constitute an alcohol induced black-out.

I have an inlaw who had black-outs before he got sober (talk about a wake of destruction...). For him, just finding the people he partied with the night before would have been a good thing. In his world, a black-out meant waking up and not knowing where he was, who he was with, or how he got there (Cassie said that she had black-outs). If Kim said that they kept giving her drinks, she obviously remembers the evening, although the details may become less clear as the night wore on.

In the cold light of morning, Lisa's change of heart probably had less to do with her own personal convictions and more to do with her perception that the group's perspective was changing (and she was going to change right along with them). I believe the black-out statement was her attempt to distance herself from Kim's behavior. Ahhh...there's that sisterhood thing again!

My opinion concerning the SO group's behavior has nothing to do with my own attitude towards alcohol. Personally, I am not a drinker. I don't care for the taste, and it puts me to sleep. I've seen what alcohol abuse can do to individuals, families, and children. It can be devastating. But that doesn't mean that all drinkers are alcoholics. For most people who indulge, it is a way to kick back and have some fun. In the right place, at the right time, and with precautions taken (designated drivers), it's just a form of relaxation and celebration. I don't think that the SO house is the place for that type of relaxation, but it isn't my show. I do remember seeing an expose on reality shows and one of the cast members from "The Real Life", another B/M (the producers) hit reality show, had a lot to say about the behind the scenes stuff. Apparently, alcohol consumption is part of the show because it lowers inhibitions and makes for great footage.

As I said in another thread, if an ambulance taking Karen (SO, #2) away because of a probable pill and booze overdose wasn't enough for the producers to re-evaluate their position on alcohol, then why is Christie's grievance enough to institute Prohibition? I just can't agree that Kim's behavior was so singularly damaging that it warranted a group interrogation and a subsequent policy change in the house. I think ALL of them went too far, and they DID act like a bunch of kids on Spring break, but if anyone was going to be chastised for being inconsiderate and drunk, NO ONE should have been singled out as a closet alcoholic. (BTW, the hindsight observations about Kim's use of plastic cups to hide her drinking was typical SO behavior)

Kim may have an alcohol problem. Her life, her marriage, and her family would probably all improve without the involvement of alcohol. But Kim needs to come to that decision for herself - not because she fulfills the SO job description for the mandatory scape goat position.

Iyanla, true to form, was hypocritical. I was actually impressed with her MYOB attitude with Christie. Did she believe what she said or does she just enjoy making people nervous? I don't trust her. I don't trust any of them.

Edited for typo
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LAST EDITED ON 04-08-06 AT 10:12 PM (EST)

Thank you for expressing so clearly what I have been thinking the last couple to days. Kim did not black out. She said she couldn't remember some things and that does not equal blacking out.

Your in-law's experience with black-outs is more in line with what I would characterize as a black-out - not forgetting parts of the evening.

Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matthew 6:34

My sister used to drink to excess like Kim. She would not remember things she said and did.
That is blacking out. Its a real good sign of an alcoholic.
By the way my sister is a recovery alcoholic for 20 yrs now.

I say Kim is heading that way and soon if she does not acknowledge it.
And Kim complaining about her husband's drinking.
That poor little Jax . I hope they get theirselves together.

I have attended AA meetings . They all talk about the black
outs . It is refered to as not remembering.
I don't think you have very much experience with alcoholics .
I do . And I also say Kim is headed for that road.
Instead of her complaining about her husband , she needs to focus on Kim.
And It was not an inlaw it was my sister.

Actually, I do have experience with alcoholism as my father was an alcoholic. He never admitted it and never went to meetings. Not a fun person to grow up with. I also have my own experience with alcohol. While I am not an alcoholic and never will be, I drank excessively in college at times and got drunk enough that I forgot some things. That did not make me an alcoholic. That's the only point I am trying to make.

I don't disagree that Kim is headed down a dark road if she doesn't face what is happening now. I just don't think she is an alcoholic.

You write, "And It was not an inlaw it was my sister." If you are referring to the statement that I made about in-laws you need to check the reply order. I was replying to SR's post where she mentioned an in-law who was an alcoholic.

Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matthew 6:34

Oops! I was the person who mentioned blackouts and inlaws. (sorry Sharnina)

I apologize for any confusion my initial statement caused. I don't want to take this topic OT, so I'm hoping that Cygnus may indulge this small diversion so that I can shed some light on what I meant in my original post. I'm not revisiting this to draw any more comments on the subject of blackouts; this is something I should have included in my original post.

Actually, there are valid points all over this thread. In addressing this issue, I was comparing Lisa's assessment of Kim's behavior to the black-outs that I've seen. In reality, none of us will ever know if Kim (or Allison) are really alcoholics. The editing isn't being conducted with accuracy as the prime motivation, lol.

When I mentioned blackouts and my in-law, it was based on what we learned through our involvement in his recovery. This inlaw is my husband's brother and best friend (I'm not divulging anything top secret..he'd be the first to tell his story). When sober, he was intelligent, friendly and engaging. He was an integral part of our family. Unfortunately, when he was drunk, the damage he caused wasn't just emotional. Too many times (starting in college) the end result of his binges included property damage - some of it substantial. One example (and there are plenty), the police showed up at the door one Sunday morning because his car had been found wrapped around a tree (the vehicle plates led them to the owner, my b-i-l). Their pounding on the door woke him up. He had no idea how he got home, that his car was not in the driveway, and he could not account for the bloody gash on his chin. What was most disturbing was the fact that the passenger side of the car's windshield was smashed (by the force of a head). He had no idea who he was with, if they were injured, and where they went. That was a monumental moment for him.

After years and years of sobriety/drunkenness, he finally got serious about ten years ago. Our family tried to support him, and we participated in his recovery as much as possible. That meant we were invited to attend family meetings. So, we listened and learned.

His type of black-outs were called "en-bloc" black-outs. In a nutshell, the theory is that the transfer of information from short to long term memory in the brain is blocked. Despite all efforts to recall the details of the episode, the individual can't recall anything. Oddly enough, they can perform some relatively complicated tasks while in the midst of an en-bloc blackout (driving, conversing, and even appearing coherent). That is where my b-i-l got into major trouble.

The other type of black-out is called a "fragmentary" black-out. This is a partial block of memory formation. The individual may know that he is missing pieces of information, but the events can often be recalled if he is reminded of them. The reminder acts as a trigger. Alcohol is believed to affect the formation and storage of memory to some degree in everyone. It's likely that Jodi and Lisa also had a few foggy images, but did they have black-outs, even fragmentary ones? Who knows?

The brain is so complicated, and this research has been going on for decades. Oddly enough, some researches don't believe that black-outs in and of themselves are proof that the sufferer is an alcoholic.

But that's another thread...

I'm sticking with the general consensus...alcohol has no place in the SO house.

*******************************************

Sharnina is right; you've got the wrong person. Moreover, you're stating an opinion, not a fact.

You may not criticize someone else on here for having a different opinion; that's a violation of our guidelines. Just disagree and move on.

I agree SR..if Karen's situation wasn't enough for them to get rid of the alcohol in the house well this shouldn't even be happening. I'm sick of Kim being the target for all the BS. They should have gotten rid of all the alcohol way before now..and when they finally choose to do so they have to make Kim look a fool! Go figure...

I too loved Iyanla's approach to Christie but was then appauled by the 180 she did the very next day! What she originally said made ALOT of sense IMO..too bad she had to end up following Rhonda's wagon..makes you wonder what really happened to change her way of thinking overnight!?

They ought to ban alcohol from the house.

Maybe they "played" this episode up to make a point with Kim. Pairing Christie and Kim together will only cause things to heat up a little bit faster.

It's probably a good idea to ban alcohol from the house, at least temporarily. But, as mentioned above, alcohol does reduce inhibitions and this makes for good television. Also, it was pretty funny when Kim told Kelly she looked pretty in blue. That's the most I've ever laughed during the show. The jury is probably still out on whether or not Kim is a full-fledged alcoholic, but the signposts are troubling.

I would say that Iyana seen the tape of all that stuff that went on while these ladies were drunk .
Kim making all that noise in the bedroom while Christie was trying to sleep.
And I imagine Rhonda seen it too. And they decided they needed
to address the problem.

I am not condoning what the HG did but did you notice the alarm clock when Christie went to bed? It said 7:15! Seemed a bit much to me to expect total silence at 7:15 PM so she could get her beauty sleep for an early morning. Obviouosly her beauty sleep isn't working anyhow. She is such a whiny baby! How much sleep does she need that she needs to go to bed at 7:15 PM or how early was that appointment? I do have to say it was nice to see the HG having some fun and laughing together. They were all saying how much fun it was and how funny Kim was until Christie started complaining later and then they got in front of the LC's. They act like a bunch of pansies in front of the LC's. NO one said how much fun they had or how much they were laughing and getting along. All in all I am glad the alcohol is gone as I do believe it is hard to deal with things like they are in the SOH when they are drinking.

You are absolutley correct. The SO ladies do not need any alcohol.
They need to keep their minds clear.
Christie might have went to bed early because she did not want
to be tempted with all the drinking.
And she does seem like a whine bag.

>>And she does seem like a whine bag.<<

LOL! She's still an addict. She's just substituted whine for wine.

I don't believe that just because someone doesn't remember something that they are in an alcoholic blackout. I drink water and occasionally a pop and I don't remember things from the night or day before. How many people drive to work and don't remember every second of their commute? Lots of people do that but that doesn't meanthey're in a blackout. I felt bad for Kim being made to be the scapegoat yet again. In the past why didn't the LC's attack Al-lush-in for her drinking so much every day? After a while under direct questioning from Rhonda she even said she had a problem yet they brushed it under the rug. Typical for the LC's..if you aren't a chosen pet then you get blasted for everything even if it's what others are doing.

The alcohol gets banned from the house when is serves a dramatic purpose to remove it ... not because it isn't really a good idea to mix alcohol and intense "therapy" (of course, the "therapy" aspect is in serious question this year!) IMO, alcohol was definetely desired by producers et. al. prior to using it's removal for yet another dramatic Kim-attack. For the healing aspect of SO, I could never understand allowing alcohol in the first place. Quite unnecessary. There were problems with it in prior seasons, as with this. However, even this season when there was concern expressed by HGs about Allison's drinking ... followed by the 24 hr argument between Jill & TJ about spending grocery money on alcohol, QueenJill was adamant that using grocery money on alcohol was not to be questioned nor revoted on. It was serving a dramatic purpose ... until it served a dramatic purpose to remove it. As was said by others, if it was honestly being removed because of possible missuse, it would have been done in season 1 and never allowed again.

As for Kim being "alcoholic" ... none of us really knows how much and how often Kim was actually drinking. I've known a lot of people who have a mixed drink or a glass of wine every night (sometimes one of each) who were never "alcoholic". They had the same amount each night as part of their social enjoyment, relaxation, celebration of a nice evening meal. They never increased it nor used it for "numbing" purposes & it did not change their behavior and it never caused problems. When they didn't have it, they were just as fine without it. There are just a lot of people in our area who have very somewhat formal "dinner time" which includes beginning with hors d'oeuvre and a cocktail then the "correct" wine with dinner. Also, many of these same people are "professionals" who often go out to "happy hour" with groups from the office ... which it sounds much like what Kim spoke of when she and her friends would go to a bar. I worked a number of years in downtown Atlanta in corporate banking. Very often we would gather after work at one of the downtown "bars" after a day in the office. And, tho married, I too was approached by other men. And it was definitly flattering ... and my marriage was never in trouble. In fact, I would come home and tell hubby about it and have a good laugh. Not saying Kim is or isn't alcoholic and not saying her marriage is or isn't in trouble. Just that none of what I have seen or heard would be definitive either way, especially considering this year's editing. Even the evening of over-drinking looked to be nothing different than a group of people having a great time, letting off some steam and enjoying themselves ... no different than the millions of other adults who get together, bring out the booze and have a crazy time. Happens ALL THE TIME. And I'm sure if Kim had done this more often than this time it would have been highlighted and surely jumped on by cameras and HGs. If an occassional fun night of over drinking where some details are somewhat blurred was a definitive sign of alcoholism then I dare say there would be a rediculously small % of non-alcoholics in this country! And in countries such as France where every meal we had there was automatically searved with an unending supply of wine, I guess the entire country would have to go to AA .... yet, in actuallity, the alcoholism rate of France is quite low. And the "black-out"? ... it was never Kim who discussed the "black out" ... that was EchoLisa's exadurated description of some details being fuzzy to Kim. Fuzzy details does not a black-out make.

I am disappointed with Iyanla's sudden change of attitude regarding ComplainingChristie. I loved Iyanla's 1st answer to ComplainingChristie after the night of partying when Christie was trying desperately to get Kim in trouble. Christie's anti-Kim campaign began in group when it was basically answered by Rhonda but that wasn't good enough for Christie. She actually pulled a "Kelly" for the day in her over-obsession with "not being supported". In fact, I suspect Kelly was all too happy to help her keep that fire going.

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A man's got to do what a man's got to do. A WOMAN must do what he can't.