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Thread Number: 1346
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Original Message
"On the other hand --"
Posted by Estee on 05-18-06 at 08:35 AM
-- does any team that managed to come in last twice really deserve to win the Race? I sort of don't hate BJ & Tyler as people, and you might be inclined to give them a semi-pass on that three-way dash for the second non-elimination mat. (I would if it wasn't for the alternate path issue. And maybe the shoes.) And sure, it's a nice story when someone comes back from the PhilMugging twice. But when you finish in the 'I'm -- pleased to tell you' twice, once on merit and once because of one of those last-second bad judgments on which the Race generally pivots -- did you really earn the right to be in the Final Three at all?

Look, I generally give a pass to whatever team gets the last mugging -- if the robbery takes place during the finale. They've already made Final Three, the producers want to add a little drama to the show, and someone's got to be the victim. But landing on both of what IceCat effectively called the lottery slots isn't just luck, it's lack of skill.

I'm sort of glad for BJ & Tyler as people. As Racers -- very, very mixed.

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Messages in this discussion
"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by Max Headroom on 05-18-06 at 09:17 AM
I agree completely. BJ and Tyler were clearly the second-best racers of the final three, even down to the relative arrival times at the final flag roadblock, but they pulled through when they needed to. Deserving winners? Not. Apparently decent people? Yes.


"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by ARnutz on 05-18-06 at 09:30 AM
Honestly, I felt a little deflated when they won. I liked them well enough as people and was very glad the sore loser frats didn't win, but I was really rooting for Ray & Yolanda.

Plus... I understand that with the freezing cold temps of the last legs, it's a safety issue for them to require cold weather clothing, but gee... you get stripped of your belongings and it doesn't matter because we'll just give you new stuff!

Oh well... at least they aren't the asswipe race winners that some seasons had. *cough*Freddy/Kendra*cough*Flo/Zach*cough*

"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by samboohoo on 05-18-06 at 02:25 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-18-06 AT 02:25 PM (EST)

RAY grew on me. I did not like them at the beginning, especially when he made her do the high dive challenge.

Flo and Zach, Uggghhh. It still pisses me off that she pretty much quit during the one rowing task and they still managed to "complete the task." If I recall correctly, she wasn't the one who did the rowing, it was some other guy.

And I think you may like Chip and Kim, but I thought Kim was one of the least deserving winners. Chip, yes. Kim didn't do jack.

ETA: I was very pleased with the Hippies' win.


It's Arkie Love

"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by Jims02 on 05-18-06 at 09:59 AM
Yeah. I kinda felt the same way. I didn't really like Eric and Jeremy that much, but I did think they were by far the superior races, especially coming down the final stretch. I'm especially conflicted, since I thought Eric and Jeremy had a better final leg overall than the hippies.

But BJ and Tyler are cool guys, so I don't mind their win.

"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by Lisa0116 on 05-18-06 at 10:07 AM
I liked the hippies and I wanted them to win. I thought they had a great time on the race. Whether or not they lost in a non elimination round (or two) is not the question-they did well during much of the race and they were first at the end. I didn't like the frat boys (the ambiguously gay duo) and they were pretty poor losers at the finish.
"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by Tahj on 05-18-06 at 11:19 AM
Yeah, even though they came in first 3 times (four counting the final) and second three times, they should have done the right thing and just dropped out for coming in last twice.


Moves courtesy of Syren

"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by Estee on 05-18-06 at 11:28 AM
Well, in that casez, Eric & Jeremy should have quit on the spot the first time they didn't get a prize.

Remember their faces? They came really close to walking away right there.

"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by cahaya on 05-18-06 at 12:41 PM
No doubt E&J were more consistent than BJ&T, but when it came to the crunch, BJ&T came out ahead. BJ&T matched or beat them on most of the physical challenges (the wading through the stream and the paddleboating in the final episode are examples), and beat them on the Final Jeopardy category "Flags of the Race" challenge. Both teams had superior navigation skills and were up to the physical challenges, and had the final challenge been a physical task, it looks like E&J would have won it.

Sure, BJ&T got lucky. Luck is frequently part of the race, and they took advantage of what luck (or karma) came their way, all the way to winning the race.

I'm glad they won!


An Arkie Asian creation, with Foo dog images by Bob.

"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by Lasann on 05-18-06 at 12:56 PM
As Cahaya said. And they did come back from dirty last (no money, clothes) to the top. I wish it would have happened to E/J once to see if they could have recovered as well. I think not, but have no proof.


Heaven on Earth! That’s me lying on the beach *giggle*


"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by samboohoo on 05-18-06 at 02:27 PM
BJ also had some pretty bad luck at that digging challenge.


It's Arkie Love

"Another Point"
Posted by samboohoo on 05-18-06 at 02:30 PM
BJ and Tyler, IMO, were always good sports. Always. I never don't ever recall them saying things like, "Damn those hippies" or "I hate the hippies, etc."

They strategically used the Yield, which is part of the game. They never gave up, ever.


It's Arkie Love

"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by mikey on 05-18-06 at 03:40 PM
Second Place teams, in 5 of the 9 races I would place them as clearly stronger than the teams that actually won (see asterix's for the 5):

1. Frank & Margherita
2. Tara and Will *
3. Ian and Teri
4. Jon and Kelly
5. Colin and Christie *
6. Jon and Kris *
7. Romber *
8. Bransens
9. Eric and Jeremy *

"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by Karchita on 05-18-06 at 05:09 PM
Luck is a huge component in TAR, with good luck helping as much as bad luck doing teams in.

The hippies were lucky to be in the final three, but so was everyone else. Luck has helped probably every team in the whole history of the race to make it that far. I don't think it's fair to complain about a specific type of good luck, ie, non-elimiation. A team could get lucky in finding a taxi quicker and avoid elimination that way, so are you going to complain about any team that wins and had that happen? There isn't even a penalty when that happens.

Bad luck has eliminated many teams. Would it have been fair if BJ&T had been eliminated because of bad luck in that digging challenge? Luck is a huge part of TAR. You have to figure that luck always plays a part and all teams are subject to the same potential of good and bad luck. So what I want to see is a team that works well together and runs a smart race. The Hippies and Frats both did that.

I think people are happy about their win because they ran a good race, were upbeat, likeable, and entertaining. The luck is a non-issue. It also helps that in the final legs, they beat out one team (Frats) who were bad sports and were a lot less likable and another (Rayo) that were likeable, but didn't run a consistently good race and bickered.

"RE: On the other hand --"
Posted by Earl Colby Pottinger on 05-18-06 at 11:28 PM
I would like to point out that E&J were at the flags long before the hippies. They already had flags planted when the hippies arrived.

This meant E&J were ahead at the start of the last task, there was no element of luck in the last task and yet the hippies beat them.

E&J failed themselves, no-one else - they had all that was needed to win and the mistakes that cost them the million truely were thier own.