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Original Message
"Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"

Posted by mocha madness on 08-29-05 at 02:31 PM
I know that rock n' roll is all about rebellion, but what the h**l is going on with some of the rockers and their smoking habits. Isn't your voice what makes you in the singing business? So why does Jordis have a cigarette in her hand every moment, as well as J.D., and some of the others. When you lose a parent because of their stupid habit of smoking two packs a day makes me a little cranky on the subject and maybe someone else has insight that I lack on this subject, but smoking is a stupid, disgusting, costly, unhealthy habit. Singers above all should be avoiding it like the plague that it is. Of course I am writing about smoking cigarettes, so please no comments about weed. J.D. is also so stupid, or is he merely so smart, he doesn't need to learn the lyrics for a new song....now that's the guy I want fronting my band.

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Messages in this discussion
"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by riverrocker on 08-29-05 at 02:37 PM
Interesting you would say this....we've noticed it too. While some folks claim smoking calms their nerves & makes them look 'cool,' most have really 'husky' voices, terrible coughing, irritated throats, etc. from it. I can't imagine a person who wishes to make a living using his/her voice smoking! But maybe that's just me.

It would be interesting to hear from someone either 'in' the music business, or from someone who knows someone who is, as to whether or not smoking adds or detracts from lung capacity, voice pitch/range, etc.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by Snidget on 08-29-05 at 03:40 PM
http://www.scena.org/lsm/sm2-8/sm2-8dre.html has some info, but also why some rockers smoke.

The changes in vocal quality can sometimes be an effect they are trying to get.

A Syren Creation

"Alot of singers smoke."
Posted by tamarama on 08-29-05 at 03:41 PM
LAST EDITED ON 08-29-05 AT 03:45 PM (EST)

Placido Domingo chain smokes when he plays poker.

Plenty of singers smoke. No, it's not good for you. Yes, your breath capacity is better when you don't smoke. Yes, smoking dries your throat which can decrease your endurance and make you more susceptible to colds.

I am a classically trained singer with a long resume of professional musical theater credits. I also have a couple of operettas on the list (principal roles, professional). I also competed in the Met Auditions when I was younger. OK, I didn't win anything, but I was invited to sing for the master class -- and just preparing to compete is a huge accomplishment for a musical theater person (if I may pat myself on the back).

I smoke.

Several years ago, when I was in a long-running show, I quit smoking for about 6-7 weeks. Within 2 weeks of quitting, I noticed an improvement in my voice - and my castmates noticed as well. Unfortunately, I fell off the wagon, and I have not quit since.

Should I quit? Absolutely.
Has my smoking ever prevented me from getting a job? Nope.
Why? Because smoker or not, I am a kick-arse singer.

These contestants are not being asked to sing Wagner. They're not being asked to sing 8 shows a week. Their smoking isn't going to affect anything -- it's crappy technique that can shorten a career.

Those "husky-voiced" smokers you hear (Suzanne Pleshette anyone?) are typically not singers - or if they are, they're not very good ones. You're more likely to develop a whiskey voice by singing with really horrible technique than by smoking.

(edited because I can't spell)

"RE: Alot of singers smoke."
Posted by okaychatt on 08-30-05 at 10:32 PM
<You're more likely to develop a whiskey voice by singing with really horrible technique than by smoking.

What do you think of Jordis' performances?

It seems to me she misses a lot of notes and isn't as proficient as some of the others.

Last week was a disaster. I was amazed she wasn't in the bottom three.

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

"a very late response to your query (sorry)"
Posted by tamarama on 09-06-05 at 03:39 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-06-05 AT 03:40 PM (EST)

>>What do you think of Jordis' performances?<<

At the beginning, I thought she had the one of the best voices & techniques (toolbox) of the 14, and certainly of the women. Now I think that's Suzie (of the total women - not of the 14).

As weeks went by, I’ve been disappointed at Jordis' lack of range & technique..."Dream On" is by no means an easy sing, but I sure thought she had more chops than that, I was surprised she was so horrible at it. It was both too high AND too low for her.

I think her main problem vocally is that she doesn’t know how to play to her strengths – and therefore hide her weaknesses. The band (or Dave, can’t remember which) even asked her: If she was so willing to change up the melody on the Dylan song, why didn’t she change it up on “Dream On” & save herself the embarrassment? She didn’t have an answer.

She doesn’t understand when it’s OK & when it’s not OK to change things up…when you’re learning a never-before-released song and recording it with the composers there…DON’T change the melody. EVER. That’s very, very bad. When you’re doing a cover of a classic, go ahead and take liberties – but do it carefully & creatively. And DEFINITELY do it when you can’t sing it like the original. Very few women could sing “Dream On” exactly like Steven Tyler because physiologically, women don’t have a falsetto range. Unless she’s had some serious training and a 3-octave range (and clearly she hasn’t), she’s not gonna hit that high part at the end. Besides, that was Tyler’s interp – I seriously doubt it was literally written that way.

JD, OTOH (and it pains me to say this because I loathe him) knows his weaknesses, and has been able to gloss over them for the most part – excepting “We Are The Champions” of course. (Yeah, sure, his missed notes on the Foreigner song were on purpose. I believe it. *cough*)

As for Jordis’ performance ability…eh. I think she’s pretty bland, definitely low energy. Aside from the Bowie song, I’ve seen enough dead eyes on her to bring Carrie Underwear to mind. Also, she’s WAY too readable when she’s unhappy with herself. Don’t tell the audience when it’s bad, let them figure it out.

(edited to fix a brain fart)

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by geg6 on 08-29-05 at 04:29 PM
Of course, smoking is bad for you. Since when do rock and rollers care about that? This isn't AI and these people also spend a lot of time drinking alcohol, which is just as bad for you. I don't really think they much care how stupid you think it is. These people, for the most part, live the rock and roll lifestyle (many of them have IRL jobs bartending, which is pretty much the same thing).

I worked for over 12 years bartending in rock clubs in the Pittsburgh area and never met a single band that didn't have a majority of smokers as members. Some of these musicians and bands have gone on to make quite a name for themselves in the years since. Some of the smokers/musicians that I met or saw at a small bar before they hit it big: Jon Bon Jovi, Bruce Springsteen, John Mellencamp, Eddie Van Halen. There were more, but those are probably the most famous. All smokers. Almost all of them still are. They're just showing rock and roll musicians as they really are, bad habits and all.

I'm such a slut for the blues.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by riverrocker on 08-29-05 at 04:35 PM
Thanks to all of you for the insight--and the URL. It does help to hear from those who've actually 'been there, and/or done it/seen it.'

I liked your comment about "They're just showing rock and roll musicians as they really are, bad habits and all." I'd say that sums it up well.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by mocha madness on 08-29-05 at 06:54 PM
Very interesting comments, and the URL was very informative....it is interesting to note that Eddie VanHalen had a cancer problem (I think it was throat or lip cancer) in addition to having hip replacement surgery. John Mellencamp, while on a promotional tour a couple of years ago in Seattle had a heart attack....he blamed excessive coffee and cigarettes. I did not know that the "Boss" was a smoker...he has always been a favorite of mine, and I thought he was too smart to be a smoker.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by geg6 on 08-30-05 at 08:36 AM
Not sure about the Boss or Eddie anymore, but I know that Mellencamp still smokes despite open heart surgery. Just goes to show ya.

I'm such a slut for the blues.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by Tahj on 08-31-05 at 12:36 PM
You summed up everything I was thinking Geg.

It's too bad that smoking is so inherent in the music/rock culture, but there you have it.

One person that I notice it seems to really have affected is Whitney Houston (I know, she's not rock). It bothers me because she has such an amazing voice but she doesn't seem to take care of it, so songs she records in the future probably won't be as good, nor her performances, plus it will probably shorten her career. Her drug stuff isn't helping any either and that's something else rockers have to contend with. Seriously, with all the abuse they take it's a wonder they can sing at all.

Moves courtesy of Syren

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by Shypappy on 08-30-05 at 01:51 PM
I've been singing for about 17 years.
When I was young, I was a soprano in the Calgary boys choir, and then went on to sing in a number of different bands!

Like an idiot I've been seriously smoking for about 15 years now, and there's no doubt that smoking has slowly been killing my voice.
I can still sing well, but my range is shot! I haven't performed in a few years now, but If I did, I doubt I could make it through a show without ending up in a coughing fit!

I can't wait for the day I finally succeed in quitting. It will be interesting to see if I can ever get my range back!

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by youngatheart on 08-30-05 at 03:15 PM
I'm not a smoker and not a big fan of smoking but I've learned to be tolerant over the years. I couldn't help but notice, too, the number of scenes where the rockers are smoking and it does bother me, in spite of my "tolerance" I've built up over the years. My kids enjoy watching the show and my youngest daughter, age 11, said to me "Mom, why would a singer want to smoke? Don't they want to have fresh air in them so their voice stays nice?" This is coming from her experience of knowing people who have or had smoked and the long term results are less than appealing. I'm proud my daughter has enough sense to know that it's a nasty habit. But, knowing that the show is in prime time, I don't like seeing so much exposure with these rockers and their bad habit. I really don't care if it's acceptable to the world of rock and roll....it's one of those things that doesn't make sense. It just seems logical that these rockers would preserve the one asset that is making them successful.

Just my opinion....not trying to debate the issue.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by Loree on 08-30-05 at 05:28 PM
I heard that at Sunday's taped performance one of the things that INXS and Dave comment on is a note that MiG holds so well and that he is not a smoker.

JD has mentioned on his Blog that he is trying to quit smoking in the house.

Jordis, JD, Marty and Ty have all been seen smoking. I am not sure if Suzie smokes or not.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by Iam_Xtreme on 09-01-05 at 10:21 AM
They are human just like the rest of us and we all have bad habits (smoking, drinking, over eating - just to name a few). I do not watch the show to form opinions about them on whether they smoke or not I watch the show to hear them perform.

Signature Created By: tribephyl

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by Lisa0116 on 09-01-05 at 05:57 PM
Wow-smoking nazis are everywhere. Freedom-it is called freedom. I get really pissed about the "you can't smoke in the bar" thing. Tell me-why is it OK to drink and kill brain cells (which don't re-generate) but it is oh so horrid to disturb your lungs (which do re-generate)?? So sad.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by Tahj on 09-01-05 at 06:02 PM
Because second-hand smoke affects others around it detrimentally. If you want to destroy your lungs and brain cells it's fine as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

Moves courtesy of Syren

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by Lisa0116 on 09-02-05 at 11:24 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-02-05 AT 11:26 AM (EST)

And is it affecting you detrimentally?? Second hand smoke might be annoying, but it is not harmful.

Prove it!! You can't prove that second hand smoke causes cancer. Talcum powder causes cancer, asbestos, factory emissions, car emissions, cat litter, etc. Can you prove that even ONE case of cancer was caused by second hand smoke?? Can you prove it?? Of course, if you want to just believe what you are told like a good little citizen, you do believe it. I bet you think Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and killed Kennedy, too-don't you?? You believe that Marilyn Monroe overdosed, too??

Smoke and mirrors and you are snowed......

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by youngatheart on 09-02-05 at 11:41 AM
Lisa 0116 says...."And is it affecting you detrimentally?? Second hand smoke might be annoying, but it is not harmful."

Are you kidding me??? Where have you been? I have no intentions to debate this but I can't help but respond to this statement.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by trigirl on 09-02-05 at 09:34 AM
Right, the Freedom to do anything to your own body that you want. I don't care. I do care what happens to my body without my consent.

My kids never met their Grandmother the chainsmoker. That sucks.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by Lisa0116 on 09-02-05 at 04:43 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-02-05 AT 04:45 PM (EST)

Does that mean that you never have gone to any bars, restaurants, or concerts where people were smoking?? If you did then YOU have just contradicted yourself-you went where you could be damaged-on purpose and you paid to get in. My son has never met his grandfather who never smoked, either-but I guess other disorders that are perceived to be dangerous to no one but those that have them are not as horrible as a death in your family from chain smoking-right??? I guess bad things only happen to those who have to be around cigarettes. How judgemental and completely wrong. You must be from California.

Smoke em if you got em!!!

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by riverrocker on 09-02-05 at 09:02 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-02-05 AT 09:04 PM (EST)

Glad you enjoy smoke and smoking. You are certainly entitled to it; but if I were around you, I would exit the place when you lit up. My daddy died at age 53; he was a very heavy smoker. He had his first heart attack at age 48; no family history nor anything medical associated with it. Mom and I have lingering 'side effects' from breathing in all the second-hand smoke. No, I have never been to a bar or concert, or any place else, where I KNOW there will be smoking; when I've been in a place inadvertently, and there is smoke, I leave. I don't 'preach' or 'complain'; I just leave.

I know the people on Rock Star are just that...'people,' but when you try to make your living with something that can be affected adversely by smoking--namely your voice, you might want to 'consider' the advisability of pursuing that habit.

No argument here; just a different perspective.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by trigirl on 09-03-05 at 09:03 AM
Does that mean that you never have gone to any bars, restaurants, or concerts where people were smoking??

You are absolutley right. I chose to put myself in that situation many times....it's called 'Work'. I waitressed for years and that is why I have been out working for the Smokefree Workplace movement in our community which is now one of those lame ones you mentioned that does not have smoking in bars and restaurants anymore. There is a smoking area, its called the street.

The kids in my own kids class did a survey of the smoking habits of their parents. Of the 15 % that were smokers only 1 parent smoked in their own house. The rest smoked outside. Even on Rock Star, they only seem to smoke outside sitting around the patio table. So if smokers don't like to smoke in their own house or car, why is it okay in a bar?

Sorry that your kids lost a Grandparent too. I did not mean to infer that my children were more disadvantaged than yours.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by riverrocker on 09-04-05 at 02:50 PM
>Does that mean that you never
>have gone to any bars,
>restaurants, or concerts where people
>were smoking??

Correct. I've LEFT restaurants where the 'non-smoking' section was too close to 'smoking'--if the waitstaff couldn't reseat me. I have only ever been to three concerts; smoking was not permitted at any of them. I listen to music via 'venues' that will not cause me to become ill.

You are right about them--the competitors on Rock Star--being shown as smoking outside; many 'smokers' do not wish to smoke in their own houses. My stepson smokes; he goes outside; he also tries to 'cut back' when he visits us. He does smoke in his own apartment; however, it causes his wife to become very ill.

Personally, I always felt sorry for those who were subjected to odors--whether smoking or even heavy perfumes or whatever--when they were the 'innocent bystanders' so to speak...such as the waitstaff.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by Tahj on 09-03-05 at 02:51 PM
So, from your defensiveness, I take it you're a smoker. Since you seem to think there are no ill effects from secondhand smoke, you must smoke around your son. Is that true?

Moves courtesy of Syren

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by Lisa0116 on 09-09-05 at 05:11 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-09-05 AT 05:13 PM (EST)

Yep!! My parents smoked around me-I don't have any smoking related or lingering problems from it and my son doesn't suffer any. Myabe it is just psychosomatic on your part...hysterical smoking disease.

Oh yeah-I have worked in bars and restaurants and the smoke didn't bother me there either.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by Nootch on 09-09-05 at 07:15 AM
-Denis Leary
I am tired of hearing people chatter on and on about the negatives of smoking. I am sick and tired of hearing the endless reasons why smoking is bad. You know what....Alcohol is bad....Murder is bad....Terrorism is bad....F***ing hurricanes are bad!!!! We all are going to die!!! Unfortunately it is inevitable. If something, anything, gives you pleasure, why do you have to feel guilty about it. There are far worst things in this life than cigarrettes. (M. Jackson comes to mind.) I might die tomorrow from my ciggies, but I enjoyed 'em, and if I don't I'll live to smoke another day!!! Carpe...(cough)...(cough)....(cough)....di....(cough)....(COUGH).................(COUGH)....em!!!

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves"
Posted by ginger on 09-09-05 at 11:52 AM
Of course, now Dennis does antismoking commercials.

"Rescue Me" is a great show, BTW.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves - DAN SAVAGE"
Posted by LaLaLisa on 09-09-05 at 03:12 PM
From an add-on to his latest column. You all know Savage Love, right? Anyway, just thought he had an interesting take:


Perhaps I was too quick to urge CTQ to dump her smoking fetishist boyfriend. In the interest of full disclosure, I should cop to my bias: I find smoking revolting. It’s always been a deal-breaker for me, romantically speaking; it’s easier for me to picture myself making out with a woman than with a dude who smokes. My towering aversion to the sight and stench of cigarettes no doubt prevented me from considering other accommodations CTQ could make, GGG moves that would allow to have her health and the love of her smoking-fetishist boyfriend too.

Still, James2, I have to take exception to your cavalier attitude toward the health risks of smoking. Yes, we’re all going to die of something. But even if we set aside death, the other health impacts of smoking should be enough to inspire any sane person to quit. Smokers are likelier to be impotent; their faces are likelier to be covered in ghastly wrinkles; women who smoke and take birth control pills are likelier to have heart attacks; smokers’ teeth are likelier to fall out; smokers have poor circulation; smokers are likelier to have ulcers, heart disease, limited senses of taste and smell, etc. All of these things diminish quality of life for smokers even if they live long enough to die of something else. And then there’s the damage smokers do to the health of the nonsmokers in their lives. Children are especially vulnerable to the effects of secondhand smoke.

"RE: Smoking & Other Stupid Moves - DAN SAVAGE"
Posted by Lisa0116 on 09-09-05 at 05:24 PM
Smokers are likelier
>to be impotent; their faces
>are likelier to be covered
>in ghastly wrinkles; women who
>smoke and take birth control
>pills are likelier to have
>heart attacks; smokers’ teeth are
>likelier to fall out; smokers
>have poor circulation; smokers are
>likelier to have ulcers, heart
>disease, limited senses of taste
>and smell, etc. All of
>these things diminish quality of
>life for smokers even if
>they live long enough to
>die of something else. And
>then there’s the damage smokers
>do to the health of
>the nonsmokers in their lives.
>Children are especially vulnerable to
>the effects of secondhand smoke.

Well-most of that diatribe is vanity related-who cares about wrinkles?? I am not ashamed of growing older. And if you didn't sleep around the birth control thing would be an issue. My teeth are all fine and dandy, my blood pressure is low, my circulation is great. Prove that it is harmful-prove that none of the studies had any participants (who supposedly died of second hand smoking related illness) had no cats, never used talcum powder, never were exposed to toxic fumes from industry, never were exposed to city bus fumes, never exposed to asbestos, had perfectly clean of mold houses, etc.

I prefer to support my local tobacco farmer.....

Now, let's be realistic about musicians-what percentage of the top 100 bands have members who smoke???

I can spot the california granola people a mile off.....Glad my state doesn't behave that way.....

"Ha Ha Lisa"
Posted by trigirl on 09-13-05 at 12:28 PM
You had me goin' for a little while. Thanks for the laughs.