Great game! Great F2! Great winner!

Thanks again, tribe!

Okay. We have a chance to go ahead and discuss some of the thoughts behind some of the participating survivors in this 2nd season of 2nd chances.
Where we welcomed 20 past survivor winners to bear the scrutiny and mutiny of their fans.
The following is meant to spur a little conversation regarding the outcome (and the antics leading up to it) of the 2nd Chances Tournament.
I begin with some interesting PTTE statistics...

Correct placements by Survivor:
6 correct placements
Vecepia

4 correct placements
Aras ~ Brian

2 correct placements
Bob ~ Danni ~ Jud ~ Jenna ~ Rob

1 correct placement
Amber ~ Chris~ JT ~ Richard ~ Todd ~ Tom

0 correct placements
Earl ~ Ethan ~ Natalie ~ Parvati ~ Tina ~ Yul

Correct Placements by Player:
5 correct placements
EPMB

4 correct placements
Corvis ~ CTgirl ~ suzzee ~ taffnic

3 correct placements
D'Abby ~ michel

2 correct placements
Belle

1 correct placement
vince

0 correct placements
Spot

PTTE Game OVERALL Totals:
EPMB ~ 31
CTgirl ~ 40
belle ~ 42
michel ~ 42
Corvis ~ 44
D'Abby ~ 56
suzzee ~ 64
vince ~ 75
taffnic ~ 78
Spot ~ 80

* First off, A teal-colored Shout-Out to Spot! Your PTTE performance is now favorably legendary to a loser-lover like me. I strive to achieve what you accomplished. Excellent job!
* A hearty congrats to EPMB. While he didn't exactly dictate the outcome, he was seemingly hyper-aware of the eventual outcome.
* Speaking of hyper-aware of the eventual outcome. suzzee was the only player to place Todd in the winner's spot.
* As noted in the threads, the PTTEs quickly went to the wayside in favor of strategies I wasn't quite sure of. So...

Topic #1: How did the PTTEs figure into your strategy? Did the PTTE perk ruin your experience or heighten it?

As a host, pre-determined questions/answers are preferred over last-minute reveals.
The thought behind the whole advent of the PTTE perk was to drive excitement by adding the ability to make a solo move, changing the outcome, through that same pre-determined question/answer.
With other games (say Anti-boot or LoserLodge) that can be acheived without it affecting the WHOLE game.
While secretly I was wishing for EPMB to topple everyone else. When it actually happened it saddened me a bit.
However, and as stated in the thread elsewhere. I LOVED the Overall Outcome.
Todd winning was great. Todd and Danni in F2 was great. Tom and Tina getting thrown into a volcano was great.

Topic #2: Who would have been YOUR ultimate F2? Were you as happy with this outcome as I was?

Some interesting tid-bits, statistically speaking...
* Todd received exactly ZERO votes against at each of the 4 tribal councils he went to, until the Final Tribal where he won with 6 votes.
* Danni also received ZERO votes against but did receive 8 votes for keeping her at F4/F3 and received 4 votes for at Final Tribal Council.
* Vecepia and Jud were both voted out their first times at tribal council.
* Aras, Chris and Earl all acheived the most tribal council visits with 5 each.
* Aras was the ONLY unanimous tribal council vote.
* Tina and Tom were the only 2 survivors to lose the game without being voted out at tribal council.
* Natalie and Rob were the only two survivors to lose the game by Player's Choice.

Topic #3: Which survivors did you really think would do better than they did? Which survivor lasted way longer than you thought they would?

I'm a little surprised at Vecepia's exit. I'm also surprised Parvati didn't last a lot longer.
I'm NOT surprised at Brian's quick exit but really thought Aras and Richard would have fared better.
I am eternally bored with Yul and frankly can't stand Tom. So seeing them exit before F3 was joyous. (Especially joyful over the Tom jumping into a volcano image.)

Topic #4: I can't say as this will be the end of Survivor 2nd Chances. So with the Top 5 non-winners (congrats, Stephen) and the 2nd 2nd winner (Congrats Todd) out of the way, what's next?
So, who (or what) would you like to see given another chance at winning survivor?

I have first 5 boots slated for a future season but does that even interest anyone? I would love to hold a cold weather version.
If you could hand pick any theme or survivors, who or what would it be and where would you hold it?
Let's brainstorm a bit.

Why did Yul eternally bore you? Personally, I loved him!

I'd like to see Kelly B. have a second chance. I thought she never got a fair shake. If she's one of the first 5 boots (I forgot if she was or wasn't), then I'd be happy to have the first 5 boots back.

Maybe I can give my opinion on why Yul is regarded by many as being boring: He was probably the smartest man ever to play survivor but he was more or less a game-bot. Every conversation he had was about the game and the only times he gave us a laugh was when he danced with the two local women at their village and when he told Jeff about elephants being unable to climb trees. Not much fun and Cook islands is considered by some as the seasons with the fewest laughs.

thanks for chiming in michel. I can concur with your interpretation.
The Cook Islands, for me, was more interesting outside of the storyline of the beleagured Yul, Ozzy, Sundra and Becky. As an alliance, they were boring. The 4 of them made an underdog comeback somehow uninteresting to watch. And I would owe their longevity more to the in-fighting of the dominant tribe than the 'physical prowess' of Ozzy or the 'strategic mastery' of Yul. Shooting fish in a barrel isn't fun to watch.

Ah, I see. I think I liked Yul in part because he was Asian American (I have a soft spot for them) and because I thought he'd be a potential winner. I don't mind that he wasn't very humorous -- he was focused on the game and I appreciated that.

Anyway, some of the other thoughts:

*Topic #1: How did the PTTEs figure into your strategy? Did the PTTE perk ruin your experience or heighten it?*

The PTTE's didn't figure into my strategy except towards the end. However, the PTTE perk did heighten the experience because it allowed me to take a little revenge on those who voted to keep Boston Rob around and got rid of Yul instead.

Intriguingly, my original plan was to keep Boston Rob till the Final 3. But then Michel realized how much of a threat he was to beat Danni & Yul so he convinced me to target Boston Rob first. Alas, it didn't entirely work but I did get my revenge in the end! In retrospect, I should've tried to work with Michel to get an alliance of people who wanted Boston Rob out earlier.

*Topic #2: Who would have been YOUR ultimate F2? Were you as happy with this outcome as I was?*

Not quite. As I've said before -- a thousand times, in fact -- I'd rather have had Yul in the Final 2 (actually, Final 3). I'd probably have had Danni & Yul as my Final 2 with Yul winning the whole thing.

*Topic #3: Which survivors did you really think would do better than they did? Which survivor lasted way longer than you thought they would?*

I think Todd lasted a little longer than I thought he would. But overall, I didn't think too much about which Survivors would do better or which ones lasted way longer.

*Topic #4: I can't say as this will be the end of Survivor 2nd Chances. So with the Top 5 non-winners (congrats, Stephen) and the 2nd 2nd winner (Congrats Todd) out of the way, what's next?
So, who (or what) would you like to see given another chance at winning survivor?*

As I said, I'd like to have Kelly B. as a returning player. I'd like to see Michelle from Fiji have a second chance as well -- and Cirie. I always thought she was the best person to never win.

I initially tried voting by my PTTE, but since I had Richard placed for the immediate heave-ho and didn't get it for 3 straight TCs... I opted to say hell with that idea and try to keep whoever I could in the alliance that I had somewhat formed with CTgirl and D'Abby.

As far as Todd winning? As I said in my FTC vote: Meh.

First 5 should be interesting, especially since I have at least one person who I thought got insta-shafted because of circumstances a little beyond her control that her tribe wasn't fully aware of, I imagine...

And please put them somewhere cold, they won't ever do it in real life, so we need someone to suffer...

Would Danni have been your favorite choice?
Or can I assume your original PTTE contained your favorites? (Bob/Rob/Yul)

I dunno. I did like Danni, but wasn't as sure of her chances.

I opted to say hell with that idea and try to keep whoever I could in the alliance that I had somewhat formed with CTgirl and D'Abby.

Not sure if you knew, but I was actually in that kind-of-alliance too. D'Abby and I were in communication via Facebook since after the Parvati boot and were working together for several boots after that.

Well, the host didn't know.
I knew of CT and Dabs.
I knew of suze and mich.
That's it.
I thought everyone else was pretty much flying solo.

...Very interesting.

You still don't know the half of it....

I love it! Zero correct placements? How superbly pathetic!

How did the PTTEs figure into your strategy? Did the PTTE perk ruin your experience or heighten it?

I was at first playing to win the PTTE, but when Brian was voted out second, I knew that I didn't have a chance to win (or even place within the top half of the scoreboard). I then decided to play against my PTTE, but keep my top three (Rob, Todd, and Yul) for as long as possible. I was happy with any of them winning.

Who would have been YOUR ultimate F2? Were you as happy with this outcome as I was?

My ultimate F2 would have been Tom and JT, but I knew that they both would be threats by mid-game, so I kept them both as early post-merge boots in my PTTE. I'm very happy with the outcome; Todd is my third most favorite winner.

Which survivors did you really think would do better than they did? Which survivor lasted way longer than you thought they would?

I'm very surprised that Natalie didn't go early. I was expecting her to be within the first three people voted out. Michel's "Bring the less popular winners to the end" strategy made Earl's placement less shocking as it would have had their alliance not been in place.

I can't say as this will be the end of Survivor 2nd Chances. So with the Top 5 non-winners (congrats, Stephen) and the 2nd 2nd winner (Congrats Todd) out of the way, what's next?
So, who (or what) would you like to see given another chance at winning survivor?

I have first 5 boots slated for a future season but does that even interest anyone? I would love to hold a cold weather version.
If you could hand pick any theme or survivors, who or what would it be and where would you hold it?
Let's brainstorm a bit.

I would personally love to see a Physical vs. Mental vs. Social season given the game's emphasis to these three traits. The location of the season doesn't really matter to me--I'll participate regardless of the location and the challenges.

I'm intrigued. Physical vs. Mental vs. Social as an emphasis is definitely a key point.
Are you thinking of say choosing survivors based on those traits? Or moreso having the challenges themselves be more "physical v mental v social"?

Yes to both, I think, although I wonder how this will apply to challenges. I know people will vote to keep their favorites safe, regardless of whether they would perform well in the given challenge in real life. People who like Courtney for instance will probably try to keep her safe even when the challenge is something that would favor James.

I'd personally like to see who people think are the best players of Survivor given those three criteria, pit them against each other, and see who would come out on top. Will people vote for their favorite player, or will they base their vote on which of the three they think are the most important trait in a Survivor (or which is the hottest player left in the game)?

Looking back, I think my favorite finales in the game were the ones with the finalists being the best of each trait:

Richard (Mental) vs. Kelly (Physical)
Tina (Social) vs. Colby (Physical)
Rob (Physical/Mental) vs. Amber (Social)
Yul (Mental) vs. Ozzy (Physical)
Amanda (Physical) vs. Parvati (Social) vs. Cirie (Mental)
JT (Physical) vs. Stephen (Mental)

We can even call it Survivor: PMS

The only problem is that you cannot separate social from strategy because being social is a strategy in itself and, on top of that, you need to be social to scheme.

Amber being "social" is simply saying she was more likeable than Rob.
I would certainly say Tina was strategic even if her strategy was to put together a small group of "good people" which is socializing.
Cirie is considered a mastermind because she underestands people better than anyone else and that is a social skill. She couldn't kill you if you didn't find her so charming.

I dunno, I guess I just view "mental" as a more active strategy (organizing boots, making decisions) and "social" as a more passive form of strategy (making friends but not necessarily making the decisions). They're certainly a deadly combination when applied together (Cirie, Parvati), but we've also had instances when the "thinkers" aren't necessarily social players (Kenny, Russell, Tracy to an extent) and vice-versa (Fabio, Natalie, Taj).

>I dunno, I guess I just
>view "mental" as a more
>active strategy (organizing boots, making
>decisions) and "social" as a
>more passive form of strategy
>(making friends but not necessarily
>making the decisions).

Whether active or passive, a strategy is a strategy. Game theory tells us that being a follower is just as valid as being a leader under the right circumstances. More people have been voted out for being too active than the opposite.

They're certainly
>a deadly combination when applied
>together (Cirie, Parvati), but we've
>also had instances when the
>"thinkers" aren't necessarily social players
>(Kenny, Russell, Tracy to an
>extent) and vice-versa (Fabio, Natalie,
>Taj).

Note that none of the non-social "thinkers" that you listed won while a couple of your viciversaed did win. Which strategy is better?

Huh? Why do we even need to discuss this? I never said anything about one strategy being better than the other. You said that they're nearly inseparable from each other, and I agree. All I'm saying is that there have been instances where one may be completely independent from the other.

And all I'm saying is that when mental and social games don't go hand in hand, when they are independant of each other, you get a failure. I couldn't support a schemer with a bad social game or a social player with no strategy. Social players without strategy include Gabe, Cindy and Flica so if those are the players in the next game, I'll pass.

Just some random thoughts here.

A good contestant should be able to empathize and have a feel for other people, not just fake interest. I think people generally know if someone is shining them on or really mean it.

One should really be able to listen to someone else, getting them to talk about themselves outside of the "game" (things that never make tv) would be extremely helpful in gauging what someone would do depending on ever changing circumstances.

When you listen to what others tell you and what you see you have the advantage of possibly linking two seemingly unrelated things or comments together to form the bigger picture. Sometimes it only takes that little bit to figure out which way to nudge someone or to make a course correction in your own plans to use it to your advantage.

Make sense? Although it helps to have a bit of luck and some athletic ability too.

Most important, to me, would be to have an iron will, tenacity, being able to observe objectively and I think the willingness to be flexible. I'm sure after the starvation and exhaustion sets it the brain is fuzzy but so is everyone else.

I think were I to ever be insane enough to try for the show, that would be what I would try to do.

Charter member of the Sarcasm Society