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"Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"

Posted by iloverob on 09-06-06 at 10:26 AM
Putting this here since it contains info not seen on tv.

Yesterday Will had a feeling he was going. But he didn't make an effort to try to talk Janelle out of it. He could have, I think by just being Will - 'Of course we told Erika those things; we had to keep her on our side til it was time for her to go, but it was never like that with you, yada, yada, yada'...But he didn't. This is what I think was going on in his head.... Prior to the show, Will and Boogie decided to do the show. According to Will he refused to do the show unless Boo was picked also. Will always said that he was in it to get Boogie to the end. But along the way, he got into the game again and was playing to win. And he was headed to winning.

The other day, Boogie kept snapping at Will that he had 'set it up well for HIMSELF' and making snappy remarks. So Will was torn imo. He wanted to win to prove he is the best player of all time, but he wanted Boogie to get the glory he was looking for (he doesn't need the money and they have discussed that it is all about the glory).

Sooooo, when Will realized that things were turning, I don't think he made the effort to change anything because that would be going against Boogie - Will and Boogie in the end = Will winning over Boogie. But he also had feelings for Janelle and was hoping that her feelings for him would make her vote Erika out - thus if Will ended up winning he could tell Boogie that he was ready to go out and didn't do anything to stop her from sending him out. When Janelle actually did send him out, he didn't know if he had been played all along by her or if she did have feelings for him. Her speech was kinda cold (which I don't blame her since at that point she thought she had been TOTALLY played) and I think it actually hurt his feelings.

I didn't see the morning show this a.m., but I heard that he seemed subdued and sent an 'I love you' to his girlfriend. I just think that he ended up giving up the game when he really didn't want to, he fell for Janelle and thinks she may have played him (or that she is hurt by his actions and he feels bad), and he believes he lost his girlfriend to boot. So what did he get out of this????? That's where I think he is.

Boogie thinks that Janelle and Erika need to take him to the end because neither one of them has a sure win unless they take him. I disagree....Janelle wins no matter which one she takes (she sent her competition home last night). Erika on the other hand has a chance of winning against Boogie, but she swore to Janelle on her mother that she'd take Janelle - we'll see...

I hope that Janelle and Will actually remain friends.


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Messages in this discussion
"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by LadyT on 09-06-06 at 10:31 AM
He admitted that both Janelle and he were playing each other. I agree with you, if Janelle is in the F2, she wins no matter what.

He did mention Erin a couple times by full name and say that he loved her. He looked really tired and he was charming. He said he was nervous about going to the sequester house. Asked Julie if he could go to her house


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by Wacko Jacko on 09-06-06 at 11:16 AM
I disagree about Will wanting to go out so Boogie could have the limelight. That would've made Boogie more of a target than he would've had Will been around. If Will wanted Boogie to win he could've manipulated the jury to vote for Boogie over himself. He could've handed the last HOH over to Boogie. There are many things he could've done....to give Boogie his moment. Believe me...if he was doing this for Boogie...Boogie did not seem happy about it.

As for Will, Will blew it. He is also a man of contradiction. Will blew it by not winning the POV. He says he threw it and if he did that was the dumbest move possible. Will says he purposely threw competitions because he did not want to be seen as the person who chooses who goes home....yet he always apologized for being the one who caused the boots. Which is it do you want to be the one responsible or not? Will got too confident that he was controlling Janelle (and Erika). He did not account for the possibility that the two hung out and smoked....smokers talk about a lot when they are togther everyone knows that.

But his major flaw was not winning this POV when winning it would not of hurt his chances in any way and winning it would've assured his safety. I am sure he felt comforatble at the time of the POV with Janelle...than he noticed Janelle drifting away afterwards. But if Will had won the POV he could've left the nominees the way they were. Then all he had to do was vote out Erika....she would've understood afterall she was close with Boogie not Will and knew Janelle was closer to Will. If Will had won the POV Erika and Janelle might not of talked about the 'CT 3'. It would've been a completely different game.

Such a shame Will did not use his noggin and as a result the best player ever ruined a remarkable run.


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by CantStandToLook on 09-06-06 at 11:36 AM
It was a long season, I suspect Will knew that Jani and Erika smoked together and would talk at some time. He's too smart not to. It was just his time to go as a result of Jani winning the Veto so not winning the Veto is what I would see as his downfall more than anything else.

"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by iloverob on 09-06-06 at 12:38 PM
I understand your point of view. I just can't get past that he didn't try very hard the night that Erika and Janelle talked - he knew something was up. And, though he didn't have a lot of time yesterday since they slept so late, he had enough time to at least try.

I also understand that Janelle wasn't giving him anything to work with - like admitting to him that Erika spilled the beans, but Will suspected anyway. All afternoon, I was thinking, please go work your magic and he didn't do anything - not even a twirl (LOL). It's just not like him to give up like that. So the above is just my opinion as to why....my only other guess is male pms? LOL

As far as Will not winning POV - I believe that is his ego - he wins by manipulating not by winning comps. If he did win, he'd want to be able to say that he not only won twice, but won both times without winning a competition. Playing Will's way is to assure that everyone wants to take you to the final 2, therefore you don't have to win comps/POV. He just seemed to let go of his game at the end.


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by yamihooked on 09-06-06 at 05:47 PM
It seemed he may have started giving up several days ago.

I don't know if it was before or after the veto, but when he called Janelle a "psycho #####" and then switched it to "sweetheart", it seemed like he was losing control.


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by JoshInSGV on 09-06-06 at 07:02 PM
I think allowing the girls to talk was not only Will's mistake, it was also Boogie's. Both of them dropped the ball. The whole point of Operation Double Date was for Mike to romance Erika, while Will kept Janelle busy with the flirtmance. By doing this, Will and Boogie would ensure that the women didn't have a moment to talk and compare notes. They both failed to keep up with their own strategy.

What I found amazing is something that came up in the live feeds, but not on the show. Before the girls went up to the HOH room to talk strategy (this was shown on TV), they were having a conversation downstairs and Boogie caught them. Boogie actually told Janelle and Erika to go up to the HOH room if they needed to talk in private. WTF???? Why would you do that?? Why would you allow these two women to talk to each other and figure out that they are being played. That was a very sloppy mistake and it came back to haunt them. This was Chilltown's game to lose and they sure made a mess of everything somehow.


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by CantStandToLook on 09-06-06 at 11:14 AM
I like your synopsis. I guess we'll find out at the reunion??


Friendship is like peeing your pants, everyone can see it, but only you can feel the true warmth


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by Wacko Jacko on 09-06-06 at 11:41 AM
>Boogie thinks that Janelle and Erika
>need to take him to
>the end because neither one
>of them has a sure
>win unless they take him.
> I disagree....Janelle wins no
>matter which one she takes
>(she sent her competition home
>last night). Erika on
>the other hand has a
>chance of winning against Boogie,
>but she swore to Janelle
>on her mother that she'd
>take Janelle - we'll see...

Again, I could not disagree with you more. What makes you think it is a sure victory against Boogie? Will and Boogie controlled the entire house up until the 11th house. A lot of Boogies strategy was similar to Will's except Boogie was smart enough to win the HOH when it was very important. Boogie did not have the same target as Will on his back either so he did not have to say please send me home now.....his strategy was to convince others not to send Will home even though Will told them he wanted too. The two were a team and honestly I see Boogie beating either Erika or Janelle in the finals....he would've beaten them for sure had it not been that the girls in the 11th hour figured out the lies they had been told....but if I were on the jury I may think the girls were stupid for too long.


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by iloverob on 09-06-06 at 12:44 PM
I always saw Boogie as another puppet on Will's strings. I guess I just thought everyone else saw it that way too (including the people on the jury). I see now that everyone doesn't see it that way which will make the end show more interesting if Boogie is there, I guess - unless it is Boogie and Erika in the end cause I just won't bother to watch.

"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by Miami Joe on 09-06-06 at 03:56 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-06-06 AT 03:57 PM (EST)


> The two were a
>team and honestly I see
>Boogie beating either Erika or
>Janelle in the finals....

Huh??? I am not so sure about that.

Who is going to vote for Boogie if he makes it to the final 2?

George? No, he will vote for either girl.
Danielle? Yes, but only if Erika is also in the finals.
Marcellas? No, he will vote for either girl.
Howie? Heck No, never, ever.
James? Maybe Yes, maybe No.
Will? Yes, that's his buddy.
Erika or Janelle? Not after what they have talked about in the past couple of days, only possible if one backstabs the other and takes Boogie to the finals.

It does not look good for Boogie to win the big money.


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by rjrabbit on 09-06-06 at 09:38 PM
I agree. There's not a scenario where booger can win. No WAY! J will win against booger or Erika.

Fembots
by Tribe: L.O.J., One for all, all for Janelle!

"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by maryellennaco on 09-06-06 at 12:16 PM
I saw him on the Early Show and he DID seem quite subdued. Said something like "I love you Erin" and asked Julie if she could put in the good word for him "since Erin really admires you, Julie". God, he is smarmy. That smirky smile... I think that's the worst part of this game if you constantly are lying and manipulating; after it's all over, how can people trust what you're saying??? And to think that Boogie thinks he's winning it all just cracks me up. Unless he plays his azz off in the next two comps, he's toast. He might be the last one to know that, but.....

"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by fedcamper on 09-07-06 at 05:54 AM
If Will said Erin really admires Julie, she no doubt can't stand her and they will have many happy hours playing the tape of Julie being played! Sweet revenge, Sweetheart!

"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by ginger on 09-06-06 at 12:26 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-06-06 AT 12:26 PM (EST)


I will always, always love Will for saying that he and Julie had "chemistry." That was a golden moment and showed remarkable poise (because he was stunned, IMHO...his head saw the possibility but his ego, perhaps, did not).

I am ambivalent about the whole Erin thing. There, I said it.



"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by Issis257 on 09-06-06 at 02:33 PM
When Ericka went to the DR and Boogie and Jani were alone Boogie told Jani that he thought that Will had real feelings for her and that there was something there. I thought he sounded sincere. I don't know. It started out as a game and as far as I could see with the looks and handholding etc it turned into something else but they were not at liberty to do anything about it because of their significant others. I think Will does love Erin, not so sure that Jani loves her BF but I think that Will met someone with the qualities he admires in Erin and just didn't know what to do with it and hid his feelings behind the game. He was conflicted for sure. In an interview he did say that him and Erin have alot to work out and that there are some trust issues now.
I don't think he ever expected to have chemistry with anyone the way he had with Jani. I think his feelings are hurt, I mean her goodby message could've been a little warmer after all that time they spent together. It is a game after all. The reunion will not shed any light on any of this because I don't think they will want anything to be public. Whatever is going to happen one way or the other will happen behind the scenes once they go back to their normal life.

"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by JoshInSGV on 09-06-06 at 07:14 PM
I don't understand what you mean by saying that Janelle's message to Will could have been "warmer". I thought her message was very sincere. She stated that she considers him a friend and that she hopes that their friendship is not spoiled because she evicted him. I do think Will's ego got hurt in his eviction. In his exit interview with Julie, he stated that Janelle "would probably regret her decision". Are you kidding me?? Why should she regret evicting him? It's not like she was gonna win standing next to him at the end. Janella has much better odds of winning standing next to Boogie or Erika. I think this was probably Will's bruised ego doing the talking. I think down the road, Will is the one that will realize that Janelle's best option was to kick him out the way she did.

"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by MizJazmine on 09-06-06 at 05:59 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-06-06 AT 06:03 PM (EST)

I don't know quite what it is myself, but I do feel like something was "off" here. I was surprised that Will didn't win the HOH because IMO Will has a mind like a steel trap and he's VERY observant of people not to mention his profession. That HOH was right up his ally IMO and for me it just didn't make sense that he didn't win it.

I know this is contrary to popular opinion, but I do think on some level Will threw it and I do think Janelle got next to Will. I do think Will liked Janelle, how much I don't know but there are only a coupla people that Will has sincerely complemented in this game and Janelle is one of them.

IMO "something" happened here...I don't know what, but it did. Will's "departure" was a little too subdued for me. It's hard for me to explain it, but I think Will did expose himself to Janelle like a week or so agao. I think he did this thing like, "this is who I am, this is how I play the game, now you be stupid if you wanna be, but you will have no one to blame but yourself" and Janelle got it...finally! And I think Erika saying all the stuff she did, just really sealed Will's fate.

I think the whole time Will was sitting there in that house, he was looking at everybody like how can you all let me be here knowing I won before. How stupid can you be? So I think in Janelle putting Will out that SHE has his respect above everybody elses because she did finally get it.

Whew...thanks for letting me get that outta my system!


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by Quest on 09-06-06 at 06:06 PM
I'm new here but have been reading the boards for weeks now and a fan of the show.

What I will say is this. Yes, Will clearly didn't try to change Janelle's mind. Normally he would have made every attempt to change her mind towards what he wanted but he made little or no effort to do so.

Why will always remain a matter of speculation. Janelle fans will believe it's because he "knew" Janelle outwitted her. Erika fans will think similar thoughts. Will fans will prefer to think that he did it for Boogie.

For whatever reason, Will appears to have given up. Maybe he was tired, felt as he said that you can only tell so many lies before people catch on, or something else. But he behaved decidedly unWill like.

I am of the opinion that he just plain gave up and decided to go.


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by Miami Joe on 09-06-06 at 06:16 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-06-06 AT 06:16 PM (EST)

Or perhaps, he gave up because he may have started having real feelings for Janelle and he thought it was better to allow Janelle to vote him out without his typical effort to convince her to do otherwise. Instead of staying in the house longer and possibly giving in to the temptation of kissing Janelle for real, not just a little kiss, like the one she gave him after she won the POV.

When he said last night, that Janelle had made a big mistake by voting him off, maybe he was trying to say that his feelings for her had changed. Maybe he was ready for her to make the next move in their flirtmance or showmance?

This is all speculation right now, but I guess we will find out for sure in a few weeks, after the show is over.


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by Quest on 09-06-06 at 06:28 PM
I'm certain there is a reason why he didn't try to change Janelle's mind, but so far Will hasn't given it. Maybe he really doesn't know himself why. From what was shown he seem to accept readily that he was going. In all other occasions, he tried like hell to keep in the house.

"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by Issis257 on 09-06-06 at 07:01 PM
Miami Joe I agree with everything you said. Also I think he was embarrassed (sp) that she confronted him when she asked him if it was true that he had called her a slut and he just didn't want to continue hurting her and also he knows she will find out it was true that he did call her a slut. Somehow maybe the game was not fun anymore. We'll see what happens.

"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by KristalClear on 09-06-06 at 09:26 PM
I think when Boogie told Will that he had set it all up for HIMSELF to look good, it made Will realize that he was the one that did all the scheming and worked hard directing Boogie to do his share, too, and if Boogie was gonna get ugly about it now, then fine, take it from here and see where you land. Will didn't have anything to prove and if he was doing it for Boogie and this was the thanks he got for all his help, then he'll just step aside and see where Boogie lands. I think the real reason he stopped schmoozing and scheming was all due to Boogie and his smart remark to him, which apparently stung. Why else would he tell Janelle "this is how I play the game, don't be stupid...". It was his way of letting her know, his feelings were not real, he was just playing her, and to do what she had to do, in other words, boot him and let Boogie land where he lands.

"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by Issis257 on 09-06-06 at 10:12 PM
I semi agree with you KristalClear and the thing with Boogie may be true but I think it was a combination of both. I still think he had developed feelings for Jani. There is an excellent Open Letter to Will By Laura Tucker on the Realityshack.com web site you should read. It's really good. Here's the link.
http://www.realityshack.com/modules/magazine/article.php?articleid=249

What do you think?


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by KristalClear on 09-06-06 at 11:13 PM
>I semi agree with you KristalClear
>and the thing with Boogie
>may be true but I
>think it was a combination
>of both. I still think
>he had developed feelings for
>Jani. There is an excellent
>Open Letter to Will By
>Laura Tucker on the Realityshack.com
>web site you should read.
>It's really good. Here's the
>link.
>http://www.realityshack.com/modules/magazine/article.php?articleid=249
>
>What do you think?


The letter in thatlink was well written and I do agree that it was a combination of both. In Will's interview on House Calls he said Erin was one of the first calls he made, and there is tension and they're trying to work it out, and later in the show when asked about Erin again, he said he hopes she takes him back, so Erin evidently thought it was more than just his game and his flirting was more than just flirting, too.

He did have Janelle wrapped, and she would've kept him (looking for love in all the wrong places)and nothing would have changed IF Erika hadn't unloaded to her and those two compared notes. Do you think Erika unloaded just to save herself? I don't. Erika doesn't expect to win this game, she would've been happy sending Boogie to 1st and being his girlfriend. I think she figured those 2 guys out and "hell hath no fury...". And I do think she will continue to help Janelle get to final 2 and will be satisfied with second place as long as it's not Boogie who gets 1st. If Boogie had done what Will told him to, which was to continue to showmance Erika, Erika would've just left quietly, thinking her "boyfriend-Boogie-soon-to-be-daddy-to-her-children-stud-muffin" was gonna bring home the bacon....If you remember, Boogie was getting aggrivated with Will telling him over and over to showmance her more than he was, and started speaking back to Will and whining about having to showmance her anymore. I still say the icebreaker was when Boogie told Will that he set it all up pretty nicely for HIMSELF. That's when Will decided to just stop the game-play just to see where Boogie landed. I'm sure Will was not only aggrivated by the smart comment but also by the fact that Boogie just didn't get it that he HAD to continue to showmance Erika in order for the two of them to end up in the final three, because if he had, Erika and Janelle would've remained pitted against each other and Janelle would've voted with her heart, not her head and voted out Erika and kept Will. That was their plan.

Will knew his gig was up and he wasn't surprised when evicted, because he already knew the damage was done because Boogie wouldn't cooperate and hold up his end of the deal. However, Boogie's face of total shock and amazement only makes it blatantly obvious that he really didn't see the big picture that Will was trying to show him all along.


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by MizJazmine on 09-06-06 at 10:15 PM
>I think the real reason he
>stopped schmoozing and scheming was
>all due to Boogie and
>his smart remark to him,
>which apparently stung. Why
>else would he tell Janelle
>"this is how I play
>the game, don't be stupid...".
> It was his way
>of letting her know, his
>feelings were not real, he
>was just playing her, and
>to do what she had
>to do, in other words,
>boot him and let Boogie
>land where he lands.


I'm feeling some of what you're saying here...something happened that's for sure. Like somebody said up thread Will's behavior was very unWill...I agree, and he did give a heads up to Janelle at least that's the way I feel about it....


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by DrKegel on 09-09-06 at 05:04 PM

Have a slightly different take on this.

Dr. Will made a mistake when he decided to take Janelle to the Final Four. A big mistake. That's why I said he'd lost the game by making that really stupid, stupid, stupid move of removing James ... and then Danielle. Sometimes in chess if you make a wrong move, it takes awhile to catch up with you, but it does. I was perfectly willing to assume that I had incorrectly sized things up, but unfortunately I was not mistaken. The question is why did Dr. Will make this really stupid move just to have Janelle hang around? Think it's partially this:

Dr. Will was doing things outside the parameter of the game with Janelle. Yes, flirting was a part of getting her on his side, but he was conducting an experiment of how far you could go ... and not in a nice way. Deliberately trying to make her look foolish which Janelle hates. (Don't blame her.) He seemed to be taking a perverse pleasure in it also. Really did not appreciate him doing this.

Don't like the game Janelle played this time around. She had absolutely no game plan and she too made one of those strategically stupid moves - only early on. Remember when she was going to evict Booger? She was HOH but instead of doing that, she formed a secret alliance with Chill Town just because they said they would vote for whoever she said the next time. This not only kept Booger in the game, it led to the friction between James and Janelle causing James to align with Danielle. Remember Janelle lying to James about who they were keeping the veto from in the POV game? Remember Howie spilling the beans and calling her out? And this was just after Janelle had pressed James to scumbag Jasz after James assured Jasz he was safe.

Janelle was right that what comes around goes around. She made many, many wrong moves and paid the price by leaving the game this time falling for what Erika said? Janelle! You really need to stop this! Play the game, sister! Also I felt it was ultimately ironic that Will broke his thumb just before his eviction. He should have stopped whatever compelled him to act so foolishly and stuck to his original gameplan. He'd still be in the house and just a few days short of being $500,000 richer.

Think this is why he was so resigned. A puppet master knows when they've made a mistake. He also is not really a bad guy and absorbed whatever the consequences were for his actions.

Bad Will. Very bad.


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by Quest on 09-09-06 at 09:32 PM
Here's a thought.

Will can't win competitions for the life of him. If Janelle had kept Will and evicted Erika, how would it have played out?

The mountain competition also depended on upper body strength. Boogie could have won it if he wasn't so angry. Either him or Janelle would have definitely won it, not Will with his broken thumb.

Say for the sake of argument, Janelle won that Mountain comp. Then it's Will against Boogie. Again, with Will's sore thumb Boogie would have won. Again, considering Will's past performances, I doubt he would have even known the order of the former Big Brother winners.

Then it's the final comp. Let's say it was definitely between Janelle and Boogie. Too close to call. Janelle was good at those type of games, be it memory or guessing. Boogie could have won either.

ButI think Janelle would have had a great chance of winning if Will had remained. Let's face facts, Boogie, Erika and Will would have evicted her if she had not won HOH that last time. But she would have had a chance to stay in the comp if Will was there.


"RE: Will's reaction to getting canned and other stuff"
Posted by DrKegel on 09-10-06 at 10:10 PM

<Will can't win competitions for the life of him. If Janelle had kept Will and evicted Erika, how would it have played out?

The mountain competition also depended on upper body strength. Boogie could have won it if he wasn't so angry. Either him or Janelle would have definitely won it, not Will with his broken thumb.

Say for the sake of argument, Janelle won that Mountain comp. Then it's Will against Boogie. Again, with Will's sore thumb Boogie would have won.>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You make an excellent point about Will's broken thumb. Janelle still could have had her moment when she called Will out on his behavior and yet kept him in the game since she had the best chance of beating him in a physical competition. Probably a mental one also since Will did not display the best skills ever. Yeah, I know he said he didn't want to win, but I watched him against Erika. Don't believe for a moment he didn't want that POV. He's got the broken thumb to prove it.

Janelle should have booted Erika or Boogie based on their winning comps.

Good thinking.