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"Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-17-05 at 07:03 PM
This is a response to a question posed by lydia in Live Feeds. My answer has nothing to with Live Feeds and represents something I've been wanting to say about this season.

lydia wrote:
>The past three seasons have been full of "weasels", as you call them. How about the fact that an alliance was formed and noone was swayed by the other side as each kept to themselves throwing insults back and forth, with the central alliance keeper having the ability to get the others to take out the other side?

This is not to pick on lydia but to quote what I think is a reasonable question that several newer posters have asked who seem to be confused about why 99% of this board's regular posters loathe the FS alliance and rooted for the Jedi. Are we all just reinforcing our own group of bashers? Are we haters for no reason? I don't think so, and here's why.

I was thinking about this alliance question last night before it was asked:
what makes the FS alliance so loathsome and disgusting compared to Tagi or Ogakor or Boran, or any of the Survivor seasons where a strong alliance held? I have nothing against strong successful alliances per se.

Yet with the FS alliance: I hate it, most people here hate it, and there's been no lack of saying why. But how do they differ from past alliances that don't make people so much want to gag and puke on a minute by minute basis.

The dominant alliances I mentioned from Survivor held together as an acknowledged game strategy, pure and simple. They made a pact to go to the end prior to the merge, at least Tagi and Boran did. (Ogakor never sealed a deal with Jerri and Amber.)They all were out front about being there to win. They didn't pretend that they were just playing to stay in long enough to go to the cushy jury house.

They didn't act like they achieved dominance because they were Superior Beings. As Tina said, "I'm here because of a little bit of stategy and a whole lot of luck."

They didn't revile the players not in the alliance. They didn't fortify the alliance by not talking to the others, not sharing, by rubbing it in their face, or by camping out in a superior private shelter provided by the producers that they regarded as their own property even though the right to use it was temporary.

They didn't hold the alliance together with hatred of others and pretend that the core was love. They made friends with the other players like Lis and Rodger and Tbird and Lil Kim and they were SORRY to let good people go. Sometimes they were happy to let annoying players go, or happy to have eliminated a strong competitor, but it was never: great, one less EVIL person in our camp!

*Except when they bounced Jerri, Keith did sing "ding dong the witch is dead* but that would be more like the FS bouncing one of their own for being annoying, which never happened, and we were singing along at home*

The FS epitomize the so-called popular clique of kids in junior high and high school who didn't like anyone who didn't conform to the group. Anyone who is really intelligent or individualistic or creative threatens them, but they won't admit that.

The Jedi epitomize a bunch of individuals who are brought together when they find themselves labeled as outsiders by the vicious clique: I guess a lot of us here relate to the Rebel Alliance. (Anyone notice that the blonde bombshell Janie reads a lot and also reads music and plays it by ear? Michael is an artist and Kaysar a graphic designer?)

Sure the Jedi indulged in making fun of the silly FS who camped out in the HOH room with their silly creepy Crappy shrine staring at the spy screen. But the Jedi only struck back verbally after the FS had become too noxious to bear in silence.

The FS liked to say they talk about their lives and don't trash-talk other people. Every conversation that started out about their lives turned into: see what nice lives and families WE have; WE are good honest deserving people; SHE is so evil, SHE could never want to have a baby; SHE has a dog and a MOM like a regular human being? SHE is so fake but all my fake parts are fake for some better reason; SHE had sex with someone she only knew for a week; SHE must have made up having a boyfriend; SHE must have cheated to win the challenge; BB hates us; America hates us, WHY? WHY? WAAH! WAAH!

To quote my son who was watching:
"Call for the Waaaambulance and take them away."

If you watched the Live Feeds you would see that Howie, Rachel, Janie, Kaysar rallied themselves to compete and practiced competition skills, and made up a nickname or two as a way of dismissing the non-stop nya nya nya nya vibes coming from the HOH campers. Juvenile tricks begot juvenile antics. Sure.

But compare The Nerd Herd and Girl Scout Troop to calling Janie, EVIL, SOULESS, FAKE, MEAN, HABITUAL LIAR, CHEATER, HO, SKANK. Or calling gentlemanly Kaysar a potential TERRORIST. That's some scary bigotry coming out of the mouth of someone who is part of an ethnic minority and should know better!

What ended up happening here is that posters wanted so much to be able to grab these pathetic losers and shake them and wake them from their delusion that America ADMIRES their BS--but we couldn't make ourselves heard except through America's Choice. And then the Fiendship didn't get even that message and chose to view the choice as a BB conspiracy and a dozen other reasons--anything other than the simple fact that we can't stand them.

So when JBLO thought she was such hot shit for backstabbing Kaysar, we LOVED it when Howie and Janie went off. They were going off for all the people out here who wished they could tell these guys they were bitches. Are we normally mean people? (Only as satirists, we're not sadistic.) Is Howie a mean person? No. He was just channeling some kind of mass frustration at having to deal with people who won't even admit they lied and reneged on a deal.

You know what I mean?

As for Maggie, or "the central alliance keeper" as you put it. Keeper is about right! She uses hateful techniques reminiscent of cult leaders and she uses hateful techniques that were used by the Nazis.

She created a Good Us and an Evil Them. A Clean Us and a Dirty Them. She ostracized them; she lied to make them seem like liars; she led the gullible but still culpable Ivette and let Ivette brainwash April into the following Nazi-type mentality: the Others have no souls, are DIRTY, EVIL, and otherwise less than full human beings. Some of the names for the Others: Terrorist, Prostitute, Shady gray hag, Old pervert, Sexual predator, Satan (James).

Maggie fostered the idea that it was torture to have to be in the same house with them. Flashback to Hitler's Germany anyone? I swear if the rules allowed for the HOH winners to round up the Jedi and put them in a special isolation room for a week on PB&J the FS would have been ecstatic and seen it as divine intervention!

Don't even get me started on the "God is on our side guiding everything that happens in the house for a reason" crap. Not to mention "Don't worry, even if we lose, God will punish the evil ones and take away whatever they win." I personally watched them spew this over and over.

Have you EVER seen Howie and Janelle saying, oh well, if Ivette wins hopefully her new house will burn down? April said that about Janie!

Compare that to Howie who always said: they beat me fair and square and they deserve it. Or Rachel saying, "we blew it. We made serious mistakes. Or Janie saying she lost a competition because she sucks.

As for Keeper Maggie: she says she loves them and is their bestest friend. A true friend would have mediated when her friends started to fight with each other. Instead, Maggie only intervened when the fighting veered towards something that could lead to a critique of how Maggie acted. Instead of encouraging people to work through their differences she shut them down by saying it was bad to talk about such things.

She did nothing to promote mental health, only to put her "friends" under a kind of sick spell. One day April woke up from the spell! Maggie made sure all April's blame deflected onto Ivette. Maggie's love gives people the creeps.

For those of you who read the whole Narnia series: in the Silver Chair, there's a witch with a magic fire and an instrument that she strums while she talks soothingly to the protagonists who have come to rescue the Prince. She makes them think that she has to keep the Prince restrained because HE is dangerous and crazy and suddenly they don't know what is true any more.

The kids and the Marshwiggle keep trying to resist and she takes whatever they say and twists into a bad logic that the reader sees is bad, and the reader has to watch helplessly going no! no! don't listen to her! Finally the spell gets broken because the Marshwiggle sticks his foot in the fire so that sheer PAIN will snap him out of it.

Well, listening to Magwitch soothe and stroke her little sheep so they would stay in the fold made me remember that scene.

Of course you are taking me to F2. If you didn't and won, that would be DIRTY MONEY. You wouldn't enjoy DIRTY MONEY, would you Ivette?" "Oh no, of course not. I would never want DIRTY MONEY. My family wouldn't like it if I took DIRTY MONEY. There was never any question in my mind I would take you." Barf.

A lot of us are looking forward to seeing them snap out of it.
Most of us realize they're not capable of accepting reality. But here's one harsh reality for the fiend sheep:

No fans for you!

We're not falling apart without Cappy, but they think with their ass without Kaysar ~ Puppette

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by okaychatt on 09-17-05 at 07:30 PM
What OFG said, and so succinctly.

She should know - she reported the live feeds.


Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by Snidget on 09-17-05 at 07:47 PM
Can I chime in with another what OFG said, so much better than how I have been able to express the same thoughts.

Thanks for putting that together so well.


I hereby declare you: 'Blacksmith of the Underworld'--ZombieBaby

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by kathliam on 09-17-05 at 07:50 PM
Excellent post, OFG. That pretty much sums it up for me. For me, the thesauras ran out of synonyms vile enough to describe the actions of the Herd.
"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by KLicK on 09-18-05 at 07:35 AM
I wish I could print this on flyers and dump them out of a plane over the finale.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by leianawd on 09-18-05 at 08:02 AM
This has by far been one of the best post about why we all dislike the "Friendship" alliance. I don't know as I could have put it so well together as you have, since it flusters me just trying to type about them. Thank you for representing our feelings on this awful group. It is very scary how Maggie has brainwashed these people, one must wonder if she has taken classes on dictator history because she definately has that part down.
"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by MarkP on 09-18-05 at 09:09 AM
I may be in the minority here, but when we say "she uses hateful techniques that were used by the Nazis" I think we are taking a reality show a bit too seriously. I had the live feeds and I hate the nerd herd, but I will root for Mags now because she played the game (key word being GAME) so well she is now being compared by many people to some of the most evil people who ever stepped on this earth!
"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by 4jedi on 09-18-05 at 09:22 AM
It's interesting that the people on BB who are the most manipulative, and in Maggie's case, experts in cruel techniques, are named the one's who "played the game well." It's also interesting that if America got the vote she would never have ended up in the final two, it would have been an entirely different game. It's as if real skill at the games and strategy without cruelty doesn't count. I don't see that she played the game well, I see that she emotionally beat up some players, and used the weakness of others.
"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by LadyT on 09-18-05 at 09:34 AM
The most manipulative BB player of all time and arguably the best was Dr Will. He had a strategy to be the villian and it worked. His GF in the game used a toothbrush to clean a toilet, the most vile thing in the game. He played the game well and deserved to win. He got others to do his dirty work. Didn't Maggie do that too?



TishyTime

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by 4jedi on 09-18-05 at 12:19 PM
>The most manipulative BB player of all time and arguably the
>best was Dr Will. He had a strategy to be the villian and it worked. His GF in the game used a toothbrush to clean a toilet, the most vile thing in the game. He played the game well and deserved to win. He got others to do his dirty work.
>Didn't Maggie do that too?

Sure, Will and his GF were also vile. So were Jun and Allison. The difference is that they knew they were lying and (was it Jordon who did the toothbrush?) being disgusting. They weren't delusional. In fact, for the most part we saw some "fessing up." Hardy never used the toothbrush because Jordon? fessed up. Dr. Will was out front in the DR. I don't see any of them as deserving of the $ because they played a great game. Certainly, if American had the vote Jun and Allison would not have been the final two. And, for myself anyway, Dr. Will would not have been in the final two. So, the question is: What constitutes a great player, skill at the competitions and rational strategy, or disgusting antics and emotional beating up? Finally, Nicole (the personal chef) would not have been in the final two, and for me, Danielle would have won, if America had the vote. Just my opinion.

For every opinion there is an opposite one. That's ok!!

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by true on 09-18-05 at 12:20 PM
Didn't Maggie do that too?

NOT EVEN CLOSE! Sorry Tishy, but comparing Dr. Will to Maggie? The difference between them is huge!

I'll just quote OFG to make the point-

They didn't pretend that they were just playing to stay in long enough to go to the cushy jury house.

Not once did Will try to sell the viewers the steaming pile of BS that he wasn't there for the money. He never said he was there to make friends, or to have a fun summer experience. He was there to win, and he was honest about it.

They didn't act like they achieved dominance because they were Superior Beings.

Sure, Will made fun of the houseguests, but he didn't do it with some kindof moral superiority.

They didn't hold the alliance together with hatred of others and pretend that the core was love.

Sure, Will may have been mean to people like Autumn, but he never pretended that it was the love of his alliance (which was gone early in the game) that brought him to the end.

The FS liked to say they talk about their lives and don't trash-talk other people.

Did Will trash talk? Sure he did, but he didn't, for a minute, pretend he didn't. He trash talked them to their faces, and made a joke out of the whole thing.

Will never pretended to be anything but who he was. He never used moral superiority to justify his gameplay. He lied and manipulated, but admitted it in every confessional. That's why the viewers grew to love him. He fessed up to all his tactics. Maggie is a lying manipulator, but she'll never admit any of it. She sits there with a blank look on her face like she's so innocent. She preaches friendship and promises and pacts to Ivette, but we all know that a REAL FRIEND wouldn't force Ivette to keep to such a promise at the expense of her own family. Maggie is a fake. She's the kindof person who is all preach, and no action. She's a hipocrite of the highest order. Will's strategy was to be the villian, Maggie's was to be the saint. She is the exact opposite of Will.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by Spidey on 09-20-05 at 01:13 PM
Will never pretended to be anything but who he was. He never used moral superiority to justify his gameplay. He lied and manipulated, but admitted it in every confessional.

Not only that, Will flat out told the other houseguests he couldn't be trusted. And because he was always so up front they trusted him anyway, over and over again. His work was masterful.


"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by lydia on 09-20-05 at 06:37 PM
Maybe those on the jury will have an "epiphany" and vote for the person who says she needs the money for her family. The rest of us don't think about helping our families? She was also more real personality-wise to the fans. She did also talk a lot of trash about the others. It scares some that a person could be so "brain-washed", by someone else i.e. Maggie.

However, Ivette played her own game and gained some sympathy for her cause (helping her family). She can be sly-like-a-fox, too. She may have secured Janelle's vote right there at the end, and James from an earlier "friendship", she formed. It's a good card to play in the game (the sympathy vote), I'm not saying she's insincere.

But, didn't everyone come nto the game to win the $? The FS was an alliance that lasted, even if those of us watching, were gagging.

And, by the way, even if Dr. Will was upfront with his scheming, deception, lying, false befriending, etc. For me, it was difficult to like him, especially when he said he wouldn't help anyone else with the $. That's just me, I want people to be "good at heart".

"The difference between DocWill and Maggie."
Posted by Estee on 09-20-05 at 08:41 PM
DocWill: 'Watch this: I'm going to show you a magic trick. First, I'm going to tell you exactly how it's done. Listening? You do this -- and this -- and especially this -- and ta-da! Got it? Okay, now I'm going to go out there and do it in front of the audience. And they're going to fall for it. Can you believe that? You'd never fall for it because you know how it's done, but you'd think anyone smart enough to follow what I just said... Oh, well. Watch closely now. For my next trick, I'm going to make their chances of winning this game disappear.'

Maggie: 'I have worked a miracle! Through me and me alone, the power is revealed onto you! Kneel down before me! I said kneel!'

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 09-18-05 at 08:00 AM
Yeah, that about sums up my feelings about the Fiendshit.


courtesy of Seana and Syren - thanks gals!
journal

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by 4jedi on 09-18-05 at 09:08 AM
Outfrontgirl,
That was absolutely the best post I've ever read - logical! I wish you would send it to CBS for Yvette to read after the show. I don't know if they would let her have it, but it's worth a shot. Clear thinking and unclouded. Great Job!!!
"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by MakeItStop on 09-18-05 at 02:36 PM
OFG, no wonder you are known for your excellent analysis! You've summed up the show perfectly saying what so many of us have felt but weren't able to express so eloquently.

Now, I wish to forget the Fiendship ... on to Survivor!


If you want breakfast in bed then sleep in the kitchen.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-18-05 at 04:46 PM
Wow, it's very nice to get such a great response, and to those who don't agree, you know, difference of opinion is a good thing (the Fiendship don't approve of it, so it must be a good thing )

I agree with what MarkP said that bringing out the N-word (Nazi) is pretty strong for a TV show, and I did think before using such a loaded term. Just to clarify, the term was strongly on my mind thinking over the techniques used this summer to polarize the groups into Superior Us and Inferior Them. Techniques that fostered HATE. The word HATE came into play way too much, and the HATE was against the person, not just the gameplay.

This extreme ridiculous stance was indeed too extreme for a TV show game. When I said Nazi's I should have said I wasn't trying to evoke the Holocaust horrors; I was thinking of the insidious ways that the German people were programmed to think of the Jewish people as an inferior race: godless, dirty, moneygrubbing.

Substitute "no soul" for godless, and this was all said of Janelle. The DIRTY thing was especially telling I thought, because Janelle is MESSY, not DIRTY. April sits and calls Janie DIRTY while picking her nose and wiping boogers on the HOH bed the FS is sharing. NOT. SEEING. REALITY. Pure prejudice.

The Nazi's put rules in place to prevent socializing and interacting and so did the FS. The group critiqued and suspected anyone who so much as hung out in the back yard with the Jedi. It's so much easier to demonize your enemies when you don't interact. Notice how when the number of players dwindled and the 3 remaining FS lost HOH to Janie (and lost their hideout), April and Ivette started talking to Janie, and lo and behold they discovered she was a real person, actually a nice person! And suddenly they couldn't HATE her any more.

Maggie really didn't like that, kept insisting Janelle was mean, made up some lies about her recent interactions with Janelle that painted Janelle as acting mean to Maggie. Maggie did all she could to stick to her people like glue at the end, to be the glue, and to foster doubts of loyalty about anyone who talked to Janelle, even if the talk was about how to blow dry your hair.

As to Dr. Will, I was just addressing the alliance aspect of BB6, why one alliance was enjoyable and the other vile and disgusting. There's a lot more to be said about the FS5 as vile individual players, but I didn't set out to write a book!

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by lydia on 09-20-05 at 06:43 PM
OFG,
How does one make BB a show that is more palatable? I think from the get-go, there needed to be a different mix of house-guests, and I didn't like the "partnership" aspect of the show. I think it really messed it up.
"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by foonermints on 09-18-05 at 04:28 PM
This has been the clearest and best analysis ever! Not that it will make any difference to Vilette and Maggot, but it made me feel better . Thanks OFG!


I will now set my vcr for the fatality finale.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-18-05 at 05:21 PM
"Vilette" is a great nic, foonermints. I like it.

Here's another example of the weirdness towards Janie, from the live feeds after most of us stopped watching Friday night. I tuned in for a brief look, monitoring my gag reflex closely:

Vilette and Maggot are celebrating, of course, saying how thrilled they are to be alone in the house with none of THEM listening -- and I do understand it's nice to let down your guard after a three month game.

Then they notice Janie didn't pack out all of her stuff. They started going around finding Janie stuff, from clothing items to a mostly used can of hairspray.

They concluded that she didn't forget the stuff; she just didn't want it. Kind of like when you check out of a hotel at the end of a stay and there's stuff not worth putting in your suitcase, and after all the house is almost done with and then BB will come in and clean it, hopefully with many cans of OUST if they ever want to use this set again!!!

So what do they do, they BAG all her stuff and ask BB to take it away. They pretended they were bagging it out of thoughtfulness when they talked to BB: hey BB, we're going to put her stuff in the DR so you can get it to her, OK? But just before that they said this is stuff she doesn't want, along with some additional bashing about her wasteful ways.

Guys, it's just a little bit of Janie's stuff in a big house, it's not toxic waste, ya know?

*Ew, but she TOUCHED it, Ew, we want all traces of her GONE.*
It's a small instance by itself, but telling, I think.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by Lisa0116 on 09-19-05 at 10:34 AM
Maggot reminds me of Charles Manson-free love, hippy, come with me, type of behavior.....
"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-19-05 at 07:29 PM
>Maggot reminds me of Charles Manson-free
>love, hippy, come with me,
>type of behavior.....

Yep, only they sent "Manson" to prison early on in the game and left his lieutenants trying to figure out what their leader wanted. Maggie herself isn't so much a leader except in absentia of Crappy.

Well, the thing about Maggot is -- yes, she is self-professed ex-hippy raised in a small town full of hippies. There are all sorts of hippies (and I never liked that term, way too broad). I think I've met most every type because I was living in that culture in late 60's and 70's. (So I should root for the hippy player, right? And yet I loathe her.)

Maggie seems like my least favorite type of hippy, the type that thinks they've figured out the only right way to live. How to eat (Vegan), how to be natural (Vanity begone!), money is the root of all evil. You may need and want money but don't ever admit it. Love is given to a brotherhood of like-minded people. Most people can be put down because they are not enlightened.

And let's not forget that even if you talk the party line you can overlook a lot of your own actions because you were raised to think of yourself as very very good and special.

From the perspective of someone with Maggie's background, Janie resembles, superficially, everything a little hippy girl is taught to abhor.

The hippy thing bugs me, obviously, because the original idea was to OPEN YOUR MIND and rebel against people with closed minds. But then it was also taken up by people who like to lead very very narrow lives just outside what was the mainstream in the 70's. Maggie has made all her little judgments about life and shut her mind up tight. She can travel all over the world and never really SEE anything because she's wearing a 100% reality proof filter on her brain.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by okaychatt on 09-19-05 at 01:18 PM
Maggie and Ivette are acting exactly like young girls on the playground, setting distinct boundaries between being "In" and being "Out".

They need to reassure themselves that they matter. The only way they can do this is to put Janelle down.

Some people never grow up. Sad, really.

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by lydia on 09-20-05 at 06:45 PM
Another reason why America should have had that extra vote all season!
"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by pumpkinqueen on 09-19-05 at 02:14 PM
great post!
"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by nailbone on 09-19-05 at 02:41 PM
Excellence as usual, OFG!

I officially don't give a rat's ass who wins, and I'm only gonna keep up with what happens through the boards, and will not watch the finale. And the only reason I will even read here is in case something really cool happens and a wall falls on Maggie...or somesuch.




Holey carp! My blog!
Official OT Tassle Adjuster o-

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 09-19-05 at 04:27 PM
in case something really cool happens and a wall falls on Maggie

If that happens, do you think that she'll look ... surprised?


courtesy of Seana and Syren - thanks gals!
journal

I can't imagine her wearing an expression other than a vacant stare.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-19-05 at 06:26 PM
She'd look like a deer in the headlights looks right after the pick-up truck goes thunk, ready to be stuffed and mounted.
_________

Okaychat is right, Maggie is stuck in preschool/kindergarten. She's not even ready for middle school. That must be why she has to make an announcement every time she has to go POO. What's with that anyway? Is that how they toilet-trained her? Is she going to get a little prize for making a present for Mommy and Daddy? Is it common for 27 year olds to shout out I'm going poo before heading to the bathroom?

I will admit I had a little twinge of pity for Maggot Saturday night (see live feeds since this is no spoilers). The twinge didn't last long.

I now don't think she is that much of a conscious manipulator. She has most definitely manipulated, and preached, and fostered hate in the name of love, and been a hypocrite, but she doesn't seem to know it.

It's like she's on auto-pilot, like something happened to her in childhood that taught her to deal with life this way. Maybe her parents are former cult members. I dunno. But I think she is clueless and will be very very surprised and hurt if she ever reads about her time in the house on the net.

I picture the families of the FS as whisking them away and making sure they don't have internet access until the family has had time to prepare them that it's not gonna be pleasant.

Ivette has said she is really eager to go on the net and see the response to them making F2. As in, she thinks the fans will be all Woohoo! They did it! Poor Deludette.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by AugustGirl on 09-19-05 at 06:51 PM
To echo everyone else ..... Excellent post, OFG. Excellent. You hit the nail right on the head.


a J Slice original. bounce by Icey.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by Reality432423 on 09-20-05 at 02:18 AM
Outfront girl. Excellent post. It is hard to put in words, why viewers would like Dr.Will and Danielle (runner up for bb3) and really hate the Friendship.

You hit the nail on the head, its the Hyopocrisy, boring play and Racial, Foul Remarks.

Dr.Will, Danielle seem like normal humans. The Friendship they seem so vile. They seem to represent everything wrong with a human. They have no self-awarness it seems everything inside them is really dark.

Kasar took what happened to him like a dignified man. He took all the crap and accepted it. If I was him, I would be freaky mad. He took all that crap and still came out squeaky clean.

He is a man I truly admire and I want to be more like him.

He is inspirational. He is the first brown person, who is perceived as Handsome, Smart, Dignified and Socialable. Even though he is Muslim he doesn't force his religion on other people and adapts to a group of people who are unusally sexual.

He keeps him composure and is the first Muslim, that is not potrayed as a terrist, jerk or geek. I am really inspired by him.

Big Brother was kind to the Friendship, they are potrayed much better on TV then they should. I've have read crazy things on what they did in the live-feed section. Big Brother kinda manipulated the FS as semi-decent on TV. They are probably the worst people I have ever seen on TV (and I like Johnny Fairplay).

I don't think I have ever truely hated a Reality Star before. I didn't like Jun, but the Friendship, wow. They pretty much broken my limits.


"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by figureerout on 09-20-05 at 12:04 PM
Folks........it's a GAME! These people are just normal - put yourselves in their position....stuck in a house with absolutely NO outside influence, NO TV, nothing to remove yourself from the rest...NO space, total intrusion 24/7 and I would really like to see how all of us would react. The friendship or whatever they call themselves are a group of like minded women who banded together (similar to kids in school who form groups and yes, that is a part of our society). Humankind relies on each other to survive. It's that simple. Love them or hate them is your choice but I am puzzled that the reason they are detested is to do with the fact they are all women? Would you call 2 men in the same position as the KKK's or some other derogatory comments? Just curious.

As for Maggie being the master, I do disagree on this. I think Maggie is just who she is....bland, boring, not very interactive and lacks any imagination. (we all know people like Maggie) and because of that she was simply disliked. Ivette is manic, no doubt about it, she the 'in your face' 'must be liked by everyone' type who is annoying and obnoxious (we all know people like Ivette) she was simply disliked. April is a sanctimonous typical sales person (we all now people like April) who chatters, smoozes and we see right thru her and she was simply disliked. Janelle is the typical 'girlie girl' kinda dumb type (a la Marilyn Monroe)- we do not feel threatened by her and she is confident in her own skin that she is quite willing to show her frailties therefore she is likeable.
All of the above are just normal human beings trying to survive in a world that worships rock stars, movie stars, TV stars and yes, reality stars. Bottom line is, CBS got you watching. They are the REAL winners, the REAL money hungry moguls, the REAL villians, who entice some individuals to make complete a**es out of themselves for a shot at 15 minutes of fame, a few dinaros (after taxes) and the hopes of breaking into showbiz. That's all this is about and nothing more. We love it and yes, we, the viewing public, eat it up and come back for more. The REAL manipulators are the head honchos at CBS!

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by mrc on 09-20-05 at 12:14 PM
These people are just normal

I respectfully disagree.

The friendship or whatever they call themselves are a group of like minded women who banded together (similar to kids in school who form groups and yes, that is a part of our society).

It's called the pack, or mob, mentality, and I want no part of it.

Humankind relies on each other to survive.

And I'll echo your point--it's just a game. No one was gonna starve in that house, no one was gonna die from dehydration, no one was gonna drown--the circumstances did not warrant acting the way that GST did unless they actually are that vapid, manipulative, and nasty.

Ferociously purrfected by thndrkttn

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by figureerout on 09-20-05 at 12:42 PM
>>It's called the pack, or mob,
>mentality, and I want no
>part of it.


(oh boy). So I take it you have never played in any team sports? So I take it you have never been to school dances? So I take it you have never had a group of friends? So I take it you have never been involved in anything that is group related? We ALL instinctively gravitate to people who have much the same interests, much the same beliefs, much the same intelligence level whether it be at work or at leisure - it's human nature. Don't get me wrong, I certainly did not like the friendship because I wouldn't gravitate to them in real life because they ARE hypocritical, obnoxious, sanctimonious, hissy fit 'girls' however Maggie is an avid animal lover so she must have SOME redeeming qualities? April and Ivette both have loving families so they must have SOME redeeming qualities? I'm sure they are several people on this board (and others) who have applied to appear on BB, Survivors or other reality shows who would be LIVID if they were remotely (albeit jokingly)referred to as "Nazi". Using this adjective is offensive and perhaps we are stooping to the same level as you so abhor in Maggie, Ivette, April and the rest of their ilk.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by mrc on 09-20-05 at 01:54 PM
I actually seek out people who are different from me so that they can strengthen my weaknesses. I don't dance. I have never been good at team sports. I also tend to avoid groups, even groups of friends, b/c I prefer solitude. As Lord Byron wrote,

I have not loved the world, nor the world me;
I have not flatter'd its rank breath, nor bow'd
To its idolatries a patient knee,
Nor coin'd my cheek to smiles, nor cried aloud
In worship of an echo; in the crowd
They could not deem me one of such; I stood
Among them, but not of them; in a shroud
Of thoughts which were not their thoughts and still could,
Had I not filled my mind, which thus itself subdued.

I am the exception that proves your point, I suppose.

Ferociously purrfected by thndrkttn
I've never referred to anyone as a Nazi unless they were a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. And the Soup Nazi, of course. Does that make me sanctimonious?

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by okaychatt on 09-20-05 at 06:45 PM
<b/c I prefer solitude

Amen, brother, which is only one of a zillion reasons I would not even consider applying for BB.


Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by lydia on 09-20-05 at 08:03 PM
Yes to me, the "Nazi" analogy is over the top. For all we know, every person was coached for the show. My niece knew personally one of the players on another reality show, and it was indeed rigged. I'm not saying the same thing for BB, because could someone actually make this stuff up?
"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by okaychatt on 09-21-05 at 08:03 AM
<Folks........it's a GAME

And we didn't like the way it was played.

No amount of lectures or analyses is going to change that.

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by tamarama on 09-20-05 at 03:33 PM
Love your post, OFG.

I'd like to join the mob of people in agreement with you. Classic dehumanization. And yes, 'Nazi' is a very strong word, but there's no denying that the same techniques were and are used to make genocide OK.

The psychological tricks that the Fiends (and most especially Maggie) engaged in reminded me a bit of the Drew controversy from last year...

Last year I did not have and did not follow the live feeds, so it was a complete shock to me when I heard about the psychological warfare he had used on Diane throughout much of the game.

The general concensus on the boards was that his manipulation of her emotions went beyond gameplay and well into cruelty.

That's how I feel about Maggie's manipulation of her drones. She played on the emotions of April & Ivette beyond normal gameplay. I doubt that April was or will be hurt by any of it (particularly because she and Maggie were "dating" too) -- but I actually feel for Ivette.

I spent most of the summer disliking Ivette quite strongly, but the more obvious Maggie's manipulation became, the more I just felt sorry for Ivette. Yes, she has made several racist comments, which is difficult to gloss over...but mostly I just think she's extrememly emotional and extremely trusting (ok, and obnoxious). Traits that made it easy for Maggie to control her. I think Ivette is likely to feel very hurt & used once she gets back into the real world.

So, yes...Maggie "played the game" well in that she managed to keep together an alliance that held her safety above their own. But to me, her manipulation went well beyond gameplay, and was indeed cruel.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by lydia on 09-20-05 at 06:18 PM
Whoa! I am exhausted from reading this treatise. It is very well thought out, but once again, the alliance that stayed together, no matter who the puppet master was, ("Magwitch" as you call her),. . .and no matter how many fans despise her, she may win this game!

In the early seasons (my memory may be foggy), America had a vote . . .which made the game so much more fun for me. I was furious when Kaysar came back into the game, and then trusted Jennifer, the Judaspriestess . . .She could be part of your "witch" personification.

I admit that in a much earlier posting I had not read much about "the behind the scenes", self-righteous bullhooey that Maggie spewed . . .but have been enlightened somewhat in these blogs. Once again this season, there is the choice of the lesser of the two still standing.

If it's a personality, morals contest . . . can we actually root wholeheartedly for anyone? However, several seasons since we lost our peanut gallery vote, people we fans can't abide are ending up winning the game. The "Nazi" leader as you characterize her (which I think is WAY over the top) was a very good/evil player. (in my brain-washed opinion)

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by okaychatt on 09-20-05 at 07:20 PM
<If it's a personality, morals contest

We know it's not a morals contest - after all the idea is to lie, cheat, and betray your way to $500,000.

However, it is a bit of a personality contest. Why is that such a problem to understand?


Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by Reality432423 on 09-20-05 at 08:25 PM
Lie, Cheat and betray. That's kinda expected for these type of shows. What makes the Friendship different is the Hypocrisy, Racial and Personal Remarks.

http://www.tvclubhouse.com/forum/messages/10972/2656916.html?1127258628
That link talks about a Lawsuit, Maggie was involved in.


Also the Friendship especially Jennifer was extremly Sadistic in what they did to Kasar. They enjoyed torturing him. That's why they are really hated. Very cold, Sadistic, cruel behaviour.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by okaychatt on 09-21-05 at 07:53 AM
<Friendship especially Jennifer was extremly Sadistic in what they did to Kasar

And let's not forget the molester accusations of April and Jennifer, saying Michael was a bad guy.

Untrue, by the way, but it got Michael evicted.

I lvoed that Julie pointed that out and gave Michael a chance to respond.

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-20-05 at 08:33 PM
>>The "Nazi" leader as you characterize her (which I think is WAY over the top) was a very good/evil player. (in my brain-washed opinion)

hi lydia, as I said it was your post that inspired me to think about "alliance" philosophies but not in an 'I disagree with everything you say' sense. For instance I second your shout out about "where are the babyboomers." This cast was too young. I like to see a mixture of life experience.

I never said Maggie is a Nazi or a Nazi leader. Of course she isn't. I observed that the Friendship bound itself together with attitudes that demonized and Otherized human beings such as we've seen historically in the Nazi party. Or KKK. Or take your pick from history. I said this because the Friendship went over the top by trying to make Janelle less than a human being, by saying she had no soul, by cultivating HATE, by talking over and over about the FS moral superiority. I called out Maggie for being the one who quietly but persistently reinforced the attitudes of hate. All the others blew with the wind, and Maggie kept bringing them back to the fold of petty nastiness.

The live feed people heard all this and more. The broadcasts (damn, I typed BOREDcasts at first, Freudian slip) didn't show more than the tip of the iceberg and didn't nail Maggie for keeping the hate on track every time it faltered. Was that a conspiracy by BB? Nah, I think Maggie is so quietly insidious that she didn't give much in the way of good soundbytes for any one segment of the show. Unlike April with her "I don't use the word hate" that the producers did use to assemble a segment.

I don't care at all whether Maggie played well. Her game play is of no interest to me in the long run. It was mediocre but successful in a mediocre season of play. The ugliness that has come out of her mouth that was completely unnecessary ensures that I am sorry to see her get rewarded. Same with Ivette.

There is team play and competition, which is a normal part of our society. If the FS made an alliance because they all liked each other and eliminated the Jedi, and nothing more, fine. Boring because they eliminated the wonderful to watch Kaysar, but I wouldn't loathe them.

I loathe them and pity them because the only way they had to unite was to repeatedly, over and over again, dehumanize and demonize and make up lies about their opponents, and convince themselves that their own lies didn't count as lies but could be seen as non-lies and non-betrayals and they could sit around and congratulate themselves for their pureness and integrity against the "dirty players" who were willing to take "dirty money."

"I didn't lie I just broke my word."
Give me a f*ckin break, ya know?

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by strid333 on 09-20-05 at 08:27 PM
Thank you for summing up my feeling of the fiendship so eloquently. I think the largest reason why I dislike them is their hypocrisy.


Three is the perfect number.

"RE: Vilest Alliance Ever"
Posted by cadfile on 09-20-05 at 11:16 PM
I agree that BB is just a game and outside of this post I will have forgotten all of the hampsters by this time next week.

This season really showed the difference between what is expected and what really happens.

Most people wish that people win things in a nice civil way based on skill and luck - but that makes boring TV.

TV Producers want backstabbing nasty snarkiness and personal vendettas. That makes dramatic TV and more ratings.

This was probably the last season of BB I will watch. I prefer to watch drama when I know it is being manufactured and the BB producers never once showed the real dynamics in the house on TV.


I use to be a photon in the wavelength continuum, but now I wear pants and talk.