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"The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-28-08 at 10:02 AM
Yay another Thursday!

I have read somewhere that ABC wants to run all 8 episode that were done already straight through. Once the strike was resolved the producers thought it made more sense to have the break after the 7th episode, then resume in April starting with the 8th episode and running straight through to the season finale at the end of May.

ABC's reasoning that they want all their shows(Ugly Betty, Grey's Anatomy and Lost) to return on one big Thursday night. Once again...networks have the final say over artistic say!

Oh by the way I am dying to read that Oceanic 6 thread. Are there spoilers in there not hidden by text? Is it safe for me?



Arkie's Art! He's real and he is looking for you!
"Bigfoot making the crop circles would expain a lot. Those size feet could tromp a lot over a night."~SurveySez

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by blacknwhitedog on 02-28-08 at 10:12 AM
Oh yuck about the schedule break!

tonight's episode guide:
hidden text

The Constant
First aired: 2/28/2008 Production code: 405
Sayid and Desmond hit a bit of turbulence on the way to the freighter, which causes Desmond to experience some unexpected side effects.

Writer: Carlton Cuse, Damon Lindelof
Director: Jack Bender
Guest star: Sonya Walger (Penny Widmore), Jeff Fahey (Frank Lapidus), Fisher Stevens (George Minkowski) , Graham McTavish (Sergeant), Darren Keefe (Billy), Kevin Durand (Keamy), Anthony Azizi (Omar), Alan Dale (Charles Widmore), Marc Vann (Doctor), Edward Conery (Auctioneer)


created by tribephyl 2005

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by trigirl on 02-29-08 at 08:28 AM
Oh no!!!! Does that mean we only have two more episodes until a break. Noooooooooooo.
bouncey by Ice
"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by mrc on 02-28-08 at 11:52 AM
Don't go in that thread. It has spoilers, like the one about the alien ship . . . oops.

Sigs by Bob about chalk dust. Pretty exciting stuff

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Max Headroom on 02-28-08 at 03:02 PM
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

Just getting myself psyched up for tonight's episode.


A SharTribe creation!

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by pinksparkleguitar on 02-28-08 at 04:16 PM
Can't wait!!


Syren made it!

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by CutsyTootsy on 02-28-08 at 05:22 PM
Only a few more hours! Maybe if we're lucky we'll get to see Sawyer in his boxers again...

"Not going to spoil it"
Posted by moonbaby on 02-28-08 at 10:21 PM
Just wanted to post holy crap how I loved this episode!!!
LOVED.IT.

"RE: Not going to spoil it"
Posted by frodis on 02-28-08 at 11:09 PM
*nods*

*boggles*

I think I'm gonna need to watch that again.


Winter wonderland a la Arkie!

"RE: Not going to spoil it"
Posted by Breezy on 02-29-08 at 08:22 AM
I agree, that one really needs to be watched again.
"RE: Not going to spoil it"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 08:30 AM
Along with Desmond's other one.
"RE: Not going to spoil it"
Posted by CutsyTootsy on 02-29-08 at 08:52 AM
I said the exact same thing at the very end of that episode!

"RE: Not going to spoil it"
Posted by Ahtumbreez on 02-29-08 at 09:11 AM
Great episode and too much to take in on just one viewing. Loved it. But now my brain hurts thinking about it.


Agman took me to the islands

"RE: Not going to spoil it"
Posted by HobbsofMI on 02-29-08 at 10:37 AM
I have not watched it yet due to V-ball....but I could not help and peek in here. Now I really want to see it and may even watch it online at lunch.


GO WING!
sig by Pepe, bouncy by IceCat, and bobble head by Tribephyl

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by PhoenixMons on 02-28-08 at 11:14 PM
GREAT episode!

On an emotional level, it ranks up there with House of the Rising Sun (which is still my fave episode), from season 1. Just wow.

"Agree!"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 08:16 AM
Desmond on the phone with Penny? Then talking to Sayid? Oh my heartstrings! It did remind me of Jin holding the flower!

*cries*

"*sniffle*"
Posted by moonbaby on 02-29-08 at 08:33 AM
I was teary eyed over that. What a great scene! I hope it helps Des keep his mind in present time-I'd hate for him to be killed off. Can't help but think that after seeing what happened to Mikowski.

One more comment-I really like Faraday.

"RE: *sniffle*"
Posted by Ahtumbreez on 02-29-08 at 09:12 AM
Me too. Liking Faraday that is. I actually like all of the 4 new characters.


Agman took me to the islands

"RE: *sniffle*"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 09:34 AM
Me too. They are all pretty strong characters.

However I have to give some props here to Sayid in that final scene too! He just looked like he was going to tear up too!

"RE: *sniffle*"
Posted by frodis on 02-29-08 at 09:47 AM
Well, Sayid "gets it." He's looking for his long-lost chickie. too. I loved the way he performed that.
"RE: *sniffle*"
Posted by Ahtumbreez on 02-29-08 at 11:36 AM
falling in love with Sayid all over again. *sigh I still liked him and Maggie


Agman took me to the islands
-yes-

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by sharnina on 02-29-08 at 04:11 AM
I thought the episode was amazing, too. Henry Ian Cusick is such a fine actor. I remember when he first showed up on the show and I kept trying to think of what I had seen him in. It finally came to me. He played Jesus in The Gospel of John. It was a big screen movie that came out the same year as The Passion.

I thought he was a very compelling Jesus with his haunting but kind eyes. And it was all about his eyes tonight. Very expressive. I think I might have a crush.

Shar's World

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by mrc on 02-29-08 at 08:09 AM
Notable things from this episode:

1. Alvar Hanso owned the ledger from the Black Rock ship. Charles Widmore purchased it.

2. Someone on the ship cut communications, yet someone let Sayid and Des out of their captivity.

3. Faraday has a prior connection to Des, his "constant."

4. Is the sickness that killed the freighter's communications guy the same sickness that killed Danielle's people?

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 08:15 AM
I think Faraday is experiencing the same things as Desmond. Faraday has been exposed to high levels of electromagnetism too.

I think it is the same sickness. Danielle's crew were scientists, possibly dealing with electromagnetism. But hat she killed them for that? She is crazy!

I was so worried that Desmond was going to pass out in the bathroom and drown in the sink that Widmore left the water running on. Why did he do that? Why did he give Desmond Penny's address?

I wonder how much of a role MInkowski will be whether in the past or the future? Where was he going? To the past?


"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Riordan on 02-29-08 at 10:28 AM
Danielle's crew were scientists, possibly dealing with electromagnetism. But hat she killed them for that? She is crazy!

Maybe, maybe not. If the only thing that happens is the person goes catatonic for a few moments (a la Desmond this episode), then why was the communications guy restrained to the bed? If some of her crew became violent or threatening as a result of losing their grip on reality, I certainly see her killing them in self defense. She is a survivor.

Loved this episode. I will forgive the lack of Sawyer in it because it was so good. And because Desmond isn't half bad either (though I like 2004 Desmond better than 1996 Desmond).

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by CTgirl on 02-29-08 at 02:57 PM
If the only thing that happens is the person goes catatonic for a few moments (a la Desmond this episode), then why was the communications guy restrained to the bed?

If Desmond hadn't talked to Penny (his constant that pulled the two halves of his consciousness together) he would have suffered the same fate as Minkowski. Remember that Desmond started having a bloody nose too just before he made the phone call.

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Riordan on 03-01-08 at 09:05 AM
I got that. I was refering to the fact that we didn't see the progression of the "sickness", and why Danielle would have killed her crew. We know it "speeds up". Does it cause them to become violent, and she was protecting herself? Did she fear it was contagious? Mercy killing to put them out of their misery?

"Bwah!!!!"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 08:31 AM
I just noticed you sig! Priceless!

You have been dying to show that off haven't you?

"RE: Bwah!!!!"
Posted by mrc on 02-29-08 at 08:43 AM
Yep. Tribe did good, eh?

Tribefied

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by trigirl on 02-29-08 at 08:21 AM
I know....was that it for Minkowski? All that hype and he's dead?

Charles Widmore didn't seem as evil, but you are right, it was no coincidence that he bought the journal of Magnus Hanso from the Black Rock. During the on-line game, the character Sam Thomas jumps on a freighter that is "supposedly" searching for Black Rock and is funded by a shady "Maxwell Group". Could have been Charles Widmore. Also....one of our season 4 clues was "423 Cheyenne Walk" which turned out to be Penny's address.

Every epic needs a great love story and I was glad that the Desmond\Penny story showed that. Love them!

bouncey by Ice

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by dajaki on 03-02-08 at 11:55 AM
It was 423 Cheyne Walk (pronounced Cheney). Rather well-known London street with history of famous residents. Wikipedia (the world's most reliable source for info) has it.
"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 08:28 AM
LAST EDITED ON 02-29-08 AT 08:30 AM (EST)

Mind blowing!

My thoughts and questions.

1. I hate to keep harping on this but Kate's toy airplane still bugs with me. My question is...are the "flashbacks" part of what is happening or are they just there to flesh out the character. I always assumed that it was just backstory, but are they actually part of the story? Last night there were the white flashes when Desmond traveled back and forth. Have all the flash backs so far been the Losties traveling? The sickness? But they don't tell anyone what is going on? Is that why there are differences in some props and photos?

2. The flash forwards? Are they really there? Does this come into play with the twin theory? Are those not on the island not able to return to their selves on the island, like Minkowski? Does the Oceanic 6 have a constant or know about it? Is that why they are miserable? Is Charlie, Hurley's? Ben-Sayid? Aaron-Kate? Who would Jack's be? Kate? Or his father?

3. Above theory...is this why women can't give birth? Their consciences are only there or vice versa...haven't really fleshed that one out.

4. I still don't get how Desmond knew Charlie was going to die? Did he keep going forward on the island just around Charlie?


I have more but have to go!

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Breezy on 02-29-08 at 09:03 AM
4. Maybe Penny (his constant) told him.
"Why Desmond was in prison"
Posted by Chez on 02-29-08 at 08:54 AM
LAST EDITED ON 02-29-08 AT 08:56 AM (EST)

As soon as the episode started, I thought to myself - now we are going to find out why Desmond was in prison, and it has something to do with the time travel. That is why they could not reveal it to us previously.

I still think this is so. But what can it be? I think Desmond's "crime" still has to take into account his high morals. I think he commits whatever transgression it is in order to save someone. My thoughts currently are that this person is Daniel, in the past. Maybe Daniel's time travel experiments come to the attention of the government, and he is going to be arrested and/or killed. Desmond knows it is critical that Daniel be left unharmed, so he helps Daniel escape. That is Desmond's crime.

Thoughts?

ETF spelling

"RE: Why Desmond was in prison"
Posted by Breezy on 02-29-08 at 09:03 AM
Desmond was in prison? I must have missed that?
"RE: Why Desmond was in prison"
Posted by Chez on 02-29-08 at 09:20 AM
I think it was Desmond's first flashback, maybe in Season 2. He was just being released from a military prison in Scotland I think, or northern England. We never learned why he had been in prison. It was shortly after that that he met Jack in the stadium and started the round the world boat race where he became shipwrecked on the island.
"RE: Why Desmond was in prison"
Posted by Breezy on 02-29-08 at 09:39 AM
He only had a two day leave, maybe he didn't make it back to base in time?
"RE: Why Desmond was in prison"
Posted by Chez on 02-29-08 at 09:52 AM
It was quite a lengthy imprisonment I think, and it has always been a lurking question among Lost fans as to what his crime was. Somehow I have to think there was a special significance to this "crime". If it is related to the time travel and involves Faraday, those would be two very good reasons why we were not allowed to have this information up to this time.
"RE: Why Desmond was in prison"
Posted by Breezy on 02-29-08 at 10:10 AM
And sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.
"RE: Why Desmond was in prison"
Posted by Chez on 02-29-08 at 10:42 AM
Lost-pedia is a great reference. They have a page of what they regard as unanswered questions. Here are a couple questions from the Desmond page.

Why was he dishonorably discharged from the British Royal Scots (Army)?
Did anything change as a result of his going back in time?

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Desmond_Hume#Unanswered_questions

Evidently they are not convinced it is a simple matter of desertion.

"Agree"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 10:19 AM
I think it is because he went AWOL. It was pretty clear to me.
"RE: Why Desmond was in prison"
Posted by Chez on 02-29-08 at 01:00 PM
Info from Lostpedia on Desmond's background (note this is not a spoiler)

"Sometime around 1997, Desmond joined the Royal Scots (now The Royal Regiment of Scotland). He did not see active combat duty as part of this regiment, as they were last deployed in 1991.("Flashes Before Your Eyes") During the time he served, Desmond managed to reach the rank of a Lance-Corporal, before getting discharged and serving time in the Southway Garrison military prison, for failing to "follow orders". His exact offense, however, is still unknown."

link:
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Desmond

They wrote "around 1997" and we now can be pretty sure this is 1996. The nature of the offense he committed is not desertion or going AWOL. I'm not sure what his rank was as of the episode last night, was he a Lance-Corporal?

"RE: Why Desmond was in prison"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 01:09 PM
I don't get it? What are you trying to say?
That Lostpedia has not updated?


"RE: Why Desmond was in prison"
Posted by Chez on 02-29-08 at 01:18 PM
Trying to say that the cause of Desmond's being in prison has not been revealed to us as yet. Another poster thought it was due to reporting late after the 2 day leave or going AWOL.

I was making a guess Desomond's offense may have some relationship to the time travel and/or to Faraday. Maybe the "not following orders" he is accused of is something along those lines, perhaps not following orders to capture or kill Faraday while he (Desmond) is in the military.

"RE: Why Desmond was in prison"
Posted by Chez on 03-07-08 at 08:58 PM
I emailed my theory to Doc Jensen on EW and he responded he liked it and had not heard it before. The theory may be wrong, but I'm just sayin....
"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by mrc on 02-29-08 at 09:11 AM
Just a thought: remember Hurley's buddy in the mental hospital who kept repeating the magic numbers? Did we ever find out anything more about him? He was on a freighter, right?

My mind is blowing!!!!

Tribefied

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by blacknwhitedog on 02-29-08 at 10:01 AM
Oh Man! One of the best episodes ever- can wait to watch it again tonight! They really gave a lot of clues away. Just love Desmond's character and Daniel!


created by tribephyl 2005


"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by warp_core breach on 02-29-08 at 10:10 AM
Great episode. A lot to take in but still enjoyable. But where the heck is Michael?! I was so hoping for him to finally make his appearance and proclaim that he sabotaged communications and opened the door.

I watched Eli Stone for the first time following Lost. The actor playing the doctor on the freighter on Lost appeared in Eli Stone as a whistle-blower hiding out in Hawaii. Just coincidence I'm sure but it was odd... Although I remember a post following the season premiere of Lost. Something Lost related appeared on Eli Stone? Am I right? Are the 2 shows in league with each other?

Bah! I'm seeing conspiracies where there are none! Damn Lost does that to a person! Next thing I know, I'll be in a sanitarium playing Connect Four if I don't get a grip!



Siggie courtesy of Seana

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Ahtumbreez on 02-29-08 at 11:41 AM
Are you sure it wasn't a post about "Chuck". When Chuck flashes there's a flash of flight 815 or there was in an episode. Maybe that's it.


Agman took me to the islands
-yes-

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by realitycoholic on 03-06-08 at 11:13 AM
You're thinking of one episode of 'Chuck' where he spews out a stream of information and one of the things he says is something like "Flight 814 crashed because of...(garbled)" and you see a quick picture of an airplane. It was a really fun little Easter egg--especially since 'Chuck' is on another network!


**Work of arzt by PhoenixMons**

"Why he let the water run"
Posted by Breezy on 02-29-08 at 10:22 AM
Was just brainfarting with a coworker about Lost and this is what he said... and he could be right!

Pene's dad let the water run, because he knew it would be a trigger to send Desmond back to the island/freighter. Her Dad is manipulating Pene and Desmond because he either wants to get to the island himself or wants something from the island.

"RE: Why he let the water run"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 10:29 AM
Could be. It was a very odd, deliberate thing to do. Especially giving Des, Penny's address. He was so adamant about keeping them apart and to send Des on his voyage.

I wonder if Widmore is a time jumper/traveler himself?

"RE: Why he let the water run"
Posted by Wacko Jacko on 02-29-08 at 11:29 AM
He did send Desmond there because Penny was supposed to tell him she did not want anything to do with him. but Desmond did convince her to give him her phone number. She did seem like she didn't want anything to do with him. Something must have happened between 1996 and 2004.
"RE: Why he let the water run"
Posted by Breezy on 02-29-08 at 11:54 AM
If a father truly didn't want his daughter to have anything to do with someone, he wouldn't give that someone their address. I say he had other motives.
"RE: Why he let the water run"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 12:31 PM
I just read somewhere else...their take on it.

Not really cause he knew Des was jumping but more to show passage of time and some character developement. Widmore is a germphobe, plus he apparently does not care for the environment. Desmond waking up with the water spilling over shows that he has been out for some time.

But to me that does not really explain Widmore's motivation in giving the address. He is nudging thme along for his purposes.

"RE: Why he let the water run"
Posted by Riordan on 02-29-08 at 10:35 AM
That actually makes a lot of sense. I wondered at the time why he would give Desmond Penny's information when he so obviously disapproves of any relationship. Then too, why give the address and not the phone number? So that Desmond will see her in person and make more of an impact on her emotions so she will be there to answer the phone?

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Max Headroom on 02-29-08 at 10:51 AM
Great episode, though I thought it was very different from the others this season. When Faraday found the reference in his journal, "Desmond Hume is my constant", that was a mind-blowing moment.


A SharTribe creation!

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Devious Weasel on 02-29-08 at 11:14 AM
I think the door opener and the communications trasher are two different people. Michael's the pretty obvious candidate for the person who trashed the communications room. If that's the case, and he didn't want the ship to be able to talk to the outside world, would he really let Sayid, who he knows could probably establish a connection out? I think Frank is the one who unlocked the door.

Cuse and Lindelof said in a podcast in Season Two or Season Three that when all was said and done and people were looking back on the series, the Desmond-Penny love story would stand out as one of the most important elements of the show. I've often wondered about that, and now think that Penny might be the means by which they get back to the island. Who else will have access to the money and the resources they will need to get back?

Oh, here's a little spoiler:

Charles Widmore shows up on the island next week during Juliet's episode.

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Ahtumbreez on 02-29-08 at 11:45 AM
Hope this isn't answered elsewhere in the thread, but....

If the Losties think that it took Des and Sayid over a day to get to the boat, but in fact it didn't. How long have the Losties actually been lost? And how old would Aaron really be?


Agman took me to the islands
-yes-

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Breezy on 02-29-08 at 11:55 AM
The plane went down in September? (is that right?) Desmond called Pene on Christmas Eve.
"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Ahtumbreez on 02-29-08 at 12:08 PM
Well, that would be about Jack's 100 day assumption (when he mentioned he hadn't seen a game in 100 days). So does the time warp thing happen just in the vicinity of the island?

I think the island is just a big navel that connects all these multi-level worlds and times together.


Agman took me to the islands
-yes-

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by frodis on 02-29-08 at 12:19 PM
Like a warp zone in Super Mario Brothers?

I had a similar thought, actually. That it's a sort of home base for time travel and none of them are actually there, but are just visiting from various points in space/time.


I laugh every time I see your -yes-

"Christian Shepherd?"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 12:28 PM
Is he jumping? Is that why Jack saw him on the Island? He would have been exposed to radiation if he was a doctor right? While he truly is dead he is not dead in the past? Does this make sense?

Charlie appearing to Hurley this year? Is that Charlie from the past appearing like Christian did? Can they go to a future where they are dead?

Didn't Desmond run into Charlie in he original episode? Could Charlie have been acting as his Constant before Penny? Or did Desmond actually have to know him? Or would that explain Desmond and Jack?

I think Kate would have to be Aaron's constant. Not the other way around.

I think I just confused myself. Carry on.

If this show does not get an Emmy this year....

"RE: Christian Shepherd?"
Posted by frodis on 02-29-08 at 12:54 PM
Charlie did say to Hurley "I am dead, but I'm also here."

Christian's body was on the plane so maybe live-past-him is inhabiting dead-future-him.

Maybe when Jack says to Kate that they have to go "back" he doesn't mean to the island, physically, but, you know, back back. In time.

"RE: Christian Shepherd?"
Posted by PhoenixMons on 02-29-08 at 02:49 PM
Ooh, I like this idea about them going 'back' not in the physical sense!
"RE: Christian Shepherd?"
Posted by CTgirl on 02-29-08 at 03:14 PM
I like that idea too - but we know that things don't always happen like the flash indicates and that they can go back and change the future:

Desmond changed the future by going back and meeting Faraday (Faraday's notebook was updated).

Desmond predicted that Claire and Aaron would get on a helicopter together (when he was telling Charlie that he would have to die to save them) and it seems like Claire does not get off the island if Kate has Aaron. So did Desmond just change this bit of future too?

So to save the ones left on the island, do the Oceanic Six have to go back to the island or go back in time, or both?

"RE: Christian Shepherd?"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 03:36 PM
Here's the thing and the way I understand it...

If the Oceanic 6 are able to time travel and that is why they are in the future, somewhere else their island bodies must be. (I sound like Yoda there).

They made it clear that only mentally do you time travel, not physically. What if the wreckage with the bodies are them but only those that "survived" 815 going down were able to leap? Does not really make sense since they would need a body to go into I guess. Or a future.

This way it also eliminates the worry about running into yourself and creating a paradox. And? I dont know if I answered any of your questions

Can you tell I'm obsessed today?

"RE: Christian Shepherd?"
Posted by frodis on 02-29-08 at 03:50 PM
Well. Charlie was dead, and also in Hurley's future. Maybe all of Hurley's imaginary friends are time-travelers. That one guy was on the island. (Dave?)

Maybe the island bodies go wherever the Desmond-that-knows-Sayid went. (I know, I'm obsessed about that, but it was a very strong point that Desmond didn't know Sayid.)

Me too, Zombs. I've been greatly enjoying this season, but this episode made me get back into speculation mode. Up until now I've just been content to read everyone else's speculations.

Oh, and the registration on the helicopter was N842M. 8-42. Numbers! What's brilliant about that is that I (nerd) looked up that registry number and it is actually a registered helicopter (meaning they didn't just make up that number and paint it on there.)

"RE: Christian Shepherd?"
Posted by CTgirl on 02-29-08 at 04:11 PM
Maybe it was 1996 Desmond that was on the freighter and not 2004 Desmond?
"RE: Christian Shepherd?"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 04:49 PM
Desmond's 1996 conscience went into Des 2004 body on the freighter. That is why he did not know Sayid. Back in 1996 Des when he "jumped" his body would just lay motionless or catatonic. I don't know then what happened to Des 2004 conscience went. Unless it is the 96 one just without the added memories.
"RE: Christian Shepherd?"
Posted by CTgirl on 02-29-08 at 05:46 PM
The bodies lie inert, but maybe the conscious is fluid and can split and that is why you need to find your constant to join them back together and not die.

Another thought - Minkowski, Des and Faraday can all time travel because they've been exposed to electromagnatism; Sayid didn't. Will Faraday's experiments on the island help the rest of them time travel?

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Ahtumbreez on 02-29-08 at 12:29 PM
Exactly - they even speed up or slow down depending on your viewpoint!


Agman took me to the islands
-yes-
not too obvious I hope

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 12:41 PM
I think...and I am probably off but there is a time distortion area around the island. Not the island itself. Because Sayid knew that it was almost Christmas, the freighter was Christmas Eve and Penny knew that Desmond would call on 12/24/2004. So I think that the Island, freighter, and "real world" are actually on the same timeline. The helicopter going through that storm was going through the portal if you will.

Another question...did Libby give Desmond the boat?

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by CTgirl on 02-29-08 at 03:05 PM
did Libby give Desmond the boat?

She did. It was her late husband's - and I wonder if we'll end up recognizing her husband from somewhere?!

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by frodis on 02-29-08 at 11:59 AM
Here's what made me boggle.

Where did the Desmond who knows Sayid go?

Freighter Desmond doesn't know Sayid - it seems that 1996 Desmond is leaping into 2004 Desmond's consciousness. I think that's an important distinction that gets around the current paradox with time-travel - the idea that a future person can go back and later the past. It seems like in this case, past people can leap forward and change the future - and that it might not be a two-way street?

I originally thought that Minkowski was Hurley's buddy in the mental institution, repeating the numbers, but it is not the same character name or actor - although the two actors look quite similar. I wonder if he's Hurley's buddy's buddy who was also at the listening post on the freighter? (Maybe I'm mis-remembering some of that.)

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Ahtumbreez on 02-29-08 at 12:55 PM
Good boggle. So you think the Des' in different time spots switched consciousness? That makes since.

But then when Eloise died, Faraday never got to teach her the maze an hour later so she never really learned the maze.


Agman took me to the islands
-yes-

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 01:07 PM
But then when Eloise died, Faraday never got to teach her the maze an hour later so she never really learned the maze.

This is true!

arrrrghhhhh! Anyeurism!!!!!Can't.go.on.anymore.

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by pinksparkleguitar on 02-29-08 at 01:26 PM
Frick. I didn't think of that. He never taught Eloise the maze, so how could her conciousness swapped with one that doesn't exist?

And how did Faraday know that he was going to teach her the maze in an hour? I assume that he had been swapping out and knew he taught her the maze.



Syren made it!

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by pinksparkleguitar on 02-29-08 at 01:35 PM
Ok, besides all the other questions that you all have brought up. Here what I want to know:

Daniel Faraday said that 'someone' could indeed be your constant, but you would have to 'really, really care about them' Thus Penny would work for Desmond.

But how would Desmond work as Daniel's constant unless there's a lot more to their relationship than we know about?

I'm excited to see what fleshes out there.


Syren made it!

If I had a blog it would be kinda like this...

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by frodis on 02-29-08 at 01:44 PM
You could probably go the benign route with that and figure that if Desmond was instrumental in the success of Faraday's life's work, then he would be very, very important to Faraday.

However, it probably is something deeper than that. The way they revealed it in the journal was worthy of the "dooot-dooot-dooooooooooo" music, so it will be interesting to see how that comes about.


"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 01:51 PM
You're my constant Froody!

I was wondering if it had to be a person or could it be an object. The whole Charlie and his ring is sticking out now too. The ring he got from his father, who Charlie then put it in Aaron's crib. Which was then left behind. I don't know. I think my brain is swiss cheese now. I need a break.

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Ahtumbreez on 02-29-08 at 01:56 PM
I thought like frodis did, that Des was important because he was involved in the success of Faraday's work.

But Faraday wrote it in his notebook like he was not going to know that Des was his constant. So he wrote it as a reminder.

I just hope if I pass away between now and when the series ends there is tv in Heaven or I'm sticking around as a ghost!


Agman took me to the islands
-yes-

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by MissRaven on 03-01-08 at 07:03 PM
What I don't get is how Des could possibly be Faraday's constant when he himself is variable? Penny could be constant to Des because she is in "constant" time. Or am I not understanding something about that whole concept?
"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Reddhawk on 03-01-08 at 09:33 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-01-08 AT 09:37 PM (EST)

The way I understood it is that a person's own position in time (whether fixed or flip-flopping) is independent of the role they play for someone else. In other words, a person is only a "constant" relative to someone else. Penny is Des's constant, because he has contact with her in both times. Likewise, Des can act as Faraday's constant, because Faraday met him in the past and then again on the island. What is really interesting is that when he told Desmond to find him in the past, Faraday was not only helping him, he was also helping himself by insuring that he had in fact established contact with Desmond in the past. He must have known that this was the only way he could insure that Des could in fact act as his constant. Does this mean that Faraday is also flip-flopping between times and that we simply haven't seen him do it yet? Or, is he just covering his bases?

"Faraday"
Posted by moonbaby on 03-02-08 at 09:53 AM
I think he might also be doing the time shift based on a couple of things:

The crying when they showed the plane in the ocean-was his mind in another time?

There must have been a reason for him doing the card memory exercise, and he wasn't doing so great.

These scenes point to something going on with him, and with his exposure to radiation (as Des said, what do you put on your head?) he is a likely candidate for the mind bending time twist. It might not have even been the island that did it to him-the question is would he be mad scientist enough to use his time beam machine on himself?

"RE: Faraday"
Posted by pinksparkleguitar on 03-03-08 at 11:30 PM
The card experiment = the rat and maze experiment?

Proves he does time travel, with his ability to know what the cards are a sign of the travel?

Maybe?


Sig by Tribe- the real 'Jacob' of the island.

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by trigirl on 02-29-08 at 01:52 PM
Before Minkowski died he said "I can't get back". Jack said to kate "We've got to go back".

Daniel told Frank to fly at a heading of 305. Eko carved John 3:05 and told Locke to look there.

bouncey by Ice

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 02:02 PM
I noticed that about Minkowski but excellent catch about Eko.

This episode had ooodles of numbers agian.

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by pinksparkleguitar on 02-29-08 at 04:00 PM
Nice catch on 305. Significant for sure, especially since if you were referencing the verse, you would say John 3:5, and omit the '0'. But they were careful to keep it in.

By the way if anyone is curious, John 3:5 is:

'Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.'

It brings the water theme back in to it again.



Syren made it!

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by Ahtumbreez on 02-29-08 at 02:42 PM
One of the girls in the office is wondering if the Tsumani of 2004 will play into the script.

I doubt it. But they did make a big deal about Christmas Eve 2004 and the Tsumani happened 2 days later. They have referenced real life events, so......

More food for thought.


Agman took me to the islands
-yes-

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by frodis on 02-29-08 at 02:50 PM
I hadn't even thought about that but it is an excellent question.

I guess it depends on where the plane really crashed. If it was in the Indian Ocean, as the "found 815" was in the earlier episode this year, then maybe. If they are somewhere in the south pacific, then it wouldn't affect them.

"Tsunami - Pacific or Indian Ocean?"
Posted by trigirl on 02-29-08 at 02:57 PM
LAST EDITED ON 02-29-08 AT 02:58 PM (EST)

...wondering if the Tsumani of 2004 will play into the script

Think it was on one of the podcasts that I heard Tsunami will be referenced or featured in some way. I guess it all depends if they are in the Pacific or if they are in the Indian Ocean. The freighter boys said they were in the South Pacific, but the on-line game referenced the Indian Ocean near the Sunda Trench.

bouncey by Ice

Eta: Frodis and I are so in-sync!

"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by zombiebaby on 02-29-08 at 03:04 PM
I believe either last season or the one before they said they would address it. Whether it is a pivotal plot point or just a mention I don't know.
"RE: The Constant- 2/28/08"
Posted by pinksparkleguitar on 02-29-08 at 04:04 PM
Again with the water.



Syren made it!

"Rewatched and may have to again"
Posted by moonbaby on 02-29-08 at 08:09 PM
LAST EDITED ON 02-29-08 AT 08:23 PM (EST)

the crew member that took Des to the sick bay had a tattoo on his left arm, and what's funny is I think it changed...
Newp!
mkay left is the tribal looking thing, right arm is some sort of circular tattoo, I'd like to get a better look at it, it could be Dharma-ish, but I am not looking again, this episode is messing with my mind

"Daniel's Constant"
Posted by CutsyTootsy on 03-04-08 at 06:09 PM
Alright, my head is still trying to wrap around this episode. I really like all the questions posed here thus far. Here's the one I want to ask:

At the end we see Daniel's journal and it says: "If anything goes wrong- Desmond Hume will be my constant." So if Desmond is now his constant- what went wrong?