I still love Lost. Nikki and Paulo...Not a lot of plot development but what a great episode anyway. Saw lots of familiar faces and had a nice little review of the storyline for those who haven't been here since the beginning. Loved the ending!
I really liked the episode. It didn't do much for plot development, but it had the feel of a Twilight Zone episode or an O'Henry story. Especially with the ending when Nicky opened her eyes as they were burying her.
Great Episode.* I loved seeing the crash again.
* Loved how they used most of the cast, especially the departed ones! Arzt!* Billy Dee!
* What was Paolo looking at right after the crash?
* Does the nesting doll have any meaning?
* Vincent!
* Forensics Hatch!
Plot holes? Sure but for me Lost is back. Several great episodes in a row.
A PhoenixMons Creation
I liked it. No it didn't further move the plot along but it was a classic Lost episode exploring the characters' lives before the island. I enjoyed seeing the dearly departed characters. I thought it strange in the beginning that there were these flashbacks even though Niki and Paolo were dead - well obviously they weren't dead! It kinda bugs me that Lost goes to the trouble of adding two characters to the cast and nothing happens with them and now they're (seemingly) dead after only a few appearances. What was the point?I find it interesting that those Losties who have done bad things (murder) before the island are now dead - Ana Lucia, Eko, Niki & Paolo. Makes me wonder if Sawyer will be next for killing an innocent man.
Siggie courtesy of Seana
Kate has murdered too. She blew up the house with her father sleeping in it.
Right! I forgot about Kate.
Siggie courtesy of Seana
NO NO NOOOO! i like kate ha ha i don't want her to go i want her and the doctor to patch things up pssht who needs sawyer!
I really enjoyed this episode as well.Not only was it just a solid episode all around, but I like that we went back to see just how these two fit in to the bigger picture. A lot of times I feel like the show doesn't actually know where it's going and that we're never going to get the answers we want, but last night's ep. showed me that they do indeed have a grand plan.
I don't think we're going to have *everything* answered for us (that might take some of the fun out of it), but at least it looks like they actually have all the answers and aren't just sending us on a wild goose chase.
What a fricken waste of an episode. I know they cant all be like last week, but with only 20 some odd episodes a season to waste one on this is beyond ridiculous. Maybe there is some bigger picture here and perhaps it will mean something in that later, but if what we saw was what it was... it wasnt worth much.-ICB
Don't worry! I felt like it was unsignificant as well. However, i read up somewhere that it is goin to seem what you may call "unconnected" right now but it will all come togther and make sense in the end. By this i mean that i'm sure they brought Paulo and Nikki back into the picture for a good reason.
To me it was only a filler episode. Nothing happened and it will have been pointless if they have suffocated. It still had some interesting scenes. Seeing Ben plan the kidnapping of Sheppard for one and some funny ones. This one in particular: Imagine you are Nikki and you have just survived the crash to see Boone coming running at you: "I need a pen, does anyone have a pen?" What???I need a reminder: When did the science teacher die? I remember an explosion but can't remember how it unfolded.
He was killed off towards the end of season 1. I don't remember exactly which episode it happened in, but it was when the french woman led them to the Black Rock so that they could get dynamite to blow open the hatch.It was just as Arzt was explaining how dangerous dynamite is and how careful you have to be with it, that he, himself, was blown to bits. Which was followed by Hurley's humorous comment to Jack, "Dude, you've got some Arzt on you!"
With regards to this week, I definitely agree that it was a filler episode. That being said, I still enjoyed seeing a bit more about the minor characters such as Arzt. It also served as a good opportunity to resolve a few small issues, such as Charlie's admission to Sun. Even if it wasn't on par with the recent episodes, I enjoyed this one simply for its bizarre tone and eerie ending.
Thank you Reddhawk.
I loved it. Seeing all the characters that have been killed off, seeing how these characeres fit into the grand plan by going through the recap, Charlie admitting what he and Sawyer did, the interaction between Hurley and Sawyer, it was great!I feel like there was more to that episode then there seemed, though.
Tribe rocked me!
I feel like there was more to that episode then there seemed, though.I'm with you on that one Pinky, especially since they went through the effort to cast Rodrigo Santoro and then not use him much.
I liked the episode. We had Lost's own murder mystery complete with Twilight Zone like music and a punch in the gut ending when Nikki opened her eyes. I also liked seeing all the stories interlocking in a new way.
And I loved the way Sawyer kept on saying, "Who's Nikki?" and "Who are they?" It made me laugh everytime!
Warning...Long ranting post ahead.Boy, I really have some mixed emotions on this episode. Sure there was some kinda fun stuff in this one, but I have to agree with Idiot Cowboy that this was a complete waste of time. Even worse, I felt cheated after this episode. It felt like the writers were reinventing the story and creating stuff to fit their needs. There was a lot of stuff that really bugged me about this episode.
So Paulo and Nikki were the first ones to find the pearl station and didn’t say anything to any one? So much for them really wanting to leave the island. How convenient that Arnst (sp), the science teacher, was collecting insects and Nikki just happened to keep them. Oh, and there is this great spider that will only paralyze you with one bite very nice and convenient to boot. Paulo sees Ben and Juliet and hears their plans to try and get Jack to do the surgery, hears them mention Michael, and says or does nothing??? He knows that you can change the channel in the Pearl station and “spy” on the losties in the hatch and again doesn't say anything or doesn’t use this to his advantage? What ever.
Yes I understand that the show went out of its way to show that Nikki and Paulo were not nice people. Very self-serving and willing to kill for what they want. But I just don’t agree with the way the writers tried to weave them into the story the way they did. From seeing Boone and Shannon at the airport to having their lost bag with the diamonds at the bottom of the same waterfall as the suitcase with the guns and Kate’s model airplane. I felt like they were hitting me over the head with trying to tie them to the island. Dumb, just plain dumb.
The best part of the show was the exchange with Paulo and Locke on the beach when he was trying to hide the doll. Locke respected Paulo’s need for secrets on the island, and just offered his friendly advice. A classic Locke moment. I liked the ending with Nikki opening her eyes while being buried, but they had better not come crawling out of the sand in a Day of the Dead moment. That would just be wrong on so many levels.
It was good to have Charlie admit to Sun about her abduction and for Sun to give Sawyer the diamonds, and I really like the minor redemption of Sawyer giving the diamonds back to Nikki in the grave. Maybe he someone will dig them up later, it won’t be the first time they exhumed a body to retrieve something on this island.I really just hope that this isn’t a sign of things to come… reinventing the story line to better serve the writers needs. I’m sure we have all heard of shows “jumping the shark”; well this episode of lost started building the ramp in font of the shark tank for me…
TenPin
I don't believe the writers reinvented anything in this episode. I think they knew from when they cast Nikki and Paolo what their purpose would be. We can argue about whether that was a worthy exercise (most people probably coming down on the side of "Not"), but I don't think they just threw this episode together. DL and CC have been talking for at least 2 months about this episode. Ironically, they probably shouldn't have, because it built up an expectation that really fell flat.As for the Pearl Station, it was really only Paolo who knew what it was. Nikki didn't go into it until they went back with the group. Paolo kept mum because of his own selfish agenda. If he tells them about it, he has to explain why he was there in the first place. If that comes out, then Nikki surely suspects that he went there to hide the diamonds.
Actually they both found the station when they saw the plane that Boone got killed in. Paulo only went back after he recovered the diamonds and Locke told him not to bury them on the beach. Paulo wanted to go inside when they first found the hatch, and Nikki wouldn’t let him after he refused to climb up to the Nigerian plane.I guess I missed all the build up to this episode, and the scenes of Nikki and Paulo in the crash do give credibility to the claim this was planned from the beginning, but it still sets a bad precedent and didn’t feel right at all.
Nikki didn't know what it was that they had found, because they didn't go down into the hatch. As far as she knew it was just a "dark tunnel". That's what I meant above. Paolo was the one who went into the hatch later and had the run-in with Ben and Juliet.I'm not sure what precedent it set. This isn't the first time the show has gone back in time and retold the same history through the eyes of someone else. Personally, I like that technique. Maybe it didn't bear as much fruit this time, but as a writing method I think it helps show a much fuller picture. Some folks see it as repetitive, and I won't argue that, but I do find value in it, especially when it's done right. In this case, it seems it was done more as a clever device to give broader perspective to the past 3 seasons. I can see how some find that a waste of time. Personally, I enjoyed it. There was additional value, however, in how it addressed Ethan (albeit briefly) and Ben's plan to get Jack to do the surgery.
LAST EDITED ON 03-29-07 AT 12:57 PM (EST)I thought last night's episode was a good, solid, cleverly written episode. Was it "The Man from Tallahassee"? No. But this is actually a good point in the season to take a breath before the run up to the end.
It may not have moved the plot along, but it did serve some purpose outside of the Nikki/Paolo story.
1) Sawyer managed to put himself back in the Lostie camp's doghouse by a) being exposed as the one who was behind Sun's fake kidnapping, and b) lying about several things regarding Nikki and the diamonds. Thus is the ebb and flow of Sawyer.
2) Charlie got to fess up to Sun, clearing his conscience before he shuffles off this mortal coil (as I believe he will by season's end).
3) (My personal fave) Turns out I was on to something about Ben's list being totally fabricated to get Jack to do the surgery. However, I was off on the timing. It seems this plan was hatched (no pun intended) before the whole "Henry Gale" incident. I wonder now if Ben got captured on purpose (since the offer to Michael could have been as simple as the 4 on the list for Walt), and if so, to what end? Perhaps more importantly, is this subversion of their normal "list" procedures what started the rift in the Others camp? Ben as the selfish mastermind rather than the communitarian leader?
4) We got to see Ethan as trusted camp member. Paolo certainly trusted him more than Mr. Arzt. I'm not sure why, though, because he just gets creepier every time I see him on the show.
5) The walkie-talkie. It's probably a day late and a dollar short for that thing to be of use, but who knows?
I found the writing to be very clever this week. There were a TON of references to themselves (Hurley's fanboy excitement over "Expose" and his finding out that Mr. LaShade was the Cobra...a big bad guy whose identity had been a mystery for 4 seasons), to the fan community (all the "who the hell are these people?" lines), and even to Charlotte's Web (hello Mr. Zuckerman). My personal favorite was Nikki saying "promise me we won't turn out like them", alluding to Boone and Shannon. Of course they DID wind up exactly like them...buried on Boone Hill. Paolo is supposedly the Wolfgang Puck of Brazil, just like Rodrigo Santoro (the actor who plays him) has been referred to as the Tom Cruise of Brazil. Paolo tells Nikki that he'd be crazy to climb up to the plane because it would fall. Mr. Zuckerman asks Nikki if she'd like to return for the next season, and Nikki responds that we all know what happens to guest stars. All very meta. I personally love that stuff. It was almost like the Arrested Development episode.
ETA: There was also a heavy geek salute in the casting of Billy Dee Williams (the guy who was universally hated by the Star Wars community as Lando) to have a cameo in the episode where the universally hated Nikki and Paolo have their 5 minutes in the sun.
I agree completely once again.Plus it gives me hope that the writers are thinking again about every detail they put into a story so that it will fall into place again later. For example: Paolo and him always going to the can.
I was so expecting the item they retrieved from the safe to be a toy airplane.
Well said Ice9. I agree with everything you have posted!I also think that we gained a little more insight into Ben and Juliet's relationship. She is the only one he treats as an equal...this has been less the case in the episodes featuring 'the others'.
You've said everything I would have said about why I liked this ep. Especially about the writing, with all its shoutouts to the fans and acknowledgement of our gripes and dissatisfactions.No, it wasn't as mind-blowing as last week's but few eps will be. It sure wasn't a waste of time, IMHO.
I agree with what some others have said: There's more to this episode than just answering "Who were Nikki and Paulo?" It showed us events from another point of view and gave us nuggets on the plans of The Others. I also completely believe Ben was captured on purpose, although I don't think his plan once he got there worked as well as he'd liked it to.I think the walkie talkie will come in handy. Perhaps to take Sawyer and company over to the Otherville for a rescue mission?
I agree that this episode had a purpose… retracting my waste of time comment, but the way it was done felt very, very forced. Neglecting the Paulo Nikki story line, it was cheap to propel the storyline and history of events through the back-story of some third-tier characters on the show. I still think this is setting a bad precedent for upcoming episodes, writing in useful past events and adding information to fix the story’s outcome
Rather forgettable episode IMO (unless they really *are* dead…then I give it props for anti-hollywoodness).The problem I had with spending an hour with that flashback was that we hadn't been given any reason to like them yet. With Jack/Kate/Sawyer, it seems we knew enough of their good side before getting shown their dark side…but this was just full-on right into "these are bad people." Why would I be interested watching a flashback about losers, who are dead at the end??
(Even if they aren't dead, I don't care what happens to them when they come out of the sand.)
I liked this epi but I have a couple of questions.1. Why - if the others knew Jack was a Doctor so early after the crash - why didnt they just ask him to do the surgery. Why all of the hostility?
2. Eko was forced to leave? Why?
LAST EDITED ON 04-03-07 AT 02:33 PM (EST)1. I believe the answer to this is that Jack only serves Ben's needs, not those of the Others. It was mentioned by Danny Pickett (one of the Others) that Jack wasn't on "Jacob's List". It's been theorized that Jacob is the Head Other. We now know that Kate wasn't on Jacob's List either, thanks to Mikhail. So Ben needed Jack, but it's clear that the Others as a community didn't want him. So Ben had to devise a plan to get Jack to do the surgery. And that may have been what led to some of the Others wanting to rebel against Ben (as Juliet said to Jack).
ETA: Additionally, the Others appear to be a closed off group. They don't seem to want to integrate on anyone's terms but theirs. Approaching Jack would have meant approaching the entire group of 815 survivors, something they clearly weren't comfortable with seeing how they sent Ethan in as a spy. They wanted to keep themselves hidden from the Losties for as long as possible, and even after they had no choice but to confront them, they did so in a deceptive manner (with the fake beards and costumes and such).
2. Eko wasn't forced to leave. He asked to leave. He had originally signed on for about a year, and the writers have said that they planned to kill him off during season 3, but later. Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje, the actor who played Eko, apparently lost both of his parents over the summer. He asked to be released from the show so he could return to his London home to deal with that.
Not sure how to answer your first question just because I'd have to do too much research to back up my answer and I just don't have the time to manage that right now.As for your second question about Eko? He wasn't forced to leave. Apparently he asked to be written out. And then behaved in a way that made the producers, who were reluctant to accommodate him at first because of major plans for his character, decide to give him what he wanted. And so they wrote him out, admitted that the character's demise was lame, and just moved on.
LAST EDITED ON 03-30-07 AT 02:36 PM (EST)Being into zoology as a hobby, and having a fairly strong curiosity about insects, I couldn't help but pick up on a point that Arzt made.
He mentioned having found several species of insects on the island that were unknown to science. If the writers just wanted to show his insect collection, or just the spiders so Nikki would know about their poison, why would they include a reference to Arzt finding previously uncatalogued species (on an uncharted island with mysterious powers)? Could The Others, Dharma and/or the mysterious powers of the Island itself be behind these new species? And does that tie in with a polar bear that can survive in the tropics? Or any other animal anomalies we've been shown? e.g. The frog that Sawyer squished with his hand in an earlier episode was a Dart Frog. If I remember correctly, is was a blue morph of Dendrobates auratus, one of several species native to Central and South America, introduced to Hawaii - nowhere near the location of the Losties' Island, .... so how did it get there?
My initial reaction is that, just like the humans, there are probably animal species indigenous to the island and also ones brought in by Dharma. I'm not sure how much the show will focus on this, but I think it's a safe bet to say that there are both animal species not known anywhere else on earth on the island, as well as relocated animal species that have adapted/modified on the island. How much of that adaptation/modification is Dharma and how much is the island itself? I don't know, and I don't know how much of that will be addressed. Probably only as much as it suits the larger mythology. (Maybe they'll make it the focus of the Lost Experience, Part II.)
Speaking of how much they can fit in the show, CC and the writers subbing for DL said in this week's official podcast that they had broader intentions for Nikki and Paolo, but they just kept getting pushed to the back burner. They also said that they decided back at the end of season 1 to introduce "an actress" from the 815 survivors. I have to say that choosing season 3 to introduce her (and her boyfriend) was ill-conceived. Despite the fact that we're down to 10 from 14 of the original main characters (what with Boone and Shannon dead and Michael and Walt AWOL) and that there's only one of the Tailies still on the beach (not that he--or his wife--have been seen this season), the universe of the Others dominated the first half of the season, not to mention the increase in importance (and associated screen time) of Desmond. Nikki and Paolo never stood a chance of catching on this season.
I have to wonder, though, how much Eko's forced departure screwed up the season 3 plan (at least the beach camp portion of it, anyway).
My question is... if they're unknown to science, then how come Arzt had the latin name for the spider, and knew all about the pheremones/paralyzing effects?/plothole you could drive a Volkswagen through
Just don't tell me what I can't do.
>/plothole you could drive a Volkswagen
>throughYou mean a rusted-out VW Bus with 10+ year old gas and battery, weeds growing all up through the engine, and the skunkiest beer on the planet? I'm choosing not to think about stuff like that, otherwise, I'll be forced to wonder why Paolo didn't have a heart attack when Ben and Juliet showed up at the Pearl Station, considering the only Other he definitely knew of at that point was murderous (and formerly trusted) Ethan.
I was thinking the same thing, how would Artz know about the spider. A junior high science teacher is not going to know every single species of insect well enough to identify previously unknown species, no matter how great his interest. That is when it fell apart for me. It seemed even more contrived and convenient when he announced his female paralyzing spider that would attract hundreds of male paralyzing spiders.
Artz and Gil Grissom could have belonged to the same Entomology Society back in their undergrad days ya know.
'cause that's what it seemed like.
