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Thread Number: 21
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Original Message
"What's in a name?"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 10-21-04 at 12:05 PM
OK, am I trying to read too much into the show by looking at the names of some of these characters and thinking that they were chosen for specific reasons?

Like Boone and Sawyer. Both are names that Americans associate with survival and self-sufficiency on the frontier.

What puzzles me more is the inclusion of John Locke... When his full name was revealed, my friends and I all looked at each other with raised eyebrows and suggested that Thomas Hobbes would have been a much more appropriate name. After all, doesn't it appear that a Hobbesian state of nature is more likely to develop than a Lockean social contract...?

But, then again, Locke is so much a cooler name than Hobbes.

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: What's in a name?"
Posted by Schnookie Palookie on 10-21-04 at 12:19 PM
Isn't Charlie the Hobbit?


Kidding


"RE: What's in a name?"
Posted by zombiebaby on 10-21-04 at 06:40 PM
What puzzles me more is the
inclusion of John Locke...
When his full name was
revealed, my friends and I
all looked at each other
with raised eyebrows and suggested
that Thomas Hobbes would have
been a much more appropriate
name. After all, doesn't
it appear that a Hobbesian
state of nature is more
likely to develop than a
Lockean social contract...?


HD! I have no idea what you are talking about!!!



Handcrafted by RollDdice



"RE: What's in a name?"
Posted by dabo on 10-21-04 at 10:24 PM
http://www.island-of-freedom.com/LOCKE.HTM
http://www.island-of-freedom.com/HOBBES.HTM
"RE: What's in a name?"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 10-22-04 at 11:17 AM
Thanks for the links, dabo!

Perhaps my friends and I have taught Early Modern Europe (and our good friends Hobbes, Locke, and Rousseau) one too many times...

Anyway, we were all thinking of Hobbes' assertion that "Life in an unregulated state of nature is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."

Of course, it will be interesting to see how the castaways structure their new society as the episodes continue. Jack seemed to shy away from wanting to be a tyrant, but others don't seem as squeamish.

"Not at all"
Posted by PhoenixMons on 10-27-04 at 00:02 AM
Spoilers below...

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From TvTome:

Episode 9: Solitary

Sayid's life is placed in grave danger after he stumbles upon the source of the mysterious French transmission, the woman Danielle Rousseau (guest-star Mira Furlan) who was on the distress call is found alive. Meanwhile, Hurley has a ridiculous plan to make life on the island a little more civilized - and it just might work that involves a gulf cource after he finds gulf clubs from the debris. Lastly, we flashback to Sayid's childhood friend Nadia as well as his participation in hostage situations in Iraq.


Looks like some Locke v. Rousseau action.

btw, not sure if it's been mentioned here or not, but John Locke was also a medical doctor, not unlike our Locke.


"Here is my secret. It's quite simple: One sees clearly only with the heart. Anything essential is invisible to the eyes."

"RE: Not at all"
Posted by dabo on 10-27-04 at 02:27 AM
Mira Furlan played Delenn in Babylon 5, she is Yugoslavian by birth. Fantastic actress! Great find, PM!
"RE: Not at all"
Posted by mrc on 10-27-04 at 07:57 AM
Locke is the former paralyzed guy, not the doc, correct?

A PhoenixMons(ter) Siggie
IMHO, the island needs a Tom Paine, just to give the people some common sense. *cough, cough*

"DOH!"
Posted by PhoenixMons on 10-27-04 at 09:04 AM
brain fart! Sorry, you are correct. Maybe that's why no one's mentioned it before


"Here is my secret. It's quite simple: One sees clearly only with the heart. Anything essential is invisible to the eyes."

"RE: DOH!"
Posted by 1derfool on 10-27-04 at 10:37 AM
Are you thinking of John Locke who came up with the Tabula Rasa Theory?

Tabula Rasa is also the name of one episode. I did a search and got this hit on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_rasa

~~~
"Tabula rasa (Latin: blank slate) is the notion that individual human beings are born "blank" (with no built-in mental content), and that their identity is defined entirely by events after birth.

However, two uses of the term in modern usage are fundamentally incongruent.

In John Locke's philosophy, tabula rasa was the theory that the (human) mind is at birth a "blank slate" without rules for processing data, and that data is added and rules for processing it formed solely by our sensory experiences. The notion is central to Lockean empiricism. It is also featured in Sigmund Freud's psychoanalysis. As understood by Locke, tabula rasa meant that the mind of the individual was born "blank", and it also emphasized the individual's freedom to author his or her own soul. Each individual was free to define the content of his or her character -- but his or her basic identity as a member of the human species cannot be so altered. It is this presumption of a free, self-authored mind combined with an immutable human nature, from which the Lockean doctrine of "natural" rights derives.

In recent times, however, tabula rasa has come to be understood fundamentally differently. While the idea that the individual can be changed remains, the power to effect that change is now ascribed to society, not the self -- and that power extends to the whole of human nature. Under this view, one can almost without restriction shape the individual by changing the individual's environment, and thus sensory experiences. In this form, the theory is taken up by many utopian schemes that rely on changing human nature to achieve their goals. As the Lockean idea of natural rightsno longer holds any meaning under such a view (because "natural" now means whatever society chooses to define), many such schemes end up moving towards one form or another of totalitarianism."
~~~~~
John Locke? Coincidence?

I wonder how many of 'our' LOST characters are hoping to start over with a blank slate, keeping their past from the others. Kate is, we know that because she's trying not to reveal she's the prisoner with the handcuffs. Locke probably is, he's quite secretive about his past too.

As long as they're stranded on the island, they can all start with a blank slate, shape their reputations amongst the others by their actions in this new environment. Some of them are already ahead of the others with their new reputations.

"Bravo."
Posted by Angelfood on 10-27-04 at 03:58 PM
Love this.
thanks
"RE: DOH!"
Posted by mrc on 10-27-04 at 12:21 PM
No problem, as long as they don't smell.

A PhoenixMons(ter) Siggie

"My question..."
Posted by Meemo on 10-27-04 at 03:25 PM
Why did they have to go and give a character the name of Charlie, which was Jack's (Matthew Fox's) name when he was on Party of Five. Every time somebody mentions Charlie, I think they're talking about Jack, but in fact, they're talking about the hobbit.

I need a tylenol.


Half man, half amazing, all DAW

"Names"
Posted by Angelfood on 10-27-04 at 03:58 PM
Is it possible that they all have a literary connection?

locke
Sawyer - duh.
Does Charlie have a last name?
Kate - could be something also.

"RE: Names"
Posted by joannie on 10-27-04 at 05:19 PM

>Does Charlie have a last name?

Charlie Pace, I believe.

"Me too!"
Posted by PhoenixMons on 10-27-04 at 04:44 PM
Yep! I was a loyal Po5 watcher, so Matthew Fox will forever be Charlie to me.

Charlie doesn't look like a Charlie anyway...he looks more like a Merridoc


"Here is my secret. It's quite simple: One sees clearly only with the heart. Anything essential is invisible to the eyes."

"RE: My question..."
Posted by Tamena on 10-27-04 at 05:50 PM
How bout Charlie Bucket? As in Charlie and The Chocolate Factory? Maybe the monsters are Oompa Loompas??
*grin*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Karma doesn't come back on people because some universal controller-god pushes buttons. It comes back on people because they dig holes for themselves to fall into.
"RE: My question..."
Posted by tvgeek401 on 12-11-04 at 08:17 PM
LMAO!
Thanks for that. Now I have to go buy a new monitor. Pepsi spit across the screen...

Those oompa loompas are pretty scary!


Handcrafted by RollDdice ignore this space. ignore, ignore, ignore this spaceIcecat is da bomb!

"Well..."
Posted by FesterFan1 on 10-27-04 at 04:22 PM
I don't have much to offer, except to say that in the TV Guide piece this week there's a reference to an Aaron Spelling/Rod Serling show from the late '60s called "The New People" which had a very similar theme. One of the creators of "Lost" said he wished he knew that because he would've named Charlie's band "The New People" instead of "Driveshaft".

So, it's very likely that all the names (or a lot of the names) have alternate meanings.

Fester

"Bumping"
Posted by PhoenixMons on 12-09-04 at 01:03 AM
After someone's mention of names in another thresd, I figured this thresd deserved a *bump*

Some more info on some of the other character's names:

Hurley (means 'tide')... Hugo (Hurley) - could he be tied to Victor Hugo of Hunch back of Notre Dame and Les Miserables acclaim? Victor Hugo did get very involved in French politics during his lifetime and held a strong belief in good prevailing over evil. Hmmmmmm...

Sayid (means 'master' or 'lord'). Sayid/Sayed is a very common Arabic name so without knowing his full name, it would be rather impossible to make any sort of guesses as to the relevance of his name other than possibly just the meaning of Sayid itself

Walt - Walt Disney? LOL. No, but perhaps Walt Whitman? Spoilerish stuff to follow...DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW!!!

There is a lot of talk about Walt and his possible "perceptions" or "intuitions" (touched on the subject in tonight's episode with the "luck" theme) - he saw a polar bear in a comic, then there was one on the island, his father said something about finding the dog when it stopped raining and it immediately stopped raining. And the title of the Walt/Michael episode is "Special". Hmmmm...well...that TOTALLY picqued my interest because of the poet Walt Whitman. I haven't yet seen this idea discussed on any of the Lost boards...so here goes. Walt Whitman was/is associated with transcendentalism...transcendentalism is typically linked with Immanuel Kant...Kant's philosophies were pretty much in stark contrast with those of...guess who? John Locke. Pretty interesting given the seeming connection between Locke and Walt on the island. Transcendentalism is about more of the inner spirituality and nature...intuition.

Claire (last name is Littleton according to a few sites noting this from last week's episode). Scott Littleton (King Arthur/holy grail literature), perhaps? The holy grail with the power to heal wounds - Claire with the power to heal her baby from whatever so-called "evil"...hmmmmmm - oh and Claire means 'bright/clear'

I'm all tapped out right now...maybe I'll think of something else to add in the morning!


"RE: Bumping"
Posted by motormouth on 12-09-04 at 02:52 AM
Holy carp PM! I am so glad we have peeps like you who do all the serious thinking. It makes it so much easier for me.



*Courtesy of IceCat*

"RE: Bumping"
Posted by joannie on 12-09-04 at 11:11 AM
LAST EDITED ON 12-09-04 AT 01:43 PM (EST)

>Walt - Walt Disney? LOL

I've heard that Walt and Michael are nods to Walt Disney and Disney/ABC honcho Michael Eisner.

Walt Disney was known for his wonderful imagination. Maybe the imagination of our Walt has the possibiblity of becoming true.

*edited to fix spelling

"Funny!"
Posted by PhoenixMons on 12-09-04 at 12:01 PM
Actually, before I got thinking about other Walts, I started typing up some little parallel to Walt Disney - the whole imagination coming to life thing. Then once I realized that Walt Whitman made more sense in terms of the rest of the characters and being that Locke and Walt seem to have a real connection - I figured I'd go with the Whitman angle. But it could very well be both!

And Michael = Michael Eisner? Yikes! I was trying to figure out if their last name was out there yet, but I don't think it is. Figured his parallel was in his last name...

Thanks for the info.

"RE: Bumping"
Posted by jkokoj on 12-09-04 at 11:48 AM
"And the children shall lead the way"

I caught on to Walt's luck last night and reading here today, there may be more into Claire's baby and Walt, being that they are the children on the island.

You peeps are great. All this analysis is amazing. Good job!


"RE: What's in a name?"
Posted by BigDog1974 on 12-09-04 at 11:25 AM
As far as names, Jack's last name is Shepard..Kinda fitting since he is turning out to be the leader of the group, much like an actual shepard.
"RE: What's in a name?"
Posted by MissMyth on 12-09-04 at 12:45 PM
Motormouth, thank you for your welcome.
Volsfan and Phoenixmons, thanks for helping me learn to negotate the threads. Maybe I'll get the hang of it.

Great ideas on all the names.
Hurley's name, Reyes, means king. Wasn't the comment he made about being known as a warrior interesting?

Jack's name is Shepherd? That opens up all sorts of possibilites.

"To summarize . . . "
Posted by mrc on 12-09-04 at 02:13 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-09-04 AT 02:18 PM (EST)

We have:

Jack Sheppard/Shepherd--English thief or a herder of sheep (PhoenixMons)

John Locke--English philosopher/political theorist (HistoryDetective)

Walt ?--Walt Whitman or Walt Disney (Phoenix Mons)

? Sawyer--Tom Sawyer? (HistoryDetective)

Sayid ?--"Sayid (means 'master' or 'lord')" (PhoenixMons)

Kate ?--"The name Kate (diminutive of Katherine) means pure" (PhoenixMons)

? Boone--Daniel Boone (HistoryDetective)

Shannon ?--Doherty of 90210, Charmed, and Little House fame?

Michael ?--Michael Eisner (joannie)

Jin ?--"Jin = truth" (PhoenixMons)

Sun ?--"Sun = goodness" (PhoenixMons)

Claire (Littleton?)--"Scott Littleton (King Arthur/holy grail literature)" (PhoenixMons)

Charlie (Pace?)--Charles Darwin? (mrc)

Hurley--"Hurley (means 'tide') Hugo (Hurley) - could he be tied to Victor Hugo of Hunch back of Notre Dame and Les Miserables acclaim?" (PhoenixMons) "Hurley's name, Reyes, means king" (MissMyth) I would add that Hurley mentioned that his name was a nickname--anyone remember his real name?

Danielle Rousseau--French philosopher

ETA:

Ethan ?--?


Slice & Dice Chop Shop 2004

"RE: To summarize . . . "
Posted by PhoenixMons on 01-03-05 at 03:13 PM
Hugo is Hurley's real name (hence the mention of Hugo )

Also Sawyer's real name is apparently Leslie (one of the Lost writers mentioned this somewhere on the Fuselage forum). Interesting, but not really helpful yet since we still don't have a last name.

And Ethan's full name is Ethan Rom. As in Ethan Frome? Or ROM like Read-only memory? Or just an anagram for "other man"? Or all of the above?


"RE: To summarize . . . "
Posted by mrc on 01-04-05 at 08:52 AM
Ah, I can see clearly now.

Slice & Dice Chop Shop 2004
I nominate this thread as the best of 2005, feelings be damned.

"Sun & Jin / Jack Sheppard / Kate"
Posted by PhoenixMons on 12-09-04 at 12:33 PM
Sun & Jin - common Korean names, but the meanings are interesting. Sun = goodness. Jin = truth. Would help to know their full names, but knowing this is a start.

Jack Sheppard - Jack Sheppard was a famous British thief. Not sure if this makes any sense with the storyline of Lost...but just putting it out there since they share the same name. I always figured Jack's name was about being a shepherd...leading the flock.

The name Kate (diminutive of Katherine) means pure...wish we knew her last name...I don't think it's on the mug shot picture.

"RE: Sun & Jin / Jack Sheppard / Kate"
Posted by jkokoj on 12-09-04 at 01:22 PM
Jack is also a nickname, short for John.


"*bump*"
Posted by mrc on 01-03-05 at 11:52 AM
Wanted to bump this and point out post #27 as the new eps begin.

Slice & Dice Chop Shop 2004

"Kate"
Posted by trigirl on 01-06-05 at 11:01 AM
LAST EDITED ON 01-06-05 AT 11:26 AM (EST)

From January 5th at the bank:

Maggie
Miss Ryan

She showed ID to the bank manager. Fake ID or did the it have her real name on it...perhaps Kathryn Ryan?

edited to add:

There was a Katherine Ryan who was known as 'Klondike Kate'. The legend of Klondike Kate is interesting. She was this kind yet strong woman who took charge in the Klondike, yet her reputation got sullied by a prostitute named Kitty who took over the moniker 'Klondike Kate' and was not as nice as Katherine. Two different women, one legend.

Or could it be as simple as a writer's crush on Meg Ryan (Maggie Ryan)?

"Not sure"
Posted by zombiebaby on 01-06-05 at 06:42 PM
But I thought she told the banker that her name was Anna? THen the bank robber referred to her as Maggie.

I could be mistaken though.


One more of J Slice's Awesome Creations!

"RE: What's in a name?"
Posted by realitycoholic on 01-07-05 at 00:46 AM
After last night's epi, I noticed that the woman's name who is comforting and praying for/with Charlie is Rose. First thought: two of the names of Jesus are the "Rose of Bethlehem" and "Rose of Sharon". Am I right that her name is Rose? If so, it fits with the part she plays in this show...

"Ethan"
Posted by trigirl on 01-18-05 at 09:02 AM
I know that there are the theories out there about 'Ethan Rom' being 'Other Man' and I like that theory and it makes sense. But...thought I would add my own silly thoughts.

It has been really bugging me that Ethan Rom is from Ontario. As an Ontarian, all I can think of when I hear Ethan Rom is the ROM. The ROM is the 'Royal Ontario Museum' and is known for its initialism that way MoMA is. It is now a word in our lexicon.

Can't hurt to share.