URL: http://community.realitytvworld.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/rtvw2/community/dcboard.cgi
Forum: DCForumID75
Thread Number: 1
[ Go back to previous page ]
Original Message
"Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by buscemi on 09-10-04 at 09:30 AM
If he watched the show last season, he saw 2 important things:

1. When it was women vs. men, women never lost.
2. When a team with women lost, the women turned on themselves, not the men, and took each other out.

So, he volunteers to be the guy who switches teams and becomes the PM for the women. Okay, so now it's very likely that he gets a win as PM b/c of the women vs. men thing (and they do win). This also gives him exemption for next week. Even if the team lost or loses in the next few weeks, the women are likely to turn on themselves, not him. Smart move overall, I think.

Conversely, I thik it was a dumb move by Pamela to join the guy's team, which I think she found out last night.

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by rtrader on 09-10-04 at 09:43 AM
Agreed. The other smart decision that he made was that when he realized his pet idea (the moving guy in a football helmet) wasn't going anywhere, he was willing to backtrack and go with the moving crash car. My nephew loves moving cars, so whoever came up with that idea was on the right track in knowing what little boys like.
"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by mochiba on 09-10-04 at 11:02 AM
I agree it was a good move. it took guts to volunteer to lead the women only a few minutes after meeting everyone. Unfortunately I think his win was pretty much luck. His managing style, if you want to call it that was horrendous. When he decided on his horrible creation for the toy (still not sure what it was) he was like a five year old child who wouldn't listen to anyone and especially a woman. I feel he's not very comfortable interacting with women. But the best line had to be when he first walked over to the girls camp and one of them said "who are you". His response- in typical Animal House fashion "Oh I'm the Bradford" OK dude...sheesh.
"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by okaychatt on 09-10-04 at 11:08 AM
"he was like a five year old child who wouldn't listen to anyone and especially a woman."

I agree - his manner had a touch of overwhelmed panic about it.


Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by rtrader on 09-10-04 at 11:48 AM
Since he's 'immune' for one week, the way he behaves on the ladies team ought to be interesting to watch. Will he try to contribute in a meaningful way, or will he become real obnoxious?
"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by xserver on 09-10-04 at 11:55 AM
I doubt anyone would use the immunity to sabotage anyone. For one thing, Trump & his sidekicks would surely notice this and use it against them in subsequent boardrooms.

Also everyone might turn against them, and we all saw what this did to Rob.

"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by subman on 09-13-04 at 10:12 PM
Don't you mean will he become even more obnoxious?
"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by subman on 09-11-04 at 01:31 PM
I think that he was unaware that women (may) have a different decision making style than men, yet he wasn't willing to stand back a little and let this process work. He just imposed his will over the others and said "my team..my decision" which is why I pegged him as being Nick-like because Nick pulled the same thing last season and won. Also, Nick was saying things like "ride this horse and I'll take you..blah..blah.." and Brad had his "I'm the Brad" moment.
"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by xserver on 09-10-04 at 12:02 PM
Yeah..I agree with this assessment. But I also think it would be incredibly difficult for anyone to effectively mold 8 Type A people (who you didn't even get to choose) into a team in ONE day. Remember the chaos on the women's lemonade-selling team? As the teams get smaller and people get to know one another the PMs will get more effective.
"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by subman on 09-13-04 at 10:18 PM
True enough, but did Bradford make his decision on the basis of his first week as PM, or, does he think that he will enjoy working with "the women" for the next 15 weeks? I think he will find that he is incompatible working with women and how they make decisions. He may be immune next week, but sooner or later, he will be teamed up with the scary lady and they'll form one of those human balls like you see on cartoons (when I used to watch cartoons).
"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by frodo2 on 09-14-04 at 11:55 AM
At some point, they'll reshuffle the teams.
"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by subman on 09-14-04 at 01:49 PM
That's true; however, if by a miracle Bradford is still around when that time comes, there is nothing to say that he would be moved back with the men. If the change was for good, he'll stay on that team and either women will leave or other men will come over, but I think that he stays where he's at. This is all academic because I think he's gone within three shows.
"Bradford's decision (and ivana's stupid idea)"
Posted by frodo2 on 09-11-04 at 05:10 AM
He wasn't doing so well at first, but that he was willing to change a decision when he saw it wouldn't work indicates he's a level up in intelligence. I think the reason he forced a decision at first was that the women were too indecisive about the name, then later about the toy.
One thing is, the win or the loss was totally his. Since he tailored the idea for the clients when they met, the women had no real input in the toy. He would have been fired if it failed.

And the idea for a "drag queen toy" for boys was horrendously stupid. Ivana should have been fired for even mentioning it. Sexual dimorphism is stronger at that age than later in adulthood, so boys go out of their way to avoid being like girls. Would any parent buy a 6-8 year old boy a gay toy? I'm not bashing gays, I'm saying that the idea would be a public relations disaster and rejected by boys that age in a way that would make adults shudder. A small local toy company could try it for special families, but a big company like Mattel would never get away with it.

And as far as the woman (can't remember which) who commented that today's kids want sophisticated toys, that's not necessarily true. Boys like technically sophisticated toys like the transformers, but that's the 9+ market. 6-8 year olds boys tend to want toys that let them mirror the adult men in their lives. Trucks, cars, legos, miniature gas stations, that kind of thing works.

"RE: Bradford's decision (and ivana's stupid idea)"
Posted by rtrader on 09-11-04 at 09:35 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-11-04 AT 10:03 AM (EST)

And the idea for a "drag queen toy" for boys was horrendously stupid. Ivana should have been fired for even mentioning it. Sexual dimorphism is stronger at that age than later in adulthood, so boys go out of their way to avoid being like girls. Would any parent buy a 6-8 year old boy a gay toy? I'm not bashing gays, I'm saying that the idea would be a public relations disaster and rejected by boys that age in a way that would make adults shudder. A small local toy company could try it for special families, but a big company like Mattel would never get away with it.

And as far as the woman (can't remember which) who commented that today's kids want sophisticated toys, that's not necessarily true. Boys like technically sophisticated toys like the transformers, but that's the 9+ market. 6-8 year olds boys tend to want toys that let them mirror the adult men in their lives. Trucks, cars, legos, miniature gas stations, that kind of thing works.

Couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't believe that woman who suggested that gay toy? What was she thinking! Even if there are kids who would have been interested, the market would be very small, and I would think a toy company would want broad appeal to sell as many toys as possible. And I know from first hand experience that little boys do emulate their dads wanting to play with cars, trucks, trains, etc.

"RE: Bradford's decision (and ivana's stupid idea)"
Posted by beardance58 on 09-15-04 at 12:23 PM
what about the woman who suggested the Easy-Bake Oven, hello? I thought Bradford made a good decision, he kept the other ideas in the back of his head, and he didn't waste valuable time trying to come up with a consensus. sometimes that has to be done. Look at all the names they came up with <sheesh>. Talk about wasting time.
"RE: Bradford's decision (and ivana's stupid idea)"
Posted by subman on 09-15-04 at 01:24 PM
I thought that Bradford seemed (was edited as being) very impatient and inflexible with the women when selecting a concept and then surprisingly flexible when speaking with the client. Also, he admitted that if his dictatorial style does not work, he grudingly will explore the working of the democratic process i.e. majority rules, voting..etc. My impression is that, as a lawyer, Bradford reads the situation at hand very well and once he determined that his idea was tanking he then backpeddled, suggesting his team's idea. Bradford, although annoyingly smarmy, is a survivor and will be a tough competitor until he loses his temper an an inopportune moment which he will.
"RE: Bradford's decision (and ivana's stupid idea)"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 09-16-04 at 10:21 AM
First, I don't think that Ivana was ever serious about the drag queen wardrobe for little boys. I took it as a joke thown out during the brainstorming process, something that made the atmosphere a little more jovial and open to all kinds of suggestions instead of stiff and serious. I also thought that it might have been a helpful "suggestion" because it forced them all to evaluate their assumptions about toys for boys. They needed to push the limits by coming up with an idea that was innovative yet still appropriate for the demographic. The drag queen wardrobe was obviously not a "winner" and I did not hear Ivana advocate for it beyond throwing the idea out there, but it did help them to zero in on the types of toys that most little boys would want to play with.

Second, I thought that women realized that the toys they had as children (indeed, as little girls) were not likely to attract the attention of today's little boy. The comment about the Easy-Bake Oven was to the tune of "How do we take an Easy-Bake Oven and convert it into something a boy would like? Would that be some sort of volcano?" They never intended to market an Easy-Bake Oven to boys; they wanted to take the technology of the Easy-Bake Oven and use it to create a toy that would interest little boys.

"RE: Bradford's decision (and ivana's stupid idea)"
Posted by qwertypie on 09-16-04 at 01:09 PM
Actually, there is an easy bake oven for boys -- it's called QUEASY BAKE OVEN and the boys goet to make all sorts of gross edible slimy things.


Slice & Dice Chop Shop 2004

"RE: Bradford's decision (and ivana's stupid idea)"
Posted by okaychatt on 09-11-04 at 09:51 AM
""drag queen toy" for boys was horrendously stupid"

Absolutely ridiculous!

Your analysis of the toy market for boys is a good one. That might have been a better point for the team to start from - define the exact market, ask for information on what has worked in the past, then move forward. They may not have had much time to do that, but surely an informed Mattel employee could have given them a quick synopsis, just as you have.

I wonder what the rules say about gathering information, and whether they are allowed to do research first, however cursory it might be.

More proof that these ambitious peeps aren't always thinking straight. Perhaps the Panic Factor plays too heavy a role.

It sure makes for fun tv, though.


Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by Huh on 09-11-04 at 12:50 PM
"So, he volunteers to be the guy who switches teams and becomes the PM for the women. Okay, so now it's very likely that he gets a win as PM b/c of the women vs. men thing (and they do win). This also gives him exemption for next week. Even if the team lost or loses in the next few weeks, the women are likely to turn on themselves, not him. Smart move overall, I think."

LMAO!!! I completely agree with you. Why do women do this? It's so sad. Just to give an example: When the toy task was finished and APEX had won, they all went to Trump's place for dinner and Trump congratulated them on their win. Trump then asked the question, "so how was Bradford as a Project Manager?" I heard a voice say "oh, he was excellent!" Now I'm thinking to myself isn't he the same guy that wouldn't listen to anyone else's ideas and made an executive decision to use his booty idea. Didn't they all get pissed with him. I remember Maria saying she wanted to rip his head off or something to that affect.

"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by ARnutz on 09-11-04 at 02:53 PM
You know, buscemi, we may not always agree... but I absolutely agree with you on Bradford!! I think he made an instant good impression on me!

He had enough bawls to jump up & be on the women's team (some of those guys looked like they would have rather gone home than work with the women)... this was also a good move because, why not be one of the first PM's??

All these people whining about how business is not a "dictatorship" don't get it... if you are the boss, whether you own or run that company, you have the ultimate decision and also the ultimate blame if the idea doesn't make it! It's not dictating, it's an "executive decision".

So kudos to Bradford!

"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by okaychatt on 09-11-04 at 03:28 PM
Of course the boss has the right to make an executive decision.

However, a boss that does that out of a sense of feeling overwhelmed and underappreciated and without a team willing to support him won't last long. Bradford was PM for ONE task. He was not assigned a long term position.

The idea was trashed immediately by the Mattel people in the know, don't forget.

He did not lead his team to victory. He just got lucky because one of the women came up with a better alternative that won the challenge.



Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by subman on 09-13-04 at 10:32 PM
I disagree. The editing may have shown Bradford as being overly impatient, but the fact is that men and women use different team decision making techniques and if Bradford was not aware of this, he soon will be. While in the end, it may be the perrogative of the team leader to override the work of the team with an "executive decision", its demoralizing to team unity when this occurs. I don't think that BF was making a decision on the "best" idea from the team, he was just tired of working through the team's creative process. Although his actions were expedient add within his authority, what goes around comes around and my hunch is that "the Bradford" will not cave in on his ideas the first time a women tells him "my team, my responsibility". Also, I seem to remember Trump fortelling actual violence in this season's challenges (more hostility all of the time) and if a couple of the players on Apex come together in a bad way, his predictions (after the fact) will come true.
"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by moxieinthecity on 09-13-04 at 12:02 PM
Bradford knew exactly what he was doing when he switched.

As far as his "executive decision" maing, as we saw in the extended version on Saturday his team was brainstorming/conceptualizing until 11pm where as Pamela's team was done at 4pm. Hence Trumps "Be Quick but Be Careful" lesson. We were led to believe that that little snippet was about Bradford. It wasn't. It was about Pamela.

I think Bradford stepped in to make his "executive decision" while they were determinging which of 2-3 toy suggestions to pitch FIRST, not which one to go with period since they were pretty fast on their feet with a second choice of toy. And since they had limited time to pitch to the toy makers, THAT'S why Bradford wanted to out an end to the back and forth crap. Those women were chatting all over each other. I don't think he was overwhwelmed at all. I think he was just annjoyed at how these women all were stepping on each others words.

While women have a tendency to be more creative and detailed, men-in my experience-offer stronger structure and discipline. So, to me, he's a good fit for the women's team.

Pamela, on the other hand, is just LOST.

If you noticed in the axtended boardroom scenes, the guys all tripped over themseolves trying to spin Bradford's decision as a bad one. Mainly because they knew he made the smarter choice. A choice ANY of them could have made but were too uneasy to do. The fact that Chris went and childlishly slammed Bradford was a Yoooge mistake. From what I've seen in dealing with men, guys never ##### or gossip about another guy behind their back UNLESS their threatened by them. Now Trump nows that Bradford is one to watch.

"RE: Great decision by Bradford"
Posted by LBIslander on 09-13-04 at 12:51 PM

Great decision or not I think "The Bragford" is obnoxious and sleezy and will not last long. Nobody there can stand the guy already!!

As far as Ivana's drag queen remarks..I think it was just meant to get a laugh and not a serious idea, however it cooked her goose for the job, for sure. Bad judgment to risk being perceived as a basher and also putting a sexual element into a forum about what ideally should be innocent childsplay.