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Original Message
"It Was Deliberate."

Posted by kidflash212 on 03-26-15 at 10:37 AM
Co-pilot of Germanwings flight 9525 crashed the plane in the Alps deliberately.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/alone-at-controls-co-pilot-sought-to-destroy-the-plane/ar-AAa1d9O

Don't even know what to say. How incredibly sad for the families.


Table of contents

Messages in this discussion
"RE: It Was Deliberate."
Posted by Agman2 on 03-26-15 at 10:46 AM
This was terrible. It really makes you wonder what could drive someone to do such a horrific thing. I agree with KF, this is very sad for the families of the people on board.


"RE: It Was Deliberate."
Posted by newsomewayne on 03-27-15 at 02:16 PM
I wish you hadn't used KF for Mr. Flash. It made me start looking around for a KeithFan post.

"RE: It Was Deliberate."
Posted by Agman2 on 03-29-15 at 00:46 AM
gotcha! mwahahahahahaha..........sh!t, I forgot about Keithfan!!!

"RE: It Was Deliberate."
Posted by foonermints on 03-26-15 at 11:12 AM
Pretty incredible AND horrific.

My heart goes out to the families as well.



"RE: It Was Deliberate."
Posted by dabo on 03-26-15 at 04:52 PM
Nothing I have read here actually indicates that the co-pilot could not have suddenly died from a brain aneurysm and fallen on the controls while everyone else was locked out of the cockpit.

No one should ever be left alone of the cockpit of a plane in flight.


"RE: It Was Deliberate."
Posted by foonermints on 03-26-15 at 04:59 PM
Amen!

"RE: It Was Deliberate."
Posted by kidflash212 on 03-26-15 at 07:08 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-26-15 AT 07:10 PM (EST)

Unfortunately, they can hear him breathing calmly while the plane descends and the controls which caused the plane to descend and crash are located above the pilot/co-pilots head meaning someone had to reach up and set it to an altitude of 100 feet (which is what the co-pilot did).

Also the cabin door can be unlocked from the outside unless someone inside is purposely overriding the person outside the door.


"RE: It Was Deliberate."
Posted by foonermints on 03-26-15 at 07:49 PM
Sounds right, a detective I am NOT.


I worked with a government program that armed pilots in civilian aircraft. Problem was, they wound up either shooting one another or shooting out the avionics.
Dropped THAT idea pronto.
I like SkyMarshals. They are very well trained, and thats exactly what you need, in my opinion.


"RE: It Was Deliberate."
Posted by dabo on 03-26-15 at 10:11 PM
I defer, you clearly have better data.

"RE: It Was Deliberate."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 03-27-15 at 08:24 AM
LAST EDITED ON 03-27-15 AT 08:53 AM (EST)

>Nothing I have read here actually indicates that the co-pilot could
>not have suddenly died from a brain aneurysm and fallen
>on the controls while everyone else was locked out of
>the cockpit.

• German investigators have found a medical leave note from a doctor issued for Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz that included the day of the crash, the Dusseldorf public prosecutor's office said. The ripped-up medical note said that he should not fly.

• The prosecutor's office did not say if the medical leave note related to a physical or a mental health issue but said Lubitz appeared to have been under treatment by a doctor for some time.

• The fact that Lubitz appears to have ripped up recent medical leave notes "leads to the preliminary conclusion that the deceased kept his illness secret from his employer and his professional environment."

• Investigators found no goodbye letter, and no evidence of political or religious motivation, the prosecutor's office said.


"Summary of the right-wing site discussions."
Posted by Estee on 03-27-15 at 08:40 AM
1. Muslim.
2. No matter what anyone says, Muslim.
3. Obama's lying about him not being Muslim in order to protect his Muslim underlings.
4. Why couldn't the suspect have been piloting Air Force One?

None of those are jokes.

But then the Freedom To Let Gay People Die In Your ER law passed in Indiana, and they went back to praising their merciful Lord.


"RE: Summary of the right-wing site discussions."
Posted by kingfish on 03-27-15 at 09:19 AM
##### Cheney was a Muslim.

What?

Serious: It was just an unbelievable that an airline would ever allow a single person to be in complete and sole charge of an airliner. Statistically, with the thousands of flights daily, it is inevitable that this would happen sooner or later.

There was also that Malaysian airplane that was lost in the Indian ocean.


"RE: Summary of the right-wing site discussions."
Posted by Estee on 03-27-15 at 09:27 AM
Some of the more sane/informed people in the discussions said that for the States, there's a law in place: you can never have one person alone in the cockpit. If one pilot leaves, someone else has to go inside for the duration, from flight attendants on up. It looks like Europe may not have that regulation.

It's a pretty safe bet that they'll put it in place pretty quickly now.


"RE: Summary of the right-wing site discussions."
Posted by kidflash212 on 03-27-15 at 09:30 AM
Speaking of Cheney, I wonder if a restaurant in Indiana would refuse to serve him if he showed up with his daughter and her partner.

"RE: Summary of the right-wing site discussions."
Posted by Estee on 03-27-15 at 01:54 PM
It amazes me that you think he'd be seen with his daughter in public.

Well, maybe a public stoning.


"RE: Summary of the right-wing site discussions."
Posted by newsomewayne on 03-27-15 at 02:15 PM
None of those are jokes. <citation needed>

But then the Freedom To Let Gay People Die In Your ER law passed in Indiana,<citation needed>
and they went back to praising their merciful Lord.
<citation needed>


"RE: Summary of the right-wing site discussions."
Posted by Estee on 03-27-15 at 05:50 PM
Breitbart.

Stormfront.

Are you really sure you want direct links?


"RE: Summary of the right-wing site discussions."
Posted by dabo on 03-28-15 at 01:01 PM
President Reagan signed into a law measure that prohibits hospitals turning away anyone needing emergency room treatments. The measure only covers hospitals which receive federal funds, but it is a law.

"RE: Summary of the right-wing site discussions."
Posted by Estee on 03-28-15 at 01:31 PM
The issues being:

1. Number of fully private hospitals with no federal funding in Indiana.

2. Number of doctors who either aren't aware of the law or will claim temporary ignorance after the fact.

#1 may be a pretty low number, especially depending on how you define 'receive federal funds'. I don't think taking Medicare would qualify, but until I see the written definition in the regulations...


"Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA)"
Posted by dabo on 03-28-15 at 03:39 PM
http://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Legislation/EMTALA/index.html?redirect=/emtala/

"RE: Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA)"
Posted by Estee on 03-28-15 at 04:42 PM
Thank you. Very helpful.

"As predicted: no more solo flights."
Posted by Estee on 03-27-15 at 06:01 PM
The States regulation requiring two people to be in the cockpit at all times is now in effect for Europe.

"Evidence just makes things worse."
Posted by Estee on 03-27-15 at 06:11 PM
From what I've been reading, investigators found a doctor's note in his apartment, one which excused him from flying that day. Basically, he'd been declared unfit to work. And the note was in the trash.

What kind of illness? There's unsourced (or unnamed) accounts saying it was mental. He'd been to a clinic within the last month. It may be possible to get his physician to talk. But for now, we don't know. Just that the airline seems to have been in the dark.

We seem to be on track for an answer. It won't be a comforting one.


"RE: Evidence just makes things worse."
Posted by foonermints on 03-28-15 at 09:15 PM
I heard the same.

"The audio transcripts."
Posted by Estee on 03-30-15 at 07:17 AM
The German newspaper Bild claims to have gotten a copy, and it's been spreading out from there.

According to that article, this was the timeline.

German paper's timeline of Flight 9525's final moments

By Frederik Pleitgen, CNN

Updated 10:14 AM ET, Sun March 29, 2015

(CNN)German tabloid newspaper Bild has released what is claims is a summary of the timeline from downed Germanwings Flight 9525.

The timeline is based on the data recorded on one of the "black boxes" recovered from the wreckage. A transcript of the cockpit voice recording has not been released, and Bild cites sources close to the investigation for the information.

CNN translated Bild's report but cannot independently verify the information. The timeline provides one of the most detailed descriptions of the plane's final moments:

According to Bild:

• There are 1.5 hours of sound on the voice recorder.

• The flight took off 20 minutes late, and Capt. Patrick Sondenheimer apologizes for the delay and says they will try and make up for it in the air.

• Even before takeoff, the captain tells co-pilot Andreas Lubitz that he didn't manage to go to the bathroom in Barcelona. Lubitz tells him he can go anytime.

• The plane reaches its cruising altitude of 38,000 feet at 10:27 a.m. local time.

• The captain asks the co-pilot to prepare the landing.

• After the check, Lubitz repeats to the captain, "You can go now." There is the sound of a seat moving backward. After that, the captain is heard saying, "You can take over."

• At 10:29 a.m., air traffic radar detects that the plane is beginning to descend.

• At 10:32 a.m., air traffic controllers contact the plane and receive no answer. Almost at the same time, an alarm goes off in the cockpit saying "sink rate."

• Shortly after there is a loud bang on the door. The pilot can be heard screaming, "For God's sake, open the door!" Passengers can be heard screaming in the background.

• At 10:35 a.m., loud metallic bangs can be heard as though someone is trying to knock down the door. The plane is at about 23,000 feet.

• Ninety seconds later, another alarm goes off: "Terrain -- pull up!" The plane is at about 16,400 feet. The captain is heard screaming, "Open the damn door!"

• At 10:38 a.m., the plane is descending toward the French Alps, and the co-pilot can be heard breathing. The plane is at about 13,100 feet.

• At 10:40 a.m., it sounds like the plane's right wing scrapes a mountaintop, then screams can be heard one more time. Those are the last sounds on the voice recorder.

*moment of silence*

I've also seen reports that Lubitz spent time encouraging Sondenheimer to hit the bathroom and possibly making other suggestions to get him out of the cockpit. There's also a story claiming Lubitz's girlfriend -- the one who'd just broken up with him -- is pregnant and informed him of it prior to the split. Contributing factor? Who knows. I just have pity for the child, and hope his ex gets far away from all this.

But I think at this point, we can remove this tragedy from 'spontaneous decision'. He may not have been planning it for long, but it was planned.


"RE: The audio transcripts."
Posted by kingfish on 03-30-15 at 10:51 AM
Well, obviously, pee retention training needs to be added to commercial a pilot's required reading.

Or they should just have to drive a taxi for a couple of years. (I learned to hold it for a full 12 hour shift).


"RE: It Was Deliberate."
Posted by Estee on 03-31-15 at 05:05 PM
So there's now a report that one of the passengers shot video as the plane was going down, with the chip recovered and readable.

I'm curious to see who's going to air it first. In a nauseated sort of way.