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Original Message
"“This is a big f—— deal.” — Vice President Joe Biden"
Posted by newsomewayne on 11-11-14 at 11:14 AM
Yes it is, Joe. Yes it is.

Ladies and gentlefish, I present to you the most transparent administration in our nation's history:

Opaque is the new transparency

In other words, if we are too stupid to know what is best for us...

Scratch that. In other words, Since, as our Federal Overlords know beyond all doubt, that we are too stupid to know what is best for us, we must be deceived and cajoled and berated into submission to achieve what they know is in our best interests, despite all misgivings or evidence to the contrary. To quote Bill Whittle, "that’s the Progressive nightmare: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may escape being told what to do."

“We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.” — then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi

Turns out there was more truth to this quote than I ever realized.

To save someone some time:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/gruber.asp


U.S. Government: Doing everything you used to do yourself for you since 2008.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." - Thomas Jefferson

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: “This is a big f—— deal.” — Vice President Joe Biden"
Posted by Estee on 11-11-14 at 11:54 AM
Does this bother me? Yes.

Does every major American political party do the exact same thing at pretty much every opportunity while thinking exactly the same thing about the constituents they will never bother to represent? Yes.

Still bothers me? Uh-huh.

"RE: “This is a big f—— deal.” — Vice President Joe Biden"
Posted by kingfish on 11-12-14 at 11:17 AM
Such is life in a "sort of" Representative Democracy. To say we are evolved is a little misleading.
"RE: “This is a big f—— deal.” — Vice President Joe Biden"
Posted by HobbsofMI on 11-12-14 at 12:07 PM
You can't use Snopes as a source....they are in bed with the Dem's.

I've been told that lie over and over by one side.


sig Syren, bouncy by IceCat, bobble head by Tribephyl, and snoglobe by agman

"RE: “This is a big f—— deal.” — Vice President Joe Biden"
Posted by kingfish on 11-12-14 at 05:50 PM
What really seems weird to me is that when they passed Obamacare, Democrats controlled the House, the Senate, and the Executive branch. IOW they were able to cram the legislation down the throats of the American people without having to pay any attention to anyone from the other side who disagreed with them, in line with the typical (IMO) Democratic attitude that the government knows better than we do about what's good for us and how we should conduct our lives.

So, in order to pass the legislation, they didn’t actually have to obfuscate! They actually controlled Government. Did they do it because they felt they had to lie to their party supporters in order to keep it from being an issue that would cause them problems in upcoming elections?

The 2014 midterm results are really the only possible way an electorate should react to that kind of thinking.

OK. Both sides lie and obfuscate. I guess this is more a lesson in placing trust in legislation that is passed by either side in such a blatantly partisan way.

"RE: “This is a big f—— deal.” — Vice President Joe Biden"
Posted by newsomewayne on 11-18-14 at 10:04 AM
The 2014 midterm results are really the only possible way an electorate should react to that kind of thinking.

I can name someone who disagrees with that assessment. I'll give you a hint. His name rhymes with Osama.

Don't you just love his response when asked about Gruber? "That guy? I suppose he could've been in the room once when we were talking about this. It doesn't mean he had a part in writing it." (not a direct quote)

I think what I find most infuriating about his response is this, "We had a year-long debate, Ed. I mean, go back and look at your stories. The one thing we can't is that we did not have a lengthy debate about health care in the United States of America. Or that it was not adequately covered. I would just advise -- every press outlet here, go back and pull up every clip, every story, and I think it will -- it's fair to say there was not a provision in the health care law that was not extensively debated and was fully transparent." (direct quote)

No, Mr. President. Just no. It was debated, but it was in no way transparent.* A transparent debate would have been a large scale listing of pros and cons and deciding which direction was more beneficial based on that comparison. What has been brought to light now is that almost all of your 'pro' arguments were nothing but lies. Not mistakes. Not errors in judgement. L.I.E.S. Intentional untruths. You knew this would not stand up to scrutiny so you lied about what it was. Gruber's model could fool the CBO scoring so that is what you used. And when the scoring inexplicably came out in your favor, you hammered that point home. You got your say. Despite your feeble attempts to justify midterm losses as "failing to get our message to the people", the truth is your message was there loud and clear.

But a debate is between two sides. What about the other side? Do you remember what happened to them, Mr. President? What did happen was every opposition to your fascist ploy got soundly rejected by almost anyone with a pen, keyboard or microphone as nothing but the response you'd expect from racist, bigoted, sexist, elitist white people. And also, they are racist. More lies to cover the lies.** There was no debate of any merit because no merit was ever given to the other side.

*Well, I suppose it was transparent to those of us who didn't believe your BS. Unfortunately, our voices were drowned out by those in the market for snake oil.

**But those lies are okay, they're justified because they were necessary to get this bill passed. The bill which was, of course, justified by the lies that were told during the "debate". The bill justifies the lies. The lies justify the bill.


U.S. Government: Doing everything you used to do yourself for you since 2008.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." - Thomas Jefferson

"RE: “This is a big f—— deal.” — Vice President Joe Biden"
Posted by kingfish on 11-18-14 at 12:08 PM
I just hope he doesn't do the same thing with the Immigration problem. It will screw up any chance of passing effective measures beyond redemption as well as befouling any slight chance of bipartisanship going forward.

Because, while IMO I personally would agree that the actions he is proposing would be beneficial, and I also agree that the situation might be the kind of crisis that would legally justify executive action, cramming this decision down the throat of the public and opposition lawmakers at this time is going to doom it. Immigration reform is very important to our future, and we need a leader who can deal with it intelligently. Hopefully he will have learned a lesson from how Obamacare turned out, but again IMO, I’m afraid he hasn’t. He seems to be more interested in having a legacy than really helping to solve critical problems.

I believe that if he unilaterally enacts immigration policy change, he will increase the odds of a Republican victory in the next presidential election. Then those executive orders will be revoked by the new president who will undoubtedly campaign kill them while whipping up a fervor about dictatorial actions and thus kill any chance of a real, lasting, and effective immigration policy reform.

It is difficult and frustrating to get immigration reform thru the legislature, but it may be doable now that the Senate is less likely to kill it. He should give that process a chance, he still has two years before he steps down.

I also hope that the final solution isn’t that our southern border is turned into a DMZ, but if that is the price of a compromise that includes amnesty and an easing of restrictions for earning citizenship for immigrants, I would be for it.


"Disagree"
Posted by Estee on 11-18-14 at 01:00 PM
as well as befouling any slight chance of bipartisanship going forward.

There was no chance of bipartisanship going forward before this. There will be none after it, no matter what is done. And there will never be bipartisanship again. Someone who engages in cooperation and compromise is also known as 'a traitor'.

Read more about it at my new website, www.shootliberalsintheface.com

"RE: Disagree"
Posted by kingfish on 11-19-14 at 09:59 AM
Ok, you're feeling grumpy, and your pessimism is pretty universal. I feel it too.

But after the recent elections, some cracks in the great wall between Democrats and Republicans have appeared. We are seeing a few crossovers, both ways. Some Democrats are now supporting Keystone pipeline, and some Republicans are supporting a more liberal immigration policy. There are some Republicans who have softened their stance on Obamacare, and some Democrats who have admitted that changes to it are needed.

So, there is some hope, but if Obama tries to autocratically impose his will in regard to Immigration as he did with Obamacare, he will get the same reaction, and political freeze will be on again, IMO.