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Original Message
"I think I'm missing something."
Posted by Estee on 04-22-14 at 09:12 AM
If your position on not paying your grazing fees is that you don't recognize the federal government as existing, why are you riding around the property waving the flag of a country which -- again, according to you -- doesn't exist?

On the other hand, it's so nice to see the militias declaring that their intention is to put all the women up front so the non-existent government can shoot them first. Because women are expendable. And won't be armed themselves. And, you know, the U.S. shoots people over a matter of grazing fees every day.

Sean Hannity seems to love this. That may be all you need to know.

When Glenn Beck thinks the situation has jumped the sanity line, we're officially in trouble.

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by kingfish on 04-22-14 at 11:12 AM
What I find really alarming is that I actually agree with Harry Reid on this.

Have scheduled myself for a couple of hours of self-flagellation to atone.

"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by Estee on 04-22-14 at 11:40 AM
Which would then bring us very close to having Glenn Beck and Harry Reid agreeing with each other. Try to get your head around that, assuming you have any fragments left which are large enough.

I think this is mostly a case of people being so desperate to declare the government wrong and in need of rebelling against that they'll take any cause which comes along as their excuse for doing so. The rest is stupidity.

"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by newsomewayne on 04-22-14 at 11:49 AM
I've not paid very much attention to this story. But of your three statements on the events, I've not heard any mention of the first two. I have heard Hannity talk about this several times, so I'll give you the third one. If you would, I'd like you to post a link or two talking about the other two points. I'll look for some info, as well.

As for background about the grievance Bundy has with the government and the turtles, there is an article from 1993 that shows his claim about that to be plausible, if not true. From the Washington Post’s Tom Kenworthy documented in a March 21, 1993 article:

The <threatened species> designation immediately imperiled tens of millions of dollars worth of construction projects in this development-crazed city.

But it also triggered a novel experiment in the peaceful resolution of endangered species conflicts
---
Employing a rarely used mechanism approved by Congress a decade ago, environmentalists, developers, government officials, cattlemen, miners and off-road vehicle enthusiasts began negotiating a “habitat conservation plan.” ... a short-term conservation plan that allows for development of about 22,000 acres of tortoise habitat in and around Las Vegas in exchange for strict conservation measures on 400,000 acres of federal Bureau of Land Management (BLM) land south of the city.

---

Among the conservation measures required are the elimination of livestock grazing and strict limits on off-road vehicle use in the protected tortoise habitat. Two weeks ago, the managers of the plan completed the task of purchasing grazing privileges from cattle ranchers who formerly used BLM land....

Cattlemen are particularly irate, and have gone to court to prevent grazing restrictions on BLM land now outside the tortoise management area, where the federal agency has tried to keep cattle from competing with tortoises for forage for three months in the spring. Ranchers like Cliven Bundy, whose family homesteaded his ranch in 1877 and who accuses the government of a “land grab,” are digging in for a fight and say they will not willingly sell their grazing privileges to create another preserve.

So it sounds like 20+ years ago there were some big money shell gaming going on, and long established cattle ranchers got screwed. I don't know enough about this to say if the above background gives credible basis for Bundy's actions to put him in the right, but it does help establish a timeline.

"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by Estee on 04-22-14 at 11:55 AM
My, are you ever going to hate this.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/who-the-hell-is-on-this-guys-side-stewart-tears-into-hannity-for-bundy-hypocrisy/

"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by newsomewayne on 04-22-14 at 12:11 PM
No hate. I wanted to know where the claims came from. If this dude rancher is wrong, I don't care for that to be the story that gets told. I'll have to wait til I'm home to listen to it, though. I do admit that there is most likely a lot of hypocrisy here. But I am going to look for an opposing view on this before I do. Jon Stewart ain't exactly known for calling things straight down the middle.

"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by kingfish on 04-22-14 at 12:41 PM
As to Harry Reid calling Bundy's crowd American terrorists, people who threaten to kill federal agents who are performing their legally appointed jobs with loaded weapons from behind barriers, well that fits my idea of a terroristic action.

Kudos to the feds for backing off and not turning this into a deadly confrontation, like Waco and others. We like to think they may have learned something.

Harry Reid is a loudmouth jerk who shoots off his mouth quite often with overly provocative statements. And he did this time too. But at least they were accurate this time. First time for everything, I guess.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/18/harry-reid-blasts-bundy-ranch-supporters-domestic-/?page=all


"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by dabo on 04-22-14 at 07:42 PM
Well, to be fair, Sean doesn't have far to go to be in the same asylum as Glen.
"Speaking of..."
Posted by newsomewayne on 04-22-14 at 12:34 PM
Here's some pseudo-hypocrisy.

An AP article written about the standoff quoted an environmentalist group that I would bet dollars to doughnuts, just name the quantity, support Obama 95% of the time: "The BLM is setting a dangerous precedent in announcing that it will pick and choose who has to follow federal laws and who it will reward for violating them,"

Add a little changing the antagonist and the subject...

"The BLM Obama is setting a dangerous precedent in announcing that it will pick and choose who has to follow federal laws the ACA and who it will reward for violating them," ...and from the Administration's Press... crickets.


U.S. Government: Doing everything you used to do yourself for you since 2008.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." - Thomas Jefferson

"RE: Speaking of..."
Posted by foonermints on 04-22-14 at 08:47 PM
Don't speak! Just shut up and back to the grindstone for you!


We're turning the BLM land into a new Co-operative Farm. Just for people that talk back.
I signed and Executive Order!

"Court timeline."
Posted by Estee on 04-24-14 at 05:29 PM
Wikipedia seems to have a pretty detailed history of the lawsuits and statutes involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy

"Um... no."
Posted by Estee on 04-23-14 at 08:28 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-24-14 AT 01:47 PM (EST)

Hannity's latest response has been to call Jon Stewart the "chief apologist" for the President's administration, which just might be his one-statement-damns-all move for anyone who doesn't agree with him in every way. It also marks Hannity as someone who either doesn't watch The Daily Show or happily ignores whatever he doesn't like.

Actually, that just marks him as a Faux News personality.

He also feels Stewart is obsessed with him. Don't flatter yourself, Sean. Jon Stewart would go after anyone on your level of self-delusional stupid.

"Evisceration: outside and self."
Posted by Estee on 04-24-14 at 09:34 AM
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart-fires-back-at-hannitys-word-turds-my-god-youre-the-arbys-of-news/

Not that Hannity will notice, given that he has no guts.

Oh, and meanwhile, Cliven Bundy would like to use his moment in the spotlight to make his opinions on certain other issues of government known. For starters, there's the 13th Amendment. He seems to think it's a bad thing.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/nevada-rancher-cliven-bundy-goes-off-on-the-negro/

Which triggers the usual fun question: who backs away, who excuses it, and who stands by him all the more?

"RE: Evisceration: outside and self."
Posted by snidget on 04-24-14 at 12:44 PM
When will they learn, there is always another layer of crazy underneath.


Tribe's Capital Retrieval and Dawn Watching Land Cruise

"Speaking of the layer of crazy underneath"
Posted by snidget on 04-24-14 at 12:53 PM
this just came across my news feed.

http://myfox8.com/2014/04/24/former-nc-klan-leader-charged-in-deadly-shooting-caught-with-black-prostitute/


Tribe's Capital Retrieval and Signature Service.

"Scatter, cockroaches, scatter!"
Posted by Estee on 04-24-14 at 05:14 PM
Sure enough, a number of his louder supporters are distancing themselves at speed, although others are pointing out that the racist nature of the man doesn't change the basic issue, whatever that is. Some are just blaming the Times

For his part, the rancher in question apparently said he was misquoted, then misunderstood, then taken out of context, then blamed the Times, then went on with Alex Jones to explain himself and made things worse.

I haven't looked, but I suspect the militia presence hasn't changed much. Possibly more open applause, but that's probably about it.

"RE: Evisceration: outside and self."
Posted by dabo on 04-24-14 at 01:47 PM
How does one go about setting up one of those internet petitions? Jon Stewart must be called out, he owes Arby's an apology.
"RE: Evisceration: outside and self."
Posted by Estee on 04-24-14 at 01:48 PM
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ComicallyMissingThePoint
"RE: Evisceration: outside and self."
Posted by dabo on 04-24-14 at 02:12 PM
Is it the horsey sauce, because it isn't made from real horses?
"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by dabo on 04-24-14 at 01:35 PM
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/tom-tomorrow#axzz2XRmD8JMN


"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by newsomewayne on 04-25-14 at 09:29 AM
I think this has become an interesting example of Good Cause / Asshat Spokesman.

Without digging into the history and the changes in laws and regulations, I wouldn't be surprised to find out if ranchers and businesspersons got screwed over for a stupid turtle.

That being said, this guy seems to be a world-class moron. And I think everyone is starting to figure that out now.

"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by Estee on 04-25-14 at 10:09 AM
For the relevant laws, see the Wikipedia link above. For his arguments against it, see the local asylum: he rapidly took any possible legal angle into places where sane legal representation sighs and collects the fee in advance.

'Everyone' is not an inclusive statement. Several of those who stood by him to begin with continue to do so, and he has both apologists in the media and those who swear the libruls are the true racists here. Because in the 1860s...

...seriously, that's an argument I keep seeing in Comments sections. If you're a liberal, a century and a half is held against you. Conservative, last week is only brought up by liberals so anyone who does so is the enemy and...

...well, you know. Comments sections. But the point is that he has defenders and apologists and accusers towards the left. Joe Walsh is prominent on all three lists.

You might enjoy watching Bundy dance under interviews which are no longer soft-tosses.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/watch-live-cliven-bundy-holds-press-conference/
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-bill-weir-to-bundy-how-does-it-feel-to-be-abandoned-by-your-friends-on-fox/

And yes, they pointed out that he's effectively living off the government. He didn't take it well.

Faux News is, I feel, skittish. Racist By Association is too easy a link to open themselves up to, especially when the dog whistles are already halfway out on the news desk at all times.

"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by snidget on 04-25-14 at 10:17 AM
I do know it is hard to balance the maybe there are at least a few spots of wilderness we should protect with human interests.

If you say no species, no bit of wilderness, nothing that is unique or special should ever be protected and every inch of the earth should be completely and totally exploited no matter what dies...well I dunno if that is good for any of us in the long run. Humans, generally, don't have a history of good long term planning if there is anything that looks like short term gain to be had.

But if you go to protect any spot you are going to put someone out. That is why generally people in the business of managing the federal lands that belong to all of us, not just one rancher, feel that the best outcome is everyone with any interest in that section of land is equally upset. That seems to balance things out about as well as anything can.

A lot of the problems out West is the delicate nature of the balance even if we weren't there doing things that damage it. Is it OK for some rancher to just stick too many cows in your backyard until it is barren and unable to support life and then move on to your neighbor's yard (and some are just a peeved they can only have X cows rather than 100X cows per acre, even if that means in the long run there won't be any food for their cows within the distance you can walk the cows...most do understand they gotta have food next year, some don't, and the ones that don't could destroy it for all the ranchers in the area). Is it really different when we collectively own the backyard vs individually own it? If it was a fellow rancher with the deed to the land would anyone say he is a hero for putting his cows there and never paying the fees?

I know it is a big issue out West that most of the land is federal rather than they sold it off a bit at a time to a bunch of corporations or individuals. But then again the feds are one group that actually has enough clout to say you can't destroy it any way you want when they own it vs trying to get a bunch of different people to all agree not to use it to death.

"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by Estee on 04-25-14 at 10:31 AM
If it was a fellow rancher with the deed to the land would anyone say he is a hero for putting his cows there and never paying the fees?

See 'Poaching'. I don't think it would go over well.

"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by dabo on 04-25-14 at 10:28 AM
Personally, I like the idea of purposing idle government land to be something useful. All those old folks and kids out on the porches with nothing to do, they ought to pick out a nearby park and take over part of it for a garden. Plant corn or tomatoes or green beens or watermelon, whatever might happen to make a good harvest wherever they are. And put up a barn, it doesn't have to be a real big barn but just good enough to house tools and such near the garden. And provide a home for some barn owls, on account of they are in danger of running out of barns and how can they be barn owls if they run out of barns? And some owls at the garden are good for keeping the rabbit population under control.
"If MLK would just get off his duff and get his job done"
Posted by snidget on 04-25-14 at 11:10 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/24/politics/cliven-bundy-interview/

Then I guess any fool could say any durn thing they wanted and no one would be offended?


Tribe's Capital Retrieval and Bird Cage Emporium

"RE: If MLK would just get off his duff and get his job done"
Posted by dabo on 04-25-14 at 06:48 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-25-14 AT 07:08 PM (EST)

In a press conference later Friday, Bundy added that while he is "tired" personally he is "not tired of talking about race."

"It's time the United States had a discussion about race," he said. "... I think all races should be talking about this, having their opinions and defending their liberties."

Well, it just goes to prove that even a broken watch can be right once a week.

I'm starting to feel a bit bad for this guy, it's obvious he can't express himself coherently in the form of a comprehensible statment.

http://us.cnn.com/2014/04/25/opinion/granderson-bundy/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

Bundy is not the face of racism.

"Would he like Clippers season tickets?"
Posted by Estee on 04-26-14 at 04:56 PM
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/10843525/nba-investigating-offensive-audio-recording-allegedly-los-angeles-clippers-owner-donald-sterling

Not even remotely surprised. Sterling's had enough smoke surrounding him to indicate a five-alarm fire at the core. Check out his discrimination suits sometime.

"I'm missing something here"
Posted by dabo on 04-27-14 at 11:57 AM
I mean, rich ugly sugar daddy has black/Mexican girlfriend, he's fine with the whole world knowing that. But she likes to get some on the side, nothing wrong with that, he's okay with that. And she too likes chocolate. He just wants her to keep it on the down-low.

That's the dream!

Where's Sean in all this?

"RE: I'm missing something here"
Posted by Estee on 04-27-14 at 01:08 PM
Let's call it The Thomas Jefferson Question: you can have my bedroom, but not my vote.

It is one of the things making people wonder if the recording was faked. Apparently he's been accusing her of theft and she's sworn revenge, of which this could easily be a part. The NBA is supposedly checking the voice signature. But again... it's Sterling, and that makes it very easy to believe.

Scoop Jackson went on a long this-is-the-surface rant on ESPN today, in which pretty much everything he wanted to be racist was racist. Like the skin colors on display at the Winter Olympics. Only a few Afrimerican athletes, so... racist. Apparently Scoop has never taken a serious look at the demographics in the typical areas which WO participants emerge from or considered what happens to kids from other areas who say "Forget the rebound contest: I'm going skiing." It's also a little like saying basketball is racist because so few Caucasians play it at the professional level.

He has some legitimate points -- but he's also in a major hurry to drown himself out.

Sean?

"I'm still missing something here"
Posted by dabo on 04-27-14 at 03:02 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10845649/jackson-sterling-remarks-illustrate-race-relations-need-work

And yet not a word about honkey trash snowboarders invading the Winter Olympics with their grunge honkey Jacash subculture "judged" events.

Still don't get it about Sugar Daddy, she is a mighty fine trophy woman, perfectly understandable he wants her seen with him and no one else. I mean, yeah, maybe a stupid guy thing, but if you had a trophy like that you wouldn't want people thinking you share it around.

"Caption this"
Posted by cahaya on 04-29-14 at 08:41 AM

"Koo Laia V. Cha too ma leia kahnkee, ya ee eema loh kah yah lee."

(Jabba speak: "You will soon learn to appreciate me.")

"RE: Caption this"
Posted by dabo on 04-29-14 at 07:52 PM

Ahsante sana Squash banana Wewe nugu Mimi hapana



Say hello to my little <blank>

"Extended cut."
Posted by Estee on 04-28-14 at 07:07 AM
In this one, the male speaker spends some time talking about the difference between white Jews and black Jews before launching into the next logical follow-up: the Shoah.

If it's a designed attempt to provoke, he's running low on buttons.

"RE: Extended cut."
Posted by dabo on 04-28-14 at 12:03 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-28-14 AT 12:55 PM (EST)

http://deadspin.com/exclusive-the-extended-donald-sterling-tape-1568291249

You are forcing me to actually listen to the thing. I'll get around to it.

But it is true, the Ethiopian Jews had to change their ways before they could become Israelis. I still think it was a shame.

"RE: Extended cut."
Posted by dabo on 04-28-14 at 04:11 PM
http://www.thenation.com/blog/179559/donald-sterlings-impolite-racism

Someone finally zeroed in on part of the real here.

"RE: Extended cut."
Posted by Estee on 04-28-14 at 04:42 PM
Make that two.

http://www.nj.com/ledger-dalessandro/index.ssf/2014/04/dalessandro_donald_sterlings_candid_moment_its_business_as_usual_and_nba_business_is_often_ugly.html

"It's Obama's fault. (Of course.)"
Posted by Estee on 04-28-14 at 05:50 PM
According to Rush Limbaugh, the only reason Sterling is in trouble: he didn't donate enough to the President's campaigns. Limbaugh went on to say that Sterling is a Hollywood Democrat and all the shock and outrage are phony.

It then came out that Sterling is a registered Republican and has been for at least the past sixteen years.

Next up from Rush: how the President personally doctored those records.

"RE: It's Obama's fault. (Of course.)"
Posted by cahaya on 04-29-14 at 08:19 AM
I'm just curious how TMZ obtained the audio.

Oh, wait, you say Sterling's Republican? Maybe Obama ordered the NSA to snoop and scoop in the interests of national security to prevent Civil War II.

"RE: It's Obama's the girlfriend's fault. (Of course.)"
Posted by kidflash212 on 04-29-14 at 08:53 AM
At least according to that tower of intellect, Donald Trump. According to him - “He got set up by a very, very bad girlfriend, let’s face it,”

"Blame the vic.. uh.. well.."
Posted by dabo on 04-29-14 at 10:39 AM
Gee, "the Donald," let's have more of the 1%ers openly step into the cesspool of this slave trade systemic conspiracy. Another one trying to distract from the real that should be spotlighted here (see links in posts 33 and 34). Got you now, dumdum!

Honestly, there are two things here that are real, that is one and the racism (and other #isms are there) is undeniable. All those occupants of the rarified lofty realm exercising their superiority over all of us ungrateful lowlies.

The other thing is, actually, the relationship between this octogenerian 1%er and his 20-something golddigger armcandy, so tagging that part of it is to the Donald's credit. The rest of what he says is typical distraction, wool over the eyes.

What Sterling (allegedly) is talking about on the tape (though failing to articulate) is a relational reality: What you do reflects on me. And somehow what she did was perceived as a bad reflection on him in his "culture" because she is one of his slaves and is misbehaving. But she doesn't hear what he doesn't articulate and focusses on the race issue which is all she does hear. This is threatening to her because all she does is have pictures taken of herself with famous people she happens to meet, and for her publically they are badges to be worn. (And probably good for her line-of-my-stuff V. Stiviano business.) And she has a history of dealing with racism in her own way, she had her name legally changed because she thought she was being stigmatized because of her race, which perhaps is true, and that becomes her fallback because of the thing she doesn't get.

But really, "the Donald," it wasn't scripted. You can't write this stuff.

"RE: Blame the vic.. uh.. well.."
Posted by snidget on 04-29-14 at 02:49 PM
Jon Stewart compared and contrasted the you can sleep with them as long as you don't let yourself be seen with them bigots with the you can be seen with them as long as you do not ever sleep with them bigots.
"Adam Silver press conference 2 p.m. EDT."
Posted by Estee on 04-29-14 at 10:06 AM
Well, they can't take away the team. Suspending Sterling is an option, but it won't mean much. Forcing him to sell just makes him money. Expect very little to happen, period.

Right now, the fun question for me is just how many sponsors the Clippers are going to have left after this. The more who leave, the more pressure is on those who remain.

But there's always Chick-Fil-A!

"Silver's options."
Posted by Estee on 04-29-14 at 12:44 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-29-14 AT 12:45 PM (EST)

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10852199/challenge-donald-sterling

In summary:

1. The maximum fine would be massive to the 99%, but not Sterling.
2. A lifetime suspension is on the table and would sting a bit more: however, he could probably keep running the team through puppets. Forfeiting draft picks always hurts, but what does he care if he decides to get rid of the team at a massive profit? And removing picks ultimately just punishes the fans.
3. Sterling can be forced out of the league, but the other owners have to vote on it -- and you'd need 23 out of 30 ballots to get rid of him. Given some of the beliefs and practices for the others, good luck.
4. Silver can force him to testify, or at least give him the chance to lie under oath.
5. Pretty much any lawsuit against the league is doomed to fail, but California.

"Commissioner announces:"
Posted by Estee on 04-29-14 at 02:26 PM
1. Lifetime ban. Cannot interact with NBA in any way.
2. Maximum fine of 2.5m, to be donated to a tolerance agency of league and player mutual choice.
3. Calling for vote of owners to expel Sterling and force sale, asap.
4. Sterling has admitted this was him on the recording.

Let's see who comes to Sterling's defense now.

"RE: Commissioner announces:"
Posted by snidget on 04-29-14 at 03:00 PM
You sure that isn't from the same satire site that said Sterling was remorseful and fully understood the error of his ways once he realized that Donald Trump defended him?


How sad is it that I'm astounded that they threw the book at someone for being a bigot. I never thought I'd see more than a slap on the wrist and them somehow ending up with more money and power than ever.

*dark* what the heck kind of backlash is this going to generate. You know anything that looks like a step forward means they are going to drag us 6 steps backward one way or another.

"RE: Commissioner announces:"
Posted by Estee on 04-29-14 at 03:12 PM
I've already heard one radio caller start the conspiracy theory that it was all a plot to get Magic Johnson as owner of the team.

I don't have a lot of confidence in the owners' vote unless every ballot is made public. Several of them have nasty positions of their own and would fear the league coming after them with the confidence of 'second time on up is easier'. But if the votes are publicized and the ones who voted to keep him face the same public backlash and loss of ad revenue... then they'll fake it and shovel money under the table to their favorite causes as personal penance.

Keep in mind that if Sterling does sell (and if the vote fails, he might just keep the team forever as a Screw You, I'm Rich move), he will make a tremendous profit. No getting around that and we shouldn't try: there's a door you don't want to open. Try not to think about where he might donate some of that money.

I will be checking various sources later to see who comes out on Sterling's side. (Hannity? Hannity...?)

"RE: Commissioner announces:"
Posted by cahaya on 04-29-14 at 03:16 PM
...somehow ending up with more money and power than ever.

Well, Sterling will turn a hefty profit from selling the team, to the tune of about half a billion dollars, give or take a hundred mill here or there. So, the fine is a pittance, and the public disgrace will run its course while he ventures into yet another business that discriminates against minorities (he doesn't like them living in his empire of rental properties to begin with).

Maybe he'll end up buying a Euro soccer franchise whose fans share his opinions.

"RE: Commissioner announces:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-29-14 at 03:14 PM
The Clippers themselves have come out and said this: "We wholeheartedly support and embrace the decision by ... Adam Silver today. Now the healing process begins.”

Their website at the moment: We Are One


"The United Morons of America"
Posted by cahaya on 04-29-14 at 03:33 PM
Let's see who comes to Sterling's defense now.

Mark Cuban of the Dallas Mavs questions kicking Sterling out of the league.

"In this country, people are allowed to be morons," Cuban said. "They're allowed to be stupid. They're allowed to think idiotic thoughts.

"Within an organization like the NBA, we try to do what's in the best interest of the league, and that's why we have a commissioner and a constitution, and I think Adam will be smart and deal with Donald with the full extent available. But, again, if you're saying a blanket, 'Let's kick him out' -- I don't want to go that far because it's not about Donald, it's not about his position, it's about his mess -- and what are we going to make a decision on?

Cuban added that it was "damn scary" to ponder the thought of attempting to remove somebody from the NBA because of his personal beliefs.

"In no uncertain terms am I supporting what Donald Sterling said, or his position," Cuban said. "He's obviously racist, he's obviously bigoted. And in this day and age when you're in the public eye, you've got to be damn careful -- if that's your position, and that's unfortunately where you're at, you better be damn careful what you say, even in the privacy of your own home.

"But regardless of your background, regardless of the history they have, if we're taking something somebody said in their home and we're trying to turn it into something that leads to you being forced to divest property in any way, shape or form, that's not the United States of America. I don't want to be part of that."

Moron?

"RE: The United Morons of America"
Posted by Estee on 04-29-14 at 03:53 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-29-14 AT 04:05 PM (EST)

Moron?

Frightened. And in the most extreme potential cases of Thought Police, not without cause.

However, we've left the realm of 'thought' behind. And the fact is that the NBA does not operate under what others would see as American labor law. It operates under its own set of guidelines, and every owner has to agree to those rules when they enter the league. Silver has gone as far as he can go and under the laws Cuban signed off on, he had every right to take all of those actions.

Cuban can fear repercussions for America if he likes. But contractually, the NBA is not the United States.

But he still gets a vote. In fact, that vote will be coming up shortly. And he can vote to keep Sterling.

Which then turns into 'the freedom to take the consequences'. Because if his own team sponsors decide he was voting for different reasons...

ETA: Just saw that Cuban has tweeted his approval of the Commissioner's actions. Doesn't mean much.

Re-ETA: Limbaugh is now claiming he was just joking yesterday. And then he went after CNN's Don Lemon for his sexuality. Which will be tomorrow's joke.

And so it continues.

"Count on FOX."
Posted by Estee on 04-29-14 at 04:10 PM
Their reporter was quick to ask if it was right to punish someone for remarks made in private.

Silver's response was that the words were now public. Next question.

Looking at comments sections, the Magic Conspiracy is spreading.

"The court battle to come."
Posted by Estee on 04-30-14 at 06:35 AM
Also known as 'I have 1.9 billion dollars. I can bribe a jury. Plus it's California and I may not have to.'

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140429/donald-sterling-nba-adam-silver-clippers-lawsuit-lifetime-ban/

Sounds like we could be facing a decade or so of pure ugly -- if the other owners don't chicken out right here.

"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by Estee on 04-30-14 at 11:03 AM
Various news agencies are now reporting that if the players had not found Sterling's punishment acceptable, all three of last night's playoff games would have seen walkouts.

I'd say the GOP might want to try that in Congress, but we'd never notice the difference.

"The Moral Poop"
Posted by dabo on 04-30-14 at 03:23 PM
http://us.cnn.com/2014/04/30/opinion/randazza-sterling-privacy/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

What happened to Sterling was morally wrong
By Marc J. Randazza ...

I reluctantly stand on Sterling's side today. What happened to him may have been illegal and was morally wrong. .. In California, you can't record a conversation without the knowledge or consent of both parties. so pooping what? .. it went viral. This is where I think things went morally wrong. but not 1st amendment wrong, of course .. Think about what his public character execution means. It means that we now live in a world where if you have any views that are unpopular, you now not only need to fear saying them in public, but you need to fear saying them at all -- oh myyyyyyyyyyy!!! and pooploney.

"Oprah Winfrey wants to own the Clippers."
Posted by Estee on 05-01-14 at 08:06 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-01-14 AT 08:07 AM (EST)

Wow.

So apparently there is some remaining amount of downhill left.

"Maybe she can split them"
Posted by foonermints on 05-01-14 at 08:18 AM
With Whoopi.


Handcrafted by RollDdice
The horror.. the horror..

"RE: Maybe she can split them"
Posted by dabo on 05-01-14 at 11:57 AM
I bet they really want the Magic armcandy.
"The Cry"
Posted by dabo on 05-01-14 at 04:41 PM
for better racists. I kid you not.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/05/This-Town-Needs-A-Better-Class-Of-Racist/361443/

Warning, N-word included!

The roster of conservative theorists who imply that black people were better off being whipped, worked, and raped are legion. Their ranks include economists Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell, former congressman Allen West, sitting Representative Trent Franks, singer Ted Nugent, and presidential aspirants Rick Santorum and Michele Bachmann.

With so little substantive difference between Bundy and other conservatives, it becomes tough to understand last week's backpedaling in any intellectually coherent way. The problem with Cliven Bundy isn't that he is a racist but that he is an oafish racist. Elegant racism is invisible, supple, and enduring. Liberals have yet to come up with a credible retort.

"She's his "silly rabbit"."
Posted by Estee on 05-03-14 at 07:10 AM
She said this to Barbara Walters.

She also doesn't feel he's racist: just from the wrong generation.

She says his actions prove him to be a kind and generous man.

Who is 'she'?

V. Stiviano, the woman who made these recordings in the first place.

Credibility death.

"But it's Texas, so that probably won't work."
Posted by Estee on 05-07-14 at 01:50 PM
"Close enough?"
Posted by Estee on 08-07-14 at 04:09 PM
http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/05/whoa-jerry-jones-shown-with-young-women-in-scandalous-leaked-pics/
"Cliven Bundy teaches American history"
Posted by Estee on 05-08-14 at 03:32 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/online/cliven-bundy-wants-to-teach-you-american-history-on-youtube/

Looks like the Texas textbook board has a new go-to guy!

"RE: I think I'm missing something."
Posted by Estee on 05-09-14 at 10:40 AM
A couple of days ago, one Faux News show decided to try a Man On The Street segment, which would be used to prove that anyone of sense whom you just happened to randomly encounter outside would agree with everything Faux said. So they went out and interviewed two random people. And in fact, everything said was agreed with.

The pity of it might have been the other person in the studio openly on-the-air recognizing those two perfectly random people as fellow Faux employees.

Why bring this up? Because Donald Sterling just had another audio recording leak out. And in it, he gets to talk about what a racist he isn't. Listen to all that fresh proof! Can't you hear how heartbroken he is, which surely proves the first recording was false? Doesn't this just tell you he's the victim here in every possible way?

Make Your Own Story. It's the trend!

"Cooper Alert"
Posted by dabo on 05-12-14 at 11:54 AM
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/donald-sterling-to-anderson-cooper-im-not-a-racist/

airing tomorrow night

Sterling said that he was “just so emotionally distraught, and the reason it’s hard for me, very hard for me is that I’m wrong. I caused the problem. I don’t know how to correct it.” ... and Stiviano “baited” him (“I thought she liked me and really cared for me”)

Feh, so what if she did: you treat golddigger armcandy like property, you treat your jocks like property -- I applaud her for exposing the whole rotten batch of you.

"Great excuses of our time."
Posted by Estee on 05-12-14 at 04:41 PM
'Yes, I said it, but I only did so as an experiment! On behalf of a friend who may or may not exist! And here's the reason why you'll probably never see him in public! Ever!"

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10921650/marshall-henderson-says-derogatory-tweet-michael-sam-was-psychology-experiment

Bundy and Sterling would like to hire him as their new PR director.

"RE: Great excuses of our time."
Posted by snidget on 05-12-14 at 05:02 PM
So I'm getting a lets uphold the bravery of the man to come out as gay, just so long as he behaves as if he will never leave the closet vibe about the whole thing.
"RE: Great excuses of our time."
Posted by Estee on 05-13-14 at 06:57 AM
Unless you're Eric Bolling, who believes Michael Sam wouldn't have been drafted if he wasn't gay. Or Stephen A. Smith, who believes everything is racist, happily supporting everyone's right to be offended by the I Just Maybe Got A Job kiss. Or...

One major difference between Mr. Sam and Mr. Robinson: the death threats will arrive much faster. And be that much harder to trace.

"Donald Sterling's interview."
Posted by Estee on 05-13-14 at 08:05 AM
So basically, he's insane.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/sterling-faces-confrontational-anderson-cooper-trashes-magic-johnson/

That's nice.

"boink"
Posted by jbug on 05-13-14 at 04:29 PM


"RE: boink"
Posted by ARnutz on 05-13-14 at 09:39 PM
Thanks!


I *lurk* in lurkerdom waiting to SWOOP!

"RE: boink"
Posted by jbug on 05-14-14 at 03:09 PM
you are most welcome


"If politics doesn't work out, he can always buy the Clippers."
Posted by Estee on 05-15-14 at 02:30 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/online/gop-candidate-derails-debate-with-comments-on-jews-polish-blacks-gays-and-more/

"RE: If politics doesn't work out, he can always buy the Clippers."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 05-15-14 at 04:46 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-15-14 AT 04:50 PM (EST)

So THAT is where Rob Ford has been... he's reportedly been in rehab for the past two weeks but nobody can verify for sure exactly where he is.

Slap on a goatee/beard along with some biker duds and he could easily pass for Harley Brown in the video on your link.

(And the scary thing? Harley Brown seems almost normal these days for politicians - if guys like Rob Ford, Jesse Ventura and so on could all get elected and Marion Barry gets re-elected, then what's going to stop Harley Brown from getting elected?)

"Sterling reportedly refuses to pay fine: will sue NBA."
Posted by Estee on 05-16-14 at 07:44 AM
So at this point, I'm wondering if the commissioner has the power to simply dissolve the franchise and award a team to Seattle.
"RE: Sterling reportedly refuses to pay fine: will sue NBA."
Posted by kingfish on 05-16-14 at 09:24 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-14 AT 09:28 AM (EST)


"The SI report, backed up by USA TODAY Sports and ESPN.com, indicates that Blecher (ed. Sterling's attorney) — a decorated veteran antitrust lawyer who was part of a team that defeated the NFL in a 1981 case that allowed the Oakland Raiders to move to Los Angeles — plans to argue that Sterling has not violated any aspect of the NBA's constitution. Multiple legal experts disagree, pointing toward Article 13(d) of the constitution, which provides for the termination of an owner's franchise should ownership fail to "fulfill its contractual obligations to the Association, its Members, Players, or any other third party in such a way as to affect the Association or its Members adversely." Which interpretation bears out in a court of law remains to be seen."

I am not an expert, but this seem like a stretch. That kind of umbrella statement of subjective transgressions that could probably be used to kick any of the owners out any time they say or do anything unpopular or un-PC. What he doesn't attend church every Sunday? Kick him out! What, he voted Republican? Kick him out! What? He once listened to Rush Limbaugh? Let's take his franchise for that!

I'm going to guess that in a court of law, (especially when put up against the first amendment, which I feel sure will be part of Sterling's argument) , that the requirements for booting an owner will have to be much more definitive to withstand a legal challenge.

As to a walkout by the players, I suspect that when it comes down to receiving the millions and tens of millions or not getting them, that they will play regardless of how the Sterling case is decided.

"RE: Sterling reportedly refuses to pay fine: will sue NBA."
Posted by Estee on 05-16-14 at 09:50 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-14 AT 09:57 AM (EST)

We don't need all the players to walk out -- just those on the Clippers. There's already been talk of giving them instant free agency and letting them walk out on their contracts. Amend the salary cap a bit to allow the other to pick them all up with no player jobs lost and all Sterling can hope for is free agents and signing cast-offs.

And this isn't a matter of the U.S. Constitution or any of the country's laws. This is the NBA's doctrine. If you want to own a team, you agree that you will follow the NBA's laws as written. They decide what those laws are, along with the penalties for breaking them. Sterling can't argue California statutes because they don't apply.

Either you are an owner following these rules -- in which case, you broke them -- or you're not -- in which case, you're out. The fairness of said rules is not open to debate because you already signed into them in order to have your team.

Legally, he's 93% out the door. He's just determined to go kicking and screaming, all the way to SCOTUS if possible. And then he'll go full-on Bundy and declare the United States doesn't exist. Except for the parts which allow him to make money.

He's said 'Come and get me'. Hopefully they will. But it could take years. Years he doesn't have.

But don't worry. I'm sure his heirs will keep right on suing in his memory.

"RE: Sterling reportedly refuses to pay fine: will sue NBA."
Posted by kingfish on 05-16-14 at 10:46 AM
A lot of people would lose if the Clippers were to strike. Top players could relocate and there would probably be a fund to tide all the players over, but there are a lot support personnel and the city itself that would lose.

If/when it hits the SCOTUS, US constitutionality of a contract may well enter into this, if not before.

But that aside, I detest the fact that Sterling may be in a defensible position, I wish he were not and that his penalty would stick. I also wish Jerry Jones could be booted. And I have a lingering resentment of Bud Adams for his taking the Oilers to Tennessee. I think that was detrimental to the sport. He’s dead, so I guess I’ll have to let that pass. Al Davis? He made a lot of public statements and other moves that could have been considered by players, league officials, and other owners as detrimental to the sport. Heck, he sued the NFL. If the NFL has a similar clause, that would surely qualify as detrimantal to the sport.

But my opinion, or yours, or LeBron James', or Magic Johnson's, or anyone's opinion should not be sufficient to hang anyone with a vague rule like I perceive Article 13(d) to be. Read it. How broad can a rule be and still be legally enforceable?

“…provides for the termination of an owner's franchise should ownership fail to "fulfill its contractual obligations to the Association, its Members, Players, or any other third party in such a way as to affect the Association or its Members adversely."

Is being culturally sensitive a “contractual obligation”? Is being Politically Correct while in a private conversation and in one’s private life “contractual obligation”? Which specific “contractual obligation” didn't he fulfill?

I’m pretty sure that that clause was meant to enforce NBA related matters regarding official statements and actions, not every private conversation with every resentful mistress.

Another point, he bought the team in 1981. What was the contract that he signed then?

I do hope that Don Sterling can be forced to sell his team, and that an ownership facade of his wife can be prevented too. But unfortunately I think that that is no where near 90+% probablility. I actually fear that there is very little chance of either or both happening.

"RE: Sterling reportedly refuses to pay fine: will sue NBA."
Posted by Estee on 05-16-14 at 11:12 AM
It's not that he has those odds of going: it's that getting those 7% fingers off the door frame is a nightmare.

As for that clause... it's like sin: it's what the religion says it is and actual reality does not matter. Remember, the NBA fines people for criticizing officials: no-penalty free speech was already gone.

Making players consider a boycott seems to affect the Association adversely.

And yes, the city itself would lose. It almost always does when a team moves.

But LA would still have a team and Seattle got screwed, so @$%^ it.

"Clippers sale pending: two billion dollars."
Posted by Estee on 05-31-14 at 07:49 AM
Of course, due to those evil taxes which may never be paid because America, the Sterlings only see about 1.3 billion of that. Such a shame. Don't worry: I'm sure they have their very own offshore shelter or loophole waiting to protect them from the evil. Or if they don't, just stall and wait for the next election.

The buyer is a former Microsoft CEO: Steve Ballmer. So basically, the team just traded the resident form of evil.

Next up: establish a monopoly by eradicating playground basketball. Launch the infringement lawsuits.

"When you are too radical for people willing to kill government peeps"
Posted by snidget on 06-10-14 at 10:46 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rampaging-couple-booted-bundy-ranch-radical/story?id=24067414

Should you be surprised that they go off and kill government/cop peeps?

And who do you report them to when you don't trust the government, either?

Hmmmm

"I think we missed it"
Posted by cahaya on 06-10-14 at 01:27 PM
Anybody here see the noise
see the fear and commotion?
I think we missed it
Anybody here see the love
see the hate, the emotion?


Pepe's summer 2013 sig blast

Guess who these lyrics came from.

"The Jerry Springer Show with gavels."
Posted by Estee on 07-10-14 at 07:41 AM
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/11196755/donald-sterling-lashes-wife-says-sell-los-angeles-clippers

But when he's not ranting, he's lecturing the judge and opposing counsel on proper questioning procedures.

I'm not convinced he's going to win. But there's a good chance that no matter what happens, he'll appeal. I'm not sure any victory he gained would be complete enough to justify a stop.

"Sterling sues everyone and everything for all the money in the world."
Posted by Estee on 07-23-14 at 12:19 PM
...wait: that's next week. Here's the current State Of His Litigious Self.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/11249995/donald-sterling-sues-nba-wife-shelly-sterling-adam-silver-lac-basketball-club-damages

"Cliven Bundy speaks for God."
Posted by Estee on 08-07-14 at 02:40 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/online/cliven-bundy-god-told-me-to-disarm-fedederal-government/

Cliven Bundy is on the verge of a new career. A new, short-term, extremely bloody career.

"RE: Cliven Bundy speaks for God."
Posted by kingfish on 08-07-14 at 03:47 PM
Cliven Bundy is a cool name.

I agree, sooner or later the Feds are going to have to enforce the law. I hope they have a good plan.

"RE: Cliven Bundy speaks for God."
Posted by Estee on 08-07-14 at 04:13 PM
The problem is that... well, let's express this as a formula: As the Extremism Of Your Views Increases, So Does The Chance That Any Remaining Supporters Are Willing To Die For Them.

In other words, he's getting down to the real fanatics and crazies on his side, because most of those with a shred of common sense have bailed. (This does not include Hannity, who left for Other Causes.) So any attempt to enforce the law, even the most peaceful one, has increasing odds of running into full-scale gunfire.

If we had a knockout gas capable of taking out an entire ranch, I'd roach-fog the place from the air, carry out the arrested, and shrug a lot. But...

"RE: Cliven Bundy speaks for God."
Posted by kingfish on 08-07-14 at 06:13 PM
LAST EDITED ON 08-08-14 AT 10:26 AM (EST)

I'm not that opposed to waiting for a windy day and doing a Waco.

OK, I guess I'm kinda sorta opposed, there may be innocent hostages involved. But if someone were to drop cigarette butt, and there just happened to be evacuation helicopters over the horizon...

"Younger and Younger"
Posted by dabo on 08-08-14 at 09:44 AM
http://news.msn.com/us/toddler-slides-through-white-house-gate-alarming-secret-service

We were going to wait until he learned to talk to question him ...

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/hannity-colbert-apparently-child

"RE: Younger and Younger"
Posted by kingfish on 08-08-14 at 10:31 AM
Funny as Colbert was, I thought Hannity had a pretty good response. However, it's never smart to cross quip-swords with a comedian of Colbert's caliber who has a staff of 30 writers.

He might just take Hannity up on his offer and turn it into something very entertaining.

And, of course, Hannity should just lighten up. If that's possible.

"RE: Younger and Younger"
Posted by dabo on 08-08-14 at 01:56 PM
Hannity still doesn't understand that "Colbert" is a parody of people like Hannity.