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Original Message
"Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by CSHS79 on 12-24-12 at 02:34 PM
After ten years of working for an Iowa dentist a 32 yr old hygenist was fired for being a threat to his marriage. The hygenist took it beofre her state's supreme court for improper firing and lost. Question is, who did the dentist replace her with? Unless it was a male hygenist, wouldn't that give the fired hygenist cause for an appeal? More imprtantly what woman would apply?
Table of contents
- Maybe,foonermints, 03:10 PM, 12-24-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,dabo, 03:29 PM, 12-24-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,WyoGuy44, 03:46 PM, 12-24-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,Snidget, 07:38 PM, 12-24-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,WyoGuy44, 07:56 PM, 12-24-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,Snidget, 08:08 PM, 12-24-12
- Not quite,AyaK, 00:28 AM, 12-26-12
- RE: Not quite,Snidget, 08:14 AM, 12-26-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,jbug, 07:06 PM, 12-24-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,WyoGuy44, 07:45 PM, 12-24-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,bondt007, 07:19 PM, 12-24-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,cahaya, 08:03 PM, 12-24-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,PepeLePew13, 03:54 AM, 12-25-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,AyaK, 00:36 AM, 12-26-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,cahaya, 01:29 AM, 12-26-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,AyaK, 06:11 PM, 12-26-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,Round Robin, 01:56 AM, 12-26-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,AyaK, 06:16 PM, 12-26-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,kidflash212, 12:22 PM, 12-25-12
- RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired,cahaya, 01:31 PM, 12-25-12
Messages in this discussion
"Maybe"
Posted by foonermints on 12-24-12 at 03:10 PM
A male hygenist would be even more of a threat?
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by dabo on 12-24-12 at 03:29 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-24-12 AT 03:30 PM (EST)Really bad decision apparently based on the fact that it wasn't gender discrimination. Regardless, it was still unfair discrimination; she was just too pretty. She was fired without a genuine cause, her work was fine and she did nothing wrong, on an occassion or two when her blouse was deemed inappropriate she immediately covered up with a lab coat, etc. Nor were she and the dentist having an affair, nor was there any flirting, nothing. His wife just didn't like that she was just too gosh-all pretty to be working with her man. (Saw her picture on TV and she seemed just a nice normal woman whose looks were fairly common actually, the wife must be damned ugly or something.) Honestly, was it anything she could do anything about, the dark paranoia in some other person's head? Ugly up her make-up I suppose. Throw acid in her own face. Unfair.
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by WyoGuy44 on 12-24-12 at 03:46 PM
I havent seen this story but ,I agree the wife must be truly paranoid. If the hygenist was covering herself when it was deemed somehow inappropriate and she and the dentist werent involved. Then in my opinion she was fired without cause.
Handcrafted by Agman
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by Snidget on 12-24-12 at 07:38 PM
If it is a Right To Work State you can be fired for any reason at all. There is no need to be fired "with cause". You are employed at the whim of the employer and if the whim changes you are out of luck.
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by WyoGuy44 on 12-24-12 at 07:56 PM
Where I work they do fire people willy nilly.*no they dont*

Handcrafted by Agman formerly known as deer. d.h.
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by Snidget on 12-24-12 at 08:08 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-24-12 AT 08:19 PM (EST)There may be places that are more ethical or need to follow certain rules about firing people (like the state usually is more restrained than the private sector).
But generally a lot of the "right to work" laws end up making it much easier to fire people for no particular reason.
Now a lot of places don't fire people willy-nilly (even if they can) because training replacements is costly and too many whimsical firings gets the people you wanna keep to start looking hard for work somewhere else.
And it depends on what contracts they do set up with the employees that may restrain what they can do but only because they voluntarily do it because it sets up a better quality of people. It does seem to effect those at the low end of the scale more than the upper end where you can demand a contract that gives you protections the law may not.
Maybe your Right to Work laws are different, but in this state as long as they can say it wasn't one of the illegal discrimination things they don't need a "cause" to fire you. The boss doesn't like the color of your socks is just as valid as we caught you stealing out of the till. Or the boss is just in a bad mood and decided firing someone today would boost their mood and you happened to be the first person they saw that morning.
Like I said, this may have consequences if you are too whimsical too often, but it ain't illegal. Just as long as it wasn't because of your race or religion and they can say it was the color of your socks with a straight face in court.
"Not quite"
Posted by AyaK on 12-26-12 at 00:28 AM
LAST EDITED ON 12-26-12 AT 00:29 AM (EST)This has nothing whatsoever to do with "right to work". Instead, it turns around another doctrine known as "employment at will".
In general, in North America, unlike Europe, you have no right to your job, and you can be terminated without cause. There are three primary exceptions to this rule: public policy, discrimination, and implied contract.
A handful of states have recognized an implied warranty of good faith and fair dealing in employment, which would mean that an employee could only be fired for just cause, but no midwestern state has.
"RE: Not quite"
Posted by Snidget on 12-26-12 at 08:14 AM
Ah, got the two things collapsed, but usually I've heard more worrying about "employment at will" in the states that do the whole "right to work" thing, or when "right to work" is being implemented.I got warned by a few people when moving to the South from the Midwest about it, but then again the states I moved from had, at the time, pretty strong unions so that may be why they wanted to collapse the two.
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by jbug on 12-24-12 at 07:06 PM
Coincidentally, my sister actually worked for my current boss about 30 years ago. His business was relatively new at the time; she did a little of what I do now.Anywho, the bosses wife was jealous. He "let her go" because his wife did not want a woman working there.
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by WyoGuy44 on 12-24-12 at 07:45 PM
Once again paranoid women.
Handcrafted by Agman formerly known as deer. d.h.
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by bondt007 on 12-24-12 at 07:19 PM
I read this a few days ago and found it pretty fascinating. I wonder if there is more to the story we have been told...
>Issued by "Q" and RollDdice
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by cahaya on 12-24-12 at 08:03 PM
Yeah, I read this a few days ago too. I had thought about posting about it to get AyaK's reaction from a legal viewpoint.I'm not sure I buy the argument that it's not gender discrimination. The firing would never happen with a male, only with a female, based on the reasons given. That itself is gender bias.
Why did he hire her to start with if she was too attractive to him?
To him. That's where the blame lies. It's his perception of her and his internal weaknesses that are being used as justification, not anything she did whatsoever.
Maybe Satan started whispering "little nothings" about her in his ears. Beware ye temptation!
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 12-25-12 at 03:54 AM
LAST EDITED ON 12-26-12 AT 01:03 AM (EST)This case is a bunch of poppycock. If she really was a "threat" to the dentist's marriage, how did he survive with the hygienist there for ten years until his wife started complaining? And I'm surprised the lady didn't sue him for sexual harassment judging from some of the comments he made such as his pants bulging at her appearance or commenting on her sex life by comparing her to a Lamborghini.
This case is going to set women back in Iowa In a big way and open the door to further abuse in boss-employer relations.
Oh, and if the dentist is sexually frustrated or needs help getting things going with his wife, may I suggest a certain therapist who just recently came into a lot of $$$ and also lives nearby in Iowa?
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by AyaK on 12-26-12 at 00:36 AM
Thanks. I should have read down further before I posted above.It would only amount to gender discrimination if he was firing her because she was a woman. He's not.
Would this happen to a man? Well, have you seen the number of successful women (not just Heidi Klum and Kate Gosselin) who have flings with their bodyguards?
For example, after reading his bitter post-split comments about his soon-to-be-ex-wife "fornicating with the help", do you think Seal might have asking for Heidi to fire her bodyguard when he realized that she was attracted to him?
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by cahaya on 12-26-12 at 01:29 AM
It would only amount to gender discrimination if he was firing her because she was a woman.Corollary: It would only amount to gender discrimination if he was firing her because she was an irresistable woman.
What's your take on SCOTUS position in this? Does the additional adjective really make a legal difference?
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by AyaK on 12-26-12 at 06:11 PM
The adjective does make a difference. Let's consider:1. It would only amount to < > discrimination if he was firing her because she was a black woman.
Yes, that's discrimination, but not gender discrimination; it's racial discrimination.
2. It would only amount to < > discrimination if he was firing her because she was a lesbian woman.
That's discrimination, too, but based on sexual orientation, not gender.
3. It would only amount to < > discrimination if he was firing her because she was a Jewish woman.
Again, discrimination, but it's religious discrimination.
For it to be gender discrimination, the adjective can't be relevant. If the adjective is relevant, then it isn't gender discrimination.
So let's try this again:
It would only amount to < > discrimination if he was firing her because she was an irresistable woman.
We know that isn't gender discrimination, because he isn't just firing her because she was a woman. So what discrimination is it? Discrimination against the good looking?
In general, good-looking people don't get discriminated against. They may get harassed, but I haven't read an analysis of this case that posits a cogent theory of this being sexual harassment.
Sorry, but I think the Iowa Supreme Court had this right.
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by Round Robin on 12-26-12 at 01:56 AM
If she has proof the guy fired her because his wife wanted him to, can she sue the wife for tortious interference with her employment?
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by AyaK on 12-26-12 at 06:16 PM
Not unless the wife made false claims and accusations about the hygienist's reputation in order to induce her husband to fire the hygienist.There has to be a tort somewhere in the line of conduct for a tortious interference action to succeed.
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by kidflash212 on 12-25-12 at 12:22 PM
After ten years? Sounds suspicious, perhaps this was the workplace version of "It's not you, it's me". An excuse because the dentist doesn't want to address the real reason for letting her go.
Another workplace issue - would this guy have a discrimination case if he was fired:
"You're Co-Workers Complained..
"RE: Iowa Dental Hygenist Fired"
Posted by cahaya on 12-25-12 at 01:31 PM
Don't be fooled into thinking the man can't help himself—the Smoking Gun has a blurred-face photo allegedly of the man posed with Pepe Le Pew. To think, all this time, Le Pétomane's successor has been hiding in plain sight.One of our community has made the news!