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Original Message
"Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by batts on 06-19-07 at 10:27 AM
Say goodbye to oil from the Middle East.
Check out this website showing how about the only thing left to improve on is the hot battery problem. I say put a refrigerator around the battery, and sell the car!

I think the biggest drawback now is how will Bush try to stall these efforts, seeing as he's so vested in oil.

Here come the electric cars! 70 to 100 miles per gallon! And if you drive only 35 miles a day... No gas needed! Did I read that right? Woo Hooo. Am I celebrating this too early? What are your thoughts?

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Messages in this discussion
"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by dabo on 06-19-07 at 10:36 AM
Shucks. Has no one even considered that relying on the electrical grid puts us under the thumb of Canada?


"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by Maroonclown on 06-19-07 at 10:40 AM
*rubs hands together like evil lord*

BWAHAHAHAHAHA - Welcome, my pretties.

"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by batts on 06-19-07 at 09:27 PM
Actually, I decided to try to look at the more positive aspects of the electric car. Who doesn't want to be free of middle eastern oil? Not to mention that this car will not pollute the air... that we are today trying to breath. And that
is if... you call the air that we breath today 'Oxygen'.

Canada? What's wrong with our Canadian neighbor to the north? Last time I checked, they weren't trying to kill our soldiers, and each other.

>under the thumb of canada...<
I'm not quite sure what you are talking about, but given a choice of buying power from the middle east, or from Canada, I vote CANADA.

I'm frankly surprised that I am the only person excited about the 'Electric Hybrid'. If anybody cares.... This car will help bring our troops home. Watching what is going on in the middle east, on just about ANY news station anymore, makes me sick physically. And knowing that it's mostly about oil, makes me very sad.

I lvoe Canada. What's wrong with the Canadians? I must be missing something, because I always viewed the Canadian people to be some of the friendliest people around!

"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by dabo on 06-19-07 at 10:02 PM
Oh, I've no problem with Canada, they're handy to blame every time there's a major blackout in the north or when a mad cow wanders into Idaho. And I like the idea of electric cars. But I don't like the idea of relying on an unreliable system like the electrical grid. When it goes down it goes down big.


"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by batts on 06-19-07 at 10:26 PM
Oh, ok... I was beginning to think there was something wrong with my out of control optimism (I was excited). G.M. is "testing how people will react to this technology".... and I kindof thought it was the greatest idea around.

Every time I go back home, on my way (I think around Sweetwater TX) I see all these big wind propellar generators on the hills. Literally hundreds of them. And I saw a clip on how they are planning on building around a thousand or so ... south of Lubbock? ... to provide power to the panhandle of Texas? For some reason, that seems to be a good thing to me. I've heard they are expensive to do repairs on, and upkeep (those are bad points)... but given the choice of those big wind propellars on the hills, and the other choice of new smokestacks and refineries, drilling and polluting ... I vote
propellars on the hills.

I'm sure theres plenty wrong with my premature excitement about new forms of energy, and how it will be exploited by corrupt government once implemented. But nothing could be worse than continuation of the oil we import now.

"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by AyaK on 06-20-07 at 00:35 AM
>I'm sure theres plenty wrong with my premature excitement about new
>forms of energy, and how it will be exploited by
>corrupt government once implemented. But
>nothing could be worse than continuation of the oil we import now.

You know why those windmills are being built? Tax breaks. They actually lose money, but the refundable tax credits for building them makes it profitable to do.

Refundable tax credit = direct government subsidy.

As long as we subsidize them, they'll be built and kept in operation. We stop? They'll become big monuments to the folly of using the tax code to set energy policy.

"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by Maroonclown on 06-20-07 at 09:07 AM
I'm calling foul dabo. Was the blackout in August of 2003 not directly tied to Ohio? Last time I checked Ohio was south of our border.

But I'll grant you the mad cow thing. We seem to have a few.

"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by newsomewayne on 06-20-07 at 09:14 AM
Down here we call that PMS.

*runs*


"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by Maroonclown on 06-20-07 at 12:18 PM
Did you? Just call me? A Mad Cow????

*WHACK*

MOO!!

"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by jbug on 06-21-07 at 02:53 PM
Don't be too hard on Wayne. I think he mis-read "clown" as "cow" - that's all. Just an innocent little mistake.


Sharina gave me this Southern Comfort so blame her if I get hot silly.
"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by dabo on 06-21-07 at 01:00 AM
Oh yeah, that's right, Canada blamed Ohio. Fair is fair, I never had a problem with that. I seem to recall that squirrels or chipmonks or wombats or something also got blamed at some point. That's a great thing about the electrical grid, lotsa blame to go around, fingers can get pointed every which way.

Say, here's a great idea, let's place even more stress on the electrical grid and burdon ourselves to rely upon it primarily for daily transportation, that way when it goes down in a big way we'll have massive transportation issues we wouldn't have otherwise had as well as everything else and of course figuring out how to blame Canada.

Now, when are you going to do something about those geese?


"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by dragonflies on 06-21-07 at 04:02 PM
Well, just think. When the antiquated power grid fails, we would all have a day off of work! Well, unless you work for the power company.


split by Slicey

"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by AyaK on 06-19-07 at 09:43 PM
The people who will be trying to stall these efforts aren't Bush and other oil interests -- it will be coal interests. If oil wasn't under such tight demand, all the power plants would burn oil, because it's cleaner and more productive than coal, so you can generate more wattage with less downtime.

Plug 'em in, and help consume oil!

Hahahahahahahahahaha.

"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by HobbsofMI on 06-20-07 at 09:29 AM
Why not put a vegetable oil engine in it????


Save the Cheerleader Save the World
sig by Pepe and bouncy by IceCat

"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by smokeysmom on 06-20-07 at 09:39 AM
LAST EDITED ON 06-20-07 AT 09:42 AM (EST)

I share your excitement about the possibilities of alternative to middle eastern (and Venezuelan for that matter) oil. The points everyone brought up about electricity are valid too -- there would definitely have to be infrastructure changes to make this viable.

I do think that lobbyists / our government don't exactly go the extra mile when looking at alternative energy (sun, wind, used vegetable oil from restaurants!, etc.) and do believe that has to do with special interests (though I don't have the time right now to back that up with statistics -- don't pounce!).

I've been fascinated with Brazil's ability to convert to ethanol and get out of the stranglehold of independence on foreign oil. For a country that doesn't do well in protecting children, the rainforest, etc. it seems to be a leader in this dept. Here's an interesting URL:

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817

(Exerpt: "Over the past three decades Brazil has worked to create a viable alternative to gasoline. With its sugarcane-based fuel, the nation may become energy independent this year. Brazil’s ethanol program, which originated in the 1970s in response to the uncertainties of the oil market, has enjoyed intermittent success. Still, many Brazilians are driving “flexible fuel” cars that run on either ethanol or gasoline and allow the consumer to fill up with whichever option is cheaper – often ethanol. ")

Interesting topic to be sure!


one of Sharninas beauties

Edited for typo

"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by AyaK on 06-20-07 at 10:20 AM
Sugar cane-based ethanol is much better and cheaper than the corn-based ethanol that we use in the US. So why does the US use corn-based ethanol? Because the US restricts the importation of sugar cane.

Oil interests have no role in that restriction. Instead, the people behind it are an unholy alliance of US sugar producers (aka "Big Sugar"), who don't want the competition from lower-priced imports, and US corn processors (aka "Big Farm"), who benefit from huge government subsidies and have exploited the sugar restrictions with high fructose corn syrup (which replaced sugar in Coke and other soft drinks) and corn ethanol.

And government? It's no surprise that, since 1976, the primary season has started in Iowa instead of New Hampshire. Big Farm wants to make sure to weed out anyone that might be inclined to change this cozy little anticompetitive arrangement.

"RE: Prepare to 'Plug Em In""
Posted by smokeysmom on 06-20-07 at 10:33 AM
Super interesting -- I didn't realize that about Big Sugar and Big Farm. The special interests are so serpentine its a challenge to dig down to "square one." All of it so frustrating and anti-progress for the benefit of all of us, and the planet (which everyone is suddenly having a renewed interest in.)

What's next? Special interest Big Pharma prevents cures for illnesses from being developed because it will cut into their medication profits? I wouldn't be surprised.


another beauty by Sharnina!

"Driving Survey"
Posted by jbug on 06-21-07 at 02:50 PM
Since most Americans drive less than 35 miles per day,

This fits me (about 2 miles a day), but very few other people I know - at least those who work.
So, how about a survey here.

Do you drive more than or less than 35 miles a day? (meaning would you have to "stop and plug up" or switch to gas for part of your commute or not?)


"Pinched" by Agman

"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by Snidget on 06-21-07 at 03:04 PM
My round trip is about 60 miles a day so I'd be on gas for the trip home but still better than gas the whole way. I could see employers providing plugs for the hybrids/electrics as a perk to increase use of alternatives, after all some places in cold areas provide plugs for block heaters.

Now the "lets make it hard for people to use alternatives" news for the day is that several upscale shopping areas in Raleigh have banned city buses. Too bad for the low paid people that work at the shopping centers who now have long walks to complete the commute or those who might want an alternative to driving.


Summertribe and the living is easy!

"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by smokeysmom on 06-21-07 at 03:19 PM
Wow snidget, that's awful, and makes me wonder how that can possibly be legal? Do you have any more info about how it came to be? I remember a similar case when I lived in Atlanta and a neighborhood association tried to stop the MARTA train line from reaching a particular mall (Lenox Square) that they didn't want all "people" to have access to. In that case the powers that be (mayor, transit board pres., city council etc.) were the not-so-subtly-referenced "people" and put a stop to that.

Discouraging mass transit is a new twist to be sure. (For the record, I don't have a car but that's a whole 'nother story in Manhattan -- not a big "whoop".)


another beauty by Sharnina!

"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by Snidget on 06-21-07 at 03:32 PM
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/611691.html is the article.

{snark} See the bus is in the parking lot once every hour and someone might get hit by one of those things. It's a menace or something. Shouldn't be scaring people like that. It just ain't right {/snark}

So those hugely expensive oversized SUVs that need a video camera so you can see what is behind you are not scaring people? Oh but they have money or something they'd want them.

*sigh*

"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by smokeysmom on 06-21-07 at 03:42 PM
LAST EDITED ON 06-21-07 AT 03:44 PM (EST)

*sigh* is right. Of course the idea of limiting one's customer base is just plain stupid. Interestingly enough, it's not just, or always, affluent customers that want the "hi-end" goods -- idiots. (by idiots I mean the sellers, not the buyers in this case -- that's a whole 'nother thread!)

I don't have any legal background, but I guess they can do it because it's private property? and the parking lots too? Does anyone know?

double *sigh*

And here we were worrying about the stress electric cars would put on the power grid


another beauty by Sharnina!

Edited to clarify use of "idiots".

"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by AyaK on 06-21-07 at 03:58 PM
Wow snidget, that's awful, and makes me wonder how that can possibly be legal?

Parking lots, even mall parking lots, are private property. The mall owner has granted a general right of access to the lot for the limited purpose of parking while shopping. That right of access doesn't encompass having a city bus stop in the lot. Thus, if the mall owner so desires, it could indeed have any city bus stops in the lot removed.

Not sure why it would want to do so, though. But it can.

"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by smokeysmom on 06-21-07 at 04:22 PM
Thanks for the clarity, I thought private property would play a part. "The limited purpose of parking while shopping" gets my wheels spinning: I would imagine the shopping centers have a fair amount of traffic and parking, be it deliveries, etc. that "aren't for the limited purpose of shopping" -- but that's me looking for a loophole or a way to beat them at their somewhat transparent game.

I'd be tempted to park the bus for a moment ...


another beauty by Sharnina!

"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by Silvergirl1 on 06-21-07 at 04:48 PM

That's sad.

Here in my city, the local transit company had "Dump the Pump" day. All rides on city transit are free today.


A 2007 Sharnina original


"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by Snidget on 06-21-07 at 06:04 PM
On the other side of the triangle where I work, Chapel Hill, they worked out a deal with the University and everyday is free ride day. Student fees and some other taxes pay for it all. Since they have a more stable guaranteed income they've been able to add more routes and add a bus or two to some of the routes so they run more often.

The Triangle Transit peeps that do the between the cities routes have a free day every so often, sometimes when they add routes or if something is going on that would make people want to try the bus.

I haven't heard (yet) of any of the other cites having the shopping centers blocking out the buses. Not sure why North Raleigh is getting so snooty all of a sudden.



Summertribe and the living is easy!

"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by byoffer on 06-21-07 at 04:03 PM
My round trip is about 25kms (15 miles) so I could use the electro-car.

I think Snidget could also use the car, despite the length of her commute. She says 60 miles /day, but there is no reason that she couldn't "plug in" at work. I would suggest that most outdoor parking lots in Edmonton have outlets for drivers to plug in their block heaters during the day. The same could happen for recharging batteries.

(I do not know if one pays extra to use the electrical lots in Edmonton. Anyone know about this?)


"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by Snidget on 06-21-07 at 06:06 PM
I'm not sure most people around here have any concept what a block heater is.

You don't really need them when it rarely gets more than a dozen or so Fahrenheit degrees below freezing.


Summertribe and the living is easy!

"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by byoffer on 06-21-07 at 06:10 PM
My point wasn't about block heaters, but rather parking lots with plug-ins. If they can have them in parking lots in Edmonton for the winters, they can have them anywhere for plugging in electric cars.


"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by AyaK on 06-22-07 at 10:32 AM
Those of us who worked on cars that were being sent to Churchill, Manitoba know all about block heaters, even if we live south of the 49th parallel.

There was a special insulation package required on GM cars being sold in northern Canada; I spent a lot of time at the old Scarborough Assembly Plant working on it.

"RE: Driving Survey"
Posted by Snidget on 06-22-07 at 10:44 AM
I'm just imagining trying to explain to people about the concept of why other places have plugs in the parking lots, so we should be able to do it here.

A few peeps in the warm know what a block heater is, but that whole it gets how cold, your car does what, so it needs a what kinda thingy????

When you barely get winter it is hard to convince people it exists, just watch them drive in the snow (or how they've usually handled snow removal), complete denial of the concept of winter explains a lot.

I mean we got shut down for 1 inch of slushy stuff that turned to ice because of the why bother with it attitude. If we pretend it doesn't exist it will go way. Some kids had to spend the night at their school because they couldn't be sent home safely.


Summertribe and the living is easy!