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Original Message
"The President outlines his plans"

Posted by RudyRules on 05-25-04 at 00:09 AM
Did anyone else watch the speech tonight.
Overall I gave it an A-.
He provided the outline for the rest of our time in Iraq and made a compelling case for finishing the job.
We will be turning over more and more authority to the Iraqis and will be supplying them with the tools to secure their future.
While more specifics in the plans regarding how we are going to pacify the enemy would have been helpful, the fight against terrorism continues and I am thankful that GW is in command and not Al Gore.

Your 2003 College Football Pool Ultimate Prize Winner!


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Messages in this discussion
"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 05-25-04 at 00:28 AM


I must say that it was the best speech I've heard him give. As far as his delivery went, I've heard 5th graders do a better job at "Show & Tell". But I digress. What he actually said was great, but he didn't reveal any new insight. Let's see, we're turning over power to Iraq on June 30...Iraq will have elections in January of '05...Iraqis need to take the security of their country into their own hands...We're going to destroy Abu Ghraib (with the new government's permission)...We're not going to let the terrorist destroy our resolve...It's all rhetoric at this point. He lies, and he's going down. I wish Al Gore was president.



The evolution continues...


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by nailbone on 05-25-04 at 10:33 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-04 AT 10:36 AM (EST)

Cap, why is it that I get the impression that the only thing he coulda said last night that you (and others) would like is "I resign"?



Cool new sig courtesy of Jslice o-


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by PagongRatEater on 05-25-04 at 10:36 AM
Nailbone! Where have you been? You got called out by Bacon and I even singled you out for props in my 1000th post!

Good to see you back around the OT.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by nailbone on 05-25-04 at 10:43 AM
Hi, PRE! I was in Vegas for the weekend. I took care of Bacon yesterday. Congrats on 1k!

Glad to be back!



Cool new sig courtesy of Jslice o-


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by PagongRatEater on 05-25-04 at 10:45 AM
Vegas is sweet! I just spent a week there about a month ago. Where'd you stay? More importantly, did you come back with more than you left with?


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by nailbone on 05-25-04 at 10:50 AM
We stayed at that new Hyatt Regency Lake Las Vegas Resort.

Go to see the Eagles at the MGM Grand.

And yep, came back with more than we left with! Not a ton, but enough to make it a free trip.



Cool new sig courtesy of Jslice o-


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by J Slice on 05-25-04 at 10:38 AM


Well, if he had, y'know, adressed some, y'know, major problems in his speech, instead of saying virtually nothing, I would've liked it a whole lot more.


They all called me sexy Randall, the Pharaoh wizard. - Randall, Clerks - The Cartoon


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by nailbone on 05-25-04 at 10:44 AM
Well, if he had, y'know, adressed some, y'know, major problems in his speech,

Such as?



Cool new sig courtesy of Jslice o-


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by J Slice on 05-25-04 at 10:47 AM


I think certain prison mishaps for one, instead of just talking about Berg, whose family is already pissed off at Bush.


They all called me sexy Randall, the Pharaoh wizard. - Randall, Clerks - The Cartoon


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by nailbone on 05-25-04 at 10:54 AM
Well, IMO, that wasn't the purpose of this speech. That'll come when all the investigating is finished (I hope).

This speech was to reassure "us" that there is indeed a plan in effect and that we're not just going willy-nilly for the next month plus.



Cool new sig courtesy of Jslice o-


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by seahorse on 05-25-04 at 05:04 PM
You hit the nail on the head. He wanted to assure us that a plan was in effect.

"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by GlassJax on 05-25-04 at 11:02 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-04 AT 11:04 AM (EST)

As an aside, it bothers me when people take on military titles that they don't rate.

Captain Savem, please tell me you are in fact a captain in something. The Army, even the Air Force would count. Maybe you own your own boat, which would be streatching it, but acceptable in my eyes. Captain of your High School sports team? Anything at all?


Tactless, yet unrefined.
Edit - Spelling fix


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by J Slice on 05-25-04 at 11:04 AM


Duh, he's a superhero?


They all called me sexy Randall, the Pharaoh wizard. - Randall, Clerks - The Cartoon


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by GlassJax on 05-25-04 at 11:14 AM
Yea, I understand that.

It is just when nailbone used "Cap" up above, it took me a bit to realize who he was replying too.

"Cap", "L.T.", "Sarge", "Top", "Gunny", "Gunner" while officaially frowned upon by most military establishments, are mostly used as terms of respect and endearment by military personnel.

I disagree with people using any titles are that don't rate, such as certain talk-show personnalities using Dr. after recieving and honorary PhD.

Tactless, yet unrefined.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by diamond on 05-25-04 at 11:19 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-04 AT 11:20 AM (EST)

What about outfits? Do you disapprove when people who aren't in the military dress up in flightsuits?

ETA: Usually you can tell who someone is replying to by where the post is. Nailbone's post was a direct reply to Captain_Savem, so it should be obvious that that's who he was replying to.



"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by GlassJax on 05-25-04 at 11:25 AM
I have no problem with actors dressing up appropriotly for rolls they are portraying.

I assume you are refering to GWB little stunt on the aircraft carrier. It seemed a bit over-board to me, but technically he did earn his AF pilot wings in his stint in the Texas Air Guard. I believe that flightsuits are required when flying in military jet aircraft that have ejection seats. I don't have a NATOPS handy, so can't verify that statement.


Tactless, yet unrefined.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by nailbone on 05-25-04 at 11:49 AM
Sory 'bout that, Jax. Jst using a little short-name familiarity there.

certain talk-show personalities using Dr. after recieving and honorary PhD.

I'm not sure who you're talking about, but the one I'm thinking of that goes by Dr. actually has a doctorate in psychology.



Cool new sig courtesy of Jslice o-


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 11:05 AM
As an aside, it bothers me when people take on a military titles that they don't rate.

*rolls eyes*

For cryin out loud. Do you also not play "Clue" because Col. Mustard is fictional?

Sheesh.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by PagongRatEater on 05-25-04 at 11:08 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-04 AT 11:08 AM (EST)

Do you also not play "Clue" because Col. Mustard is fictional?

HE'S NOT!!!


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 11:10 AM
HE'S NOT!!!

Sorry PRE sweetie. But, Professor Plum really is a professor if that helps.




--pats PRE's hand


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by diamond on 05-25-04 at 11:15 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-04 AT 11:21 AM (EST)

What about Colonel Sanders? Is (or was, I suppose) he really a Colonel? Do we have to boycott KFC????


Thinks she will start asking people to call her Brigadier General Diamond from now on.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 11:19 AM
I'll call you Brigadier General Diamond if you promise to call my Major Misto.


--but only in a musical Major kind of sense


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by diamond on 05-25-04 at 11:23 AM
I will call you anything you want, babe!



"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Schnookie Palookie on 05-25-04 at 11:58 AM
*salutes* Brigadier General Diamond and Major Misto.

Private Nookie reporting for duty!


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Lisapooh on 05-25-04 at 12:01 PM
who doesn't want a little private nookie?

"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 12:11 PM
who doesn't want a little private nookie?

Unless you're an exhibitionist of course.


--prefers privacy


"sorry, jax..."
Posted by cqvenus on 05-25-04 at 11:09 AM

but nobody owes you any explanation for anything.

ever.

~ cq


"RE: sorry, jax..."
Posted by GlassJax on 05-25-04 at 11:16 AM
That's fine. I'll still ask.

FTN

"RE: sorry, jax..."
Posted by Lisapooh on 05-25-04 at 11:48 AM
I really am a princess so no one better eff with me about it. Buggy is a total pretender to the throne though.

"RE: sorry, jax..."
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 11:54 AM
Buggy is a total pretender to the throne though.

I'd like to see ya say it to her face!

No really I would, because that would mean I was in the same room with both of you.


--has no and wants no claims on OT royalty


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by true on 05-25-04 at 11:46 AM
As an aside, it bothers me when people take on military titles that they don't rate.

Ooooo, the Princess is gonna be maaaad. Not to mention the Queen.

Please, tell us how you feel about royalty.

-true
*pretends she cares*


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Lisapooh on 05-25-04 at 11:53 AM
Actually, I think being offended by someone calling themselves Captain Savem is about the funniest thing I've heard this month.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 05-25-04 at 11:56 AM


I was a captain of my high school baseball team once, actually twice but it was the same team so I don't count that. My name comes from a saying that my friends and I have whenever luck happens in the most unlikely of situations. It also means that it's my duty to shed truth and justice where there is dispair and injustice. Whether that is 'acceptable' to you is of little or no importance to me. You must be a republican.



My definition of a republican is the consuming fear that someone...somewhere...is happy.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by GlassJax on 05-25-04 at 12:12 PM
See he does have a legitimate claim to the title of Capt. I'm glad I asked, because I always like to hear why people pick their screen names.

And for the record -
1. I have no problems with anyone's claim to royalty.
2. It really wasn't offence that I felt, more that just a twing in the back of my mind.
3. I am not registered with any of the major political parties. I have voted predominatly republican for the last 15 years on the national and state levels. Locally, I have voted for candidates that were GOPers, Dems, Libratarians, and Indys.


You could have just hidden behind CqV's statement. It's nice to see someone answer for themselves. Thank you Savem.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 05-25-04 at 12:19 PM


You were just testing me weren't you? If you wanted to know why I picked my screen name, there was a better way to go about asking. But hey, I'm the newbie here, I can take it. No hard feelings.



The evolution continues...


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by GlassJax on 05-25-04 at 12:36 PM
I am continually told that I ask questions in an adversarial manner. I'll try to work on that, but I haven't had much sucsess. You can tell by a number of the responses that most people do have hard feelings towords me because it. I'm glad I didn't alienate you too much.


Newbie, Old-timer - makes little difference to me.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by nailbone on 05-25-04 at 12:41 PM
My definition of a republican is the consuming fear that someone...somewhere...is happy.

OK, now THIS I have a problem with. I'm a Republican, and I want lots of happy people around me.


Cool new sig courtesy of Jslice o-


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by tig_ger on 05-25-04 at 02:31 PM
My definition of a republican is the consuming fear that someone...somewhere...is happy.

OK, now THIS I have a problem with. I'm a Republican, and I want lots of happy people around me.

Me too, Nailbone. What an odd definition. Oh, well, I must go off and make some people unhappy.


Captain Savern might want to get out more...


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 05-25-04 at 03:10 PM


always willing to hear other alternative definitions...


The evolution continues...


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by dabo on 05-25-04 at 03:04 AM
I watched the speech. Overall, I'll give Dubya a B. I think some of his expectations are unrealistic, such as establishing a democracy in Iraq; but philosophically I don't disagree with the concept, I just think it is an unrealistic expectation. I also thought the proposed Iraqi Army of 35,000 troops would need a lot of ongoing support, it is insufficient to promote stability in the region on its own.

Dubya: Thank you all. Thank you and good evening. I'm honored to visit the Army War College. Generations of officers have come here to study the strategies and history of warfare. I've come here tonight to report to all Americans, and to the Iraqi people, on the strategy our nation is pursuing in Iraq and the specific steps we're taking to achieve our goals.

The actions of our enemies over the last few weeks have been brutal, calculating and instructive. We've seen a car bombing take the life of a 61-year-old Iraqi named Izzadine Saleem, who was serving as president of the governing council. This crime shows our enemy's intention to prevent Iraqi self-government, even if that means killing a lifelong Iraqi patriot and a faithful Muslim.

Mr. Saleem was assassinated by terrorists seeking the return of tyranny and the death of democracy.

We've also seen images of a young American facing decapitation. This vile display shows a contempt for all the rules of warfare and all the bounds of civilized behavior. It reveals a fanaticism that was not caused by any action of ours and would not be appeased by any concession.

We suspect that the man with the knife was an Al Qaida associate named Zarqawi. He and other terrorists know that Iraq is now the central front in the war on terror, and we must understand that as well.

The return of tyranny to Iraq would be an unprecedented terrorist victory and a cause for killers to rejoice. It would also embolden the terrorists, leading to more bombings, more beheadings and more murders of the innocent around the world.

The rise of a free and self-governing Iraq will deny terrorists a base of operation, discredit their narrow ideology and give momentum to reformers across the region.

This will be a decisive blow to terrorism at the heart of its power and a victory for the security of America and the civilized world.

Our work in Iraq has been hard. Our coalition has faced changing conditions of war and that has required perseverance, sacrifice and an ability to adapt.

The swift removal of Saddam Hussein's regime last spring had an unintended affect. Instead of being killed or captured on the battlefield, some of Saddam's elite guards shed their uniforms and melted into the civilian population.

These elements of Saddam's repressive regime and secret police have reorganized, rearmed and adopted sophisticated terrorist tactics. They've linked up with foreign fighters and terrorists. In a few cities, extremists have tried to sow chaos and seize regional power for themselves.

These groups and individuals have conflicting ambitions, but they share a goal. They hope to wear out the patience of Americans, our coalition and Iraqis before the arrival of effective self-government and before Iraqis have the capability to defend their freedom.

Iraq now faces a critical moment. As the Iraqi people move closer to governing themselves, the terrorists are likely to become more active and more brutal.

There are difficult days ahead, and the way forward may sometimes appear chaotic. Yet our coalition is strong and our efforts are focused and unrelenting, and no power of the enemy will stop Iraq's progress.

(APPLAUSE)

Helping construct a stable democracy after decades of dictatorship is a massive undertaking. Yet we have a great advantage. Whenever people are given a choice in the matter, they prefer lives of freedom to lives of fear.

Our enemies in Iraq are good at filling hospitals, but they don't build any. They can incite men to murder and suicide, but they cannot inspire men to live in hope and add to the progress of their country. The terrorists only influence is violence and their only agenda is death.

Our agenda, in contrast, is freedom and independence, security and prosperity for the Iraqi people.

And by removing a source of terrorist violence and instability in the Middle East, we also make our own country more secure.

Our coalition has a clear goal, understood by all: to see the Iraqi people in charge of Iraq for the first time in generations.

America's task in Iraq is not only to defeat an enemy, it is to give strength to a friend -- a free, representative government that serves its people and fights on their behalf.

And the sooner this goal is achieved, the sooner our job will be done.

There are five steps in our plan to help Iraq achieve democracy and freedom: We will hand over authority to a sovereign Iraqi government; help establish security; continue rebuilding Iraq's infrastructure; encourage more international support; and move toward a national election that will bring forward new leaders empowered by the Iraqi people.

The first of these steps will occur next month, when our coalition will transfer full sovereignty to a government of Iraqi citizens who will prepare the way for national elections.

On June 30th, the Coalition Provisional Authority will cease to exist and will not be replaced. The occupation will end and Iraqis will govern their own affairs.

America's ambassador to Iraq, John Negroponte, will present his credentials to the new president of Iraq. Our embassy in Baghdad will have the same purpose as any other American embassy: to assure good relations with a sovereign nation.

America and other countries will continue to provide technical experts to help Iraq's ministries of government, but these ministries will report to Iraq's new prime minister.

The United Nations special envoy, Lakhdar Brahimi, is now consulting with a broad spectrum of Iraqis to determine the composition of this interim government. The special envoy intends to put forward the names of interim government officials this week.

In addition to a president, two vice presidents and a prime minister, 26 Iraqi ministers will oversee government departments from health to justice to defense. This new government will be advised by a national council which will be chosen in July by Iraqis representing their country's diversity.

This interim government will exercise full sovereignty until national elections are held.

America fully supports Mr. Brahimi's efforts, and I have instructed the Coalition Provisional Authority to assist him in every way possible.

In preparation for sovereignty, many functions of government have already been transferred. Twelve government ministries are currently under the direct control of Iraqis.

The ministry of education, for example, is out of the propaganda business and is now concerned with educating Iraqi children. Under the direction of Dr. Ala'din al-Alwan, the ministry has trained more than 30,000 teachers and supervisors for the schools of a new Iraq.

All along, some have questioned whether the Iraqi people are ready for self-government, or want it, and all along, the Iraqi people have given their answers.

In settings where Iraqis have met to discuss their country's future, they have endorsed representative government, and they are practicing representative government.

Many of Iraq's cities and towns now have elected town councils and city governments, and beyond the violence a civil society is emerging.

The June 30th transfer of sovereignty is an essential commitment of our strategy.

Iraqis are proud people who resent foreign control of their affairs, just as we would. After decades under the tyrant, they are also reluctant to trust authority.

By keeping our promise on June 30th, the coalition will demonstrate that we have no interest in occupation. And full sovereignty will give Iraqis a direct interest in the success of their own government.

Iraqis will know that when they build a school or repair a bridge, they are not working for the Coalition Provisional Authority, they are working for themselves.

And when they patrol the streets of Baghdad or engage radical militias, they will be fighting for their own country.

The second step in the plan for Iraqi democracy is to help establish the stability and security that democracy requires.

Coalition forces and the Iraqi people have the same enemies: the terrorists, illegal militia and Saddam loyalists who stand between the Iraqi people and their future as a free nation.

Working as allies, we will defend Iraq and defeat these enemies.

America will provide forces and support necessary for achieving these goals.

Our commanders had estimated that a troop level below 115,000 would be sufficient at this point in the conflict. Given the recent increase in violence, we will maintain our troop level at the current 138,000 as long as necessary.

This has required extended duty for the 1st Armored Division and the 2nd Light Cavalry Regiment -- 20,000 men and women who were scheduled to leave Iraq in April. Our nation appreciates their hard work and sacrifice, and they can know that they will be heading home soon.

General Abizaid and other commanders in Iraq are constantly assessing the level of troops they need to fulfill the mission. If they need more troops, I will send them.

The mission of our forces in Iraq is demanding and dangerous.

Our troops are showing exceptional skill and courage.

I thank them for their sacrifices and their duty.

(APPLAUSE)

In the city of Fallujah there has been considerable violence by Saddam loyalists and foreign fighters, including the murder of four American contractors. American soldiers and Marines could have used overwhelming force.

Our commanders, however, consulted with Iraq's governing council and local officials and determined that massive strikes against the enemy would alienate the local population and increase support for the insurgency.

So we have pursued a different approach. We're making security a shared responsibility in Fallujah. Coalition commanders have worked with local leaders to create an all-Iraqi security force, which is now patrolling the city.

Our soldiers and Marines will continue to disrupt enemy attacks on our supply routes, conduct joint patrols with Iraqis to destroy bomb factories and safe houses, and kill or capture any enemy.

We want Iraqi forces to gain experience and confidence in dealing with their country's enemies. We want the Iraqi people to know that we trust their growing capabilities, even as we help build them.

At the same time, Fallujah must cease to be a sanctuary for the enemy. And those responsible for terrorism will be held to account.

In the cities of Najaf and Karbala and Kufa, most of the violence has been decided by a young radical cleric who commands an illegal militia. These enemies have been hiding behind an innocent civilian population, storing arms and ammunition in mosques and launching attacks from holy shrines.

Our soldiers have treated religious sites with respect, while systematically dismantling the illegal militia.

We're also seeing Iraqis themselves take more responsibility for restoring order. In recent weeks, Iraqi forces have ejected elements of this militia from the governor's office in Najaf.

Yesterday, an elite Iraqi unit cleared out a weapons cache from a large mosque in Kufa.

Respected Shia leaders have called on the militia to withdraw from these towns. Ordinary Iraqis have marched in protest against the militants. As challenges rise in Fallujah, Najaf and elsewhere, the tactics of our military will be flexible.

Commanders on the ground will pay close attention to local conditions and we will do all that is necessary by measured force or overwhelming force to achieve a stable Iraq.

Iraq's military police and border forces have begun to take on broader responsibilities. Eventually, they must be the primary defenders of Iraqi security as American and coalition forces are withdrawn. And we're helping them to prepare for this role.

In some cases, the early performance of Iraqi forces fell short. Some refused orders to engage the enemy. We've learned from these failures and we've taken steps to correct them.

Successful fighting units need a sense of cohesion so we've lengthened and intensified their training. Successful units need to know they are fighting for the future of their own country, not for any occupying power. So we are ensuring that Iraqi forces serve under an Iraqi chain of command.

Successful fighting units need the best possible leadership.

So we improved the vetting and training of Iraqi officers and senior enlisted men.

At my direction and with the support of Iraqi authorities, we are accelerating our program to help train Iraqis to defend their country.

A new team of senior military officers is now assessing every unit in Iraq's security forces. I've asked this team to oversee the training of a force of 260,000 Iraqi soldiers, police and other security personnel. Five Iraqi army battalions are in the field now, with another eight battalions to join them by July 1st.

The eventual goal is an Iraqi army of 35,000 soldiers in 27 battalions fully prepared to defend their country.

After June 30th, American and other forces will still have important duties. American military forces in Iraq will operate under American command as a part of a multinational force authorized by the United Nations.

Iraq's new sovereign government will still face enormous security challenges and our forces will be there to help.

The third step in the plan for Iraqi democracy is to continue rebuilding that nation's infrastructure so that a free Iraq can quickly gain economic independence and a better quality of life.

Our coalition has already helped Iraqis to rebuild schools and refurbish hospitals and health clinics, repair bridges, upgrade the electrical grid and modernize the communication system.

And now a growing private economy is taking shape. A new currency has been introduced. Iraq's governing council approved a new law that opens the country to foreign investment for the first time in decades. Iraq has liberalized its trade policy. And today, an Iraqi observer attends meetings of the World Trade Organization.

Iraqi oil production has reached more than 2 million barrels per day, bringing revenues of nearly $6 billion so far this year, which is being used to help the people of Iraq.

And thanks in part to our efforts, to the efforts of former Secretary of State James Baker, many of Iraq's largest creditors have pledged to forgive or substantially reduce Iraqi debt incurred by the former regime.

We're making progress. Yet there still is much work to do.

Over the decades of Saddam's rule, Iraq's infrastructure was allowed to crumble while money was diverted to palaces and to war and to weapons programs.

We're urging other nations to contribute to Iraqi reconstruction, and 37 countries, and the IMF and the World Bank, have so far pledged $13.5 billion in aid.

America has dedicated more than $20 billion to reconstruction and development projects in Iraq.

To ensure our money is spent wisely and effectively, our new embassy in Iraq will have regional offices in several key cities. These offices will work closely with Iraqis at all levels of government to help make sure projects are completed on time and on budget.

A new Iraq will also need a humane, well-supervised prison system. Under the dictator, prisons like Abu Ghraib were symbols of death and torture. That same prison became a symbol of disgraceful conduct by a few American troops who dishonored our country and disregarded our values.

America will fund the construction of a modern maximum security prison.

When that prison is completed, detainees at Abu Ghraib will be relocated. Then with the approval of the Iraqi government, we will demolish the Abu Ghraib Prison as a fitting symbol of Iraq's new beginning.

(APPLAUSE)

The forth step in our plan is to enlist additional international support for Iraq's transition.

At every stage, the United States has gone to the United Nations to confront Saddam Hussein, to promise serious consequences for his actions and to begin Iraqi reconstruction.

Today the United States and Great Britain presented a new resolution in the Security Council to help move Iraq toward self- government.

I directed Secretary Powell to work with fellow members of the council to endorse the time table the Iraqis have adopted, to express international support for Iraq's interim government, to reaffirm the world's security commitment to the Iraqi people and to encourage other U.N. members to join in the effort.

Despite past disagreements, most nations have indicated strong support for the success of a free Iraq, and I am confident they will share in the responsibility of assuring that success.

Next month at the NATO summit in Istanbul, I will thank our 15 NATO allies who together have more than 17,000 troops on the ground in Iraq.

Great Britain and Poland are each leading a multinational division that is securing important parts of the country. And NATO itself is giving helpful intelligence and communications and logistical support to the Polish-led division.

At the summit, we will discuss NATO's role in helping Iraq build and secure its democracy.

The fifth, and most important step is free national elections, to be held no later than next January.

A United Nations team headed by Carina Perelli is now in Iraq helping form an independent election commission that will oversee an orderly accurate national election. In that election, the Iraqi people will choose a transitional national assembly, the first freely- elected, truly representative national governing body in Iraq's history.

This assembly will serve as Iraq's legislature and it will choose a transitional government with executive powers. The transitional national assembly will also draft a new constitution, which will be presented to the Iraqi people in a referendum scheduled for the fall of 2005.

Under this new constitution, Iraq will elect a permanent government by the end of next year.

In this time of war and liberation and rebuilding, American soldiers and civilians on the ground have come to know and respect the citizens of Iraq. They're a proud people who hold strong and diverse opinions.

Yet Iraqis are united in a broad and deep conviction. They're determined never again to live at the mercy of a dictator.

And they believe that a national election will put that dark time behind them.

A representative government that protects basic rights, elected by Iraqis, is the best defense against the return of tyranny. And that election is coming.

(APPLAUSE)

Completing the five steps to Iraqi elected self-government will not be easy.

There's likely to be more violence before the transfer of sovereignty and after the transfer of sovereignty. The terrorists and Saddam loyalists would rather see many Iraqis die than have any live in freedom.

But terrorists will not determine the future of Iraq.

(APPLAUSE)

That nation is moving every week toward free elections and a permanent place among free nations.

Like every nation that has made the journey to democracy, Iraqis will raise up a government that reflects their own culture and values.

I sent American troops to Iraq to defend our security, not to stay as an occupying power. I sent American troops to Iraq to make its people free, not to make them American.

Iraqis will write their own history and find their own way.

As they do, Iraqis can be certain a free Iraq will always have a friend in the United States of America.

(APPLAUSE)

In the last 32 months, history has placed great demands on our country and events have come quickly.

Americans have seen the flames of September 11th, followed battles in the mountains of Afghanistan and learned new terms like orange alert and ricin and dirty bomb.

We've seen killers at work on trains in Madrid, in a bank in Istanbul, in a synagogue in Tunis and at a nightclub in Bali. And now the families of our soldiers and civilian workers pray for their sons and daughters in Mosul, in Karbala, in Baghdad.

We did not seek this war on terror, but this is the world as we find it. We must keep our focus.

We must do our duty.

History is moving and it will tend toward hope or tend toward tragedy.

Our terrorist enemies have a vision that guides and explains all their varied acts of murder. They seek to impose Taliban-like rule country by country across the greater Middle East.

They seek the total control of every person in mind and soul; a harsh society in which women are voiceless and brutalized. They seek bases of operation to train more killers and export more violence. They commit dramatic acts of murder to shock, frighten and demoralize civilized nations, hoping we will retreat from the world and give them free reign.

They seek weapons of mass destruction to impose their will through blackmail and catastrophic attacks.

None of this is the expression of a religion. It is a totalitarian, political ideology pursued with consuming zeal and without conscious.

Our actions, too, are guided by a vision.

We believe that freedom can advance and change lives in the greater Middle East as it has advanced and changed lives in Asia, in Latin America, in Eastern Europe and Africa. We believe it is a tragedy of history that in the Middle East, which gave the world great gifts of law and science and faith, so many have been held back by lawless tyranny and fanaticism.

We believe that when all Middle Eastern peoples are finally allowed to live and think and work and worship as free men and women, they will reclaim the greatness of their own heritage. And when that day comes, the bitterness and burning hatreds that feed terrorism will fade and die away.

America and all the world will be safer when hope has returned to the Middle East. These two visions -- one of tyranny and murder, the other of liberty and life -- clashed in Afghanistan. And thanks to brave U.S. and coalition forces and to Afghan patriots, the nightmare of the Taliban is over and that nation is coming to life again.

These two visions have now met in Iraq and are contending for the future of that country.

The failure of freedom would only mark the beginning of peril and violence. But, my fellow Americans, we will not fail. We will persevere and defeat this enemy and hold this hard won ground for the realm of liberty.

May God bless our country.

(APPLAUSE)
http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=2678


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by I_Got_Nutn on 05-25-04 at 09:09 AM
I didn't see it and I haven't had a chance to read the transcript, yet. Thanks Dabo!

I do think it was a brilliant political response to the Kerry campaign's "we have a plan." We aren't going to give specifics or talk about dates, but we have a plan and GWB doesn't. Well... GWB has a plan, so now Kerry has to show his plan or shut up about it.

Yeah, It's a JSlice


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by KeithFan on 05-25-04 at 09:33 AM


If Kerry did that the American people would be allowed to decide if it was "smarter", and, as elitist, he is apposed to anything near this.



"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by J Slice on 05-25-04 at 09:45 AM


How is he an elitist?

And try not to use the word "Kennedy"


They all called me sexy Randall, the Pharaoh wizard. - Randall, Clerks - The Cartoon


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Spidey on 05-25-04 at 03:00 PM
He comes from a privileged background and he went to Yale.

Oh, wait...





"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by KeithFan on 05-25-04 at 07:57 PM


...stepping back in after a hard days' work...

The best way to explain it would be to try to picture him as the oposite. A man of the people? Nah, not even the rosiest colored glasses could paint him as that. His best buddy has been a servent for crying out loud. Elitists, in general, look goofy when trying to do Ordinary Joe things (Insert Kerry picture here). And, anyone who says their plan is "smarter" with only giving vague details is saying "I would tell you, but you're not as smart as I am so you would just be confused".

Not that being an elitist is all bad, some great Presidents have been elitists, and some of that trait probably runs through all of our Presidents, but trying to paint Kerry as not an elitist just doesn't work.

How is the BF doing anyhow?



"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by J Slice on 05-25-04 at 08:03 PM


He still aches like crazy...

Looking for a replacement car is also quite tricky.


Duchess/Lifeguard of OT and Surrounding Territories


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by dabo on 05-25-04 at 09:51 AM
Kerry's response to the President's speech:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0524.html

“The President laid out general principles tonight, most of which we've heard before. What's most important now is to turn these words into action by offering presidential leadership to the nation and to the world. That's going to require the President to genuinely reach out to our allies so the United States doesn't have to continue to go it alone and to create the stability necessary to allow the people of Iraq to move forward. That's what our troops deserve, and that's what our country and the world need at this moment.”


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by dabo on 05-25-04 at 09:45 AM
It would be more or less impossible for Kerry to establish a timeline for his plan, but the basic conceptualization is available for any who wish to review it:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/iraq/

A Strategy for Success in Iraq

To establish security and move forward with the transition to Iraqi sovereignty, the President must show true leadership in going to the major powers to secure their support of Lakhdar Brahimi’s mission, the establishment of a high commissioner for governance and reconstruction, and the creation of a NATO mission for Iraq. These steps are critical to creating a stable Iraq with a representative government and secure in its borders. Meeting this objective is in the interests of NATO member states, Iraq’s neighbors and all members of the international community. True leadership means sharing authority and responsibility for Iraq with others who have an interest in Iraq’s success. Sharing responsibility is the only way to gain new military and financial commitments, allowing America to truly share the burden and the risk.

I. Make Iraq a Part of NATO’s Global Mission

NATO is now a global security organization and creating a stable and secure environment in Iraq must be one of its global missions. Every member of NATO has a huge stake in Iraq’s future. NATO agreement to take on this mission should be reached no later than the NATO summit in late June. NATO can take on this mission in phases, beginning with taking control of Iraq’s border security, and taking over responsibility for northern Iraq and/or the Polish sector, and the training of Iraqi security forces. This would free up as many as 20,000 American troops, open the door to participation by non-NATO countries like India and Pakistan, and send an important message to the American people that we are not bearing the security burden in Iraq virtually alone.

II. Authorize a High Commissioner for Governance and Reconstruction

An international High Commissioner should be authorized by the UN Security Council to organize the political transition to Iraqi sovereignty and the reconstruction of Iraq in conjunction with the new Iraqi government. Backed by a newly broadened security coalition, the High Commissioner will organize elections and the drafting of a constitution, and coordinate reconstruction. The High Commissioner should be an individual who is highly regarded by the international community and who has the credibility and capacity to talk to all the Iraqi people. The High Commissioner should be directed to work with Iraq’s interim government, the new US Ambassador, and the international community after June 30 to ensure a process that continues to move forward on the path toward sovereignty, while focusing on the immediate needs of the Iraqi people. While the process of establishing the High Commissioner is underway, we must fully support the efforts of Lakhdar Brahimi to set-up an Iraqi interim entity.

III. Launch a Massive Effort to Build an Iraqi Security Force

We need a massive training effort to build an Iraqi security force that can actually provide security for the Iraqi people. We must accept that the effort to date has failed and must be rethought and reformed. Training must be done in the field, on the job as well as in the classroom. This key task should be part of the NATO mission, and units should be put on the street with backup from international security forces. The creation of viable Iraqi security forces – military and police – is crucial to a successful exit for us and other international forces.


Protecting Our Military Families in Times of War: A Military Family Bill of Rights

John Kerry has proposed a Military Family Bill of Rights that will provide our military families with competitive pay, good housing, decent health care, quality education for their children, first rate training, and the best possible weaponry, armor, and state-of-the-art equipment.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by cqvenus on 05-25-04 at 09:55 AM

how very good for you, RR. i am glad you are pleased with our president. i am glad this is the USA, where the minority opinion is welcome to also be expressed. and thus you have opined.

thank you dabo, for giving all that info. i'll have to come back and read it all this afternoon.

~ cq



"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Esbea on 05-25-04 at 10:20 AM
It really seemed to me that this speech was geared more to the Arab "street" than to the American Public. I think we are seeing the beginning of a big PR push. Not that he couldnt use it.


I dont think he said anything "new"


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by deerhunter on 05-25-04 at 10:42 AM
I'm waiting for him to tell Iraq that we are taking oil as payback for the money we spent fighting the war.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by dabo on 05-25-04 at 10:50 AM
Well, don't hold your breath. That money isn't coming back any time soon, the best we can hope for is that the investment will pay off in the long run and a more stable situation in the Middle East will emerge eventually out of all of this. Saddam's regime was a thorn in everyone's side.

"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by RuffNeck on 05-25-04 at 11:11 AM
>Saddam's regime
>was a thorn in everyone's
>side.


I can't seem to understand why people keep forgetting this. Granted, I'm a conservative who is very unhappy right now with the current administration, but let's not lose sight of the fact this man abused and tortured hundred of thousands of his own people not to mention adjacent countries.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Thistlethorn on 05-25-04 at 05:40 PM
Agreed 100%, RuffNeck. What we have done in Iraq is a GOOD thing. Wars are messy and yes there was some minor abuse of Iraqi terrorists (big deal), but it is certainly not comparable to the horrors Saddam inflicted on his people and on Iran and Kuwait.

"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 05:52 PM
Wars are messy and yes there was some minor abuse of Iraqi terrorists (big deal),

You're seriously are saying "big deal" and calling the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners "minor"? I just need to understand that's what you're really saying before I say anymore.


--added emphasis to convey her shock


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Thistlethorn on 05-25-04 at 05:56 PM
Yes, it is minor. Minor in comparison to beheadings, castrations, electrocution and the other tortures used by the Iraqis.

"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by J Slice on 05-25-04 at 05:59 PM


Except that we DID electricute. Or we tried, anyway.

So you're saying that it's ok if someone shoots off all your limbs or something, that's perfectly acceptable and ok because, oh thank the lord, you're not dead?

That's pretty screwy logic.


Duchess/Lifeguard of OT and Surrounding Territories


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Thistlethorn on 05-25-04 at 06:06 PM
What? Who got their limbs shot off? Which Iraqi prisoners got electrocuted? Sure, it is not nice to humiliate people and those who did are getting court martialled (sp?). Was it a mistake, sure but it is not on the same level. If it was, then, for example, verbal assault could be treated the same as physical assault. I guess I just don't understand your post.

"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by J Slice on 05-25-04 at 06:09 PM


The limb thing was a metaphor.

The guy with the pointy hood on his head (I'm certain you've seen the picture) was hooked up to electrodes, and was standing on a box. If he fell off the box, ZAP.

And these are not our own people. These are people, many of whom should not be in prison, and we're applying pressure in appalling ways.


Duchess/Lifeguard of OT and Surrounding Territories


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by RuffNeck on 05-25-04 at 06:35 PM
I haven't had a chance to get on and respond since posting earlier, but here it goes. As mentioned I am a conservative who is NOT a big Bush supporter right now, (Although Nader would get my vote before Kerry) but I think this whole prison scandal has become politicized. First thing is we need to admit to the abuses, then follow it however high up the chain of command it goes, and prosecute those who are at fault. But let's move on already. There are over 100,000 soldiers over there who ARE doing the right thing. Are we going to be fed a new picture every week until the elections, if this is the case where is the constant outrage over the beheading of Berg? For this man to be slaughtered like a farm animal and for it to just blown off blows me away.

"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Thistlethorn on 05-25-04 at 06:48 PM
I think it is indicitive of the way the media works. Their agenda is not to report the news, but to editorialize and push stories as proof of their views. Anything that helps their argument gets hammered away at for extended periods of time. Anything that hurts their argument gets dismissed quickly. This is true of both the left and the right.

"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 07:40 PM
if this is the case where is the constant outrage over the beheading of Berg?

It's been said before when someone has brought up what they view as a lack of outrage regarding the beheading of Berg and I'll say it again now: There is outrage. Those that did the killing will be punished when they are found. BUT they are not in our custody, therefore we cannot doing anything right now. When they are found (and I have no doubt whatsoever they will be) we can have our "pound of flesh" from the people who actually KILLED Berg. Personally I think it's worth outrage and I am outraged.

The soldiers who have abused prisoners ARE within our grasp. They have smeared the, not so shiny in a fair portion of the worlds eyes, name of America with shit. We're touting ourselves as the liberators of the Iraqi people. We're saying we saved them from the torture and rape rooms, yet in the very prison where SH abused his own people, we do the same thing? Personally I think that's worth outrage and I am outraged.

I see these things as two completely different sets of issues and two completely different sets of outrage.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by TechNoir on 05-25-04 at 07:57 PM
Mr. Neck, we had this discussion about "where's the outrage" less than a week ago. Perhaps a perusal of this thread might shed some light on your question.

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID6/13163.shtml

Sig thanks to some cold cat
"Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to gnaw through those leather straps." Emo Philips


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 08:04 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-04 AT 08:06 PM (EST)

Oh sure Tech, show me up with an actual link to the thread!


--fell one step back on her journey to be JLT with that miss

edited to fix a stupid mistake


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by TechNoir on 05-25-04 at 07:12 PM
I've struggled mightily, but this requires a response.
yes there was some minor abuse of Iraqi terrorists (big deal)

There was abuse of Iraqi citizens rounded up and thrown in Abu Ghraib for questioning. Those same citizens have been released by the hundreds with no indication that they have any connection to terrorism. They are the people we say we are liberating.

And as far as the level of abuse, I personally believe that the rape of children goes far beyond 'minor' abuse. I think it is a very big deal
Sig thanks to some cold cat
"Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to gnaw through those leather straps." Emo Philips


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 07:53 PM
See? That's what I get for not reading through all the posts before I start typing. If I had read just one post down, I would have seen that Tech already said in 7 sentences, what I took a million to say.


--is on her way to being "Just Like Tech"


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Devious Weasel on 05-25-04 at 10:50 AM
Considering that they didn't ask us to come over there and invade, why should we have the right to take the oil? I mean, isn't that like saying "I'm going to steal your stuff to make up for the money I spent to break and enter your home"? And considering much of the Arab world already thinks the only reason we attacked was to take the oil, wouldn't that be somewhat self-defeating? We've already said we would use oil revenues to help pay for the reconstruction. We should probably leave it at that.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by deerhunter on 05-25-04 at 10:56 AM
Good Point DW!


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by PagongRatEater on 05-25-04 at 11:02 AM

For the second time in two days, I agree with the Weasel (I won't let it become a habit). I think that regardless of the justification we cannot use oil revenues to cover the cost of the war BUT the cost of keeping the peace and rebuilding the country are fair game. The best benefit would be if a democratic regime were permanently established in that region. I am certainly hopeful, but not cocksure on that one.



"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 11:14 AM
, but not cocksure on that one.

*Mmmmpppfff* *mmmmmpppfff*

*mmpff*

*mmppff* *mmffp* *mmppff*


--mmmpppppfffs


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by TechNoir on 05-25-04 at 07:15 PM
I am so proud of you insectivorous one. *snicker*

Sig thanks to some cold cat
"Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to gnaw through those leather straps." Emo Philips


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 07:45 PM
Hee hee. Insectivorous. I like it!

*bows to Tech*


--pulls this one out for Tech


"Take it to the bank . . ."
Posted by mrc on 05-25-04 at 11:19 AM
Iraq will not be a democracy for very long, if ever.

Official CASH Historian--Vote RR-Boner '04


"RE: Take it to the bank . . ."
Posted by Devious Weasel on 05-25-04 at 12:39 PM
Do you have plans?

Do you need help?


"Unhappy Iraqis"
Posted by dabo on 05-25-04 at 12:55 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5046836/

The U.S.-British blueprint for Iraq now before the U.N. Security Council was met Tuesday with concerns from other governments and even the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council, whose chairman said the proposal fell short by not granting greater control over Iraq's own security forces.

“We found it less than our expectations,” Ghazi Mashal Ajil al-Yawer told reporters after a meeting of the council. “We as Iraqis see the necessity of the presence of (outside) forces,” he added. “But in the period to come we want to have the right to ask that these forces leave.”

And France was among the countries urging revisions to the proposal, which would provide the framework for an interim Iraqi government being sworn in on June 30.

Bush, for his part, said after the conversation that "what President Chirac and others have said is they want to make sure that the transfer of sovereignty to the interim government is a real transfer and that’s what we want.”

In Baghdad, the Iraqi Governing Council issued a statement saying it wanted to discuss full Iraqi control of “the activities of the Iraqi armed forces and security forces,” as well as over oil reserves and the Iraqi Development Fund, established last year by the United States to use oil revenues to pay for reconstruction.

Council member Ahmad Chalabi went further, saying the draft resolution “will fail the test for Iraqi sovereignty... One of the foundations of sovereignty is that the Iraqi government must control the armed forces regarding recruitment, supplies or movements.”

Another council member, Mahmoud Othman, said Iraqis were frustrated by the absence of Iraqi input in the drafting of the joint U.N. resolution and that Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari would travel to New York to raise Iraqi concerns to Security Council ambassadors.

Othman said the Governing Council also objected to provisions making U.S., British and other foreign soldiers immune from prosecution under Iraqi law.

Many in Iraq and in Europe fear that the interim government will not be seen as legitimate if it doesn’t have a credible voice in the operations of armed forces on its own soil.

With the June 30 transfer of sovereignty looming, Washington and London decided to start negotiations on the 2,400-word resolution, even though U.N. envoy Lakhdar Brahimi is still working on the makeup of the interim government. Key areas of the text will need to be filled in after Brahimi returns and the interim government is established — including how it will coordinate with the multinational military force.

Othman, a Sunni Kurd member of the Governing Council, said the multinational forces should be under United Nations’ command — a possibility ruled out by the Americans and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan.

Algeria’s U.N. ambassador Abdallah Baali, the only Arab representative on the Security Council, called the text “a good basis for negotiations.”


"RE: Unhappy Iraqis"
Posted by Esbea on 05-25-04 at 03:14 PM
I think Ahmad Chalabi has some of his own 'splainin to do to the Iraqi people before he claims to represent their interests so fully.


"Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for the night. Light a man afire, and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.''


"RE: Unhappy Iraqis"
Posted by Devious Weasel on 05-25-04 at 03:26 PM
Not to mention some splainin to us...


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by desert_rhino on 05-25-04 at 03:56 PM
You know, I watched a couple of minutes of this, and the only conclusion I could reach was that Shrub has become even MORE of a meat puppet than he was before.

It would be amusing to see some indication that the words going in the eyes and out the mouth were actually taking residence in the cranium.


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 04:00 PM
It would be amusing to see some indication that the words going in the eyes and out the mouth were actually taking residence in the cranium.

This would be incredibly funny if it weren't so true!


--loves it when JV says what she's thinking


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by nailbone on 05-25-04 at 04:45 PM
And again, why do I get the feeling that "I resign" was the only thing you really wanted to hear from him anyway?



Cool new sig courtesy of Jslice o-


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Thistlethorn on 05-25-04 at 05:44 PM
Don't worry Nailbone. The very fact that there are conservatives in this country irks the liberals to no end. Anyone who has a different opinion than them is simply attacked and ridiculed as stupid. The fact is, the liberals have no foreign policy other than wanting to get France to like us again.

"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by diamond on 05-25-04 at 05:48 PM
Dammit. This post broke my irony meter again. Does anyone know where I can get these things on bulk discount? I really can't afford to keep buying them retail.



"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by TechNoir on 05-25-04 at 07:16 PM
Hey, Sparkler, I get 'em in bulk and it doesn't help. In fact I'm having trouble lugging out the trash.

Sig thanks to some cold cat
"Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to gnaw through those leather straps." Emo Philips


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by J Slice on 05-25-04 at 05:53 PM


The department of hysterical oxymorons called, hon.

I'm with Sparkles on this one.


Duchess/Lifeguard of OT and Surrounding Territories


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 06:04 PM
The very fact that there are conservatives in this country irks the liberals to no end.

Nope, you're mistaken. We want the conservatives around. They're so very easy to bait and annoy. Besides, if we didn't have them, who would mention the Clenis as the reason why everything is wrong with the world.


--said it, oh yes she did, she said the Clenis


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by J Slice on 05-25-04 at 06:06 PM


You know what's funny in a very yucky way?

We've brought up the Clenis so many times as its own entity that I'm imagining a little cartoon wang with eyes and a smile. It's a cartoon character to me now... the adventures of Clenis.


Duchess/Lifeguard of OT and Surrounding Territories


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Shereebie on 05-25-04 at 06:10 PM
So you know what this means, Duchess Slicey...

Draw him for us!

LOL!


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by J Slice on 05-25-04 at 06:13 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-04 AT 06:49 PM (EST)



Read this comic ONLY if you aren't easily offended. It is absolutely sick and hysterical and completely NOT SAFE FOR WORK.

That is how I picture the Clenis.


Duchess/Lifeguard of OT and Surrounding Territories


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Thistlethorn on 05-25-04 at 06:13 PM
Oh I am not annoyed. The great thing is that we can have open debates and that we have the opportunity to chose one or the other. As for the Clenis, I don't blame him for the world, but I still can't understand why he was president twice.

"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by ginger on 05-25-04 at 05:58 PM
I would have been okay with "I don't know what I was thinking. We can't fix this country and we never found WMD. All these Americans dying over there...I'm pulling em all back. We'll offer utility aid and food to Iraqis but we'll leave the country. Maybe next time I will be less hasty before deciding to go to war."

I do NOT want to hear "I resign", because then our Evil Veep would be President.



"Any government that would deny a gay man bridal registry is fascist." Margaret Cho


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by J Slice on 05-25-04 at 06:01 PM


But but but...

The organ grinder is nothing without his monkey, dahling.

And yes, he IS much much worse.

As you read above (I hope), all I wanted was an appology. Of course, you can cut through the jingoism with a knife.


Duchess/Lifeguard of OT and Surrounding Territories


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by desert_rhino on 05-25-04 at 06:30 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-04 AT 07:15 PM (EST)


Well, that's not the first time I've been sold short, underestimated, and misinterpreted all in one sentence.

ETA: (fixed a typo) and also, I would have been more than excited to see some indication that he feels at all responsible for the abuses at Abu Ghraib. There is evidence that the orders that led to that state of affairs came from just below Rumsfeld, and it would have been refreshing as hell to hear something along the lines of,

"I/We screwed up. Somewhere in the chain of command, oversight broke down. We intend to do everything possible to fix the problem and punish those responsible."

As compared to the actual,

"A new Iraq will also need a humane, well-supervised prison system. Under the dictator, prisons like Abu Ghraib were symbols of death and torture. that same prison became a symbol of disgraceful conduct by a few American troops who dishonored our country and disregarded our values.

America will fund the construction of a modern maximum security prison.

When that prison is completed, detainees at Abu Ghraib will be relocated. Then with the approval of the Iraqi government, we will demolish the Abu Ghraib Prison as a fitting symbol of Iraq's new beginning. (and, one presumes, making the whole thing just "go away" without actually admitting that the whole thing was SOMEONE's responsibility, and they BLEW IT.)

...

I sent American troops to Iraq to defend our security, not to stay as an occupying power. I sent American troops to Iraq to make its people free, not to make them American.

Iraqis will write their own history and find their own way.

As they do, Iraqis can be certain a free Iraq will always have a friend in the United States of America.
...

Surely y'all can see the inherent difference in those two messages, yes?


"Whoa!"
Posted by Drive My Car on 05-25-04 at 07:09 PM

America will fund the construction of a modern maximum security prison.

Oh man! I missed this one ( probably because my hubby was heckling the pres so loud I couldn't hear what he was saying, and I haven't have time to read the entire transcript yet)

Ummm, I know, okay, stupid Buggy question time.

Do we have the money for this?
Can't this new goverment of Iraq sell it's oil and afford to build it's own prison?

I know I must not be getting it, but I really would like someone to explain this to me.

HOW MUCH MONEY IS THIS WHOLE THING COSTING US??! AND HOW MUCH MORE?



"RE: Whoa!"
Posted by desert_rhino on 05-25-04 at 07:17 PM
Money makes most problems go away. Ask Michael Jackson about that one.

"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by TechNoir on 05-25-04 at 07:23 PM
"meat puppet" ... rofl

Sig thanks to some cold cat
"Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to gnaw through those leather straps." Emo Philips


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by TechNoir on 05-25-04 at 07:21 PM
Second time you asked. I see that worm. So ...

I don't know why you get that feeling, Nailbone. That would produce President Cheney. I think the notion of President Cheney (yep, libs, I said it again) gives even the most moderate folks chills. I know not a single person who would prefer Mr. Cheney to Mr. Bush.

On the other hand "I have been totally wrong." would have been good.

Sig thanks to some cold cat
"Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to gnaw through those leather straps." Emo Philips


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 08:01 PM
I think the notion of President Cheney (yep, libs, I said it again) gives even the most moderate folks chills.

Picture mistofleas huddled in the corner, thumb in her mouth, rocking back and forth and chanting "happy place, happy place, I have to find my happy place...la la la la...happy place...where is my happy place...la la la la?


--shudders


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by ExInterper on 05-25-04 at 08:50 PM
Would some chocolate help? My mother sent me a belated (by a month) care package for finals that included a huge back of Lindt Lindor Truffles. I recommend the dark choloate ones.


Yet another Jslice masterpiece!
ExI? Thinks his mom is trying to get him fat and should share with someone other than his roommate who is saving her empty calories for her work related dinners.


"Are you sharing?"
Posted by Drive My Car on 05-25-04 at 09:04 PM

The chocolate?

Nice to see you, Terpie.



"RE: Are you sharing?"
Posted by ExInterper on 05-25-04 at 09:09 PM
Of course I will share! It can be part of your daily tribute. (Bows low before the queen....)


Yet another Jslice masterpiece!
Glad to be back by again. Stupid month off that wasn't really a month off...


"No bowing"
Posted by Drive My Car on 05-25-04 at 09:14 PM
Stop that!
I will partake of your candy though.


You know what they say about home? The place you are always welcomed? That is kinda like this place, only not as weird. *smile*


"RE: Are you sharing?"
Posted by diamond on 05-25-04 at 11:40 PM
Ooooh, I will take some, please. Just lob them across town, and I will catch them.


I used to work near a Lindt store and had to walk past it every day. I'm still not sure how I managed not to gain several hundred pounds.


"Impure Thought of the Day..."
Posted by IceCat on 05-26-04 at 01:27 AM
Bellybutton Lindt

Is certain that he really needs to get it more often...


"Musical Interlude"
Posted by true on 05-25-04 at 06:26 PM
Come one people, must we always post in circles... Let's sing!

Sung to the tune of the old Dr. Pepper jingle..

I'm offended.
You're offended.
He's offended.
She's offended.
Wouldn't you like to be offended to?
Be offended.
Read Off Topic.

Now, the insults are flying on both sides. Here are a couple of examples.


My definition of a republican is the consuming fear that someone...somewhere...is happy.

The very fact that there are conservatives in this country irks the liberals to no end. Anyone who has a different opinion than them is simply attacked and ridiculed as stupid. The fact is, the liberals have no foreign policy other than wanting to get France to like us again.

Now, if you ask me, and I'm sure you ARE asking me, I'd have to say that these types of generalized insults do nothing to strengthen your position on the issues. I'd be much more impressed if we could discuss said issues in a civilized manor, without all the stupid insults.

Or, we could sing some more!

*puts fingers in ears and sings*

LaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLa

Please continue the intelligent discussion.


"RE: Musical Interlude"
Posted by Thistlethorn on 05-25-04 at 06:31 PM
Sorry True. I will try to do better. I was just trying to give my take on the difference between Kerry and Bush. Bush says you are either against us or for us and Kerry says I will only take action if the European powers agree. I certainly think there is a middle ground, but I do believe in the right of the United States to defend itself and that it doesn't need the UN's approval to do it. Just my honest opinion.

"RE: Musical Interlude"
Posted by true on 05-25-04 at 06:50 PM
Much better! Thanks


This competition is not about who's singing in tune.--Simon Cowell


"RE: Musical Interlude"
Posted by TechNoir on 05-25-04 at 07:25 PM
Mr. (Ms.?) Thorn, I too believe in the right of the United States, or any sovereign nation, to defend itself. When did Iraq try to invade or attack the United States?

Sig thanks to some cold cat
"Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to gnaw through those leather straps." Emo Philips


"RE: Musical Interlude"
Posted by desert_rhino on 05-25-04 at 07:27 PM
Last Thursday.

"RE: Musical Interlude"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 07:52 PM
Last Thursday.

I was in an MRI tube so I missed it. Did we win?


--hearts JV with all her...heart


"RE: Musical Interlude"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 05-25-04 at 11:29 PM


Yeah, I'm sorry too. I'll try to play and work well with others. But, in my defense, GlassJax provoked me. And being the newbie that I am (and I know it's no excuse) I reverted back to what newbies do best -- generalize and stereotype. I can't say it won't happen again, but I can say I'll try to contain myself.



The evolution continues...


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by mistofleas on 05-25-04 at 10:10 PM
I finally got a chance to re-read the full speech which Dabo so nicely put in for us. (Thank you Dabo). The one thing that sticks out in my mind is what RR paraphrased We will be turning over more and more authority to the Iraqis...

I'm not holding my breath on this.

There's an old adage warning against too closely calculating the numerical value of unhatched chicks.

There are many many things that have to be done (since it's obvious that we're not going to be leaving anytime soon no matter what Mr. Bush may be trying to say to the contrary) and I just can't see this happening by June 30th.


--would prefer to have never been there in the first place


"RE: The President outlines his plans"
Posted by Drive My Car on 05-25-04 at 10:49 PM
I admit I still have not read all of the transcript of his speech, but the way I understood from his last speech; we are going to be there until after Iraq has it's first free elections. I believe that timetable is sometime in 2005.
So at least another year.

I could be sarcastic and just say, we are there, why not just make it a U.S. territory,since by the time we are done that country will be better than some counties in this Country. But I won't, because that that would be sarcastic and snotty, and mostly a bad joke.