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Original Message
"Whew!"
Posted by dabo on 04-27-04 at 12:01 PM
For a little bit there I thought Pat Robertson and I were on common ground on a separation of church and state issue. Turns out he was just putting his own anti-Islamic spin on something not really all that controversial (he yakked this up on his program last night).

http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/News/040422d.asp

Michigan City Approves Muslim Call to Prayer Broadcast (note: headline misleading)

The Muslim call to prayer can now be blared over loudspeakers in a Detroit suburb. The city council of Hamtramck, Michigan, has given preliminary approval to allow the prayers at a local mosque. (nice of them to allow Muslims the right to pray at their own Mosques: more spin, in other words)

From now on, five times a day, the Muslim call to prayer will sound in the quiet Polish-Catholic town. The issue to allow the prayers has been divisive, to be sure. (divisive, yes it certainly is, Robertson et al are doing there best to make it divisive anyway)

Muslims say the public call to prayer is like the sound of church bells. But the city council has spoken. The prayers can be broadcast, but they will be monitored.

Rob Cedar, a resident who voted for the ordinance, said, "We are allowing it to happen because it is religious freedom. But we are also regulating it because it is a sound issue, or a noise issue."

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Whew!"
Posted by okaloosajohn on 04-27-04 at 12:11 PM
"Muslims say the public call to prayer is like the sound of church bells".

Did you see the episode of Gilmore Girls about the church bells?

The bells had been broken for years, but someone died and left his money to have the bells repaired. Everybody was happy with the bells were rung the first time. And the second. And the third...but by the time they had been ringing every hour on the half hour for a week, the whole town was going crazy.


I'm just saying. Noise does need to be monitored!

"RE: Whew!"
Posted by dabo on 04-27-04 at 12:13 PM
LOL! No, I missed that episode. Thanks for relating the story.

SMILES ARE FREE

"RE: Whew!"
Posted by DSpunk on 04-27-04 at 02:42 PM
ever been to Venice?
"RE: Whew!"
Posted by Esbea on 04-27-04 at 12:13 PM
"For a little bit there I thought Pat Robertson and I were on common ground"

I can understand you fear! Thank goodness you figured it out before you decided to do something drastic!


"Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for the night. Light a man afire, and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.''

"RE: Whew!"
Posted by Tiggertramp on 04-27-04 at 12:26 PM
They don't really say if it is a short sound or a long prayer being played out. If it were long prayers being broadcast on a loud speaker, I don't care WHAT religious faith it is, it would make me batty and it shouldn't be allowed. A bell on the other hand saying "hey everyone gather it's time to pray" is another story.

Dabo, honey If I thought I was agreeing with Pat Robertson I would freakout completely. I totally understand.


Excellent siggy by JSlice, Worm by the Fab IceCat
I wish I were a glow worm, A glow worm's never glum...Cuz how can you be grumpy, When the sun shines out your bum??

"RE: Whew!"
Posted by HobbsofMI on 04-27-04 at 12:32 PM
It is a short sound, I think, that will last about 20 seconds as it was reported on the local news here in Detroit. The church bells were lasting up to one minute.

"RE: Whew!"
Posted by Esbea on 04-27-04 at 12:43 PM
its actually the call to prayer that they want to "broadcast". Its a reminder to the faithful to come and pray, and lasts less than 2 minutes and is done in Arabic in kind of a sing-song voice. I find it quite beautiful.


"Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for the night. Light a man afire, and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.''

"RE: Whew!"
Posted by Tiggertramp on 04-27-04 at 12:56 PM
Well, that's no big deal. I see no big thing there.

Now if any church were broadcasting long prayer things for an hour over loudspeakers, THEN I'd be cranky.

Like when I lived in Minneapolis, in a not so great part of town, there was a Baptist church who had these revivals on Saturday evenings and Sunday mornings outside, early Sunday mornings in the summer. At first it wasn't a big deal, you would hear some music wafting over (from a block away mind you) on occasion or the crowd ooo-ing. The kicker for me was when a preacher got on a tear and cranked the system at 7am Sunday telling the entire neighborhood how god was going to save us.

Sorry, nothing was going to save him from me. I called the cops. I was NOT the only neighbor who did so, thankfully. There were no more outdoor revivals. Turns out you need permits, and they didn't have one.

Bells? Tones?? A small announcement?? Heck I can live with that.

Excellent siggy by JSlice, Worm by the Fab IceCat
I wish I were a glow worm, A glow worm's never glum...Cuz how can you be grumpy, When the sun shines out your bum??

"RE: Whew!"
Posted by dabo on 04-27-04 at 02:21 PM
The way Robertson tried to spin it in his broadcast was that the city had somehow made a decision to convert to Islam; that's not quite how he worded it but that was the gist of his rant, as if the city were somehow devoting public resources to indoctrinational purposes. Thank goodness it turned out to be just more preposterous rabblerousing on his part.

SMILES ARE FREE

"RE: Whew!"
Posted by Tiggertramp on 04-27-04 at 02:27 PM
Oh, okay. So when the Catholic churches bells are going off, they are trying to convert the entire city?? Okay. I see his reasoning.

What a freak.


Excellent siggy by JSlice, Worm by the Fab IceCat
I wish I were a glow worm, A glow worm's never glum...Cuz how can you be grumpy, When the sun shines out your bum??

"RE: Whew!"
Posted by thetick on 04-27-04 at 02:58 PM
Pat Robertson - completely despicable dumbasz.... But

I think some are minimizing the intrusiveness of the call to prayer. As mentioned by Esbea it is a lot closer to 2 minutes than 20 seconds. The news report I saw clocked it at 1:45. Also, the mosques were arguing that as a religious org - the city had NO right to regulate its volume at all, effectively that they could play it as loud as they wanted. And, the call is played five times a day - the first of which is 6am. Imagine that on your block 5 times a day, starting at 6am, every day, for the rest of your life. I'd shoot somebody.

"RE: Whew!"
Posted by dabo on 04-27-04 at 04:13 PM
Right, it is simply an issue of amplification. Calls to worship at mosques, yes five times a day, are a traditional part of the religion, it is what they've always done, they just haven't always had loudspeakers. The city government has tried to avoid taking a stand on any religious grounds, it is simply saying they can do what they want as long as they abide by the civil standards that everyone has to abide by in terms of noise pollution, it really isn't any different than the church bells going off 24+ times a day in some places (and some churches nowadays don't even have actual bells, just an electronic amplification system simulating bells). The argument that they can do it as loud as they want hasn't been upheld, just that they have a right to do it within the standards that everyone in the community is obliged to observe.

That's what I determined from my various searches to find out what was going on here, anyway. Feel free to correct any misinterpretations I may be under, it's all good. Robertson is still a vile hatemonger in his approach to this issue, however.