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Original Message
"The Future of American Idol"
Posted by PagongRatEater on 05-25-10 at 02:42 PM

I admit, I am part of this season's missing audience. I watched all the audition shows as well as the first few weeks of competition, but I stopped watching.
I just didn't care what happened anymore.
It seems I am not alone in this assessment as rating are down and the future of the show is in doubt. For me that raises two questions about Idol.
1) Does Idol even come back next year?
The show still pulls ratings and does better than most things Fox could through out there to replace it. I think we assume yes and move on to question two.
2) How do you FIX the show?
I don't think that a tighter format and new judges are the cure-all, but I can see some help coming from that direction. Still, I think they need to freshen up the format. Survivor changes locations, mixes up the tribe and brings back favorites every five years. Each season has a twist of its own. How does Idol replicate that.
Would love to hear some opinions, thoughts and rumors. What do you all think?

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

Table of contents

RE: The Future of American Idol,Snidget, 03:06 PM, 05-25-10

Theme?,PagongRatEater, 03:19 PM, 05-25-10
RE: The Future of American Idol,zazzy, 04:43 PM, 05-25-10

Paula's not available.,Estee, 04:46 PM, 05-25-10

Really?!?,PagongRatEater, 04:51 PM, 05-25-10

RE: Really?!?,Estee, 05:03 PM, 05-25-10

RE: Paula's not available.,zazzy, 08:49 PM, 05-25-10

New and Different Themes,susang, 03:31 PM, 05-25-10
Survivor style.,Estee, 03:41 PM, 05-25-10
RE: The Future of American Idol,jbug, 04:13 PM, 05-25-10
RE: The Future of American Idol,geekboy, 07:40 AM, 05-26-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,Tummy, 09:43 AM, 05-26-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,geekboy, 11:49 AM, 05-26-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,okaychatt, 09:18 AM, 05-28-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,zazzy, 11:48 AM, 05-28-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,PagongRatEater, 09:45 AM, 05-26-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,frodis, 10:12 AM, 05-26-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,vince3, 10:12 AM, 05-26-10
RE: The Future of American Idol,riverrocker, 04:01 PM, 05-26-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,zazzy, 08:16 PM, 05-26-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,DoodleBug, 11:18 PM, 05-26-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,okaychatt, 09:27 AM, 05-28-10
RE: The Future of American Idol,Loree, 12:01 PM, 05-28-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,grit, 12:01 PM, 05-26-10
Madonna,PagongRatEater, 05:10 PM, 05-26-10

RE: Madonna,zazzy, 08:14 PM, 05-26-10

RE: Madonna,AyaK, 11:12 PM, 05-26-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,cahaya, 07:09 PM, 05-26-10
RE: The Future of American Idol,AyaK, 11:28 PM, 05-26-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,cahaya, 01:07 AM, 05-27-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,AyaK, 08:37 PM, 05-27-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,Estee, 09:06 PM, 05-27-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,cahaya, 10:23 PM, 05-27-10

RE: The Future of American Idol,cahaya, 11:50 PM, 05-26-10
Actual change #1,Estee, 06:53 PM, 05-27-10
RE: The Future of American Idol,samboohoo, 08:59 AM, 05-28-10
Actual change #2 & a ratings note.,Estee, 11:42 AM, 05-28-10

Messages in this discussion
"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by Snidget on 05-25-10 at 03:06 PM

They still make more money than most shows and have more viewers than most every other show so I think they will be back.

What I see they need.
1. Either go back to 3 judges or put a tight rein on the never ending babble that has them run over every freaking show. Get rid of Ellen, she isn't a good judge and she isn't that funny doing improv.
2. Supposedly they are going back to 1/2 hour results shows, hopefully at least one of the fall 1/2 hour sitcoms will survive that long. Sure it is nice to have more performances, but I think a tighter results show would be better.
3. Cast for TALENT rather than DEMOGRAPHICS. Why DWTS ratings came up was there was interesting people to watch and enough of them could actually dance it wasn't painful to keep watching.
However they won't do that, they will continue to cast 2-3 people they want to win and a bunch of second or third tier talent to fill up the slots.
I think they'd be amazed what would happen if they cast 24 really good singers. Sure the bestest ones may go out early, the judges/producers favorites may go out early, but everyone every week would be a good singer.
If they need something in addition to TALENT to cast for then personality, not SOB STORY, but interesting people who aren't like watching paint dry as the tie breaker between the really really good ones.
4. Ban all the songs sung 3 or more times on the show and pony up the money for some other songs. Really, you make enough money get the rights to more material, and more CURRENT material.
Telling people they sound like they are singing 40 year old songs and aren't current when they are in fact singing 40 year old songs....gah!!!

"Theme?"
Posted by PagongRatEater on 05-25-10 at 03:19 PM

Those are some good thought, but I don't know if it would be enough to bring me back. Regardless of the talent, I've seen this dance before - I need something new....at least for me.
What if they tried a theme like rock (or something else) only? I know its been done, but what about the concept of actually having them audition for a group. Rock Star: SuperNova was much better than what Idol is throwing out there.
Another thought: Bring back runners up and dispense with the auditions ciricus. It's fun, but maybe they could change things up and bring back people who did not make the finale (and who don't have enough of a career that they would be beyond this). Maybe you don't come up with enough talent or names to appeal to fans like me.
I REALLY like number 4. You are right on there.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by zazzy on 05-25-10 at 04:43 PM

ITA with Snidget.
If they cast actual talent for the top 12 and not just a few talented ones, more people will be interested to watch. Find people who can be on a stage and can handle an audience.
Boot Ellen...boot Kara...bring back Paula and add one new judge that knows something about the music industry and talent. I know many of you are gagging at the thought of bringing back Paula and I know it won't happen but she provided some heart for the program. Even if was fake, at least there was heart and not the lame jokes Ellen pawned off on us this season. Yes, I know Ellen has a contract and will be there next season so chances of having next season without her or Kara is slim to none.
Stop with the relentless agenda bs. I'm tired of the producers/judges agendas and bs treatment of talent. They picked them and then malign them. That is turning me off.
And stop with the ad nauseum back story ...Big Mike and his new baby? Katie and her grandmother with Alzheimers? Enough.
And fix the sound.

"Paula's not available."
Posted by Estee on 05-25-10 at 04:46 PM

She's officially signed onto a CBS dance competition show as She Who Wears Lot Of Hats (Mostly On Her Feet).
http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/paula-abdul-and-cbs-confirm-new-got-dance-reality-competition-11000.php

"Really?!?"
Posted by PagongRatEater on 05-25-10 at 04:51 PM

We need another frickin' dance show? Will they call it So You Think You Can Dance With Somebody Crazy?
Maybe we can get another dating show too.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

"RE: Really?!?"
Posted by Estee on 05-25-10 at 05:03 PM

Probably not a good time to show you the summer & fall schedules, huh?

"RE: Paula's not available."
Posted by zazzy on 05-25-10 at 08:49 PM

Ryan has a ton of jobs...why not Paula? ;) Yah, the network won't allow it.

"New and Different Themes"
Posted by susang on 05-25-10 at 03:31 PM

IMO, the main thing AI should do to "keep it fresh," is to have more theme week possibilities.
I'd like to see, in no particular order: heavy metal, reggae, new wave, punk, folk, 1950s, psychedelic, Los Angeles and/or California bands, the songbooks of The Carpenters, Chicago, Billy Joel, Tom Petty, David Bowie, et al., and any year picked at random, i.e., songs that were on the charts during the year 1967, for example.

"Survivor style."
Posted by Estee on 05-25-10 at 03:41 PM

LAST EDITED ON 05-25-10 AT 03:45 PM (EST)
Each season has a twist of its own.
So we send the AI judges into bars to recruit conventionally attractive (and stupid) people who've never heard of the show. Those form half the contestant pool, with the other half consisting of friends of the judges, people who have a relationship with the judges, and anyone currently having sex with the judges. Oh, and one contestant will be given the freedom to load everyone else's drinks with Comet, because destroying people's vocal cords along with just a tiny chance of killing them is good for the ratings!
I'm really looking forward to the first on-stage outfit burning.
Oh, and there's no actual singing ability required. After all, the game is frequently about allowing the most mediocre contestant to have the best chance at triumph. Why recruit the elite when they're just going to be early targets and their presence will make everyone else feel bad about themselves?
Gosh, this is fun. Let's see... we need a way to let contestants sabotage each other's recording studios and take away access to mentor time and voice coaches. And that's usually the show's job, so this may take a while. Now, where are we going to put that hidden immunity idol...?
This is all about getting RussHell on a public vote series, isn't it?

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by jbug on 05-25-10 at 04:13 PM

I agree PRE.
Carrie Underwood's season was the last one I watched completely. I said from the first time I heard her that she was awesome & a winner; and & was right (Simon was too....).
DH still watches it. He lurves the audition weeks with all the crazies. He watches but is less interested as they move into the finals because he doesn't recognize most of the songs they sing - I don't either. We are not into this century's music
We're old timers and like that old time rock & roll.
We seldom agree with the judges; when we think they are off key, the judges love them; when we think they did great, the judges rip them new ones.
& Ellen needs to go. She has nothing substantial to say - she's Randy's parrot.

Slicey took out the wrinkles '08

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by geekboy on 05-26-10 at 07:40 AM

For the record, I've watched Idol every year, and did this year too. I think a lot of the true talent was let go early. Alex Lambert, anyone? Lily?
Here is what I would like to see.
1) Replace _ALL_ the judges next year. Start from scratch with three judges again.
2) Cut down the audition shows to ONE OR TWO SHOWS where you show some silly ones, but also show all of the Top 24 auditions, so you end the week with your top 24.
3) Get to know every one of teh top 24 during Hollywood week, etc. Show more of what goes on during Hollywood week
4) DO NOT FORCE 12 girls and 12 guys. Start with the 24 most talented
5) Get rid of the themes. Let them pick their own songs throughout the entire competition. How can you 'represent who you are as an artist' while singing a disco song? Silliness.
6) Get rid of the judge's save.
7) Instead of mentors, how about having the judges work w/ the contestants every week???
I know. I'm crazy.
geekboy

"I think what Randy Travis was trying to say was 'What the hell was that?!'" - S. Cowell

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by Tummy on 05-26-10 at 09:43 AM

You're hired!
oh, wrong show - but I would
I loved last year, this year was boring in comparison.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by geekboy on 05-26-10 at 11:49 AM

I still believe that if Alex and Lily would have made the top 12, this season would have been a lot different, and I think Alex would have gone very far, possibly to the end.
America messed up on that one. That kid has huge potential and i'm glad to see Simon Fuller saw it too.
geekboy

"I think what Randy Travis was trying to say was 'What the hell was that?!'" - S. Cowell

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by okaychatt on 05-28-10 at 09:18 AM

Hi Geekboy - I missed it - what is Simon Fuller doing to promote Alex's career?

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by zazzy on 05-28-10 at 11:48 AM

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/americanidoltracker/2010/03/alex-lambert-joins-if-i-can-dream-cast-loses-mullet-.html

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by PagongRatEater on 05-26-10 at 09:45 AM

I agree on almost all your points, however I'm going to disagree on the judges save. I think that is a great change that makes sure people don't go home too early.
Just another thought - what about instead of voting FOR your favorite, the format is to vote out the person who you think didn't cut it. Would be an interesting format change and completely eliminate VFTW.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by frodis on 05-26-10 at 10:12 AM

The idea of voting to eliminate someone has been suggested a lot. I think it's a bad idea, for the simple reason that voting against people is just very negative and it's kind of against the supposed premise of the show, to find the next American pop idol. You get popular by getting your buzz out and getting your records sold, not by hoping that people dislike everyone else enough to have no other choice but to buy your stuff.
There's no good way to spin that kind of vote into anything other than negative and mean. "35 million people voted, and most of them HATE you!" Not cool. Plus, I don't think people will be as likely to vote. It's one thing to vote and see your person win and be relieved and happy about it. It's another to feel like part of a firing squad week after week crushing dreams and breaking hearts. I guess some people would like that. Most wouldn't.
Plus, I don't know why people have a problem with VFTW.

It's not just A Zombie Original, it's THE Zombie Original!

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by vince3 on 05-26-10 at 10:12 AM

If the bits that I saw from the British X-Factor Youtube clips are any indication, that may be coming for the American version..... Certain judges have semi-mentoring roles for certain acts.........
Outside of that, they're all great ideas, save for one problem: they make too much sense for the idjits at any network to do..............

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by riverrocker on 05-26-10 at 04:01 PM

"4) DO NOT FORCE 12 girls and 12 guys. Start with the 24 most talented
5) Get rid of the themes. Let them pick their own songs throughout the entire competition."
Geekboy, I agree 100%! Why in the world are they having people sing "prescribed" songs when the reason--at least in theory--that the contestant made the cut was due to their performance of a song of his/her choice?
If it means paying more for song rights, pay up! AI has made enough to do that.
It seems that the judges, mentors, and the entire program/format was just tired, stale, and blah this year. The poor contestants were given music that truly didn't reflect their talents.
We stopped watching AI in its entirety about half-way through the season and went to DVR to fast-forward 98% of everything; just listened to part of what they sang, which was mostly sad, blah, and bad.
Why, oh why, do they make these young people sing Sinatra or Elvis or Beatles? I know, those folks were "artists," but really, why do that? I flip stations if I hear songs like that; why would I ever buy a CD from someone who tries to imitate one of them?
Maybe part of the loss of AI's credibility and creativity was because the program was followed by "Glee," which had REAL talent!

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by zazzy on 05-26-10 at 08:16 PM

One of my friend's 13 year old daughter calls it "old people music". They skipped the Sinatra week.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by DoodleBug on 05-26-10 at 11:18 PM

And I'll add... let them sing their own material. If we truly want to know who we are really voting for, then they should be allowed to sing their own stuff.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by okaychatt on 05-28-10 at 09:27 AM

I so agree about letting the performers sing their own material. The ones that are not singer songwriters will be sol, but that's the breaks. If we really want to find someone whose cd we will buy, let us hear what they have to say.
Requiring new material would eliminate the judges' favorite line "You didn't show us who you are as a performer." They would have to come up with new material. We would know EXACTLY who they are and vote accordingly.
The best part of hearing original work would be NO "MENTORS". Come on - Miley Cyrus?! She's a performer, not an artist. I hear she does a great lap dance though. http://www.salon.com/life/broadsheet/2010/05/12/miley_cyrus_lap_dance

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by Loree on 05-28-10 at 12:01 PM

This is one thing Crystal mentioned in an interview after the finale. She wished she could have sang her own original material.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by grit on 05-26-10 at 12:01 PM

1. I've said this one numerous times over the last few years - limit the number of votes allowed from any telephone number. The vote results are heavily skewed because of the teens who have 2 full hours to vote endlessly. I don't bother to vote because my few votes would not make a difference compared to those powerhouse voters.
2. Stop with the fracking themes! Most of the artists/eras picked are too old-fashioned considering AI is looking for fresh, new artists.
3. Get rid of the audition episodes showing the good singers mixed with the freaks. Start with one or two episodes showing the auditions of only the ones who made it to Hollywood and then show Hollywood week. The freaks (while really funny and I love watching them) drag down the show. It encourages way too many people to audition, causing some good singers to get cut because of the time constraints on the producers.

Chocolately deliciousness by agman

"Madonna"
Posted by PagongRatEater on 05-26-10 at 05:10 PM

Is rumored as a potential replacement for Simon.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/usa/2985965/Madonna-is-being-lined-up-to-judge-American-Idol.html
Don't know how she would be as a judge, but I'm guessing she would have credibility in the business and definitely has beyotch potential. Interesting....

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

"RE: Madonna"
Posted by zazzy on 05-26-10 at 08:14 PM

Madonna and Ellen are buds.

"RE: Madonna"
Posted by AyaK on 05-26-10 at 11:12 PM

Scratch that idea. Any idea that would keep Ellen on the show is by definition stupid.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by cahaya on 05-26-10 at 07:09 PM

There's a saying somewhere, all (good) things come to an end.
As far as I can tell, I've outlived every single TV series in existence.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by AyaK on 05-26-10 at 11:28 PM

The biggest problem is the voting. That's how we get dud winners like Taylor Hicks, David Cook and Lee DeWyze. They simply stink.
The judges' save is part of the solution. But we need more of a way to keep interesting contestants around. It's always been a problem. But it seems to be getting worse, and this year was the worst of all. Lee shouldn't even have been in the final four, let alone win.
This year, there was a raft of quirky but talented women. The men were basically duds. But four of the last five were men, and Alex Lambert and Lilly Scott didn't even make the final 12. Michael Lynche would have been voted off 9th if not for the judges' save. Siobhan Magnus was sixth. Meanwhile, Tim Urban made the final seven and Aaron Kelly the final five.
AI, meet the shark. You just jumped it.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by cahaya on 05-27-10 at 01:07 AM

AI, meet the shark. You just jumped it.
Given national and local voting patterns endemic of our constituencies, we may just as well leave the "I" out of it.
America, meet the shark.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by AyaK on 05-27-10 at 08:37 PM

America, meet the shark.
Sorry to go political here, but those of us who thought Obama was the second coming of Jimmy "the Twerp" Carter feel vindicated as Obama shrugs his way from blunder to bigger blunder. I had voted for Carter but became a Republican three years into his term because I was so unsure that America could survive four more years of him. Obama has managed to recapture that pervasive sense of national malaise in less than two years.
He must try harder. Or care less. The choice is yours.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by Estee on 05-27-10 at 09:06 PM

Can we please leave partisanship out of this forum and concentrate on the single most important issue of the day? Ryan Seacrest isn't going to deport himself, y'know.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by cahaya on 05-27-10 at 10:23 PM

No kidding. Jimmy ain' Jimi.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by cahaya on 05-26-10 at 11:50 PM

Ah, hah.
What you're really sayin' is it's the past of American Idol.

Ragtop Ride by foonermints
Probably true, although it comes down to the collapse of the (front row) wave function.
Fix? It's already fixed.

"Actual change #1"
Posted by Estee on 05-27-10 at 06:53 PM

In addition to the normal city tour, auditions will also be conducted via MySpace.
http://www.thewrap.com/ind-column/american-idol-auditions-coming-myspace-17800
I said change. I didn't say improvement.

"RE: The Future of American Idol"
Posted by samboohoo on 05-28-10 at 08:59 AM

I didn't watch much of last year because of Kara. I didn't watch any of this year because of Kara. I also cannot tolerate the results shows anymore. Any of them.

Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie

"Actual change #2 & a ratings note."
Posted by Estee on 05-28-10 at 11:42 AM

In the 'later stages' of the competition, contestants will be given a total of thirty extra minutes singing time, presumably per episode. There's no way to tell whether that means extra songs or the oft-demanded 'So they're finally going to sing the whole thing?', but there will be more singing. Not necessarily good singing...
Also, the numbers are in: this was the second least-watched finale in the series history -- the worst numbers since the original. Admittedly, they still drew 24.2 million people -- but they had 28.8 last year. Total audience loss across the season was about nine percent: fall from the absolute peak year for the finale was closer to eighteen.
Looks like they need to cast more bland white rockers.