Those of you that visit Veruca Salt's editing thread in Spoilers know that I tend to over-analyze this show but I can't help it: Sometimes, interesting details are revealed. I think one of them was shown during the last TC:

Alexis mentioned that you needed 3 qualities to win this game. You had to be good socially, physically and mentally.

Right after, Eliza said: "You've all lost because you brought a stronger player to the end." When she said that, the camera showed us three players in this order: Ozzy, James and Cirie.

Here's where it could get fun:
- Ozzy was beaten by Yul, one of the Strongest Social players. He was called "Mr UN" afterall.

- James was beaten by Todd, one of the strongest mental players.

- Cirie was beaten by... Aras or Terry? Without Terry's string of immunities, he gets voted out at F4 and Cirie probably wins. If so, we know Terry is one of the Strongest Physical players.

I think Burnett revealed that, in his view, the Social Game is primordial, followed by the Mental Game while the Physical one comes third.

Did anyone read his book to see if he did say that?
What quality do you think should come first?

• RE: Did Burnett reveal his Preferences?,iltarion, 03:14 AM, 04-12-08
  • RE: Did Burnett reveal his Preferences?,michel, 07:31 PM, 04-12-08
• RE: Did Burnett reveal his Preferences?,Aruba, 06:50 AM, 04-12-08
  • RE: Did Burnett reveal his Preferences?,garcor, 09:13 AM, 04-12-08
    • RE: Did Burnett reveal his Preferences?,michel, 07:38 PM, 04-12-08
      • RE: Did Burnett reveal his Preferences?,iltarion, 03:42 AM, 04-13-08
        • RE: Did Burnett reveal his Preferences?,garcor, 09:32 AM, 04-13-08
• RE: Did Burnett reveal his Preferences?,dabo, 02:29 AM, 04-14-08

Interesting. Though it is the stretch of all stretches. Eliza was talking about going to the Finals with the best. James never got anywhere close to the Finals, and Cirie and Ozzy didn't BRING anyone to the Finals as it wasn't their choice on who went. If we are going to read anything into that little piece of editing, I would say the more obvious read is that Ozzy, James and Cirie are the most readily accepted 3 that you DON'T want to bring with you to the Finals.
Did Todd play a mental game? I would say he mostly played a social game. The only mental game he showed was giving James the HI, which didn't work, and then the FTC, in which he was brilliant.
I would say Yul played a mostly mental game, though his social game was certainly good as well.
I would initially say that the social game is the most important thing, and certainly, the track record of those with good social games are much better than those with good physical games. Mental games? A plan is good. However, when a plan can be as simple as- anyone but me, can we really say that is a strong mental game? Mental game is probably 3rd. However, I think the more you analyze it, the more you realize that having all 3 is what makes the best Survivor, and it is possible that none of the 3 are more important than the others. You just want to have them all.
I have said this elsewhere, but even with those that won without ever winning a challenge, they all relied on strong tribes, capable of winning challenges and protecting them. Otherwise, they wouldn't have even made merge. So, maybe you can say it wasn't important that THEY could win challenges, but it dang well was important that their tribemates COULD.

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LAST EDITED ON 04-12-08 AT 07:40 PM (EST)

Actually, I typed a little too fast, a little too late. Eliza didn't talk about being brought to the finals just that they lost because they went up against the best.

So, although this could be a valid interpretation:

"Ozzy, James and Cirie are the most readily accepted 3 that you DON'T want to bring with you to the Finals."

I don't think that was the intent of the editors. Eliza was clearly speaking to those three and about the mistake they made back then.

Todd was presented as playing a mental game, his moves edited to appear to come straight out of Sun Tzu's "The Art of War".

I see Yul as more of a social player for two reasons:
1- After the mutiny, Yul told us that the only strategy left was to win challenges.
2- His winning move, getting Adam's vote by voting out Jonathan was more a diplomatic move than a strategic one because he had earlier said going with Jonathan to the end was good strategy.

But I do agree that you usually need a good dose of all three.

Hey Michel

Being one who over-analyzes almost EVERYTHING in life I can certainly relate. Going backwards it's easier to say that among the three disciplines (physical, social, and mental) I would rank mental last. The only winner of Survivor that comes to mind who might have had a better mental game than physical or social is probably Vecepia.

While the game is tribe vs. tribe, the physical aspect ranks first in my mind. Iltarion brings up a valid and factual point that being on a strong tribe was largely instrumental to an survivor's ultimate win. And even the seasons I would consider "whimpy" had tough physical team challenges.

Individually it all depends on the particular season. Case in point, last season (China) was clearly geared toward the social game with some of the lamest individual challenges we have seen since Guatemala. I do believe Burnett & Company reveal their preferences in this regard before every season based on the format and how the challenges are designed long before the castaways even step foot on the set.

If there is anything to your observation, Ozzy, James, and Cirie were shown after Eliza's statement because they would probably be the three you don't want to bring the the finals THIS season. Ozzy clearly because of his strength, James because of his likability, and Cirie would win purely by default. I would definitely not analyze that to mean the entire concept of Survivor...but for this subpar season it is a point well taken.

Don't think you can separate mental/social/physical. Especially not the first two. And physical can mean more than challenges - it can mean how well your body holds up with insufficient food, an improvised bed and all sorts of biting little creatures.

Well, Survivor has always separated Outwit, Outplay and Outlast and I generally consider that Outwit is the mental game, Outplay the physical one and Outlast the social aspect.

Certainly, making friends, (i.e. playing a good social game) can be part of the your strategy but it's hard to be a good social player for 39 days, 24 hours a day, if it is only strategy.

LAST EDITED ON 04-13-08 AT 03:59 AM (EST)

This might be exactly what you were referring to, michel, but it is not hard for some people. Some people are naturally duplicitous and some are naturally good at making friends. Some, though few, are naturally good at lying, and some are naturally good at manipulation. As both a used car salesman and a former actor (haha), Brian was used to selling sh*t and getting thanks as the line goes. Yul and Todd were both intellectuals, but they were also both naturally nice guys. Danni's combo of pageant looks and tomboy personality made it easy for her to make friends of men and women alike.
As Aruba always said, people can't help but to be who they are. Sometimes being what you are helps, and sometimes, many times, it does not.

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forgot to mention how Ozzy so often seems to figure out the best approach to a challenge. and the scattering of puzzles throughout otherwise physical challenges - that often require tribe members to work together well to win. think the term "emotional intelligence" can go a long way to predicting social success in survivor.

might help to rename the qualities needed: ability to coexist in small area with other players for extended periods; ability to persuade, influence, sometimes cooerce or threaten tribemates into doing what you want; ability to strategize (could be related to puzzle solving,logical thinking ability); athletic ability; toughness and strength of will, etc.

don't think producers try to favor specific players. think they might look at cast and try to create challenges this particular group can do well. (think there are more puzzles this season?) don't think producers could have predicted how well Ozzy performed at Cook Islands. there were other impressive looking athletic types: Adam, Nate, who were not so impressive in action.

As a matter of fact in his first book Burnett wondered how well America would accept a game where the old, weak, out of shape and just plain stupid and obnoxious people could gang up and beat out the other players.

I personally think everyone who shows up to play should have a chance of winning otherwise what's the point.