I was watching the premiere episode of Survivor Amazon on OLN and I realized what we are missing on Survivor now. The 1 and 1/2 hour premiere gave us 1 full hour of camp life which we have not gotten on any Survivor recently. You really got to know each person rather than just the couple MB decides to concentrate on these days. I watched this season when it was first on, but when you go back and watch it now it is with a different perspective. I really wish they would go back to that format for the initial episode. I think it would make the other episodes much better because he wouldn't be trying to introduce us to different people each week.

• RE: Survivor Amazon on OLN,iltarion, 03:34 AM, 01-12-06
• RE: Survivor Amazon on OLN,Pretty_Kitty, 12:43 PM, 01-12-06
  • RE: Survivor Amazon on OLN,iltarion, 04:04 AM, 01-13-06
    • She refused to lose???,michel, 08:35 AM, 01-13-06
      • RE: She refused to lose???,iltarion, 02:22 AM, 01-14-06
        • RE: She refused to lose???,michel, 04:25 PM, 01-14-06
          • RE: She refused to lose???,iltarion, 01:35 AM, 01-17-06
            • Rob's mistakes,michel, 08:14 AM, 01-17-06
              • RE: Rob's mistakes,iltarion, 04:05 AM, 01-18-06
                • RE: Rob's mistakes,michel, 09:22 AM, 01-18-06
                  • RE: Rob's mistakes,iltarion, 00:55 AM, 01-19-06
                  • RE: Rob's mistakes,iltarion, 05:45 AM, 01-19-06
                • RE: Rob's mistakes,Lisa0116, 03:16 PM, 01-24-06
                  • RE: Rob's mistakes,iltarion, 03:41 AM, 01-26-06
                    • RE: Rob's mistakes,CattyChat, 11:04 AM, 01-26-06
                      • RE: Rob's mistakes,iltarion, 02:53 AM, 01-27-06
• RE: Survivor Amazon on OLN,miracle1969mets, 06:18 PM, 01-13-06
• RE: Survivor Amazon on OLN,Puffy, 09:31 PM, 01-13-06
  • RE: Survivor Amazon on OLN,iltarion, 02:36 AM, 01-14-06

LAST EDITED ON 01-12-06 AT 03:47 AM (EST)

I agree. Good point. I also have realized a couple things in watching "Amazon" again.
1. This really is one of my favorite seasons. Dave, the rocket scientist, is definitely one of my favorite castaways of all-time. He was not into playing the game though. I think he was just there for the experience. He might be the most honest castaway of all time. I love how he told Jenna during their getaway that Rob talks about Heidi's breasts and they all talk about Jenna's butt. How up front is that?
2. Amazon might be the only season with humor too. I find it hilarious how determined the women are to win while all the guys keep talking about scoring with the women. It is a comical juxtaposition.
3. For all her irritating banter about being "pretty" and "having a good body," Heidi is not as hot as I remembered her. She does have a nice body if you like the skeletal type, but her face is average at best. And the BS about her having the IQ is completely meaningless, obviously. She is a conceited doorknob.
4. Jenna is really stuck up. My GOD!! Christie said Jenna didn't even speak to her the first 6 days they were out there. How pathetic is that??
5. Rob C is hilarious. What is he? The 24 year old virgin??
6. The women were damn lucky they got the early team shake up. Without Joanna, the men would have swept them.

I love watching these again
I still cant believe that Jenna won this season I find her revolting,her little lap dog Heinie too.
I love it when Jenna's sorority Jacket gets burned up and I still hate the "cute girls" for making Chrisits life miserable I was sooo rooting for her. Im just glad not everone there was as stuck up and close minded as the "cute gilrs" (vomit)

I also find Deena funny now where as before I just found her annoying

Yeah, the self-proclaimed "cute girls with better bodies" are pretty sickening. I find it interesting that it was Shawna and NOT Heidi or Jenna that was smart enough to bring Deena into their alliance. Deena was clearly the smartest player among the women. But she gets hers when she thought she could put Rob C in his place. Rob also puts Alex and Heidi in their place too.
It hit me more than the first time I watched the season how poorly the women treated Christie. They just didn't get it. Jenna said in tribal council that no one was purposefully trying to exclude Christie, which only proved that she didn't GET IT. Christie is deaf. You don't have to TRY to exclude her. She is auto excluded if you don't make the effort to INCLUDE her. It did not surprise me that the women made no extra effort for her, especially the young women. Young women are used to getting catered to and they don't think of anyone else. No surprise that the men were more thoughtful and made an effort to make Christie feel included.
I guess you have to remember that Jenna was a young model, and she acted like a young model. Regardless of how repugnant her personality was, she still pulled out strength from I don't know what source at the end, and pulled off the most improbable Survivor win in Survivor history. In my mind, she is the only female winner who did not ride coat tails or skate by UTR. She refused to lose, and simply beat the men who thought she was done.

LAST EDITED ON 01-13-06 AT 09:11 AM (EST)

Hi there! It's me again: Just had to comment on that "she refused to lose" comment. At F6, Christy's boot, Jenna had won immunity and Rob approches her to vote out the undecided Christy. Jenna and Heidi are hesitant in following Rob who had just turned againt them.
At TC, Jenna gives her immunity to Heidi. Watching the show, I originally thought it was a great strategic move that Jenna had made to reassure Heidi in voting along with Rob. I was completely wrong. She confessed in an interview later on that she was sure Rob was lying to them so they figured that since Heidi had greater physical abilities than Jenna, then Rob would have to vote Jenna out and be stuck with Heidi who had a chance at beating him!!!

SHE WAS GIVING UP!!

Only Rob's errors kept her in. He had Christy in his back pocket but turned on her. Then he doesn't realize that Matt isn't interested in winning immunity and being the bad guy who decides who goes home. Yes she won 3 immunities and I give her credit for that but she only competed against the weak Butch and Rob. (Gameplay = 3)

Her only strategy was to ride coattails (Alex) and when that crashed, she had no back-up plans and was ready to give up. (stategy = 1)
She was a spoiled brat who was so disliked no one thought she could win so no one bothered to boot her (social skills = 1)

She was comic relief in a drab cast that was very weak on strategy (I think the rocket scientist wasn't even as smart as Heidi!!). That and her looks were her only qualities but that's not enough so most people rate her very low as a winner.

LAST EDITED ON 01-14-06 AT 02:26 AM (EST)

Hey, so Jenna gave up when she thought her "evil stepsister" as Christy put it, or her Playboy cover-mate, Heidi, was getting the boot, or she tried to jump on a grenade for Heidi, but I was referring to after Heidi was booted. Jenna clearly could have said screw it- get me out of here. But instead, it was like Heidi getting booted energized Jenna. It is when someone's back is against the wall that you find out if they are quitters or winners. And when Jenna was backed into a corner, she became stronger than ever and more determined than ever to stick around. I didn't say she NEVER road coat tails or was UTR. What I said was that she didn't WIN because of those things. And she didn't. She won because of 3 immunities she won down the stretch. And Matt may have thrown the last one, but he definitely wanted to win that first one. And even if Jenna only beat Rob and Butch, still, did you really think Jenna would beat Rob and Butch at anything? other than a beauty pageant? And though Survivor fans don't like Jenna, because she comes off as the prissy pageant girl in the show, the jury clearly liked Jenna, and did anyone, other than Christy, ever say a bad word about Jenna at any time in the show? Through a tribal switch to the merge, Jenna got along with everyone and never was in danger of being voted out until the F5. So, actually, I think Jenna's social skills are better than you give her credit for. You can't judge someone's social skills off of their popularity among fans. You have to look at what the other castaways thought of them. And even Christy, the one person who criticized Jenna, voted for Jenna to win the million. Why? Because she was impressed with the comeback Jenna pulled off. As was everyone... as was I... Lastly about Jenna, as I have mentioned before, she was the only Survivor Winner on All-Stars who would have made the jury if her mother doesn't die. I think she had a chance to really do something in that season if she doesn't leave. No social skills? Come on...
Also, about my man, Dave, I don't care what some BS IQ test said, all you have to do is watch the show and listen to their comments to know that Dave was a super intelligent guy, (I mean, the guy was 24 and a rocket scientist already), and Heidi was a semi-intelligent blonde who thought she was a lot hotter and a lot smarter than she really is. Joanna says her, "This too shall pass" speech, "Beauty will fade with time, but only your virtue and character will last," which was right on the money, true as day, and Heidi says. "I'm not sure where that quote fit in with anything, except to pick on the fact that we are cute girls." Yeah, you definitely don't get it, Heidi, because you are a moron. Love how she calls her alliance the "little girls" versus the "bigger girls." There is another example of brilliance from Heidi. Of course there is Jenna's response to Joanna's speech- "Don't hate us because we have nice bodies (pathetic laugh). I mean, get over it." Another rocket scientist there, surely. I never said Jenna was smart, but at least she doesn't THINK she is. Just because Heidi was more into playing the game, and Dave was into just being honest and having a good time and seeing how far he went, doesn't mean Heidi was smarter. Don't give that airhead the credit.

Since Amazon happened some 3 years ago I don't want to get into a long argument but thought you'd enjoy reading the transcipt from Jenna and Heidi's conversation. Here's the link to Markopolo's insider transcipt:

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/cgi-bin/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=3864&forum=DCForumID2&archive=yes

Here's a short version:
Jenna (to Heidi): Mentally I can’t play this game anymore. I can’t go home a basket case. I need to separate myself away from this game. Here’s the thing, I will give my necklace to you. I don’t care. But if you win the next one, they’ll have to vote out someone, maybe Christy
H: One thing for sure. If it comes down to physical, I can beat Christy, Rob and Butch for sure. For sure. If it comes down to endurance I cannot beat Matt.
J: I want you to have it. We're sitting here fighting over the immunity necklace.
H: On one hand Rob is going to sh** his pants if I am the one to stay.
J: That's the thing. That’s so worth it. He’s scared of you.
H: I know but he shouldn’t be. It’s kind of funny though.
J: Right now for me. It's about taking him out, making his life more miserable. You're physically more adept than I am. I don't do that. My job is to be a swimsuit model. The fact is, he wants you out because he is scared of you.

I appreciate your argument about finding strength once your back is against the wall, but she did nothing before F5. How come you criticize Chris and Danni for looking at the numbers and thinking they are going home and be so much a Jenna fan?

More Importantly, how do you know that no one else but Christy said a bad word about Jenna? They spend 39 days, we got to see about 13 hours.
It's called EDITING. EPMB knew he had a hard sell in making his winner likeable, he wasn't going to show anymore bad things about Jenna than he had to. She was still acting as a teenager with an attitude.

As far as Dave is concerned, you should see sarcasm in my comparison to Heidi not credit to her. Smart you say? Maybe with numbers but I would like to ask him is own TC question:

"Dave, which great leader did you use to pattern your game?"
Dave:"Julius Ceasar: Veni, Vidi, Arrivederci, I came, I saw and I left. Or maybe the one who said: Divide and Reunite, I separated Jenna and Heidi but didn't vote them out".

LAST EDITED ON 01-17-06 AT 01:37 AM (EST)

Haha... "Julius Ceasar: Veni, Vidi, Arrivederci, I came, I saw and I left." That is great. That was the strategy for countless castaways, I believe. Yeah, Dave wasn't a rocket scientist when it comes to game strategy. He said he wanted to vote out Jeanne because she was the next person the women were going to vote out. Well, how does that make any sense? Wouldn't that then make Jeanne the woman most likely willing to break ranks with the women and be loyal to him? I think Dave just thought the men would stick together, like Roger thought, and as long as it was a woman that was being voted off, it didn't matter. Obviously, Dave and Heidi kinda developed a relationship in the last 2 weeks before his boot; so that was probably another reason why he included her in his alliance- he just liked her. Guys will do that with women. Even allegedly cut-throat guys like Rob C and Rob M did that. I think Dave hoped to win like Ethan and any grand deception was just beyond his character. As soon as his alliance was turned on, he was done.
I give Jenna credit because she didn't advance because of the decisions of another person like Rafe or Twila. She advanced because the men just couldn't get rid of her.
And Amazon is being played again right now. That is where this thread is coming from...

LAST EDITED ON 01-17-06 AT 12:20 PM (EST)

Glad to have made you laugh because if this isn't for fun then it's meaningless.
Jenna did advance because of Rob's miscalculations. Once he decided to break the F4 with A/J/H , he wanted to go F2 with Matt. Then Matt gives away his family visit so that everyone could have theirs. Rob judged that Matt had secured jury votes and considered going against Jenna. That is why he boots the hesitant Christy instead of Jenna. Then it's too late because at F5 he still has both Jenna and Heidi and he was more afraid of Heidi. He probably would've beaten Matt in F2.
I found Jenna on the show to be entertaining, we could laugh at her and she didn't take it seriously. She's still good for some chuckles on "Survivor Live" but besides winning 2 immunities, does she merit the title of sole survivor? There was a RC where contestants were asked questions about each other and one was "Which player couldn't survive if left alone?" Guess who received the most votes!

LAST EDITED ON 01-18-06 AT 04:09 AM (EST)

I don't think the actual ability to survive has anything to do with the game. I don't think Ethan, Chris, Vecepia, Sandra, Amber, Danni, or Jenna could last a week on an island alone. I am not sure Brian or Tina could either, but Brian is so damn smart and Tina so tough, that I would at least give them a chance to do it. I do think Richard and Tom could.
And Jenna won 4 immunities. If that doesn't support Aruba's contention that the challenges aren't always physical or athletic, I don't know what does.

LAST EDITED ON 01-18-06 AT 09:36 AM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 01-18-06 AT 09:36 AM (EST)

So since you let it pass, I guess you agree that it was Rob's mistakes that carried Jenna.
I know the question about real survival isn't proof, it was spoof! If they had been honest they would each have answered "I couldn't do it". Nevertheless, they had to base their answer on what they knew, so they figured Jenna would be worst off!

I hope mixing threads isn't as bad as mixing alcohols but I thought Jenna won 3 IC. F6 she gave to Heidi was shuffleboard, F4 was retrieving things blindfolded and F3 was the endurance that Matt gave away. Except for the last, those were vanilla challenges but that was the case with most that year since they tried men vs women for the first time and wanted to give the women a chance. (The fact remains that, especially lately, men have won about 3 out of 4 challenges. They must favor the stronger players.)I wrote 2 above because only the last 2 were meaningful.
So now you don't give Jenna much credit for her challenge wins as they were not so competitive according to you. Ready to change your Winners ranking?!!

ETA to note that you've helped me reach 300 posts and a new DAW level!!!

Sweet! Amazon is on tonight, which is awesome. No, Jenna won the F4 challenge against 3 men who planned on booting her straightforth. She still beat Rob C in the F3, even if Matt gave up. Rob offered her a deal for the F3 challenge, and she, a little swimsuit model, told him to shove it, essentially. So, no, I think Jenna deserves to be right where I put her.

LAST EDITED ON 01-19-06 AT 05:52 AM (EST)

This reply is after watching the 3 Amazon episodes tonight. Regarding Rob's mistakes, as you put them, he actually did everything perfectly except for not winning F3 or at least convincing Matt that he needed to win and bring Rob with him. Regardless, Matt was the ONLY person Rob could have beaten in the F3. Rob had backstabbed every man in the show, and therefore, his chances of beating anyone other than Matt were nil to none. So, the perfect F3 for him was with Matt and then the weakest person possible, which I would say he got in Jenna. So, he was in perfect position in the F3. He just should have talked to Matt before the F3 and convinced him that neither of them would beat Jenna in a vote, and therefore, one of them HAD to win the final immunity. That was his only mistake, and it cost him the mil.
Some other notes after watching the show tonight:
1. Once again, as I have said over and over, the first thing everyone said after the merge was "we need to vote out the strongest person." meaning Dave. Again, the "weak" players had nothing to fear. Not being able to win challenges and winning the game is not a special feat; it is being able to win challenges and STILL winning the game that is the feat.
2. Did Jenna call Deena a "fat pig?" Wow, she was pathetic. I wonder how Deena feels about that vote now?
3. Jenna won the 2nd immunity challenge after the merge, the popularity contest. So, yes, she won 4 IC.
4. If I have to watch Christie do the food challenge again, I think I am going to be sick. Of COURSE, Matt wins the food challenge. Big shocker there.
5. I LOVED it when Deena got booted, probably the best moment in Amazon until the last show. Yeah, Roger was a sexist, Deena, and guess what, so are you, Adios!
6. Awesome shot when Heidi says in TC that her two biggest assets to the tribe are her intelligence and her athletic ability and the camera shows Alex shaking his head. He clearly knew what her TWO biggest assets were.
7. Obviously editing leaves out a lot. Deena talks about voting out Alex, and Heidi and Jenna act like Deena kicked their mother. Where did this suddenly tight alliance with Alex come from? Heidi says, "My original alliance was with Jenna and Alex." What? She didn't get on the same tribe with Alex until the merge. Is this one of the those alliances formed on the boat thing?

>LAST EDITED ON 01-18-06
>AT 04:09 AM (EST)
>
>I don't think the actual ability
>to survive has anything to
>do with the game. I
>don't think Ethan, Chris, Vecepia,
>Sandra, Amber, Danni, or Jenna
>could last a week on
>an island alone. I am
>not sure Brian or Tina
>could either, but Brian is
>so damn smart and Tina
>so tough, that I would
>at least give them a
>chance to do it. I
>do think Richard and Tom
>could.
>And Jenna won 4 immunities. If
>that doesn't support Aruba's contention
>that the challenges aren't always
>physical or athletic, I don't
>know what does.

Maybe Danni couldn't, but I bet her runner up Steph could.....

In watching the later episodes of Amazon, I think people should give Matt more credit than they have. Before Alex's boot, he was the one who said they, meaning himself, Butch and Christie, needed to just get Rob's vote to turn things around. And they DID get Rob's vote to turn things around; so regardless of whether that was more Rob's move or not, Matt still should get some credit. Actually, Matt should have won this season, frankly. Obviously he got no love for giving everyone a visit from their loved ones, and obviously being considered the "most honest" by the tribe is meaningless as well.

I agree Matt was not given enough credit. People wanted him out since the beginning & yet there he was at the end. The first time around, I thought Matteo deserved to win -- of course, I despised Jenna & Heidi, spoiled conceited brats, IMO. Girls like them further the stereotype that if you're considered cute, you are going to be a conceited snob who uses your looks to get what you want. Not to mention the blond bimbo stereotype. Aggravating.

Rob's biggest mistake was getting sucked into the manipulation by Jenna & Heidi -- crying defeated for sympathy turning to anger -- classic manipulation of the male species & Rob fell for it hook, line & sinker.

Last night's tribal council where Heidi stated that she was the mastermind of most of the plans left me rolling. What dimension is she living in? I have to say that Amazon would have been terrible without Rob's witty remarks. He really did steal the show.

Kind Creation of ARNutz