I'm not much of a Steph fan, but I thought she played the game well. It took her too long to realize, "Hey, by climbing over everyone to get to the top, I create a hostile jury", and that cost her the game. If she would have figured that out earlier, or done a better job of pointing the finger at Rafe (the real leader of the Axis of Evil), she would have had a shot at winning it all.

For those who made jokes about StephVivor, yes, Steph did get a lot of air time. But she was a colorful character with a large fan base from last season. Would you really want to see more of Judd or Jamie? Despite my overall ambivalence towards Steph, I would not have been disappointed if she would've won.

LAST EDITED ON 12-13-05 AT 09:42 AM (EST)

Steph should've won. I was shocked that she only got one vote. I thought others would see beyond her being a past Survivor, being betrayed and notice how she played the game. The emotional part of the game is really strange.

Here's why I think she was the best player. First off she outplayed, outwitted and outlasted all the others. Sure she lied some and broke some alliances. Even Danni did that. I just think that others shoudl've noticed that although she betrayed alliances she was not the person whoever proposed the ousters. She took the temperature of others in the game and went with the numbers and the route that would take her further in the game. Judd blasted her for lying to his wife and Steph was right she never lied to his wife....I honestly believe that at that moment that was truly how she felt.

Steph used her 'star' power as an advantage and played it perfectly. Like she said she didn't expected to make it past the first day, but she managed to turn it into a final two appearance. Just by getting Rafe to feel sorry for her and to offer his 'alliance' with Danni to go away was a perfect example of how she got into everyone's heads.

Steph was a great player and deserved to win. I understand the emotional aspect but for only Rafe to see that Steph was a better player than Danni was just too bad. Funny thing is I am not sure if Rafe made his decision on gameplay or emotion also.

I wish that in the finale, that Probst would ask each player why they voted the way they did. Sure would beat the heck out of hearing pointless questions to players like Morgan, Brooke or Brianna.

Max, I agree with you. Stephanie was not articulate enough to defend some of her decisions. Early on, she stabbed Gary who had gone to bat for her and kept her in. Others would have gotten rid of him, and he grew to dislike her intensely (a vote gone). Meanwhile, Dani could give him a vote quietly.

Huge mistake number two: She didn't explain to Judd that others convinced her that he was a liar. I think she should have told him about the plan, although that may have put a big target on her back by Rafe.

She definitely forgot about the jury. Her decision to mortally wound and blindside Judd was a fatal one. (Bobby Jon can't stand major back stabbers and those who break their word, so no vote there). She promised Jamie she wouldn't vote for him. (No vote there as Dani quietly waited in the background being nice and sweet, and never breaking her word for the most part, and telling some "I don't know how I'll vote").

Then after being rewarded so many times by others with food, what seemed like over and over, she had a selfish attitude (at least as edited by the producers). Example: I would keep the car . . . and so on, and ate like a pig saying she was starving all the time.

Then she stabbed Cindy who had just provided her with a feast after she won the car. She needed to tell her she didn't know how she would vote, playing a card out of Dani's deck.

The final stupid decision . . .keeping Dani over Lydia (another vote). Lydia was an ally throughout the game as an informant. That's 3 votes right there. Being nice wouldn't have given the game to Lydia, if Steph had been "nice" as well (Steph lost votes from Judd, Cindy, Lydia, Gary, Jamie, Bobby-Jon). And yes, Cindy was a greater threat, but informing those who were going to be axed would have saved her in the end. She so blew it when Judd gave her the boyfriend reward and then insinuated to his wife that she was with him until the end.

Indeed Rafe controlled the game and orchestrated the demise of Judd, Jamie, and Cindy, as well as Lydia. Steph didn't show the jury that fact. Note: Rafe's final dumb move was handing Dani control at the end. Dani meanwhile was the stealth bomber and encouraged others to get rid of strong players and kept saying she couldn't really win challenges and was less of a threat.

Dani was able to be sweet and caring while Steph helped lop off the heads of others who became her enemies. She basically, even though part of me wanted her to win, was not as intelligent as Dani or Rafe, and she failed to see Dani and Rafe's manipulations, and in the end they played her.

I agree with you about Steph's mistakes. The only one problem is that I don't think Judd would have listened to Steph saying that she was convinced by others that he was lying since she knew first hand that he lied about the clue to the hidden immunity idol and also because he would have felt that it shouldn't have mattered to her that he lied to others since he proved greatly to Steph that he was very loyal to her and only her and I think that showed, after all she was the only one he didn't lie to about the clue. I also think that Steph messed up big not only when she allowed Rafe to control her vote on getting Lydia out in the end but also her treatment towards Lydia was rather appalling in my opinion.

It is easy to be monday morning Qb. Really the fact of the matter is there was not a lot she could do.

If i was her I would've gotten a vote from Bobby Jon in negotiating the jury spot for him.

As far as voting out Lydia instead of Danni. How was that going to happen?????? Rafe had already made an agreement with Danni....he wouldn't go back on it and if Steph would've gotten Lydia to vote for Danni with her. It would've forced a tie. What does that do....considering Danni and Rafe could've then negiotated with Lydia to vote out Steph in return. It was too much of a risk and at that point why risk it.

The problem here is many viewed Steph has the leader. But what is Steph to do? If she says Rafe was pulling the shots Steph would've been viewed as riding Rafe's coattails to the finals and that would've done her even worse. She went with the strategy that she was outplayed, outwitted and outlasted everyone....and positioned herself as a strong player......a stronger player than Danni. She hoped others would get past there emotions and realize she was a better player than Danni. The jury would have nothing to do with that.

I can't say how much she played up the having a target on her back from the beginning angle, but she did mention it and that should've accounted for more votes. Bobby Jon should've realized that but the problem was Bobby Jon had a closer bond with Danni. in the end Steph might of lost votes because others didn't want to vote for someone playing the game a second time....who knows....they might of viewed playing the game a second time as an advantage not a disadvantage.

I knew Danni would win as soon as she won immunity. Too many on the jury felt betrayed by Stephanie and were upset with her. I don't think she "ran" the game as much as it appeared, but she definitely played a good game. Her getting to the final two was amazing. If I remember right Danni was the first one on episode one to be quoted as saying that they had to get rid of Stephanie as soon as possible. Looking back it is kind of funny it was her and Steph in the final two. I liked both Danni and Steph but I think if the money had actually gone to the better player, Steph would have won. Then again creating the jury is part of the game and that was where she messed up.

I LOVE Steph. I loved her on Palau and I loved her in Guatemala. She did deserve to win, but I knew they wouldn't give it to her-they all resented her not only because she made the final 2 (outwitting, outplaying, and outlasting them) but it was her second shot at it and they hated that. She was really good, because they didn't see it coming-none of them. I think the worst backstabber on the Jury was Booby Jon. He freely admitted that he wouldn't have gotten that far without her, but he wouldn't vote for her to get the money?? She made sure he got to his "ultimate dream" of making the Jury and yet, he wouldn't help her with her ultimate dream of winning the money. Danni wants to say she was a stealth bomber-no she just took advantage of Rafe. She really only outplayed one person. Rafe should have gotten rid of her-promise or not-instead of Lydia. Bone head!!!!

Steph out played them and they resented it, so they gave the million to someone who skated under the radar. Steph's only flaw in her plan was not bringing someone into the final 2 who everyone else hated.

Did Danni deserve the money, hell no, is she a nicer person than Steph, no, look what she did to the one person who got her into the final 2, she back stabbed him. The only reason Danni won was that she was NOT in control.

Everyone helps someone get to where they are in the game, therefore it's pretty hard to "pay back" the ones who helped. Besides, couldn't Bobby Jon have considered Steph convincing others not to vote him out right off so he could be on the jury as a pay back favor for teaching Steph how to make a fire in Palau which benefited Steph since she got to continue the game and Bobby Jon had to leave?

I think Steph played an EXCELLENT game designed to get to F2. What she didn't do, unfortunately, was play with the end game in mind. She actually even alluded to the fact that she knew she lost Judd and Jamie's votes when they were booting Cindy.

But she played hard to get to the end, and I think she deserves kudos. And she also said in the finale that in Pulau she was the "sweetheart" and in Guatamala she was the "leader", and when all is said and done she is actually both.

>And she also said in
>the finale that in Pulau
>she was the "sweetheart" and
>in Guatamala she was the
>"leader", and when all is
>said and done she is
>actually both.

I loved when she said this... People have complained that she changed, but what really changed was her situation. And she stepped up to the situation. She made the most of her second chance, which Bobby Jon, and many of the All-Stars that season, did not do.

>
>I loved when she said this...
>People have complained that she
>changed, but what really changed
>was her situation. And
>she stepped up to the
>situation. She made the
>most of her second chance,
>which Bobby Jon, and many
>of the All-Stars that season,
>did not do.
>

WHOA! While I agree that Steph made the most of her second chance. I would not say that Bobby Jon and the All-Stars did not. Bobby Jon played the game twice and both times his tribe was on the short numbers wise heading into the merge. As for the All-Stars.....18 people and there is only one winner. Hard to make comparisons to either situation.

Actually, I said MANY of the all-stars, not all of them, and I think that's true. Without including Jenna (who obviously couldn't have done better than she did before) and Susan who both left the game, I wouldn't say people like Alicia or Jerri did much with their second chances. Obviously, some did and did well with that, like Rupert, Jenna, Rob and Amber. Some did try, like Shii Ann, Kathy and Lex, and just failed at it.

As for Bobby Jon, yes, he was in the same situation twice. Shouldn't that have been a recipe for trying something new, like strategizing? He did nothing different the second time.

I owe Steph some kind words.

I'll get this out of the way, I didn't like her end game.

However, I thought that she played the game almost as well as she could if you ignore jury implications. She had multiple targets on her back. She was a perceived physical threat, she was on the show for the second time, a lot of people were jealous of what she got, and she still made Final 2, an impressive feat. I though that she played a safe and aggressive game, albeit not the way I wanted her to, and she was able to win 100k and that's a good payday.

Kudos to Steph for outlasting 16 other Survivors.

I don't have any kind words towards Steph and her personality, so i will save my bashing for another thread.

That said however, i comment her for staying in the game this long. You can say all you want about her as a person (and i will), but her gameplan and strategy were excellent. Well, maybe not excellent, but really good - good enough for a second place. She played a role of Keith, Fairplay, Katie - people who were dragged to the end becasue they pissed everyone else perfectly.

Of course, it is very hard to compare Katie and Steph. At least Steph lead the way and made a lot of decisions on her own. Katie was just a useless ballast...

I actually liked Danni all through the show, but Steph clearly deserved to win. Winning the final immunity challenge was the ONLY thing Danni did to deserve anything. She would not have made the final 6 if it wasn't for Rafe and Stephanie, let alone getting to the final 3. Rafe and Stephanie were clearly the strongest players. Danni winning was the exact same scenario as Chris winning two series ago. All the women were mad at Twila for breaking their alliance; so they voted for Chris even though he wouldn't have made the final 6 without Twila and Scout making the moves they did. Exact same situation. Jamie, Judd, and Cindy were mad at Steph for voting them out; so they vote for Danni?? What did SHE do to deserve to win? Steph did do a bad job of explaining herself in the final tribal council though. She doesn't express herself very well, and that cost her.

Hi, and welcome to the boards! I agree with what you said about Danni, but I'm not sure about the comparison to Chris. I think he did a lot more strategizing to get the women's alliance to self-destruct than Danni did against the Axil of Evil. He came off to me as a master manipulator.

I started to think after the episode before the finale that Stephenie was going to somehow pull out a surprise win against Rafe. I was so disappointed and mad when she lost in a 6 to 1 vote. She's been my favorite survivor ever since Palau.

I think Stephenie's real problem Guatemala wasn't so much that she backstabbed too many people, but that there was no easy beat that was on her side. The only person she could have beaten I think was Jamie, and Jamie admited in postshow interviews to planning on vote out Stephenie soon before he lost (so she made the right decision to last longer in the game by getting rid of him). Jamie knew he couldn't win, so he wanted Lydia or Judd to win (and was gonna use Cindy in a F4 alliance). I disagree with people who say that Stephenie could have beaten Judd, the only person who made it to the jury phase that didn't like Judd was Rafe, even Cindy seemed to be close to him by the F7.

Stephenie proved how that she's one of the best players ever by doing the unthinkable in Guatemala and making it to the F2. She was the Boston Rob of this season. I think when it comes to her personality she's right, she's still the same person she was in Palau while in Guatemala. It's the editing that's different, this time they chose to show more of her bad sides/moments (some of which they had to show to explain why she lost).

Good analysis of Steph. Though I think calling her the "Boston Rob" of Guatemala is saying a little much. Rob M had to do a lot more as far as making and breaking alliances; plus, he was doing it against All-Stars, AND he dominated the challenges. I think if he would have won, which he should have, it would have been the best "Survivor" performance of all-time. Since he didn't win, and because he made one tactical mistake by making an alliance with Alicia, which I think cost him the win, I still think Brian was clearly the best "Survivor" winner.
But, regardless, Steph and Rafe were clearly the manipulators of this series, and one of them should have won.
Chris was a "master manipulator"? I don't remember him doing much of anything once it came down to the women being in control. In fact, he told his wife he was going home, remember? Right before Twila and Scout made the alliance that changed the game. He "rode" their alliance to the final 2, much the same as Danni did in this series. He and Danni both won the final immunity; otherwise, they would not have made the final 2. Plus, Chris violated the #1 rule of "Survivor," which is- Never vote out your strongest members before the merge. Because he aligned with the older guys, who then proceded to vote out all the younger guys, the women won the key challenges and ended up with control of the game.

LAST EDITED ON 12-20-05 AT 11:48 AM (EST)

Just wanted to respond to that-

The number one rule of Survivor is and always will be-SPLIT THE PAIR. This is why no one in the All-Stars series should ever be able to lift their sorry heads again!!!!

By they way-Steph should have won on gamesmanship, but Danni wins for splitting the pair!!

Splitting the pair is not important until you get into the Final 5; so maybe it is Rule 4 or 5. Danni never split the pair. She won the immunity that left her with no choice. It isn't like she did anything strategically to split them.

She DID split them-just by winning the immunity. I would split the pair as soon as possible. If there are alliances, they usually involve MORE than 2 people, but if there are 2 doniminant players in that alliance, then I would STILL split them ASAP. As I recall, she did manage to break up the first pair-Judd and Steph. And he was BEFORE the final 5. Just my opinion.

It was Rafe and Steph's call to break up their alliance with Judd, not Danni's. Obviously, Danni was going to vote for anyone that wasn't her that they told her to. Everyone seems to want to give credit to Danni for decisions Steph and Rafe made, when Steph and Rafe were just trying to bring the two weakest players to the Final 4 with them. I guess that is what a winning smile will do for you...

Did you miss the part where Danni and Rafe were talking at the old Xaxha while Steph and her BF were camping at the ruins (with Judd and his wife and Cindy and her sister)?? I'm pretty sure that it was Danni's idea and she went to Rafe and they were talking about catching him in a lie so Steph would go along and vote him out.

Danni was using Rafe to get Steph to go along with her plan to get rid of the Judd and others. Have to give Danni some credit for that, because it all worked in her favor.

No, I didn't miss that part, but everyone has lots to say. Didn't Gary talk to nearly everyone on the tribe, coming up with plans on who should be voted out? Did it do him any good? No. He was a threat so he got the boot. Danni did lots of talking. Cindy said alot about Danni being stronger than her. Did that do her any good? No. She was a bigger threat so she got booted. Danni could say whatever she wanted. The bottom-line is that Rafe and Steph saw Judd and Cindy as bigger threats than Danni or Lydia. Rafe wanted to bring the weakest 2 into his F4 with him and Steph. In my opinion, THAT was the bottomline. It didn't have anything to do with Danni catching Judd in a lie or anything else. Is it coincidence that Lydia and Danni were the last ones left with Rafe and Steph? What did Lydia do or say to convince them to bring her along? Nothing. They wanted the weaker players. Judd admitted to lying when they voted out Gary. So was it necessary for Danni to catch Judd in a lie? I don't see how.

It was necessary for Danni and Rafe to make Steph THINK that Judd had told HER a lie. Steph and Judd were the pair that Rafe and Danni were trying to break up. Rafe knew that unless he got rid of Judd there was no way he and Steph would end up final two-which WAS his plan. He was planning Steph and himself as final two and Judd stood between them (do you really think Rafe didn't know that Steph and Judd were aiming for each other as final 2???) It was Steph's plan to take Judd, it was Rafe's plan to take Steph. It was Danni's plan to just try to get there.

For those of you who are Steph fans..her new website is now up and going.....check it out..http://prevailingsolutions.com/StephHomePage.html

Cool site...CGipper

Taking Judd to the F2 would have made no sense for Steph. So, regardless of how she made the decision, booting him was the right thing to do. You make it sound like Steph was a pawn. That may or may not be true, but I thought this was a thread of people who LIKE Steph?? Hahahahahah... Steph's problem was that she should have blamed the boot of Jamie and Judd and Cindy and Lydia on Rafe in final tribal. Afterall, it was Rafe's idea to vote out Jamie in the first place, which was the initial break of their alliance. It was also Rafe who first wanted Judd gone and then Lydia; so actually, Steph had a good defense for everyone but Cindy. She just didn't use it!

Actually, Steph had talked about wanting Jamie out the week he won immunity, then Rafe started to talk her into actually putting it into action, he basically let her know that others in the alliances supported that idea and further convienced her that it was necessary because he was too much of a loose cannon. The point is Steph did want him gone, but kept him due to his winning immunity and having doubts about getting rid of someone in their alliance, Rafe basically helped her feel "good" about it.

As for the Judd situation.....Steph did say that she was completely honest with Judd's wife about the two of them going to the final two and that it wasn't until the events that took place after that made her change her mind. The reason for Steph changing her mind had alot to do with Rafe and Danni who both convinced her that he was a threat to her, even though I don't think he was and in fact I think that he was really talking about Rafe to Lydia and Danni turned it around that he was talking about Steph. Yes, Rafe wanted Judd out but Rafe also told Danni that they had to come up with something good to convince Steph otherwise she wasn't going to agree with it, so in my opinion the credit should go to both Danni and Rafe.

I disagree with you about Chris not being a master manipulator. Yes, Chris did tell his wife that he was going home because he thought it to be true, but so what it's not exactly a situation where anyone feels 100% secure. Chris had been talking to Twila and Scout about getting them to let him in on their alliance because he knew that they were on the outside of the woman alliance and his reasoning to them worked.

Not only did Chris work on Twila and Scout but he also worked on Julie who then spoke up for him when the other woman wanted to vote him out and eventually he even got the confidence of Eliza.

Lastly, maybe it wasn't to the men's advantage in general to vote out their strongest players therefore losing immunities and having lower numbers in the merge but it did benefit one of the men and that's how most strategies and alliances work. Had Chris wanted to keep the younger stronger guys around not only would they have had to work against the woman but the younger guys as well, having them gone made it easier especially being that he had to go up against woman who's alliances are easy to screw with since many woman are very catty.

In all I think that Chris deserves the title of master manipulator in his season. As for someone else's comment about Boston Rob being a great Survivor, I agree, I wish that he would have won, after all he deserved it 100 times over Amber who basically just went for the ride, too bad the jury couldn't put their emotions to the side for two seconds.

Chris is gone if LeeAnn doesn't convince Amy to vote out Eliza instead of Chris. That was one of the all-time stupid moves. Amy had just fought with Scout and Twila and told both of them point blank that she didn't trust them anymore, all because they were allegedly talking to Chris about breaking the women's alliance. Then, immediately after that, instead of voting out the guy Twila and Scout were trying to recruit, Amy agrees to give them more ammunition by voting out Eliza. Now Scout and Twila had four people for an alliance, and the rest is history. I still give Twila ALL the credit for having the guts to break with the women. She had to know the women would hate her guts for it. And Eliza could have easily gone to Amy or LeeAnn with the info and had Twila voted off. Chris thought he was going home because he had no idea Twila was going to ask him to join them and break the women's alliance. It was Twila's idea, and she deserves the credit. Chris won the two immunities he needed to get into the F2 and foil Twila's plan to bring Scout, which is what she really needed to do. Chris deserves credit for that and not much else. You never vote out your strongest team members before the merge. That is the first rule of Survivor. It almost always leads to that tribe's destruction in the end. Lucky for Chris, he was the only one to avoid the swath.
Rob M would be the greatest winner of all time if he had won. He completely dominated people who had already played strategy-wise and challenge-wise. You are exactly right in saying people should have put their emotions aside for the vote. Props to Kathy for doing that and voting for Rob. Too bad Lex wasn't as mature as her. Mister vote out his buddy Ethan first chance he got was too upset at Rob for deceiving him. What a hypocrite. Rob did make one strategic mistake though. He made a vow with Alicia to never write her name down, which was completely unnecessary. He never needed her alliance. Since he broke his vow, she voted for Amber. A strong woman like Alicia would have NEVER voted for a coat tail rider like Amber, if it wasn't for Rob broken promise. Her vote would have swung it to him.