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Original Message
"Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by shakes the clown on 07-28-06 at 12:03 PM
I figured this thread goes here since it is bound to contain info off the feeds....


Going into BB there was no doubt who the greatest BB contestant of all time was....Will. It wasn't even a close competition. It can not even be argued that there is anyone even within the same ballpark as Will. In fact, it is also almost a fact that Will is the greatest contestant in the history of ALL reality tv. On strategy alone he wins that honor for his brilliant, totally original play in BB2. But, when you combine strategy plus his ability to entertain viewers, Will is so much in his own class that there isn't even a point to the discussion.

Which brings us to All-stars. And as unbelievable as it seemed prior to the show, Will is playing an even better game than he did during BB2! Here is a guy who walked into the house with the biggest target ever on a reality show contestant, or at least the biggest target since the cast of Survivor went on The Weakest Link and everyone decided pre-show to get rid of Rich Hatch first. Not since that moment has a contestant ever had a bigger target on him on a reality show. You can't argue Survivor Allstars because there were a handfull of people that had equally huge targets on them (Rich, Rob C, Tina). Additionally, unlike Survivor Allstars, Will is eligible to be votged out EVERY week, not just the weeks his tribe loses the Immunity challenge.

So Will walks into the house with a huge target and immediately comes up with a brilliant plan to convince the dominant alliance that they should be targeting "floaters" instead of the second strongest alliance. Remember, the whole floater thing was Will's idea...you can look it up, that's a fact.

And on top of that, Will has gone ahead and used some of the same strategies he used in BB2, and despite everyone's knowledge of Will's abilities, they are all falling for it all over again.

HIs constant griping about wanting to leave? Absolutely brilliant! Its gotten to the point where the other contestants are keeping him around almost b/c they think they are punishing him.

The most amazing thing? Just like in BB2 Will has the whole house convinced that there is no way he can win the game. How amazing is it that these so-called Allstars are falling for this same line of crap he used in BB2 to make it to the end?

And even more amazing? Is that there are alot of viewers including many that post here that are stupid enough to also believe that Will has no chance...and that Will really wants to leave tghe house, and that Will isn't playing the game with EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE HE UTTERS.

Its time for people to come to terms with the fact that there are some people out there that are so brilliant that even when they spell out their plans for you in simple sentences, you are just not smart enough to figure it out, even with the roadmap in front of you. So, the natural instinct is to lash out at what we don't understand. To me, that explains this ridiculous Will bashing and persistent comments that Will can't win the game.

IMO, anyone who doesn't recognize that we are watching the greatest reality contestant in history putting on a show and even worse, doesnt' appreciate it....is just a moron.



So don't take the simple
fact that I think Shakes is godlike to mean that I think he isn't an ass. -Samiam 10/12/04

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 07-28-06 at 12:10 PM
Agree.

Oh how I wish you had been around with your PB&J pass earlier this week.


Sigs by Syren. Bouncie by IceCat. One and Only WeinerGuy.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by countrygirl_29 on 07-28-06 at 12:25 PM
Oh, I agree. I've always loved the "Evil Dr." and he is the reason I got hooked on this show way back in season 2. Will is the smartest one of them all and he is playing them like a fiddle. His strategy is working and they are all playing right into his hands. The more he says he wants to go, the more people are trying to keep him. It's actually a brilliant plan. It's usually harder for a person to see what is actually standing right in front of them. You can't convince me that Will wants to go home and I can't believe how anyone of them would fall for that. He is the Master and that's why he wants to win this thing, so he can rub it in their faces.

IMHO The one person he needs to worry about though is Kaysar. Kaysar is always watching Will and analyzing everything he says. He's even made a few comments to the Dr. that he knows what he is trying to do. I think that James might be starting to see also, he just hasn't figured out what is actually going on yet and what to do about it.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by EvelynisObsessed on 07-28-06 at 12:26 PM
I haven't bought the 'I want to leave' ploy for a second. Will truly is an evil genius.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Savahnna on 07-28-06 at 12:29 PM
LAST EDITED ON 07-28-06 AT 12:30 PM (EST)

Alright....I'll totally give you that Will's a little smarter than the rest of them.......Well...actually a lot smarter than them....my stapler's a little smarter than the rest of 'em.

AND.....I'll give you that we're all pretty much suckers too...it took me a while to see he was using psychology on them and basement or not.....it worked...but I still believe the mentality of someone who would permit to doing BB a second let alone first time....is pretty low. I think he doesn't have much to outsmart.

But I have to say.....that as much as I don't like Will....I'm starting to dislike Kaysar more just on account of being so stupid....how many times chances can you get and screw up. Kudos to him for being a trusting guy......but he'd have a nicer summer at home

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by ginger on 07-28-06 at 12:35 PM
He's great.

And if Janelle doesn't get him out this week, she's much less great.

BUT if she thinks about it and gets him booted out, he's great, but he's still out.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by JoshInSGV on 07-28-06 at 12:35 PM
I agree, as well. Personally, I don't like Will. His personality irritates me, plus he's aligned with that stupid little worm, commonly referred to as Mike Boogie. But, I do recognize that he's playing brilliantly. He keeps on skating by, in spite of the fact that he's everyone's biggest threat. Yet, none of them seem to see it. The SOV 4 are too busy taking out floaters. And, some of the floaters like Danielle and Diane seem too preoccupied in taking out the SOV4. At some point, someone needs to take a stand and take Will out of the game. I don't understand why these people keep giving Will a chance to strike. I think the houseguest are under the illusion that Will won't hurt them, but he can and he will. Just watch!
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Iam_Xtreme on 07-28-06 at 12:58 PM
I did not watch BB until last season so this is my first experience with Will. I do not care much for Will but I have to agree that so far he is playing the best game in the house.

I am a huge BB6 fan and I am disappointed that they do not seem to realize (with the exception of James - maybe)that Will is a huge threat and needs to be sent packing before he wins the game.


Signature Created By: tribephyl

"blasphemy"
Posted by shakes the clown on 07-28-06 at 01:13 PM
>I did not watch BB until
>last season so this is
>my first experience with Will.
> I do not care
>much for Will but I
>have to agree that so
>far he is playing the
>best game in the house.
>
>
>I am a huge BB6 fan
>and I am disappointed that
>they do not seem to
>realize (with the exception of
>James - maybe)that Will is
>a huge threat and needs
>to be sent packing before
>he wins the game.
>

what you said is basically the same as saying, "I don't like Jackie Robinson but I am a huge Barry Bonds fan, or Dontrell Willis fan, or Ozzie Smith fan. Without Jackie Robinson there would be no Bonds, Smith or Willis.

Same goes for BB. Without Will there is no doubt that there would've been no BB6. BB1 was a disaster. At the time it was a shock that they were even bringing the show back for a second season. There is no doubt that had the second season been just as dull as BB1 they would've discontinued the franchise. Will singlehandily carried BB2 and made it not only watchable, but pleasurable. Everyother single person in the cast of BB2 was a disgusting, boring human being. Will was the voice of reason, OUR person in the house, the person who, one by one, called the other losers out for what they were. And the entire viewership sat at home cheering for him and laughing along with him 3x a week.

Simply put, there is no excuse for disliking Will. None at all. In relation to the genre, he is a national treasure...and all you so-called reality tv fans need to treat him as such.

Show some respect, you are experiencing the rare pleasure of getting to watch greatness before your very eyes.

"RE: blasphemy"
Posted by Iam_Xtreme on 07-28-06 at 07:43 PM
We all have our opinions and mine is "I do not like Will." I gave him credit where it was due with respect to his game play.

If he continues to slide by every week and gets to the end then my vote would go to Will for the winner but that does not mean that I have to like him.


Signature Created By: tribephyl

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Snidget on 07-28-06 at 01:44 PM
I'll agree that everything out of his mouth is game play. I'll even give him respect for getting this far in the game as given his history that is a major accomplishment. I do want to see how things play out some more and how far he gets as that may get me all the way up to liking from the "meh, he's OK," stage he is in right now for me.

Now I didn't watch BB2, although I know he is a big reason it was popular and the show is still on the air and give him plenty of respect for all of that. I've just not been that entertained by him so far this season, nor do I really like him, yet. However so far in the house most of the hamsters have been kinda meh to me, even ones I've liked or hated before.

I may get there, but I'm not sure I will ever get to the totally worship him as a deity stage like shakes. He is so cute when he is in lvoe like this

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Elaine0 on 07-28-06 at 02:04 PM
Someone on another thread said a reason to keep Will was because everyone knows what he's up to, so they can always get rid of him later. Another reason to keep him is because he's good to sit next to at the end. But that's how he won BB2. How may times did they put off getting rid of him in BB2 and decided to saving him until the next week? How many people said he'd never win BB2 because he's evil?

Many, if not all, of these people have watched all the season. They saw him in action. But he is never the big target because he wants to leave anyway. I agree keeping him if you believe he wants to be out before sequester. Why waste a week on someone who will leave anyone? But why are they believing him to begin with?

I'm not convinced he'll win. There are still plenty of weeks to get rid of him. Danielle is playing a good game, but she has so many fires going that I wonder how long she can keep them under control. Someone from BB6 has a very good chance of winning. I would hate to see any of the others win.

I hope Boogie goes next because I want to see Will at his best without dragging that albatross around with him. By himself Will will be the sweetest person in the house who just wants to go home. That's when the fun begins.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by countrygirl_29 on 07-28-06 at 02:09 PM
Well put there, Elaine0. I couldn't agree more.
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by ginger on 07-28-06 at 03:40 PM
I watched Season 2. Since I watched Season 1, I have no IDEA why I watched Season 2, but Shakes is right in saying Will saved the series. He pretty much pissed people off and dared them to boot him. They either assumed he'd go soon and then vote off someone with whom they'd have a more immediate quarrel instead, or, as the game drew to a close, people started to think he'd be a good Number Two and kept him around for that.

I do think part of the reason why he won was because everyone hated Monica (I think her name was Monica), the woman who chose to take Will rather than her alliance partner, Hardy, to the final 2. (This is totally from memory so I might be wrong but I think that's how it went). Monica also didn't understand the respect for gameplay and the charm of Will that would sway the votes to his side instead.

Now I think people are thinking Will is so obvious a threat he's almost disarmed, but that is incredibly stoopid for any player who has studied tapes of the Season.

Will stands a great shot of winning, again, unless they wake up and stop it NOW.


"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by AugustGirl on 07-28-06 at 03:42 PM
Nicole was the woman in the final with Will. Monica was third. And yes, Will singlehandedly saved this series.

Will stands a great shot of winning, again, unless they wake up and stop it NOW.

Will owns these people. He's going to win.


a J Slice original. bounce by Icey.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Doctor my Eyes on 07-28-06 at 03:57 PM
Nicole and Will were put on ice for a while after 9/11 and they wouldn't tell them what happened. Nicole kept having meltdowns and Will (his doctor side coming out) seemed genuinely concerned for her mental health. I don't think that part was an act. Anyway Nicole made such a fool out of herself that no one would have voted for her. And Will, even in the face of the uncertainty about what had happened to stop the show, remained calm and in control of himself. How could you not love him after that?
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by iloverob on 07-31-06 at 04:20 PM
Wasn't Nicole's melt down because the internet viewers saw her rubbing on Will's stuff in the hottub and her husband heard about it and sent a banner saying something like the marriage was on shaky ground or something like that?
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Doctor my Eyes on 07-31-06 at 04:37 PM
That's right! I forgot about that.
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by frisky on 07-28-06 at 04:47 PM
About friggin' time you showed up. I've been wanting to post a yay-Will/boo-sloppy6 thread, but I have this fear of people throwing their shoes at me and tapping me on the nose with their rolled-up newspapers. It's much safer to piggy-back on a cat-hating clown.

Will is genius. The sleezin' 6 are idiots for falling for it, and they have fallen for it every week, since they have the power every week.

So there.


Rolly made this.
Desperate Housecats

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by michel on 07-28-06 at 05:09 PM
It certainly made me cringe when I heard Kaysar say, "I understand Will's game, I can beat Will's game!" The guy didn't read What's-her-name's intention last year and he thinks he can read Will!? Better be careful.

I didn't see BB2, started at BB6 but I heard and read about most of Will's legend (as I did Jackie Robinson's!) There is however a long way to go and as great as his "I want to go home" strategy is, he'll need a new one soon. He may have made a mistake with the last votes. A 9-0 decision or at least the animosity towards Jase must have been sensed in the House. He could've asked Boogie to vote for him. Risky move, but after the verdict Boogie could've said, "Sorry buddy, I tried to get you out." Now everyone knows he didn't "convince" his friend they should see it as proof he IS PLAYING.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by ARnutz on 07-28-06 at 07:34 PM
LAST EDITED ON 07-28-06 AT 07:36 PM (EST)

*sits next to Friskers & the Clownboy and nods in total agreement*

I have questioned the S6 peeps dumbass moves every.single.friggin.week! I was actually extremely unthrilled when Janelle won HOH last night. That just meant this week would be more of the same crap they've had for the entire season so far. It's been *yawn* boring!

I'm waiting for them to make another dumbass move again this week, like, say, booting Erika instead of Will or Mike. I can't believe they don't see right through Will's crap! Not that I like Will at all. He pretty much disgusts me. Booger's even worse, but Will is definitely playing them all like a fiddle!


Slice & Dice Sigpic Chop Shop 2005

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Iam_Xtreme on 07-28-06 at 07:45 PM
Not that I like Will at all. He pretty much disgusts me. Booger's even worse, but Will is definitely playing them all like a fiddle!

I have to agree with you so lets hope that BB6 wakes up this week and sends the right person home.


Signature Created By: tribephyl

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by ARnutz on 07-28-06 at 08:00 PM
Smarmy and arrogant are two words that come to mind!

I hope his brother was right with what he said about him last night, that he's a totally different person in real life and this is just his game play showing. If not, I'd hate to be his patient.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Bob Tomato on 07-28-06 at 08:16 PM
At last, Will is being recognized for the player he is. It must be easier to see outside the house than it, because the guys in it don't see it at all.

Somehow, Kaysar lets Will pick his nominees for him. Then James lets Will pick his nominees for him (one of whom is Will!). Who will Janelle pick? Don't look to Janelle for the answer, look to see who Will thinks should be picked.

Last night was a classic - Will is the most dangerous guy there, yet every single person votes out Jase. Somehow, they all became more afraid of Jase - JASE - than Will.

I snorted milk out my nose when Kaysar said 'I can beat Will at his game'. Nope. Maggie (who admittedly plays a more subtle and much more evil game than Will plays) took Kaysar out twice in three weeks. Kaysar does not even play in the same league as Will. Kaysar is around only until Will decides he should not be around.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by foonermints on 07-28-06 at 09:38 PM
>Will is so much in his own class that there isn't even a point to the discussion.<


"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by MakeItStop on 07-29-06 at 01:16 AM
Ah, isn't that cute ... Shakes has a hero. <snicker>

I'll agree that Will is smart and is playing a great game but why is he friends with Mike Boogie? That's just creepy!



So much for my idea of getting hugs at the end of this - Maggie BB6

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Bob Tomato on 07-29-06 at 01:47 AM
Boogie is a complete doofus. And Will knows this. Boogie is Will's safety net. When the others finally get around to doing something about Chilltown, they will take out Boogie first (as Exhibit A, I offer BB2).

Will is so scary, that no one will take a run at him because they are afraid that Will will come after them even BEYOND THE HOUSE. These morons are letting their fear of taking out the most dangerous player in the game keep them from taking out the most dangerous player in the game.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by DrKegel on 07-29-06 at 08:33 AM

Completely, absolutely agree with this. Will is a master of the game. Ever since I saw him giving himself a pep talk in the mirror, then saying, "I can do this," pretend to scrub his hands in the sink as if preparing for surgery, then hold up his hands waiting for the gloves and give a wink into the camera as if to say "The evil Dr. Will is In" - I was hooked.

And as for what you said, I almost feel you didn't go far enough, but then some facts haven't been confirmed yet. But as far as Boogie goes, can't help but believe Boogie is the "apparent" alliance that Will has. This gives the others a target to get rid of that will make Dr. Will seem alone and powerless. If this is true, it's yet another testament of gamesmanship. There have been secret alliances galore, but nobody has figured out to set someone up as a "fake open" alliance. And Boogie is the perfect person. He completely wants to be cool and would instantly clammor to be in Will's good graces. Also Boogie is a pig and obnoxious when drunk (which apparently is most of the time). As we all know, being obnoxious is a good way to get voted off first.

I must add though that Danielle is a close second. Remember the target she had on her back when she opened her mouth the first day? (Can't help thinking that was strategical to get rid of Allison - but it hasn't been confirmed) Where is that target now? She appears to be back in the role of confidante, manuevering into people's hearts and minds into asking them what they want and then trying her best to get it done. And if it doesn't work? Well, they remember good ole' Danielle tried.

Yes, the evil doctor is definitely In and I'm enjoying every second of him.


"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by kathliam on 07-29-06 at 11:32 AM
Must admit, I'm gingerly climbing on the bandwagon. I didn't see BB2 either, and only knew the Evil Dr. Will by reputation. For the first two weeks I was of the opinion he was highly overrated and the game had evolved past his ability to play.

However, even I have seen glimpses of his brilliance the last few days. He plays his cards so close to the vest. Boogie is his goat, that's for certain, but all his orchestrations are missing is a baton. Everyone TALKS about taking him down, but no one does.

Janie still has a chance to put him up against Erika, but I'm afraid her crush will blind her to his manipulation.

And, good to see you, Shakes.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by true on 07-29-06 at 01:00 PM
I never thought there was any doubt. My only wish for this season is that the vile excuse for a human being, Booger, goes before Will. Will did his best work when he was solo, and I'm afraid this season Booger will be his downfall. Now that Booger has won POV, I fear that Dr. Will may meet his end. If he manages to keep them both in the game this week, he will have pulled off, not only the best move in RTV history, but the second best move as well.

The fact that he made it past the first eviction either makes him (still) the most brilliant player ever, or the luckiest, considering his competition is a bunch of morons.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by kingfish on 07-29-06 at 07:01 PM
Yeah, he's good. Maybe the best.

I suspect though that hubris will be his undoing. It's just barely possible that Kayser is playing the better game, and maybe even James at this point.

Like Hatch. He's showing signs that he is beginning to believe his own publicity, and that because he is brilliant, then any ole thing he does will be brilliant. Might not be sufficiently self-critical.

Hatch was also pretty good, at least he caught on to 'how to win' before the others did. But he too got caught up in the belief that, as the Hatch, he was the best survivor ever, and that what ever he did would work. So he didn't bother to think about it, he just did whatever he wanted to do, spur of the moment. IMO.

Will is charming, has a presence, and can manipulate others. He has Mike Boogie fawning like a puppy dog at his heels. Even the smarter of BB7 hamsters may be getting caught up in his three card monty logic. But his speeches seem to me to be slightly erratic. More spontaneous "i am brilliant so I'll just spout out something outrageous and it will confuse the masses" than a part of a strategy.

So I am withholding judgement for now, lets just see how the current strategies playout.


"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 07-29-06 at 10:59 PM
GREAT player 5 years ago.
I'm not entirely convinced he's giving it 100% this time, but I totally applaud the way he's gotten other players set on keeping him if they can.

I'm also amazed at how when CG wasn't a challenge contender he was a floater, but when Will doesn't compete he's not a floater, he's CT.

I'd give Will more credit if he were confusing worthier opponents. These people manage to confuse themselves. Simply labeling these mostly inept players as All Stars has confused them terribly. I've never seen such a disoriented indecisive group.


"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Elaine0 on 07-31-06 at 11:15 AM
I am so torn this week. I really like Janelle and watching Will play her is painful. When he flashes that smile and she gets all giddy, I just shake my head. I want Will to get his way, which he probably will, but not at her expense.

Janelle takes the relationships seriously and wants to believe what people tell her. She wants to feel they like her. Nobody has attacked Janelle or her friends yet, so she isn't fired up for revenge like she was last year when Jen got rid of Kaysar.

Will could care less about relationships or if the others like him. He's concentrating on the game.


"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by JoshInSGV on 07-31-06 at 11:34 AM
But, I get the impression that Janelle is also trying to play Will. I think she probably has a crush on him or a sense of admiration for the way he played the game on his season. But, she's flirting with him so he can warm up to her. If Will and Janelle team up, it might become an unstoppable alliance. The Sovs are self destructing right now. So, it's essential that Janey forms her own alliance, outside of the Sovs. Everyone thought that James would be pulled into the dark side, and surprise! It's Janelle who may end up siding with ChillTown.
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Elaine0 on 07-31-06 at 12:09 PM
I do think Janelle wants to play Will and part of her flirting, at least at first, was to win him over. But I also think she got caught up in it and Will didn't.

Before this season started my dream pair was to have those two working together against the house. Maybe it will come true, but I have my doubts. I won't be surprised if next week Will says to Janelle "I'm sorry sweetie. I know I promised to protect you, but things have changed in the house."

"No"
Posted by AyaK on 08-14-06 at 04:57 PM
Will will save Janie to the best of his ability, because he knows that she's the one who has the best chance to take Dani out.
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Elaine0 on 07-31-06 at 11:35 AM
OK Shakes, he's a question for you.

On BB2 most people only thought of Will as an a-hole until after week 4 when Boogie left. I remember he talked a lot, but nobody listened to him outside of CT.

Now on week 3 Will and Shannon were both nominated. Shannon caused a lot of trouble that week and was voted out. Did Will convince Shannon to throw herself under the bus or did Shannon just want to leave? I remember it being decided that Shannon would purposely do things to take the heat off of Will and be the one evicted, but I don't remember why she went along with it.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by maryellennaco on 07-31-06 at 12:03 PM
If I remember correctly, Will was going to "win for both of them"... He even mentioned at the time that "We'll buy a little fixer-upper in Miami and live happily ever after" or something to that effect. I think Shannon went willingly (pardon the pun!)
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Elaine0 on 07-31-06 at 12:11 PM
You're right. They felt his chances of winning was better, so he was going to stick it out and win for them both. What a sweetheart.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by michel on 07-31-06 at 12:52 PM
I mentionned earlier Will would need another strategy after his "I want to go" ploy was uncovered. Did he find one? How about these four tactical moves:
-Booting Howie in HOH because he felt he could get a deal with Kaysar or Janelle. This is working at least for now.
-Proposing a deal to Howie in the food comp. Trust is more valuable than food. Now he can go after Howie without being accused of first strike.
-Telling Janelle to put him up and test the floaters to see if they trust her when she proposes them as pawns. Erika is already talking revenge. If she goes, the others are certainly on notice.
-Telling Janie of James and Kaysar's parachutes and offering her one. Brilliant!

When one combines tactical moves into a coherent goal then you have a strategy. Will is the only player that has one.


"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by iloverob on 07-31-06 at 04:30 PM
I think it would be soooo funny if he won again. Loved him before and I love him now. He is fun to watch! He's the one who is always trying to entertain the house/us. He is better without Boogie, but I have to admit that as much as I can't stand Boogie, I love those phone call skits they do in the Diary Room.

I believe that hg's may be looking at him as someone to take to the end figuring that no one will vote for him because he already won once. But to get him to the end with you, you have to purposely take him - it's not like he will try to win HOH - and that will turn off others.

If Will ends up at the end with ANYONE, he should win the whole thing - no question! And then he should become a permanent hg - put in the house every season until they finally figure out he has to go. Wonder how many seasons he'd be in.

"bump "
Posted by shakes the clown on 08-14-06 at 01:52 PM
Bumping for two reasons...one, to see if there is still any doubter out there and two, to point out how smart I am.
"RE: bump "
Posted by Wacko Jacko on 08-14-06 at 01:56 PM
Shakes you are so smart.
"RE: bump "
Posted by Poncho on 08-14-06 at 05:22 PM
I must admit that Will is the master of BB. I used to be a Janelle/Kaysar/Howie fan, but Will is just too good at this game and sooooooo funny!


Poncho

"RE: bump "
Posted by vince3 on 08-14-06 at 08:12 PM
1. I'M NOT WORTHY!!!! (bows)

2. This is insane. He's the only previous winner in the house, and yet he's not even considered a target anymore? *yeesh*

3. Add to that, the (mostly) consensus that Boogie won the Coup power, which almost guarantees them safe passage for 3 weeks without incident, and if the hamsters aren't told that there's a time limit on the Coup power, CT will hold it over every HoH as a "Sword of Damacles (sp?)", basically "nominate us at your own risk of getting evicted this week."

4. The only thing that can go wrong about it is if Boogie uses the Coup power, it might unite the house against CT. Granted, depending on the victim of the Coup's whammy, Boogie would probably be the first target, but if they figure out that Will was responsible (obviously) for that hit, it's possible that Will could be in trouble (but he'd probably talk himself out of it just like every other time......)


Because 3 Vinces are better than one.

"Shut up Shakes"
Posted by LadyT on 08-14-06 at 08:55 PM
We know you love your brother

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 08-14-06 at 06:57 PM
Is Will the best ever? Yeah, I'd say so, but not by much. Janelle is right on his heals as the greatest player evah. One might even say Janelle is the best for the simple fact that she tortures the hamsters way more than Will ever does. One is strategy driven, and one is competition driven. But this isn't about Jedi Janey, it's about Slick Willy.

The thing that separates Will from the rest of the hamsters is his ability to manipulate the information he's given. To say Will is a liar would be like saying the Mona Lisa is just a painting of woman. His lies are masterpieces, and with every stroke of his tongue he creates another work of art. It's really a thing of beauty watching the lie take shape and become something greater than it promised to be. But it also helps to be surrounded by idiots.

Will also captitalizes on everyone else's ambition. Everyone wants to get to the end and somehow Will has them all convinced that he's the one that can get them there. They all know he's a threat, but like the cobra in the cage, he's just not an immediate one. The figure as long as he's contained he can't do any harm. But little do they know his venom is poison to every ear that'll bend itself in his direction.


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"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by motormouth on 08-14-06 at 08:33 PM
Hey Cappy! Not only can I say agree very much with your post, but I also wanted to point out how much I've missed you. *smooch*

I have been in awe of Will's ability to play this game, since season 2. I have also decided that he will father my baby someday.



A PhoenixMons Original

Janey's a great player too, but based more on her competition skills, than strategy, I think.


"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 08-15-06 at 04:34 PM
I've missed you too mouth!!

*smooches*


Handcrafted by RollDdice, yo.
MySpace

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by bobstew617 on 08-14-06 at 08:45 PM
Is Will the best ever? Yeah, I'd say so, but not by much. Janelle is right on his heals as the greatest player evah.

I am a HUGE Janelle fan, but she can't even hold Will's boots. I do not like Will, and I never will, BUT he has all these people running around in circles (including Danielle). He is actually playing MUCH better than last time.

Janie is only still around BECAUSE she wins competitions. If she had any playing skill, CT would have been gone because she would not have listened to them from the beginning. Will and Boogie WANT her to win as many comps as possible so they can manipulate her.

Boogie is also playing the game differently from his season. He has learned to sit back and learn from Will. Now that he has the CDE (we think), he is in an even better position. I think the ONLY way he uses it is if him and Will are nominated, and the way things are going, that's not going to happen any time soon.

"DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. "
Posted by shakes the clown on 08-14-06 at 10:09 PM
Is Will the best ever?
>Yeah, I'd say so, but
>not by much. Janelle is
>right on his heals as
>the greatest player evah.

...are you out of your friggen mind? That is easily the dumbest, most retarded comment ever uttered on this board. Actually, the idiocy of that comment is not limited to this board, it is also probably the single dumbest comment ever said in the history of humankind.

Right on his heels???? Janelle isn't even in the same stratosphere as Will let alone the same league. And guess what? She isn't even in the same league as Danielle either. She isn't even one of the top 5 players of all time, let alone worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Will.

You must seriously be retarded to even think something like that, let alone say it.

But here is the crazy part...you go ahead and say somethign even dumber right afterwards....here it is...


One
>might even say Janelle is
>the best for the simple
>fact that she tortures the
>hamsters way more than Will
>ever does.


...tortures more than WIll????? HA HA HA HA HA!!! You're joking right? Did you even see BB2? Go ask Nicole what she thinks about that statement.


Seriously, if you have any sense of decency you will put yourself on a voluntary suspension from posting here for at least a week. Maybe then this will blow over and most people will forget how stupid you made yourself sound today.

"RE: DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. "
Posted by MakeItStop on 08-15-06 at 03:11 AM
LOL I know I really shouldn't encourage you Shakes, but I guess I'm sick because I do love a good skewering. But really, you can't call every dumb comment the DUMBEST.COMMENT.EVER.


So much for my idea of getting hugs at the end of this - Maggie BB6

"RE: DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. "
Posted by ginger on 08-15-06 at 11:46 AM
I gotta disagree with Shakes, too. It is all in the criteria. Some players are schemers (e.g., Michael from Love Cruise) and some are just gonzo challenge freaks (Terry from Survivor). If you think The Game is about scheming, obviously Will is the Best Evah. Playing angel's advocate, though, I have to say there is something to admire in the fact that Janelle does not lie and does NOT throw challenges - she excels in the physical and the mental ones and is, arguably, choosing the harder way to play.

Come to think of it, the only person I can think of in reality history who was really good at both "types" of play was Brian Highdick Pornstar from Survivor Whatever. Yet he never seems to come into anyone's posts about best reality players, perhaps because he was to many people so unlikeable.

Anyway, I lvoe Will, always have, but just because he plays the game the way I would does not mean his particular field of prowess is the only standard by which to judge performance.



And Shakes...are you bored? Between chased amublances? Not getting any lately? You seem in hyper muckrake mode these days...

"RE: DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. "
Posted by Captain_Savem on 08-15-06 at 11:44 AM
LAST EDITED ON 08-15-06 AT 11:46 AM (EST)

...are you out of your friggen mind? That is easily the dumbest, most retarded comment ever uttered on this board. Actually, the idiocy of that comment is not limited to this board, it is also probably the single dumbest comment ever said in the history of humankind.

Obviously you don't subscribe to the live feeds because if you did you realize how asinine that statement just was. But thanks clown, I think that's my very first "DUMBEST.COMMENT.EVER!!" from you. I think I'm starting to grow on you. Admit it, you like me.

Right on his heels???? Janelle isn't even in the same stratosphere as Will let alone the same league. And guess what? She isn't even in the same league as Danielle either. She isn't even one of the top 5 players of all time, let alone worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Will.

Not in the top 5 players of all time?! Let me give you a word of advice: Stop smoking crack. She finished in the final three last year and that was with half the house trying to take her out in week two. No other hamster as won more HoHs or PoVs than her. But don't take my word for it. Ask James.

...tortures more than WIll????? HA HA HA HA HA!!! You're joking right? Did you even see BB2? Go ask Nicole what she thinks about that statement.

One person? That's all you got? Well last season there was Ivette, April, Maggie, Beau, and Jennifer. And this season there is Alison, Diane, Erica, and Marcellas. Not.Even.Close.Bud.

Seriously, if you have any sense of decency you will put yourself on a voluntary suspension from posting here for at least a week. Maybe then this will blow over and most people will forget how stupid you made yourself sound today.

Nice try shakes. Do I look like I just signed up to this board yesterday? I stand by everything I just said 100%. The proof is there. I'm not saying Will isn't the best ever at this game, I'm just saying it's arguable, and it is. It appears as though Will has you drinking the same Kool-Aid he's serving up in the BB House. I thought you were smarter than that.


Handcrafted by RollDdice, yo.
MySpace

"RE: DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. "
Posted by shakes the clown on 08-15-06 at 01:17 PM
>Obviously you don't subscribe to the
>live feeds because if you
>did you realize how asinine
>that statement just was. But
>thanks clown, I think that's
>my very first "DUMBEST.COMMENT.EVER!!" from
>you. I think I'm starting
>to grow on you. Admit
>it, you like me.


...I stand by my statement regardless of what is being said on the livefeeds. But, that's nice that you look to mental wizards like Chicken George, Marcellus and Big Boy to rescue you from having said the dumbest comment ever.

And yes, I do like you, despite the retaded use of brown font (nailbone wannabe) in all your posts. But, just cause I like you doesn't mean you aren't eligible to called stupid.

>Not in the top 5 players
>of all time?! Let me
>give you a word of
>advice: Stop smoking crack. She
>finished in the final three
>last year and that was
>with half the house trying
>to take her out in
>week two. No other hamster
>as won more HoHs or
>PoVs than her. But don't
>take my word for it.
>Ask James.

...no, she is definitely not in the top 5 of all time. It takes a lot more than wining a few comps to be considered an all around great player. And on top of that, what has she really won? A veto comp this year that wasn't even a real competition. That was really impressive. An HOH that she only won on a re-do, after she was eliminiated legitimately the first time around and not by a buzzer malfunction.

You're talking about a girl that doesnt even know the saying "pull the wool over your eyes" for Christs sake! Winning competitions is such a small part of being good at BB compared to the mental, scheming part of the game. Especially when you take into account that you can't even compete in HOH's the week after you win. That puts even more importance on the non-comp part of the game.

Here are the top 5 players of all time...

1. Will (not even close)
2. Danielle (a clear choice at 2nd, screwed by bad production decision)
3-5. Too close to tell the order, but they are...

Drew (won the game, was able to play both sides of house

Maggie (won the game, kept her alliance loyal and brilliantly convinced other alliance to target its own

Nicole (was nominated and targeted week 1 but rallied whole house against Chill town and into a successful alliance before turning on her own. Was also hurt by production decisions)

Other players better than Janelle...


Allison (finished 2nd, won challenges, was targeted several times and even convinced idiot to veto her)

Jun (won the game, had successful secret alliances w/ mulitiple people including ex-boyfriend)

Jason (came in 3rd, brilliant secret alliance with Danielle...convinced Marci to commmit biggest error in reality tv history)


>One person? That's all you got?
>Well last season there was
>Ivette, April, Maggie, Beau, and
>Jennifer. And this season there
>is Alison, Diane, Erica, and
>Marcellas. Not.Even.Close.Bud.


...how is she torturing these people? Just by being there? Sorry that doesn't count. She hasn't done one proactive thing to torture any of these people, whereas Will was constantly going out of his way just to torture people, and not just Nicole. heck, he's even doing it this week with his brilliant idea to nominate marci JUST to torture him. Sorry bud, but you lose yet again.


>>there. I'm not saying Will
>isn't the best ever at
>this game, I'm just saying
>it's arguable, and it is.
>It appears as though Will
>has you drinking the same
>Kool-Aid he's serving up in
>the BB House. I thought
>you were smarter than that

no, its not arguable. That's the point. No one in the history of reality tv has ever had a bigger target on him and yet, here we are weeks later and he is running the whole show. You're right I am drinking the koolaid, because I am smart enough to recognize true greatness when i see it.

"RE: DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. "
Posted by Captain_Savem on 08-15-06 at 04:13 PM
LAST EDITED ON 08-15-06 AT 04:15 PM (EST)

...I stand by my statement regardless of what is being said on the livefeeds. But, that's nice that you look to mental wizards like Chicken George, Marcellus and Big Boy to rescue you from having said the dumbest comment ever.

Hey, you said it, not me. I was just pointing out the obvious.

And yes, I do like you, despite the retaded use of brown font (nailbone wannabe) in all your posts. But, just cause I like you doesn't mean you aren't eligible to called stupid.

You say "nailbone wannabe" like it's a bad thing. I'll take that as a compliment. And yeah, I've said some stupid stuff in my lifetime and don't mind being called on it, but unfortunately for you, this ain't one of those times.

...no, she is definitely not in the top 5 of all time. It takes a lot more than wining a few comps to be considered an all around great player. And on top of that, what has she really won? A veto comp this year that wasn't even a real competition. That was really impressive. An HOH that she only won on a re-do, after she was eliminiated legitimately the first time around and not by a buzzer malfunction.

A win is a win shakes, even you know that. And yes I'll agree with you, she was eliminated legitimately in an illegitmate competition. And the last time I checked, Janelle wasn't the only competing in the re-do. Everyone else had the same opportunity to win HoH and didn't because well, she kicks ass and they suck it.

You're talking about a girl that doesnt even know the saying "pull the wool over your eyes" for Christs sake! Winning competitions is such a small part of being good at BB compared to the mental, scheming part of the game. Especially when you take into account that you can't even compete in HOH's the week after you win. That puts even more importance on the non-comp part of the game.

I never said she was a plastic surgeon shakes. Okay, so she's not the sharpest tack in the drawer, but intelligence is not a prerequisite for greatness. And I would argue that winning comps is a HUGE part of the game. Don't believe me? Ask Alison, Nakomis, Jase, Diane, and Kaysar how important it is. Scheming and plotting sure as hell didn't help Alison, Jase, and Diane did it?

Here are the top 5 players of all time...

1. Will (not even close)
2. Danielle (a clear choice at 2nd, screwed by bad production decision)
3-5. Too close to tell the order, but they are...

Drew (won the game, was able to play both sides of house

Maggie (won the game, kept her alliance loyal and brilliantly convinced other alliance to target its own

Nicole (was nominated and targeted week 1 but rallied whole house against Chill town and into a successful alliance before turning on her own. Was also hurt by production decisions)

Other players better than Janelle...


Allison (finished 2nd, won challenges, was targeted several times and even convinced idiot to veto her)

Jun (won the game, had successful secret alliances w/ mulitiple people including ex-boyfriend)

Jason (came in 3rd, brilliant secret alliance with Danielle...convinced Marci to commmit biggest error in reality tv history)

1) Will (He's the best like I've already stipulated. But he sucks at comps so he's not as great as he would lead you to believe. I for one don't believe that he throws EVERY comp. He just sucks and uses "I did it on purpose" to protect is already inflated ego.)

2) Danielle? Ummm, she getting worked over by Will this season just as much as Janelle. And granted the only other person better at getting people to swallow their own tongues is Will, but Janelle wipes the floor with her competition-wise. I would say number 2 is a tie between Dani and Janey.

3-5) I'm not gonna even consider anyone in the Top 5 that wasn't even on the All-Stars Eligibily list of 20. And don't sit there and try to tell me that any of these famewhores had something better to do. The fact of the matter is if they weren't on the list they were either too booring or really sucked (or some combination of the two). It's that simple...

So that leaves only Alison and Nicole:

Alison got outed in the first week in All-Stars. Had Janelle not won HoH the first week she would've been gone. What was that you were saying about comps being "a small part of being good at BB" again? So no, Alison is not better than Janelle and they even went head-up. It wasn't even close.

Nicole. Seriously? She's good, I'll give you that. But having a near nervous breakdown (even if it was by the greatest player ever) excludes you from being considered Top 5 material. Maybe that's just me.

...how is she torturing these people? Just by being there? Sorry that doesn't count. She hasn't done one proactive thing to torture any of these people, whereas Will was constantly going out of his way just to torture people, and not just Nicole. heck, he's even doing it this week with his brilliant idea to nominate marci JUST to torture him. Sorry bud, but you lose yet again.

Not so fast my friend. Now you want to argue the merits of what's considered torture? Alberto Gonzales just called, I think he has a job for you. Let's just agree that making hamsters cry, whine, threaten to DOR, and otherwise miserable qualifies as torture no matter how it's delivered. And I would call winning HoHs, POVs, Luxury Prizes, and being a snarky bitch when she's drunk very "proactive".

no, its not arguable. That's the point. No one in the history of reality tv has ever had a bigger target on him and yet, here we are weeks later and he is running the whole show. You're right I am drinking the koolaid, because I am smart enough to recognize true greatness when i see it.

Janelle's target is bigger. Always has been, ever since week two last season. I didn't hear the whole house talking about getting rid of Will the first week. They were talking about getting rid of S6, and Janelle chief among them. So yeah, the arguement continues...


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"RE: DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. "
Posted by shakes the clown on 08-15-06 at 04:45 PM
>I never said she was a
>plastic surgeon shakes. Okay, so
>she's not the sharpest tack
>in the drawer, but intelligence
>is not a prerequisite for
>greatness. And I would argue
>that winning comps is a
>HUGE part of the game.
>Don't believe me? Ask Alison,
>Nakomis, Jase, Diane, and Kaysar
>how important it is. Scheming
>and plotting sure as hell
>didn't help Alison, Jase, and
>Diane did it?


...name me one person who ever won BB by winning competitions? Exactly. Now on the other hand name me one person who won BB despite never winning a competition? Exactly. Winning comps will only get you so far but it will NEVER get you the $500,000. Never has, never will.


>1) Will (He's the best like
>I've already stipulated. But he
>sucks at comps so he's
>not as great as he
>would lead you to believe.
>I for one don't believe
>that he throws EVERY comp.
>He just sucks and uses
>"I did it on purpose"
>to protect is already inflated
>ego.)


...first of all, that's just speculation on your part. Second of all, as someone argued below, Will's strategy is to never win comps and therefore never get the target put on him that you get when you win comps. Unlike oh, everyone else who has ever played thsi game, Will doesn't need to be in power to have power so why would he even want to win comps? Which is the oppposite of Janelle, who exerts ZERO power unless she holds the power, and even then, she is still easily persuaded by others (Will)to do their bidding.


>
>2) Danielle? Ummm, she getting worked
>over by Will this season
>just as much as Janelle.
>And granted the only other
>person better at getting people
>to swallow their own tongues
>is Will, but Janelle wipes
>the floor with her competition-wise.
>I would say number 2
>is a tie between Dani
>and Janey.


...you have got to be kidding me???? To compare Janelle to Danielle is a complete joke. Danielle is master only second to Will at playing people and building trust with people AND keeping her mouth shut, someting Janelle can never do. On top of that, Danielle should've actually won he season but for a horrible mistake by the producers....Janelle didn't even make it to the final 2, despite her so-called dominance in competitions.


>
>3-5) I'm not gonna even consider
>anyone in the Top 5
>that wasn't even on the
>All-Stars Eligibily list of 20.
>And don't sit there and
>try to tell me that
>any of these famewhores had
>something better to do. The
>fact of the matter is
>if they weren't on the
>list they were either too
>booring or really sucked (or
>some combination of the two).
>It's that simple...


...teh only thing simple about your excuse is that you have no explanation and instead are trying this half @ssed way of non-arguing. Being on the allstar eligibility list means NOTHING. Who cares who is on that list? Unless that list was made by an objective unbiased independent firm intent on coming up with the 20 best BB players in history whether or nto you are on the list has ZERO bearing on this discussion...adn you are smart enough to come up with a better excuse than that half @ss BS. Which leads me to believe that you have NO argument for Janelle being better than Drew and Maggie.

Drew won BB, he won competitions, he also made successful alliances and was able to cross over and work his way into the other alliances in the house. And yet, you think Janelle is a better player? Well, actually you probably don't since you had no argument for that other than that BS crap you tried to use.

As for Maggie, she actually beat Janelle head to head. Didn't you use head to head as a reason that Janelle is better than Allison? Well, I guess that means you agree with me on Maggie being better than Janelle then since she won the head to head battle. And unlike Janelle, Maggie was able to pull the move of teh season when she infiltrated tghe other alliance and got Howie to nominate the wrong people. Janelle didn't even bother talking to the other alliance the entire game.


>
>So that leaves only Alison and
>Nicole:
>
>Alison got outed in the first
>week in All-Stars. Had Janelle
>not won HoH the first
>week she would've been gone.
>What was that you were
>saying about comps being "a
>small part of being good
>at BB" again? So no,
>Alison is not better than
>Janelle and they even went
>head-up. It wasn't even close.

...that is such a load of crap! Unlike Janelle, Allison didnt' walk into the game with a 4 person alliance under her belt. She had to scramble and take risks right off the bat since she didn't have anyone to hide behind like Janelle. But, to judge how they did in their respective seasons it isn't even close...Allison played a much better game than Janelle...she won plenty of competitions including the last one which Janelle couldn't, she worked her way into several alliances and even convinced a competitor to use the VEto on her. YOu're right, it isn't close between those two, Allison wins hands down.


>
>Nicole. Seriously? She's good, I'll give
>you that. But having a
>near nervous breakdown (even if
>it was by the greatest
>player ever) excludes you from
>being considered Top 5 material.
>Maybe that's just me.


...HUH??? That excuse is even dumber than the one you used on Drew. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Not in the top 5 b/c she had a near nervous breakdown once she made it to the final 2???? Do I even really need to argue taht? I don't think so. Come back with a substantive arguement why Janelle is better than Nicole and I"ll argue it, but I don't need to waste my time on your non-argments.

>
Let's just agree
>that making hamsters cry, whine,
>threaten to DOR, and otherwise
>miserable qualifies as torture no
>matter how it's delivered. And
>I would call winning HoHs,
>POVs, Luxury Prizes, and being
>a snarky bitch when she's
>drunk very "proactive".


...huh again? So basically you want to give her credit for torturing people by basically jsut being there? As opposed to Will who tortured people right to their face, and with a smile on his so they didn't even realize he was the source of their misery. Get a clue buddy.


>Janelle's target is bigger. Always has
>been, ever since week two
>last season. I didn't hear
>the whole house talking about
>getting rid of Will the
>first week. They were talking
>about getting rid of S6,
>and Janelle chief among them.
>So yeah, the arguement continues...
>


...that's the point genius! Will is so great that he removed the biggest target in reality tv history from his back w/i two weeks of being in the house. don't give me this crap about Janelle having the biggest target on her back, that's a joke. Was she a previous winner? No. Nuff said. Did anyone respect her gameplay? No. Do they respect her ability to win comps? Yes, and thats about it. And I would argue that Janelle didn't even have tghe biggest target on her back from her own alliance. Kaysar did imo.

And you are rigth about one thing and one thing only. Janelles target is bigger NOW. That's because Will is such a genius that he manages to make the target on his back smaller rather than bigger as the game goes on. Unlike Janelle, who only gets more and more hated as tghe game goes on. Do you think its a coincidence that everyone in the house hates her in both BB6 AND bb7? Everyone puts it on jealousy, but eventually you have to look at Janelle and her conduct as opposed to just blaming EVERYONE except Janelle. First of all, she makes no effort to socialize with 70% of the other people in the house in BOTH SEASONS. That's smart. And then she makes brilliant moves like at the non ceremony when she called out Erika for NO REASON! What was the point of that? Why get Erika mad at you? What end game does that serve except to make your target bigger? Would Will ever do something so stupid? Hell no.


Face it, you're wrong and its not even close. There are many aspects to this game....here is a list...

Winning competitions
Building Alliances
building cross-alliance w/o getting caught
socializing/becoming popular w/ fellow contestants


Of these 4, Janelle does one very well and the other 3 she is HORRIBLE at! How can you consider her a top player when she absolutely svcks at every aspect of the game except one! And tghe one aspect she is good at is the one that NEVER gets you the big prize in the end.

"RE: DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. "
Posted by nailbone on 08-15-06 at 05:30 PM
Janelle didn't even make it to the final 2, despite her so-called dominance in competitions.

She did make it to the Final 3, but then lost the most important competition.

Being on the allstar eligibility list means NOTHING. Who cares who is on that list? Unless that list was made by an objective unbiased independent firm intent on coming up with the 20 best BB players in history whether or nto you are on the list has ZERO bearing on this discussion...

Exactly. As I said someplace else here, it's "All-Stars" not "Best Of". It's based on popularity, not skill.


Holey carp! My blog! MySpace!
Official OT Tassel Adjuster and OT Fantasy Football Champ! o-
"RE: DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. "
Posted by Captain_Savem on 08-15-06 at 07:01 PM
...name me one person who ever won BB by winning competitions? Now on the other hand name me one person who won BB despite never winning a competition? Exactly. Winning comps will only get you so far but it will NEVER get you the $500,000. Never has, never will.

You're absolutey right. Not about the "Never has, never will" part, but yeah, no one has ever won BB by winning just comps. But that's not the arguement here. The arguement is whether or not Janelle deserves to be mentioned in the Top 5 of the greatest players ever. And so far you haven't proven me wrong.

...first of all, that's just speculation on your part. Second of all, as someone argued below, Will's strategy is to never win comps and therefore never get the target put on him that you get when you win comps. Unlike oh, everyone else who has ever played thsi game, Will doesn't need to be in power to have power so why would he even want to win comps? Which is the oppposite of Janelle, who exerts ZERO power unless she holds the power, and even then, she is still easily persuaded by others (Will)to do their bidding.

Speculation? Okay, I'll give you that. And I'll even admit that he does throw most of the comps that he plays in, but until he actually wins something of meaning, I'll just keep speculating that he does indeed suck at them.

...you have got to be kidding me???? To compare Janelle to Danielle is a complete joke. Danielle is master only second to Will at playing people and building trust with people AND keeping her mouth shut, someting Janelle can never do. On top of that, Danielle should've actually won he season but for a horrible mistake by the producers....Janelle didn't even make it to the final 2, despite her so-called dominance in competitions.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Danielle is second only to Will in manipulation, that I agree with. Janelle is second to none in her ability to win comps especially with her ass on the line, which to say....ALWAYS. So their each very good at one aspect of gameplay and not quite as good in the other, therefore a tie.

...teh only thing simple about your excuse is that you have no explanation and instead are trying this half @ssed way of non-arguing. Being on the allstar eligibility list means NOTHING. Who cares who is on that list? Unless that list was made by an objective unbiased independent firm intent on coming up with the 20 best BB players in history whether or nto you are on the list has ZERO bearing on this discussion...adn you are smart enough to come up with a better excuse than that half @ss BS. Which leads me to believe that you have NO argument for Janelle being better than Drew and Maggie.

Whaa? There's absolutely no way to have an objective, unbiased, independent way of coming up with a fair rating list. If there was, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. Therefore, we have to work with what we have. But for the sake of arguement, I'll tell you why Drew and Maggie aren't better than Janelle...


Drew won BB, he won competitions, he also made successful alliances and was able to cross over and work his way into the other alliances in the house. And yet, you think Janelle is a better player? Well, actually you probably don't since you had no argument for that other than that BS crap you tried to use.

You forgot to add that Drew has the personality of a sack of potatoes. Sure, he joined the Four HorsesAsses right from the beginning and when they were quickly disbanded he runs to Diane and convinces her that he likes her, thus getting her to do his bidding. Then, for good measure he mind fvcks Cowtard and convinces him their actually BFF, and convinces him to be Drew's henchman. Wow! That takes some serious skillz there! Only not. Drew's a good manipulator, but only marginally good considering the Mensas he was up against. But his overall gameplay consisted of making out with Diane (which shoulda qualified for immediate eviction) and slapping Cowtard on the ass. Oh, and he won an HoH, big whoop. I'll give him props because he won, but then so did Jun.


As for Maggie, she actually beat Janelle head to head. Didn't you use head to head as a reason that Janelle is better than Allison? Well, I guess that means you agree with me on Maggie being better than Janelle then since she won the head to head battle. And unlike Janelle, Maggie was able to pull the move of teh season when she infiltrated tghe other alliance and got Howie to nominate the wrong people. Janelle didn't even bother talking to the other alliance the entire game.

Yeah, she beat her head-to-head, you're right about that. But Maggie had the advantage of knowing that even if she didn't win the last HoH (which she didn't) and Ivette won (which she did) that she was still going to the final two. Two-to-One is pretty good odds at that point. But hey, I'm not one to make excuses so I'll give you that one. Maggie just had the numbers on her side at the end which is why she won, and convincing Howie to slit his own (and his alliance's) throat is not as difficult as you make it out to be. She won one HoH and one Veto. If I admit that Maggie is a great player, then I would have to admit that David Kurresh was a great leader. Not happening clown.


...that is such a load of crap! Unlike Janelle, Allison didnt' walk into the game with a 4 person alliance under her belt. She had to scramble and take risks right off the bat since she didn't have anyone to hide behind like Janelle.

Load of crap?! Pot? Meet kettle. What is a "load of crap" is you trying to justify Alison's eviction by saying she was at a disadvantage becuase she didn't walk in with a 4 person alliance under her belt. Neither did the other nine people shakes. And yet, she was the one evicted first. Why? Becuase she let Danielle work her that's why. Because she opened her big mouth when she should've kept it shut, that's why. She didn't have to "scramble and take risks right off the bat" as you say. Janelle even said Alison wasn't on her radar until she found out Alison was coming after her.

And I would also argue that coming in with a 4 person alliance is actually a disadvantage and not an advantage. And you can't tell me Janelle was "hiding" from anyone. How could she? And she won HoH the first week, so to say Janelle was hiding behind people is an outlandish statement even coming from you. Alison made a rookie mistake that a person with half a brain would have known better not do. Hell, even Chicken George knew better than to say something and he was right there when Danielle first proposed the idea.

But, to judge how they did in their respective seasons it isn't even close...Allison played a much better game than Janelle...she won plenty of competitions including the last one which Janelle couldn't, she worked her way into several alliances and even convinced a competitor to use the VEto on her. YOu're right, it isn't close between those two, Allison wins hands down.

You're judging two different playing styles from two very different seasons. Alison is a master manipulator, that's what she's good at. Janelle is a master competitor, that's what she's good at. I'm not gonna argue who's style is better, in the end, they both lost anyway. Yeah, Alison came in second, while Janelle came in third in their respective seasons - Advantage Alison. Alison gets ousted in week one while Janelle is still playing despite YOUR prediction she'd be gone last week (this week at the latest) - Game.Set.Match.Janelle.

...HUH??? That excuse is even dumber than the one you used on Drew. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Not in the top 5 b/c she had a near nervous breakdown once she made it to the final 2???? Do I even really need to argue taht? I don't think so. Come back with a substantive arguement why Janelle is better than Nicole and I"ll argue it, but I don't need to waste my time on your non-argments.

I thought the answer was obvious. Nichole's not as mentally tough as Janelle. Sure Janelle is as gullible and as susceptible to being manipulated as a three year old, but nobody handles pressure like the Janey Doll. She tough as nails. Tougher than Nichole even. Which probably explains the reason why Nichole never came back (except for the food comp and she could barely handle that!). I'm guessing Will made her cry so they had to go to flames for pretty long while. Nichole's a wuss, that's why she's not better than Janelle. Do I need to break it down any further?

...that's the point genius! Will is so great that he removed the biggest target in reality tv history from his back w/i two weeks of being in the house. don't give me this crap about Janelle having the biggest target on her back, that's a joke. Was she a previous winner? No. Nuff said. Did anyone respect her gameplay? No. Do they respect her ability to win comps? Yes, and thats about it. And I would argue that Janelle didn't even have tghe biggest target on her back from her own alliance. Kaysar did imo.

Okay shakes. We're just gonna have to disagree about who's target was bigger. Sure, Will was a previous winner and considered very dangerous but that didn't trump being the most dangerous player in the biggest alliance in the house according to the other hamsters. They were talking about getting rid of Season 6 (Janelle first) before the door to the house had shut all the way, so the jokes on you if you believe otherwise.

And Danielle respected her gameplay, she said as much. Marcellas (if that means something, which it doesn't but I'm anwering your question), and Erika was in the Janey fan club too! And no, Kaysar's target wasn't bigger than Janelle's, if he was he woulda been on the block from the beginning. The only reason why Kaysar went home is because Janelle won veto.

And you are rigth about one thing and one thing only. Janelles target is bigger NOW. That's because Will is such a genius that he manages to make the target on his back smaller rather than bigger as the game goes on. Unlike Janelle, who only gets more and more hated as tghe game goes on. Do you think its a coincidence that everyone in the house hates her in both BB6 AND bb7? Everyone puts it on jealousy, but eventually you have to look at Janelle and her conduct as opposed to just blaming EVERYONE except Janelle. First of all, she makes no effort to socialize with 70% of the other people in the house in BOTH SEASONS. That's smart. And then she makes brilliant moves like at the non ceremony when she called out Erika for NO REASON! What was the point of that? Why get Erika mad at you? What end game does that serve except to make your target bigger? Would Will ever do something so stupid? Hell no.

The more Janelle is hated the more she steps her game up. She has a scortched earth type of style that she's comfortable with. It will never give her the ultimate prize but it will win her fans and I'm one of them. Sure, she doesn't understand that in order to get along, you have to go along. She's never had to play it that way before and she's not able to adapt. So, she plays the only way she know how....balls to the freaking wall! It doesn't mean she isn't a great player, she just not a great schemer which is only one aspect of the game.

Winning competitions
Building Alliances
building cross-alliance w/o getting caught
socializing/becoming popular w/ fellow contestants

Of these 4, Janelle does one very well and the other 3 she is HORRIBLE at! How can you consider her a top player when she absolutely svcks at every aspect of the game except one! And tghe one aspect she is good at is the one that NEVER gets you the big prize in the end.

Count again shakes. Janelle has two of the four. Winning comps and building alliances. Just because she's not going to win the big prize at the end doesn't mean she isn't a great player, no matter what you may think.



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"RE: DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. "
Posted by JoshInSGV on 08-15-06 at 08:43 PM
Geez... I don't even know if I wanna get in the crossfire, but here's my opinion for whatever is worth.

I don't believe in a million years that Drew is a better player than Janelle just because he won the game on BB5. Drew was a good competitor and he did win about 4 HOH's, especially the last and most important HOH. But, if you really look at his gameplay, he was riding Diane's coattails 90% of the time. Winning the game or finishing up as a runner is not the same as good gameplay. If you follow that reasoning than Lisa is a better player than Danielle/Jason because she won. Or, that's like saying that Cowboy is a better player than Diane just because he finished second, even though Cowboy did nothing in the game other than being everybody's puppet.

Having said that, I do believe that Janelle's ability to save herself in the face of adversity, whether it's by winning HOH or POV is an outstanding quality/achievement. And, in my book that does land her on the top 5 BB players of all times.

"and another thing"
Posted by shakes the clown on 08-15-06 at 02:43 PM
Now that I think about it i would contend that janelle isn't even in the top 10 of all time. All she can do is do well at competitions. Every other part of her game is HORRIBLE, not just bad, but HORRIBLE.

Let's look at BB6. You're right, she was targetted in week 2. Ahd how did she respond? Did she go out and rally or try to get in with the other people in the house? No, she locked herself in her room and basically stayed there the ENTIRE game! That's good game playing???

Not only does she svck at keeping her own alliance in check (Howie nominations in BB6, getting caught in a lie in BB7) but she makes ZERO effort to blend in with the other alliances in the house. That strategy may work in Survivor where all you need are numbers. But, not in BB, where even the weakest alliance in the game can grab the power at any given time.

And then you have tghe vicious circle of winning comps = more of a target = nominated more = need to win more comps. Would you call that a recipe for winning the game? I wouldn't.

Now look at Will. Unlike janelle, who sometimes can't even get the people she wants nominated EVEN when her alliance has the power, Will has basically gotten the whole house evicted DESPITE NEVER having the power.

Also, Will recognizes the vicious circle from above and therefore goes out of his way to NEVER win a competition. Unlike Janelle, he knows he doesn't have to win comps to have power in this game. THAT is the definition of true power.


Face it, its not even close and its laughable that I even had to argue it, kinda like wasting your time arguing that Michael Jordan was a better basketball player than Detlef Schrempf.

"RE: and another thing"
Posted by sarasota55 on 08-15-06 at 02:56 PM
Agreed.
"RE: and another thing"
Posted by frisky on 08-15-06 at 07:03 PM
>she locked herself in her room and basically stayed there the ENTIRE game!

I was going to point this out in the above exchange.

Janelle has never had to stick her neck out because she's hiding behind the guys. She comes out of her room long enough to win comps, then she retreats again. She spent the greater part of last season locked in the bedroom.

The REAL players in this game are the ones who are actually in the game -- taking risks, talking, listening, lying, instigating, stirring up sh*t. Not hiding under the covers "studying" for HoH comps.

I loathe her. I *heart* Will. I loathe her so much, and I *heart* Will so much, that if Will is the reason for her exit, I will celebrate with the drinking of drinks and laugh til I cry.


Rolly made this.
Desperate Housecats

"RE: and another thing"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 08-16-06 at 12:16 PM
LAST EDITED ON 08-16-06 AT 12:21 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 08-16-06 AT 12:18 PM (EST)

Janelle has never had to stick her neck out because she's hiding behind the guys. She comes out of her room long enough to win comps, then she retreats again. She spent the greater part of last season locked in the bedroom.

Please explain to me how winning 3 of 6 HoHs and two POVs is "not sticking her neck out" and "hiding behind the guys"? Cuz I don't see it. When the Sovs needed an HoH she won it (when she was eligible). When she needed the veto to save herself she didn't ask anybody to give it her, she went out there and took it, unlike Danielle who had James and Will hand her the veto on a silver platter. And I never once heard Janelle tell anybody that she made a nom decision because someone told her to do it, unlike James who blamed everything on his alliance and threw them under the bus in week three. And Maggie, who shakes deems a great player *eye roll* spent the better part of last season holed-up in the HoH room serving Kool-Aid to all her minions and getting them to jump on the granade for her. Who's hiding behind who?

To say she spent the greater part of last season locked in her room is gross misrepresentation of the facts. The fact is EVERYONE spent the greater part of last season locked in their room. When the Nerd Herd won HoH they even went as far as have everyone sleep in there! She was just as social or anti-social as everyone else last year except for James who was a floater.

The fact is I think Janelle has a very hard time pretending to like people that she thinks are shady or that she believes hate her. She finds it difficult to be around them so she isolates herself and only socializes with people that she likes (Sovs, ChillTown). It's a completely normal reaction outside the house, but not so normal inside of it.

And sure, she may not be a social butterfly, but she isn't exactly a hermit either.

The REAL players in this game are the ones who are actually in the game -- taking risks, talking, listening, lying, instigating, stirring up sh*t. Not hiding under the covers "studying" for HoH comps.

The schemers aren't the only REAL players in the game. If scheming were the only important part of the game, they wouldn't even bother having comps. BB should just draw names out of a hat every week to determine who gets HoH and PoV and the backstabbing begin!!

In my opinion Will and Janelle represent the two extremes of BB game playing. Will is all about the scheming and plotting and doesn't do well (or want to do well) in the competition portion. Janelle is all about the comps and doesn't do well with scheming and plotting. Everyone else falls somewhere in between the two, but they are all playing the game (except for maybe Chicken George, Yapril, and Cowtard).

I understand why people don't like Janelle. And if she wasn't such a soldier I probably wouldn't like her either. But if your gonna critique her gameplay, I think you should be a little fair in representing the facts.


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"RE: and another thing"
Posted by Wacko Jacko on 08-16-06 at 03:41 PM
Cappy, I am with you. She definitely sticks her neck out...she is no hypocrit. Sure she has made some dumb moves but she is definitely playing.
"RE: and another thing"
Posted by LIVEURBESTLIFE on 08-16-06 at 05:00 PM
Winning competitions is a very small part of the game. Being HOH gives you certain advantages but it won't win you the $500,000. The largest part of the game is social. Being able to win people over is how you win in this type of game.

Maggie serving Kool-Aid to her minions is a smart move on Maggies part. The Friendship Alliance never turned on each other and in the end they voted for Maggie who had established herself as a leader, friend and confidante among her alliance members.

Isolating yourself is never a good idea when winning depends on the votes of the people you are isolating yourself from. Janelle takes alot personally. She doesn't want to talk to people she doesn't like. That's not smart in a game like this. You have to know where people stand at all times and you have to manage their perception of you.

A large part of the reason Will is able to manipulate Janelle is because of her isolation and the unwillingness to communicate with other HG. Essentially, Will can tell her almost anything. It is also the reason why just about everybody in the house is in on the manipulation except she and Howie. She is cutting her own throat in this game and she doesn't even know it.

BB like Survivor is about human interaction not winning comps. As a matter of fact, winning lots of comps can cause you to lose the game not win it.

"RE: and another thing"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 08-16-06 at 05:55 PM
LAST EDITED ON 08-16-06 AT 05:55 PM (EST)

A large part of the reason Will is able to manipulate Janelle is because of her isolation and the unwillingness to communicate with other HG.

Damn! Listening to you guys tell it, I'd swear she was in solitary confinement or something! It's not like she has no interaction whatsoever with the rest of the houseguests, she just isn't trying to work deals with everyone. And Will has done a masterful job manipulating the whole house which do interact with each other so I don't think Janey's "isolation" is that much to blame for her gullibility. She just fails to ask and follow-up on the obvious questions like most of the house.

And I can't believe you just said Survivor was not about winning comps. Yes, human interaction is a big part of both games (I'd be an idiot not to acknowledge that) but so is winning comps, especially in Survivor.


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"RE: and another thing"
Posted by LIVEURBESTLIFE on 08-16-06 at 06:25 PM
LAST EDITED ON 08-16-06 AT 06:27 PM (EST)

Look at it this way Janelle doesn't have a clue Will is in an alliance with Danielle. But Danielle knows about Janelle and Will. Janelle and Howie had no idea Ericka, Danielle, Woogie, and James were all in cahoots about the Marci nom and pending eviction. Janelle also doesn't know that Will threw POV to save Dani. She thinks only James threw that comp. She also doesn't know that CG votes the way Dani tells him too.

But if Janelle talked game and strategy with more than just her alliance she would be a little more in the know. Or at least she would know more about relationships in the house by observing. Marci couldn't give her any useful info because he was basically on his own in the game. She would have known there would be backlash in evicting Diane if she were talking to everyone the way many HOH's do. You know...they get opinions and strategies and thoughts from everybody before making a decision. She doesn't do that.

When Kaysar was up for eviction they wouldn't make any deals with Dani. Why not? It would have saved their a**es. She thinks that all she need to do is win comps...wrong she needs to win people too.

"RE: and another thing"
Posted by Wacko Jacko on 08-17-06 at 10:31 AM
She should be suspicous of Will just as much as James both one the first competition and neither eliminated Danielle. Then both purposely lost their next competition. Just because james chose to get rid of Erika and Will did not does not mean a thing. THEY BOTH were instructed to get rid of Danielle and neither did. How Will convinced Janella he was on board is beyond me.
"RE: and another thing"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 08-17-06 at 12:09 PM
You said exactly what I was gonna say Jacko. And although LIVEURBESTLIFE brings up some excellent points, Janelle's main problem is refusing to trust her instincts and believe things that are right in front her of eyes.

It was so obvious that Will threw that veto comp. just as much as James did. Come on! Three minutes to ride the mechanical bull?! Hello? Anybody home?

Her ignorance frustrates me sometimes.


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"RE: and another thing"
Posted by LIVEURBESTLIFE on 08-17-06 at 12:15 PM
Uhhh...excuse me you two Jacko and Capt..

If you would reread my post I think both of you will realize that I say that BOTH Will and James are responsible for throwing the comp. BUT Janie is only suspicious of James.

It was pretty obivious to the viewing audience that this was the case ... so there is no speculation or arguments that need to be made on this particular point.

"RE: and another thing"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 08-17-06 at 05:57 PM
"Janelle also doesn't know that Will threw POV to save Dani."

I'm sorry my post wasn't as clear as I thought. I was referring to what Janelle believed, not you.


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"RE: and another thing"
Posted by frisky on 08-17-06 at 02:14 AM
You've covered much of my response here, Liv.

One thing all the winners have in common is powers of persuasion. How does Janelle persuade people to do what she wants? She nominates two women, and then orders her alliance to knock that person out. As Howie said in last night's show, she's the HoH, so her plan is the plan. She is unable to explain her nominations even to her own alliance. She is not able to explain to them why she's protecting Marci. A good strategist would cover all the bases and have a story at the ready!

Instead, she trips through the social part of the game and wins competitions that get her from one week to the next, but even if she made it to the final two (which she would only be able to do via competitions), but she does not have the persuasiveness to win the votes at the end.

As for isolation, you can't even compare Janelle's seclusion with Maggie's seclusion. Maggie's was strategic; she kept her sheep close to her and away from anyone who may try to lure them away from the cult. Janelle secluded herself because she didn't like people.

Competitions allow people like Janelle to advance in the game. The really skilled players are the ones who make it to the end without the protection of the HoH title or the Veto.


Rolly made this.
Desperate Housecats

"RE: and another thing"
Posted by LIVEURBESTLIFE on 08-17-06 at 12:18 PM
^5 Frisky
"SMARTEST. POSTS. EVER."
Posted by shakes the clown on 08-17-06 at 12:34 PM
Its a tough call, but it has to be a tie between Frisky and LIVERURBESTLIFE.

Its not often you get to witness such brilliance on this message board, but these two have shown us that with great perseverance (sp), determination, and intelligence it is possible to not only overcome but completely conquer the seaping ignorance that oozes from CaptenSaven's comments.

Congrats you two, and keep up the good work!

"RE: SMARTEST. POSTS. EVER."
Posted by ginger on 08-17-06 at 12:54 PM
Shakes likes kitties!


Or could he be...................pussy whipped?

Sorry, where's Frisque's involved I lose that discretionary index.

"RE: SMARTEST. POSTS. EVER."
Posted by frisky on 08-17-06 at 08:11 PM
The words "shakes" and "kitties" in the same sentence usually send me skidding under the couch!


Rolly made this.
Desperate Housecats

"RE: SMARTEST. POSTS. EVER."
Posted by chappi66 on 08-17-06 at 02:45 PM
>Its a tough call, but it
>has to be a tie
>between Frisky and LIVERURBESTLIFE.
>
>Its not often you get to
>witness such brilliance on this
>message board, but these two
>have shown us that with
>great perseverance (sp), determination, and
>intelligence it is possible to
>not only overcome but completely
>conquer the seaping ignorance that
>oozes from CaptenSaven's comments.
>
>Congrats you two, and keep up
>the good work!


Ditto on that one. Awesome comeback. Could not have said it better myself. Keep it up LIV and Frisky


"RE: SMARTEST. POSTS. EVER."
Posted by LIVEURBESTLIFE on 08-17-06 at 03:35 PM
I have never seen a SMARTEST. POSTS. EVER. from Shakes but I am glad to be a part of it.


Thanks you guys...*takes a bow*

"RE: SMARTEST. POSTS. EVER."
Posted by shakes the clown on 08-17-06 at 04:07 PM
>I have never seen a SMARTEST.
>POSTS. EVER. from Shakes but
>I am glad to be
>a part of it.
>
>
>Thanks you guys...*takes a bow*


..don't get ahead of yourself, as we speak your comments in the "tension w/ Jules" thread about Julie Chen deserving respect as a reality tv host is under serious scrutiny at Shakes the clown HQ for that "other" award I like to give out.

In fact, you migth set some sort of record for winning SMARTEST and DUMBEST in the same day.

"RE: SMARTEST. POSTS. EVER."
Posted by LIVEURBESTLIFE on 08-17-06 at 05:38 PM
Technically, I wouldn't qualify for winning both on the same day because I haven't posted in that other thread in awhile.

With that said...if you do decide to give me the Dumbest Post Award I will take it with PRIDE because I stand by all my comments. I would rather get the dumbest award sooner than later anyway...lololol.

Thank you.

"RE: SMARTEST. POSTS. EVER."
Posted by frisky on 08-17-06 at 08:13 PM
Does this mean that I am now the sole holder of the SMARTEST.POST.EVER?


Rolly made this.
Desperate Housecats

"RE: SMARTEST. POSTS. EVER."
Posted by nailbone on 08-18-06 at 11:21 AM
No, it means that LIV would be the sole holder of "both at once".


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"RE: SMARTEST. POSTS. EVER."
Posted by Savahnna on 08-29-06 at 10:47 AM
your comments in
>the "tension w/ Jules" thread
>about Julie Chen deserving respect
>as a reality tv host
>is under serious scrutiny at
>Shakes the clown HQ for
>that "other" award I like
>to give out.
>
>In fact, you migth set some
>sort of record for winning
>SMARTEST and DUMBEST in the
>same day.


HEY!! Knock it off! You're not the only jury member of "smartest or dumbest" post! I happen to totally agree with LIVEURBESTLIFE on her stance about Julie deserving respect as a reality tv host. No need to elaborate on that or address the whole issue again....but she's (or he..not sure)...demonstrated good sense in my book which would award her "smartest post" in that thread.

I don't care if you call this the "Dumbest Post" ever. I'm sure it would be hard to pick from all of mine. But this isn't it!

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by roxydog on 08-14-06 at 07:29 PM
This is the 1st season that I have watched.

I would not be watching if not for Will. He is the only entertaining player on the show.

I didn't see BB6 but from this season I don't see how anyone can root for those bafoons. Idiots, the lot of them.

But will is so good he would play anyone of us like a fiddle too if we were there and couldn't see any of his side dealings, etc...

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by sabj on 08-14-06 at 07:49 PM
LAST EDITED ON 08-15-06 AT 08:00 AM (EST)

I tried watching season 1 of BB and was bored. Ironically, the only one I remembered from that season was Chicken George. I decided to watch season 2, which was Will's season. I was hooked after that. From the moment I watched him work his magic, I've always said he is the greatest BB player EVER.

The scary thing is, his game is MUCH stronger than it was in Season 2. He is playing much, much harder than he did back then. It's a beautiful thing to watch. He's brilliant! He knows it's a game of manipulation and he's working it.

I at first thought that Boogie might be dragging Will down a bit, but I'm actually feeling better about Boogie the more I watch. He is definitely the side kick, but his game is much, much better than season 2, too. He's definitely playing his role well in Chill town.

BTW, the SECOND greatest player in Big Brother history is DANIELLE. She kept her alliance stealth the ENTIRE SEASON of BB3. No one has ever, EVER done that. She kept her head in the game, too, even when she had to cut a deal to get to the final 2. She cried over that deal because it basically ruined it for her alliance partner, but she did what she had to do to win.

Only reason she came in second was because the voting players saw all of her tapes and learned all that she had said and done. That move by CBS ruined what should have been her winning game. I don't think they show all tapes any more.

Danielle is playing very differently this year, but don't count her out. She is the queen of "Stealth" strategy. Plus, people seem to trust her and listen to her. That is part of her strategy, too.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Bob Tomato on 08-14-06 at 09:35 PM
What impresses me most about Will is how much he has adapted his game this time around. Most people on the show are playing the same game they played last time, which in all cases was unsuccessful. But Will, who succeeded with an under the radar, lie like you mean it strategy has come back with a much more high profile approach. He is also probably the hardest working guy in the game, moving back and forth among his shifting alliances and molding their thinking the way he wants. It is remarkable.
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Joyav123 on 08-14-06 at 11:02 PM
Dr Doom is working it that for sure, he uses humor and smoozes
as needed, he has charm. Dr Doom also has the advantage of coming into the game with a sidekick that has been his friend for years they really know each other and have the money thing
worked out, no one else has this tight a bond.
James and Danielle had a pre game alliance also that makes the
game no quite fair, but I guess with this group there the sleeze
factor, James, the Sleezer.
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by nazpink on 08-14-06 at 11:14 PM
If it wasn't for Will I don't think BB would even be in exsistance!!!!!! Will was the first one to not only play the game the way it was intended but to truly understand it. I'm elated that we, as BB fans, have had the honor to watch Will, at least I am. I love his ability to not only understand the game but to get that it's just a game, he doesn't make it personal, which is great because I get sick of seeing people whine about how someone decieved them.......well duh!!!! Sure, his arrogance can get a tad bit annoying at times, but hey at least he earned it unlike other BB contestants......like Marci and Howie. For these people to even keep this guy in the game is just plain crazy. If Will makes it to the end and I'm sure he does, I say he deserves the title and the money, but most of all the title.
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Wacko Jacko on 08-15-06 at 10:30 AM
I am amazed almost more by the stupidity of the people in the house than I am by Will. Will is great, he had a great game plan moving into the house.

Three things amaze me about the people in the house. First off, did they watch how Will played the game the first time?

Will started the game off as saying he doesn't care if he wins, he just wants to go home. Which was great reverse psychology, but aren't the hosue guests now wondering why he all of a sudden cares?

Also, Will has been walking around the house with a shirt that says 'I am probably Lying'. Yet, these people buy every word he says.

Sure Will had a great gameplan...he watched Survivor All-Stars and said how do I get by in this game when they will be gunning for previous winners first. That worked to a tee. But these so called all-stars are total buffoons.

I am really enjoying this season. Jase was always one of my favorite palyers so I was caught in a tough situation when it was either Will or Jase going home that one week. As much as I like Jase, Will is making this season way more entertianing being around instead of Jase.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by michel on 08-15-06 at 10:56 AM
Everyone else is playing BB as if it was Survivor. Janelle and Kaysar are the ones that have invested the most of their game on this mistake. Numbers don't help you here as Kaysar learned. Janelle was the target but since she saved herself, Kaysar was put up simply because he was part of her alliance. You can't be part of ONE alliance. Will's strategy of being with multiple links but basically being a loner is masterful.

I didn't see BB2, has Will ever been HOH? All I know is he hasn't been HOH this season but every vote has gone his way!

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by abbahammer on 08-15-06 at 12:14 PM
None of the people this season are paying attention. Even Danielle. Will threw the challenge that got Janelle off the hook, and they blamed Marcellas for it.
But, in terms of game...this is how it pans out for me.
Will
Danielle
James
Mike
George
Janelle
Howie
Marcellas
Erika

But after the top two there is really no comparison. Janelle is terrible strategist and goes after people vindictively. As for challenges, she simply has a good memory and is not too bad at the physical challenges. I can't stand her personality and she knows absolutely nothing. I was schocked when I heard she had not heard of certain expressions.

The whole alliance thing and people wanting people to be honourable makes me laugh. It's a game. A win 1 million dollar game. Lie, cheat, steal. Who cares. It is not about honour, it's about manipulation. Someone mentioned it above that this game is much different than survivor because you can be voted out each week. The best manipulator wins.

Abbahammer

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Wacko Jacko on 08-15-06 at 05:59 PM
abbahammer, not sure I agree with your rankings. You may not like the way some are playing but they are playing. Too rank anyone below George is crazy. Everyone is playing more than George. Actually of course Will is number one. After that it is debatable.

1. Will
2. Boogie
3. James
4. Erika
5. Danielle
6. Marcellas
7. Janelle
8. Howie
9. George

1.Will is undisputed #1.
2. Boogie...almost put him at #1 because he won the Coup. he is in a great position. Others will now most likely target Will over him now. Will has played better but Boogie is in a better shape than Will right now.
3.James is #3, because both alliances view him as a member....thus who wants to vote him out? Even CT don't because they will tick off both alliance groups.
4.Erika is #3 because no one realizes she is in with CT. She has some backers and if CT is fighting to save you you are in good shape at this point. She stayed close to the enemy early on which was good. Has people protecting her. This is a strategy my friend.
5. Most established Danielle as #2 but she made the big mistake of becoming the established leader of the 'floaters' and will be a target from here on out.
6. Marcellas is only ranked this high because others below him were worse. Marcellas only established one strong relationship...Janelle and he blew that. He should've stayed strong with her and established himself as part of that alliance with other BB6ers but instead just had Janelle. Marcellas could of done much better with BB6 because if James defected....Marcellas would've been a low target for the Floaters. Now he is out there with no one and is aligned with Danielle who stabbed him in the back before.
7. Janelle...only higher than Howie because Janelle at least has some kinda relationship with Chilltown. Howie is on his own.
8. Howie must start working the others to get in with a new alliance...once Janelle is gone he is gone next. The BB6ers came on too strong and obvisious as an alliance and Howie going nuts celebrating the HoH's was not smart.
9. George. George is by himself and only votes the way others want him too. His usefulness will wear off in the final 4. No chance to win whatsoever....even George realizes this and wants out. He blew it after his great speech when he was up against Will before he took himself off the block with the POV.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by television on 08-15-06 at 03:49 PM
To answer your question, no Will has never won HOH. In fact, in BB2 he made it clear to his fellow contestants that he planned on NOT winning any competitions, which was one of the reasons they never took him seriously, because he could be put up at any time, and seemingly didn't take the game seriously (why these current guests don't remember that is beyond me). The brilliance of that strategy should be obvious, in that it never, ever makes him a target based on things he's done in the past in a position of power, because he's never in a position of power. But he always is in a position to subtly point out things about other houseguests that brings out the petty, vindictive side of those that are in power, thus making the target every week anyone but him. His early suggestion in this game to get rid of the floaters was not only to divert attention from him as a target, but it also shifted the target to the only people in the house who were thinking relatively freely (and thus might nominate him), outside a "rally round the flag" type alliance. He's now surrounded by so many shields in his various alliances (James & Danielle, Boogie & Erika, Janelle & Howie) that he doesn't need to win any competitions. And it makes the viewer wonder how many competitions he could have won, had he tried. He's building up his mystique, and playing games with the houseguests, the viewers, the host and the producers. It's absolutely brilliant.
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by marius on 08-15-06 at 07:07 PM
Raise your hand if you were in the game and would have put Will up any time you got HOH.Now do you really think all these people are that stupid?Or are you really that naive to think that reality tv is actually reality?
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by AyaK on 08-16-06 at 12:15 PM
Now do you really think all these people are that stupid?

They went on BB twice, didn't they?

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by kingfish on 08-15-06 at 07:59 PM
Yep.

Will is the best reality player. Ever. Anywhere.

Shakes was right (Dammit)

Shakes is an #####. (no, originally that wasn't a bunch of #s)

And the world's spinning dance around the sun continues.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Wacko Jacko on 08-16-06 at 12:11 PM
Some say Will and Boogie have to vote out Erika or else they have proven to not be loyal to the BB6 alliance....and have been snowing them all along. At this point, he could do what he wants. If Janelle and Howie don't try to stick with CT they have no one. At this point Howie and Janelle need CT more than CT needs them.

Assuming Marcellas goes home tomorrow. You have:

Howie/Janelle, Will/Boogie/Erika, Daniella/James, and Chicken George. With most everyone gunning for Janelle. Janelle is so darn stupid that she don't realize that Marcellas leaving is a good thing. And why would she nominate anyone at this point that she feels she has an alliance with whether a 'pawn' or not. You don't want to cross them. Maybe it was not possible but if Marcellas realized that he was in good with Janelle maybe he would of looked to target otehr people...if he were smart. All this shows how in control of the game Will is.

"Conning women"
Posted by AyaK on 08-28-06 at 00:45 AM
I hate to bring this thread back, since shakes' ego is so big he won't even admit how wrong he was about Howie.

But....

I have never seen anyone con women as effectively as Will. He conned Janelle into putting up Marcellas. He double-crossed Janelle by booting Howie, and then conned her into joining up with CT (at CT's convenience). And he now appears to have conned Erika into putting up Dani, her only ally left in the house (and the only remaining threat to Will).

His comments to Boogie indicate that his plans now are to get rid of Erika and Janelle next, so that CT can get into the final three with CG, where they'd be prohibitive favorites to win HoH in an endurance contest (and thus avoid having to split the prize money with either of the women). Of course, they'll feel like idiots, but so what? He'll have used them and humiliated them before they're booted.

This is one of the all-time great performances in reality TV. If he succeeds in pulling this off, he really will have proven that he is the greatest ever.

"RE: Conning women"
Posted by Bob Tomato on 08-28-06 at 01:18 AM
It is truly something isn't it? Will never needs to win hoH because he has been the de facto HoH every single week this season. It does not matter who holds the key to the cushy bedroom, Will makes their nominations for them and guides their backup plan if and when some other player wins PoV.

His greatest risk is the next eviction (the second Thursday eviction). If this playes out within 45 minjtes or so on live TV, Will will not have the chance to direct nominations like he usually does and may fall victim to every HoH's initial impulse (eliminate ChillTown).

More likely, the compressed Thursday show will play out over a 24 hour period and be made to llok live. In that event, Will will do OK. But this is the week where the GPIBBH (Greatest Player In Big Brother History) could go down because he did not get the chance to play his game.

"But..."
Posted by AyaK on 08-28-06 at 10:37 AM
If Dani is evicted, then the only peeps eligible to play for HoH are CT, the deceived Janie and CG.

If Janie wins, she'll put up Erika as one of the two candidates, and Erika will go unless she wins PoV. Since Janie will never put up Will, worst case scenario has CG and Boogie as the nominess if Erika wins veto, with Will and Erika both voting to eliminate CG.

If Will wins, he'll put up Erika and CG, and Erika's still gone unless she wins PoV. If she does, he'll put up Janie and backdoor her (Boogie and Erika will both vote to eliminate her).

I'm presuming Boogie will be under instructions not to try for HoH until Erika's gone. That way, Boogie won't have to put up Erika.

What are CG's chances of winning HoH and putting up both Will and Boogie? I wouldn't think they're very good, even though he did it once.

If this had been LAST week, with Erika as HoH, it would have been exciting, and CT may well have been broken up. But this week will be tame.

"RE: But..."
Posted by Lasann on 08-28-06 at 11:03 AM
I'm still holding faith that Janelle will put up Will and Boggie. She's said so in Diary. One comes off, Erica goes up.

She may be bored enough to save Will for her distraction but I think she'll put at least one of them up.

At the worst it will be Erica and Boogie.

She should keep Erica for the end because she would win it all with Erica beside her.

But if she doesn't win HOH Thursday she could be toast!


It a Tribe original!!!

"RE: But..."
Posted by true on 08-28-06 at 11:15 AM
Odds are very good that Jani wins the next HOH since her only competition is CT, who throw everything and control Jani (?or do they?), and CG, who is in no real danger of going.

I think Jani has to put up Erika and Boogie if she wins, and if either win POV she has to put Will up in their place. If she does it that way, she and CG contol who goes, not CT. The only way it would get screwed up for her is if Will wins veto (not likely, since I think he's trying to go winless) and takes off Boogie. Then CT would have to choose between Erika and CG. If that happens, it's also possible that CT could split the vote letting Jani send Erika home.

"RE: But..."
Posted by AyaK on 08-28-06 at 12:30 PM
>and if either win POV she has to put Will up in their place.

Isn't believing that Janelle will nominate Will the equivalent of believing in the tooth fairy?

"RE: But..."
Posted by true on 08-28-06 at 01:37 PM
Well, I didn't say that I think she will do it, I said she has to do it. In other words, if she wants to win, that is what she SHOULD do.
"RE: But..."
Posted by AZ_Leo on 08-28-06 at 01:59 PM
Will may be trying to go winless in competitions but he isn't stupid. If he ever felt he was really in danger I think he would go all out to win POV or even HOH. If he knows that there won't be time to work his magic between the nominations and eviction on Thursday he may not want to take any chances and go for the POV, depending on who is on the block. If he thinks he has time, then he won't.


A tribephyl original

"RE: But..."
Posted by television on 08-28-06 at 04:28 PM
I was wondering about that, when I was thinking about his endgame. You really only have to win two competitions in this game to get all the power in the house, and that's final 4 POV and final 3 HoH. I really think that it would be insane for him not to try for those, as those would give him the only votes (unless in the competitions the final 2 were him and Boogie, who he could trust). "Throwing" a competition and taking a chance on what Janelle's, Erika's, or CG's vote would be would be silly, as the only one who probably wouldn't vote him out in F4 would be Janie (F3 is another matter). But I really think we're going to see him try to win those, as it would be ridiculous not to, if he were in danger.
"RE: But..."
Posted by AyaK on 08-28-06 at 04:35 PM
Will told Boogie a week ago (before the James boot) that he was going to win Final 3 HoH and break his winless streak in HoHs, just to prove he could do it. He said that he thought it would be an endurance challenge, and no one in the house had any idea just how much endurance he actually has.

He also said then that it would be easier to win Final 3 HoH against CG than against anyone else, so he'd like CT to keep CG to final 3.

"RE: Conning women"
Posted by nailbone on 08-28-06 at 10:45 AM
...since shakes' ego is so big he won't even admit how wrong he was about Howie.

Or James v. Janelle.


Holey carp! My blog! MySpace!
Official OT Tassel Adjuster and OT Fantasy Football Champ! o-

"Playing on a different level"
Posted by michel on 08-28-06 at 05:56 PM
I've only watched BB last season and there wasn't much strategy involved really since players were practically wearing colored jerseys to differentiate the alliances and Howie showed he was color blind!

In Survivor, we have seen players doing well in tricking others: Hatch, Tina and Brian for sure. Chris in Vanuatu back-stabbed Julie and Eliza and still got their votes. Rob C. booted Roger, Deena, Alex and Christy in succession. Danni messed with Rafe's mind. Cirie arranged complicated booting schemes to get rid of Courtney and Shane.

None of those compare to Will's gameplay.

Will not only manipulates women, he's done it to the men also. He's a chess player who went first after another chess player, Kayser, and told him to put him up. It was the equivalent of sacrificing his Queen. Kaysar knew about gambits and he refused it even if he should've taken it. All his other offers to be put up were other Queen sacrifices except, by that time, he had set up his own game so that accepting the sacrifice was going to cost the other player the game.

He didn't know what to make of Howie so here he only sacrificed a pawn: An offer to watch out for each other in the food comp. Howie quickly went against Will, earning himself an expiration date.

Will wasn't sure what to make of James so that led to the LOD. James walked right into the trap.

His game has changed now that the end is close. He isn't proposing to be put up anymore except when CG was HOH. We all saw what that did to the chicken man! Will doesn't ask to be saved by the HOH, and that is the key I think. He offers the other players means and opportunities to help their games, obscuring the fact it helps his more. They aren't prepared for his convoluted ideas so they figure they are better than the ones they had and they follow them.

The way he convinced Erika to put up Danielle is incredible. As soon as he saw Erika wasn't buying that Danielle was planning to put her up, he changed approach and made her realize Danielle was unbeatable in front of the jury. Checkmate!

"Disagree in small part"
Posted by AyaK on 08-28-06 at 06:28 PM
>Will wasn't sure what to make of James so that led
>to the LOD. James walked right into the trap.

Will knew exactly what to make of James. He was sure James wouldn't turn on him.

It was Dani that he had to worry about.

Will said that he thought there was some kind of understanding between Dani, James and Erika, and he needed to use Janie to get rid of them (by showmancing her) before they could turn on him in the final five. And now we know that he was right (with the hidden Dani-Erika pact) -- but it didn't matter because Erika was so weak-minded that Will could manipulate her into betraying her alliance with a completely phony showmance between Erika and Boogie.

Bros versus Hos, indeed. Even the Legion of Janelle should see which group she belongs in.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Savahnna on 08-28-06 at 03:16 PM
What kills me is that I think if Janelle "scumbagged" or "backdoored" or plain out stabbed Will in the back.......he'd be totally turned on.

Brilliant.....probably.....but he's playing from a totally differnt planet. I don't think he has an ounce of conscience in his soul left

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by nailbone on 08-28-06 at 03:20 PM
I don't think he has an ounce of conscience in his soul left

Ya know, I think if he backdoored Janie or Booger, he would feel bad.

He'd still cash that check as soon as he hit the door, but he'd feel bad.


Holey carp! My blog! MySpace!
Official OT Tassel Adjuster and OT Fantasy Football Champ! o-

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Savahnna on 08-28-06 at 03:51 PM
>I don't think he has
>an ounce of conscience in
>his soul left

>Ya know, I think if he
>backdoored Janie or Booger, he
>would feel bad.


lol.....maybe.....but on his planet.....and everyone else's that "feeling bad" time wouldn't amount of time wouldn't amount to much more than a minute.


"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by AyaK on 08-28-06 at 04:27 PM
Ya know, I think if he backdoored Janie or Booger, he would feel bad.

He's PLANNING on backdooring Janelle if needed and booting her before final 3, so I don't think he'd feel too bad.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 08-30-06 at 02:53 PM
It's too late to backdoor Janelle. At this point in the game everyone plays for veto so her destiny is in her own hands. If by "backdoor" you mean "turn on her" then yeah, he's been planning on that for quite a while.

It's just my way of thinking that if you play for veto, then you can't be backdoored.


Handcrafted by RollDdice, yo.
MySpace

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Icancook75 on 08-28-06 at 04:31 PM
i don't think conscience is a part of it.

I think the difference between Will and all the others who cry all the time is that he realizes that this is A GAME.

Seems like most players (and most people on here) do not get that. It's a game, and you won't win it by being honest to everyone.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by AyaK on 08-28-06 at 04:39 PM
But... normally in this game, if you double-cross your allies, you pay the ultimate price -- you get booted.

Not Will. He could sell refrigerators to Eskimos. So far, he's double-crossed Kaysar, Howie, James and Dani. He still plans to double-cross Erika and Janelle. And he's pulled it off brilliantly; no one except Dani is targeting him, and he just got her booted.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Savahnna on 08-28-06 at 04:53 PM
>i don't think conscience is a
>part of it.
>
>I think the difference between Will
>and all the others who
>cry all the time is
>that he realizes that this
>is A GAME.
>
Seems like most players (and most
>people on here) do not
>get that. It's a
>game, and you won't win
>it by being honest to
>everyone.


I'm not sure where to start.....i don't think conscience is a
>part of it. You're right on one account....it's not a part of Will's world. His behavior is pretty darn close to what we know as the "psychopath"...minus the violence. Charming, calculating.....AND....admittedly...he's got a girl back home he's supposedly crazy about..yet he'll go through all the actions that would get anyone else's rear dumped....(shower scene...ect)....but he'll get the $$ and the girl in the end.....

think the difference between Will
>and all the others .........lack of conscience ??


Seems like most players (and most
>people on here) do not
>get that. I'm pretty sure we all "get it"....but come on...there's a stretch from winning by not being completely honest and Will's manipulation

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by yamihooked on 08-28-06 at 05:19 PM
>i don't think conscience is a part of it.
>
>I think the difference between Will and all the others who
>cry all the time is that he realizes that this
>is A GAME.
>
>Seems like most players (and most people on here) do not
>get that. It's a game, and you won't win
>it by being honest to everyone.

True, this is a game. However, it's not called "Best Liar Wins". It's merely that the best liars often manage to get the farthest.

There's a lot of real life to this. Employers lie to their employees so that they get an advantage. People don't quit quite as quickly if the company doesn't admit to closing offices until just before the employees will find out another way.

Companies lie to their employees whenever they need in order to accomplish their goals. Employees lie to the employers as well. Customers and sellers lie to each other, or order to accomplish their goals.

Doesn't make it right.

Because it's a game wouldn't mean I'd lie to someone while playing Battleship, for example. Ha! you missed my battleship! Or Risk, if you don't attack me now, I'll promise not to attack you next turn. Oops, sorry, I can't attack anyone else even though I promised.

It's just a game. Being a game doesn't mean dishonesty is acceptable, or hurts any less, especially when the lies are about someone in order to get votes.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by AZ_Leo on 08-29-06 at 00:36 AM
I think what sets Will apart is that he is completely honest about lying, manipulating and backstabbing. He has never pretended either to himself, the audience, or to the other players that he is doing anything other than what he needs to win and to take Boogie with him to the Final 2. Even when he was saying he wanted to leave, no one believed him and most knew it was just a ploy. I think even Jani realizes on some level that she is being played and she will be dumped. In a somewhat twisted and bizarre way he is the most trustworthy player in the house.


A tribephyl original

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Issis257 on 08-29-06 at 04:26 AM
I agree with you----HOWEVER I think he does like Janeelle on some level, Boogie said it to Erka, and what about all the hand rubbing under the sheets on Sunday?
Am I being naive????
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by geg6 on 08-29-06 at 09:28 AM
Um, yes, you are.

He may like her personally or even be attracted to her. That has nothing to do with how he'll play the game. And, just as he's been with everyone else in the house, he has been up front with Janelle about how he plays the game. If she is stupid enough to fall for his garbage (as she so obviously is), then she is even more stupid than I thought she was last year.

There are only two people Will cares about at all in the house, one way or the other, and they are Boogie and himself. Himself, most of all.

As it should be. It's a fvcking game and he is the master.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by abbahammer on 08-30-06 at 12:34 PM
LAST EDITED ON 08-30-06 AT 12:35 PM (EST)

I find it rather funny how over and over people say that he is a psychopath or has no conscience. This is a reality TV show/game that pays the winner $500,000. Why would real world apply here? Broken promises are part of most of these alliance style games.

Will's primary success is in manipulation, not lying. He has successfully manipulated pretty much everyone in the house. Why is that? Liar or not? He is smarter than the rest of the house. He is also a realist.

The only one not buying the lies is Chicken George, mainly, because he's older, but, he's never really been in a position of power. Will targets those with power and puts thoughts in their head that they stew on. He got Janelle to put up Marcellus, Erika to put up Danielle, managed to get James Booted, Howie Booted, came up with the strategy to boot out floaters.

Even if Will doesn't win. He's still the best. Who was the first Survivor All star to get booted? Tina! She was one of the million dollar winners. Hatch wasn't too far behind. I know, different game, but, Will has successfully kept the target off his back. All the while, maintaining friendships in the house.

Abbahammer

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Issis257 on 08-30-06 at 02:11 PM
Totally agree with you Abbahammer, if he winds up in the final 2 it matters not who he is sitting next to, he should win it!
Th guy is a genius. Period.
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Glass on 09-01-06 at 01:16 AM
One thing about Will is that's extremely creative and resourceful as well. He knows how to play his game, and when things go wrong he creates opportunities and takes them every time and gets away with it.

It doesn't matter who he supports, he sees the entire game before it's played. And everybody knows it and it doesn't even matter. Is HOH going to put up Will and Boogie? Nope, don't think so. And even if they did it's too late. And I think Boogie could be the only one Erika can beat anyway if it's possible.


"Why don't we have a Legion Of Will?"
Posted by Estee on 09-01-06 at 08:24 AM
Because after witnessing last night's four-minute sonnet of deception, I'm ready to join. I've never hated Will (or Janelle) and I've always admired this strategic abilities, but I love watching a good con game unfold from the outside, and he just managed to run Three-Card Monte with nothing left in the deck.

If he wins this thing for a second time, he's the greatest strategist in the genre. Period.


"RE: Why don't we have a Legion Of Will?"
Posted by Bebo on 09-01-06 at 08:32 AM
This is SO scary. I was just coming here to post an LOW message.


"RE: Why don't we have a Legion Of Will?"
Posted by AyaK on 09-01-06 at 05:12 PM
We do have a Legion of Will, and shakes is the chairman.

As I posted before, if shakes was the "chessmaster" during LC, then Will is the chess grandmaster.

"RE: Why don't we have a Legion Of Will?"
Posted by Chez on 09-05-06 at 12:23 PM

>
>As I posted before, if shakes
>was the "chessmaster" during LC,
>then Will is the chess
>grandmaster.


Sorry - what is LC?

"RE: Why don't we have a Legion Of Will?"
Posted by chappi66 on 09-05-06 at 12:34 PM
love cruise. Shakes was on Reality show called Love Cruise
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Captain_Savem on 09-06-06 at 11:33 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-06-06 AT 11:34 AM (EST)

Janelle: Will always said that he was the fox and I was the bunny. Who's the bunny now BITCH?!

BEST.LINE.EVAH!!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!


Handcrafted by RollDdice, yo.
MySpace

"The best EVER...IN SEQUESTER!!!"
Posted by nailbone on 09-06-06 at 11:47 AM
The King is dead...long live the Queen!!!


Holey carp! My blog! MySpace!
Official OT Tassel Adjuster and OT Fantasy Football Champ! o-
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by maryellennaco on 09-06-06 at 12:05 PM
He may be the best player ever, but he ain't gettin' no $$$ this go-round. Oh well... Carp happens.
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Wacko Jacko on 09-06-06 at 01:39 PM
He wasn't the best this time. Purposely tanking the last POV was his undoing.
"then who?"
Posted by shakes the clown on 09-06-06 at 01:57 PM
>He wasn't the best this time.
> Purposely tanking the last
>POV was his undoing.


..who played better? Better come up with someone who has played a mistake free game since all you have on Will is one lousy mistake.

"RE: then who?"
Posted by nailbone on 09-06-06 at 03:25 PM
I'd have to say anyone not in the sequester house played better.


Holey carp! My blog! MySpace!
Official OT Tassel Adjuster and OT Fantasy Football Champ! o-
"RE: then who?"
Posted by television on 09-07-06 at 01:30 AM
That's ludicrous. Reality TV isn't a meritocracy, it's a combination of skill and, often in the endgame, luck. Will was unlucky that those girls had that conversation when they did, the day before Janelle had to vote someone out when she had all the power, otherwise he'd be taking home the money. Saying anyone not in the sequester house outplayed Will is like saying (survivor reference here) Matt or Jenna Morasca outplayed Rob Cesternino. Anyone left in the house is there because Will took them there, and they're lucky that they had a moment of clarity after 65 or so days. If you control everything for 64 days and then on the last day you screw up and you're gone, you're still gone, but you're obviously the best player.
"RE: then who?"
Posted by JoshInSGV on 09-07-06 at 03:15 AM
I don't think anyone is denying that Will dominated the game. But, he did fail to step up his game when he needed it the most. Will is not sitting in sequester just because Erika and Janelle shared a few minutes of "girl talk" (although that was part of it and Erika and Janelle deserve all the credit for that). Will is sitting in sequester partly because he failed to secure his immunity with the POV. He was responsible for his own eviction, just like everyone else's that went before him.
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by seahorse on 09-06-06 at 12:13 PM
Will finally made a mistake. He assumed he was safe no matter who won POV. He said so in the diary room before he was evicted. He should have tried to win the POV and should have spent as much time as he could have with Janelle to prevent Erica from spilling the beans.


Slice & Dice Sigpic Chop Shop 2005

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by shakes the clown on 09-06-06 at 12:35 PM
>Will finally made a mistake.

yep, Will finally made ONE mistake in this game, whereas the usual allotment of mistakes per contestant is somewhere in the neighborhood of 15, 25 if you're Janelle.


However, the real reason he lost was because Erika won the POV last week and George went home. And as Ayak said, Boogie messed up by not continuing his showmance with Erika, thereby giving her the incentive and determination to team up with Janelle.

As I said throughout this thread, Will didn't need to win this game to continue his legacy as the greatest player in reality tv history. Just by making it as far as he did and virtually controlling the entire game for every eviction except his own cements his status as tghe greatest of all time.

It took a scorned woman (erika) and an inept sidekick to bring him down.

plus, I believe that if he wasn't serious about his gf outside the house he would still be in the game as he wouldn't have had to hold back in his flirtmance, thereby giving janelle the opportunity to doubt him.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Elaine0 on 09-06-06 at 12:49 PM
Shakes I agree with you that Will is the best player ever in BB history. He is able to take emotion out of the game, which most people cannot. More importantly, he always remembers it is just a game.

But despite the circumstances, from now on he will be remembered as the one taken down by the buxom blonde.


As a long time Will fan, but also a strong Jani fan, I am happy she did it.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Wacko Jacko on 09-06-06 at 01:41 PM
>>Will finally made a mistake.
>
>
>
>yep, Will finally made ONE mistake
>in this game, whereas the
>usual allotment of mistakes per
>contestant is somewhere in the
>neighborhood of 15, 25 if
>you're Janelle.
>
>
>However, the real reason he lost
>was because Erika won the
>POV last week and George
>went home. And as
>Ayak said, Boogie messed up
>by not continuing his showmance
>with Erika, thereby giving her
>the incentive and determination to
>team up with Janelle.
>
>As I said throughout this thread,
>Will didn't need to win
>this game to continue his
>legacy as the greatest player
>in reality tv history.
>Just by making it as
>far as he did and
>virtually controlling the entire game
>for every eviction except his
>own cements his status as
>tghe greatest of all time.
>
>
>It took a scorned woman (erika)
>and an inept sidekick to
>bring him down.
>
>plus, I believe that if he
>wasn't serious about his gf
>outside the house he would
>still be in the game
>as he wouldn't have had
>to hold back in his
>flirtmance, thereby giving janelle the
>opportunity to doubt him.


Yes, but this one was fatal. Cost him the game

"so what"
Posted by shakes the clown on 09-06-06 at 01:59 PM
>Yes, but this one was fatal.
> Cost him the game
>


Every mistake in this game is eventually fatal so what's your point? Name one mistake that someone made that eventually didn't lead or help lead to their eviction?

Your really not making a case against Will, you need to come up with something better than that.

"RE: so what"
Posted by QueenB615 on 09-06-06 at 02:05 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-06-06 AT 02:05 PM (EST)

Now you are contradicting yourself there, Shakes.

You just said that Janelle has made at least 25 mistakes. Yet, she is still in the game. So her mistakes have NOT led her to eviction yet. In fact, I bet her mistakes will lead her to WIN the game.

So what is it Shakes? Keep on going in cirlces...........

"RE: so what"
Posted by rjrabbit on 09-06-06 at 09:48 PM
"So what is it Shakes? Keep on going in cirlces..........."

You have figured out the clown. Good job!


Fembots
by Tribe: L.O.J., One for all, all for Janelle!

"RE: so what"
Posted by shakes the clown on 09-07-06 at 01:22 PM
>Now you are contradicting yourself there,
>Shakes.
>
>You just said that Janelle has
>made at least 25 mistakes.
>Yet, she is still in
>the game. So her mistakes
>have NOT led her to
>eviction yet.


...key word, yet.


How stupid and short sighted do you have to be to say that her mistakes havne't hurt her because she is still in the game.

"And Yet"
Posted by alwaysintruble1 on 09-07-06 at 05:33 PM
And yet she's still in the house.

And yet she's outlasted all but two people so far.

And yet she's once again made it to the final three of her season.

And yet she's got a pretty good chance of winning the whole thing.

And yet you say that her mistakes have hurt her in this game?

I'd dying to hear this explaination, but I'm sure I'll just be called stupid because there isn't any good explaination to give unless she loses.


If we are what we eat, I'm fast, cheap and easy.

"RE: And Yet"
Posted by shakes the clown on 09-08-06 at 11:33 AM
you were saying?
"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by yamihooked on 09-06-06 at 02:01 PM
So Will, the greatest playa ever, was beaten by Erika.

Let me get this straight. Boogie isn't in Will's league, and he played Erika for weeks. Yet Erika took Will down fatally just when she needed to do so.

If Will is so great, how could Erika beat him so badly?

Clowny continues to twist in the wind as he denies reality.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by Chez on 09-06-06 at 02:08 PM

>
>Clowny continues to twist in the
>wind as he denies reality.
>


ewww- sounds like a Stephen King image....

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by LadyT on 09-06-06 at 05:16 PM
Nope. The fact that Will got as far as he did shows us that he is the best ever. Remember Survivor? Who were the first ones off? The previous winners. Will made it to the final four and manipulated his way there. Booger, his partner didn't follow through. Booger should have said before that he would take Erika to the end and he never did.

Will will always be the best ever. Even when Janelle wins

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by JoshInSGV on 09-07-06 at 00:14 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-07-06 AT 00:14 AM (EST)

>>Will finally made a mistake.
>
>
>
>yep, Will finally made ONE mistake
>in this game, whereas the
>usual allotment of mistakes per
>contestant is somewhere in the
>neighborhood of 15, 25 if
>you're Janelle.
>

Even if you believe that Will only made ONE mistake (I actually think it was several mistakes one after another that lead to this outcome), it was a mistake that cost him the entire game. What's the point of playing a nearly perfect game if you don't even make it to Final 2.

Janelle may have made several blunders during the entire course of the game, but she was able to improve her gamemanship when it mattered the most. Will failed to do that. He did not secure the veto when he admitted in the diary room that winning the veto was even more important than being HOH. And after failing to win the veto, he didn't stick close to Janelle to prevent Erika from working her. He went through great lengths to make sure Erika didn't speak to Danielle when she was about to be evicted. He even slept in the HOH room with Erika to prevent any communication with Dani. He failed to do that with Janelle. No matter how you slice it, Will dropped the ball.

"Will inducted in Reality Hall of Fame"
Posted by KScott on 09-06-06 at 03:31 PM
So is this what really heppened Season 2? I wish I would have seen it.

http://www.realitytvhalloffame.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=4&article=article1031.art&page=1


"RE: Will inducted in Reality Hall of Fame"
Posted by Issis257 on 09-06-06 at 04:03 PM
KScott I watched BB2 and since then always thought Will was just the best player and that is the main reason I couldn't wait for this season. He's a genius in my eyes.
"RE: Will inducted in Reality Hall of Fame"
Posted by bdemoney on 09-06-06 at 05:32 PM
I thought this article was really interesting...

It definitely makes the point that Will is the best player to EVER play Big Brother, and even though I may like other players better on a personal level, I would have to agree...

Here is a link to the entire article: http://www.realitynewsonline.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=1&article=article6419.art&page=1

Here are some interesting highlights from the article:

-Will Kirby is the best Big Brother player ever. Period. He controlled the game in his first visit, five years ago, and controlled it again for almost the entire time this season. Almost. What happened to cause Will to lose control of the game and be evicted? Why did Will lose?

-Will came into Big Brother: All-Stars with a huge target on his back. By all rights, he should have been gone within the first few weeks, tops. But against the odds, Will hung on and took control, planning and executing one eviction after another....

-And that is a perfect description of what Will did – he pointed people in other directions. It was kind of like a magician – don’t look at the hand doing the work, look over here instead.

-Will shall remain the best Big Brother player ever. Even the person who beats him this time – whether it’s Mike, Janelle, or Erika – cannot take that title from him. But even experts make mistakes. Will’s mistakes were small, but became magnified when Erika latched onto them as a way to save herself.


"RE: Will inducted in Reality Hall of Fame"
Posted by yamihooked on 09-06-06 at 05:38 PM
>Will’s mistakes were small, but became magnified when Erika latched onto them as a way to save herself.

But isn't that basically what Will did? He latched onto mistakes others made in order to save himself?

"RE: Will inducted in Reality Hall of Fame"
Posted by nailbone on 09-06-06 at 06:18 PM
OK, did Shakes write that article? Cuz it's almost word-for-word what he's been saying.


Holey carp! My blog! MySpace!
Official OT Tassel Adjuster and OT Fantasy Football Champ! o-
"RE: Will inducted in Reality Hall of Fame"
Posted by bdemoney on 09-06-06 at 06:51 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-06-06 AT 06:55 PM (EST)

Too funny, Nailbone. Cuz that's exactly what I thought after reading it. I even checked to see the name of the guy who wrote it, but it was David something-or-other, not Michael.

Pen name? (hee, hee)

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by foonermints on 09-06-06 at 09:16 PM
They don't really help.


but they make you smile in a funny way.

"RE: Will showing why he is the best EVER!"
Posted by DivineWine on 09-06-06 at 09:40 PM
Shakes, no matter how many ways you try to say Will is the best player ever.......Janie played him when the time was perfect. In my opinion, she is the best ever. Who has EVER won so many HOH's & POV's in one season? Now THAT takes talent clownman. Ya just can't admit a beautiful, smart woman brought the almighty Willy down.
"RE: Didn't Will predict?"
Posted by annabananna on 09-06-06 at 09:39 PM
First, I'll admit I'm a Will fan and really believe he is the best ever BB contestant, so why is he in sequester?

Does anybody else remember Will predicting a Boogie & Erica final? I've wondered why Will didn't even try to stay in the house this week. I know this is a stretch, but what if this was his plan all along? He and Boogie have been playing the game together all summer and they've already agreed to split the money. With Will going into the sequester house now, he has time to sway jury votes to Boogie. And who does Boogie want to be up against in the final 2? It's got to be Erica. He doesn't have any chance at all against Janelle.

Maybe I'm dreaming, but could this be the real plan, or at least plan B? The only thing that doesn't ring true for this plan is Boogie's reaction. I think he is really upset about Will leaving. Could he be this good of an actor?

"RE: Didn't Will predict?"
Posted by MandyM on 09-06-06 at 09:58 PM
I am totally a Janelle fan. But, I was a Will fan first and I have to say he is the ALL TIME best player in a reality tv show EVER.

That being said, although I would be okay with this being his "plan B", I don't think so. I don't think he ever had any intention of bowing out at three. Once he got that far, he wanted to win (and he could have...he is just that good).

Remember that old Kenny Rogers song "You gotta know when to hold them, know when to fold them"? He knew he had to fold (for real life purposes). In my mind, he is still and will always be THE.BEST.REALITY.GAME.SHOW.PLAYER.EVER!!!! But Shakes, dude...I don't get why the Janelle and Dr. Delicious love has to be mutually exclusive? Those truly are my two faves in the game! In my world, they can both peacefully co-exist. Stop hating! LOL!


MM Crush on Michael on Love Cruise since 2001. ACK! Help me!!!!

Cool Tune!


"RE: Didn't Will predict?"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 09-07-06 at 10:35 AM
Hi Mandy!

I have mutual love for Will and Janelle too.

*smooch*

"RE: Didn't Will predict?"
Posted by yamihooked on 09-06-06 at 10:34 PM
What would the point be to bow out and let Boogie and Erika go to F2? If he and Boogie go to F2, they were going to split the money without risk of worrying about votes.

Bowing out in order to work on the jury seems like a poor second choice, especially when Will supposedly doesn't want to go to the jury house because he's worried about the others there.

Kind of difficult to sway the jury if you're afraid for your health.

"RE: Didn't Will predict?"
Posted by annabananna on 09-07-06 at 09:32 AM
Dr. Will afraid for his health? Really this is absurd. The truth is everybody in the sequester house, except maybe Howie, has to admire the Dr's game. I'm sure they now realized they were played by the puppetmaster and have nobody to blame but themselves. Will is "afraid" of the sequester HG is the same as him saying he wanted out of the house early. It's just gameplay. Will is smart enough to know he has to work just as hard at manipulating the sequester HG as he did in the BB house.

And the reason he needed to bow out now is to work the jury votes. Even Dr. Delicious needs a bit of time to bring them around to vote for Boogie over Erica. That's assuming Janelle is in sequester with all the rest of the cast-off hampsters. And we now know she will not be HOH. Erica is not the smartest HG, but even if she wins HOH she would be the Ivette of All Stars if she takes Janelle to the F2.

"RE: Didn't Will predict?"
Posted by nailbone on 09-07-06 at 10:25 AM
Since we're down to the Final 3, no one else goes to sequester, right?


Holey carp! My blog! MySpace!
Official OT Tassel Adjuster and OT Fantasy Football Champ! o-
"RE: Didn't Will predict?"
Posted by bdemoney on 09-07-06 at 10:45 AM
Nope, Nailbone, whoever is evicted tonight will go to sequester with the other hamsters. So that we'll be left with only two people in the house.

Don't you remember the excitement of being left with only Alison and Jun in the house? Or how about the riveting action of Ivette and Maggie?

But this season it looks like we might be stuck seeing Erika and Boogie making out with one another......which absolutely makes my stomach turn!

Oh, why couldn't it have been a final two of Janelle and Will!?!

"RE: Didn't Will predict?"
Posted by nailbone on 09-07-06 at 10:48 AM
Don't you remember the excitement of being left with only Alison and Jun in the house? Or how about the riveting action of Ivette and Maggie?

Well, I've tried to block that from my memory. Thanks for reviving the nightmares.

But this season it looks like we might be stuck seeing Erika and Boogie making out with one another......which absolutely makes my stomach turn!

Ick. More nightmares.




Holey carp! My blog! MySpace!
Official OT Tassel Adjuster and OT Fantasy Football Champ! o-

"RE: Didn't Will predict?"
Posted by yamihooked on 09-07-06 at 07:45 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-07-06 AT 07:48 PM (EST)

Hey, all I know is I read that Will didn't want to go to the jury house because he was concerned about the other jury members.

I did say "supposedly", to indicate that I didn't claim it as fact.

Remember Boogie was a bit afraid of Howie when Howie was evicted, and they had the same amount of protection there.

You still didn't respond to my point, that working the jury as opposed to being in the F2 seems like a poor second choice.

Will would have been better off making it to the final 2 against ANYONE than getting sent out in order to try his persuasion skills.

"DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by shakes the clown on 09-07-06 at 01:33 PM
I love this argument that keeps popping up that goes like this..."if will played such a great game why did he lose?"

I guess you people have never watched sports or for that matter, other reality shows before. Anyone who has ever watched a sporting event or even Survivor knows that sometimes, the best player on the field isn't on the winning team. Everyone here wants to look only at results as opposed to looking at the totality of the entire game. If being responsible for someone getting evicted is equal to scoring a touchdown, then Will had about 12 TD's.

When a player has about 200 yards rushing, 5 TD's, but then fumbles late in the 4th quarter you don't suddenly decide that he didn't have a great game.

According to your logic, Emmitt Smith was a better running back than Barry Sanders.


People need to realize that alot more goes into playing a game than just the final score.


So don't take the simple fact that I think Shakes is godlike to mean that I think he isn't an ass. -Samiam 10/12/04

"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by true on 09-07-06 at 01:48 PM
I agree 100%. Will is the best of.all.time. He got out of more jams this season using the same tactics he used to win his first season. Sure, his competition was a bunch of brain dead losers, but they still should have known better. Also, as if the fact that he lasted so long wasn't enough, what's even more amazing is that he made it that far with Boogie strapped around his neck. Boogie would be NOTHING in that game without Will, and if he should win, it'll really be Will's victory, because despite Boogie's inept play, Will got him to the end.
"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by Captain_Savem on 09-07-06 at 01:49 PM
I love this argument that keeps popping up that goes like this..."if will played such a great game why did he lose?"

Who in the hell said that?! Cuz if someone did, you're right, that is a pretty dumb arguement, but not the dumbest. You saying Janelle not being one of the best BB players of all time is dumber than that. Just sayin.


Handcrafted by RollDdice, yo.
MySpace

"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by shakes the clown on 09-07-06 at 02:54 PM
>Who in the hell said that?!
>Cuz if someone did, you're
>right, that is a pretty
>dumb arguement,


...are you blind Savem? Go look through any thread here and you'll find several comments that look like this "if will is so great why is he sitting is sequester right now."

"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by nailbone on 09-07-06 at 03:27 PM
I know *I* never said that.


Holey carp! My blog! MySpace!
Official OT Tassel Adjuster and OT Fantasy Football Champ! o-
"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by shakes the clown on 09-07-06 at 03:51 PM
I know *I* never said
>that.
>

...I didn't want to rat you out by name Boner, but thanks for doing it anyway. :-p

"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by yamihooked on 09-07-06 at 07:52 PM
The point is still valid though.

The greatest player is deemed by who wins, isn't it? Playing chess against someone, and executing the most amazing and unexpected moves against the other player means nothing if he checkmates you.

Your sports metaphor is meaningless because this isn't a team sport. On a team sport, you can lose but still have your team win. In this game, everyone is an individual.

Sure, you can claim Boogie and Will are a team, and both split the money in the end, but if Boogie wins the money, HE is the winner rather than Will. It's still an individual game, not a team sport.

"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by television on 09-07-06 at 09:44 PM
"The greatest player is deemed by who wins, isn't it?"

Newsflash: he already won, so the argument that he's not great because he didn't win is immediately invalid.

Those people knew he had already won, which makes staying in the house exponentially more difficult because this game is and always has been about revenge... and he cruised through the game, carrying the most obvious and tight alliance in the house to the final four, without ever really being threatened. The endgame is tricky, and he set it up in the way that could serve him best, and because he lost a competition and left the decision in the hands of one person who suddenly realized she had all the power for that moment, he got evicted. I don't think you can argue about these kinds of things in these kinds of shows once it gets to the end, because alot of it had to do with luck and the heightened rewards to individual power that come with dwindling numbers. In season 2, if any of the other 2 guests had won HOH in the final 4, Will was gone, if they had a POV competition, he was gone... if anyone did anything differently, in theory, they could be gone at a different time. This argument is pointless, so I'll stop.

"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by JoshInSGV on 09-08-06 at 01:36 AM
No one said (well...at least I didn't) that Will isn't a great player. He dominated the house for 95% of the season. But, his strategy failed him. He didn't care to win the veto competition, when it was crucial for him to do so. He even said it in the diary room. He knew that if Janelle or Erika won the POV, he would automatically be put on the block. That's a stupid risk to take, when he could have tried to secure his immunity with the POV.
"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by yamihooked on 09-08-06 at 02:01 AM
I didn't say he's not great. I was disagreeing with Clowny's statements.

Yes, Will is a great player at this game. I said he didn't win THIS game because he's out of the house, regardless that his good friend is in F2. Clowny doesn't want to admit it, that his favorite player lost. He's still scrounging for ways to deny it.

My favorite was evicted. I never claimed Janelle was the greatest player evah! though, and I don't mind admitting that I'm disappointed that she lost.

"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by shakes the clown on 09-08-06 at 11:42 AM
>I didn't say he's not great.
> I was disagreeing with
>Clowny's statements.


...that's not the point. Everyone knows he's great. The point is that there are several people here including you who refuse to admit he is the greatest player ever. Did you not see the title of the thread?


>
> Clowny doesn't want to
>admit it, that his favorite
>player lost. He's still
>scrounging for ways to deny
>it.


...huh? I won't admit that he lost BB7? Please support that ridiculous statement with some documentation please.


>My favorite was evicted. I
>never claimed Janelle was the
>greatest player evah! though


...why would you? Its impossible to make a logical coherent argument that she's the greatest player ever so why would you even bother? Of course, I do believe that you and several others have either stated outright or insinuated that she is a better player than Will and that is also completely ludicrous and impossible to support with any coherent argument.


Seriously, you either need to brush up on your 7th grade reading comprehension level or stop posting.

"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by marius on 09-07-06 at 09:42 PM
>I love this argument that keeps
>popping up that goes like
>this..."if will played such a
>great game why did he
>lose?"
>
>I guess you people have never
>watched sports or for that
>matter, other reality shows before.
> Anyone who has ever
>watched a sporting event or
>even Survivor knows that sometimes,
>the best player on the
>field isn't on the winning
>team. Everyone here wants
>to look only at results
>as opposed to looking at
>the totality of the entire
>game. If being responsible
>for someone getting evicted is
>equal to scoring a touchdown,
>then Will had about 12
>TD's.
>
>When a player has about 200
>yards rushing, 5 TD's, but
>then fumbles late in the
>4th quarter you don't suddenly
>decide that he didn't have
>a great game.
>
>According to your logic, Emmitt Smith
>was a better running back
>than Barry Sanders.
>
>
>People need to realize that alot
>more goes into playing a
>game than just the final
>score.
>
>
>
>
>So don't take the simple
>fact that I think Shakes
>is godlike to mean that
>I think he isn't an
>ass. -Samiam 10/12/04

Why do we play the game? We play to win.
You may watch sports,but maybe you dont fully understand what you're seeing.How can you say that the leading rusher in all of history isnt the greatest?Barry may have been the best pure runner i have ever seen,but there's alot more to that position.Kobe Bryant can score 50 on any given night and his team will still get spanked.Will was just one of the more entertaining guest,and by far the easiest one for the wanna-be intellectuals to get behind.Fact is,the best players were never really the targets until the very end.He never had to win any comps to save himself or to position himself.Everyone knew he was full of it but just chose not to go after him in hopes to further themselves.When the time came,he was gone.More often than not,the flashy most exciting player isnt the best player.

"DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. OF. ALL. TIME."
Posted by shakes the clown on 09-08-06 at 01:05 AM
>How can you say that
>the leading rusher in all
>of history isnt the greatest?Barry
>may have been the best
>pure runner i have ever
>seen,but there's alot more to
>that position.

okay, first of all, go introduce yourself to that big long blank thing on your keyboard. Its called a spacebar.

Second of all, you just lost all credibility for all time with what is easily the dumbest comment of all time. Let's not even touch the fact that you totally contradict yourself when, on one hand you say that the leading rusher is necessarily the greatest running back and then in the very next sentence you say that there is alot more to being a running back than running????? You really have to be clueless to write something that blatant and not realize it before you hit that "post" button.

Now, lets look at the logic. According to you, the following running backs are all worse than Emmitt Smith...

Barry Sanders
Jim Brown
Walter Payton
OJ Simpson
Eric Dickerson
Gale Sayers

Did you ever notice how whenever experts put together lists of the top 5 RB's of alltime Emmitt Smith is NEVER on anyone's list.


You really have to be completely ignorant to believe that the result is the sole determining factor in the question of greatness.


Kobe Bryant can score
>50 on any given night
>and his team will still
>get spanked.


...uhm genius, Kobe Bryant has 3 rings. And took a team of nobodies to the playoffs. But since he didn't win the whole thing his season was a complete failure according to you.


Will was just one
>of the more entertaining guest,and
>by far the easiest one
>for the wanna-be intellectuals to
>get behind.

...like people who can't use a space bar?

And oh yeah, go ask the jury if Will's only effect on the game was to be "one of the more entertaining guests". James alone would probably smack you for being so stupid.

Fact is,the best players
>were never really the targets
>until the very end.


..hmm, and why do you suppose that was? Could it be because Will came up with a genius plan to switch the target from him to a group of people who didn't even exist until he invented them, the so-called floaters. Or did you miss that part of the game?


He
>never had to win any
>comps to save himself or
>to position himself.


....thanks for helping me make my point about how great he was at this game. Let's see how far Janelle or just about anyone else in the game could get with that strategy.

Everyone knew he
>was full of it but
>just chose not to go
>after him in hopes to
>further themselves.

...okay, that sentence makes no sense.

When the time came,he
>was gone.


...when the time came? You mean, after he had already engineered the ouster of every other person in the house.

More often than not,the
>flashy most exciting player isnt
>the best player.


..okay, that sentence also makes no sense. Flashy BB players??? Huh? What the heck is that?


"RE: DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. OF. ALL. TIME."
Posted by yamihooked on 09-08-06 at 11:02 AM
Clowny, you aren't making sense again.

He said "Barry may have been the best pure runner". He went on to say that being the best rusher involves more than merely running.

Your reading comprehension skills are as bad as your arguments themselves.

Honestly, I hope you don't do trial law.

"you just keep getting dumber"
Posted by shakes the clown on 09-08-06 at 11:48 AM
>Clowny, you aren't making sense again.
>
>
>He said "Barry may have been
>the best pure runner".
>He went on to say
>that being the best rusher
>involves more than merely running.
>
>
>Your reading comprehension skills are as
>bad as your arguments themselves.


...do you even read english? He CLEARLY said that Emmitt was the greatest running back of all time BECAUSE he is the alltime leading rusher. Therefore, OBVIOUSLY he is saying that there is NOT more to being a great running back than just running the ball. He is CLEARLY saying that most rushing yards = greatest running back of all time.

And then he goes on to say that Barry isn't the greatest running back of alltime BECAUSE there is more to being a running back than just running.

And yet, you accuse ME of of not having reading comp skills? Funny.


>
>
>Honestly, I hope you don't do
>trial law.


...huh, I thought I wasn't even a practicing attorney? Of course, we both know you've been to the website and have seen the stats. 90% success rate at trial ain't too shabby. And the couple that I've lost were all very early in my career, including my first ever Work Comp trial.


"RE: you just keep getting dumber"
Posted by yamihooked on 09-08-06 at 06:25 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-08-06 AT 06:27 PM (EST)

No, Clowny, you are still wrong.

He said :
>According to your logic, Emmitt Smith
>was a better running back
>than Barry Sanders.

He didn't say :
>He CLEARLY said that Emmitt was the greatest running back of
>all time BECAUSE he is the alltime leading rusher.

You now say:
>...huh, I thought I wasn't even a practicing attorney? Of
>course, we both know you've been to the website and have seen
>the stats. 90% success rate at trial ain't too shabby. And the
>couple that I've lost were all very early in my career,
>including my first ever Work Comp trial.

I've been to your site that you linked to advertise while you bash people here. (Amazing. I still think that's pretty stupid.)

However, I haven't bothered looking at your stats. Honestly, you aren't that important. The world does not revolve around you.

My belief that you aren't currently a practicing attorney is based on the fact that you spend so much time posting here, and could afford to spend time on a reality show. You haven't given me any reason to believe that you are now spending any kind of time actually practicing law as opposed to acting like a child on boards.

A 90% success rate on personal injury lawsuits doesn't mean anything necessarily. You are quite possibly the type of attorney that chases ambulances and takes the cases where you are almost guaranteed to win, with the client only paying a few if you win.

I'm just astonished that you admit to having failed ANY cases, but those early ones must have been before you figured out how to skip cases you might not win.

I have a weird feeling, just a feeling, that you got your job through a friend of your father's. Maybe your family is part owners of the law firm. Otherwise the partners would ask you to stop giving a bad image for them.

I can just see it now. The partners find out you're flaming people on boards again while giving out the company's web site. They just look at each other and sadly shake their heads while waiting for the day that they can cut you without offending your daddy.

"RE: you just keep getting dumber"
Posted by Buggy on 09-09-06 at 09:31 AM
You just keep arguing with him.
Strange how you answer his every post, obsessed maybe?

I can see it, Shakes is a jerk, but he's still pretty cute.

"RE: DUMBEST. COMMENT. EVER. OF. ALL. TIME."
Posted by marius on 09-14-06 at 11:23 PM
It's so easy to get one of the "wanna bes" going,all you have to do is challenge thier intelligence.Actually i never said Emmitt was the best,i said how can you say he is not the best if he is the record holder,just looking for a reaction.Fact is, that Emmitt was a more well rounded player than Barry,and i loved Barry,if he hadn't retired he would no doubt be the record holder.By the way,that should have been your first argument,but then you can't see past the surface.
"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by Bob Tomato on 09-08-06 at 11:16 AM
It's also a dumb argument in this respect -- Will has not finished playing the game yet. He could not get himself to the final 2 this time, but he did get his partner there (hard to deny Boogie would not be where he is without Will's support).

Will is now doing that thing he does, only in the sequester house this time, directing the jury in Boogie's favour. If and when Boogie wins, it will largely be Will's doing, both before and after his eviction.


"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by annabananna on 09-08-06 at 11:52 AM
My hat's off to you Mr. Tomato! You seem to be one of the few people who realize Will is still in the game. Just because he can't personally be awarded the big $$$ doesn't mean he is not still working that jury. I'm not a gambler, but I'd bet on Boogie winning it all just because Will's still pulling their strings.
"RE: DUMBEST. ARGUMENT. EVER."
Posted by JoshInSGV on 09-08-06 at 06:04 PM
We could argue this issue forever, but the fact is that we don't get to see what happens in sequesterville. It's possible that Will is working the jury in Boogie's favor. It's possible for the jury to be dumb enough to fall for Will's manipulation and give Boogie the final prize. My theory is that Will doesn't need to do any of that because Boogie happens to be sitting next to Erika. If Boogie were at the end next to Janelle, Dani, or even James, I can see the need for Will to manipulate the jury in Boogie's favor. I think all of them realize that Boogie played better than Erika, even if it was just by being associated with Will. The only players that are secure votes for Erika are the bitter ones: Marcellas & Howie. Chicken George may also vote for Erika because he always sided with the women of the house. That's just three votes. All the others will vote for Boogie.
"Props for this Thread"
Posted by Savahnna on 09-10-06 at 12:27 PM
I just wanted to give Shakes props for the most active thead in this forum since I've been around. Doesn't matter how I feel about the topic But the thread definately deserves props!