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"Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Flowerpower on 05-08-09 at 07:39 AM
Thanks to Survivor Fever!








































Well, at long last the vidcaps from the recrap are undisputedly here...looks like the bootee choices are now Erinn vs. Coach...this should be an easy week!

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by michel on 05-08-09 at 09:33 AM
Thanks for bringing these over FP. Here is the transcript also from Survivor Fever:

"Jeff Probst: Next time on Survivor...

Stephen <in confessional>: Erinn really can't control what she says.

Jeff Probst: Erinn loses ground with her new alliance.

Stephen: I just thought it was just like so tasteless.

Erinn <talking to Taj>: I'd hate for anything I said to make me go home before Coach.

Coach: DragonSlayer gets a dragon cane.

Jeff Probst: And Coach digs deep to stay in the game.

Coach: Hit me with your best shot Pat Benatar.

Coach <in endurance challenge>: Owwwwwwwwwwwww."

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 05-08-09 at 06:00 PM
http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor/video/video.php?cid=994965733&pid=eCSCd6oGRvtycV3mS4w7jgk2W6LUbMkv&play=true

video from CBS: the Dragonslayer goes down! "Down Goes Coach"

Ben's alleged injury (thus the cane when he returns)
endurance challenge is where he slips and falls.

Erinn says the title quote.

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by SquidProQuo on 05-08-09 at 06:11 PM
I love Taj's comment.

Well, this certainly ties in with the reports that he came home with a limp and a cane. Wonder if he's faking or not -- Stephen says he feels sorry for him.

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by kingfish on 05-08-09 at 06:42 PM
The episode title makers were kind to Coach. It more aptly should have been called "Tales of the Warrior Wuss"

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by SquidProQuo on 05-09-09 at 09:02 AM
So it looks like everyone rushes around Coach when he falls. I'm trying to figure out the timing -- would people actually leave their spots to help him if the challenge isn't over yet? Would be interesting if some people jumped down to help him and some didn't....would they redo the challenge?

Also, it seems like Erinn's tasteless remark is probably about Coach (being a martyr, etc.). Steven, JT and Coach appear to be having an all-boys pow wow about it. Of course it could just be JT/S sucking up to Coach to get his jury vote.

Last question: Do we know for sure this challenge is immunity (and not reward)?

"Press Images"
Posted by Flowerpower on 05-09-09 at 09:05 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-09 AT 09:24 AM (EST)

From Survivor Fever, the press images:












Looking at their body images here...I think that this challenge would favor the lightest in weight...especially Erinn. But, if you look at the girls, they are using their arms in more fatiguing way, girls tend not to have as much upper body strength, and they have their elbows higher and Erinn has her arms up...they could fatigue them quicker. Jt has the best upper body alignment with his arms more down...imo.

But, with all of this, I would'nt be surprised to see one of the girls win this, what was the order of the last endurance challenge...stephen out first, then Taj, then JT, I remember Coach laughed that it was all Timbira left...Tyson won, Debbie finished in second place, did Erinn go before or after Coach?

Which is the IC...According to Survivor Phoenix, the RC, "Blind to Reason" is some sort of maize that spells out the word, Survivor, while the IC, "Chimney Sweep" is the endurance challenge.

"RE: Press Images"
Posted by michel on 05-09-09 at 09:19 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-09 AT 09:39 AM (EST)

In the pole challenge, Erinn left after Taj and Brendan but before JT. The last 4 were Coach, Sierra, Debbie and Tyson.

I think it was in Fiji that they had the same challenge set-up and Yau Man won it.

ETA: It was in Fiji:

From Snidget's play-by-play in the ECST, Stacey stayed up long enough to come in 3rd. Boo, who wasn't light, finished 2nd.

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/6724.shtml#22

"Full Promo Vid caps"
Posted by Flowerpower on 05-09-09 at 09:59 AM
Thanks, michel...yes, I think this challenge would favor the smaller weighted, and smaller footed person...Erinn, but don't know if she can do it, she doesn't seem to have strength at all. From the insider videos, I recall the time she walked into the water at the beginning of the show, and she just fell over (right in front of Debbie and Sierra)....she's a serious lightweight. So, while this would favor her, I don't believe she will win it...TOTAL speculation on my part.

Thanks to Survivor Phoenix for the wonderful vidcaps of the full promo...








































































































So I found these to be interesting, note Erinn's position here...


Then these particular vidcaps...First we have Taj, Stephen, and ERINN...

Then we have Stephen/Coach/JT...

Is there anything that can be drawn from these orders?

Then after Coach falls, we see that he is placed on the bench and that there is someone else with him on the bench...clearly, it is either JT or Stephen, who must be already out of the challenge...


"RE: Full Promo Vid caps"
Posted by CTgirl on 05-09-09 at 12:59 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-09 AT 01:00 PM (EST)

Looks like it could be Steven - headband looks about the same. This could be when he says that he feels bad for Coach.

ETA: Could Coach actually QUIT? And then spin it around in his head that he really wasn't going to be voted out next, but had to leave because of an injury??!!

"RE: Full Promo Vid caps"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 05-09-09 at 04:14 PM
FWIW, here's the post from Corvis when he posted a weight loss spoiler for Coach pre-game:

So it appears we have a weight loss spoiler for one Survivor according to a poster at survivor.com.

Ben Wade returned in December looking emaciated and using a walking stick.

With Coach, anything's certainly possible (and he's capable of pulling it off), but that would be rather extreme to come home and still carry around a walking stick or cane because of a fake injury. I brought this picture over to show that he looks more or less the same as he does in the show at the moment.


Stinky Musings <--- blog's been updated!

"RE: Full Promo Vid caps"
Posted by michel on 05-09-09 at 08:55 PM

>Could Coach actually QUIT?
> And then spin it
>around in his head that
>he really wasn't going to
>be voted out next, but
>had to leave because of
>an injury??!!

Wow! This puts another spin on what JT said at Tribal: “Anyone that has stayed here, that has put himself on the line, has been honest and has never told a lie, deserves to go as far as his body can stand.”

Maybe that was what gave him the idea.


"RE: Full Promo Vid caps"
Posted by frisky on 05-09-09 at 10:44 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-09 AT 10:45 PM (EST)

Ooops...piggybacked on FP in error. Rookie mistake.

"RE: Press Images"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 05-09-09 at 10:03 AM
I would think that Erinn and Coach would be best suited to this challenge, but I agree with Flowerpower that Erinn's arm position with her elbows up doesn't look like a stance that would work well over time.

I hate to even bring this up, because it sures seems like this is (finally!) Coach's exit episode, but could it be possible that Coach wins this challenge (and then falls afterwards)? Would that explain Erinn's harsh words to him, because she might think she's on the chopping block next if Coach wins immunity?

Also, in some of the last shots with Coach and his cane in the 1st promo, it kinda looks to me like the "sand dunes" are behind him. Could Coach be the one sent to Exile this week?

"RE: Press Images"
Posted by Belle Book on 05-09-09 at 11:47 AM
Possible, but I think it's more likely that he just can't handle it anymore and collapses with a (genuine) leg injury.

Belle Book

"RE: Press Images"
Posted by LFJ on 05-09-09 at 04:12 PM
From some of the pix it looks like Erinn is shifting her weight from one side to the other. Her feet are probably best suited to this challenge, as they are small, and she doesn't need much strength to support her tiny upper body. Maybe she wins this challenge, and Coach's injury, real or not, is a moot point (save for the ensuing drama, of course). Who else would they vote out?

This is a great way for Coach to "save face". He won't have to disembowel himself, afterall.

"RE: Press Images"
Posted by citywitch on 05-09-09 at 05:54 PM
Erinn winning immunity could offer an explanation as to why she might feel comfortable enough to say disturbing things. On the other hand, JT/Stephen may just be feigning sympathy towards Coach with an eye to his jury vote.
"And the winner is..."
Posted by frisky on 05-09-09 at 10:46 PM
I know who wins the endurance challenge. Here's how I know.

After Coach falls, and he is laying in a crumpled heap at the foot of the challenge platform, Taj, JT and Stephen are helping him.

How would they do this if any of them were still in the challenge?

Then as we see them helping Coach walk away from the scene of the accident, Erinn is in the frame.

Ahhh...they're ALL there. So the challenge is over. We know Stephen and JT are out of it, because in the above photo, they both have their water bottles with them, which they would only have access to on the loser bench.

So that means only Taj and/or Erinn could have been still up there with Coach when he injured himself and fell. But they're both there, so the challenge must have ended at the point when Coach fell, meaning only he and one other person was still in the running when he went down.

Notice they are barefoot in the challenge:

And JT, Stephen and Taj are still barefoot when Coach falls:

And Coach is barefoot:

So who is in this shoe?

Hmm. Everybody is barefoot. Who belongs to this extra foot?

When you look back at the previous clips of Coach on the ground while everyone surrounds him, you notice the shoe person hanging back a bit. The person is standing on the other side of Stephen. You can see the shoe if you look just under his right thigh. In fact, if you look at this sequence of pics, you can see that the person doesn't get there very quickly. Everyone is there, and the shoe is just sort of slowly, indifferently approaching the scene:






Here is a pic of Erin's shoe from further up in this thread. Notice the colour, and the "grille" in the front of the shoe, like the grille on a car:

And the shoe in question:

Conclusion, the shoe, and henceforth, the foot, belong to Erinn.

So let us summarize:

Coach is straining to keep his hold in the challenge.

Something in his foot goes *SNAP*.

He falls to the ground. It's a bad fall, because he not only falls from the challenge, but he falls from the platform to the ground, alarming his four tribemates, who rush to his side. Erinn is wearing her shoes, since she was already out of the challenge prior to the fall.

JT and Stephen grabbed water bottles for Coach before they rushed to his side, since they were both already out of the challenge prior to the fall.

That's a lot of people on the ground with Coach when he fell! That leaves Taj. Taj could have also been out of the challenge, but if she were, why the heck would Coach be up there still grimacing and trying to hang on? If she had just fallen herself, and he was the winner, a) there wouldn't be such a look of determination on his face to fight against the pain, and b) Erinn wouldn't be flicking her fingernails out one-by-one and talking about Coach playing the martyr card if he had immunity and didn't have to play a card at all.

Oh, and it's the immunity challenge, because Jeff parked the necklace on it's little tree stump right in front of them to salivate over while they hang in those boxes:

So, Coach didn't win -- he came in second. Stephen and JT didn't win -- they were sipping water. And Erinn didn't win -- because she had her shoes back on.

It was a stressful day, but finally the winner of the immunity challenge this week managed a little celebratory smile while everyone's backs were turned.

Disclaimer: It has been a long, long time since I have spoiled. If I am wrong, please remember that I am still quite rookie-ish in spite of my DAW age. However, if I am right, I expect your eternal admiration, lvoe, rainbows, puppies and kittens.


Perpetual *headbutt* compliments of Rolly.
Hold the puppies.

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by sica077 on 05-10-09 at 00:13 AM
Wow, you noticed quite the intriguing clues...

That would explain Taj's interestingly feisty confessionals in regard to Coach being a drama queen and belonging in a mental institution (or something to that effect). She isn't usually so vocal about negative things (or she isn't usually edited to be so vocal...but that opens a whole new topic...). Although, to see the challenge and to know the players, I would never guess she would win it. The only other explanation I can think of is that Erinn comes to dislike Coach so much that she will put on and lace up her sneakers before seeing if he is okay .

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by Belle Book on 05-10-09 at 10:25 AM
Yeah, and although Erinn certainly doesn't like Coach at all (and neither do I), I doubt she'd dislike him so much that she'd put on and lace up her sneakers before seeing if he's okay. Even I'd go check on him before putting my shoes on! So, it looks like Taj wins the challenge.

BTW, part of me wants to say, "Poor Coach!" And another part of me wants to cheer that he's going home.

Belle Book

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by michel on 05-10-09 at 11:33 AM
Very nice analysis, Frisky.

However, I do have an alternative interpretation because I have two problems with yours:

1- I do not believe that JT would drop before Coach and Taj. Possible for sure, but I can't see it.

2- You seem to have proven that the endurance is, rightfully, the IC but we know Coach is already looking for a cane on Exile Island. Now, certainly the injury could be faked but Coach isn't Fairplay, he doesn't enjoy letting everyone know that he is telling lies. He would not broadcast it to the world that he is faking. He would want the world, and Jeff, to believe it as much as the other players. So, faked or real, the injury happens before he goes to Exile, well before the IC.

If that is true, then what may have happened is that Coach fell off before the challenge even began. We know that, off camera, Jeff always gives them time to settle in before starting the clock. I think Coach tried to "suck it up" (the martyr approach) but fell off and Jeff called everyone down since the challenge hadn't officially started. As for Erinn's shoe, maybe she felt uncomfortable up there without them so she quickly went to put them on before Jeff called them back for the challenge.

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 05-10-09 at 12:39 PM

>1- I do not believe that
>JT would drop before Coach
>and Taj. Possible for sure,
>but I can't see it.

This is the type of challenge that women or skinny guys have historically done well in. JT isn't a woman or a skinny guy. And he's not as desperate as Coach would be and Taj might be, so I certainly don't have a problem seeing that JT would drop out before these two.


>2- You seem to have proven
>that the endurance is, rightfully,
>the IC but we know
>Coach is already looking for
>a cane on Exile Island.

I'd submit that he made this cane as a lark, as a way to pass time on Exile Island. Maybe he wanted a scripture stick a la Mr. Ecko on LOST. It just came in handy after he got hurt during the IC.


>Now, certainly the injury could
>be faked but Coach isn't
>Fairplay, he doesn't enjoy letting
>everyone know that he is
>telling lies. He would not
>broadcast it to the world
>that he is faking. He
>would want the world, and
>Jeff, to believe it as
>much as the other players.
>So, faked or real, the
>injury happens before he goes
>to Exile, well before the IC.

Then again, I can see Coach as being too proud to admit he's been outplayed, outwitted, outwhatevered so there's that bit in my head thinking that he knows he can't win in the IC and that he's toast in the game, so he embellished his fall so he comes up looking heroic. He likes feeling like a hero and he likes seeming like he's larger than life.


>As for Erinn's shoe, maybe
>she felt uncomfortable up there
>without them so she quickly
>went to put them on
>before Jeff called them back
>for the challenge.

Now that's a complete reach.


Stinky Musings <--- blog's been updated!

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by michel on 05-10-09 at 01:34 PM
The challenge favored skinny guys and skinny women. Cassandra didn't do well in the identical Fiji challenge and Taj didn't do well in the first endurance challenge. I should have simply written that I do not see Taj outlasting JT.

As for the rest, we will have to see but Coach is heard calling his stick a cane, not a scripture stick like Ecko's. I find it hard to believe that Coach first comes up with a cane and later he injures his leg. Don't forget that, according to Frisky's scenario, the fall has to be real even if the injury is faked because it would be down to Coach vs Taj. Coach would feel good about winning the challenge at that point.

In my scenario, the injury could be fake or real but happens before Coach is sent to Exile Island even if some feel sorry for him. He makes himself a cane and then adopts the martyr approach in the IC.

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by LFJ on 05-10-09 at 04:13 PM
Michel,

Are you saying Coach hurts himself sometime before IC, and then martyrs himself by participating in the IC (drama queen extraordinaire) and then fakes a fall before or during the challenge to "save face"?

If so, that sounds like something he would do.

Just so long as he leaves.

Ane meanwhile, Taj is probably as big as JT - not as tall as Stephen. That challenge will be as hard on her as it is on them.

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by michel on 05-10-09 at 04:22 PM
I think he may already be injured although not too badly at this point. At the last TC, JT said that Coach deserves to stay in the game as long as his body can stand which makes me think that Coach has shown signs already.

What I think happens is that it gets worse or he exaggerates his limp before the challenge. When they get on the structure and Jeff asks: "Survivors Ready?" Coach pleads for Jeff to wait, that the pain is too great, that he is suffering and then he falls off before the challenge even starts.

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by frisky on 05-10-09 at 04:32 PM
This is true, but it's my unedumacated opinion that it's more to do with a woman's centre of balance than with size or weight.

Michel, how do we know Coach is at Exile? Sorry, can't watch the CBS videos in my country. Was there something I missed? Can you really tell in the video that he's there, or have we been explicitly told that he is there? Do we know that's where he got the cane? Maybe he did indeed go to Exile, but the scene where he fashioned the cane happens back at camp.

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by michel on 05-10-09 at 05:45 PM
Coach being sent to Exile comes from this vidcap that FP posted in the Title thread:

We see the sand dune in the background and the cane in his hand.


http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/7210.shtml#24

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 05-10-09 at 05:23 PM
Frisky,
I love the way you put these caps together, the only thing is Erinn is barefoot during the challenge.

We need an account of the story that gives Erinn a chance to put her shoes back on.
Your mission, if you choose to accept it ...


"dootdoot dootdootdootdoot dootdoot"
Posted by dabo on 05-10-09 at 06:14 PM
LOL! Alternate scenario then. Ben and Erinn are last two in challenge. Everyone seems to not be taking into account Erinn has a lower center of gravity then the others and doesn't need her upper body strength for anything other than stablization.

Ben falls injured, Erinn remains briefly on the challenge while others go to see to Ben. Ben immobilized, this takes time, much pain, there has to be recovery time. When Jeff indicates Erinn can get down there is no reason for her to join the Ben attendants so she goes to the side, puts on her shoes, waits.

" "
Posted by rachelOH63 on 05-10-09 at 06:21 PM
I agree -- Erinn is out of the IC already and that's why her shoes are on.

I think Erinn says the title phrase at the RC because of her outfit. They are lined up either waiting for the RC to BEGIN, and she's talking about him being hurt already, as Michel says, and running the RC (then he goes to EI and makes the cane) ... or, they are lined up AFTER the RC, and she's making a comment about him going to EI....and being a martyr there.... I don't think it has to do with the IC or immunity or the voting, per se....

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by frisky on 05-10-09 at 11:12 PM
I do. *salutes, poking eye in the process*

As I said above, Taj and Erinn are the only two who could have been vying for immunity with Coach. But Erinn has her shoes on, as evidenced by the caps of Coach writhing on the ground. This means she has already been out of the challenge and it was, indeed, Coach and Taj still in the running.

Now if I can only think of a way to bury those sand dunes.


Perpetual *headbutt* compliments of Rolly.

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by Brownroach on 05-11-09 at 12:17 PM
Coach talked about having lung problems in one of the earlier Insider clips. He's not been doing well physically in general.

I don't see any contradiction with him fashioning the cane at Exile before the IC. He may start playing up that he's getting weak at the beginning of the episode. Maybe he will be feigning a limp and using the cane when he shows up for the IC. All the more excuse for him to not be able to stay up during the challenge.


A tribe glows in Brooklyn

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by Brownroach on 05-11-09 at 12:05 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-11-09 AT 12:31 PM (EST)

There's no reason why Erinn can't be the very first one out. All Frisky is saying is that Erinn, JT, and Stephen, in some order, must be the first three eliminated.

And Sol remarks below that Erinn looks very unsteady. If she dropped out almost immediately she'd have plenty of time to put her shoes on while waiting to see what happens.

I'm totally sold on Frisky's spoilage. Taj wins IC.

ETA: Well, okay, I do see one question-mark.

When Coach is doubled-over on the ground, this is presumably right after he has fallen. If Taj had still been in contention and slipped down moments after Coach fell, shouldn't she be approaching Coach from the direction of the challenge boxes? Instead she is behind Coach, between JT and Stephen. Did she walk around Stephen or JT to assist Coach from behind?

Seems odd. Just something to consider...


A tribe glows in Brooklyn

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by frisky on 05-11-09 at 01:11 PM
I noticed that, too, BR, and I think she did walk around JT. Taj would have had to stay up there in the seconds after Coach fell, or at least until Jeff declared her the winner. I'm assuming that JT and Stephen got to Coach first because of this delay and because of their concern for Coach, and if they went one to each side of Coach, Taj would have to walk around JT to take the empty space at Coach's head. His feet are too close to the platform for her to stand there, so I think she just went to the next best place to comfort him.


Perpetual *headbutt* compliments of Rolly.

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 05-11-09 at 03:13 PM
All kinds of possible reasons for Taj being where she is. She could have hopped down off the platform and walked around gingerly for a moment or two to shake off the cobwebs growing in her feet. She could just wanted to be upwind away from Coach's butt. She could have been blocked by JT as she approached Coach so she went around a bit.

Either way, Frisque's scenario is easily the most plausible one I've seen of any out there, so I see no reason why Taj wouldn't be the winner.


Stinky Musings <--- blog's been updated!

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by Brownroach on 05-11-09 at 04:27 PM
Or she could have crossed to the back by stepping directly on Coach's rib cage.

I hope.


A tribe glows in Brooklyn

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by frisky on 05-11-09 at 10:52 PM
LOL! Of course, we would prefer if she took the time to put her shoes on first.
"Yo...Frisky..."
Posted by Flowerpower on 05-11-09 at 07:25 PM
I have wanted to say this since I first read your speculation....PHENOMENAL!!!! I love it, BRILLIANT deduction and GREAT catch on the shoe....

YOU ROCK!!!!!!!

"RE: Yo...Frisky..."
Posted by frisky on 05-11-09 at 11:00 PM
Awww thanks, FP. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by dabo on 05-13-09 at 00:44 AM
When Coach is doubled-over on the ground, this is presumably right after he has fallen. If Taj had still been in contention and slipped down moments after Coach fell, shouldn't she be approaching Coach from the direction of the challenge boxes? Instead she is behind Coach, between JT and Stephen. Did she walk around Stephen or JT to assist Coach from behind?

Seems odd. Just something to consider...

I actually have been coming back to this for days now, and it finally occured to me we should consider Ben's position on the ground. In the challenge Ben is on the left side of the challenge structure (or right side from his perspective), Taj is directly next to him. His position on the ground isn't directly in front of where he was on the challenge structure, he has fallen on his right side and to his right partially over Taj's position on the structure.

Therefore Taj, if she is still on the structure at that point, has three options, stepping down to her left towards Ben, stepping down to her right away from Ben, stepping down backwards away from Ben.

Stepping down to her left towards Ben is the riskiest and least adviseable option if she wants to avoid worsening his injury, he is that close, so she takes another route allowing JT and Stephen swifter response time.

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by Brownroach on 05-13-09 at 09:44 AM
I emailed TDT a link to Frisky's post, but TDT says JT and Stephen don't obviously have their water bottles when they are first bending over Coach, so it's not certain that they were already out at that point. Though Stephen appears to be on the bench next to Coach later. So JT and Taj both seem like possibilities to win.

But he cites Frisky for noticing Erinn's shoes:
http://truedorktimes.com/survivor_tocantins/spoilers/e12/ic.htm


A tribe glows in Brooklyn

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by rachelOH63 on 05-13-09 at 11:35 AM
I don't think they are sitting on a bench later. I think they are walking -- with Coach hunched over, in pain of course!
"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by byoffer on 05-11-09 at 11:23 AM
I can't get past the smile on Taj's face in all of the post injury shots. Either she is laughing at Coach's injury (possibly but IMO unlikely for the wife of an athlete) or despite the injury she can't control her joy at having won the IC.

I am going to agree with my fellow canuque that Taj wins the IC.

"RE: And the winner is..."
Posted by frisky on 05-11-09 at 01:19 PM
Aw, thanks, By. The only thing that bothers me about the winning smile is that I noticed during the last TC, Taj had a smirque on her face the.entire.time. So maybe she's just a natural smirquer.


Perpetual *headbutt* compliments of Rolly.

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Georjanna on 05-11-09 at 00:17 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-11-09 AT 01:23 AM (EST)

I wonder if perhaps Benjamin's cane, and his fall at the Challenge, weren’t injury-related at all, but rather a symbol and symptom of a general collapse.

Because, whether he played his cumulative maladies (sleep deprivation, muscular degeneration, respiratory distress, etc., etc., etc.) for all they were worth or not, there is no denying that Tocantins turned this man into a physical wreck.

So, I also wonder if this cap is part of the story:



If you roll your mouse over the picture at Survivor Phoenix, it’s captioned “Staring into the void”. But these five people are all very obviously staring at, and reacting to, a common, singular sight. Benjamin appears to be closing his eyes to impending unpleasantness, Erinn seems to be a bit startled by what she sees and curious about it, Taj seems puzzled and wary, J.T. looks resigned and Stephen is already chin-stroking his way through yet another thoughtful analysis of probabilities and possibilities.

And I can’t think of an explanation for all of those expressions other than the arrival of an unannounced visitor (Jeff Probst) and/or visitors (a doctor or medical team) in the camp.

Factor in Benjamin’s insistence in the wake of his firing that the show’s edit would portray him as a heroic figure - and the only way that a loser is 'heroic' is if he is tragically so - and I think that it’s possible that the Dragon Slayer was removed from the Game for medical reasons.

I know that if I was an SEG shareholder, I would certainly have wanted a lawsuit-waiting-to-happen on the Jury - then - rather than on the stand later.

But, I think that the whole martyrdom thing (with Erinn) occurred at the RC when Benjamin offered himself to the Exile gods.

Of course, any resemblance of what I think to what actually happened would be purely - and miraculously - coincidental.

ETA: Like rachelOH63 (I just read your post), I think that Erinn's comments were made at the RC.

G


"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Rayne on 05-11-09 at 08:27 AM
In this picture, you can see the II necklace right above Coach's head. Last week when Stephan won Immunity we were shown him putting the necklace in basically the same spot. For some reason it stood out to me that they were making sure we saw where he put it last week. So perhaps Stephen wins again.
"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by ajglitch on 05-11-09 at 10:04 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-11-09 AT 10:05 AM (EST)

Wow some really good points and catches from this weeks pics. I have some thoughts on the shoe thing and the cane thing that I'd like to share and please be kind as I'm not that experienced with spoilers.

This picture is definately Exile Island and Coach finding a staff that to him represents (looks like) a dragons head. Of course he's delighted to make the discovery considering his deluded self image as a dragon slayer. So we know that Coach does not win reward and is sent to Exile and that the staff (cane)does not indicate an existing injury requiring support but merely a Coach confirmation of his exalted samurai warrior status.(*snort)

This photo to me appears as if the survivors are finding their footing, note the heads down on all but Erinn. So i conclude it is prior to the start of the challenge and not a "during" shot. One thing I find odd is that it appears as though Erinn has one hand on her head which would seem to indicate she's bored or waiting for something to happen. The stance to me indicates total at ease with her perch so that might be saying that this challenge could be right up her alley but the shoe pictures from later don't support her winning the challenge or even lasting past Coach.

Definately Erinn's shoes and the question is "Why does she have them on when no one else does?" Some have theorized that Coach is injured before the challenge starts but I would have to counter that with Erinn's shoes. She would not put them back on until the Coach injury is taken care of knowing that the challenge will start again very soon. Also, she would have to drop down, put on her shoes and return to see what the deal is with Coach which in my mind makes no sense. My thought is that she was one of the first out of the challenge and had put her shoes back on while sitting on loser bench.

This photo puzzles me the most. I believe it is Stephen sitting next to Coach based on the shape of the ear (the way is is squished by his buff) and the shape/contour of the hair. The puzzle is, if Coach got injured at the end of the challenge as appears to be indicated, why would he be sitting on loser bench with someone who is out of the challenge? My thoughts are that this shot is not one of loser bench during challenge at all but just an after challenge shot of the injured Coach being comforted? by Stephen who appears most concerned in the injured shots.

And finally, the shot of the "what the heck is that?" I am looking at Coach's sitting position and wondering "If i injured my foot would i be sitting like that or would i have my leg out?" To me his position does not indicate injury but the presence of the Immunity Necklace above his head definately proves it's post IC and EI.

As Rayne pointed out the IM is in same position as last week where Stephen put it and indicates same person wins. Stephen is definately light enough to win this challenge and to me it's no stretch to imagine he does.

Going on all of this, whew long winded, my thoughts are this:

Whoever wins RC sends Coach to EI where he discovers his confirmation staff.

During the Challenge, Erinn drops first or second and puts on her shoes. The challenge comes down to Coach and Stephen and Coach knowing he's slipping (theory 1) feigns an injury upon losing the challenge or Coach actually does hurt his foot which causes him to lose the challenge to Stephen (theory 2).

The Martyr approach is fulfilled by Coach offering himself as the boot choice due to his injury and he's the next one off to the Ponderosa. This offering of sacrifice will satisfy his deluded sense of honor and allow him to exit gracefully as an undefeated warrior who was injured in the course of battle.

Ok, I'm done.

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by toddE on 05-11-09 at 05:45 PM
All of this really points to Coach getting second, leading to his elimination.

But my hopes are too high. I think I will have to DVR this episode before watching, cause I don't think I can bear to watch if Coach actually survives another week.

And I have a horrible fear that Erinn may go. Hopefully it's a bit of misdirection.


"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 05-11-09 at 10:27 PM
very nice, ajglitch.

Going on your observation that they appear to be looking at someone coming, I wonder if Coach has been removed from the group between here


and here. He is not just out of frame, I think, because the space between Taj and Erinn has widened, and under Erinn's shoe I can see the side edge of the platform, which is where Coach was sitting.

What is JT indicating with his fingers?
Then JT has gotten up ... and it's possible this is nothing more than people sitting and then moving while press photos were being taken.

But maybe Coach is being examined by the med team. Stephen is still looking intently at something, unless that's how he looks when he's thinking.

The immunity necklace stays in camp until the next immunity, so it's always there, but the press photos are generally taken after the IC, as TDT has noted this season.

As in, the press photos aren't just edited footage, but the production sends a certain photographer over to shoot stills out of that segment of the "episode" is how I understood what TDT was saying.

Plus Georjanna's excellent buff work. Erinn could be just pushing her buff up and down, but it fits.

Then as to this photo

TDT thinks this is on the IC loser bench (and Coach brought his staff), because Coach's buff fold is the same for the IC.

It is different sitting in the shelter. Survivor is higher up from the crease.

TDT thinks that the challenge is started, Coach falls, and the challenge resumes, after which Coach is on the bench. I guess he envisions that Jeff lets everyone get down without being counted out of the challenge, but that doesn't explain the water bottles or Erinn's shoes to me.

But if Taj wins when Coach falls, then why would he be on the bench, unless he got helped over there (and we do have a cap from TDT of JT and Stephen holding his hands),

Maybe they sit while Jeff decides what to do.

In all the caps, Erinn's body language is all about caring less what happens to Coach.


http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/User_file
s/4759d0923e5ccdb5.jpg

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Corvis on 05-11-09 at 11:04 AM
Or the shot is from pre-IC for this episode and that's why it's in the same spot that Stephen put it.
"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Brownroach on 05-11-09 at 02:04 PM
In which case it would also have to be from pre-RC since they are all present (no exile yet).


A tribe glows in Brooklyn

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Georjanna on 05-11-09 at 05:14 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-11-09 AT 05:23 PM (EST)

In which case it would also have to be from pre-RC since they are all present (no exile yet).

I agree. But ...

This is the group at the Reward Challenge:

And this is Erinn (presumably) during her confrontation with Benjamin:



And this is Erinn (presumably) during her discussion with Taj in the aftermath:


And in all of them, Erinn's buff is around her head.


This is Erinn at the Immunity Challenge:

And this is the group in camp (with the Immunity Necklace visible):

And in all of them, Erinn's buff is around her neck.

So, it is more probable than not that these caps are from the same timeframe:



And that the timeframe is post-IC, pre-TC.

All of which doesn't prove anything. Erinn could simply have pushed her buff up before the RC. It is very likely that Stephen put the Immunity Necklace back in the same place after the last Tribal Council. And anyone could have put it back in that same place after this week's IC.

But I thought that it might be food for ... thought.

G

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by sol on 05-11-09 at 11:46 AM
There is something that I have wondered about ... the positioning of Erinns arms. They look awkward ... is this a position of strength, or a position trying to deal with muscle pain?

At another time she is seen in this position ...

The second position shows her hips are not centered and balanced - check the angle of her shorts. Since this is not a balanced position it may indicate that Erinn is fatiguing and about to drop out of the challenge. If this is the case she would be first on the bench, and have time to put on her shoes.

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Georjanna on 05-11-09 at 12:02 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-11-09 AT 06:18 PM (EST)

If this cap is pre-RC, why does J.T. have a basket and what is in it?

G

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by byoffer on 05-11-09 at 02:25 PM
Could anyone come that prepared for potentially being sent to Exile? After the days that Erinn spent there (which looked miserable) maybe the remanining players decided to pack a basket of supplies for Exile. Think the producers would allow that?

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Flowerpower on 05-11-09 at 07:48 PM
I have wondered about that basket as well. Could JT plan to go to Exile? It makes me wonder if Coach wins the reward and sends himself to spite the others...they said in the clues that the one that goes to exile somehow polarizes the rest...and we know that Coach indeed goes.

...okay, just thinking outloud here...Coach, certainly is not capable of winning a reward, or is he?

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 05-11-09 at 08:03 PM
He won immunity two episodes ago, so he's certainly capable of winning reward this week.
"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by SquidProQuo on 05-11-09 at 11:02 PM
Coach is smiling in a lot of the Maze action shots...so perhaps he does win and exiles himself.
"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Georjanna on 05-12-09 at 04:17 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-12-09 AT 04:31 AM (EST)

Could anyone come that prepared for potentially being sent to Exile? ... Think the producers would allow that?

I don't know, byoffer. If it was permissible all along, I would think that we'd have seen that sort of preparation before. And if it wasn't, I wouldn't think that we'd see it this late in the Game. But stranger things have happened. And it could be that J.T. put together an Exile kit just in case it would fly.

The alternative is that, just as they gave us two of the Final Four, the producers have given us the winner (or the designated winner) of this week's RC. Because, though I agree with sol that 'the smiles on their faces are consistent with the pre-challenge looks they always have when JP asks, "Wanna know what yer playin' for?"', and with michel that 'at F5, the reward is always bigger than a basket', it's also true that usually the players have placed their baggage on the ground behind them before the line-up shot that we see here is filmed. So, to me, these folks look just as much like they are leaving the RC as they look like they are arriving for it.

Too, doesn't Benjamin's right hand look a bit odd? As though he were holding something mysteriously invisible? And, if you look closely, the basket either has an attachment (with a stap of its own) or J.T. is wearing something else (with a flap like a fanny pack) between the basket and his hip. So, if the basket and its companion piece are indeed components of a larger reward, I wonder if that reward has something to do with the Golden Grass of Tocantins/Jalapăo.

Then, there is the blanket:

I think, although I can't be certain, that the blankets that Jalapao won were all brightly-colored. And those, as well as I remember, were the only ones in the Game until this point. But I have no idea how such a plain blanket might fit in a Reward scheme. It does, though, look a great deal like the one that Erinn (wearing her buff around her neck) is holding in this cap:

However, whether the blanket and the basket are prize or prep doesn't really matter, I guess. Because it is virtually certain that Benjamin went, by choice, to Exile. And, it is very probable that Erinn and Taj went back to camp where they had a woman-to-woman talk about the pitfalls of breaking badass. Leaving J.T. (either because he won the Challenge or because Benjamin tapped him to enjoy it in his absence) and Stephen (I can't think of a time that a Survivor was sent on a Reward alone) to prowl the Highlands.

Note: And, if Benjamin was permitted to choose both his own replacement and the second recipient of the Reward, it might go a long way toward explaining why Taj and Erinn were left alone to "talk way too much".

We also can be virtually certain (because Frisky's argument is very compelling) that Taj wins the Immunity Challenge. And, especially in the absence of any Tribal Council hype to date, the argument that Benjamin either quits the Game or is removed from it for medical reasons is also pretty compelling. And his convenient exit might go a long way toward explaining how Erinn made the Final Four. Because we all know what happened to Spencer the last time that J.T. looked like this:

G


"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 05-12-09 at 02:52 PM
Beautifully argued as usual, Georjanna, but I do think this is the line-up. At the end, the winner will be by JP. Then will choose the exile, who leaves BEFORE the winner picks someone to go along. No second line-up.

I don't read the "talk too much" as an indication that Taj and Erinn are alone at camp. I didn't read it as talking too each other, even, more about people opening their traps when they would do better to shush. But it could be ... do we have any caps that would suggest it?


"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by Georjanna on 05-14-09 at 06:39 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-14-09 AT 09:22 PM (EST)

OFG,

First, alone at camp:

In my post above there are caps of Erinn ...

1. As she (apparently) accuses Benjamin of taking "the martyred approach". The parent audio/video for these caps can be found at Survivor Phoenix. Click on Full (Web) Promo. In the caps, Taj's shoulder is visible to Erinn's left, but there appears to be quite a bit of unoccupied space on either side of Benjamin. Erinn's buff is (as it is in the Press 'line-up' photograph) around her head. And, as he (apparently) replies that her judgment of his motives is "a little harsh", Benjamin is (as he is in the Press 'line-up' photograph) bareheaded.

So, I think that this exchange took place immediately following the RC and that Erinn's remark was a comment on Benjamin's - in the language used in the CBS Press Release - "bizarre approach to Exile Island". And I think that Benjamin's 'martyred/bizarre approach to Exile Island' was a) to volunteer to go to Exile Island - or - b) to send himself to Exile Island. I also think that, because Benjamin seems to be standing apart from the group (as the RC's winner would be) the latter is more likely than the former.

Therefore, I think that Benjamin was not at Forza for some period of time following the RC. In fact, if Benjamin was the Exile, it is most probable that he wasn’t back at camp until after the IC.

And caps of Erinn …

2. As she (apparently) tells Taj that she would 'hate for anything that she said to make her leave before Coach'. In those caps, Erinn’s buff is around her head and the Survivor Logo on Taj’s buff is slightly off-center to the right of her forehead (as they are in the Press 'line-up' photograph) . And the background appears to be the river at Forza. The parent audio/video for these caps can also be found at Survivor Phoenix. Click on Show Preview.

Therefore, I think that Erinn and Taj are at Forza for some period of time following the RC and prior to the IC.

Of course, it is possible that the two were there only until one or both of them left to participate in the Reward (the recipients of the Rafting Reward didn’t leave camp until the morning following the RC). And it is possible (but, given their buff positions, less plausible) that this video was shot after one or both of them returned from the Reward (and prior to the IC). That’s why I keep italicizing think …

And caps of Erinn …

3. At the IC. And there, Erinn’s buff is around her neck (as it is in every one of the Press photos that show her at at Forza with J.T. and/or Stephen and/or Benjamin). The parent audio/video for those caps is (again) the Full (Web) Video at Survivor Phoenix. And Erinn’s buff is also around her neck in the caps of her used to illustrate Stephen’s voiceover “Erinn can’t really control what she says” (in the Show Preview at Survivor Phoenix.

Put another way: there is not one cap or photo (to date) of J.T. and/or Stephen and/or Benjamin at Forza with Erinn when she is wearing her buff on her head or with Taj when the Survivor Logo on her buff is askew to the right (as it is in the videos of her conversation with Erinn and confessional): in the Press Photos of the group in camp the Survivor Logo on her buff is centered above Taj’s forehead.

So, I do think that it is more probable than not that the shots of Erinn when her buff is around her head are RC/Post-RC and that those of her when the buff is around her neck are IC/Post-IC. And that, between the two Challenges – because Benjamin was in Exile and J.T. and Stephen were enjoying a Reward – she and Taj were alone at Forza for some time.

As for J. T.’s disembodied “They talk too much”:

Although I do think that he was most probably referring to Taj and Erinn, I agree with you: I don’t think that the line indicates that the two women were alone at camp. The caps and photos do that. And you are, I think, quite right that there is nothing that ties J. T.’s observation to any particular conversation or persons.

So when – because I think that it would have been uncharacteristically sloppy of Stephen and J. T. to leave potential problems unattended – I wrote ‘Note: And, if Benjamin was permitted to choose both his own replacement and the second recipient of the Reward, it might go a long way toward explaining why Taj and Erinn were left alone to "talk way too much"’, I should have put a period after ‘alone’. Or a ‘smile’ after ‘much’.

And finally, the ‘line-up’:

Because it is my impression that there is almost always a ‘second’ – though less formal – line-up after every Challenge (as the winner stands with JP facing the other participants), I pulled up the CBS site last night to look for an example – or examples – of them in order to bolster an argument that Benjamin's unorthodox behavior might explain his (the Exile's) presence in the one following this week's RC. But I stopped looking past the first few frames of the following Reward Challenges.

Because, it would seem that, at least in this instance, the question is moot: J. T. brought his own personal Exile Survival Basket to every RC after the Merge. And probably – I stopped looking after these four – to every RC before it.

Episode 8
Episode 9
Episode 10
Episode 11

Jeez ...

G

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by sol on 05-11-09 at 07:49 PM
The basket appears to include a blanket. Coach also seems to have a blanket under his arm, and Erinn has a sweater or blanket under her arm. Taj has some kind of bag, as does TJ; while Steven has an extra sweater. It looks like all of them are ready for a night or 2 in exile. Stephen looks the least ready to spend a night, but then, he knows how to make fire.

The smiles on their faces are consistent with the pre-challenge looks they always have when JP aslks, "Wanna know what yer playin' for?"; so it's unlikely that it is some kind of reward.

"RE: Vidcaps, "The Martyr Approach""
Posted by michel on 05-11-09 at 08:15 PM
At F5, the reward is always bigger than a basket.
"Jeff on Jimmy Fallon"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 05-14-09 at 01:14 PM
Haven't seen the Probst Preview yet, but TDT posted this link on Mess - it's Probst on Jimmy Fallon, taking @ tonight's episode:
http://www.nbc.com/late-night-with-jimmy-fallon/video/episodes/#vid=1102801

They show a longer clip (vs. promo) of Coach getting ready to go off to exile. He says that Erin wants to go down in the record book as having the roughest Exile ever, but he's hoping for Exile to be tough on him too. He also says that "My body is thisclose to total disaster." So he's definitely setting up his injury. Taj's eye roll is priceless.

Jeff says Coach is in "rare form" tonigh and it's the "greatest Coach episode ever." No hints on who wins IC.

"RE: Jeff on Jimmy Fallon"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 05-14-09 at 01:15 PM
P.S. It's in the 3rd segment (right after a brief commercial).
"RE: Jeff on Jimmy Fallon"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 05-14-09 at 01:26 PM
Here is the transcript (just of the show clip, not any of Probst's remarks), thanks to Survivor Fever:

Transcript:

Coach: I want it to be tough on me, that's for sure. I'm not going to minimize everybody's experience. I'm disappointed that Erinn would say that. At the beginning of the game she wanted to try to cut me down a little bit. A lot of times when people do that it's to vault themselves over. She wants to leave here with the toughest Exile experience and I don't want to take that away from her. As far as coming back and winning immunity, my body is about this close (gestures his fingers an inch apart) from total disaster. I've got discs on the right side that have ruptured (eyeroll from Taj), I feel my left one is about ready to slip, my asthma is choking me up so bad I can't breath. There's no excuse about if I win immunity or if I don't win immunity. I make no excuses. (JT nods) You can throw stones at me, you can, everybody can, I go like this... give me your bet shot, hit me with your best shot Pat Benatar. It dutton matter to me.

Jeff Probst: Alright, Coach, grab your personal items, head out