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"North Korea"
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moonbaby 17013 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-13, 02:45 PM (EST)
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"North Korea"
Show and bluster from Kim Jong Un or serious intent?

I am hoping it's posturing due to the annual military exercises being carried out in that region, but now that he's moving stuff is he worked up enough to do something stupid?

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: North Korea kingfish 04-04-13 1
 How will Kim Jong Un Respond to dabo 04-04-13 2
 RE: North Korea Estee 04-04-13 3
   RE: North Korea cahaya 04-04-13 5
 It's up to China universityofkentuckyrocks 04-04-13 4
   RE: It's up to China cahaya 04-04-13 6
       RE: It's up to China kingfish 04-05-13 7
           RE: It's up to China cahaya 04-05-13 8
               RE: It's up to China HobbsofMI 04-05-13 9
                   RE: It's up to China kingfish 04-05-13 10
                       RE: It's up to China cahaya 04-07-13 17
               RE: It's up to China kingfish 04-05-13 12
                   RE: It's up to China cahaya 04-05-13 13
   RE: It's up to China Starshine 04-07-13 18
       Apocalypse Now foonermints 04-08-13 19
           RE: Apocalypse Now Starshine 04-08-13 20
               RE: Apocalypse Now foonermints 04-08-13 22
       RE: It's up to China kingfish 04-08-13 21
 RE: North Korea PepeLePew13 04-05-13 11
   RE: North Korea Snidget 04-05-13 14
       I miss kingfish 04-05-13 15
           Me Too! foonermints 04-05-13 16
 North Korea tells foreigners to lea... Colonel Zoidberg 04-09-13 23
   So.. foonermints 04-10-13 24
       RE: So.. kingfish 04-10-13 25
           *Looks Down* foonermints 04-10-13 28
       RE: So.. Colonel Zoidberg 04-10-13 26
           Ain't nuthin' wrong with THAT foonermints 04-10-13 29
 Red Alert! dabo 04-10-13 27
   RE: Red Alert! foonermints 04-10-13 30
 RE: North Korea SOAR64 04-10-13 31

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-13, 04:29 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: North Korea"
I kinda hate how war-like this sounds, but if we detect that they are setting up for a nuclear launch and we don't do a preemptive strike, someone in our government should be whipped. Severely. Then skinned alive.

I know there are dire consequences for making that kind of attack, and dealing with China in the aftermath would be near the top of the list, but the consequences of letting them launch would be so much worse, and we would probably have to strike anyway after they launched, only then we would have to deal with one or more S. Korean and/or Japanese cities wiped out.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-13, 07:56 PM (EST)
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2. "How will Kim Jong Un Respond to"
Anonymous hacks N. Korea's Twitter, Flickr accounts?
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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-13, 10:19 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: North Korea"
I'd be more worried about his being stupid enough to do something stupid.
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cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-13, 10:35 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: North Korea"
Yeah, it's a rather precarious situation with a single head of state who is in power through a linage not unlike previous century's monarchies, with his ability to lead clearly not one of the criteria for his holding the highest office in his land.

Bump him off and who's left? A leaderless rank and file with the capability of doing irreparable harm.

Or just let it all go in one big blaze of nuclear glory.

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universityofkentuckyrocks 2572 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-13, 10:23 PM (EST)
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4. "It's up to China"
LAST EDITED ON 04-04-13 AT 10:25 PM (EST)

North Korea is frightening me. Do I think that they'll attack the Motherland? No, they don't have the capability, nor do they have the support from their closest allies, China. However, there's a real threat that North Korea will bomb South Korea. To me that is a concern because we'll have to help our friends in need. And if they attack South Korea, they'll target Seoul. That's the last thing the world economy needs. Seoul is one of the most populated cities in the world and their economy is booming. A North Korea strike ends that and it could take a toll on the rest of the world.

The United Nations needs to unite and talk to China first. If we can get China to approve a strike, then I think the world will be a safer place. I say we strike immediately if China approves,they don't even have to help or give us an air force base. If China doesn't approve, then we need to hold off, and hope that North Korea doesn't strike first.

We can't stay out, we're treading dangerous waters right now. This could lead us to a second great depression which in turn could start World War III. It may take ten to 30 years. Then again, nothing may happen. But I'd rather take care of business now than wait. If we procrastinate, bad things may happen like countries blaming other nations for the things that could occur.


ukrocks got a blog!

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cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-13, 10:51 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: It's up to China"
LAST EDITED ON 04-04-13 AT 10:59 PM (EST)

Fact is, if left to conventional (combined with subversive, including tunnel) warfare, the North Koreans far outnumber the South Korean and American troops by at least three to one, if not more, with a fully stocked North Korean army capable of overunning South Korea within weeks or months. The U.S. forces represent less than 10% of the manpower in the peninsula, relying more heavily on supporting assets of the air force and navy.

In any case, it would be a very bloody battle, potentially running into the millions of combatant and civilian casualties, that would sap the entire Korean peninsula, that neither side of the Korean armistice line wishes to see, including China and the U.S., particularly with the unlikely (but still horrifyingly possible) potential for the use of nuclear weapons.

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-13, 09:50 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: It's up to China"
LAST EDITED ON 04-05-13 AT 09:50 AM (EST)

“Based on declassified U.S. and U.N. assessments and independent analyses by military scholars, we can make some educated guesses:” (Quoted line from article below).

The ratio of armed forces is 3/2 in favor of N Korea in all areas, soldiers, armor, weapons, planes, etc.

http://tinyurl.com/Invadeded

That is not enough for an invading force to overcome a dug-in defense. It is usually estimated that an invading force needs to have about a 5/1 advantage. Plus the South is said to have an advantage in quality of weapons, although the North has the advantage in quantity of weapons. We all saw how that played out in Iraq on both occasions.

It very well could be that there would be an unholy slaughter of North Korean forces if they invade S. Korea.

The mountainous terrain in Korea is also an advantage for the south in that invading armor can’t really be effective.

So, IMO, a nuclear tipped missile, even a short range missile, remains the biggest threat, and where the red line should be for the US and S. Korea. And Japan. If a nuclear weapon is detected at a launch site, we have to make a crater of that area. We have estimates of their progress in this area, and some of those estimates include the possibility that they already have a few Nukes but that they haven't figured out how to mate a missile with the bomb. But with our lack of intell, we could be surprised on that score.

If so, if we allow ourselves to be surprised, goodbye Seoul, goodbye Tokyo, Hello Nuclear war.

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cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-13, 10:55 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: It's up to China"
Yeah, my numbers are probably out of date, based on what I read years ago in Jane's and wargames that date back to 2000 or so. Indeed, 3/2 is not enough superiority against an entrenched South Korean army, particularly with the restrictive terrain and very likely U.S. air and naval superiority.
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HobbsofMI 15959 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-13, 11:00 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: It's up to China"
But it is enough to go down in a blaze of glory and take a heck of a lot of civilians in Seoul and other cities in South Korea out.


sig Syren, bouncy by IceCat, bobble head by Tribephyl, and snoglobe by agman

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-13, 12:06 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: It's up to China"
And just think what Iran might be emboldened to do if we become engaged in a shooting war in Korea.
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cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-13, 11:47 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: It's up to China"
Going back to UK Rock's original question about China, the Chinese leadership isn't pleased.

Chinese President Xi Jinping, addressing a forum on the southern island of Hainan, did not name North Korea but said no country "should be allowed to throw a region and even the whole world into chaos for selfish gain".

Stability in Asia, he said, "faces new challenges, as hot spot issues keep emerging and both traditional and non-traditional security threats exist".

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi expressed similar frustration in a statement late on Saturday, relating a telephone conversation with U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.

"We oppose provocative words and actions from any party in the region and do not allow trouble making on China's doorstep," Wang said, according to a ministry statement on its website.

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-13, 12:09 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: It's up to China"
If you have access to Janes you the best guess available. But concerning N. Korea, even with Janes there is a lot of room for guessing.

Also, their estimated stockpile of nerve gas is intimidating.

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cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-13, 02:18 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: It's up to China"
The IISS has a paper addressing the conventional military balance between North Korea and South Korea.

Conclusion

The combination of North Korea’s long economic decline and enhanced US and South Korean military capabilities has diminshed the threat of a North Korean invasion of South Korea. Nonetheless, North Korea retains the ability to inflict heavy casualties and collateral damage, largely through the use of massed artillery. In effect, Pyongyang has more of a threat to devastate Seoul than to seize and hold it. North Korea’s conventional threat is also sufficient to make an allied pre-emptive invasion to overthrow the North Korean regime a highly unattractive option. In theory, US forces could carry out pre-emptive attacks to destroy known North Korean nuclear facilities and missile emplacements, but such attacks could provoke North Korean retaliation and trigger a general conflict.

North Korea cannot invade the South without inviting a fatal counter-attack from the US and South Korea, while Washington and Seoul cannot overthrow the North Korean regime by force or destroy its strategic military assets without risking devastating losses in the process. In this respect, the balance of forces that emerged from the Korean War, and which helped in maintaining the armistice for 50 years, remains in place. None of the principal parties want to fight a war although they are prepared to fight if necessary. In this respect, the balance of forces creates certain vulnerabilities since it places a high premium on carrying out a pre-emptive strike if one side or the other believes that an attack is imminent. The danger is that war will begin out of miscalculation, misperception and escalation, rather than design. As a consequence, reduction of political tensions and conventional confidence-building measures can help to reduce the risk of war.

There's another paper in the Asia-Pacific Journal that pretty much says the same, with more details about how the South Koreans have progressively better equipment (tanks, artillery, aircraft, etc.) than the North Koreans than they did, say, 10 or 20 years ago, with vast increases in defense spending since then.

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Starshine 4934 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-13, 06:47 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: It's up to China"
Regardless of weaponry and relative manpower Seoul is only 31 miles from North Korea, that's 11 million people easily reachable.

The BBC tell me that there will be a small strike with a limited loss of life, North Korea will puff it up, the rest of the world will play it down, and we will wait for the next time...

Trouble is who is running the show in North Korea? I can see young Mr Kim as the figurehead however I strongly suspect that there is a fairly strong military committee very close to his back.

Lovely cheese Mooney

Where are Voice of the Beehive when we need them?


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foonermints 12302 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-13, 01:09 AM (EST)
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19. "Apocalypse Now"
I'm not so disconnected, but I like the flat assesment from the BBC: "a small strike with a limited loss of life".

"Fred", a South Korean guy who emigrated here after the Korean war in the 50's , and a friend and neighbor, had such horror in his life that he can't even talk about it, except to me. Choose a scary guy? I'm not, just empathic.

War is a waste of Human capability.


Tribe: The Wobbly Days..

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Starshine 4934 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-13, 02:34 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: Apocalypse Now"
That was my interpretation of the BBC POV

When I was young all of the "Grown ups" had been bombed and a lot of the men had spent quite a while being shot at. Whilst I was growing up there were quite a lot of terrorist attacks, and one expected to hear of death in the news, so I am probably more blasé about this than I would like.

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foonermints 12302 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-13, 01:33 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Apocalypse Now"
There is no lasting delight in the blood of your enemies. Unless you are uncouth.
Me? I listen to Mozart. Music transcends. As beautiful as it may be, the World is a mess.


Tribe: The Wobbly Days..
ps: There might be some Rolling Stones in there too.

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-13, 10:53 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: It's up to China"
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-13 AT 02:05 PM (EST)


According to interviews with Gov. insiders on the Sunday talk shows, a real danger exists that because S. Korea is still very upset about N. Korea's sinking of a S. Korean ship and killing 46 sailors, and shelling a disputed island and killing a few more S. Koreans, that the new S.K. leadership might be prone to overreact to a missile test (or any other potentially provacative action by the North), thus precipitating a shooting war.

The US does not have final say in how S. Korea responds to actions by the North, and could be drawn in to a full scale action unwillingly.

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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-13, 12:07 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: North Korea"
Makes you long for the stable days of Kim Jong-Il, no?
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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-13, 02:57 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: North Korea"
Who knew we would miss that one, huh?
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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-13, 03:37 PM (EST)
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15. "I miss"
Nikita.
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foonermints 12302 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-13, 09:47 PM (EST)
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16. "Me Too!"

*bangs shoe*
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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-13, 02:34 PM (EST)
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23. "North Korea tells foreigners to leave South Korea."
This doesn't read like preparation for war. This reads more like preparation for a d!ck-waving contest. And if that's the case, Kim Jong Un is in way over his head.

http://news.yahoo.com/nkorea-urges-foreigners-vacate-south-101630995.html

Kim Jong Un is to dictators what Brandon Hantz is to TV characters.

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foonermints 12302 desperate attention whore postings
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04-10-13, 12:50 PM (EST)
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24. "So.."
Are you-all sayin' that them Chinese crazies have small wackers?

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-10-13, 01:17 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: So.."
Small yards, small wackers.
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foonermints 12302 desperate attention whore postings
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04-10-13, 02:01 PM (EST)
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28. "*Looks Down*"
POOP!

foonermints: evil for a day!

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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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04-10-13, 01:40 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: So.."
Brandon, let me take you aside for a moment and explain to you all the things that are wrong with that sentence.

I'm also reminded that Kin Jong Il once told his people to take a dump in their yards in order to help fertilize them. Given the comparison I just made above, I hope Kim Jong Un doesn't learn of this.

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foonermints 12302 desperate attention whore postings
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04-10-13, 02:11 PM (EST)
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29. "Ain't nuthin' wrong with THAT"
Meanin' it all kinda flows in an' out, don't it? It's the natural blalance of things?


Sheeeeit I'da think a lobster be more smarter than that. Don't make me send Duke Nukem after y'all..

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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04-10-13, 01:53 PM (EST)
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27. "Red Alert!"
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/10/17685392-very-high-chance-north-korea-will-fire-missile-us-and-south-korea-say?lite>1=43001

U.S. defense officials are "highly confident" that North Korea is planning the imminent launch of a medium-range missile, echoing warnings from South Korea that the probability of Pyongyang carrying out its threat is "very high." ...

Adm. Sam Locklear told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee that the U.S. is ready to respond to a North Korean missile launch or other threat.

There's no telling how young Un will react to stuff like this, he might think he just got the go-ahead.

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foonermints 12302 desperate attention whore postings
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04-10-13, 02:26 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Red Alert!"
I hope Kwang-Wong Dingus doesn't boink Honolulu. Even though my ex-wife is there, I really like Woe.

Too much to lose by winning! *tears self apart*

foonermint: one day of evil!

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SOAR64 136 desperate attention whore postings
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04-10-13, 04:21 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: North Korea"
If they do shoot off a rocket, it would serve them right if the guidance system did not work properly and the rocket hits a city in North Korea.
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