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"The Dorner murders and manhunt."
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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-13, 10:00 AM (EST)
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"The Dorner murders and manhunt."
Your typical police department will use a mental health screening process for new recruits. I'm assuming the LAPD is no different in that regard. There's also a screening process for military branches, including the reserves. So he went through at least two evaluations in his life and sailed through into positions which let him learn exactly how to kill people with precision. I'm not sure if this says something about how virtually anyone can turn given the wrong conditions or a desperate need to revise those tests.

He's crossed a line most American criminals are supposedly reluctant to look at: not only targeting police, but going after their families. (Overseas, it's frequently considered a good way to keep the number of dedicated officers down.) It makes him that much less likely to be taken alive. It also means the victim count could still go beyond his own: that nearly happened already.

We train our killers well. We're about to find out just how well.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/08/us/lapd-attacks/index.html

The manifesto: http://www.dailynews.com/ci_22538933

I don't think this one is going to suicide on his own.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. kingfish 02-08-13 1
   RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. Estee 02-08-13 2
       RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. kingfish 02-08-13 3
           RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. Estee 02-08-13 4
               RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. Snidget 02-08-13 5
                   RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. Estee 02-08-13 6
                       RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. Snidget 02-08-13 7
                           RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. kingfish 02-08-13 8
 Reopen his case? kidflash212 02-10-13 9
   RE: Reopen his case? Snidget 02-10-13 10
       RE: Reopen his case? kidflash212 02-10-13 11
           RE: Reopen his case? Estee 02-10-13 12
 One Million Dollars Snidget 02-10-13 13
   RE: One Million Dollars cahaya 02-11-13 14
 To Mexico? kingfish 02-12-13 15
   RE: To Mexico? cahaya 02-12-13 16
       RE: To Mexico? kingfish 02-12-13 17
 RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. dabo 02-12-13 18
   RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. Estee 02-12-13 19
       RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. dabo 02-12-13 20
           RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. Estee 02-12-13 21
               RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. PepeLePew13 02-12-13 22
                   RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. Estee 02-12-13 23
                       RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. dabo 02-12-13 24
                           RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. Estee 02-12-13 25
                               RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. dabo 02-12-13 26
                                   RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. Estee 02-12-13 27
                                       RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. dabo 02-12-13 28
                                           RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. Snidget 02-12-13 29
                                               RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt. dabo 02-12-13 30
 Dorner found dead PepeLePew13 02-12-13 31
   RE: Dorner found dead Brownroach 02-12-13 32
   Dorner not found dead dabo 02-13-13 33
       Someone found dead Snidget 02-13-13 34
           RE: Someone found dead kingfish 02-13-13 35
               RE: Someone found dead HobbsofMI 02-13-13 36
                   RE: Someone found dead kingfish 02-13-13 37
                       RE: Someone found dead Snidget 02-13-13 39
                           RE: Someone found dead kingfish 02-13-13 40
               RE: Someone found dead dabo 02-13-13 38

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-13, 10:15 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
Itchy trigger fingers add to the carnage.

"In Torrance, LAPD officers guarding one of Dorner's alleged targets mistakenly opened fire on a blue pickup truck that resembled one Dorner was thought to be driving, Los Angeles police Chief Charlie Beck said."

"The gunfire wounded two people, he said. Torrance police also fired on another blue pickup, but no one was injured in that incident, a senior law enforcement source said."

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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-13, 10:46 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
And there will be more carnage after this ends, using this incident to justify all of it -- made by officers against other officers and officers against civilians. You see, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if any number from some to all of his accusations against the police department were true. Calling the LAPD a haven for powermongering racists is like calling the ocean a repository for water: all you're trying to do is see how big an understatement you can make. But the racists who are present will do everything they can against officers not of their hue in order to get rid of the next problem, keep going after citizens in case one of them might be considering grabbing a gun, and recruit more racists to join (plus plenty of fresh volunteers who think of it on their own) because now they know revolts can happen and the status quo must be maintained.

It would not surprise me if, as he said, he tried to do it through the system and the system was designed to make sure nothing would be done. But in the end, the blue line will loop into a circle -- and nothing will cross. Or change.

Understand: this doesn't mean I'm not hoping for the safety of those involved. What he's doing is hardly the way to alter things. I just don't think anything will work, period.


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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-13, 11:09 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
LAST EDITED ON 02-08-13 AT 11:11 AM (EST)

The first time I read the account of the incident that led to his firing I thought that he was right, and that the LAPD probably did screw him, and that much of the blame for recent events could be laid at the LAPD doorstep.

But then I read that there were three civilian witnesses that contradicted his account, that there had been an ongoing chain of conflicts between him and his training officer that seemed to be leading to his being disciplined or fired, that he brought the charge against his training officer two weeks after the incident in question, and that the training officer was due to turn in a progress report on him which he could have figured would be negative.

Those circumstances would cause me to doubt that his accusation was valid if I were on the evaluation board.

It seems to me that, in light of the impending negative progress report that he feared she would make, it's not unlikely that Dorner inflicted the injuries that he accused his training officer of in order to set her up.

In any case itís scary and sad, and the screening tests should be improved to allow people with a propensity for these kinds of grudges (whether valid or not) to be filtered out of certain jobs.


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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-13, 11:35 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
I hate to go conspiracy theory, but it's in the LAPD's best interests to make themselves look as good as possible right now. I've seen them turn into a self-distorted source too many times to trust them on faith, much less evidence and records which they have free access to tamper with.

It's possible they're innocent here. It's also really hard to believe in.

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-13, 12:18 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
I would suspect that there are plenty of incidents in the LAPD (and every other police force in the country) that could very easily be seen as problematic so there could be some basis for him to report someone for something.

I can also see that someone that is seen as all too likely to be pursuing a career in part to be the whistle-blower could be forced out over things that may not normally cause someone to be fired.

That this then cost him every single thing in his life, meant he could never, ever, ever have a wife and family, any career of any kind, and lost him all of his blood relatives and is the one true and only source of all that is wrong in his life and deserving of warfare and all that, is on him as...well if that was the normal result of not making it in the police forces, we wouldn't have any cops left as all the still employed ones would have been killed by the fired ones a long time ago.

I mean sure being a rent-a-cop for a mall or any of the bazillion other things people who didn't make it as cop do may not be the dream he had (and gee so many of them manage to find a spouse and procreate), but this does seem to be all out of proportion to anything they did to him vs what he did to himself (or mental illness or other untreated issues not serious enough to be called a mental illness did to him).

This? is not going to end well.

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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-13, 12:24 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
I'm not arguing that the mainspring has gone boing. I'm just wondering about the nature of the initial trigger. But it's very possible that he went into the system with the idea of cleaning it up from the inside. With his part to eventually be played by Matt Damon. With an exclamation point.

'Well' went off the boards three murders ago.

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-13, 01:28 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
So far I haven't found any reports written at the time, which will still be biased, but won't be through any filters from the more recent events.

Even if they declare him innocent and he was in the right back a few years ago what really will happen. Isn't like they can hire him back, and even if he can get back wages (assuming he survives) legal fees are going to make short work of that.

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-13, 02:01 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
The subsequent murders make reinstatement problematic.

And three eye witnesses would have to change their accounts of the earlier event to convince anyone that he was right then. \

And the two week delay? For a crusader whistleblower? His story is already tainted beyond redemption, IMO.

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kidflash212 3854 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-13, 01:14 PM (EST)
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9. "Reopen his case?"
Just read an article that the LAPD has decided to reopen his disciplinary case. I'm hoping that is just internet misinformation. What kind of message does it send - killing people is the way to get what you want?
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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-13, 02:27 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Reopen his case?"
I read they were doing that as well, does seem odd.

On the other hand they may be opening it because it allows for active reinvestigation of things that they hope may end up being helpful in the current situation.

Or, it could be to try to shut up some of the people calling Dorner a hero and cheering him on and thinking the right thing to do is aid him in avoiding the cops so he can kill more of them.

have you read some of the comment sections

When we had the manhunt for that bomber up in the hills of NC there was a lot of concern about how much the locals seemed to see him as some kind of folk hero and were likely to aid him rather than call the cops to report on him.

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kidflash212 3854 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-13, 02:31 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Reopen his case?"
LAST EDITED ON 02-10-13 AT 02:34 PM (EST)

"have you read some of the comment sections?"

I try to avoid it. It scares me to think I might be on the same subway car as some of the commenters.


Seriously, though, I would think reopening his case appears to give his lunacy some legitimacy. As if the LAPD is admitting it might have been wrong.

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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-13, 03:13 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Reopen his case?"
As said above, it's possible he was in fact ignored by The Racist Powers That Keep On Being. But given that it's the LAPD, I think it's more likely that they announced a reevaluation of the case in order to see if they could get him to come out. His manifesto is basically screaming that this keeps going until his NAME is cleared: if he feels it's happening -- or happens after the world's fastest not-review -- there's a tiny chance of surrender.

I have seen some of his support comments. As typical for the Internet, a number come from trolls. I don't doubt he has fans, though. Plenty of anti-government types would love to kill themselves a few officers, and the fringe wouldn't have a problem with targeting families.

Whether he has supporters out there willing to hide him and go down with him -- longer odds. It takes very little courage to proclaim your hate in type and a lot more to use it as armor against SWAT bullets. Outside of scripts, he'd need a network already in place or the kind of luck you normally have to write.

Now, if he can get an untraceable login and start looking for his backers... that's when it gets scarier.

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-13, 10:13 PM (EST)
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13. "One Million Dollars"
http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/10/us/lapd-attacks/index.html

Reward for the arrest being offered. That's a lot of money, and I bet the hotlines are filled with crazies at the moment.

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cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
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02-11-13, 00:27 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: One Million Dollars"
And the bounty hunters suspend their current four-and-five-figure operations and go for the seven-figure one.
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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 11:24 AM (EST)
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15. "To Mexico?"
Good luck with that. A 6'+, 270lb bald black man isn't going to blend too well in Mexico.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/12/16933842-ex-lapd-officer-accused-of-killings-thought-to-have-fled-to-mexico?lite



Free Sigpics by TribePhil at the "Be the Surivor" thread in Survivor Bashers. Sign up now!

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cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 12:24 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: To Mexico?"
Jamaica might be a better choice.
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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 01:28 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: To Mexico?"
And it's pretty easy to get to Cuba from Mexico. Especially by boat.

Of course, he'd have to put off plans as laid out in his manifesto.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 06:39 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
LAST EDITED ON 02-12-13 AT 07:10 PM (EST)

http://news.msn.com/us/ex-cop-exchanges-fire-with-authorities?gt1=51501

A fugitive ex-Los Angeles cop sought in three killings barricaded himself in the San Bernardino Mountains Tuesday after exchanging gunfire with law enforcement officers and wounding two, authorities said.

An officer told The Associated Press that Christopher Dorner earlier had burglarized a cabin and tied up a couple inside. One person was able to get away on Tuesday and make a call.

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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 07:10 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
I'm hoping we can call this endgame and close it without any more wounded or fatalities. If he's gone into a random cabin, the odds of it having an escape tunnel are slightly low. Cornered -- and there's only so much ammunition anyone can carry.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 07:56 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
LAST EDITED ON 02-12-13 AT 07:57 PM (EST)

LA Times reporting one officer has died.

The owner of the cabin said there were no guns stored there, though.

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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 08:07 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
*sigh* Let his count end here.

No phone or Internet. Possibly electricity. So he'd need to have a cell on him or a computer with enough wireless range to work in that area. Any communication trying to talk him out has to begin from his side.

Or they could just drop a bomb on the cabin and send Ms. Martin a check.

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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 08:33 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
You're not that far from the truth... reports are circulating at the moment that the cabin is in flames, there's thick black smoke coming out. Tear gas was just thrown in and there's a tactical attack on the cabin going on now.
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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 08:42 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
CNN has a KABC feed shot from the air. You can see the flames and smoke coming up. Beyond that, it's mostly speculation and no word on whether Dorner was removed alive, dead, or is still in there. CNN thinks a team went inside, but -- it's pretty much all rumors right now.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 08:48 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
Apparently they're going to let it burn to the ground.
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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 09:11 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
They can't send firefighters into an active crime scene with a potentially armed suspect inside: it could easily turn into a death sentence.

Right now, the scary rumor has Dorner setting the fire himself as a distraction to get away. They have the cabin surrounded -- but it's still woods. There are exit routes, especially in the confusion of what may have been an additional smoke bomb.

So if it burns all the way down, they have to search for the cremains of the body, hope there's teeth... and meanwhile, everyone waits for another shooting.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 09:19 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
There are six other cabins on the property, he could have tried to get to one of those using the smoke as a cover.
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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 09:40 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
CNN has U.S. marshals as saying someone tried to get out (no word on whether it was before or during the fire), but that person was somehow pushed back inside.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 09:47 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
On the twitter stream site I was following (until I started getting malicious url alerts) it was reported the cabin had a basement. If he was still alive and unable to get out of the burning cabin, that's where he would have gone.
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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 10:03 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
CNN was interviewing the son of the woman that owns the cabins and he said their was a full basement.

They say they are letting firefighters in (no idea how accurate anything will be at this point), now, so sounds like they are fairly certain things are safe enough for them.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 10:54 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: The Dorner murders and manhunt."
http://news.msn.com/us/ex-cop-exchanges-fire-with-authorities?gt1=43001

A law enforcement source told the Los Angeles Times that police had broken down windows in the cabin, pumped in tear gas and blasted a loud speaker urging Dorner to surrender. When they got no response, police deployed a vehicle to rip down the walls of the cabin "one by one, like peeling an onion," the Times reported.

By the time they got to the last wall, authorities heard a single gunshot, the source said. Then flames began to spread through the structure, and gunshots, probably set off by the fire, were heard.

A body was not found. The police search will be focused in the basement area, the source told the Times.

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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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02-12-13, 11:17 PM (EST)
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31. "Dorner found dead"
... according to KTLA.

http://ktla.com/2013/02/12/cabin-dormer-believed-to-be-holed-up-in-on-fire/#axzz2KkHArGM4

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02-12-13, 11:22 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: Dorner found dead"
I'm shocked. <I'm not>
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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02-13-13, 00:34 AM (EST)
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33. "Dorner not found dead"
http://news.msn.com/us/ex-cop-exchanges-fire-with-authorities?GT1=51501

No body has yet been recovered from a burned out cabin in the mountains above Los Angeles following a gun fight between police and a suspect believed to be a fugitive ex-cop, despite news reports to the contrary, a Los Angeles Police spokesman said.

Los Angeles Police Commander Andrew Smith said the cabin in the Big Bear area northeast of Los Angeles was "still too hot" for police to enter.

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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02-13-13, 08:04 AM (EST)
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34. "Someone found dead"
Early reports were wrong, but by morning they did find a body.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/13/us/lapd-manhunt/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

It will take some time to identify it.

There was one guy this morning saying that from the recording of the last gun battle he thinks someone had a fully automatic weapon. And did you know that you can in some states buy fully automatic weapons? Even through every swore no one could ever do that anywhere? It was a handful of states, and it is highly regulated.

While it could be the police department involved that had it, he did say that it could explain how Dorner was so effective in keeping the cops at bay during that exchange.

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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02-13-13, 09:21 AM (EST)
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35. "RE: Someone found dead"
LAST EDITED ON 02-13-13 AT 09:23 AM (EST)

It is illegal to own an automatic machine gun or pistol without a federal license. In all states. There's a law that was passed in 1934(?) banning private ownership of machine guns in response to the gangster activity of the time.

It is possible to get a federal license to own a machine gun in all states (I think). Unfortunately, there are quite a few legally owned machine guns in private hands.

Three things occur to me about the reports of a machine gun at Bear Lake. One: (as you mention) it might have been the law enforcement weapons. Or Two: it might have been ammo going off in the fire.

From the circumstances, it's doesn't seem likely that it could have been> Three: Dorner or a civilian in the area with a machine gun

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HobbsofMI 15959 desperate attention whore postings
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02-13-13, 11:20 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: Someone found dead"
Another thing is he could have bought the parts to make is full auto, just not all of them at the same time. Since he was very familiar with an M-16 workings it's not that hard to convert a AR-15.


sig Syren, bouncy by IceCat, bobble head by Tribephyl, and snoglobe by agman

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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02-13-13, 01:37 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: Someone found dead"
That's true, people do do that. I think itís illegal and a Federal crime (no parole?) to boot, but very not-smart people do those conversions.

My understanding is that he only had hand guns when he holed up in that cabin. But there was a lot of confusion, and we may find out that he actually did have a weapon that he converted to fully automatic, and still had it in the cabin.

Still, it seems improbable that at the end, he could have been toting the quantity of ammo that he would have needed for a fully automatic weapon to be effective in a siege.

Be interesting to learn the details when this all gets sorted out.

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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02-13-13, 03:20 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: Someone found dead"
The guy they interviewed seemed to know what he was talking about but he could be crazy. There was something different about the 4 states mentioned, maybe how states regulate things under the federal law that makes what you can get legally in one state with some difficulty something you cannot own for any price in another.
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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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02-13-13, 03:35 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: Someone found dead"
They mentioned that he used a 50 cal Sniper rifle - a Barrettís gun I guess, the same weapon that Chris Kyle used in Afghanistan? - to shoot at deputies (and kill one of them).

Not a machine gun, but an awfully large and heavy weapon to lug around on the run. And one which requires big bullets, comparable in size to an electric tooth brush. One would be limited in how much personal carry ammo one could have. A formidable weapon, and a much larger weapon than I would have guessed he had.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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02-13-13, 02:09 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Someone found dead"
The National Firearms Act of 1934 required that machine guns and other specified weapons be registered, and that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives be notified whenever such weapons were to be transferred across state lines. The registration fee was designed to be very prohibitive.
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