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"Oh noes. My evil plan has been uncovered!"
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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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10-16-12, 08:17 AM (EST)
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"Oh noes. My evil plan has been uncovered!"
Meet me by the pond at midnight. We need a new plan to take over the world.

http://m.now.msn.com/homosexuality-will-put-ducks-in-charge-of-world-teen-says

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Quack kidflash212 10-16-12 1
 RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been ... newsomewayne 10-16-12 2
   RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been ... Estee 10-16-12 3
 RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been ... Starshine 10-16-12 4
 RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been ... Molaholic 10-16-12 5
   RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been ... foonermints 10-16-12 6
       RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been ... Molaholic 06-12-13 50
 RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been ... kingfish 10-16-12 7
   RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been ... foonermints 10-16-12 8
 Duck Patrol dabo 05-23-13 9
   RE: Duck Patrol Brownroach 05-24-13 10
 It's the end of the world as they k... Estee 05-24-13 11
   RE: It's the end of the world as th... cahaya 05-24-13 12
       RE: It's the end of the world as th... Estee 05-24-13 13
   Duck! dabo 05-24-13 14
   ...keep in mind... bondt007 05-24-13 15
       RE: ...keep in mind... Estee 05-24-13 16
           RE: ...keep in mind... bondt007 05-24-13 18
               RE: ...keep in mind... dabo 05-24-13 19
                   RE: ...keep in mind... bondt007 05-24-13 20
                       RE: ...keep in mind... dabo 05-24-13 22
                           RE: ...keep in mind... bondt007 05-24-13 25
                               RE: ...keep in mind... dabo 05-24-13 26
                       RE: ...keep in mind... cahaya 05-24-13 23
               RE: ...keep in mind... Estee 05-24-13 21
                   RE: ...keep in mind... Snidget 05-24-13 24
                       RE: ...keep in mind... cahaya 05-25-13 27
                           RE: ...keep in mind... Snidget 05-25-13 28
                               RE: ...keep in mind... bondt007 05-25-13 29
                                   RE: ...keep in mind... Snidget 05-25-13 31
                   RE: ...keep in mind... kidflash212 05-25-13 30
                       RE: ...keep in mind... Starshine 05-27-13 32
                           RE: ...keep in mind... dabo 05-27-13 33
       RE: ...keep in mind... dabo 05-24-13 17
   RE: It's the end of the world as th... dabo 05-28-13 38
 Predict the disaster! Estee 05-28-13 34
   Get Yer Ducks in a Row dabo 05-28-13 35
       RE: Get Yer Ducks in a Row cahaya 05-28-13 36
           RE: Get Yer Ducks in a Row dabo 05-28-13 37
   The Other Side of Duck dabo 05-30-13 39
       RE: The Other Side of Duck Estee 05-31-13 40
           RE: The Other Side of Duck dabo 05-31-13 41
       RE: The Other Side of Duck bondt007 06-02-13 43
           RE: The Other Side of Duck dabo 06-02-13 44
           RE: The Other Side of Duck dabo 06-15-13 55
   Lord Love a Duck! dabo 06-01-13 42
       RE: Lord Love a Duck! dabo 06-07-13 45
           RE: Lord Love a Duck! cahaya 06-07-13 46
               RE: Lord Love a Duck! dabo 06-07-13 47
 QUACK QUACK QUACK! dabo 06-12-13 48
   RE: QUACK QUACK QUACK! cahaya 06-12-13 49
       RE: QUACK QUACK QUACK! dabo 06-12-13 51
       RE: QUACK QUACK QUACK! Estee 06-12-13 52
           RE: QUACK QUACK QUACK! cahaya 06-12-13 53
 Cat Ducks Out dabo 06-14-13 54
 RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been ... tribephyl 06-16-13 56

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kidflash212 3854 desperate attention whore postings
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10-16-12, 08:22 AM (EST)
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1. "Quack"
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newsomewayne 9065 desperate attention whore postings
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10-16-12, 08:37 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been uncovered!"
you can't be in favor of homosexuality, or the ducks will get you in the end."

Only if the ducks are gay, too.


Tebow Time is over. We prefer to win games in the 1st quarter.
Trade managed by GM Agman, 2012


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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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10-16-12, 08:52 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been uncovered!"
So you've been sexually assaulted by ducks before this?
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Starshine 4934 desperate attention whore postings
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10-16-12, 09:34 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been uncovered!"
Were I the parent of such a child I would have to kick her out of the house, after all if she believes that everyone would be homosexual if they had the choice, then she must prefer the company of women herself.

But apparently 19% of Mallards are gay anyway

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Molaholic 8451 desperate attention whore postings
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10-16-12, 10:02 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been uncovered!"
I guess this means those rumors about Donald and Daffy are true...
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foonermints 12302 desperate attention whore postings
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10-16-12, 11:32 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been uncovered!"
"Daffy" is kind of a strange name.. isn't it now?
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Molaholic 8451 desperate attention whore postings
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06-12-13, 09:08 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been uncovered!"
Obviously Donald and Daffy are sexual degenerates, since they never wear pants (Wednesday or not).

xxxxxx

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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10-16-12, 06:57 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been uncovered!"
LAST EDITED ON 10-16-12 AT 06:57 PM (EST)

She has obviously never witnessed that group frenzy gang rape that characterizes ducks mating.

Doing it like a duck means jumping in a pile of humanity and doing whoever's in front of (or behind) you.

But, come to think of it, maybe that's her idea of being evolved.

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foonermints 12302 desperate attention whore postings
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10-16-12, 07:00 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been uncovered!"
Mebbe its not the sex, just the quacking?
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-23-13, 08:23 PM (EST)
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9. "Duck Patrol"
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth.

First the Army, then the White House, now the Boy Scouts. Who's next? The NFL?

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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 01:21 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Duck Patrol"
LAST EDITED ON 05-24-13 AT 02:53 AM (EST)

I tawt I taw dis twead befaw.

Don't the Boy Scouts merit their own topic? Are they really to be shunted to the bottom of a months-old topic about an long-forgotten idiot named Jasmin?

Oh, and for some reason I'm thinking of some songs right now: 25 Miles by Edwin Starr; In The Year 2525 by Zager & Evans...

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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 04:33 PM (EST)
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11. "It's the end of the world as they know it."
http://www.mediaite.com/online/r-i-p-bsa-6-typically-over-the-top-christian-conservative-reactions-to-boy-scouts-allowing-gay-kids/#0

Which leads into what I'm waiting for: number of troops spontaneously disbanding, Scoutmasters leaving, parents pulling kids out and kids leaving on their own, and loss of sponsors. They're going to lose numbers from this, and perhaps not small ones.

Still more than about @#%^ time.

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cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 04:52 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: It's the end of the world as they know it."
And numerous calls for a splinter national organization of their own. Will there be a battle between the inevitably large number of splinter factions to create another national organization?

And what will they call the new organization? Straight boy scouts? Jesus scouts? Believer boys?

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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 05:00 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: It's the end of the world as they know it."
I think you pinned it: Jesus Scouts. Love, compassion, and hating everyone the Bible tells you to hate.

Well, people who've read the Bible.

Every third word or so.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 05:26 PM (EST)
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14. "Duck!"
Christ could throw a punch.

Hey, if you're going to outrageously over-react, don't hold back.

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bondt007 3358 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 05:44 PM (EST)
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15. "...keep in mind..."
The move was only made to prevent IRS audits and investigations...


>Issued by "Q" and RollDdice

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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 05:49 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
LAST EDITED ON 05-24-13 AT 05:50 PM (EST)

So you would describe the Scouts as a far right-wing junior recruitment PAC?

I knew it!

(Should I ask if you approve of this policy change? All it means for me is that I will no longer walk past the Scout booth at street fairs without buying overpriced popcorn.)

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bondt007 3358 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 07:39 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
You know - I haven't thought a lot about it.

On one hand I think it's fine to have private groups that exclude. There are plenty of them.

On the other hand, the gay issue is not much of an issue to me. Gay boys everywhere will get to learn how to camp and build fires I guess.

If you are asking because I'm a Christian, the "command" I need to live by is to love God and love people. "God" is specific, and "people" is broad.

Maybe a gay boy will become a Christian. Maybe a Christian will become gay - either of these scenarios could also become a reality in a classroom, playground, baseball diamond or ASB.


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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 08:06 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
LAST EDITED ON 05-24-13 AT 08:30 PM (EST)

It was not a very well thought out policy, really. First, the scouting programs don't encourage any sex whatsoever, they discourage it. Which is something the BSA leaders should be pointing out to everyone.

But mainly, most of the kids in the scouting programs joined the programs at a young age, 5 for Daisies, 6 for Tigers. How could anyone reasonably expect to keep gays out of the programs in the first place? There were always gay scouts and there always would be gay scouts.

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bondt007 3358 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 10:02 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
Yes - but isn't the policy change REALLY scout leaders?



>Issued by "Q" and RollDdice

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 10:24 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
I don't understand if you are talking about leaders having trouble wrapping their heads around this change and dealing with having openly gay scouts in their care, or openly gay scout leaders. The ban on openly gay adults participating in scouting was upheld, it is still in effect. The change that was approved was strictly in regard to the scouts themselves.

Frankly, I get it, one step at a time. Scouting still needs to wrap the head around the fact that pedophile is a different class all its own, and gay adults aren't automatically a danger to the children in their charge.

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bondt007 3358 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 10:48 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
...incomplete sentence...

I didn't know it did not include the leaders - like I said I didn't really spend time on this yet (daughter/wedding/June 8).

I guess I understand it less then.

I think the larger issue in all of this is BSA has some foundation in Christianity, and Christians are trying to wrap their heads around "gay" in general.

Safety really is in background checks, follow up interviews, yearly assessments, cross checks and random audits of leadership (I can go on). I would be way more in favor of that type of a policy mandate as a Christian than anything else.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 11:59 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-13 AT 06:58 PM (EST)

Actually, the foundation of the Boy Scouts in Britain (where it was originated) was proto-militiristic. The idea was to teach boys the survival skills they would need in any scenario. And some basic military forms like marching.

Combining God and country into the mix was a decisive early inclusion as well, because the two go hand in hand in the British (Victorian) mindset. It is about duty.

In any event, politics was never an issue.

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cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 10:40 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
I kind of wonder about all of this. Most younger boy scouts are still under the age of puberty have no experience with sexuality and may not even know their own sexual orientation, still sorting out what they learn and feel within themselves. How could an eight year-old kid possibly identify themselves as heterosexual or gay apart from how they feel about both genders within themselves with no experience with it?

Past the age of puberty and the onset of hormonal changes and increased self-awareness in the early teens, then it might be possible for them to identify themselves with a particular sexual orientation, but even then it is without actual experience.

I had several friends in my youth who later discovered themselves to be gay, about the time of high school, but only later in life did they actually have any experience with it, most of them only after their years in public schools and in college. Curiously enough, none of them were in the scouts with such activities being beyond their interests (and mine).


Agman's Muse

Sad to say, I lost two very good gay friends to AIDS when it was still a new epidemic.

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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 10:07 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
Maybe a gay boy will become a Christian. Maybe a Christian will become gay

Your phrasing seems to indicate that those things are mutually exclusive.

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-13, 10:46 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
LAST EDITED ON 05-24-13 AT 10:49 PM (EST)

I know plenty of gay Christians. Just depending on their sect they are more or less able to be open about it, and may find a different church as soon as they don't have to go to the one they grew up in.

I know a lot of people do seem to phrase things as if they are mutually exclusive but I don't think that really reflects reality.

And the gay Christians I know were not gay because they got converted to it because of any gay role models on TV or gay people they met.

It really isn't nearly as infectious as people seem to want to make it out to be.

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cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-13, 00:08 AM (EST)
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27. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-13 AT 00:17 AM (EST)

Of the gay friends of mine who I went through high school with, one was Jewish, one was Presbyterian, one was a non-practicing Muslim (his parents being Iranian immigrants) and one was atheist. From what I can tell, sexual orientation has very little to do with religious upbringing and belief than it does with genetics and personal experience. And it's certainly not infectious, as if it were a communicable disease.

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-13, 07:56 AM (EST)
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28. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
About the only thing I see that various religious upbringings do is alter the flavor of the guilt and shame that gets layered onto the tumultuous of the teen years.

And it isn't like straight kids get off scot free with that, either.

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bondt007 3358 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-13, 11:14 AM (EST)
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29. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
That could be true sometimes, but for the most part is a narrow minded mischaracterization.

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-13, 11:58 AM (EST)
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31. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
I've enough gay religious friends that needed to get away from the church of origin and find another church where they are not regularly berated from the pulpit, not all of them, but too many.

Unfortunately there are enough homophobic churches, temples, study groups, etc. that a fair percentage of gay teens end up with a bunch of crap piled onto their sexuality. Sexuality can be enough of a thing just by itself with just the crap that generally gets dumped on it anyway.

Now there are plenty of churches, temples, etc. which are loving to all and accepting of everyone, I'm Episcopalian, we got a gay bishop for goodness sake . Just at least around here, don't know about where you are, there are enough churches that put various anti-gay messages on the sign out front to make me think they probably have at least a few sermons every once in awhile discussing the topic in a less than loving and accepting way.

I've got one casual friend, who in addition to being vocal about his religion and generally a really nice guy, but I'm just about to at least hide most of his facebook updates because there are just a few too many about how you cannot ever walk with God if every there is a tiny bit of gayness in any thought much less deed. The recent gay marriage amendment vote uncovered a lot of people who never said boo about it before, but one wonders how they felt all along.

All it takes is meeting a few selective Christians and their hypocrisy about how your sins are different to sometimes wonder about those that have better control over what they say where. I just can't get past the believing the truth of all of are sinners, all of us are saved, and all sins are sins no matter how big or how small, and that the new covenant trumps all. For some reason that rings true to me. At one point I thought it was what all Christians believed. I have found that it isn't true and it makes me very sad.

Of course most of the "your sins are different" say I'm not saved because my baptism and confirmation don't count. I'm not born again enough for most people, sadly.

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kidflash212 3854 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-13, 11:35 AM (EST)
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30. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
"Maybe a gay boy will become a Christian. Maybe a Christian will become gay

Your phrasing seems to indicate that those things are mutually exclusive."


It would also indicate that both of those options are a choice when only one of them is something you can choose to be.



Capn2patch put me in motion!

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Starshine 4934 desperate attention whore postings
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05-27-13, 03:31 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
Whilst I understand your point I am about to prickle a few people.

Do I choose to be a Christian?

No, actually I don't, I am a Christian. I have felt the voice in my heart, the almost overwhelming ecstasy of love, I could try to hide away from it but... at the end of the day I am a Christian. Did I choose this? No.

And I also believe that it is perfectly possible to be a gay Christian

Meanwhile Britain's Scout Association has launched a new campaign to increase its ranks of gay scouts and gay leaders

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-27-13, 09:44 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
WaPo OpEd

The whole opinion is worth reading, but I'll give some highlights.

THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA (BSA) ... encourages young men to take charge — of themselves and others. And it builds character, the sort that comes from cooperating with, competing against and rendering service to those around you. For these reasons and more, the BSA is an important thread in America’s national fabric, and it is a good thing that the organization boasts more than 100,000 troops across the country ...

After last Thursday, that membership should rise. (Frankly, I think that is an unrealistic expectation as the ban never prevented any boy from joining.) ... less discrimination is still good news ...

(But) BSA’s membership may very well fall ... Religious groups sponsor about 70 percent of troops, and some of their leaders seem ready to rip this priceless civic institution apart. ... they should resist the urge. ...

the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a major scouting sponsor, immediately embraced the policy change. ... Because the church’s organization is highly centralized, that means a very large number of troops will remain active.

Not all big religious sponsors have been as encouraging. Catholic clergy have said mixed things ... The National Catholic Committee on Scouting ... said that “we hope to maintain that relationship,” and that that the group will “study” the new policy’s effects before it phases in at the end of this year.

Some Southern Baptist leaders have been more negative. ... Even before the vote, discussions of alternative youth groups to the Boy Scouts popped up in the press, Christian and otherwise.

It’s difficult to imagine another group that could do as much good for as many boys as have the Scouts over many decades.

And from the comments section, responding to a rant about the Constutional rights of Christians having been trampled:

How have any Constitutional rights been trampled? First of all, BSA is not a Christian organization. Second, BSA was not forced to change by the government, they made their own choice to undo the change they made in the 90s. Third, this doesn't stop anyone from living by their moral code. If you believe being gay is a sin, this change does not force you to be gay. Christians are still welcomed in BSA.

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05-24-13, 06:06 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: ...keep in mind..."
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,232 delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban, BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes, to 475 no (another 168 delegates did not cast a ballot since they were not present at the meeting).
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05-28-13, 11:40 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: It's the end of the world as they know it."
Anyone looking for an alternative to the BSA or GSA, there already is one, the Baden-Powell Service Association:

http://bpsa-us.org/

lolz

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05-28-13, 07:01 AM (EST)
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34. "Predict the disaster!"
According to those most knowledge authorities on divine will at the Westboro Baptist Church, the Moore tornado was their deity's retribution on the United States for the degree of acceptance (any) given to Jason Collins.

So -- how and where will never-innocent people die to pay for the Scouts' act of treachery?

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05-28-13, 03:26 PM (EST)
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35. "Get Yer Ducks in a Row"
The plot unfolds.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/28/boy-scouts-mormon-gay-_n_3346729.html

Bryan Fischer ... has now singled out the Mormon church's support for the BSA's amended view on gay Scouts as evidence that church officials are hoping legalization of polygamy will follow.

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36. "RE: Get Yer Ducks in a Row"
All these kids want to do is to know how to set up a campfire, find themselves around within the woods with a compass and a bit of geograghic topological analysis, swim and boat on a lake, clear a few areas of litter in the woods, and sing a few songs by the campfire light under the stars.

And all these politically and religiously minded adults, what is it with them? Go away. It's not about them.

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37. "RE: Get Yer Ducks in a Row"
LAST EDITED ON 05-28-13 AT 09:21 PM (EST)

Word.

The thing these doom-n-gloomers should be asking themselves is how the BSA survived 81 years (1910-1991) without banning gays?

The ban on openly gay youths never actually served a purpose, it simply was a position statement, an unnecessary one, created in an over-reaction to the gay rights movement. Scouting should never have been politicized in that way.

The ban on openly gay adults participating in scouting unfortunately does serve a purpose, it prevents some former scouts and some parents of current scouts (sometimes both in the same person) from contributing their valuable services to scouting.

The only ban originally structured into scouting, in Britain from the start and in the US from 1910 onward, was against participation by atheists and agnostics. That ban actually served a couple of purposes as well, though it is debatable whether those are purposes worth serving when it does mean excluding some children from scouting. Imagine how ballistic the doom-n-gloomers would go if the BSA even hinted that there might be a vote on that ban.

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39. "The Other Side of Duck"
Great, with a backlash already coming from the right, now the BSA is getting a backlash from the left.

http://www.charismanews.com/us/39006-california-poised-to-strip-boy-scouts-of-tax-exempt-status

Under the bill, SB 323, California would strip tax-exempt status from any “organization organized and operated exclusively as a public charity youth organization that discriminates on the basis of gender identity, race, sexual orientation, nationality, religion, or religious affiliations.” Some of the public charity youth organizations at risk include Little League, Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, Girl Scouts, Special Olympics, American Youth Soccer Organization, Future Business Leaders of America, and many religious organizations that serve youth.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/boy-scouts-nonprofit-status_n_3362079.html

The California State Senate on Wednesday passed a bill that would strip the Boy Scouts of nonprofit status in California because of the group's anti-gay discrimination.

The bill, introduced by Sen. Ricardo Lara (D-Long Beach), would revoke the tax-exempt status of all California youth groups that discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. The legislation received wide support in the Senate, passing 27-9 -- the first lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender-related bill to pass the Senate with a two-thirds majority.

The law would have no effect on the tax-exempt status of churches, many of which discriminate against gays and lesbians.

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40. "RE: The Other Side of Duck"
The law would have no effect on the tax-exempt status of churches, many of which discriminate against gays and lesbians.

Behold the final frontier.

Regardless, in the Scouts' case, it's like they're being punished for trying. And now on Earth are the Special Olympics on that list? Because you can't run in a race for the blind if you can see?

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41. "RE: The Other Side of Duck"
LAST EDITED ON 05-31-13 AT 01:27 PM (EST)

it's like they're being punished for trying

Yup. Thing is, the change that was voted for was the culmination of a two-year process by the advocates for change within the BSA to achieve some change. They couldn't get enough support for change until earlier this year when they decided to separate the issue into two issues, then they were able to get strong enough support to change the policy in regard to gay youth.

But if the Girl Scouts could also lose their non-profit tax-exempt status because of this bill, the Boy Scouts would probably be caught up in it anyway even had they also changed the policy in regard to gay adults. The GSA never had an official policy on gays. Not a lawyer but I'll try to find out more about the bill, the "gender identity" bit may be the catch-all.

As for Special Olympics, that's obviously reaching a bit far in my opinion. Why? How? Puzzling. Is it because it is exclusively for "special" kids?

I get that California is the leading state in being anti-discrimination, but is there no such thing as reasonable discrimination anymore?

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06-02-13, 11:37 AM (EST)
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43. "RE: The Other Side of Duck"
California's "government" is such a lopsided group this does not surprise me. "...received wide support in the Senate..." is like saying "...beer sales were up on July 4th...".

This doesn't make our state a leader but a laughing stock.



>Issued by "Q" and RollDdice

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44. "RE: The Other Side of Duck"
LAST EDITED ON 06-02-13 AT 05:53 PM (EST)

Well, I'm sure you aren't alone in that opinion. Allow me to clarify what I said above about California leading the anti-discrimination charge: a powerful segment of California politicians with strong popular support within the state prides itself on having California be the leading (ahead of the curve) state in advancing equality of rights and anti-discrimination legislation. For some of them it is virtually a religious cause.

Anyway, I haven't found how Special Olympics might be impacted by that legislation, it is simply included in a list of organizations that would come under scrutiny. While Special Olympics has its critics, the discrimination it practices is simply that it is an assistance program for learning disabled children and adults. Unless the leading politicians here are saying that "gender identity" should be classified as a learning disability -- which I very much doubt -- Special Olympics is probably safe in retaining their tax exempt status.

"Gender identity" -- when a person is biologically one gender but self identifies as the other gender -- is where this law would catch out the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, every same gender segregated youth sports program and so on. I can understand why that is an important issue for the LGBT community in terms of equality in the workplace and education and so on, but the fact is that gender based youth programs are by definition based on biological gender.

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06-15-13, 09:17 PM (EST)
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55. "RE: The Other Side of Duck"
Here's an editorial piece you may enjoy.

http://www.ksbw.com/tv/editorials/editorial-boy-scouts-tax-status/-/7651230/20580688/-/9p2tnz/-/index.html

Senate Bill 323 is aimed at stripping the Boy Scouts of their non-profit tax status.

Co-authored by the Central Coast's own Bill Monning, this bullying scheme has already passed the State Senate and moved to the Assembly.

The idea of targeting a private group's tax status based on ones disagreement with their politics would have been shocking a decade ago, but with the recent investigation at the IRS, it is sadly not so today. Whether aimed at annoying Tea Party groups or the long-respected Boy Scouts, using a group's tax-status as some sort of punitive cudgel to beat them into submission to your political views is simply un-American!

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42. "Lord Love a Duck!"
LAST EDITED ON 06-01-13 AT 10:58 PM (EST)

Hey, BSA, a bit of good news! Yes, losing the sponsorships of the Southern Baptist Conference and the Assemblies of God and various independent churches would be a blow, losing donors has been a blow, losing donors while also losing (Potentially) tax exempt status a double whammy. But +++

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/catholic-leaders-urge-support-for-boy-scouts-after-shift-on-gays_n_3369669.html

+++ they still have support within the Catholic Church!

The U.S. Catholic Church’s top liaison to the Boy Scouts of America is telling Catholic Scout leaders and troop sponsors that the BSA’s new policy welcoming gay Scouts “is not in conflict with Catholic teaching” and they should continue to support scouting programs.

“Scouting is still the best youth-serving program available to all youth,” Edward P. Martin, chairman of the National Catholic Committee on Scouting, wrote in a May 29 letter addressed to “fellow Catholic Scouters.”

Martin said that despite some concerns, the NCCS had taken a neutral stance on a resolution adopted on May 23 by the BSA’s National Council.

One of the experts Martin cited was Edward Peters, a canon lawyer popular with church conservatives who wrote that while he disliked the new policy it was not contrary to church doctrine.

Martin noted that Scouting policies still bar sexual activity of any kind ...

Not to mention that the BSA has a strong program in place to deal with pederasty when they discover it, and not by sweeping it under the rug, unlike some groups.

Seriously, though, Catholic Churches are the third strongest sponsors of Boy Scout troops (Southern Baptists are way down the list), losing Catholic support would have been a major blow to the BSA.

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45. "RE: Lord Love a Duck!"
LAST EDITED ON 06-08-13 AT 03:05 PM (EST)

So, how's the fall out going, you may be wondering? Pretty much as expected. In a Huffington Post piece this week they noted: The Southern Baptist Convention, whose 3,981 Scout troops make it the BSA’s sixth-largest religious sponsor, plans to address the issue at its annual meeting in Houston, June 11-12. There's some misinformation in that (which I will discuss later), but yeah it seems that the convention will be giving the BSA a slap in the face, but it will be up to the individual churches to decide for themselves. Assemblies of God are pretty much guaranteed to be pulling up the stakes. Good riddance.

I even read about two Catholic churches that will be discontinuing their sponsorships, that's kind of a shame but so long. One of those churches, in the Chicago area, sponsors a Cub Pack and a Scout Troop, each with about 10 members. I think that troop is really too small and would benefit by merging with another small troop, get some more diversity going.

Anyway, this isn't the first time Scouting has had a membership controversy. When Robert Baden-Powell founded Scouting he wanted it to be as open to all boys as possible. While it has basis in some basic religious and civic principles, Scouting isn't set up to prefer one religion over another, or to take political positions. In the early days they had to convince Catholic leaders that Scouting wasn't out to promote Protestantism, to convince Jewish and Muslim leaders that Scouting wasn't a Christian plot against them. Scouting spread to Japan in the early days due to Christian organizations like the YMCA, and in time accomodations were made to accept Buddhism (which doesn't have a diety in the same sense as the Abramic religions).

William D. Boyce, founder of the BSA, made it very clear that no boy should be excluded because of race or creed. As you may imagine, a lot of people had a problem with that and for a long time things didn't work out very well on the race issue. In some areas blacks were only allowed to be in black troops, in some areas blacks were outright excluded from joining. White only troops were allowed to exist in places where there could be integrated troops. Politically the BSA really wasn't set up to take a stand, it wasn't until 1974 that the BSA was able to finally take a position against racial segregation. The Southern Baptists howled about that too.

Even today Wicca children can find themselves being expelled from their troop. The BSA doesn't have a policy against Wicca, it's just not one of the recognized religions, so if a sponsor group has a problem with Wicca that's that, politically the BSA can't do much except maybe find another troop that will accept those children.

Anyway, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about how Scout Troops work. Sponsoring means mainly providing a place where troops and packs can meet. The sponsoring group appoints a representative who has some organizational duties, like having the right of approval over adult leaders of the troop or pack. Once a troop is up and running it pretty much runs itself, the adult leaders in charge. Almost all of the adults involved in Scouting at the troop and pack levels volunteer their time and even pay their own way.

In a well written piece in the Washington Post last weekend some misinformation creeped in, including this whopper: Mormon boys make up about a fifth of all Scouts. There is no way of knowing that. Where are people getting their misinformation? Here:

http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/operating_orgs.aspx

It is information collected and posted by the BSA December 31, 2012, and no I am not saying it is misinformation because it is dated. It's perfectly valid information, but people haven't been making the effort to find out what it really means. Not all of the youths in Mormon sponsored units are necessarilly Mormons. In fact the BSA doesn't even gather information about the individual religious affiliations of anyone, child or adult, associated with Scouting. Nor for that matter information about sexual identity. Check out the application pdf.

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-406A.pdf

So, what about those Southern Baptists, what is wrong with The Southern Baptist Convention, whose 3,981 Scout troops make it the BSA’s sixth-largest religious sponsor ...? There's actually no way to know from the factsheet how large a presence there is of Southern Baptist sponsors. Dig around and you find that "Baptist Churches" groups many Baptist Groups together under that one heading. Find the page on Baptist Churches, it mentions there are over 60 different baptist organizations, and lists the top seven. Yes, Southern Baptists are at the top of the list. The next four on the list are African American.

Who wants to break them the news?

Dig around some more on the factsheet and you might actually figure out what units are. A unit is:

A Cub Pack, the program for boys aged 6 to 10 -- A Scout Troop, the program for boys aged 11 to 17 -- Or -- A Venturing Crew, the program for boys and girls aged 14 to 20.

So all those supposed Mormon boys are even necessarilly all of them boys.

1. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint: 37,856 units: 430,557 youths.
2. United Methodist Church: 10,868 units: 363,876 youths.
3. Catholic Church: 8,397 units: 273,648 youths.
4. Parent-teacher groups other than PTAs: 3,443 units: 144,219 youths.
5. Presbyterian Church: 3,597 units: 125,523 youths.
6. Lutheran Church: 3,827 units: 116,417 youths.
7. Baptist Churches: 3,981 units: 108,353 youths.
8. Private schools: 2,802 units: 103,254 youths.
9. Groups of citizens: 3,115 units: 100,751 youths.
10. American Legion and Auxiliary: 2,553 units: 68,154 youths.
11. Business/industry: 2,807 units: 66,454 youths.
12. Parent Teacher Associations/ Parent Teacher Organizations: 1,561 units: 65,567 youths.
13. Lions International: 2,271 units: 64,563 youths.
14. Rotary International: 1,333 units: 42,922 youths.
15. Episcopal Church: 1,179 units: 41,407 youths.
16. United Church of Christ, Congregational Church: 1,191 units: 38,225 youths.
17. Christian Church (Disciples of Christ): 1,165 units: 33,941 youths.
18. Community Churches: 1,054 units: 32,311 youths.
19. VFW, Auxiliary, Cootie: 1,084 units: 31,199 youths.
20. Fire departments: 1,176 units: 30,819 youths.
21. Kiwanis International: 889 units: 28,547 youths.
22. Elks Lodge (BPOE): 778 units: 21,967 youths.
23. Community centers: 925 units: 21,258 youths.
24. Boys’ and Girls’ Clubs: 569 units: 19,177 youths.
25. Nonprofit agencies: 603 units: 16,662 youths.
26. Church of Christ: 546 units: 15,430 youths.
27. Playgrounds, recreation centers: 444 units: 11,610 youths.
28. Athletic booster clubs: 389 units: 11,416 youths.
29. Chambers of commerce, business associations: 358 units: 10,553 youths.
30. Homeowners’ associations: 268 units: 9,519 youths.
31. Optimist International: 246 units: 8,804 youths.
32. YWCA, YMCA: 312 units: 8,738 youths.
33. Masons – Eastern Star: 296 units: 8,664 youths.
34. Evangelical/Independent churches: 294 units: 7,899 youths.
35. Church of God: 237 units: 5,241 youths.
36. Church of the Nazarene: 156 units: 4,181 youths.
37. Reformed Church in America: 127 units: 4,077 youths.
38. Jewish synagogues and centers: 156 units: 3,738 youths.
39. Church of the Brethren: 101 units: 2,759 youths.
40. African Methodist Episcopal: 149 units, 2,416 youths.
41. The Salvation Army: 130 units: 2,233 youths.
42. Islam, Muslim, Masjid: 78 units: 2,222 youths.
43. Assemblies of God: 91 units: 2,193 youths.
44. Christian Methodist Episcopal Church: 95 units: 1,970 youths.
45. Community of Christ: 61 units: 1,899 youths.
46. Pentecostal Churches: 107 units: 1,830 youths.
47. Other community organizations: 1,656 units: 45,891 youths.
48. Other churches: 879 units: 23,910 youths.

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46. "RE: Lord Love a Duck!"
LAST EDITED ON 06-07-13 AT 07:05 PM (EST)

Wow, what a list! (Thanks!) This is a lot of kids who just want to learn some scouting skills while the adults wrangle amongst themselves.

Surely there will be some defections to an an alternate scouting society amongst these. Whose who remains to be seen.

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06-07-13, 08:56 PM (EST)
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47. "RE: Lord Love a Duck!"
While the Southern Baptists are making a lot of noise, the United Church of Christ has indicated that they want to increase their involvement in scouting. And the Unitarians continue their efforts to resolve their differences with the BSA.

Southern Baptists have their Royal Ambassadors and Challengers programs for their own children, and Assemblies of God have their Royal Rangers program for their children. But where do the other kids who lose their sponsors go?

Either we can hope their units find new sponsors or they can find other units to join. If not, yeah, there are some alternatives they could take a look at.

Baden-Powell Service Association
Camp Fire USA
Navigators USA
SpiralScouts International

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48. "QUACK QUACK QUACK!"
Well, the bad news is that the Southern Baptist Convention did not vote to sever their ties to the BSA nor recommend that their member churches drop their Boy Scout programs. They voted instead to throw their weight around, act up, and make as much noise as they can having a protracted hissyfit.

Wish I could find a copy of the actual resolution they passed, it is a doozy from what I read. From various reports, it:

Condemns the policy change by the BSA to allow openly gay youths in Scouting programs.

Expresses opposition to the policy change and intent to have it reversed.

Recommends to their churches which do continue their involvement in Scouting to oppose the policy change and work to have it reversed.

Expresses support to all churches which do decide to discontinue their involvement in Scouting.

Recommends that boys who do leave Scouting join their Royal Ambassadors religious brain washing scouting program.

Expresses concern that the policy change makes it evident that the BSA will eventually change the policy prohibiting adult homosexuals from being involved in Scouting.

and -- this is killer --

Calls on the Boy Scouts to remove executive and board leaders who tried to allow gays as both members and leaders without consulting the many religious groups that sponsor troops.

How were they not consulted? Dunno. I guess they just mean: "We told you not to do it, you were warned!"

Crybabies.

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49. "RE: QUACK QUACK QUACK!"
Here it is straight from Baptist Press. Oh, Lordy.

Full text follows:

ON THE CHANGE OF MEMBERSHIP POLICY OF THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA

WHEREAS, For more than a century, the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) has been a values-based boys organization designed to “prepare young people for a lifetime of character and leadership,” equipping them “to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law”; and

WHEREAS, The Scout Oath contains language that is consistent with belief in God and biblical precepts that serve as the basis for Christian faith: “On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight”; and

WHEREAS, The leadership of the Boy Scouts throughout its history has restricted from membership and leadership those persons who would affect the group’s ability to advocate its viewpoints in regard to belief in God and His moral precepts; and

WHEREAS, In 1992, and again in 2000, the Southern Baptist Convention adopted resolutions affirming the Boy Scouts in their stand that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the obligations of the Scout Oath, encouraging the BSA “to maintain its historic commitments” (1992) and “to hold fast to its traditional ideals” (2000); and

WHEREAS, The United States Supreme Court ruled in 2000 that the constitutional right to freedom of association allows a private organization, as part of its “expressive message,” to exclude a person from membership when “the presence of that person affects in a significant way the group’s ability to advocate public or private viewpoints” and that allowing homosexuals as adult leaders would interfere with that message (Boy Scouts of America et al. v. Dale); and

WHEREAS, In 2004, the Boy Scouts adopted a policy statement that said, in part, “Boy Scouts of America believes that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the obligations in the Scout Oath and Scout Law to be morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed”; and

WHEREAS, In 2012, an eleven-person committee appointed by the National Council of the Boy Scouts completed a two-year study and reported its unanimous decision that the Boy Scouts retain the current policy as outlined above; and

WHEREAS, NBC News reported in breaking news on January 28, 2013, that the BSA executive leadership, in concert with certain members of the BSAboard of directors, was poised to change the Scouts’ historic policy at its February 4–5 board meeting the following week to allow avowed homosexuals into membership and leadership positions within the Boy Scouts of America; and

WHEREAS, During the week between when news broke of this proposed policy change and the February board meeting, the Boy Scouts received an outpouring of feedback from Scouts, Scouting families, sponsoring organizations, and the American public; and

WHEREAS, On February 6, 2013, the BSA board determined that, “due to the complexity of this issue, the organization needs time for a deliberate review of its membership policy”; and

WHEREAS, The National Council of the Boy Scouts voted on May 23, 2013, to approve new membership guidelines that state, “no youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone”; and

WHEREAS, While those who embrace a biblical worldview are grateful that the leadership policy of the BSA remains unchanged, the executive leadership and certain members of the Boy Scouts board clearly signaled their desire to change both the membership and leadership policies of the BSA; and

WHEREAS, This decision of the BSA is viewed by many homosexual activists as merely the first step in a process that will fundamentally change the BSA, putting the Scouts at odds with a consistent biblical worldview on matters of human sexuality; and

WHEREAS, This decision has the potential to complicate basic understandings of male friendships, needlessly politicize human sexuality, and heighten sexual tensions within the Boy Scouts; and

WHEREAS, Many Southern Baptist churches sponsor Boy Scout troops and many Southern Baptists are involved in Scouting; and

WHEREAS, The Baptist Faith and Message states that “Christians should oppose . . . all forms of sexual immorality, including adultery, homosexuality, and pornography,” and Southern Baptists consistently have expressed their opposition to the normalization of homosexual behavior in American culture through more than a dozen resolutions over the past thirty years; now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Houston, Texas, June 11–12, 2013, express our continued opposition to and disappointment in the decision of the Boy Scouts of
America to change its membership policy; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we express our gratitude for the thousands of individuals within the Scouting family and the culture at large who expressed their opposition to the BSA executive leadership’s intent to change its membership and leadership policies in regard to homosexuality, leading to the compromise recommendation it presented to the BSA National
Council; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we express our gratitude to each voting member of the National Council who voted in opposition to the policy change for membership; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we express our well-founded concern that the current executive leadership of the BSA, along with certain board members, may utilize this membership policy change as merely the first step toward future approval of homosexual leaders in the Scouts; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we call on the Boy Scouts to remove from executive and board leadership those individuals who, earlier this year, sought to change both the membership and leadership policy of the Scouts without seeking input from the full range of the Scouting family; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we affirm the right of all families and churches prayerfully to assess their continued relationship with the BSA, expressing our support for those churches and families that as a matter of conscience can no longer be part of the Scouting family; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we encourage churches and families that remain in the Boy Scouts to seek to impact as many boys as possible with the life-changing Gospel of Jesus Christ, to work toward the reversal of this new membership policy, and to advocate against any future change in leadership and membership policy that normalizes sexual conduct opposed to the biblical standard; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we declare our love in Christ for all young people regardless of their perceived sexual orientation, praying that God will bring all youth into a saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

06-12-13, 09:35 PM (EST)
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51. "RE: QUACK QUACK QUACK!"
LAST EDITED ON 06-12-13 AT 09:38 PM (EST)

Here it is straight from Baptist Press. Edit out the backslash after link:

Thanks, that's quite a page. Sometimes it helps to go straight to the source, reporters don't always make it clear when they are taking it from the source or relying on quotes of people saying what they like.

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Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

06-12-13, 09:43 PM (EST)
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52. "RE: QUACK QUACK QUACK!"
RESOLVED, That we declare our love in Christ for all young people regardless of their perceived sexual orientation, praying that God will bring all youth into a saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Let's just pretend I said something which would have gotten me banned. Because I just did. Out loud. Several times.

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cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
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06-12-13, 10:47 PM (EST)
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53. "RE: QUACK QUACK QUACK!"
More from the same:

In 2009, he said, the IMB's Journeyman Program had 331 women but only 126 men. In West Africa -- a dangerous location -- there were 48 women but only two men.

Such statistics, Akin said, are dooming the Muslim world to hell. In Muslim countries, women are not culturally allowed to share the Gospel with a Muslim man.

Akin called on Southern Baptists to pray that "God will raise up an army of Godly men."

Crusaders on jihad.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

06-14-13, 10:16 PM (EST)
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54. "Cat Ducks Out"
LAST EDITED ON 06-14-13 AT 10:19 PM (EST)

And once again the BSA is taking it on the chin.

http://news.yahoo.com/caterpillar-drops-boy-scouts-support-213535524.html?.tsrc=_messenger/

Caterpillar Inc. is no longer giving money to the Boy Scouts because the organization discriminates against homosexuals, a spokeswoman for the Illinois-based heavy equipment manufacturer confirmed Thursday.

Never should have made that policy decision in 1991 in the first place, it was just politics. Last year after deciding to not change the policy the BSA lost donors like Intel and UPS and Merck, many youths left Scouting in protest (membership dropped around 65,000 with a big decline in the Cubs program), Eagle Scouts were returning their medals in protest, and so on. (And worth mentioning, over the past 12 years or so there have been troops which allowed openly gay boys to remain in the program in defiance of the ban.)

There are even columnists all over the web protesting that the continued ban on openly gay adults perpetuates the myth that pedophiles are homosexuals, amongst its other sins. Well, perhaps that's true, but that's not why the BSA created the policy.

In the 1960s the BSA realized it had a growing problem with pedophilia. Thanks to the baby boom Scouting was expanding rapidly at that time. So they decided to take the problem seriously, got more serious about screening adults, checking on backgrounds, investigating and trying to root out pedophiles. Not being the police or the courts, or a church trying to sweep it under the rug, the BSA actually could act to remove their suspects from Scouting if they felt they had sufficient cause. In the 1980s the BSA realized they really weren't doing enough, and in 1988 implemented the Youth Protection Program designed to teach children it was okay to report inappropriate activity and so on. They also made it policy that no adult leader could ever be alone with a child (except if they are parent/child). They have improved upon that program since.

Anyway, they didn't put the gay ban into effect because of pedophilia.

It was political. In the 1970s as the gay rights movement was really just getting on its feet, and in the 1980s as the gay rights movement got more and more speed, coming out publically, being openly gay, was a political statement. And the Reactionary Right became more and more paranoid about "The Gay Agenda!" (as they like to call it). That's why the the BSA ended up making that policy, to appease the the right-wingers who were protesting that openly gay gays were inappropriately politicking up Scouting.

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tribephyl 9688 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

06-16-13, 03:54 PM (EST)
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56. "RE: Oh noes. My evil plan has been uncovered!"
Well... I know of at least one duck who could bring it all back around...
Queer Duck (and his "husband", Openly Gator)
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