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Snidget 41335 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-07-12, 06:43 PM (EST) "Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." So if they frack the heck out of a couple of counties near me they expect we will get... wait for it... enough natural gas for our state, and our state alone for a grand total of... Must be a lot of years if we are going to risk the environment, right? 5.6 years. For just our state. And now all over the TV is "I'm an energy voter" whatever that means ads. For a couple of years of production they are not going to train up a bunch of locals for the high paying jobs, IMO, either. Can't we at least do it for enough gas to outlast however long the wells near the sites will be contaminated, etc? *sigh*   Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... cahaya 06-07-12 1    Got Frack? foonermints 07-12-12 23  RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... kingfish 06-07-12 2    RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... Snidget 06-07-12 3        RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... kingfish 06-08-12 6            RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... Snidget 06-08-12 7                RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... kingfish 06-08-12 9                    RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... Snidget 06-08-12 11  RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... Starshine 06-08-12 4    RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... Snidget 06-08-12 5  RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... grit 06-08-12 8  RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... Tummy 06-08-12 10    RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... Snidget 06-08-12 12        RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... kingfish 06-08-12 13            RE: Fracking...coming soon to a cou... Snidget 06-08-12 14  Coming soon right here. Estee 06-09-12 15  Just as a pure thought experiment IceCat 06-09-12 16  How to over-ride a veto in North Ca... Snidget 07-11-12 17    RE: How to over-ride a veto in Nort... Estee 07-11-12 18  Shouldn't be an issue . . . AyaK 07-12-12 19    RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . . Snidget 07-12-12 20        RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . . kingfish 07-12-12 21            RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . . Snidget 07-12-12 22                RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . . kingfish 07-13-12 24                RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . . AyaK 07-13-12 25                    RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . . Snidget 07-13-12 26                        RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . . Estee 07-13-12 27                        RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . . AyaK 07-13-12 28                            RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . . kingfish 07-13-12 29                                Securities fraud AyaK 07-13-12 31                                    RE: Securities fraud kingfish 07-13-12 33                            RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . . Snidget 07-13-12 30                                RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . . AyaK 07-13-12 32  5 reasons cahaya 07-29-12 34

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cahaya 17460 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-07-12, 08:01 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." Well, frack 'em, tell 'em to go frack 'emselves. And same goes for the frackin' politicians. Before they totally frack up the environment beyond repair.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

foonermints 11067 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-12-12, 11:28 PM (EST) 23. "Got Frack?" Frick can't be far behind... Handcrafted by RollDdice   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 14346 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-07-12, 08:38 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." The damage has been done. The Oil and Gas industry have been using fracking techniques for wells for over 60 years, at least. The latest move into shale gas reservoirs which are estimated to hold vast amounts of natural gas has made the public more aware of drilling techniques including fracking. But anytime you drill thru a water reservoir to get at a lower formation you run the risk of contamination. That horse has been out of the barn for a long time, for the most part without damage to water supplies. Refined natural gas is a clean burning fuel, and can conceivably replace coal as a fuel for power plants, and even gas/diesel powered engines.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 41335 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-07-12, 10:09 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." I understand the advantages of natural gas. Just the proponents make it sound like we will have unlimited fuel in this state for centuries and huge numbers of high paying jobs. For something this size they are going to bring in a few high paid people for a few years, higher a few locals at next to no money, and it certainly doesn't sound like we are getting some huge amount of fuel. I'm not certain they've done enough evaluation in this area, and I don't know if the "gain" is going to be worth the potential damage. How many homes do you have to put on city water (if possible) or truck water to per month's worth of fuel for how many people? For me something about the benefit to risk just seems off. I mean 100 years of natural gas for our state seems much worth a risk than 5 years worth. Yea, I know we've been mucking up the environment in all kinds of ways for a really long time, just wondering why now, and why in a location that doesn't sound like it really is going to be a big boon in any sort of way. Other than a need to give business as much free reign as possible to try to stave off the inevitable swing back to Democrat in the state legislature by an election cycle or two by getting enough donations from out of state to ensure the incumbents can't lose. Not that the Democrats are any better when they are in power. Well and that we have a history in this state of taking in industries that are fracking up the environment somewhere else with a vague promise of "we do it better, now, really, we won't screw you over!!!" only to have to enact a moratorium on the industry within a decade of when they start moving in and taking over. I guess that makes me leary, we've said sure, come here, we won't regulate you as you aren't doing it the "bad" way anymore and we believe your new way can't possibly damage anything in anyway...oops, sorry about the moratorium, but we still need the tourism dollars more than we need your industry. What is that they say about doing the same thing over and over expecting different results?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 14346 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-08-12, 08:50 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." I assume the alternative to Natural Gas for power production in NC is coal? Eastern coal? Sulfurous Eastern coal? Or Nuclear plant power, and although I feel that that is the best alternative, good luck getting one of those permitted and funded., They do produce a lot of jobs though, especially in the construction phase. The 5 year estimate sounds way off, from what I'm hearing, but if it's accurate, that does sound like a lot of trouble to go to for not much gain. Advice? buy some acreage in the production areas. I have friends in N. Louisiana (Haynesville shale) who have fairly modest tracts (10 acres or so) that are pulling in lease money in the thousands, far more than they paid for the land. The new money that the Dowdens of "Bayou Billionaire" stumbled onto was the result of this. The same controversy in regard to the water pollution problem exists there. In addition, nearby lake water levels are being lowered because of the need for a lot of water to drill/produce these wells, and there are fears that the salt water injection (they pump salt water out of the well they are drilling and have to dispose of it by pumping it down again thru other wells) might not be a great idea.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 41335 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-08-12, 09:29 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." Well, if we could convince the agriculture industry to do any sort of investing in waste management (which they won't do because they will only do the cheapest waste management) we could probably make enough methane to satisfy all our natural gas needs from now until the end of time. Without building any new farms, just dealing with the ones that we have before the moratorium took place. We have a few farms doing that, and even small scale on the farm only using part of the waste they usually can generate enough electricity to run the entire farm and sell some back to the grid. The problem is the grid isn't really set up for having all these small sites adding in. They can handle a few, but would need to do some upgrading to the system for this to take off, and that costs money that no one is willing to invest or spend. The problem is the methane collection (either ship it off site or generate electricity on site and sell off the excess) has costs to set up and usually you have to have a technician come out when something goes wrong. Most farmers can fix the pump that sprays the waste on the fields and the cesspool just sits there most of the time without any intervention or need of technical support. They are trying to get some of these alternatives into the system, but there isn't a big lobby with lots of money for ads every 10 minutes saying "I'm an energy voter" or to fund PACS to buy elections behind producing energy from waste materials. One system they were looking at was off-site methane generation. They are getting more backing from some parts of the the food industry as a way to deal with their waste (as this system can use both kinds of waste). The pilot project produced methane and also agricultural/garden supplements by composting what you couldn't get the methane out of. It would involve costs for the trucks to bring the stuff to the locations, but it minimizes the number of separate installations and tech personnel needs for each individual farm. The problem is the start up costs. If we had the political will we could install a series of these methane stations and likely could reduce pollution from the farms (both greenhouse gases and the ammonia that is messing up the coastal areas), create energy and value added products in garden centers for several states. Unfortunately they wrote up the "do something about the hog industry" to include "only if it is as cheap or cheaper in the short run than what they do now". Not much is cheaper than dumping the waste into a clay lined pit and let it sit there. I saw a lot of very innovative ways of dealing with the waste and most of them included some sort of energy production or product you could sell to try to mitigate the costs. However as I said, what we do now with the hog and other farm waste is so cheap that no one is willing to bear the costs, well until they've fracked all they can, then maybe we will look at using all the abundant methane we just let leak into the atmosphere rather than spend a few bucks to capture it. Eventually natural gas will get rare enough, expensive enough or too polluting enough to get out of the ground and we will do something with the methane we don't have to drill for. It was really depressing evaluating all the great pilot projects on hog farms where they tried to see what we could do with hog waste as we knew it was unlikely any of them could in anyway be cheap enough to be implemented and the economic stats were going to over-ride any assessment from the scientific monitoring team. FTW. Own small part of a couple of natural gas wells drilled the old fashioned way. So I'm not some never drill kinda person as much of the family land in the old country (Canada) has some potential for income other than what you can grow on it. I dunno how cheap the land where they are planning to frack is. Some of it is in bedroom community outer suburb areas so that will be a lot more than some of the much more rural parts of the state.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 14346 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-08-12, 10:47 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." Certainly, natural methane sources from landfills and farm waste should be utilized to the greatest extent economically feasible. I don't know how to do the math offhand, but I suspect that the low pressure methane production from from these sources wouldn't amount to very much in the big picture, and would require very large areas to be devoted to this to make a dent in the needs. So, do you want a lot of behemoth landfills (which, clay lined or not, have their own water/air polluting potential risks), or gas well. Or, strip mined coal mountains, or pricey mideast oil, or nuclear reactors in goeological fault zones?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 41335 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-08-12, 12:34 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." We do a lot of damage to the environment and I really wish we could find a way to use up waste and pollution to make energy rather than damage even more of the environment than we already have. But that isn't the American Way. I'd love to see more of a push for renewable energy sources rather than this seeming desperation to avoid those for as long as possible to make sure we destroy as much of the earth as possible to get the last bit of waste products from the ancient past. And I know Wind and Hydroelectric, making energy from waste and pollution, and all that have their own issues, but I think if we worked at it we could make those a lot more affordable and efficient. And I am resigned to the fact we won't do that until the last bit of hydrocarbon is squeezed, fracked, dug, or whatever out of the earth and burned as inefficiently as possible with the greatest amount of soot released as is allowed. Clean and efficient is just too expensive.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Starshine 4520 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Stuff Magazine Centerfold" 06-08-12, 03:44 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." I'd worry more about The Earthquakes   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 41335 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-08-12, 07:06 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." LAST EDITED ON 06-08-12 AT 07:11 AM (EST) Yea, the tremors are a little more widespread than the well contamination. Hey at least being able to light your tap water on fire is a great party trick. http://www.propublica.org/article/scientific-study-links-flammable-drinking-water-to-fracking ETA: Although I am more concerned about where they plan to dump the fluid they inject that comes back up. That has not been well regulated in other areas (hey, there's a creek, that'll do) and I'm not sure they have really made sure we actually know which chemicals they will use to frack or what the waste fluid treatment plan is. The industry has been problematic in other areas, and from other industries that have come here the changes they made to avoid the problems that got them kicked out of states that started to regulate them has another set of problems. And the industries know there are states (and Mexico) with even less ability or desire to regulate environmental damage so I'm pretty sure as soon as the methane hits the fan they'll move on just like the hog industry did.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

grit 4859 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Stuff Magazine Centerfold" 06-08-12, 09:56 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." It's funny you mention this now. Just last week, I saw the movie "Gasland". It was pretty interesting. There have been a lot of "No Fracking" signs here in the Shawangunk area for a few years but I had no idea what it was about. Hopefully, Cuomo keeps the oil companies from fracking in the Shawangunk/Catskill area. Agman celebrated 10,000 posts and all I got was this lousy t-shirt fabulous sigpic.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Tummy 3412 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 06-08-12, 11:22 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." Well, if you know anybody that has their CDL license tell them to get their tanker/hazmat endorsements and be ready to work their butt off and make a truck full of money. Plus anyone with an extra room to rent out can sit back and make some extra moolah. A room in North Dakota goes from anywhere from 800.00 to 1200.00 a month.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 41335 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-08-12, 01:03 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." LAST EDITED ON 06-08-12 AT 01:05 PM (EST) Peeps with space to rent may be the only winners in this. There is a fair amount of concern that most of the money will be made by people who are transferred here for a few years and then sent to the next place, so most of the $$ will leave with them, but at least they will have to rent a home/room and eat while they are here. May depend on whose estimates you go by, but it sounds like this may be more of a hit and run operation than a settle in for the long haul. At least maybe some of the truckers hired, as well as some of the construction people may be local, but you don't know how much they'll just bring in experienced people from out of state rather than training up what they need here. North Dakota from some 2009 Maps has some of the larger reserves in the country. NC was one of the states with the lowest, so I don't see this as any kind of long term operation. Because there isn't that much and it is just a few counties I suspect that unless they find a lot more it will pretty easy for them to just close up shop if there gets to be much push back if/when environmental problems arise. http://205.254.135.7/oil_gas/natural_gas/data_publications/crude_oil_natural_gas_reserves/cr.html ETA: http://www.thepilot.com/news/2012/jun/08/fracking-debate-moves-ahead-despite-new-study-show/ has maps of where there even is anything to possibly frack in the state, and the drop in how many years from 40 to 5.6 based on the more recent analysis.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 14346 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-08-12, 01:18 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." If it happens there like in N. Louisiana there will be a lot of local land owners that will be giddy rich. But you're right, 5 years doesn't seem like it it would worth the effort. And that should translate to economic terms, which should discourage a profit minded developer, which should be good news for you. Chesapeake is the developer in N. La. and in other parts of the country.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 41335 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-08-12, 01:53 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Fracking...coming soon to a county near me." That is basically what happened with the hog farms when they came in. During the Depression (I think) a lot of the share croppers were given small farms. Unfortunately a lot of the land was close to played out and a lot of peeps ended up living in the cities where they could get some job and services but were stuck with a small farm that wasn't in good enough shape to sell as a farm, and too far away from anything for a country estate, but you still had to pay the taxes on. Then the industrial hog farms came in. They don't need much land, so these small farm plots were just the right size for a couple of barns, a lagoon and some spray fields. They paid well over the going rate for the farms so there was a lot of people more than willing to sell their land. Really didn't bother many people as most of them were in poor, rural, minority areas. Then they started building them where you could smell them on the Golf Courses in Southern Pines. That opened up a can of trouble. And brought it to the attention of people that they were putting barns and spray fields within a few hundred feet of people's houses. *waits for the people freaked out by a toilet flush contaminating their tooth brush to think of a spray field on a lightly breezy day next to their house*   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 51768 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-09-12, 08:20 PM (EST) 15. "Coming soon right here." There was an anti-fracking protest today, a few counties over. It sounds like someone's trying to get it going near the Delaware River. Major problem for waterway pollution: it'll take out at least two states if they start it here with the option to upgrade depending on how far upstream they kick in. No idea what the potential yield is in natural gas. Environment damage, however, could equal 'lots'.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

IceCat 17194 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-09-12, 09:46 PM (EST) 16. "Just as a pure thought experiment" ... Question: How much money would it take to get actress Katee Sackoff to do a series of sexy PR ads for the natural gas industry.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 41335 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-11-12, 05:40 PM (EST) 17. "How to over-ride a veto in North Carolina" Hold the vote after the bedtimes of the opposition party. Hope one of them mashes the wrong button. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/03/3357704/state-senate-overrides-gov-perdues.html   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 51768 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-11-12, 05:49 PM (EST) 18. "RE: How to over-ride a veto in North Carolina" Don't worry. By the next session, the buttons will be disconnected. Oh, frack.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

AyaK 9398 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-12-12, 05:59 PM (EST) 19. "Shouldn't be an issue . . ." . . . at least, as long as the procedures are followed. http://phys.org/news/2012-07-fracking-undertaken-safely-effective.html   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 41335 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-12-12, 08:45 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . ." So you are saying they will be the first and only to actually follow the procedures once they are allowed to operate in NC? We've not had much luck with companies following procedures as they'd rather pay the fines and lawsuits after they get caught doing it the cheap way rather than according to procedure. Even in the long term it seems cheaper to do it the polluting way. But I might be cynical.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 14346 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-12-12, 09:47 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . ." I'm the cynic. Do you use natural gas? Is it used in NC? If so, there shouldn't an objection with mining it in your state. I have a problem with the selfishness and hypocrisy of states that are consumers of gas and oil and yet aren't willing to let it be mined in their state. Off shore included. Just about all types of mining have potential safety and pollution problems that can associated with them, including the refining, transportation and distribution aspects. My position would be if drilling and production is banned, utilization should also be banned. It is important however to have sufficient regulations to keep the producers honest and workers safe.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 41335 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-12-12, 10:08 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . ." LAST EDITED ON 07-12-12 AT 10:13 PM (EST) That's mostly the problem. This state is very bad about regulating and enforcing the rules. You really think a legislature that is becoming famous for unusual voting procedures...Why can't they ever put anything to a vote while the sun is up? Are they are vampires? Anyway they gotta play games to get stuff passed you really think they are in any way interested in making corporations play fair and by the rules? ETA: And I have personal experience of just how many times my relatives have had to sue gas and oil drillers because they apparently are constitutionally incapable of following the regulations or even basic ideas of fairness. /edit. I'm not generally against mining/drilling but so far I really haven't seen much in the way of effective or even sufficient regulation in this state of any industry. If they had any interest in ever having oversight of anything... Too much let them do what they want and if they mess something up fine them just enough to screw the end user but not effect in any way the profits made by the top executives. Heck did you hear about our electricity merger? The CEO for a day got a $44 million severance package. I'm sure the quit before the merger pay out was a heck of a lot less. I'll quit any job after one day for $4 million.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 14346 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-13-12, 09:20 AM (EST) 24. "RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . ." You do need effective regulations and enforcement as well as competent (and honest) legislatures. A pet peeve of mine are the states that utilize products from the oil and gas industry yet refuse to allow drilling and production. California and their off shore prohibitions heads the list of hypocrites IMO.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

AyaK 9398 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-13-12, 01:41 PM (EST) 25. "RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . ." You've misread what happened in the Duke Energy merger. Basically, Duke Energy wanted to take over Progress Energy, but Progress Energy didn't trust Duke and refused. So Duke offered to make the Progress CEO the CEO of the merged company, which led Progress to agree to the merger. Because Duke was larger, it gotr two-thirds of the board seats in the merged company. Then the former Duke directors voted as a bloc, on the day the merger went into effect, to fire the Progress CEO and bring back the Duke CEO as the CEO of the merged company. In other words, Duke's directors pre-planned a Duke takeover and lied about it. That's a blatant securities law violation. But the Duke CEO is a BIG Obama contributor, and he expects the Feds to look the other way. He may be right. After all, Obama=crook.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 41335 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-13-12, 02:06 PM (EST) 26. "RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . ." Quit, fired, still I'm not sure he would have gotten the $44 million the day before the merger. I'm sure he would have gotten something. Still, I'll get fired after one day of a new job/promotion for a lot less than that. There seems to be equal outrage between the concept that they did a bait and switch over who would run the monsterously large mergered corp and how much the guy got paid off for his 1 day of service. I'm not sure any administration would do anything about this, of any party. But there is that cynical thing again. Do you really think McCain or Palin would have done anything, or that Romney would?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 51768 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-13-12, 02:10 PM (EST) 27. "RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . ." Romney would have known to skim ten percent.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

AyaK 9398 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-13-12, 02:25 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . ." LAST EDITED ON 07-13-12 AT 02:27 PM (EST) Your comment indicates to me that you still don't understand what went on. Duke Power basically paid Progress CEO Bill Johnson a huge amount of money in an effort to shut him up. The reason those huge penalties were put into the deal were to block the former Duke directors from doing exactly what they did. Instead, Duke treated the payout to Johnson as part of the cost to acquire Progress Energy outright. Had they known what was going to happen, there is no doubt in my mind that the Progress Energy directors would not have proceeded with the merger. You seem to dismiss this or treat it as a joke. It's not. What it is is fraud. People who commit fraud should go to jail. Yes, that means former/new Duke CEO Jim Rogers, as well as his fellow Duke directors. And the merger should be nullified, as it was facilitated through fraud. Yes, I do think a Romney-led Justice Department would make that happen. No, I don't think an Obama-led Justice Department will make that happen. Heck, I expect Obama to give Rogers a Presidential medal for creativity instead. Edited to add: I'm not sure that a McCain-led Justice Department would understand the deal well enough to make that happen, though. Or that it even would have been competent enough to make that happen.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 14346 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-13-12, 03:17 PM (EST) 29. "RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . ." Holder is too busy selling weapons to the drug cartels to worry about a little thing like that.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

AyaK 9398 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-13-12, 04:28 PM (EST) 31. "Securities fraud" Probably true. Or, at least, too busy covering up. The Duke Energy deal is proof that what we needed wasn't a new law (the dreadful Dodd-Frank fiasco) but rather enforcement of the laws already on the books. Securities fraud is illegal. But Jim Rogers and his Duke Energy board pulled a blatant fraud, of a kind that's been illegal since at least 1934 and expect to get away with it scot-free. And they probably will. The reason I think Romney would be better to deal with this than Obama is that Romney would understand the fraud. When you deliberately lie to someone to make a deal, that's fraud. This deal wouldn't have been made as a takeover, because the Progress Energy board wasn't comfortable with Duke Energy. Duke's idea was basically to lie about its intentions and then pay hush money to Bill Johnson to quiet the inevitable lawsuits. We'll see how well that works out. http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/07/06/uproar-over-c-e-o-s-ouster-at-merged-energy-giant/ For his part, Mr. Johnson has received a lucrative exit package, according to a securities filing. He will receive payments of about $44 million, which includes a $7.4 million severance. He receives a lump-sum payment of $1.5 million so long as he does not disparage Duke and cooperates with the company. But others aren't keeping quiet. Duke just expects that no one will listen to them. “It was a critical element in the merger deliberations of our board because we had confidence that Bill would successfully lead the combined companies,” Mr. Mullin said. “I do not believe that a single director of Progress would have voted for this transaction” had Mr. Rogers been kept in place as Duke’s chief executive, he wrote.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 14346 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-13-12, 07:24 PM (EST) 33. "RE: Securities fraud" The holder/Obama Justice Department also has been pretty busy with the important work of trying to find Clemens guilty of lying about using steroids (the Gov't lost the case), or of Nancy Black for lying about feeding whales. You can only expect so much of incompetent boobs. Government in Action -- Big Fish: The U.S. Department of Justice has been widely criticized for failing to bring to fruition investigations of Wall Street traders' alleged lies (such as accusations that the firm MFS Global made bets on European bonds by illegally using clients' money, of which CEO Jon Corzine suspiciously professed to be unaware). However, in several notable instances, its investigators have been relentless -- for instance, prosecuting baseball's Roger Clemens for lying to Congress and, in January, indicting marine biologist Nancy Black, who faces 20 years in prison for allegedly lying to investigators about whether her crew might have illegally fed whales to attract their attention for a boatload of whale-watchers. http://tinyurl.com/73l9vpy   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 41335 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-13-12, 04:16 PM (EST) 30. "RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . ." Generally most people's including mine, understanding of the deal was that something fishy has been going on from the get go and there of course is fraud involved at all levels of it. I'm also cynical enough to believe that the corporations involved have enough money, especially combined, that they will buy off anyone who even looks like they are going to win their election (or super pac whoever they need into office) and there really isn't anything anyone in the country can do about it anymore. Wanna hear cynical...Might as well change the Constitution to We the Incorporated as I don't think there is any way we the people will get the power back. Well I suppose we could storm the corporate office, but they'd just have us all arrested. I'm still one of the little people that is going to have to pay off that severance package as well as the merger and should there ever be any repercussions the fines, the lawyers and everything else with my rate increases. So if joking about it keeps me from crying...well too bad.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

AyaK 9398 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-13-12, 04:33 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Shouldn't be an issue . . ." >I'm still one of the little people that is going to >have to pay off that severance package as well as >the merger and should there ever be any repercussions the >fines, the lawyers and everything else with my rate increases. > So if joking about it keeps me from crying...well too bad. That's what ticks me off so much about this deal. Basically, Duke stole funds from its customers to overpay for Progress, and then its customers are also going to pay for Duke's legal defense bills. That's also why nothing other than jail time will discouraqge such fraud. Fines don't hurt Duke. They'll just pass them through to you. But jail terms . . . .   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

cahaya 17460 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 07-29-12, 02:23 PM (EST) 34. "5 reasons" ... and one should be enough.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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