The Amazing Race   American Idol   The Apprentice   The Bachelor   The Bachelorette   Big Brother   The Biggest Loser
Dancing with the Stars   So You Think You Can Dance   Survivor   Top Model   The Voice   The X Factor       Reality TV World
   
Reality TV World Message Board Forums
PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats, but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are encouraged to read the complete guidelines. As entertainment critic Roger Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
"The Dharun Ravi verdict."
Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
 
Previous Topic | Next Topic 
Conferences Off-Topic Forum (Protected)
Original message

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-16-12, 11:23 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
"The Dharun Ravi verdict."
Locally, this is just about the only news story we have. And from what I understand, it's gone national on the typical major level -- the one where we'll have about one to three days of declaiming from all sides and then people will find something else to rally for or against. The public forgets.

But since the hot zone is here and now, I'm curious as to how much coverage y'all got -- ours was at the 'goodbye, tournament' level -- and what you think of the verdict. Oh, and the charges. Possibly even the laws which produced the charges, because the Internet commentary I've been reading actively includes all three, usually with active misunderstanding across the board.

Normally I'd provide a link, but the problem is in the 'a'. I don't even know where to start.

  Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. Starshine 03-17-12 1
   RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. Estee 03-17-12 2
   RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. PepeLePew13 03-17-12 8
   I blame you guys across the pond. newsomewayne 03-19-12 20
       RE: I blame you guys across the pon... Estee 03-19-12 21
       RE: I blame you guys across the pon... Starshine 03-22-12 26
           RE: I blame you guys across the pon... kingfish 02-05-13 49
 The Internet is for porn ang... Estee 03-17-12 3
 The New Yorker story. Estee 03-17-12 4
 RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. kidflash212 03-17-12 5
   RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. Estee 03-17-12 7
       RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. kidflash212 03-17-12 9
           RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. Estee 03-17-12 10
 RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. PepeLePew13 03-17-12 6
 RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. Snidget 03-17-12 11
 RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. Estee 03-17-12 12
 RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. dabo 03-17-12 13
   Regarding (especially) #2, #4, #6, ... Estee 03-17-12 14
       RE: Regarding (especially) #2, #4, ... dabo 03-17-12 15
           RE: Regarding (especially) #2, #4, ... Estee 03-17-12 16
 And then there's this. Estee 03-17-12 17
 Luck of the draw. Estee 03-18-12 18
 Because pardons solve everything. Estee 03-19-12 19
 RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. Brownroach 03-22-12 22
   RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. Estee 03-22-12 23
       RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. dabo 03-22-12 24
           RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. Estee 03-22-12 25
               RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. Brownroach 03-23-12 27
                   RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. Estee 03-23-12 28
 Defense files for verdict dismissal... Estee 05-02-12 29
 Sentencing today. Estee 05-21-12 30
 The sentence. Estee 05-21-12 31
   RE: The sentence. Snidget 05-21-12 35
   RE: The sentence. Max Headroom 05-21-12 36
       RE: The sentence. Estee 05-21-12 37
 Internet go boom. Estee 05-21-12 32
   RE: Internet go boom. dabo 05-21-12 34
       RE: Internet go boom. jbug 05-21-12 38
           RE: Internet go boom. Estee 05-21-12 39
               RE: Internet go boom. qwertypie 05-21-12 44
 RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. kingfish 05-21-12 33
   RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. cahaya 05-21-12 41
       RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. kingfish 05-21-12 43
 One person's happy. Estee 05-21-12 40
 RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict. Estee 05-21-12 42
 1/3rd off sale. Estee 05-23-12 45
 Ravi to enter prison Thursday. Estee 05-29-12 46
 Released. Estee 06-19-12 47
 The Tyler Clementi Center opens at ... Estee 02-05-13 48
   RE: The Tyler Clementi Center opens... cahaya 02-06-13 50

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Messages in this topic

Starshine 4934 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Stuff Magazine Centerfold"

03-17-12, 02:26 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Starshine Click to send private message to Starshine Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
1. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
LAST EDITED ON 03-17-12 AT 02:28 AM (EST)

One page article on the BBC.

Seems odd to me that he was offered a deal which guaranteed no deportation and no gaol time. Seems even odder that he turned it down. Spying on anyone is surely a fairly serious crime.

Haven't read that much on it, but hate crime sounds a little strong to me, I think he would have done much the same had he videocamed his room-mate kissing a girl, but I could have missed something.

I know what the end result was, however I don't think that Dharun Ravi had any intention of causing anything like that.

Changing sig

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 06:41 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
2. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
Naturally there was enough scandal here for the British press to grab it. *sigh* I now know it's also a fairly major story in at least parts of India: Ravi is a legal resident of the U.S, but it turns out he's not a citizen -- which means that after any possible jail time is concluded, as you caught, he could potentially be deported.

As I understand it, the last deal offered no jail time (600 hours of community service) and promised that the state would help him fight deportation, but couldn't guarantee it. Local articles seem to point towards the family refusing to take it because pride wouldn't allow them to admit guilt.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 11:20 AM (EST)
Click to EMail PepeLePew13 Click to send private message to PepeLePew13 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
8. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
I think the difference is that there is documentation that he negatively expressed his feelings about his roommate being gay before even arriving at Rutgers (in Estee's link below, he repeatedly said something along the lines of "he's gay, WTF WTF WTF...") which could be interpreted as being homophobic so if it's decided that he is homophobic, then the videotaping and turning Tyler into a figure of public scorn is clearly a form of hate crime to me.

If it was a matter of Dharun not being comfortable of Tyler's sexuality and saying what he said on twitter and stopping right there, I think the matter would have been closed right there and handled privately/internally, but the fact that webcam spying and a resulting death only days after that took place raised to a new level.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

newsomewayne 9065 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-19-12, 07:47 AM (EST)
Click to EMail newsomewayne Click to send private message to newsomewayne Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
20. "I blame you guys across the pond."
I mean, if y'all just done a better job handling your colony, he might not have even been here to commit the crime.


Never delay the ending of a meeting or the beginning of a cocktail hour.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-19-12, 08:00 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
21. "RE: I blame you guys across the pond."
I freely admit I was waiting for some kind of Official Local GOP Representative Response regarding the case.

I just as freely admit I wasn't expecting that statement to be it.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Starshine 4934 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Stuff Magazine Centerfold"

03-22-12, 07:02 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Starshine Click to send private message to Starshine Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26. "RE: I blame you guys across the pond."
Don't blame us, the last time we gave the colony a spanking was 1812, it's had plenty of time to grow up.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

02-05-13, 07:36 PM (EST)
Click to EMail kingfish Click to send private message to kingfish Click to view user profile Click to send message via ICQ Click to check IP address of the poster
49. "RE: I blame you guys across the pond."
There is a difference of opinion on this side of the pond as to who spanked who.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 06:51 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
3. "The Internet is for porn anger."
Some of the comments I've seen have to be dismissed as heavy-duty trolling. (I hope.) There's a lot of trying to blame the victim. A lot of it. Screaming about how the act captured/attempted to be broadcast should be the crime. We've already got at least one FreeDharun site.

More than a little of the above is completely serious.

There's been accusations of racism. (One of my favorite comments on this noted that if the jury finds against Ravi, they're clearly racist, but if they found for him, they're just as clearly homophobic. Lose-lose.)

Reactions ranging from disbelief to fury on the wording of the law because it seems to force the jurors to use any evidence as a means of essentially reading minds.

More blaming the victim, this time for being "weak". I wish I could believe all those people were trolls.

There are days when I would argue for the Internet itself as a single ongoing hate crime.


  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 09:20 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
4. "The New Yorker story."
This is not about the trial, but the events leading up to it. I'm told the story itself has come under some degree of fire, but until I find out just where those flames are supposed to be, it remains the most complete account I could find.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/02/06/120206fa_fact_parker?currentPage=all

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kidflash212 3854 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"

03-17-12, 09:58 AM (EST)
Click to EMail kidflash212 Click to send private message to kidflash212 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
5. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
Seeing as we live in the same media market, my coverage is mostly the same as yours. And there is quite a bit of coverage of some gay blogs that I read.

As far as the charges, I do think Dharun did something wrong. Secretly videotaping anyone and broadcasting it is an invasion of privacy. Had he planted a camera in a Victoria's Secret dressing room and broadcast it, there would be no discussion of whether it was a crime or not.

The "bias intimidation" charges are not as clear to me. I agree with the defense's depiction of Dharun as a spoiled, arrogant, privledged d-bag who looked down on his roommate and treated him as fodder for jokes. But if those personality traits were illegal, there would be a lot more room to sit on the subway. I don't think Dharun ever considered that Tyler might be pushed to the point of suicide and I can't totally blame him for Tyler's actions. It may have been the proverbial straw that broke the camels back (Tyler checked Dharun's twitter account over thirty times in the days before his suicide, so clearly it was on his mind) but there was a lot piled on that camel before that final straw. Ultimately, Tyler is responsible for jumping off that bridge.



Capn2patch put me in motion!

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 11:05 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
7. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
I'd truly appreciate links to those blogs. I'm almost desperate at this point to get a non-mass-media side of this.

As I understand it, bias intimidation twinned to invasion of privacy and disclosure/broadcast means 'Is the defendant committing this invasive act because the victim is gay, with the intent of inducing fear in that victim through it?' It's saying you can have a hate crime without a physical attack -- which is one of the many problems some very angry people are having with this.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kidflash212 3854 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"

03-17-12, 11:30 AM (EST)
Click to EMail kidflash212 Click to send private message to kidflash212 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
9. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
http://www.kennethinthe212.com/2012/03/tyler-clementis-ex-roommate-guilty.html

http://www.towleroad.com/2012/03/dharun-ravi-found-guilty-of-major-counts-in-tyler-clementi-case/comments/page/2/#comments

These sites might not be for everybody and the links in some of them are definitely not PG-13.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 12:27 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
10. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
What happened to this poor man (which I reached from a site link) was certainly not PG13. There's a lot of other things it wasn't, too.

http://www.towleroad.com/2012/03/neo-nazis-attack-gay-chilean-man-slice-his-ear-burn-him-and-brand-him-with-swastikas.html

I'm sure there's someone out there determined not to label that as a hate crime.

I survived those blogs and their discussions with slightly less effort than I use to survive the average doorknob. The main difference between the commentary I see there and on the mass media sites is that the former is somewhat less likely to have openly homophobic posts and people screaming 'Now we have to make sure we live in gay-free communities because anything we say to them can be a hate crime!' The debate on the rightness of charges and result continues on this front as well. I wasn't expecting universal agreement by any means or even a larger percentage to one side or another, honestly. We all echo each other -- even in the ways we divide.

One species, under a microscope.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 10:19 AM (EST)
Click to EMail PepeLePew13 Click to send private message to PepeLePew13 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
6. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
It's been a story on the news channels up here as well. From what I gather, Dharun Ravi committed cyberbullying in my mind, which likely drove Tyler to jump off a bridge - whether that could be classified as being directly responsible for his death or not, I don't know. Bottom line, Tyler was not treated with dignity or respect from his roommate and was made into a figure of public scorn with the webcam setup, so I have no problem with the charges and verdict against Dharun.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 12:41 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Snidget Click to send private message to Snidget Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
11. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
I really like to hope he didn't intend to make his room-mate off himself, but I have had bullies I think would be happy to film the suicide of their victims and proudly post their accomplishment far and wide expecting universal approval and untold riches as their reward.

I really do believe most people do manage to develop the minimum amount of empathy to have them treat others with some tiny level of respect and decency, but sometimes I see things like this and it makes me wonder what we are doing to make way too many people completely unable to believe any other human being on the planet has emotions or even things like boundaries.

I doubt we can legislate basic respect for others and decency, especially since people who can't believe any other person has emotions that might be hurt also can't seem to believe anyone will ever make them account for any damage that is done.


Spring has Sprung with Tribe

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 01:12 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
12. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
I finally had a neuron fire and headed for the Advocate website.

What I've mostly learned is that my browser has a lot of trouble loading the Advocate website.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 01:46 PM (EST)
Click to EMail dabo Click to send private message to dabo Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
13. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
Felt sorry for the jury having to sort through all those charges.

COUNT 1
4th Degree Invasion of Privacy, related to Tyler Clementi: GUILTY
4th Degree Invasion of Privacy, related to Clementi's guest, M.B.: GUILTY
(Observed Clementi/M.B. in sexual contact without their consent on Sept. 19)

If Guilty, jury proceeds to count 2; if Not Guilty, jury skips count 2 and proceeds to count 3

COUNT 2
3rd Degree Bias Intimidation
(For 4th Degree Invasion of Privacy charge on Sept. 19)

Invasion of Privacy with the purpose to intimidate Tyler Clementi because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

Invasion of Privacy with the purpose to intimidate M.B. because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause Tyler Clementi to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause M.B. to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

Invasion of Privacy, under circumstances that caused Tyler Clementi to be intimidated, and considering the manner in which the offense was committed, Clementi reasonably believed that he was selected to be the target of the offense because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

COUNT 3
3rd Degree Invasion of Privacy, related to Tyler Clementi: GUILTY
3rd Degree Invasion of Privacy, related to M.B.: GUILTY
(Activated webcam so other people could view Clementi/M.B. in sexual contact on Sept 19.)

If Guilty, jury proceeds to count 4; if Not Guilty, jury skips count 4 and proceeds to count 5

COUNT 4
2nd Degree Bias Intimidation
(For 3rd Degree Invasion of Privacy charge on Sept. 19)

Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate Tyler Clementi because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate M.B. because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause Tyler Clementi to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause M.B. to be intimidated, because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

Invasion of Privacy, under circumstances that caused Tyler Clementi to be intimidated, and considering the manner in which the offense was committed, Clementi reasonably believed that he was selected to be the target of the offense because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

COUNT 5
4th Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy, related to Tyler Clementi: GUILTY
4th Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy, related to M.B.: GUILTY
(Tried to observe Clementi/M.B. in sexual contact without their consent on Sept. 21)

If Guilty, jury proceeds to count 6; if Not Guilty, jury skips count 6 and proceeds to count 7

COUNT 6
3rd Degree Bias Intimidation
(For 4th Degree Invasion of Privacy charge on Sept. 21)

Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate Tyler Clementi because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate M.B. because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause Tyler Clementi to be intimated because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause M.B. to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

Invasion of Privacy, under circumstances that caused Tyler Clementi to be intimidated, and considering the manner in which the offense was committed, Clementi reasonably believed that he was selected to be the target of the offense because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

COUNT 7
3rd Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy, related to Tyler Clementi: GUILTY
3rd Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy, related to M.B.: GUILTY
(Tried to show Clementi/M.B. in sexual contact to other people on Sept. 21)

If Guilty, jury proceeds to count 8; if Not Guilty, jury skips count 8 and proceeds to count 9

COUNT 8
2nd Degree Bias Intimidation
(For 3rd Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy charge on Sept. 21)

Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate Tyler Clementi because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate M.B. because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause Tyler Clementi to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause M.B. to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

Invasion of Privacy, under circumstances that caused Tyler Clementi to be intimidated, and considering the manner in which the offense was committed, Clementi reasonably believed that he was selected to be the target of the offense because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

COUNT 9
4th Degree Tampering with Physical Evidence: GUILTY
(Deleted tweets relevant to police investigation)

COUNT 10
4th Degree Tampering with Physical Evidence: GUILTY
(Wrote and posted a false tweet)

COUNT 11
3rd Degree Hindering Apprehension or Prosecution: GUILTY
(Destroyed evidence relevant to investigation)

COUNT 12
3rd Degree Hindering Apprehension or Prosecution: GUILTY
(Prevented a witness from providing testimony)

COUNT 13
3rd Degree Hindering Apprehension or Prosecution: GUILTY
(Lied to police)

COUNT 14
3rd Degree Witness Tampering: GUILTY
(Tried to influence what Molly Wei told police)

COUNT 15
4th Degree Tampering with Physical Evidence: GUILTY
(Deleted text messages sent to and received from witnesses)

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 02:10 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
14. "Regarding (especially) #2, #4, #6, and #8."
It's thirty-five things to determine, but fifteen charges. For the title numbers, if one item in that group is jury-determined as a guilty verdict, you're sentenced on that charge. All five items for each would have to be found as not guilty in order to avoid that conviction.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 02:20 PM (EST)
Click to EMail dabo Click to send private message to dabo Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
15. "RE: Regarding (especially) #2, #4, #6, and #8."
For the jury that was, then, 35 unanimous votes required to determine everything.

They should have demanded more money.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 02:45 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
16. "RE: Regarding (especially) #2, #4, #6, and #8."
Juror pay in New Jersey: five dollars a day for the first three days, forty dollars for each day from the fourth on. No fund designed for compensation on extra-long trials, no mileage or meal allotment. This one went through three days of selection (which counted for those discount rates) and trial plus deliberations was sixteen more. So each person who wasn't being paid by their regular employment during this period received $655 for their service to the state.

I know two of the jurors were on CNN last night with Anderson Cooper. I hope the network covered their travel expenses.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-17-12, 03:35 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
17. "And then there's this."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Bill

Read it slowly.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-18-12, 10:12 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
18. "Luck of the draw."
LAST EDITED ON 03-18-12 AT 10:16 AM (EST)

Would there have been a hung jury if not for the random pull of an alternate's numbered ball? No way to tell. From what's been said by the deliberating jurors -- the ones who have spoken -- there was more than a little debate on the bias charges, which might have indicated a room initially divided to whatever degree. And one which ultimately came to a consensus. But...

http://www.northjersey.com/news/bergen/bergen_news/031712_RAVIJUROR0318.html

...you have to wonder.

Meanwhile, jail time debates have begun. The Star-Ledger op-ed piece thinks the bias law was poorly worded and prison shouldn't result. Others feel some prison time is warranted, but not the maximum -- ten years if all charges ran concurrently. (The minimum appears to be two, with parole and good behavior as permissible shortening elements.)

There's been a lot of talk about whether this will force people to consider what they say through social media -- beyond the 'I can never speak to a gay person again!' panic shown above by people who already make every attempt to never say anything nice to them anyway. Awareness that what you say really can be used against you, and everything you do online leaves some sort of trail. Open wondering if the hatred now has to find more subtle avenues.

Some people will wake up -- at least to the degree of being more careful about how and where they show their feelings. But others won't. 'They won't get me' is always a rallying cry, and they'll feel that their computer will be as much shield as sword.

But no matter how much the bigots panic and call this thought policing, it's not. They are still free to say whatever they like. But if they act on it, there are new sources of words with which to search for intent.

ETA: Another recurring theme I'm seeing in the articles is that this case puts a major wound in the 'Boys will be boys' defense, also known as 'jerky kid' or 'young and dumb'. I'm curious to see AyaK's take on that one.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-19-12, 06:40 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19. "Because pardons solve everything."
LAST EDITED ON 03-19-12 AT 06:41 AM (EST)

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/NorthAmerica/Indian-Americans-launch-White-House-petition-campaign-for-Ravi/Article1-827661.aspx

I've been seeing links for this petition spammed all over news story commentary regarding this case. Up to this point, it apparently hasn't done that much in the way of gathering support.

Which is clearly in itself yet another indicator of racism. Shame!

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-22-12, 01:41 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Brownroach Click to send private message to Brownroach Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
22. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
Today I heard on the news that he said the verdict makes him feel "energized." No elaboration. I'm not quite sure how to interpret that.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-22-12, 02:44 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
23. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
As 'The jury being so incredibly wrong gives me the strength I need to fight this on appeal.'

http://blog.nj.com/njv_mark_diionno/2012/03/exclusive_interview_dharun_rav.html

To me, it came across as a sneak preview of the testimony he never gave -- along with feeling like the other thing which energized him was seeing all his support (regardless of source or type). He's finally found his official spin and he's trying to sell it to save his life. At least several years of it.

I'm not sure how the judge is going to take this. I think the lead prosecutor would have just taken it apart.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-22-12, 03:10 AM (EST)
Click to EMail dabo Click to send private message to dabo Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
24. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
He seems to think he can get off on appeal since, in his view, it wasn't a hate crime. It was a juvenile indiscretion. He blames the jury, they didn't understand. Nevermind that they followed the instructions from the bench, they just didn't understand, punking is just good fun.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-22-12, 03:21 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
25. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
I'm still waiting for him to explain how he put his computer to sleep from the middle of Ultimate Frisbee practice, then kept right on encouraging teammates to tune in to the autoaccept iChat feed. Afraid to let them know how nice he was? And note that the lead defense attorney was present during the interview. All those who complained about the case being tried in the media should at least be happy for the other side getting in on the fun.

One of the things I keep running into in my ongoing mistake of reading commentary on this case is that few people are denying the end charges -- all the evidence and witness tampering. They just keep saying that without Tyler's death, everything here would be a misdemeanor. So if we're factoring the suicide out, the sentence has to be probation. In other words, he's repeatedly guilty, but please don't punish him for it.

Um...

Read the commentary at your own risk -- of your sanity.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-23-12, 01:42 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Brownroach Click to send private message to Brownroach Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
27. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
I'm taking a paralegal certification course and we were talking about this in class tonight in relation to "invasion of privacy" and other issues. Without the suicide it probably would have resulted in a civil suit, should Tyler have chosen to press one, sans any criminal charges, is what most of us were thinking.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

03-23-12, 06:16 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
28. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
Possible -- but it doesn't change the fact that the criminal violations exist, and the campus police were free to press some on their own. (Lying under interrogation, evidence tampering, etc.) It's also hard to see Tyler as not winning any civil suit: all that evidence is still there, it's just in front of a smaller jury. No matter how the coin is spun, it keeps landing on guilty.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-02-12, 09:05 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
29. "Defense files for verdict dismissal/retrial."
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/dharun_ravi_attorney_seeks_to.html

Meanwhile, there's apparently a protest scheduled outside the statehouse on the 14th, Jim McGreevey has asked for leniency on jail time because it won't teach Ravi anything ( http://blog.nj.com/njv_jim_mcgreevey/2012/04/jim_mcgreevey_dont_make_dharun.html ), and sentencing is still set for the 21st -- which I'm really just looking at as the starting gun for the endless appeal process.


Some days I wonder if anyone in the history of trial procedure has ever accepted that they were found guilty because they were found guilty.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 06:37 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
30. "Sentencing today."
LAST EDITED ON 05-21-12 AT 07:27 PM (EST)

Locally, coverage will be take-out-the-networks live. Nationally and beyond, it's a mess.

The prosecution is asking for jail time based on the convicted having shown zilch in the way of remorse (plus he made a good try at blaming one of the witnesses), not to mention that he was found guilty on all the charges. Defense says the bias statute needs to be nullified, the charges have to be dropped, and not sending Dharun Ravi to prison is more important than deterring anyone else from committing the same crime. The Clementis themselves seem to be on the side of some form of mercy. There has been a protest by Asiatic Indian nationals. India itself doesn't appear to be too thrilled. Some gay rights activists have come down on Dharun's side, feeling that the message has been sent but the messenger doesn't need to be shot: no jail time, they ask. Others are taking the prison angle. And no matter what happens, the sentence will be appealed. If prison is somewhere in the final verdict, the question becomes whether the once-and-future defendant is in jail awaiting a fresh examination or free on bail until it comes.

I have no idea what to expect in the way of a sentence. It's all up to the judge now, and we find out what he's thinking in a few hours. I just know that no matter what it is, there will be people screaming about it.

Waiting.

ETA: Just checked the news: sentencing begins at 9 a.m. EDT. Screaming is scheduled for 8:59.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 12:53 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
31. "The sentence."
LAST EDITED ON 05-21-12 AT 07:29 PM (EST)

Thirty days jail time.

Three years probation.

Three hundred hours community service.

Must go through tolerance and anti-cyberbullying classes.

$10,000 to be paid to a state-recognized organization which aids victims of bias crimes (plus $1905 in mandatory court fees).

Both prosecution and defense are pissed: the second because there's any jail time and the first because there wasn't, in their opinion, enough.

Appeal planned.

ETA: I have to clarify here -- both sides are appealing. As the judge said, he disenchanted everyone.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 04:11 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Snidget Click to send private message to Snidget Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
35. "RE: The sentence."
Sounds like the judge went for the just so long as everyone is equally peeved off I got the job done appropriately approach. If anyone is happy I know I screwed it up.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Max Headroom 10028 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 04:21 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Max%20Headroom Click to send private message to Max%20Headroom Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
36. "RE: The sentence."
You forgot a key item: No deportation back to India.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 04:27 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
37. "RE: The sentence."
No, I didn't -- because it's still potentially on the table. The judge basically said that should deportation hearings take place, he would speak to those officers and recommend against it -- but he has no control over whether that court date ever materializes. It's a separate agency and a completely separate decision. Ravi has been found guilty of a bias crime and he's (theoretically) serving jail time for it. Should Immigration press the That's Enough button, they'll have their cause.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 01:47 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
32. "Internet go boom."
One thousand and nine articles currently available through Google.

I am legitimately afraid to look at the commentary on any of them.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 03:40 PM (EST)
Click to EMail dabo Click to send private message to dabo Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
34. "RE: Internet go boom."
I expect it's gone up to six million and nine by now. I gather he's a first time offender, so I can understand the judge being lenient and sending him to jail rather than prison. Wonder where he'll be sent for community service.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

jbug 16685 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 04:32 PM (EST)
Click to EMail jbug Click to send private message to jbug Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
38. "RE: Internet go boom."
maybe he'll be assigned to help out Aubrey O'Day.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 04:41 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
39. "RE: Internet go boom."
So you want him to go begging for more jail time as the merciful option?
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

qwertypie 9721 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 10:58 PM (EST)
Click to EMail qwertypie Click to send private message to qwertypie Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
44. "RE: Internet go boom."
LAST EDITED ON 05-21-12 AT 11:03 PM (EST)

I know I would.

Besides, everyone knows that SHE should have been the lawyer because she gets things done. If she was a lawyer for the prosecution, then death penalty for you! and as a lawyer for the defense -- complete exoneration of all charges and a reality tv show.

Of course, I am not sure what would happen if she were both the defense and prosecution legal team. She's just that good.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 02:46 PM (EST)
Click to EMail kingfish Click to send private message to kingfish Click to view user profile Click to send message via ICQ Click to check IP address of the poster
33. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
I'm beginning to suspect that this was just another Borat stunt gone really really wrong.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 07:23 PM (EST)
Click to EMail cahaya Click to send private message to cahaya Click to view user profile Click to send message via ICQ Click to check IP address of the poster
41. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
Pink shirt? Purple tie?

Quiz: What type of undies does he have on, and what color are they?

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 08:02 PM (EST)
Click to EMail kingfish Click to send private message to kingfish Click to view user profile Click to send message via ICQ Click to check IP address of the poster
43. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
He got a mighty purdy mouth, too.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 05:14 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
40. "One person's happy."
For the really low value of happy which feels that at least the sentence was right.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/05/dharun_ravi_received_a_light_sentence_for_spying_on_tyler_clementi_.html

What I'm mostly feeling is frustration with the former defendant. I was hoping he would speak in court today. Like the judge, I wanted to see him stand and openly say "I screwed up." Admit that he wronged Tyler, he knew it now, he was older and wiser and not that jerk kid any more, and he'd take whatever was coming to him. And yes, I knew that was just about impossible. But for him to say anything that wasn't a media exclusive -- there was a little hope of that. And then there wasn't.

Before the sentence was handed out, the judge noted that he'd seen the jurors say "Guilty' two hundred and eighty-eight times -- twelve jurors, twenty-four charges/points. He'd never heard Dharun Ravi say "Sorry" once.

I don't think we're ever going to hear it.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-21-12, 07:51 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
42. "RE: The Dharun Ravi verdict."
For the record: I was thinking two to three years (with good behavior option available) and so much community service that he'd next have a weekend to himself around his thirty-fifth birthday. (I was reminded that the original plea offer included 600 hours of the later, which means he got half-price there.) That's not necessarily what I wanted, but it was what I thought he'd be likely to get if the hammer dropped. And instead...

Some of the gay rights activists who were originally saying Dharun should get off relatively lightly are now reversing position and claiming this is too light. Be careful what you advise for.

Just found out Nancy Grace will be speaking about this on her show tonight. One more thing to avoid.

I look at the trial & result and wonder just what message was sent, if any. Wonder what it was all for.

Tyler's father, during his victim impact statement, said justice was something you knew when you saw it. This isn't it.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-23-12, 07:45 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
45. "1/3rd off sale."
Receive a thirty-day sentence and take ten days from it absolutely free. According to the article I just read, it's state policy that when someone gets a county prison term of that length, they preemptively receive a ten-day good behavior credit.

So. Yeah.

The state legislature has responded by declaring their intent to try and increase the penalty for Internet-involved crimes. This started on the GOP side, but I expect it to turn into that increasingly-rare dual party push: there's just that many people who can't dump the WTF? from their expression.

No word on the prosecution's appeal. Or the defense one. Or whether the Ravis have gotten a court order for the Clementis to pay their legal fees.

Yes, I just came up with that last one. But would it really surprise anybody?

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-29-12, 05:35 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
46. "Ravi to enter prison Thursday."
Voluntarily.

Since the appeal is officially in progress, he doesn't have to report and in the wildest of all scenarios, the case might get passed up the line to someone who overturns the verdict and frees him from all requirements. But he's going in anyway, and he also issued (through his attorney) a quasi-apology. 'Quasi' may be generous. He can't admit to hate and he doesn't think he meant to embarrass or humiliate Tyler. Possibly because he still doesn't see it, maybe because someone is worried about the civil end of all this and saying too much here could get him later, could be a combo. But he did at least say some kind of sorry.

Going to prison now, though...

Maybe it's about public image. Perhaps he realized he might never do any better in the sentencing department and this way, he could say he served should a harsher one come along. But is it possible that he finally realized that what he did was truly wrong and he's beginning his own self-imposed penance at last?

I'd like to believe that.

I wish I could.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/dharun_ravi_reports_to_jail.html

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

06-19-12, 03:30 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
47. "Released."
As predicted, the state's auto-policy on good behavior made thirty days into twenty, and he got out a few hours ago. Some groups are calling the limited jail time a travesty, others think that he served any is the travesty, and a few just openly want the right to lead all gay college students to the nearest bridge and push. The Internet is for ugly.

Due to the short length of the sentence, INS will not be seeking a deportation hearing.

Did anyone win this case in any fashion? Did anyone learn anything at all? Those who hate continue to do so. Nothing will change their minds.

Dharun Ravi was never charged with Tyler Clementi's suicide. Invasion of privacy, disclosure, bias, evidence destruction, witness tampering, interference with an investigation. All of those charges brought back guilty verdicts. Twenty days in jail and a lifetime of either trying to explain it away or, just maybe, realization and seeing through the eyes of another. I wouldn't bet on the second option.

I am tired of seeing people champion the actions of one for, in their eyes, causing the death of the other.

Some of them are trolls, out to stir whatever reactions they can. And others are setting up their own cameras, with more tracking and data protection in place, waiting...

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55195 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

02-05-13, 07:29 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
48. "The Tyler Clementi Center opens at Rutgers."
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/02/rutgers_unveils_tyler_clementi.html

Note that the mentioned legislation still has not passed. I do not expect it to pass for as long as the GOP holds the House. I do expect the Center to be regularly picketed. I'm surprised there weren't Westboros out there yesterday.

We push forward. Other push back.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

02-06-13, 00:11 AM (EST)
Click to EMail cahaya Click to send private message to cahaya Click to view user profile Click to send message via ICQ Click to check IP address of the poster
50. "RE: The Tyler Clementi Center opens at Rutgers."
Wow, you dig up an old thresd and there's still news with it.

Maybe legislation will or will not pass, but people will still recognize what happened in this event.

Where I work, with the Kinsey Institute on campus, a red academically liberal island in a blue state, we folks here get it.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top


Lock | Archive | Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
about this site   •   advertise on this site  •   contact us  •   privacy policy   •