The Amazing Race   American Idol   The Apprentice   The Bachelor   The Bachelorette   Big Brother   The Biggest Loser
Dancing with the Stars   So You Think You Can Dance   Survivor   Top Model   The Voice   The X Factor       Reality TV World
   
Reality TV World Message Board Forums
PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats, but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are encouraged to read the complete guidelines. As entertainment critic Roger Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
"Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
 
Previous Topic | Next Topic 
Conferences The Amazing Race Basher Forum (Protected)
Original message

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 09:22 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
"Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
Yes, give us your spare water! Give us a native guide! Give us the right to sit in the middle of the plane for an extra ten minutes too, because while it provides no advantage whatsoever, we don't get to do it and that's just not fair! Give us absolutely everything -- but don't expect to ever get any of it back. Because we just don't do that sort of thing. We're in this thing for ourselves and to set a good example for our daughters, who will be ripping off helpless victims by the time they're fourteen and learn to set up good alibis for it no more than two years later. Because it's not about what you give in this world, it's about what you receive. And we want it all. Now. Tax-free, because we're single moms and if you tax us, we'll whine about it using the words 'single moms' a lot until you give us double our money back. At which point, we will donate one cent of it to our favorite charity: ourselves. Oh, is that you dying on the side of the road? Did we just run over you with our Jeep? Twice? And now you want -- help? Silly! 'Help' is for us! Besides, now that you have no legs, you'll get to board the plane even earlier! That's unfair! Why can't we board the plane before you? We're single moms! We hate you so much!

(I think Karma needs to start flying business class. Obviously it's scrambling to catch up.)

  Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. HistoryDetective 09-25-06 1
   RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. Estee 09-25-06 2
 RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. CouchTater 09-25-06 3
   RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. Breezy 09-25-06 4
       RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. HistoryDetective 09-25-06 5
 RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. Seana 09-25-06 6
 RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. Peetah 09-25-06 7
 RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. dabo 09-25-06 8
 RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. LIVEURBESTLIFE 09-25-06 9
   RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. Estee 09-25-06 10
       RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. LIVEURBESTLIFE 09-25-06 11
           RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. Estee 09-25-06 12
               RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. LIVEURBESTLIFE 09-25-06 13
                   In the future... IceCat 09-25-06 14
   RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. dabo 09-25-06 15
       RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. Prof_ Wagstaff 09-25-06 17
           RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. dabo 09-25-06 18
               RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. Prof_ Wagstaff 09-25-06 19
                   RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. frisky 09-25-06 21
                   Stop it. NOW. Bebo 09-25-06 22
 RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. MsShel330 09-25-06 16
   RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. foonermints 09-25-06 23
 RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. frisky 09-25-06 20
 RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. pumpkinqueen 09-26-06 24
 RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. Savahnna 09-26-06 25
 RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. CantStandToLook 09-26-06 26
   RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. willinCal 09-26-06 28
 RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech. anotherkim 09-26-06 27

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Messages in this topic

HistoryDetective 9516 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 09:48 AM (EST)
Click to EMail HistoryDetective Click to send private message to HistoryDetective Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
1. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
You're too kind. I would have named them Team Bitch (About Everything).
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 09:49 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
2. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
LAST EDITED ON 09-25-06 AT 09:50 AM (EST)

I just get tired of putting the secret code in every time. Besides, bitch(ers) can be independent. These two are parasites.


  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

CouchTater 1046 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"

09-25-06, 10:11 AM (EST)
Click to EMail CouchTater Click to send private message to CouchTater Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
3. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
EXACTLY!!!!! I thought these two might be rather funny and easy going at first and I let go of the complaining about Sarah and the plane because other's complained about that too, but after this week, they go to the bottom of the sh*t crap heap.

They are just mean and nasty with no redeeming qualities at all at this point. Karlyn is just vile.



A Tribephyl creation

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Breezy 18379 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 10:31 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Breezy Click to send private message to Breezy Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
4. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
Couldn't agree more. The sooner they're off my TV the better.


IceCat is da man! GO PACK GO!!!!

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

HistoryDetective 9516 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 10:36 AM (EST)
Click to EMail HistoryDetective Click to send private message to HistoryDetective Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
5. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
Good thing this isn't Survivor: Eugenics Island or else we would just hate them because they're black.

tongue firmly in cheek

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Seana 5044 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 10:45 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Seana Click to send private message to Seana Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
6. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
I really wanted to like these two.

I liked them in their pre-game video; they were regular, normal people. I even liked them well enough after the first leg, whining about Sarah notwithstanding.

However. I can admit when I've made a mistake. For all the reasons you mentioned, I just can't root for them anymore. Eh. They shouldn't last too much longer.


  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Peetah 334 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"

09-25-06, 02:08 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Peetah Click to send private message to Peetah Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
7. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
To be fair,

I think most of the problem is Karlyn. Lyn seems pretty nice to me, but she doesn't speak up when Karlyn is being vile. Karlyn is the more dominant and vocal personality, so that's why they come across so badly.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 02:53 PM (EST)
Click to EMail dabo Click to send private message to dabo Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
8. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
Say now, honeychile, you gots to work the system! Don't go blamin' the single moms for the system they gots to work! Word!


  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LIVEURBESTLIFE 302 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"

09-25-06, 05:32 PM (EST)
Click to EMail LIVEURBESTLIFE Click to send private message to LIVEURBESTLIFE Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
9. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
LAST EDITED ON 09-25-06 AT 05:45 PM (EST)

Estee and Dabo seem racist to me. Estee's comments about their children ripping of innocent people and recieving handouts tax free seems to be implying that because they are black they and their children are criminals and that they don't mind recieving welfare and do not want to work.

Dabo trying to speak in what I guess he believes is a black dialect is also racist and offensive.

I agree that they are mean and nasty. I also couldn't believe that they recieved help but didn't give any back. That's bad gamesmanship regardless of who is doing it.

But none of that equates to not working hard in your real life, taking "tax-free" handouts or raising your children to be criminal.

If you don't like the way they play the game fine. But your racist world views are totally irrelevant. I really used to enjoy your posts Estee but this is over and way above the line and it's clear to me that you are a racist in the truest sense of the word.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 05:45 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
10. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
LiveUR, one quick question:

What color is my skin?

Go ahead. Take your time about answering. I'll wait.

I was talking about con artists: everything exists for me to use, I'll take what I want from other people without worrying about their consequences, and if they were big enough suckers to fall for it, then they deserved it. I can see the seeds of that in Lyn & Karlyn's actions, and could see them passing on that lesson to their daughters.

If you choose to believe I was making a racist statement, than that was your choice to make and I'll never be able to convince you otherwise. I won't even waste the effort. As I've said before in other forums, those looking for offense will always find it -- whether it's there or not.

Should you look at my post using the viewpoint I just stated and realize where I was coming from, fine. Good. Crisis averted. But I'm far too much of a realist to believe it can happen that way.

If not, we have nothing left to say to each other.

So it goes.


  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LIVEURBESTLIFE 302 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"

09-25-06, 06:01 PM (EST)
Click to EMail LIVEURBESTLIFE Click to send private message to LIVEURBESTLIFE Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
11. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
The color of you skin is irrelevant. I never come here looking to be offended. I enjoy reading the comments of others who enjoy reality tv as much as myself.

But you must be living under a rock if you don't see how your comments wouldn't be percieved in a highly offensive way. If con artist is what you meant then con artist is what you should have said instead referencing tax free handouts and raising your kids to be criminals.

I don't see where taking help but not giving any is considered conning. The kind of behavior Lyn and Karlyn display is selfishness. Con artist tend to manipulate others for their own gain. They haven't manipulated they just haven't given any help to their competition.

Also, they weren't the only team that didn't stop to help Tyler and James. They also weren't the only team that complained about the plane situation. Once the cheerleaders got their car started they didn't stop to help Lyn and Karlyn get their car started. I don't see you accusing anyone else of taking tax free help and raising criminals.

But your right you can't change me and I can't change you. It is what it is.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 06:09 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
12. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
When I think 'tax-free' in connection with reality contestants, I think Richard. I never said welfare. (For that matter, is welfare income taxable? I honestly don't know. I've never thought about it before now. Possibly I'll never think about it again.) I said single moms because that's the card L&K have been playing in some of their confessionals: we're single moms setting an example for our kids. And they came to mind before the others who didn't stop because they've received help -- the water, the native guide -- without giving any, while some of the other teams have been on their own.

I don't live under a rock. I have always understood that anything I say can and will be found offensive in the wrong light. Somehow, it hasn't kept me from talking.

You're offended. I believe it's for insufficient -- or no -- reason. We're at an impasse. You've decided I'm a racist. I'll have to live with that, because there is exactly nothing I can do about it.

But this thread wasn't meant for discussing that. As such, I'll wait a while to see if we get back on an L&K bashing track -- and if not, I'll ask for it to be locked.

And for what it's worth, I do divide the people of the world into two cateorgies. Those who listen, and those who don't...


  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LIVEURBESTLIFE 302 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"

09-25-06, 06:17 PM (EST)
Click to EMail LIVEURBESTLIFE Click to send private message to LIVEURBESTLIFE Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
13. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
LAST EDITED ON 09-25-06 AT 06:19 PM (EST)

I listened and I heard you loud and clear. To me it sounded like you were making comments based on racial stereotypes. You have intelligently explained that that was not your intent. I can respect that.

End of discussion.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

IceCat 17313 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 07:53 PM (EST)
Click to EMail IceCat Click to send private message to IceCat Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
14. "In the future..."

... please make sure that you press the alert button on things that you find offensive. Please do not attempt to address the issue directly with the poster.

Thank you.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 08:31 PM (EST)
Click to EMail dabo Click to send private message to dabo Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
15. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
Arrrrrrr, boot et gets tryin' alwus parlayin' piratty!

ARRRRRRR!!!!

Sorry you were offended, there was no racist intent in what I posted.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Prof_ Wagstaff 4196 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest"

09-25-06, 09:36 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Prof_%20Wagstaff Click to send private message to Prof_%20Wagstaff Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
17. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
Nice apology.
Pope Benidict would be proud!


Tribephylanthropy!
Intent or not, any newbie posting that "dialog" would have been jumped on and rightfully so. Being here for a long time doesn't justify it. As they say IMO.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 10:17 PM (EST)
Click to EMail dabo Click to send private message to dabo Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
18. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
Well, okay, if you say so. I don't recall trying to "justify" anything, actually. It wasn't racist.

Still, it was black dialect, however poorly done, and offense was taken where none was intended; so yes, you're correct, it was nice of me to apologize. I'm really a swell guy that way.

SMILES ARE FREE

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Prof_ Wagstaff 4196 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest"

09-25-06, 11:02 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Prof_%20Wagstaff Click to send private message to Prof_%20Wagstaff Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
Well okay, I guess you're a bit defensive. Rightly so.
So let's take a look at what I said and didn't say.

I never said that you were trying to "justify" anything.
I said that being here a long time (13,000+ posts) did not "justify" being offensive.

I am more than willing to admit that what I view as racially offensive and what other people on these boards view as offensive are not the same. That is why I usually do not get involved in these discussions.
However, I did not call you a racist, nor did I call your post racist.

I did point out that making the offence someone elses problem, is really not an apology.


Tribephylanthropy!
Space For Rent.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

frisky 11684 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 11:11 PM (EST)
Click to EMail frisky Click to send private message to frisky Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
21. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
>I did not call you a racist, nor did I call your post racist.

But then what is the "it" in this sentence:

>Being here for a long time doesn't justify it.

I interpreted "it" being Dabs' behaviour, actions, etc., and because of the direction of the thresd, I could see Dabs thinking that you're saying "it" is racism. It's more logical than, say, calling someone racist because they insulted some characteristics of a person who just happens to be black, like what happened here with Estee.


Rolly made this.
Of course, it all depends on what your definition of the word "it" is.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Bebo 20880 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 11:18 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Bebo Click to send private message to Bebo Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
22. "Stop it. NOW."
This thread - and this forum - are for discussing The Amazing Race. Ice Cat already addressed the original issue, and there was no reason to stir things up again.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

MsShel330 694 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"

09-25-06, 08:33 PM (EST)
Click to EMail MsShel330 Click to send private message to MsShel330 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
16. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
I really wanted to like these two but they lost me on the opening show. And I'm black so don't accuse me of having a racial bias. They are just plain obnoxious.
I missed the 2nd episode so I don't know about the leeching; Team ##### sounds right to me.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

foonermints 12302 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 11:38 PM (EST)
Click to EMail foonermints Click to send private message to foonermints Click to view user profile Click to send message via ICQ Click to check IP address of the poster
23. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
Team Pay Pal?


All I read are #####.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

frisky 11684 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-25-06, 11:02 PM (EST)
Click to EMail frisky Click to send private message to frisky Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
20. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
As a mixed-breed tabby, I agree with your sentiments. They are vile. I was fed up with them by the middle of episode 1, when they were working on the bricks and complaining about everyone else. They're the type of people who are just looking for a reason to hate people. I see enough of that on a daily basis; I don't need it on my TV.


Rolly made this.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

pumpkinqueen 220 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"

09-26-06, 00:48 AM (EST)
Click to EMail pumpkinqueen Click to send private message to pumpkinqueen Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
24. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
(I think Karma needs to start flying business class. Obviously it's scrambling to catch up.)

wow, where to start? i guess that i was hoping that they would be a little cooler. a team i could largely identify with--except they don't seem to believe in karma--but i will give them a chance. maybe they will learn something--or maybe i will, i mean survival isn't all about karma right?


an arkiegrl original 2005

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Savahnna 844 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"

09-26-06, 12:08 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Savahnna Click to send private message to Savahnna Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
25. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
LAST EDITED ON 09-26-06 AT 12:19 PM (EST)

I sure hope this doesn't come off racist...because it's not in any way what so ever.......but...The degree to which this team was irritating and annoying (for all the reasons Estee mentioned and more).....was enough for me to switch over to the encore of ANTM....

I only saw thier annoying behavior up to the first commercial..as I recall it was a short clip...but enough to turn me off...They could be green, purple, or whatever and I'd have the same reaction.

Thx for starting this thread Estee....Good to know I'm not alone in my dislike of them. I hope they're booted soon so I can aget back to the show.


ETA..."Racist" would have been not to discuss them as you truly saw them becasue they were Black.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

CantStandToLook 6254 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-26-06, 12:37 PM (EST)
Click to EMail CantStandToLook Click to send private message to CantStandToLook Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
I'll just agree that these two are very annoying and definitely setting the wrong example for their daughters to be proud of. I particularly thought it was funny when their car broke down and they seemed upset that the others got help first. What goes around comes around.


Friendship is like peeing your pants, everyone can see it, but only you can feel the true warmth

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

willinCal 193 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"

09-26-06, 08:42 PM (EST)
Click to EMail willinCal Click to send private message to willinCal Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
28. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
Love your siggie, especially that little quote below it.

Like a train wreck, I just had to see all this so-called hoopla. I just don't like Lyn/Karlyn (almost said Alex for a minute). It all started with their comment about Peter/Sarah. Like a previous poster said...what goes around comes around.



Sig by arkiegrl

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

anotherkim 14419 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

09-26-06, 01:49 PM (EST)
Click to EMail anotherkim Click to send private message to anotherkim Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
27. "RE: Lyn and Karlyn: Team Leech."
These are two of the most vile competitors that I've ever encountered--the hateful, jealous, shrewish sniping is enough to make me want them get lost on a slow boat to nowhere--preferably taking that dating couple with them..the one that fights all the time--and mysteriously never show up on TAR again.

Miscellaneous Ramblings
--I'm not really crazy about Team Orthopedia, either, but they are a walk in the sun compared to the other four.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top


Lock | Archive | Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
about this site   •   advertise on this site  •   contact us  •   privacy policy   •