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"S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List Episode 7"
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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04-02-10, 06:38 PM (EST)
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"S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List Episode 7"
LAST EDITED ON 04-03-10 AT 01:30 AM (EST)

S20 definitely took a turn for the worse though recent editing made it no surprise. I have no interest in watching S19 redux. Fortunately, I see this quickly becoming the Heroes' game with perhaps a villian tagalong.

1. Russell- My list has always been a ranking based on performance or entertainment, not based on who I like the most. As such, though I hate the fact he got the better of Rob, he deserves the top spot this week. His bold move to get rid of Tyson turned a 6-3 disadvantage into a 5-3 advantage by taking out the screw that held Rob's alliance together. I don't know that we've ever seen the like. I still think he's an early postmerge victim.

2. Amanda- The main reason I'll continue to watch. She proved in Micronesia that she is good at puzzles, which she finally got to show here. The Heroes troubles therein may have had more to do with poor teamwork. She runs the Heroes and the Heroes are looking to me like the final alliance in this game.

3. Candice- She is a strong female competitor, which is showing now. She has managed to make it through this far, and I think the merge will only improve her position. She has a good shot at this though she has never been in control.

4. Colby- This was Colby's episode, if it could be said to be any Heroes' episode. For some reason, it took dire straits to light a fire under this guy's butt. He looked like a different man. Did someone drop a hint to the Heroes that these two challenges were coming? Because they would have been sunk if James were there instead of Colby.

5. JT- Teamed with Amanda to solve the puzzle and end the Heroes' woes in that department. He and Amanda have control of the Heroes, though I don't think his position is as strong as hers.

6. Parvati- Is in a great position, though I don't think the merge will cure her being a target. She votes as Russell tells her to vote. Maybe he can teach her to roll over and sit too. Not much of a past champ in my book.

7. Rupert- His pinkie toe is the only weakness the Heroes have. He is still getting enough face time to last a long time in this game.

8. Courtney- Her edit turned around rather suddenly. She either lasts a long time now, or she is the next to go. How sweet would it be if there is one more boot before merge, Sandra goes, then they merge and Courtney flips to the Heroes? That would be too great. I don't quite see that in the edit though.

9. Danielle-Is in a great position until merge at least. She is not a player, and Rob totally dismissed her in his interview.

10. Coach- If he forces the tie, Jerri might have reconsidered. Instead, he broke an alliance for a woman that was completely ready to vote against him.

11. Jerri- She will have to explain it to me how going with Russell was the better play. I don't know that either was a great choice for her, but I think she could beat Sandra and Courtney in a vote. I think she maybe could beat Danielle. That's 2-1 for bad choice. Not knowing Russell's game was a huge advantage for him.

12. Sandra- I will likely, this next episode, finally get to see what I waited all of Pearl Islands to see- Sandra getting booted. It is 13 seasons late.


the dearly dismissed

Shugar- 1st winner in the crying game
Randall- not a villian, just an a$$
Steph- 3rd time is crap
Cirie- started her game too early
Tom- this was no Kucha
James- Heroes just wanted to win
Tyson- don't let paranoia win, man
the Rob- damn shame... Says Russell would have been first vote out if they saw him in Samoa, and Russell never gets his chance if Rob doesn't help the villians win so many ICs.

>

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List E... garcor 04-03-10 1
 RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List E... michel 04-04-10 2
   RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List E... garcor 04-04-10 3
       RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List E... michel 04-04-10 4
           RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List E... iltarion 04-04-10 5
               RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List E... michel 04-05-10 6
 RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List E... garcor 04-09-10 8

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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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04-03-10, 07:53 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List Episode 7"
LAST EDITED ON 04-03-10 AT 10:22 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 04-03-10 AT 09:28 PM (EST)


1) JT: JT and Parvati are the best positioned of the remaining past winners, and likely to survive a while longer as the Villains may be in disarray without Rob and Rupert likely more expendable if Heroes go back to losing challenges. Suspect Amanda will remember his role in voting out Cirie.

2) Amanda: Could be best positioned period if Heroes go on IC winning streak. Unlikely to leave soon even if they don't.

3) Russell: Giving the idol to Parvati pays off as this risk helps Gerri decide to trust Russell over Rob. And works over Coach enough to get him to throw away his vote. But Villains look way weaker in challenges with Russell and Coach their only remaining men. See if Russell can hold his tribe together as well as he held together his alliance in Samoa, especially if they lose their numbers advantage.

4) Colby: Should be safe if performs in challenges and should in all but pure strength challenges with Russell and Coach as his male competition. Two straight strong challenges argues keeping him around a while.

5) Candice: Also a strong challenge performer. Bit of a dark horse.

6) Parvati: Hasn't been seen to do much so far but can easily see her as the main beneficiary of Russell's taking charge. He probably wants to keep her around figuring his final TC chances are better against a distrusted past winner. Also is valuable for challenge ability.

7) Rupert: Showed some attitude for a change in head butting with Russell during reward challenge. Still a liability in any challenge requiring mobility and may pay for it.

8) Danielle: Likely to sail through for a while as she performs pretty well in challenges and threatens nobody.

9) Sandra: Likely next target, though might be smart enough to deflect attention from her if there are other tensions in Villains camp.

10) Courtney: Weakest challenge performer on tribe and part of minority alliance. Easy vote off if Villains continue losing.

11) Gerri: Appears lost. Doesn't trust Rob, but will trust Russell all because of a move that benefited Russell as well as Parvati. Russell promises Gerri final three, but can only deliver if he betrays Parvati and Danielle. And Gerri believes him?

12) Coach: Needs new nickname. Appeared to let Russell and Gerri intimidate him into promising Russell his vote after having already promised it to Rob. How can you spend an entire season talking about loyalty and then abandon your ally by throwing away your vote. At worse you had a tie. I know Coach described himself and Gerri as floaters during the episode but he voted with Rob from day one.

Gone - Rob: Deserved better as his strategy was good, undone by Tyson's nerves and willingness to play an individual game when he still needed to trust his alliance. Wonder how Villans will fare without Rob's challenge and survival abilities?

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-10, 06:47 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List Episode 7"
LAST EDITED ON 04-04-10 AT 07:54 PM (EST)

I'm always amazed at the importance given to challenges as I see in the two lists. Winning challenges isn't the key. I'd even say that, when a tribe is up 8-5, losing is a valid option.

1- Russell: He has been making the moves. Coach was heard saying that Russell was a big man for not going after Rob immediately like Rob had done. Parvati called him a Hero. Not bad for the biggest villain ever.

2- Parvati: She had to convince Jerri to commit and she got the confessional to talk about it. Russell thinks he can't beat her for the million. Is he right?

3- Candace: She scored the second point and she’s the one that bridged the gap during the immunity challenge, catching up and passing Courtney but I prefered that Jeff told us: “She learned something from her first time”. Can she split JT and Amanda? It would be to her advantage. We knew she was close to Colby but I didn't know she was that close!

4- Danielle: Her influence on the alliance was shown a bit more in this episode when she helped Russell and Parvati convince Jerri. She plays a role in the story but it isn’t her story

5- Jerri had a very interesting episode and we really felt her turmoil. Did she make the right decision? Being 5th in an alliance solely led by Rob isn’t a very good position. Being 4th with Russell and Parvati, there could be more room to create conflicts and find an opening.

6- JT: He's the leader of the Heroes. He's been running circles around these weak minds but, if Candace gets closer to Amanda as we have seen lately...

...it could be trouble for JT. When he talked about the tribe being a family and using the idol against the Villains it made him look very naïve.


7- Colby had a great episode if we forget that, of those 3 huge tribal councils he survived, he didn’t do a thing to save himself.


8- Amanda: She had a very poor episode, being portrayed as the Heroes party-pooper or, as MissMyth put it, the Eve that couldn't resist the idol temptation. She also didn't even get a chance to tell us how losing her big brother affected her.

9- Coach: He had trouble coping with Sandra’s criticism during their first tribal council, how will he survive being called a "little man" by Rob? Jerri’s confessional sounded like the epilogue to Coach’s story on Survivor: “That guy is so naïve…I don’t see someone who gets it like in the grand scheme of this game.”

10- Sandra: The key to being a good follower is to know when the power shifts. She should have gone with Russell but getting her hair done was more important,

11- Courtney: In China, she had the flair to see that Todd was in charge. She disappointed me by being so firmly against Russell and Parvati. I guess the Steven-Tyson-JT connection was very attractive but, with Tyson gone, she had to jump ship.

12- Rupert: He only tells us that it's good to be a Hero. He has no story of his own.


Booted- Rob: The guy that saved Sarah by voting out Hunter claims he always thought of tribe strength! Laughable. He had to sacrifice Courtney. It would have given him a few days to regroup.


Iltarion wrote:
"Amanda... proved in Micronesia that she is good at puzzles..."
I guess that's why Eliza did all the puzzles for them and that Airai won all the challenges after the swap!

"She runs the Heroes and the Heroes are looking to me like the final alliance in this game."

JT has been running circles around her and I see the Heroes as an afterthought both in recaps and in scene presentation.

"3. Candice...has a good shot at this though she has never been in control."

Being in control is over-rated. Anyway, trying to take charge would have been suicidal. I have admired her strategy up to now. She has navigated through very rough waters.


"4. Colby...they would have been sunk if James were there instead of Colby."

Are you sure about that? James would have been an impressive shot blocker in the 1st challenge and, if Amanda is so great, he could have been on the puzzle!


"6. Parvati...Not much of a past champ in my book."
She's been caled the most dangerous player of the tribe both in Malakal and in the Villains. That is saying a lot in my book.


"7. Rupert- His pinkie toe is the only weakness the Heroes have."

Really? You're not bothered that they don't have enough brains to go around?

"9. Danielle...is not a player, and Rob totally dismissed her in his interview.

Jealousy is an ugly thing. I see a player that, in 2 seasons, has remained very calm under pressure. That is key in this game.

"11. Jerri- She will have to explain it to me how going with Russell was the better play."

Look up, I explained it already.

"Not knowing Russell's game was a huge advantage for him."

That's only looking at 1 side of the coin. We know that, when returning players are concerned, cliques are the most important thing, that survivor alumns stick together. Russell never had a chance to party with these people before and that's where these alliances are formed. He had a huge disadvantage there and, as far as his supposed advantage is concerned, Jeff going straight to him in the season opener, calling him one of the most notorious villains ever should have been enough to alert everyone.


"Russell never gets his chance if Rob doesn't help the villians win so many ICs."
Maybe or maybe Russell gets Rob out earlier. If Rob isn't the MVP, does he get enough people on his side? They could have voted him out after medical treated him if they had lost that challenge. Rob winning challenges was good for Rob up to a certain point. When it gets close to the merge, you ALWAYS need more than challenge ability.

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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-10, 08:34 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List Episode 7"
LAST EDITED ON 04-05-10 AT 10:27 PM (EST)

Losing challenges may be a valid option for the Villains if they are looking for a chance to move out Sandra or Courtney. Not so much for the Heroes. The more allies, or tribesmates, you bring with you to merge, the more options you have. And given some of the interesting personalities on the Villain's side, it might become very unpredictible on their tribe if losing becomes a habit.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-10, 09:15 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List Episode 7"
I agree that the Heroes are better off winning challenges but they are already in a position where making the merge with a majority is practically out of the question. The most important thing for them will be to find cracks and that means playing with their heads. Except for Candace, I haven't been impressed with their game play.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-10, 11:02 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List Episode 7"
LAST EDITED ON 04-04-10 AT 11:34 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 04-04-10 AT 11:27 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 04-04-10 AT 11:22 PM (EST)
(Edited for awesomeness)

Heroes edit- Considering the editing had been setting up this episode for the Villians all season, the fact that the Heroes got the confessionals from Colby and Rupert and the longish scene at reward, which could have been glossed over, I would say it was a pretty good episode for the Heroes.

No goodbye for Amanda- Unnecessary. We already got to see plenty of Amanda's reaction to the possibility of James being gone a couple episodes ago. No reason to show more of what was already proven by events to have been a necessary decision. That was a completely personal moment for Amanda. Have we seen any other player get the same? Not yet. In her IC run to get to the end of Micronesia, Amanda won a challenge involving a puzzle that forced the boot of Natalie. She beat Cirie, Parvati, and Natalie in the challenge. All who still insisted afterwards that they are smarter than her. Lastly, I don't remember Amanda begging JT to forgive her. Yeah, JT has been running circles around her.

Russell the Hero- Hahaha... I find it comical that you treat as important the words Russell and Coach said when they were speaking to each other and lying their a$$es off. You then ignore the confessional immediately after where Coach basically said Russell was full of crap. It is pretty bad when Russell can't even convince Coach. If you believe Russell seriously would have voted for Courtney instead of Rob all along, then Russell would like to have you as an ally. You also ignore the fact that Russell was set up as opposing Rob from before Rob ever opposed him. One scene where Russell tries to appear selfless to Coach, and fails, hardly erases what we already know about Russell- that he doesn't care about the strength of his tribe and that he wanted Rob gone.

The editing agrees with Rob that Danielle is no player. She has had what? 2 confessionals all season. I like seeing her, so believe me, I've been looking for them.

What good would it have done Sandra and Courtney to join forces with Russell after he already pointed them out as the ones to go? So they can be the next two? Either way, they need to hope for merge or that Coach makes a bigger target of himself than them.

The Villians have been edit-light all season, with Rob, Russell and Coach being the only exceptions. The Heroes' edit has been more consistent. Could that be simply because the Heroes have kept losing and going to TC? Now that the Villians no longer have the plotline of Rob vs. Russell could we see more of some other individuals? Maybe. The Villians plotline now seems to be Colby's "It is only a matter of time before that tribe self-destructs." Or that could be a misdirect. We will see.

I agree Candice has a good shot at this. Jeff's "she has learned from her first time" could mean something, OR it could have just been relevant to the challenge. Regardless, I guarantee you right now she does not win unless she wins a challenge or two down the stretch. Fortunately for her, she has the ability to do that.

Parvati's charm has been used as an explanation for why she has been targeted. However, we have seen nothing yet of the danger it poses. In fact, even her own alliancemate, Russell, has not been charmed enough to believe he should take her to the end. She has played ZERO social game this time around, which is normally her strength. Even the single young man on her tribe, Tyson, wanted her gone right away. Riding Russell's coattails and trying to win Natalie-style does not impress me. Of course, she does still have postmerge to work some social magic. We will see. Personally, I don't see the "friends" on the jury she needs to get a win this time around. I think Candice or Amanda are better bets right now. But long way to go.

Oh, in all my babble, I forgot to give Kudos to Colby for the molestation of Candice. Very good work. He might like women a little afterall.


>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-10, 06:21 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List Episode 7"
Compare the villains' epi.#5 to the Heroes epi.#7 (episodes where the tribes won both IC and RC) and you'll see that this episode was clearly lacking for the Heroes. We barely saw them enjoying the reward, didn't see them going to the waterfall and they weren't shown looking for their idol.

At F4 in Micronesia, Amanda only beat Natalie because Cirie and Parvati weren't really trying, ready to vote out the one without immunity.

"I find it comical that you treat as important the words Russell and Coach...If you believe Russell seriously would have voted for Courtney instead of Rob all along, then Russell would like to have you as an ally"

Everything said is important to the story. Calling Russell a "bigger man" is notable as is the fact that Russell considered voting Courtney before going after Rob. It put him, editing-wise, in a position of self-defense.
And maybe I should remind you of Rob's own words: “I’ve played Survivor 3 times now and, for the first time in all of those times, I was shocked last night."
In this episode, the editors wanted to tell us one thing: Russell is a very, very good player.

"The editing agrees with Rob that Danielle is no player."

Sorry but the editing only tells us Danielle doesn't give interesting confessionals. She isn't an emotional player which is bad for TV but it can be great in a paranoia inducing environment.

I agree it wouldn't have done any good for Sandra AND Courtney to join Russell but one of them should have at the other's expense. Remember: "Anybody but me"? Up to now, Sandra has forgotten it.

"Parvati...has played ZERO social game this time around"

I beg to differ: Some say that she has Russell wrapped around her little finger despite what he says. Danielle is a close ally and friend. She cleared the last hurdle for Jerri to join them. And, how friendly does she have to be if she plans on facing the jury alongside Russell and Danielle?!! If she's too likable, they'll boot her for Jerri. No one thought she had the social game compared to Amanda in S16 yet she won.

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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-10, 08:40 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: S20 H vs. V- Love/Loathe List Episode 7"
It looks like we might end up watching Micronesia redux.
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