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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
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"Fix?"
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tribephyl 9688 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-27-10, 03:06 AM (EST)
 
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24. "RE: Fix?" |
It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Well therein, PRE, lies the rub. You are too smart for this game.
It is very very very ...veryvery unoften that a survivor ever does what we viewers deem would be the BEST thing to do.
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BrassFan 322 desperate attention whore postings
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03-25-10, 10:30 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Fix?" |
I can understand why you might think that way, and I can't seem to figure out Tyson either....That being said, I still think the risks of fixing the show are far too great for SEG/CBS. If they *did* try to fix the game to keep Russell around, I think there are better ways than trying to convince someone to make one of, if not the, biggest boneheaded moves....
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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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03-25-10, 12:10 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Fix?" |
LAST EDITED ON 03-25-10 AT 12:12 PM (EST)I thought this was worth reposting here - someone posted this on Spoilers, but this is relevant to this thread. From Stephen's Survivor Strategy blog: ... Watching the episode, it looks like he has a very clear path to safety — vote for Russell, split the votes along with the rest of his alliance, and then when Parvati or Russell plays the idol, vote for the other one in the re-vote. But as I mentioned last week, when you’re actually playing Survivor, nothing seems certain; paranoia sets in. That’s especially true if you’re the other faction’s target; you know your name is being written down at Tribal Council. For Tyson to vote according to plan, he would have to rely on five other people to do exactly what they say they’re doing. That’s five other people who have their own plots and ambitions. What if Jerri is harboring a secret scheme to take him out at the knees? Tyson might seem like an incidental player in the Rob/Russell pissing match, but when you’re out there in the wild, you assume everybody’s scheming against you. And Tyson was a victim of a vote-splitting plan gone awry in Tocantins (he thought we were splitting the votes between Erinn and Sierra; instead, we voted him out). You can see why he’d be gun-shy. Furthermore, there’s no reason to think Russell would give Parvati the idol. After all, it’s him or her in a revote. Why would Russell risk his own skin to save hers? What makes Russell so deadly is that he takes strategy a step beyond basic psychology. He doesn’t just play to people’s self-interest; he plays to their fears and their insecurity. I loved the scene where Rob and Russell talk at night, like Pacino and DeNiro having coffee in Heat. Rob’s threat that “If you really don’t have that idol, you need to go get it,” had all the menace of a kid in a monster mask on Halloween. As Russell coolly parses it, “They’re trying to flush the idol out of me. Rob told me it’s going to be me, and I ain’t stupid. They’re going to vote Parvati.” Duh. That sort of psychological insight allows him to break apart Rob’s perfectly constructed but fragile vote-splitting plan. Russell cozies up to Tyson and tells him that he’s going to vote for Parvati to save himself. “It’s breaking my heart,” he moans, “but…I’ve got to play this game for myself.” Russell plays the part that Tyson expects him to play — scared and scrambling for his life. He’s frantic! He’s selfish! Of course he’ll play the idol! So why shouldn’t Tyson flip his vote and go for the sure kill on Parvati, rather than risk the intricacies of a split vote and a revote? “I just want it over with and get some hot dog in my mouth,” Tyson says. This goes with what I said in my first post above, it sounds like he wanted to "make sure" there was no chance taken with a revote, if people are actually voting for Parv, then let's make sure she goes! Paranoia can be rather powerful.
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BrassFan 322 desperate attention whore postings
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03-25-10, 01:38 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Fix?" |
>He believed Russell... but Russell is
>in cahoots with Parvati, he
>WANTED Tyson to believe that
>Parvati was the target. But, that's the point. If Tyson *does* believe Russell when he says he's voting for Pavarti, why swtich his vote? If Russell votes for Parvarti, and 3 others Tyson's tribe vote Parv, she' has 4 votes. Parv and Danielle vote Tyson, so he has 2 votes. With Tyson's vote and two others remaining, they are totally irelevant. Tyson could have voted for Jeff, and it wouldn't have changed the fact that Parv was going home. On EW.com Tyson explains his rationale, and it still doesn't quite add up. He said that he wanted Parv gone because he was worried about a tribe switch/merge, and her having friends on the other tribe...not to mention buying a little goodwill with Russell.
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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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03-25-10, 08:15 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Fix?" |
If you're Tyson, why tick off Russell by voting for him if you think Parvati's the one that's leaving?
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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03-25-10, 08:39 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Fix?" |
LAST EDITED ON 03-25-10 AT 08:39 PM (EST)The post from spoilers hits it on the head. If you analyze the move by Tyson, it makes no rational sense. However, Tyson knew his name was being written down, and that if there was an idol ricochet, he was the one going down. That can certainly cause someone to "scramble," which basically means doing whatever it takes to try to guarantee yourself in the game whether rational or not. As we already saw with Cirie's boot, a split vote is a tricky thing and a lot to trust for someone who knows they are getting 3 votes.
I think the key is something completely rational. Tyson never believed Russell would give Parvati the idol. The others in Tyson's alliance wanted to flush the idol and wanted Russell gone if possible. Tyson wanted Parvati gone. Forget the tie and the idol. Just get 4 votes for Parvati. She's gone. Problem solved. Haha... and who said Russell is now in control of the game? Says who? Russell now is in an alliance of 3 against an alliance of 5 with no idol to protect him or anyone else in his alliance. He has no control. He got to boot Tyson. Congrats. But the odds are still heavy against him.
>
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BrassFan 322 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
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03-27-10, 12:06 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Fix?" |
>"There's no way to slice exlpain
>or understand why he voted
>Parvati."
>
>Of course there is:
>
>1) He wanted Parvati out more
>than Russell But, if he believes Russell, he doesn't have to switch his vote to get rid of Parvati. >2) He wanted to have Russell
>as an ace in the
>hole later on, and it
>would help his case if
>he didn't vote for the
>guy. This, I'd agree with. >3) He thought Russell confessing that
>he's switching to Parvati meant
>Russell was definitely playing the
>idol, which would make his
>part in the Rob-split unecessary It also makes his vote for Parvarti unecessary. He votes Russell, Russell votes Parvarti, Russell plays the idol, and Parvati goes home. >5) He doesn't like the fact
>that his name is on
>the block Yeah, you're right on this one. And the fact that he already fell victim to a vote split once was probably in the back of his mind. >6) He switches to Parvati to
>make it a done deal
>on the first vote Except, as Rob said, if Parvarti plays the idol (which was the reason for the vote split strategy), it puts all the control in the hands of Parvarti/Russell/Danielle. Which, unfortunately for Tyson, is exactly what happened.
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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
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03-26-10, 08:11 AM (EST)
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18. "RE: Fix?" |
Fix?FIX? Really? Were people slaiming "fix" when Colby took Tina instead of Keith to F2 in Australia? OK, maybe. But most people said this - Colby was dumb. What about when Paschal got purple-rocked out of the game? Fix? Nope. Carelessness and a production error. Jenna's floor-wiping of Matt? No fix. Bad editing. How about Ian stepping down at F3? Fix? Hardly. Temporary insanity. Let's take the case of the Nakum alliance coughing up an immunity advantage to last-Yaxha-standing Danni. Fix? More like gross stupidity and arrogance. Dreamz keeping immunity? Fix? More like Dreamz saving his own skin only to have it torn off at FTC. Moving on...James saving two immunity idols? Again, no dice. He just made a calculated, but careless, risk. And got burned. Was it a fix when Erik gave up immunity to Natalie? Ha. If it was, I hope he got paid really well. Hanlon's Raxor states: "Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity." Apply to above. Also apply to anyone who fell for a fake hidden immunity idol, anyone who flipped the bird, anyone who got the hair-brained idea to throw a challenge...and remember something: People are, by and large, susceptible to acting like colossal morons. Tyson Apostol was voted out because he acted like a colossal moron. Russell Hantz was spared because he's a clever bastard.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-26-10, 04:43 PM (EST)
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21. "Fix? Unlikely but Not Impossible" |
LAST EDITED ON 03-26-10 AT 04:45 PM (EST)Great post Colonel, BUT: We know the fix was in when Stacey got voted out instead of Rudy. We also had some very strange happenings that "helped" events turn out for the best. A few examples: - The tribal switch in Guatemala that gave Stephenie the numbers and a very docile tribe full of her fans. - Jonathan's flip after talks of a possible all-Caucasian F4 surfaced in CI. - Tribes being whisked to Tribal Council under strict orders not to talk as soon as Chris had finished talking to Eliza during Vanuatu's F7. (When asked why she didn't talk to Leann and Ami afterwards, Eliza said she was afraid they'd confront Scout and Twila and force them to vote her out which is understandable but she added: "There were other things that happened before that vote that I'm not allowed to discuss.") - The same when Galu considered voting out Erik. Both John and Brett said they only had 10 minutes to react after hearing the new plan.
Here? It's not that they wouldn't try anything it's just that I don't see why they would fix it to save Parvati over Tyson. Jeff loves his guys too much for that. On the other hand, it makes Russell look so smart that I can't totally dismiss it. And that's all Jeff's fault for exhibiting his hard-on for Hantz on every tribune since Samoa first aired.
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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
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03-28-10, 12:54 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Fix? Unlikely but Not Impossible" |
I don't believe Stacey. Simply put, her "The vote was RIGGED!" cries could be stifled by this simple bit of information - Richard Hatch was running the game. He buddied up to Rudy. He masterminded the Tagi alliance, which was four people. Four is more than half of seven, which was the number of people remaining in Tagi at the time. The fifth vote for Stacey was gravy. Therefore, this can be explained by what I will tag the Hatch Principle: "Never attribute to game-rigging what can adequately be explained by the doings of a clever bastard."Also, EPMB sued Stillman for $5 million after that. Not sure why - never read the contract. Taking Stillman down with EPMB? Perhaps. If so, Stillman failed. But reality TV is rife with stupid people trying to extend their 15 minutes after failing - remember the person booted off American Idol and then claiming he slept with Paula? Remember Chima's gross stupidity (boy did the show get her wrong, labeling her a "Brain" at the start)? I'm not saying Survivor's not rigged - just that there's a logical explanation for just about everything. If EPMB's rigging Survivor, he's doing a much better job than we think, and the results are more skewed toward tribes, not individuals (recall the Amazon IC that involved catching a bunch of fish - we all know they were tring to ensure that the tribes were evened up for the switch. If the guys had been up 7-6, they'd have been walking balance beams from start to finish.) I think we could all agree beforehand that Tyson is, more or less, insane. Flipping his vote to Parvati? No dumber than Erik passing over immunity.
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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
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03-30-10, 07:37 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: Fix? Unlikely but Not Impossible" |
Dirk backed her up - Sean didn't. With only Sean's vote, it's still 4-3 and makes no difference. Also, Dirk was kind of the next person out of the game from the Tagi tribe...sore loser, perhaps?Alliance or no, the point is, Burnett didn't affect the outcome, if both Dirk and Sean are telling what they believe to be the truth - which, I guess, means that, even when Burnett tries to tip off the outcome, he's not very good at it.
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Tublecane 141 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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03-30-10, 01:18 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Fix? Unlikely but Not Impossible" |
"We know the fix was in when Stacey got voted out instead of Rudy."Was that a "fix," though? Even if we assume producers suggested that Rudy stay in the game, the players didn't have to oblige. And it wouldn't have worked, anyway, if anyone liked Stacy. I'd call it interference, which is fine, because this is a game show, not the Supreme Court. "The tribal switch in Guatemala that gave Stephenie the numbers and a very docile tribe full of her fans." "Jonathan's flip after talks of a possible all-Caucasian F4 surfaced in CI." Jonathan is an actor, but I found his flip-flip thought process too convinving to disbelieve. Did anyone really care whether there was a minority race in the F4? I think it was more a case of rooting for the underdog and nobody liking Candice, Parvati, and Adam. They weren't really "minorities," anyway, since they all started equally.
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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
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04-05-10, 06:30 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: Fix? Unlikely but Not Impossible" |
Jonathan is an actor, but I found his flip-flip thought process too convinving to disbelieve. Did anyone really care whether there was a minority race in the F4? I think it was more a case of rooting for the underdog and nobody liking Candice, Parvati, and Adam. They weren't really "minorities," anyway, since they all started equally.Jonathan's "all-Caucasian" F4 was more of an all-old_Raro F4. Yes, the original tribes were drawn on race - but did race come into play in past seasons when tribes were not drawn based on race? Race was just a convenience line created by tribal divisions. And actually, Jonathan's story with the flip was that he thought either Candice or Adam had the HII, which made sense, since they spent the most time on Exile. It had little to nothing to do with race or tribal lines.
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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
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04-05-10, 06:40 PM (EST)
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52. "RE: Fix?" |
I don't think it was bad editing. Matt was clearly portrayed as a weirdo, and princess beats weirdo.His edit changed, though...he went from clod to weirdo to thriving underdog who just happened to be unusual. Jenna was a spoiled princess who treated the unpopular kids like dirt. I can see Alex and Heidi voting for Jenna, and Jenna had a better rapport with Deena. That leaves Dave, Christy, Butch, and Rob, and I think Rob's vote was probably closer than we think. I still, to this day, have no idea why Christy voted for Jenna. It boggles the mind. The only conceivable thing was that she took offense to Matt's comment about her having a "funky accent," which I guess could have been played better, but pales in comparison to Jenna and Heidi implying that their beauty is a handicap. So yes, I could see Jenna winning based on the vote breakdown. But not by that margin.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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04-05-10, 07:53 PM (EST)
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53. "RE: Fix?" |
Christy explained her vote saying that she didn't want to appear as holding a grudge against Jenna. It would have been a poor example to the young people she worked with.
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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
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04-06-10, 08:24 PM (EST)
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54. "RE: Fix?" |
I also heard somewhere it boiled down to tribal loyalty, but every reason she gave still sounds kind of lame...that one seems to make the most sense, but if it's true, then her vote was merely a referendum on Jenna, and Matt didn't come into play. Which sort of makes sense, since they didn't share a tribe until the merge.
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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-26-10, 05:42 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Fix?" |
I don't know about an out-and-out fix -- everything you say is correct but I think Tyson may have just made a dumb move anyway -- but I definitely suspect interference. What bugged me about the whole thing was: How did Russell know that Tyson wasn't already going to vote for Parvati? Russell must have assumed the group of six were going to split their votes 3-3, so in order to make the vote come out 4-2 he had to try to flip someone who was in the three that were voting for Russell. If Tyson was in the group voting for Parvati, Russell's little act would be pointless. So Russell must have found out who was slated to vote for whom. Or at the very least he found out the name of one person (Tyson) that was supposed to vote for Russell. I can't fathom how he would have gotten that information from anyone in the group of six. I do think that production in no way wanted either Russell or Parvati gone this early, so I can easily believe that Russell was tipped off as to who to go after. Just as I think last time he was steered toward the idols (maybe not the first one, but after they saw his m.o.) Laura said in one of her post-show interviews that Russell knew he was going to be on S20 before the S19 merge happened. How did that happen? 
A tribe glows in Brooklyn
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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03-27-10, 01:13 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Fix?" |
But every interview is done in presence of someone from the show and, because of their contracts, the players cannot answer freely. Like I wrote above, there wouldn't be these questions if Jeff hadn't been acting like Russell's pimp for 2 seasons.
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JessicaRN 1070 desperate attention whore postings
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03-28-10, 05:31 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Fix?" |
I just watched this last night and as someone above said, reading your posts helped me understand it a bit better. Putting aside the idea of a "fix", I have to give it to Russell for being strategic, manipulative and knowing how to play on everyone's fears. I sure wouldn't want to do business with him - or anything else for that matter, but he makes watching Survivor pretty interesting.
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BrassFan 322 desperate attention whore postings
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03-30-10, 09:00 AM (EST)
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37. "RE: Fix?" |
>
>Not exactly. Last season, Russell's opposition
>was never given much attention
>and Russell was never shown
>to look bad like he
>has a couple times this
>season. The edit between he
>and Rob has been pretty
>equal. Maybe the edit, in results to how much time they are getting is equal.... But, what I'm getting at is that the edit is making it look like Russell and Parv are on the outside, and the other 6 were a very close knit, very tight alliance. However, the hidden scenes on CBS.com are showing that the majority alliance isn't all that tight. Tyson was afraid of the results of splitting the vote, and that wasn't shown. They made it look like Russell was sooooooo smart that by simply telling Tyson that he was going to vote for Parv, Tyson would jump ship. That's not at all what happened, based on Tyson's interviews. Tyson was afraid of the split vote plan, having fallen to it once before, so he approached Russell. Jerri appears, based on the show that airs, to be solidly in the alliance, yet, her interviews and comments on CBS.com are showing that she really doesn't like Rob.
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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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03-31-10, 06:55 AM (EST)
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45. "RE: Fix?" |
Someone at TC, Courtney?, did mention that Rob is a polarizing figure; people either like him or don't and that he's been in the center of a lot of controversy. Hardly see Rob's alliance as tight; figure Sandra for sure will change her vote whenever it's to her advantage.
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Wacko Jacko 2434 desperate attention whore postings
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04-02-10, 03:37 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: Fix?" |
>I have always thought that players
>who cried "Fix" were just
>sore losers, but after last
>night I'm re-thinking my position.
> Tyson's vote simply made
>no sense at all.
>There's no way to slice
>exlpain or understand why he
>voted Parvati.
>
>If Russell was telling the truth,
>then he didn't need to
>vote for Parvati - she
>would have been gone.
>If she had or played
>the immunity idol, then he
>couldn't have gotten her no
>matter what. If Russel
>had or played the idol
>then Parvati would have been
>gone on the re-vote.
>There was ZERO upside to
>switching his vote. NONE.
> It makes no sense.
> I saw no mullets
>at Tribal last night, so
>there was no one there
>stupid enough to throw an
>extra vote at what was
>either a sure thing or
>that had zero chance of
>happening.
>
>It's no secret that Jeff (and
>probably EPMB) love the chaos
>that Russell brings to the
>game. I have little
>problem believing that Tyson was
>pressured or paid to essentially
>vote himself out of the
>game. it makes more
>sense than any other explanation.
I could not disagree with the original poster.....anymore than I do.
Tysons vote made perfect sense....he did not want to be the "puppet"....can not think of the word given on Big Brother. He freaked out. He thought...no way Russell gives his immunity to Paverti and this elimates the need for a revote. Did Tyson know fo sure there'd be a revote? Maybe maybe not. Also, Russell or Boston Rob? Who provided better ratings? I might argue Boston Rob did. So I see no reason why Survivor would fix things. Myself, I almost don't feel like watching anymore without Boston Rob. I was rooting for Boston Rob....now who do I root for?
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-03-10, 02:24 AM (EST)
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49. "RE: Fix?" |
No, a chapter ended, a new one is beginning. The Heroes have it together, or so they say. The Villains are weakened but still have the numbers. I say that's interesting.
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