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"Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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01-13-10, 09:55 PM (EST)
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"Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
*looks at cast*

Good bloody luck.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The cast:

Tyson Apostol
Randy Bailey
Rupert Boneham
James Clement
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Danielle DiLorenzo
Colby Donaldson
Cirie Fields
Russell Hantz
Amanda Kimmel
Jessica "Sugar" Kiper
Stephenie LaGrossa
Jerri Manthey
Rob "Boston Rob" Mariano
Parvati Shallow
James "J.T." Thomas, Jr.
Benjamin "Coach" Wade
Tom Westman
Candice Woodcock
Courtney Yates

The captain has turned on the No Fleeing sign.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Max Headroom 01-14-10 1
   On a more serious note. Max Headroom 01-15-10 7
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... RocketScientist 01-14-10 2
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... michel 01-14-10 3
   RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Spanky68 01-25-10 14
       RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Tublecane 02-05-10 24
   RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Tublecane 02-05-10 22
       Panama 101 michel 02-05-10 26
           RE: Panama 101 Tublecane 02-05-10 28
               RE: Panama 101 michel 02-05-10 30
                   RE: Panama 101 iltarion 02-06-10 33
                       RE: Panama 101 michel 02-06-10 35
                           RE: Panama 101 iltarion 02-06-10 37
                               RE: Panama 101 michel 02-06-10 38
                                   RE: Panama 101 iltarion 02-07-10 40
                                       Precisions michel 02-10-10 45
                                           RE: Precisions iltarion 02-11-10 46
                                               RE: Precisions michel 02-11-10 48
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Belle Book 01-14-10 4
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... smokedog 01-14-10 5
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... SpotTheDifference 01-15-10 6
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Colonel Zoidberg 01-18-10 8
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Snidget 01-18-10 9
   RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Tublecane 02-05-10 25
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Glow 01-19-10 10
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Carezy 01-20-10 11
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... TanNymph 01-25-10 12
 I can't wait for the season Spanky68 01-25-10 13
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Aruba 01-28-10 15
   RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... michel 01-28-10 16
       RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Aruba 01-29-10 17
           RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... michel 01-29-10 18
               RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Aruba 01-30-10 19
                   RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... michel 01-30-10 20
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... iltarion 02-01-10 21
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Tublecane 02-05-10 23
   RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... michel 02-05-10 27
       RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Tublecane 02-05-10 29
           RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... michel 02-06-10 31
               RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... iltarion 02-06-10 32
                   RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... michel 02-06-10 34
                       RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... iltarion 02-06-10 36
                           RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... michel 02-06-10 39
                               RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... iltarion 02-07-10 41
                                   RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... michel 02-07-10 42
                                       RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... iltarion 02-07-10 43
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... Jims02 02-10-10 44
 RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loa... DoodleBug 02-11-10 47

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Max Headroom 10028 desperate attention whore postings
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01-14-10, 08:09 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
1. Amanda Kimmel
2. Jessica "Sugar" Kiper
3. Parvati Shallow
4. Candice Woodcock
5. Danielle DiLorenzo

You can have the rest of 'em.


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Max Headroom 10028 desperate attention whore postings
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01-15-10, 08:46 AM (EST)
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7. "On a more serious note."
Like a lot
1. Amanda Kimmel
2. James Clement
3. Cirie Fields
4. James "J.T." Thomas, Jr.
5. Colby Donaldson

Like a little
6. Jessica "Sugar" Kiper
7. Tom Westman
8. Rob "Boston Rob" Mariano
9. Russell Hantz
10. Rupert Boneham

Take 'em or leave 'em
11. Candice Woodcock
12. Danielle DiLorenzo

Don't like
13. Sandra Diaz-Twine
14. Stephenie LaGrossa
15. Jerri Manthey
16. Parvati Shallow
17. Courtney Yates

Really don't like
18. Benjamin "Coach" Wade
19. Tyson Apostol
20. Randy Bailey

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RocketScientist 62 desperate attention whore postings
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01-14-10, 10:22 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
Like:
Rupert Boneham
Colby Donaldson
Amanda Kimmel
Stephenie LaGrossa
Parvati Shallow
James "J.T." Thomas, Jr.
Tom Westman

Dislike:
Tyson Apostol
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Russell Hantz
Jessica "Sugar" Kiper
Jerri Manthey
Rob "Boston Rob" Mariano
Benjamin "Coach" Wade


Who?
All the rest...

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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01-14-10, 06:57 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
They are rated from "Most curious to see play again" to "Should have stayed home the first time"!


- Sandra Diaz-Twine: One of the funniest winners ever.

- Tom Westman: He'll need a solid alliance but he should have time to establish it.

- Jerri Manthey: She's perfect for this game if she really plays.

- Rob "Boston Rob" Mariano: It won't be easy this time but he always has tricks up his sleeve.

- Candice Woodcock: She is very smart yet she was edited as the dumb blonde. She's almost as unknown as Hantz and I really hope she uses it to her advantage.

- Courtney Yates: She always cracks me up. If she slips by to the merge I will be shocked.

- Parvati Shallow: She should have a target on her back but she had one throughout Micronesia.

- James "J.T." Thomas, Jr.: Can the Southern charm work twice? I'd like to see JT work for it rather than have it handed to him.

- Russell Hantz: No one knows him so he can do anything he wants.

- Cirie Fields: The best strategist will have a hard time getting out of the Heroes' tribe. It's soon to bring her back but she was robbed the last time.

- Colby Donaldson: Strong and honest, the perfect guy to clear the way for someone smart.

- Danielle DiLorenzo: I thought she was a better player than she was given credit for but she could prove me wrong!

- Benjamin "Coach" Wade: At least his airtime should be more reasonable this time. Nutjob but he isn't boring.

- Rupert Boneham: One of the stupidest players ever. Funny as a Pirate, pathetic as one of Rob's sheeps.

- Stephenie LaGrossa: The female Poopert. Heroic in Ulong, pathetic as Rafe's puppet.

- Randy Bailey: I liked his snark. The guy's a basher and he could fly under the radar.

- James Clement: Too soon to bring him back

- Amanda Kimmel: Same thing for her.

- Tyson Apostol: He can be funny but he's a terrible player.

- Jessica "Sugar" Kiper: Why cast her?


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Spanky68 8092 desperate attention whore postings
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01-25-10, 02:41 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
Jessica "Sugar" Kiper: Why cast her?
because when you put "pinup model" in your ads, you guarantee at least a couple of extra rating points. Now as I said in my post, I never really saw what the fuss was about her looks, but she did grow on me a little thru the season.


Moonbaby tricked out my siggie

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Tublecane 141 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-10, 05:15 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
LAST EDITED ON 02-05-10 AT 05:19 PM (EST)

"I never really saw what the fuss was about her looks"

Her caked on make-up and wacky hair doesn't help. But like a lot of models (or "models"), I think she's a weirdo in real life and hot in posed pictures. She also looks a lot better topless (but who doesn't?).

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Tublecane 141 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-10, 04:07 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
"Danielle DiLorenzo: I thought she was a better player than she was given credit for"

Really? I guess it's possible, given how much backlash her inclusion has ignited. But to my memory, she did little strategically--besides fighting to keep Bruce over the muscley black guy, which may have been correct but nevertheless didn't take a genius (Courtney fought for it too, I think)--and everything you're not supposed to do socially. She couldn't have possibly beat anyone else (Aras, Terry, or Cirie) in the final four, which means she should have gone with Courtney or Shane.

So why did she side with Cirie and Aras at the Courtney vote? Bad move. You can ask the same sort of question of other players. Plenty have fumbled in the finals (for instance Russell, but at least in his case he was right about Mick being a dud, sincerely didn't know Natalie had a chance, and didn't have much of a shot at bringing the one he'd really like to, Shambo, to the end). But the well-remembered ones had built up a pretty good resume up to that point.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-10, 06:11 PM (EST)
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26. "Panama 101"
LAST EDITED ON 02-05-10 AT 06:18 PM (EST)

Danielle's first good move was to put herself between Sally and Courtney. If Bayoneta had gone to TC Danielle would have decided the vote. It could have been Misty because of her lack of time to build relationships or it could have been either Courtney or Sally because those two were closer to Danielle than each other. Danielle was safe for 2 TCs if it had come to that.

Her next good move was to align with Cirie. The alliance with Shane, Courtney and Aras was great to go to the merge but it wasn't reliable. While Aras and Shane didn't care which of Cirie or Melinda left, Danielle made a deal with Cirie. That hidden deal was the key to the season.

Next, Bruce returned from EI and Danielle and Cirie quickly made a Final 3 deal with him. That's why BobDawg had to go. Courtney voted against Bob but it had no strategic value for her besides blindly following Danielle and Cirie. Courtney and the Martial Arts teacher were never close yet the fire dancer saved him for Danielle and Cirie to use.

Danielle's next good move was to get Terry to show her that he had the hidden immunity "item" (sic). She managed to stay in between LaMina and Casaya without getting burned. Not an easy task. She couldn't go with Terry because she'd be certain to lose all the Casaya jury votes but she still kept Terry thinking she would eventually side with him. That earned her his vote at F4 which, when you think about it, made no sense for Terry. He had to win F3 IC so why care which one went at F4?

Yes, today knowing that Danielle would win the final challenge it's easy to say that she should have gone with Courtney at F6 but, at the time, Courtney came with huge luggage: Terry. Courtney was incredibly stupid to think that Terry could be beaten in front of the Jury. Danielle knew better. From her POV she'd have to beat both Terry and Courtney in F3 immunity to have any chance. That was a rotten deal. I'm always amazed when posters write that she should have accepted it.

Danielle's game was hurt badly by Bruce's medical evacuation. At F8, she had one F3 deal with Cirie and Bruce another with Terry and Sally, Courtney was sure they were F2 partners while Danielle still had the F4 deal with Aras, Shane and Courtney. Of course, Cirie also had a F3 deal with Aras and Shane but Cirie's strategic prowess is well documented.

In addition to Bruce's departure, Courtney flipping to Terry's side finished Danielle's game. She still got to the end and we know that Austin and Sally weren't thrilled to vote for either Aras or Danielle. She could have won the game with just a bit better FTC performance.

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Tublecane 141 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-10, 08:52 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Panama 101"
LAST EDITED ON 02-05-10 AT 09:00 PM (EST)


"That earned her his vote at F4 which"

Hard to say she "earned his vote," as he had to vote for one or the other and had no hope of Cirie benefitting him. I'd give her credit if she earned his idol, which would have been easy for him to sacrifice. But she didn't.

"when you think about it, made no sense for Terry. He had to win F3 IC so why care which one went at F4?"

Actually, he didn't know he had to win F3, since there was the hope that Danielle would take him. And, really, Danielle easily could have taken him. He didn't give her any worse chance than Aras, far as I can tell. Anyway, Terry is one of the worst strategists to make it to the final 3, so who knows, maybe he fully expected her to stick to their "deal".

"Yes, today knowing that Danielle would win the final challenge it's easy to say that she should have gone with Courtney at F6 but, at the time, but, at the time, Courtney came with huge luggage: Terry."

There's one big problem: she got Terry anyway. Even with the numbers, voting out Terry before F3 wasn't highly improbable. He would have had to lose both F5 and F4 immunity, given his hidden idol. So what did she gain? Slim chance of Terry out at F4 and the knowledge that if Aras won he would have taken her, whereas Courtney was against it. What did she lose? Courtney, the only person she could conceivably beat, as a goat.

Actually, there're two problems. She lost to Aras anyway, probably had no chance with Cirie, and had little chance to get Shane to the finals. She could have received less votes with Terry than anyone else, I guess, but what does it matter? She only got two.

"While Aras and Shane didn't care which of Cirie or Melinda left, Danielle made a deal with Cirie. That hidden deal was the key to the season."

Seems like a stretch to me. The only vote past Melinda Cirie had to suffer through was Bobby's, and he had isolated himself. Plus, it's not as if Danielle argued for Bobby over Cirie. The controversy was between Bobby and Bruce.

The Aras/Danielle/Cirie sub-alliance carried the day, but was that because of Danielle and Cirie's deal? What about Aras and Cirie's relationship? What about how Shane and Courtney were bat-poop crazy and wrote themselves out of the equation without much help from the secret powerhouse of the other three?

"She could have won the game with just a bit better FTC performance."

A bit? I suppose you could say that about anyone who wasn't absolutely blown out and didn't give everyone an impenetrable preconceived image like Russell.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-10, 09:57 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Panama 101"
LAST EDITED ON 02-06-10 AT 02:47 AM (EST)

"There's one big problem: she got Terry anyway."

There's one big hole in your argument as she also got someone that was adamant in getting rid of Terry. With Courtney, she would have had to beat both to be in the F3. With Aras, they were working together against Terry.

"Seems like a stretch to me. The only vote past Melinda Cirie had to suffer through was Bobby's, and he had isolated himself"

You should read what the players had to say about it before arguing.

"Plus, it's not as if Danielle argued for Bobby over Cirie. The controversy was between Bobby and Bruce."

The vote was between an ally and an opponent. BobDawg was close to Aras and would have flipped at the merge if necessary. Bruce was loyal to Danielle, even voted for her in the end so keeping him was crucial.

For the FTC, again I suggest you read what the players, especially Austin and Sally had to say. Those two votes were within reach. Enough to change a 5-2 defeat into a 4-3 win.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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02-06-10, 05:25 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Panama 101"
LAST EDITED ON 02-06-10 AT 05:47 PM (EST)

Still going with the "read what other contestants said" bit, aye? Even though their interviews are after the fact and typically filled with revisionist history and second guessing.

Even if Austin and Sally said straight out- "I would have voted for Danielle with a better FTC." What does that mean exactly? Probably nothing. Didn't Austin, lucky guy, get to spend an entire day huddled and shivering with Danielle in a storm at EI? Usually trying circumstances allow people to form a bond quickly, especially when they are about the same age. Yet, Austin still voted for Aras. Haha... what could Danielle have done in TC to change that? Nothing short of offering money or sexual favors in my book, and those would have cost her the other 2 votes she did get.

Sally, same argument. Why would she vote for Aras over a girl she originally started with? You blame many, including Russell just last season, for not making the bonds needed to win. Well, Danielle had two strong chances with Austin and Sally, and failed.

I find it comical that you would blithely express shock (hahaha... figure that one out!) at anyone pointing out the fact that if Danielle takes Terri's deal, and all else goes as it did, she would have won the game. Afterall, hindsight quarterbacking is what 75% of these posts, including your own, are about. Yeah, as you explained, it WAS understandable why Danielle played it safe rather than face the prospect of going against Terri and Courtney at F3. However, when a long shot is your only chance of winning, you need to take it. It is simple deduction.

Lastly, I don't agree with Tublecane that Terri was among the worst strategically to ever make the F3. I debate this all the time. It is no coincidence that dominant challenge performers like Tom and Terri get no credit for their strategical game. Terri and Austin strategically controlled La Mina, and post merge, Terri did everything he could to form an alliance with Casaya, even offering the golden goose to Danielle. The seemingly overlooked fact is that it didn't matter what Terri offered because he was so intimidating challenge-wise that fear of him kept Casaya together, and forced the pagonging, more than anything within Casaya did.


>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-06-10, 05:50 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Panama 101"
LAST EDITED ON 02-06-10 AT 05:52 PM (EST)

??? I know Danielle failed, never a question and I do blame her for not making the bonds that would have earned her the win. My post was just that she played a better game than most give her credit for. Tublecane didn't see any of her moves so I pointed some out.

You agree the flip to Terry was a longshot? Great. That's all that's needed because Danielle was in a great position with Cirie and Aras. You don't go for a longshot when you are the favorite and, from her perspective, she was in control. It's just that, like many viewers, she didn't know Cirie was really in charge.

Remember, at one point Cirie wanted Aras gone. She didn't care if Terry used his idol because that would get Aras voted out and Terry would leave the next time he lost a challenge. The winning streak and the fact that the idol was good until F4 (a ridiculous rule that was changed since) is what pushed Cirie away from Danielle towards Aras.

Finally, Terry's running of LaMina was horrible. Sally, Nick and Dan all agreed on that, during the show and later in interviews so no revisionism there.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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02-06-10, 06:58 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: Panama 101"
Sally, Nick and Dan all had reasons after their boots to be unhappy with how Terry handled things. Terry turned his back on Dan and voted for him. Terry hung on to beat Dan in the IC that would have saved him when Terry had the HII to protect himself. Terry was unable to make any alliances to save Sally and refused to give her the HII when they both knew she was going to be voted out.

So, again, I don't take their opinions of Terry as an unbiased indictment of his game. Their personal feelings certainly influence their perception of what happened.

Austin had as much control as Terry in the votes, if not more. So maybe they should be blaming him.

Also, regarding something new, you talked about Candice expecting Sundra to follow her in the mutiny. Of course, neither of them had any idea that the opportunity to mutiny would come. So, clearly, it couldn't have been anything they discussed beforehand. No, it was a split second decision by Candice, who I'm sure figured she would flop post merge anyway. If she was hoping Sundra would follow her, obviously she was mistaken, which only doubles the error.

If Candice truly felt Sundra would align with her post merge, all the more reason to NOT mutiny. Stay in tight with your current alliance. Get to the F5, and then use Sundra and Jonathan to take the power away from Yul and Becky. Considering Sundra appeared tighter with Becky than anyone else, there was virtually no danger of either of them being booted before Ozzy.

Personally, I don't think there is ANY chance Sundra would have mutinied, but I'm willing to admit that Candice should know better than me, just watching on TV.
>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-06-10, 08:16 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Panama 101"
Well before being voted out, Nick said that Terry's hollow rationalization for booting Ruth over Sally was bad. That was on the show itself. Dan added that Ruth should have stayed to help LaMina make a connection with Cirie. Dan pleaded to stay over one of the young guys because he could connect with Shane who they thought was running Casaya. Dan left saying that Terry couldn't think strategically, that only strength mattered to him. Sally said that LaMina was a boys' club so she was ready to flip at the merge. She went to Danielle and Courtney and told them she could be with them. Danielle and Courtney simply didn't need Sally.

Cook Islands was the location of "Mutiny on the Bounty" so, yes the players were discussing a possible mutiny. Remember this (kinky) challenge:


What do you think Candice and Parvati discussed when they were alone, away from everyone? Candice said she used the opportunity to establish that Adam and Parvati were in a good position on NuRaro.

Then there was Nate's kidnapping. Both Candice and Sundra talked with him about the possibility of forming a F5 alliance with Adam and Parvati. Nate was all for it so that's why Candice mutinied and was sure Sundra would follow. Player interviews often are very helpful.


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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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02-07-10, 02:58 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: Panama 101"
Austin had as much or more to do with Ruth Ann's jettison. Terry would have had to been willing to force a tie to save her, and he wasn't even willing to do that to save Dan. The idea of Dan bonding with Shane is pretty funny. Did he have a pack of cigs on him?

I'm sure Candice did discuss a renewal of their alliance with Parvati. As I said, it explains why she mutinied.

I'm also sure the subtitle - "Mutiny on the Bounty" probably wasn't given to the season until AFTER they shot it. Again, even IF the players thought a shot a tribal switch was possible or probable, they didn't KNOW it was coming. That makes a big difference.

And, I do believe Candice waited until the last couple of seconds to mutiny, which is why Jonathan had to make a split second decision. So, at that point, it was pretty obvious Sundra wasn't going to mutiny, otherwise she would have done it already. Haha.. If as much forethought went into the mutiny as Candice tried to make it sound like afterwards, she would have immediately mutinied when given the chance and then looked for Sundra to follow. That's not what happened. No, she made a last second decision spurred on by the friends she had on Raro, as already agreed. Sundra had nothing to do with it.

Sundra didn't mutiny. She made the F4 and was an Ozzy immunity run from making the FTC. Candice spent the majority of her remaining time on Exile Island, crying like a baby, before being booted right after merge. Candice- poor decision. Sundra- good decision. Don't even need an opinion there. The results speak for themselves.

>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-10, 11:27 PM (EST)
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45. "Precisions"
Dan and Shane had gotten along well during the first 3 days.

"Candice- poor decision. Sundra- good decision. Don't even need an opinion there. The results speak for themselves."

Except Sundra = Absolutely 0 chances of winning the game.
Candice = Good shot at the win if Jeff doesn't pull a little bottle out of his a$$, if the merge is at 10, if Jonathan doesn't kill his own game, if Raro wins 1 of the next 2 immunities, if they have time to think about it and boot Jonathan instead of Jenny, etc... There were a lot of production twits that went against Candice after the mutiny.

And about the mutiny, you seem to think I'm pulling this out of my ass but this is what Sundra, not Candice, had to say:

http://www.survivorfever.net/s13_ign_sundra.html

Sundra: I could have stepped off the mat with Candice and that would have been the beginning of the end for me.

IGN TV: Speaking of that, Candice did mention that she thought you were going to mutiny with her. Why didn't you?

Sundra: I didn't have what I felt was an alliance on the other tribe. We had spoken to Nate about me going over. About me and Candice joining up with Adam, Nate and Parvati. But truth be told, even from our days at Hiki, I never felt a bond or that I could fully, 100% trust Nate, even from Hiki. So I, of course, spoke to Candice about it and we talked about it because I also felt that for me, being the lone Hiki member when we merged into the two tribes, I didn't know a lot about the game, but I know enough to know that you see the different possibilities. It would be stupid to not look at it"./

She goes on to say that she trusted Yul more than Candace but, if Aitu had failed, I'm sure she'd have a different story to tell.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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02-11-10, 00:03 AM (EST)
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46. "RE: Precisions"
Love Sundra. What a beautiful woman in every way.

She wasn't explaining what she was thinking at that time. She was just explaining after the fact where her head was at and why. That's what most these interviews are- retrospective. Everything she said was pretty much a matter of course. Of course she would talk to Nate and think about a Hiki connection postmerge. Again, her and Candice couldn't discuss a mutiny because they didn't know the chance would ever come. As I said before, Candice gave Sundra about 15 seconds to mutiny. Seeing she wasn't going to, Candice still stepped out. It had nothing to do with Sundra. Candice was lucky Jonathan made a split second decision to jump out as well. It helped her chances. If nothing else, Sundra's interview explains why Candice would have been doubly wrong to think Sundra would mutiny.

>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-11-10, 07:07 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: Precisions"
"Again, her and Candice couldn't discuss a mutiny because they didn't know the chance would ever come."

Candice was a fan of the show. She knew that a mutiny had been offered in Thailand and probably even that one had been offered in Pearl Island right after Rupert's kidnapping. See the parallel with Nate's kidnapping? But anyway, the interview shows that Candice and Sundra discussed a flip.

"As I said before, Candice gave Sundra about 15 seconds to mutiny. Seeing she wasn't going to, Candice still stepped out."

Were you there with a stopwatch? All was saw was a dramatic pause before Candice stepped off and, by the very fact that Jonathan followed, we know that Sundra had enough time to do the same.

When you think about it, in a game mainly based on numbers, Sundra was dumb not to jump at the chance of going up 8-4. In fact, all Aitu should have jumped, forcing a merge as Jeff explained they would have done.

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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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01-14-10, 06:59 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
Who I really like:

1. Cirie.
2. Sandra.
3. Tom.
4. J.T.

Who I like:

5. Rupert.
6. Boston Rob.
7. Stephenie.
8. Amanda.
9. James.

Who I can take or leave:

10. Parvati.
11. Colby.
12. Danielle.
13. Candice.
14. Sugar.
15. Courtney.

Who I don't like:

17. Tyson.

Who I really don't like:

18. Randy.
19. Coach.
20. RussHell!


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01-14-10, 11:51 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
Amanda
Boston Rob
JT
Tom
Parvati
Candice
Colby
Sandra
Randy
Coach
Stephenie
Courtney
Cirie
Russell
James
Sugar
Tyson
Danielle
Jerri
Poopert (the competitor I like, the extreme over-exposure I sure do not)


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SpotTheDifference 906 desperate attention whore postings
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01-15-10, 03:31 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
I...

LOVE
1. Tom Westman
2. Cirie Fields
3. Courtney Yates

LIKE
4. Rob Mariano
5. Amanda Kimmel
6. Colby Donaldson
7. Jerri Manthey
8. Sandra Diaz-Twine

KINDA LIKE
9. Stephenie LaGrossa
10. JT Thomas
11. Candice Woodcock
12. Sugar Kiper

AM NEUTRAL ABOUT
13. James Clement
14. Danielle diLorenzo

DISLIKE
15. Rupert Boneham
16. Parvati Shallow

SEVERELY DISLIKE
17. Tyson Apostol
18. Russell Hantz
19. Randy Bailey
20. Ben Wade

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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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01-18-10, 09:55 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
LIKE:
1. Jessica "Sugar" Kiper - At least by her Gabon edit, should have contended for the win. Here's to another run by the not-really-a-dumb-blonde.
2. Russell Hantz - If he deserved to lose Samoa, I didn't see it. He'll be lethal this time - definitely rooting for him and Sugar.
3. Tom Westman - Was good to see an alpha male win instead of getting voted off before his time while some useless sack of poop wins in his place.
4. Rupert Boneham - Perfect? No. Overexposed? Absolutely. Endlessly entertaining? One-hundred-effing-percent.
5. James Clement - Good to see him back after a medevac - wonder what would have been had he stayed.
6. James "J.T." Thomas, Jr. - Good guy, strong competitor, hard worker, only perfect game in Survivor history.
7. Sandra Diaz-Twine - Useless player the first time out, it seemed. Obvious candidate for first boot. Here's hoping she lasts longer than she did in the season I wrote.

NEUTRAL:
8. Amanda Kimmel - Great player, but in front of a jury, chokes like Zoidberg in front of Big Brother casting agents.
9. Rob "Boston Rob" Mariano - Does he count as a past winner since he's married to one?
10. Colby Donaldson - Kind of rubbed me the wrong way in Australia, but good to see him get a real second chance and not be a victim of Lex's complete insanity.
11. Cirie Fields - Meh. Good player, yes. Don't see her as much of a character, except for overcoming the whole "I hate leaves" thing. Possible ally with Westman.
12. Danielle DiLorenzo - Corinne would have been a much better choice as villain. And I effing hate Corinne.
13. Jerri Manthey - Like Colby, didn't like her in Australia, but got screwed by insane Lex. So it goes.

DON'T LIKE:
14. Tyson Apostol - Annoying, didn't think much for himself, and if he says "Co-Coach" even once this season, I'll reach through my 40" Samsung and rip his head off.
15. Candice Woodcock - It was not love at first sight for me. And why the hell is she a damn Hero? Was Shii-Devil busy or something?
16. Parvati Shallow - I didn't even like the caricature of her I wrote in All-Stars II. Please just go away, Perv-ati.
17. Benjamin "Coach" Wade - A liar, a scumbag, and a douchebag through and through. Only he would have a paid staff member as his loved one.
18,281. Stephenie LaGrossa - I didn't like her when she was in Palau, for eff's sake. She's no more a Hero than my cat is CEO of a Fortune 500 company.
19,843,325. Randy Bailey - Most irritating, snotty, miserable bastard ever to grace anyone's TV set. If he's not voted out quickly, I might snap and shoot my TV.
20,564,123,553. Courtney Yates - Originally tied with Randy - miserable, snotty, and irritating, not to mention useless - but then I remembered the disrespect for the locals at the start of China. I'd tell her to burn in hell, but she'd probably only burn for about ten seconds before she was all used up.

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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01-18-10, 01:17 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
In each group, in no particular order

You amuse me:

James--just sit there and look pretty
Colby--sit over there with James
Sandra--sure the "anybody but me" shouldn't have worked, but that it did, amuses me. Interested to see what she does this time.
Cirie--another one of those you wouldn't think goes far, but she does.
Sugar--Is she there for TV time not the game, sure, but she does it in a way that amuses me.
Amanda's Butt Blur--amuses me, Amanda not so much, but as long as she keeps the blur-meister busy she can stay in this group.
Jerri--Love to hate you, girl
Boston Rob-Love to hate you too
Tom--You may amuse me, especially during the challenges.
Courtney--well more amazes me that someone that skinny can live.
Rupert--over exposed, sure, make stupid decisions, yep, but he amuses me

Who?? (I know I should remember these people, but somehow they just didn't stick in my brain)
Danielle
Tyson
Candice
JT

Go Away
Parvarti--you are not that cute.
Stephanie--neither are you
Randy-soooo not cute, or funny. Just mean

Must resist use of tactical nuclear weapons when I see you
Coach--Die, please.
Russ-Hell--He turned those idol's into Horcruxes didn't he?

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Tublecane 141 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-10, 05:32 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
LAST EDITED ON 02-05-10 AT 05:34 PM (EST)

"Sandra--sure the 'anybody but me' shouldn't have worked, but that it did, amuses me. Interested to see what she does this time."

It wouldn't have worked the entire game. But at that point the only other viable player was Dalton, whose pathetic excuse for grand strategy was to be the most hated man on reality tv that week.

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Glow 14353 desperate attention whore postings
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01-19-10, 03:27 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
all I needed to hear...

Rob "Boston Rob" Mariano
James "J.T." Thomas, Jr.


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Carezy 72 desperate attention whore postings
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01-20-10, 04:11 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."

LOVE:

1. Parvati - I love her. I hope she's as strategic as Micro, and I hope that they don't scam her on the editing front.
2. Boston Rob - LOVE HIM. I hope he makes it far, he's very entertaining.
3. Courtney Y - I really enjoy her comments, sarcastic and snarky. AMAZING
4. Russell - I hope it's not the Russell show again this season, but he is entertaining... i'll give him that
5. Candice - She was my fav in Cook Islands... I hope she does well at challenges again, I love a strong female.

Like:

6. Sandra - HILARIOUS!!
7. Jerri - Sometimes she annoys me, but overall she's fun to watch.
8. Stephenie - I hope she can pull some of palau steph back into the game and not so much guatamala
9. Tom - I hope he's able to get past the first few tribal councils because he'll probably have a huge target on his back.
10. Cirie - Very funny, but everyone knows how social she is so she's got a target on her back too.

They're alright:

11. Randy - He loves dogs... so he's alright in my books!!
12. James - Cute, charming, funny... what's not to like??
13. Danielle - UTR, but she's got a brain. It'll be interesting to see how she can fit in with this group.
14. JT - While I loved him on his season, I don't really WANT to see him again...
15. Tyson - He's funny, so that's something... i guess

I could do without:

16. Amanda - I just don't want to see her again, not for several more seasons. TOO SOON since her back to back seasons...
17. Colby - I hope he's not bland
18. Rupert - I really liked him the first time, the second time he became annoying, and I can only imagine the third time...

REALLY DON'T LIKE:

19. Sugar - She was alright, but after the first half of the season she started to get on my nerves.
20. Coach - Really annoying the first time, hopefully won't get as much screen time.

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TanNymph 309 desperate attention whore postings
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01-25-10, 01:08 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
LOVE - Based on being smoking hot

Colby
J.T.

Love to hate - Based on being entertaining tv

Coach
Russell
Rob
Tyson

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Spanky68 8092 desperate attention whore postings
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01-25-10, 02:36 PM (EST)
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13. "I can't wait for the season"
love, Love, LOVE!:

1. Colby=- Texan. Strong. Honest. What more do you want?
2. JT- a close 2nd. But he isn't Texan
3. Tom- physical force and an easy winner

Like em a lot:

4. Rupert- he was more fun in Panama than the 2nd time. But I am hoping he is still a hoot to watch.
5. James- strong guy. Not real good at the planning part of the game.
6. Cirie- I liked watching her overcome her limitations. I like her as a person more than I thought I would.
7. Russell- I started out hating him because of his sexism and conniving ways. But I couldn't take my eyes off the season and it was mostly because of how polarizing he is. I expect him to be booted quickly, but with all these snakes on this season, who knows?
8. Amanda- I was pulling for her the first time, and not necessarily because she's hot. I didn't see her as being as hot as most people did, apparently.

Kind of like them:
9. Candice- she just struck me as a sympathetic character.
10. Sugar- again, I didn't ever find her HOT. But I found myself rooting for her to stay on the game.

Don't care much one way or the other:
11. Courtney- Frankly, I don't remember her at all.
12. Danielle- I know I saw that season, but I don't remember her being on the show.
13. Stephanie- I vaguely remember respecting her strength, but don't feel strongly about her either way.

mild dislike-
14. Sandra- I thought she was one of the least compelling winners ever.
15. Parv- I would like her less if I paid any attention to her, I suppose.
16. Randy- I found him to be a jerk, albeit an entertaining one.
17. Rob- If a contestant's conceit and smugness could hurt my television, he would owe me a set or two.

can't STAND them!:
18. Tyson- An unhinged jerk.
19. Jerri- conceited and a jerk.
20. Coach- conceited, delusional jerk. I still believe he lied about his Amazon adventure.



Agman made this fancy sig for me


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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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01-28-10, 06:42 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
I know this post is lengthy but this will be my first and most likely my last post for THIS season. Most know how I feel about players coming back and almost half the cast coming back for not a second but a THIRD season is nothing short of ridiculous IMO.

For those who feel challenges are mere "backdrops" or "sideshows" just for entertainment purpose, cover your eyes...

My "prediction" is the tribe who comes ahead in the team challenges will once again stack the jury and decide the winner. Although that's not much of a prediction but more a case of commonsense based on past history. The last two seasons we saw the tribe low in numbers at merge advance players as Finalists. I can't see that happening THREE times in a row. On paper the tribes look pretty "challenge even" so I won't guess who will emerge with the post merge advantage, but whoever does will more than likely reap the benefits.

OK, all you Social Butterflies can take your hands away from your eye now. LOL

I don't think there's anyone more critical of Production and casting selection than I. But out of the 20 castaways, 14 made the F4 in a prior season (Tyson, Randy, James, Jerri, Coach, and Candice the only ones who did not.) I guess if you're going to have this format it's hard to argue with that track record. Now whether all "deserved" to make the F4 is a topic that will be debated for as long as this Forum is up.

My list is more of an ASSESSMENT than a ranking, so here goes...

THOSE DESERVING TO PARTICIPATE THIS SEASON:

TOM WESTMAN
JT THOMAS

Each appeared in only one prior season and went on to proactively and deservingly post a dominant win. Problem is the other 18 know that. Whereas the Anti-Darwin Snydrome was not much of a factor the past two seasons, it'll probably come back with a vengence for these two. That being said, Tom and JT have a better chance sniffing pork chops and bacon at a Bar Mitzvah than catching a sniff of the Finals this season. Quite honestly I would be surprised if either even makes the Jury.

DESERVING WITH AN *:

SANDRA DIAZ-TWINE

Like Tom and JT, played in only one prior season and was the last Survivor standing...but that's where the similarity ends. Sandra emerged from the worst F4, the worst F3, and the worst F2 in Survivor history. But a win is a win, so hard to criticize Production for asking her back. How will she fare in S20? It will depend on my earlier "prediction" about team challenge dominance. Don't get me wrong...I have nothing against team dominance so long as the benefitted player has a hand in that dominance. If the Heros kick the crap out of the Villains, Sandra doesn't make it past the first week. If the Villains hand the Hero's asses to them in the challenges, Sandra probably gets her Golden Ticket punched to the F4.
Once again, not an intelligent call; just the way it usually works in this game for the pathetic and inept.

DESERVES A SECOND SHOT:

RUSSELL HANTZ

Hard-nosed player who was far from Miss Congeniality but deserved to win in a game called "SURVIVOR" last season so I don't have a problem asking him back. What I do have a problem with is the unfair advantage of being the only castaway the others know nothing about. Another noteworthy fact is the filming of this season took place BEORE the winner of S19 was announced. Those facts being stated, Russell probably plays the same game he did in Samoa. The Million-Dollar Question is which female(s) will he suck into his "Dumb-A$$ Girl Alliance?" And I mean "Million-Dollar" literally because that lucky sole could coattail her way to a big payday in May...ala Natalie.

I WANNA BE LIKE AMB"A" AND THE SKANK:

TYSON, RANDY, DANIELLE, SUGAR, COACH, CANDICE, COURTNEY

These players will try to join Amber and Parvati as players who were losers in their initial season but benefited by a second opportunity. If any of these seven emerge victorious, they will be a million-dollars richer but not mentioned among the top players ever in my mind because they failed in their first attempt.

THE REMAINING NINE GIVE A NEW MEANING TO THE TERM "DAWs" (Deparate Attention-Seeking Whores):

RUPPERT, JAMES, COLBY, CIRIE, AMANDA, STEPHANIE, JERRI, ROB, PARVATI

GIVE IT UP LOSERS!!!!!!

Well OK...I guess I have to make an exception for the Ho who was handed the "win" in Skankivor: Micronesia. She's the only third-timer I can understand a callback because of that "win." She's also the only one this season I honestly have no idea where she'll place. If not for Amb"a", Perv-ati "lays down" for Rob and coattails to a win. But Rob does have a wife and child now. OHHH NOOO...PLEEEASE let's not have another Fairplay from Skankivor: Micronesia!

Actually the only villain male I can see gravitating toward a sleazy woman is Tyson. But he's probably too much of a wack job for even a skank like Perv-ati. What the Perv does have in her favor is never being percieved as a challenge threat so she may be able to string along that way. I dunno...I never cared much for what happens to a slut in real life so I really could care less what happens to a TV reality show slut.

Well there you have it Folks. I see the pot has already been stirred, but I'm sure my post dumped a couple bottles of Frank's Hot Sauce into the mix.

A special message for my main man MICHEL...

Not sure whether it will be tears of joy or tears of sorrow without me around, but I'll send a box of kleenex your way. Ali had Frazier, Navaritalova had Chris Evert, Nicklaus had Palmer...but I'm sure you'll do fine without me. As a matter of fact you'll probably flourish without me hovering around to clip the wings off the Social Butterfly. HaHa

I haven't seen our third "Foxhole Amigo" (Iltarion) lurking around, but if/when he pops in, just give him the lowdown that I'll be back when CBS decides to air a REAL Survivor season.

For those who are cool with this format, ENJOY!

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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01-28-10, 06:21 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
Too bad. I had the same reaction at first but then I realized I'll be watching the Super Bowl even if Manning is playing in it a second time. Rookies are fun to discover but the veterans know how to play Survivor for real.
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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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01-29-10, 05:41 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
HMMM...if NFL Commissioner Godell and his committee went through a selection process to determine which teams/players participate in the Superbowl and the same players were being selected, then I would react in the same manner and probably not watch the Superbowl either.

Fact is Manning (and the Colts) WON the necessary games to earn a spot in the Superbowl game. But hey, Kudos to you for trying to use a sports analogy...I dig that!

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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01-29-10, 05:49 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
LAST EDITED ON 01-29-10 AT 05:52 PM (EST)

But the Colts' GM and Coach did choose which players would make the roster at the start of the year, before winning any real games. They chose mostly returning players. I still watched the whole season. A game is a game.

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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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01-30-10, 07:54 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
HOLY SMOKES!!!! I still know a name of a good rotator cuff surgeon...you HAD to have injured something with THAT stretch! LMAO LMAO LMAO

After that strenuous response this is DEFINITELY my last post until CBS decides to air a REAL season.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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01-30-10, 01:21 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
You may say you're laughing but I know that you are dying to see Tom performing again. You know the odds are against him so you're discrediting the product before even seeing it.

Me, I'm not a fan of anyone so I'm going to see if there's a good story to enjoy. As long as "Sweet and Low" or co-coach don't ruin it again, it should be good.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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02-01-10, 06:25 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."

"This battle is bringing together the most wonderful people." - Braveheart

Last things First, what is this BS about Aruba taking the season off? That is completely unacceptable. Man your station, soldier!

"Asteroids do not concern me, Admiral. I want that ship and not excuses." - The Empire Strikes Back

Okay. Here's the list ranked in order:

1. Rob M- Always #1 in my book. Could be on every season for all I care.
2. Tom Westman- True example of an All-Star.
3. JT - ditto Tom
4. Colby- Always glad to see him. The original Survivor celebrity
5. Amanda - Best female player, would be higher if it weren't her 3rd time, which is a little ridiculous, except for Rob M and Colby who are the exceptions to the rule
6. Russell Hantz- Absolutely dominated lesser players, now for the test
7. Coach - Seriously, glad to see him back.
8. Tyson - one of the best confessional characters ever, so glad for that
9. Parvati - out of the rest of the women, most deserving, though like Amanda, a 3rd trip lowers her ranking. Always a dangerous player though this group might be a little older than her ideal.
10. Sandra - only fact that she is a former winner gives her this spot
11. Rupert- celebrity alone is good enough for him to be slightly deserving
12. James- 3rd time is a little much, great guy though
13. Danielle- undeserving, but her bikini is good enough for #13
14. Cirie - great strategical player, but again, AGAIN?
15. Candice - completely undeserving but gets #15 on being somewhat nice to look at
16. Sugar - the fact that out of the more recent casts she is one of the more deserving women frankly illustrates my point that the women have been horrendously cast for many seasons now
17. Courtney- Seriously? No BIZNESS being on this season
18. Randy- Shows being nothing but a king prick can be a ticket to reality stardom
19. Stephanie- Seriously? Interest in her ended halfway through her second season.
20. Jeri - Aw, come on! Some sleeping dogs are better left alone.


Laura would kick the crap out of 8 or 9 of the women on this list and not break a sweat. Or how about PG or Tina? Instead? Retreads.

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Tublecane 141 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-10, 04:53 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
LAST EDITED ON 02-05-10 AT 05:50 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 02-05-10 AT 05:06PM (EST)

Love As Players (in that order):

Boston Rob: Best player never to win. Biggest innovator since Hatch, introducing both the sub-alliance flip and the solution to the sub-alliance flip: the multiple sub-alliance. Had probably the most dominant strategic season ever (ignoring the technicality of the final vote).

Cirie: Genius of subtle strategy and genuinely likeable human being

Russell: Master of the Art of the Bold Move, even if he's the one I'd least like to meet in real life

Sandra: Pulled herself together after a post-merge shake-up that would have killed most people's games (though having Johnny "Fairplay" as a mighty opposite didn't hurt)

Parvati: Hated her first time; liked her later

Amanda: Decent strategist, but doesn't know how to handle her more boastful and/or sociable alliancemates

JT: Wins the all-time Everyone Else Is Boob for Keeping Me In prize

Tom: Didn't have much strategy, but didn't need it as he played everything else pretty much perfectly. Made Ian quit (and possibly cry), which I don't know whether to categorize as strategic or just plain mean

(I'd add Sugar if the object of the game wasn't to make sure the person you like beats you)

Hate As Players (In That Order):

Coach: Claimed to want to change the game, then immediately started playing like everyone else, only really, really poorly. Remind me, how was Brendan a Dragon instead of a Warrior? Oh, right, he wasn't in Coach's alliance. Plus, Coach was a liar. Not a game-liar, a life -liar.

Randy: Oddly enough, universal hatred is not a useful response to meeting new people.

James: He's stupid. Game-stupid, not real-life stupid. Maybe real-life stupid, too.

Jerri: What did she ever accomplish, really? Her only alliance in Australia was with Amber, and nobody cared about her in All-Stars. She was right about Lex making the second-stupidest move in Survivor history, though.

Rupert: A strong personality honed by years of real or perceived outsiderness and victimhood cuts both ways. It can help you into a tribal/alliance leadership position as often as make people deathly afraid of, and consequently less likely to deal with, your wrath.

Candice: Jonathan mutineed to be with you. You can't show him more than icey indifference and hidden contempt?


Indifferent About:

Courtney: She's a #####, but what do I care? It's not aimed at me. She's also not that funny, but not too annoying. It's a push!

Danielle: Not much to say.

Stephenie: One of the few (alongside Colby) for whom the "hero" label actually makes sense. That is, in her first season. Second time around she was a #####. Which I guess was good for her, since that time she actually mattered, game-wise (as opposed to audience-wise).

Like To Look At (in that order):

Amanda
Parvati
Stephenie
Sugar (with someone else doing her make-up)
Danielle (from certain angles and with her mouth shut)
Courtney (with an additional 20 pounds)
Colby (not that I'm gay)
James (not that I'm gay)


Other Players I'd Like to See Again:

Dreamz: Just to see whether he was a grand-strategist or making it up as he went along. Results would no doubt be inconclusive again.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-10, 06:38 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
Morono is DEFINITELY NOT, the best player never to win. There are many better. What did he do wrong? Where to start? OK, with this incredibly stupid move: Voting out Tom at F5. All that Romber had worked for went down the drain with that vote because it gave Rupert and Jenna an equal opportunity.
And, when you vote out people the most basic rule is not to laugh in their face. Morono did it to everyone.
No, Morono is the funniest schemer ever but not the smartest.

Regarding Jerri, her alliance was with Mitchell, Tina, Colby and Amber. It wasn't her fault that Tina was simply smarter. Very few have ever been that smart.

Candice had carefully planned that mutiny and Sundra was the one that was supposed to follow but Sundra got cold feet. Candice didn't want anything to do with Jonathan and his move hurt her in the sense that Raro figured they had to be close. She had to distance herself from him.

Too bad you don't see the marvelous basher that is Courtney. She always cracks me up. Did you see her interview where she's asked if Amanda was the worst ever in front of a jury? She answered no because Amanda did get a vote "not like someone I know" she added. That's hilarious considering she's going out with Tocantin's Stephen!

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Tublecane 141 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-10, 09:30 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
LAST EDITED ON 02-05-10 AT 09:35 PM (EST)

"OK, with this incredibly stupid move: Voting out Tom at F5. All that Romber had worked for went down the drain with that vote because it gave Rupert and Jenna an equal opportunity."

Nothing was lost. Not equal at all, really. Their plan was to turn Rupert and Jenna against eachother, and they did. Rob and Amber wouldn't be turned, and as such Romber was destined to win the game of chicken. So I don't see the big problem. People are scared of ties, and Rupjen wasn't a fortress.

Not having Tom as a vote against Rup or Jen made it a little tougher, but not so tough as to make it stupid, much less incredibly stupid. Also, Tom was less dangerous at the final, probably, than Rupert. But there was an upside, in that Rob kept Rupert and Jenna happy with him. They ended up throwing him two votes in the finale. Stands to reason they might have blamed him had he and Amber split them up at F5. That's risking two sour votes iagainst Tom's one.

That's one iffy move which didn't end up hurting them. How about the rest of the votes, all of which were controlled by Rob and all of which were in my opinion correct?

"when you vote out people the most basic rule is not to laugh in their face. Morono did it to everyone"

I bet that's an exaggeration, but even if he did, he only lost by a vote. Aparently three of them weren't too offended.

"Regarding Jerri, her alliance was with Mitchell, Tina, Colby and Amber"

Mitchell didn't make it far and Colby was never with her.

"Candice had carefully planned that mutiny and Sundra was the one that was supposed to follow but Sundra got cold feet. Candice didn't want anything to do with Jonathan"

I don't care that she was distant at first, so long as she didn't burn bridges (because you never know). Whenever she ended up realizing she'd need Jonathan's vote after the merge, however, she should have been the one, if anyone, to make him feel at home. But they alienated him, to the point he was willing to lose to shift the power away from her alliance. And it's not really gameplay, but the way she treated him after his flip was ugly.

"his move hurt her in the sense that Raro figured they had to be close. She had to distance herself from him."

So far as I remember, all their suspicion fell on Jonathan alone, not Candice. I can understand her being distant just to be sure, but she was golden with Parvati and her boyfriend, and thus had nothing to fear. Again, it's that she dismisses the possibility that Jonathan will be around post-merge and that her majority will be slim. Even worse is when she knows these things are true and does nothing to reverse her strategy.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-06-10, 02:08 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
Debating A$$ and Australia has been done to death but here goes..again: Keeping Tom over Poopert at F5 was the thing to do. It removed all the importance of the F4 immunity because one of Tom or Jenna was going home for sure. Had Poopert or Jenna won F4 immunity, Romber was in trouble. Furthermore, I see Poopert has a stronger player than Tom for that F3 immunity and unbeatable in front of the jury. With Lamber's, JLew's, Poopert's, and at least one vote from Alicia, Shiit Ann and Kathy, Morono beats Big Tom.

Colby was not only with Jerry but he was following her lead until the dramatic episode 4 TC where Tina worked her magic.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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02-06-10, 05:00 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
Haha... I see michel is still giving Tina credit for all the decisions COLBY made in Australia. I guess Tina had Colby hypnotised. I won't rehash that ancient argument though.

Actually, I think a good case can be made that Rob M not only was the best runner-up in Survivor history, but that he was the best and biggest WINNER in Survivor history. Afterall, how can you say he didn't win? I would take a good wife and mother of my children over a million dollars any day. Some things just can't be bought.

Rob faced the best competition, including a tribe with Lex, Colby and Ethan, and completely dominated in challenges. Remember the build a shelter challenge? The balance beam challenge? The face-off challenge? Rob almost single-handedly won all those challenges. He had complete strategical control over Chapera, virtually controlling every boot, and is still the only castaway in Survivor history to be so feared that he controlled the boot on the OPPOSITE tribe! Remember when Rupert won the challenge that allowed him to pick the meals for everyone? He gave Rob the biggest meal, besides his own, and picked in pretty much the exact order that Rob would have directed him to. Rob truly was the Robfather, and the only player we've since with near as much recognized power in the game was King Yul.

Nearly every criticism of Rob's game, including those presented by michel, involve mistakes that cost him at the FTC. However, keep in mind this is the same guy who famously quoted midway through the game that at the end he and Amber would be spending his money, or hers. Now, I'm sure Rob wanted to win, just for his own ego, but that doesn't change the fact that his plan was to make it to the end with Amber. As long as he "won" her, he would win the million regardless.

As I've argued many times before, regardless of his arguable strategic blunders with Alicia and Tom, I still think Rob could have won with a better FTC. He let his emotions get away from him when his supposed "friend" so vehemently attacked him at the start of the FTC. He basically sulked and pouted after that instead of going Todd Herzog and just holding his chin up and coolly explaining his game.

But how can you say that makes him a failure considering what he planned on winning, and what he did finally win? More than any other Survivor to ever play the game.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-06-10, 05:29 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
Fact: Mitchell and Colby wanted to vote out Keith in episode #3 but Jerri and Tina convinced them to stay on course and vote Mad Dog first, Keith next.

Fact: The Ogawhore5 left for TC on episode 4 certain that Keith was going home. On the way to tribal, Tina walked up to Mitchell and told him that Lamber had to go because they needed Keith. Mitchell declined, saying he'd rather lose than vote out a friend. Tina walked back to Colby and convinced him to change his vote from Keith to Mitchell. That's what happened on the way to TC. Tina took charge not Colby.

About Morono, I don't care for soap operas. What I care for is the title of Sole Survivor. Morono wasn't.

As for being "so feared that he controlled the boot on the OPPOSITE tribe!" he only managed that because he had a F4 alliance with Lex, Kathy and Big Tom before the game ever started. He did well in challenges but others have done as well. James won many tribal challenges almost on his own. Does that make him a great survivor? Don't get me wrong I like Morono but he's not as great as his fan make him out to be.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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02-06-10, 06:39 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
You always put a lot of stock in Tina's persuasive power, just like you do in Danni Boatwright's. I, on the other hand, give credit and blame to the people who actually made the decisions. That is just the fundamental difference between us, always has been.

I'm not going to point out facts of the season to support myself. It's been done before.

I just want to point out this instead. After years of intelligent debate between two people who obviously know a lot about the subject, we still do not agree on whether TIna or Colby deserves the majority of the credit. You have not persuaded me off my point, and I have not persuaded you. You see, it is difficult and RARE to ever persuade someone to change their mind after it is set. So, did Tina persuade Colby to change his vote? Or did he decide his vote on his own, considering the circumstances and his own reasons? We both know the answer for each of us.

You don't care for "soap operas"?? HAHAHAHAHAHA... could have fooled me!

If Mariano ONLY won challenges, then your comparison with James would be valid. Did James lead his tribe? Either time? Did he control the hierarchy? Did he decide who stays and who goes? Rob did all those things. True, Lex never votes out Jerri if not for the BS pre-show alliance, but Rob's recognized power in the game also factored into the decision. Lex wanted to appease Rob. If Lex is looking at a 6-4 tribal majority postmerge either way, he probably makes a different decision.


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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-06-10, 09:20 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
Neither Colby or Tina were happy about voting out Keith which "the powers that be" had decided needed to go but it was Tina who did the legwork. The new scheme that was developed on the way to TC she alluded to while voting for Mitchell was her doing. And it didn't end there: After the merge, Colby thought it was too early to vote out Jerri but Jerri was voted out. Colby didn't want Amber voted out but Amber was voted out. Who made those decisions? Tina. Alicia even said that Lis was playing smart, going to Tina to save herself. Rodger went to Tina to plead for Lis at F5. Why? Who won by telling the jury it was all about strategy? Tina. If the players thought Colby was making the decisions they would have said Tina was full of BS but the players knew Tina was making the decisions.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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02-07-10, 03:06 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
I seem to remember Colby writing the name down of the person who wasn't going to the Finals and therefore allowing the other person to go along with him to the Finals. The biggest decision in the season was Colby's. Tina had no control over it. Her entire game ultimately rested on Colby's call. No one can even say Tina was better off with Colby making the call because Keith still voted for Colby. Fortunately for Tina, being seen as the leading man was more important to Colby than winning Survivor.


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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-07-10, 03:38 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
"No one can even say Tina was better off with Colby making the call because Keith still voted for Colby."

Keith voted Tina as did Alicia, Lis and Jerri.

Do you reduce the whole season to 1 decision? Certainly Tina was lucky that Colby took her in the end but she trusted him to do just that and Colby has always said it was the thing to do, that he couldn't have done it without Tina.

Compare with your "King Yul" who I thought was extremely naive to offer Becky his HII at F4. She could have turned around and voted him off, improving her chances of winning the million. Yul understood Becky well enough to know she wouldn't betray him. Same thing applies to Tina with Colby. That means it wasn't only luck.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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02-07-10, 05:27 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
Haha... we appear to be rehashing the old argument, afterall.

I would say there is a big difference between Yul giving Becky his HII and her then turning around and voting him off versus Colby winning the FIC, having thus earned the right to decide who goes to the Finals, and then voting Tina off. In that situation, I think Tina still votes for Colby, recognizing it as a small but necessary betrayal.

There is no naivette in Yul offering Becky the HII. He knew she wouldn't vote for him. Doing so would have done nothing but hand Ozzy the game. As most his late moves were, that was done solely to impress the jury with his loyalty. Becky accepting the HII would have done nothing but screw Sundra out of her shot in the tie-breaker, which considering the result, both probably wish Becky would have taken the HII afterall. Their mutual failure to make fire made the winner a persona non grata regardless. (I couldn't care less that they couldn't make fire, BTW. Either of them could leave lighting the fires to me. And continued props to the Aitu4 for going to the ultra-fair tie-breaker to decide things. For loyalty to one another, we've still never seen their like before or since.)

Not sure where I got the info from, but I always believed Keith voted for Colby. I don't think Keith would vote out of spite. So, if he voted for Tina, that says a lot about who was really in charge. He spent the most time with both of them. He should know. Still, Tina doesn't make the end without Colby either, so...


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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-10, 10:05 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
LAST EDITED ON 02-10-10 AT 10:32 PM (EST)

People I'm Excited To See Again
1. Sandra Diaz-Twine - I'm most excited to see Sandra back because she is the most old-school player on the show that only played once. I suspect she might get knocked off early as older females have trouble early on... But I hope she sticks around.
2. Colby Donaldson - Was never a huuuuge Colby fan (I'm more of a Tina person), but I'm interested to see how he'll do with all these new people.
3. Jerri Manthey - Same as Colby above. I thought she got a pretty bad rap after All-Stars, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.
4. Rupert Boneham - Not a big Rupert fan either, but again, it's been awhile since we've seen him play the game.

People That'll Be Fun to Watch
5. Parvati Shallow - I'm a sucker for Parvati. It'll be neat to see how she plays the game now that everyone knows she's a threat. She played such a good game in FvF that I kind of want to see her do it again.
6. Benjamin "Coach" Wade - The guy bugs the heck out of me, but he's still fun to watch.
7. Randy Bailey - Same as Coach, but Randy strikes me as being a more layered person that should be entertaining.
8. Rob "Boston Rob" Mariano - Pretty tired of this DAW, but he's still Boston Rob. And it'll be interesting to see what happens now that everyone knows his shtick.
9. Tom Westman - Not a huge fan of him because I found him a little tiring after awhile in Palau. I was so pleased to write the Finale summary for that season. Still, as a former winner, his game should be interesting to watch.
10. Jessica "Sugar" Kiper - Just because of how unpredictable she was in the first season. And she's cute too.
11. James "J.T." Thomas, Jr. - See Tom above. I like J.T. more than Tom, but I'm more intrigued by seeing Tom come back, if that makes any sense.

Getting Tired Of
12. James Clement - Third appearance
13. Russell Hantz - With how much focus he had last year, it'll practically be his third appearance.
14. Cirie Fields - Third appearance
15. Stephenie LaGrossa - Third appearance, the after-taste from Guatemala hurts too.
16. Amanda Kimmel - Third appearance

Why???
17. Courtney Yates - I kinda like the odd observations she'd have, but that's about it.
18. Tyson Apostol - Bringing back Coach is great, bringing back a henchman, not so much.
19. Candice Woodcock - I only remember her because of the Jonathan thing. And that's about it.
20. Danielle DiLorenzo - She's probably going to win, because the least memorable person always does with these things.


A 2003 IceCat original

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DoodleBug 5133 desperate attention whore postings
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02-11-10, 02:55 PM (EST)
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47. "RE: Survivor #20 Preseason Love/Loathe List."
I'm most excited to see Tom, Colby, Jerri, Russell, Cirie, James, Rob, JT and Rupert

Lukewarm welcome from me.... Sugar, Stephanie, Danielle, Amanda, Sandra

Get booted soon.... Tyson, Randy, Coach, Parvati, Candice, and Courtney

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