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"News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
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tjcrew 69 desperate attention whore postings
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10-23-09, 11:22 AM (EST)
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"News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
"Survivor": Bureaucracy

Yul Kwon (Courtesy of Yul Kwon)Finally, someone qualified to navigate the backstabbing intrigue of Washington: Yul Kwon, winner of "Survivor: Cook Islands" in 2006, was appointed Wednesday as deputy chief of the FCC's Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau.

He may not be the administration's only independently wealthy appointee ($1 million prize, hello!), but he's probably the only one whose wedding was covered by TV Guide Channel and who co-hosted "Shark Week."

Kwon really stands out, though, as one of the few reality victors to, well, amount to anything. "A lot of 'Survivor' winners have been poor role models," he acknowledged, as we recalled the one convicted of tax evasion, the one who got into porn -- oh, and don't forget the "Big Brother" winner arrested last week on drug charges.

The difference, said the Yale law grad, 34, is that the show "happened at a good time in my life." Like his second runner-up Becky Lee -- a close pal now running a domestic-violence ed program in D.C. -- he said he joined the show "to have a platform for the issues I care about." Passionate about getting minorities involved in politics, Kwon was an early Obama campaigner.

"I feel like this country is in a critical time right now," he told us. "If there's one place you can have an impact, it's here."

Kwon just moved to ##### from California with bride Sophie
Tan. In the new job, he said, he'll be tasked with making the commission more consumer-friendly and educating the public on "why telecom issues are relevant to their lives."


All the scheming of "Survivor" -- will it help in D.C.? "I played a clean game!" he insisted. "I showed you could win by playing with integrity." However, he saw the irony that his new agency "has imposed fines for the kind of wardrobe malfunctions that are a hallmark of a show like 'Survivor.' " With the next controversial ruling, "I'm sure there are going to be a billion shots of me on the Internet wearing a grass skirt."

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... iltarion 10-23-09 1
 RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... garcor 10-24-09 2
 RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... Belle Book 10-25-09 3
 RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... michel 10-25-09 4
   RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... garcor 10-25-09 5
       RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... michel 10-25-09 6
           RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... iltarion 10-25-09 7
               RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... michel 10-25-09 8
           RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... garcor 10-26-09 9
               RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... michel 10-26-09 10
                   RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... iltarion 10-26-09 11
                       RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... michel 10-26-09 12
                   RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... garcor 10-27-09 13
                       RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... michel 10-27-09 14
                           RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... garcor 10-27-09 15
                               RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... michel 10-27-09 16
                                   RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... garcor 10-30-09 17
                                       RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... michel 10-30-09 18
                                           RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... garcor 10-31-09 19
                                               RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... michel 10-31-09 20
                                                   RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... Belle Book 10-31-09 21
                                                   RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... garcor 10-31-09 22
                                                       RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... michel 11-01-09 23
                                                           RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... garcor 11-01-09 24
                                                               RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul ... michel 11-01-09 25

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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10-23-09, 03:25 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
Congrats to Yul, a great guy, and still one of the greatest winners. The guy is deputy chief at the age of 34? Wow. Nice to hear that Becky is doing well and making a difference as well. As part of the Aitu4, with Sondra and Ozzy, they were part of the most memorable alliance I have ever seen on Survivor.


>

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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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10-24-09, 10:56 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
Don't forget shooting puppies with a bow and arrow. Now that's a role model.
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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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10-25-09, 11:27 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
Congratulations, Yul! And I'm glad Becky is running a domestic-violence education program in D.C.! Yul was my favorite winner, and I'm glad that he's doing so well! Incidentally, he's right in saying that he played a pretty clean game -- but he still was plotting his path to the million bucks!


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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-25-09, 03:24 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
"I played a clean game!" he insisted. "I showed you could win by playing with integrity."

Please! I guess it depends on your definition of integrity but lets count his lies:

- He lied to everyone in Aitu, except Becky, because he was asked as early as episode #3 if he had the HII and he said he didn't.

- In episode #3, he told Cao Boi, who was planning to vote out Becky, that the Asians had to vote together. In episode #5, he told Cao Boi that he agreed with his plan Voodoo and would vote out Jonathan. He voted out Cao Boi.

- He told Jonathan that they were in a strong F4 alliance with Candace and Becky then he turned around and told Candace and Becky that Jonathan had to go before Sundra.

- He flipped Jonathan by promising him F3. He voted Jonathan out at F7.

- He told Ozzy he'd always be honest with him but he never told him he was planning to vote him out before the merge if it hadn't been for the mutiny.

- After the merge, he told Becky and Sundra that they would vote Ozzy out as soon as he lost immunity. He told the audience that he would never vote Ozzy out before F4.

Let's not forget that the mutiny helped him a lot in avoiding the situations where you need to lie.

I have no problem with any of the lies on Survivor but I do have a problem with his integrity spin. Then again, if there is a place where lying is commonplace besides Survivor, it's in politics. He's right at home.


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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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10-25-09, 05:59 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
See. I told you Yul actually had to play the game. You just gave any number of examples of him playing it.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-25-09, 06:14 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
LAST EDITED ON 10-25-09 AT 06:16 PM (EST)


All the lies that mattered happened pre-merge. Even then, he was never in danger.

Post merge, his lie to Jonathan didn't matter. As soon as Jonathan saw the idol, Yul had the game in his back pocket because everyone played stupidly.

And he never got a chance to test his lie to Ozzy or Becky because Ozzy always had immunity.

Yul could never have been voted out. That's not Survivor. The fact that he was able to lie doesn't change that at all.


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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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10-25-09, 09:22 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
I agree with Yul. He played with integrity and played a great game.
Every "lie" michel alleged is either a distortion of the truth, spin, if you will, or an example of Yul changing his mind. Telling someone you are voting one way, and then voting another 3 shows later, is not lying. I do believe everyone has the right to change their mind. That is not a sign of lack of integrity.


>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-25-09, 10:43 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
"Telling someone you are voting one way, and then voting another 3 shows later"

That's not what I wrote: Yul used his Asian connection to get CB to vote out Cecilia in episode #3. In episode #5, he told CB again that he was voting with him against Jonathan but he had no intentions to vote out Jonathan. How did he not first use CB and then lie to him?

And what about telling Jonathan they were F4 together and IMMEDIATELY after saying to Becky and Candace that they will have to vote Jonathan out before Sundra? He lied to Jonathan (before Jonathan did anything to Yul in case you want to defend him again). No doubt about it whatsoever.

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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-09, 06:51 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
"All the lies that mattered happened pre-merge . ." Still shows he was playing the game.

He was never in danger because he was always in control. He was always in control because he was looked up to by fellow tribesmates who wanted to ally with him.

And I could sure see many players never thinking to use the idol to manipulate Jonathan or making a mess of it when they tried.

Both show how talented he was at controlling/manipulating people, and yes some of that happens because people see something in you that makes them willing to follow your lead. As with Brian, as with Tom.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-09, 08:23 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
You are missing my point. I had nothing against Yul personally (until his integrity spin) it's just that Cook Islands was a terrible season for game play. With an Idol that could be played after the votes were read, he never had to calculate if he needed to use it, never had to fear being backstabbed. With the surprise F3, he had a reserved seat to face the jury and, worse, his competitors could never organize a strategy to vote him out. Ozzy was waiting for the F3 challenge to beat him and take him out but that challenge never happened.

I'm not even talking about the supposed arrangements the producers made to see him get to the end. Yul's victory was reduced to winning the jury vote which, for a Harvard lawyer, wasn't much of a challenge.

About the idol, as soon as we heard about it in Exile island, we discussed at length how it could be used and many, many posters had figured out that strategy of blackmailing someone. There's nothing talented about what Yul did, just common sense. Hey, many Survivors never showed much common sense so maybe that's why Yul stands out but it takes more to impress me.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-09, 03:15 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
Just like the "loser gets Bruce so basically a one person advantage" idea that we never saw repeated after Exile Island, the HII being able to be played after the vote, we've never seen again since Cook Islands. So, obviously, MB also feels it was not such a good idea.
The game was played just as much in Cook Islands as it was every other season. There may have been less of the game that "michel wants to see," but let's qualify that.
We aren't seriously questioning Yul's integrity over the deception of Penner, right? Penner?? Even Penner would never question Yul's integrity over that. I could point out a lack of integrity shown in nearly every season, but I can't point out anything on Yul. The things michel listed, even if they are all true and not revisionist history, I have no problem with.


>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-09, 05:54 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
>Just like the "loser gets Bruce
>so basically a one person
>advantage" idea that we never
>saw repeated after Exile Island,
>the HII being able to
>be played after the vote,
>we've never seen again since
>Cook Islands. So, obviously, MB
>also feels it was not
>such a good idea.

Not that it matters much but Sylvia joining Ravu and Sugar joining NuFang after each of their first challenge loss were repeats of the EI twist. I like facts.

MB's bad ideas don't bother you? They sure bother me (and tons of others), especially when they decide the outcome.

>The game was played just as
>much in Cook Islands as
>it was every other season.
>There may have been less
>of the game that "michel
>wants to see,"

What is the definition of a "game"? A game is a set of rules that players follow. After the mutiny, the players simply didn't know the rules so what happened after that wasn't really a game.

No season had as many twists and such appearance of being fixed as CI. It was evident that MB panicked after talks of a Caucasian F4 surfaced.


>We aren't seriously questioning Yul's integrity
>over the deception of Penner, right? Penner??

In 2 instansces, yes. A lie is a lie.
The infraction doesn't depend on the identity of the victim. And, in the first instance, Penner had done nothing to Yul.


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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-09, 06:55 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
Doubt the game play was any worse than that in most other seasons. Several of the wrinkles added made the game more complex and difficult to play (socially and politically) than in the first few seasons (e.g. starting with tribes based on ethnicity and then merging them; permitting players to switch teams mid-game.) The idol was just another tool someone could use to their advantage. Yul did.

I'm trying to think of a season that featured really good gameplay? Seems like every season featured an abundance of foolish decisions by various players. The "four horsemen"; Coach/Tyson blowing up their own team; Brian's tribesmates blindly believing him; Greg etc. not trying to move out Tom before he got them; the Rotu Four thinking their four votes had the game in their pocket; Eric giving up his idol; the gymnastics instructor who idolized Ozzie (forget his name) not playing his soon after Ozzie was blindsided and Joel blowing up his own team. (Though I think Parvati's season was very difficult for anyone to strategically play and win.)

And Yul (and the other Aitus') certainly had to play Survivor in the immunity challenges after they were down to four players. That's a type of surviving too.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-09, 06:45 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
LAST EDITED ON 10-27-09 AT 06:51 PM (EST)

If you want me to admit that Yul was smarter than Jason, the 3 Horsemen and James who all made dumb moves with the idol, I have absolutely no problem with that but it doesnít prove much.

On the other hand, those players had to make a decision, Yul didnít even have to think about it. Survivor is about trusting your alliance so I would have liked to see what Yul would have done if he had to decide before the votes were read whether he trusted Jonathan enough to sit on the idol at F9. Maybe he would have been voted out with idol in pocket or maybe he loses it. At least, it would have made Yul sweat.

Also, Rotu's leader, John Carroll, wasnít the smartest player by any means but a 7 person alliance is probably the toughest to hold together. Yul again had it easy. He even said on screen: ďThereís no need for strategy anymore. All we can do is win challenges.Ē They won 2, one was pretty mickey-mouse and the other was tailor-made for Ozzy so Iím not sure Yul deserves that much credit.

Coach, Tyson, Chewing Gum and Gregg all paid for their stupidity. That's fair. Yul was rewarded for taking a limousine ride from F9 to the F3. That's less fair.
(Don't worry, I've critcized Brian in the past for also having it too easy but, at least, he had to win all those IC to be safe)

About Eric giving away his idol, that was the stupidest move ever and Yul offered to do the exact same thing. At F4, he offered his HII to Becky who was too loyal (dumb) to take it. She could have taken the idol and rallied everyone to boot out the jury threat. That's Survivor but Becky wasn't playing for the million.

Thatís another reason why Cook Island was weak in game play: Most of the players were more interested in representing their culture than playing the game. Casting made sure there werenít any Bens or Russells in that group. Production even tolerated a player visit to the other camp to promote fraternization. In S11, Danni told us that she had to negotiate hard to have a birthday party and that it was only allowed because they were close to the merge. Usually totally out of the question, an Aitu delegation was allowed to talk freely with Raro. Why? That season, having good relations was more important than having rivalries.

Anyway, those are all player moves. Itís the level of production interference that made CIís game play a joke. Like mentioned above, being able to hold the HII until the votes are read made it too powerful and that wasnít even the worst twist of the season. In fact CI had 3 of the 4 worst twists ever:

- The bottle twist: Do you realize that many people think Jeff had 2 different bottles, the one used depending on which team won? I donít know about that but Iím smart enough to realize that changing the value of a challenge win could only hurt the team that had the lead. If Aitu had lost, merging 7-3 or 7-2 doesnít change a thing, they were dead. But merging 6-4 or 5-4 is an enormous difference. Jeff revealing the twist after the challenge was over made it even more incredibly cheap. Up 7-4, Raro had no real motivation to win compared to Aitu. They couldnít even prepare the best team possible for it.

- Having the HII valid until F3: The possibility of having 2 players immune at F4 is simply laughable. It happened both times those rules were in effect. Both times we witnessed an asinine fire challenge instead of strategy.

- The Final 3: Telling the players about it at F4 removed any possibility of calculating moves, removed any game play.


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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-09, 09:39 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
The examples I gave were only a few examples. You could likely find similar examples from every season. And most, if not all, of the winners benefited from luck or foolish play.

Season 1 Richard was playing against a bunch of players who mostly had no strategy and was able to rely on a tribemates predictible voting strategy at a crucial moment.

Season 2 Tina was on what appeared to be the weaker tribe, with the distinct possibility of being pagonged off the show, until Mike fell in the fire and then Jeff and Co. forgot to count a previous vote against him. And then Colby decided to take the player who had a shot at beating him to the final rather than the person who didn't.

Season 3 Tuned out half-way through so no examples.

Season 4 Veceipia benefited from a plot to blindside the Rotu 4 that did not appear to be her idea. Also benefited from a purple rock taking out a potential threat to win.

Season 5 Brian's tribesmates came to him to be his ally. He didn't need great strategy; just needed to keep each ally believing they were part of his final II till he no longer needed them. (And to win some key challenges against a not particularly physically strong field.)

Amazon Jenna won challenges when needed, but was she carrying out a particularly strong strategy.

Sandra "I'll vote for anyone but me."

Tom whose tribe was so dominant he hardly faced a strategic threat except from within his own tribe. Wasn't it Ian's idea that swung the vote their way.

Etc., etc. up to Bob being chosen by Sugar as the most deserving winner and JT, who should have been voted out immediately by Coach and Co. being courted instead.

I would still argue that most of the winners showed more of an aptitude for making people want to work with them, be their ally, than for great strategy. Yul had that same quality of being someone around which a group could coalesce. And I don't buy that most of the players were there to "represent" their ethnicity not to win. Perhaps Becky was willing to stick with Yul because she knew she'd be gone quickly without his support.

Just out of curiosity, who do you think was the best strategist among players who have won and why?

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-09, 11:06 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
"Yul had that same quality of being someone around which a group could coalesce."

Yet, he was the only leader who saw two close allies mutiny against him!!
And the Becky example was at F4, the last vote. There was no more going anywhere if she took the HII.

All the examples you've shown were, again, player choices. I agree, many Survivors are dumb. My problem with Yul's win is PRODUCTION intervention.

Best strategists amongst winners? Aren't we going off topic?
Since you ask:

From what I know, the winners who showed the best strategy were: Hatch, Tina, Brian, Chris, Danni, Earl, Todd and Parvati.

- Saying Hatch invented alliances is such a clichť but what he really did was make people accept the notion of alliance and he made that alliance with people he could beat. That lesson is still often forgotten. (Hello Stephen)

- Tina is the only winner I know who managed to grab power from the leader of her tribe and keep that tribe together. She was also smart enough to know Colby hated Keith and would never pick him.

- Brian was smooth enough to make people like him, cold enough not to care.

- Chris was able to have alliances with everyone. He played the exact same game Brian did but he didn't have the luxury of numbers at merge.


- Danni was the only one in all of Guatemala to understand that Rafe was in charge, not Stephenie. She managed to derail him by making him feel he was a genius.

- Earl had an alliance with the 9 other shelter builders, with the 4 other African Americans and was the only one to see the value of Yau Man from the start.

- Todd was a Survivor whiz. He used the Art of War to keep everyone off balance.

- Parvati was able to flirt with the guys and create a women's alliance that stuck together.

Tina, Chris, Danni, Earl and Todd listened, understood and made friends with everyone. They were also quite good at playing leader or follower when needed.
Considering only strategy, I think Todd would be my #1.


However, the best strategist ever didn't win: Cirie is #1 hands down, no question about it and almost every survivor who has talked about her agree.

Rob C and Rafe deserve special mentions.


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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-09, 06:57 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
Was there another season when player's were allowed the opportunity to switch tribes? Candace didn't switch because of anything Yul did or didn't do. She switched because she wanted back with Adam. Not 100% sure why Jonathan switched. Thought he said it was an impulsive decision, not something thought out.

I'd argue that many of the examples you gave above of strategizing could be equally seen as social people being themselves. Some people make strong relationships with other people regardless of the situation in which you place them; others almost never do. The people who do have a better chance of succeeding at survivor than those who don't, no matter how much strategizing they do (see Jonathan.)

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-09, 06:20 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
>Was there another season when player's
>were allowed the opportunity to
>switch tribes?

Yes, there were 2: Thailand and Pearl Island. We never saw the PI offer of mutiny but Lill confirmed it happened.

>Candace didn't
>switch because of anything Yul
>did or didn't do.
>She switched because she wanted
>back with Adam.

I thought you were here in 2006.

Only in EPMB's fantasy world was Candace a dumb blonde. In fact she was the savviest player there, the only true fan. Her move had everything to do with Yul. He had just told her that Sundra was replacing Jonathan in their F4. She was convinced he would do the same to her because she was stronger than Sundra. She was also convinced that Yul planned on hooking up with Brad after the merge. She saw that what Yul said was what the alliance did. He listened to her opinion but Becky would always back his idea so that's what happened. Candace knew she couldn't win by just tagging along behind Yul.

Candice had talked to Parvati during the episode #4 challenge. That challenge had both girls tied to the mast of a ship far away from everyone. It was a combination bondage, threesome fantasy for many viewers but, for Candace, it was an opportunity to learn that Parvati, Adam and Nathan were doing fine in Raro. Later, she managed to get Nate kidnapped and she found out that Adam was the leader. She knew that strategy wasn't Adam strongest quality so she could have more say in Raro.

>I'd argue that many of the
>examples you gave above of
>strategizing could be equally seen
>as social people being themselves.
> Some people make strong
>relationships with other people regardless
>of the situation in which
>you place them; others almost
>never do.

That isn't an argument because I don't know which one you are refering to and I therefore cannot refute it. All I can say is that social play IS strategy.

Anyway, if you want to discuss it, you should create a thread to talk about strategy. This has nothing to do with the story in the Post.


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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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10-31-09, 10:06 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
"Candace knew she couldn't win by just tagging along behind Yul."

True enough. Aitu was Yul's tribe and both Candace (and likely figure Jonathan) mutinied because they knew they could never beat him. (Trouble with posting while still have asleep.)
Yet another example of how strong a player Yul was.

I would say social play is the BEST strategy. Take your last winner: JT.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-31-09, 12:21 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
Yet, without all the twists that Burnett pulled out of his a$$, Yul never wins. Yul is an impressive man but he didn't play Survivor.

About the mutiny, he was lucky that an offer was even made. Most posters back then agreed that a flip after the merge would have been devastating.

Yul never saw that Candace wasn't on board. Knowing the people around you is a pretty important skill, the reason I put Cirie as #1 strategist. Yul never even imagined someone could betray him. Remember when he openly counted his jury votes in front of Becky who did NOTHING about it, not even take his HII away. Luckily for Yul, Becky and Sundra weren't there to play the game and Burnett wasn't about to let a game happen anyway.

Did you know that Sundra was supposed to join Candace in their mutiny but simply froze? The plan was to have a Nate-Adam-Parvati-Candace-Sundra F5.

And, to clear it up, Jonathan flipped for 2 reasons: He considered Candace (!!) not Yul as his closest ally and he thought Adam had the HII.

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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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10-31-09, 01:09 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
Here's my two cents on it:

Yul did play Survivor, even though there were others on Aitu (Candice and Jonathan) who did as well. You're right in saying that Yul never saw that Candice wasn't on board -- at least he didn't totally see it, but Candice was also too closely aligned with her tribemates on Raro. She allowed her emotions to control her and that's why she mutinied. And by flipping at the time that she did, she plotted and schemed too much and backstabbed before she had to. Jonathan did a similar thing, although he was already seen as untrustworthy then.

You also don't give Yul enough credit for his making his Aitu 4 alliance work. He likes to lead by consensus, and therefore he took all of the suggestions of the Aitu 4 into consideration. He also made sure they were comfortable. You could say that he subtly manipulated things so that nobody else in the Aitu 4 wouldn't go against him. The key is subtletly. He tried to help himself out without making it look like he was helping himself out. He was the one who saw that Ozzy had formed the beginnings of an alliance with Nate and that's why Nate left when he did. And although the decision to get rid of Jonathan was a group decision -- ask Ozzy & Yul himself -- when Adam said that if Yul got rid of Jonathan before Parvati & Adam himself that Adam would give Yul a vote at the final Tribal Council, Yul went for it. That's more plotting & scheming than you think!

Sure, there was luck involved and the twists helped Yul in his path to the million dollars. But remember what Alex said in Estee's Survivor fanfic at herfinal Tribal Council: everyone plays the game at one specific point in time. They can only play the game as it happens in front of them. Look at Cirie -- she knew for the most part what was happening around her and was probably the smartest player in Micronesia but twists beyond her control helped knock her out.

That's the only point I'll add to your critique of Yul. Yeah, Yul had luck go his way at certain key points, but he was strategic enough to make the most of the good luck and mimimize the bad luck. That's what any winner must do.


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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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10-31-09, 05:18 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
LAST EDITED ON 10-31-09 AT 05:24 PM (EST)

No, they won because they won immunity challenges when they had to and Yul used the idol to get Jonathan to flip. And he then won a vote against Ozzie at final TC. Some of the jurors though Yul deserved to win and voted for him. If Adam voted as payback for Jonathan going first, then it was a smart move by Yul to agree to vote out Jonathan first.

The producers can't guarantee outcomes.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-09, 02:32 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
>The producers can't guarantee outcomes.

Have you met Stacey Stillman?


In early 2001, she sued CBS claiming Mark Burnett arranged her exit and orchestrated the show's outcome. It was stated in a 14-page lawsuit, filed February 5, 2001, that two of her fellow tribemates, Dirk Been and Sean Kenniff, were persuaded to change their vote from 72-year-old Rudy Boesch to her...Dirk Been supported her allegations.

The case was settled out of court.

Also, have you ever watched Big Brother?

The producers can certainly tip the field in one direction. In a season where Survivor had a lot to lose, where there were calls to boycott their sponsors, all Jeff could say was watch and see how it turned out. It turned out that one twist followed the other until we had an acceptable result.

You are still forgetting that my reason for saying Yul did not play Survivor was because he never attended a tribal council where he could have been voted out.

In the premiere of the series, Jeff explained that "To win, you must survive the island, SURVIVE THE VOTE, and survive each other."

Yul was exempt from filling the most important condition. Why? Not because of an immunity streak, just because he was sent to exile island at the right time to find the most powerful idol ever.

Even when Adam proposed a way to get rid of the idol by asking Ozzy and Sundra to vote with him against Yul, Ozzy and Sundra stupidly declined.

BTW, Adam said that Ozzy refusing to consider getting rid of the idol counted as much if not more in his final vote than Yul's promise of getting rid of Jonathan.

And, because of a conflict with Nate, Jonathan insisted he'd be the first one voted out. That had more to do with the vote decision than Ozzy's talk with Nate.

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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-09, 07:56 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
I'd tend to say he played it so well he was never in danger. If his allies didn't always make smart decisions, so what, that's true of every winner.

But . . I give. You're right of course. It was all a plot by the producers who knew in advance that one day Yul would become a prominent politician and wanted to get on his good side. Makes perfect sense to me.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-09, 10:54 AM (EST)
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25. "RE: News from the Wash Post on Yul with a mention on Becky"
LAST EDITED ON 11-01-09 AT 11:01 AM (EST)

Please don't put words in my mouth.

What I said was that Yul never had to worry about being eliminated, which is a fact while Burnett wanted to fix his horrible mistake of a season and the future of his series.

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