The Amazing Race   American Idol   The Apprentice   The Bachelor   The Bachelorette   Big Brother   The Biggest Loser
Dancing with the Stars   So You Think You Can Dance   Survivor   Top Model   The Voice   The X Factor       Reality TV World
   
Reality TV World Message Board Forums
PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats, but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are encouraged to read the complete guidelines. As entertainment critic Roger Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
"The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
 
Previous Topic | Next Topic 
Conferences Survivor Fanatic Forum (Protected)
Original message

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-18-09, 06:07 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
"The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Rank this season's contestants on a 1-10 scale in the following categories:

Physical includes: performance in activity-based challenges (and public perception as a challenge threat), the amount of gruntwork contributed to the tribe, raw strength and endurance.

Mental incorporates: understanding of both the game's dynamics and the players in it, logic-based plays, performance in mental-based challenges, innovation, knowledge of local environment and hazards, idol usage (where applicable), raw intelligence and perception.

Social can factor in: the ability to construct and maintain alliances, emotion-based plays, food providing (more of a social play than anything else), relationships with other players, raw charisma and presence.


Carolina Eastwood
Candace Smith
Jerry Sims
Sandy Burgin
Spencer Duhm
Sydney Wheeler
Joe Dowdle
Brendan Synnott
Tyson Apostol
Sierra Reed
Debra Beebe
Benjamin Wade
Tamara Johnson-George
Erinn Lobdell
Stephen Fishbach
James Thomas, Jr.

If you want to see how people have ranked prior winners, the original PMS thread is at http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID4/4755.shtml

Because now, it's traditional.

  Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins Estee 05-18-09 1
   RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins iltarion 05-18-09 2
       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins Estee 05-18-09 4
           RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins iltarion 05-19-09 8
               RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins TxMom2011 05-19-09 15
                   RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins iltarion 05-20-09 18
   RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins Aruba 05-22-09 24
       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins Estee 05-22-09 25
           RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins Aruba 05-23-09 28
               RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins sol 05-27-09 35
                   RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins PsychoKitty 05-30-09 43
       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins iltarion 05-22-09 26
           RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins Aruba 05-23-09 29
               RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins iltarion 05-26-09 33
                   RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins michel 05-26-09 34
                       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins iltarion 05-27-09 36
                           RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins michel 05-27-09 37
                               RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins sol 05-27-09 38
                                   RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins michel 05-27-09 41
                                       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins sol 05-28-09 42
                           Default. Estee 05-27-09 39
                               RE: Default. iltarion 05-27-09 40
 RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins ohmyheck 05-18-09 3
   RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins Estee 05-18-09 5
       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins MissMyth 05-18-09 6
       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins iltarion 05-19-09 10
       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins Colonel Zoidberg 05-23-09 31
           RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins garcor 05-24-09 32
 RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins michel 05-18-09 7
   RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins iltarion 05-19-09 9
   RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins Estee 05-19-09 11
       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins garcor 05-19-09 12
       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins michel 05-19-09 13
           RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins iltarion 05-19-09 14
               RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins garcor 05-19-09 16
                   RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins iltarion 05-20-09 17
                       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins garcor 05-20-09 19
                           RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins iltarion 05-21-09 21
                               RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins garcor 05-21-09 22
                       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins michel 05-20-09 20
                           RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins PsychoKitty 05-30-09 44
 RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins Aruba 05-21-09 23
   RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins iltarion 05-22-09 27
       RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins Aruba 05-23-09 30

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Messages in this topic

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-18-09, 07:27 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
1. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
LAST EDITED ON 05-18-09 AT 06:23 PM (EST)

As always, these are really subjective.

Carolina Eastwood: 4-3-3. Ohmigawd, shut up. This boot actually wound up being the harbinger for the rest of the season: attention please, you are entering the single worst Social group we've ever seen, please try to keep your feet out of the waist-deep muck. Managed to talk herself out of the game, off the continent, and right into obscurity, where she shall reside forevermore or until VH1 gets ultra-desperate for a new Surreal Life cast, whichever comes first.

Candace Smith: 5-4-4. One of those short sample games: we can presume she had some talent, some intelligence, and some social skill -- for something -- somewhere -- actually, based on that sample, I may be seriously overestimating all of this... Offended Benji to the point of fury by not declaring him the Sexiest Man Alive and allowing him to have his way with her on camera with DVD commentary track, and that's how you leave second. Given more time, would have probably wound up hating absolutely everyone and spending 90% of her time in confessional complaining about it. A likely Corinne-in-waiting, which turned her ouster into an early mercy boot -- for us.

Jerry Sims: 7-5-6. Factor out the medical issues and he had a chance to turn into a late-stage jury threat who would have been removed to keep him from walking away with the vote -- although in this slightly weird season, he might have been preserved to stand against JT's challenge force. Seemed like a decent man, which doesn't necessarily make him into a decent player. Had enough support from his tribe to turn this into a vote medivac.

Sandy Burgin: 3-3-3. Insanity is not a social play. Was skipping along a very clear trail known as the Jan Memorial Graveyard Walk, and we should just be glad it didn't let her skip all the way to Final 3. Voting her out first was the smartest move her tribe could have made: pity it didn't work. Gloriously stupid, majestically ignorant, her only perceptive challenge skill was getting someone else's swimsuit off, and did not understand the meaning of the word 'pace'. In any real survival situation, would have been eaten by vultures, who then would have been ill all over the highlands. A waste of a contestant slot.

Spencer Duhm: 6-5-5. Allowed his secret to isolate him from his tribe, which may have gradually let into the factors that removed him from the game. Typical uberfan as the casting department sees them, which means he was Cast To Lose and provide just one more raised middle finger in our direction after the giant one that was all of Micronesia. Knew how to play as long as he wasn't actually doing it. Could have gradually settled in and gone for the grand vizier position, but didn't get started early, didn't really scramble late and in the end, was just happy to have been there. Probably would have made a great jury member: just didn't seem to care if he got that far.

Sydney Wheeler: 5-5-5. Raise your hand if you remembered she existed prior to glimpsing her during the Reunion. *counts* Liars. Did the absolute minimum needed to register on the vote radar: the camera barely figured out she existed until just before the very last moment, and her tribe barely caught up in time. Could easily have been labeled 'Generiboot' and no one would have known the difference.

Joe Dowdle: 7-3-6. Captain America fallen on the courthouse steps, assassinated by his own idiocy. 'Hey guys, my knee just developed a mouth and it's trying to eat my shorts. Isn't that cool?' There are reasons not to yell for Medical (with 'I am totally lying about my injury and don't want to get caught' being high on the list), but he wasn't in possession of one. All he had in hand (and in leg) was pus, and given the way he played, you could make a few arguments on the contents of his skull. One of the ousters who wound up getting played by himself, which allowed him to beat everyone else to it.


Brendan Synnott: 7-7-7. A decent threat on all levels who decided his game would be getting someone else to the end -- y'know, if he'd just explained it that way in public, he might have lasted a while... Was really just there for the experience, and got one: the bonus prize was having his chosen one take the jury vote. Was seen as the first major threat in the merge group by the resident egomaniac, which just tells you how much of a handle that one had on the game. Nice guy, but there's a major question mark over whether he ever should have been there in the first place.


Tyson Apostol: 6-7-3. And if he'd stayed in any longer, his Social might have made it all the way down to 1. (He started on Day One as a near-8, then started digging.) Practiced alienation of others as a religious experience and made sure to enter a fit of ecstasy twelve times a day. Thought of himself as the first 10-10-10 to hit the game, but he's since changed his mind: now he's self-ranking at a triple-eleven. Took his ouster well because it flattered his ego: of course they got rid of me, I'm the most dangerous player ever! Accepted a role as assistant to a lunatic. If you allowed yourself to be surrounded and trapped by idiots, how smart are you?

Sierra Reed: 6-6-5. Why was she hated so much? From Benji, it's because she didn't accept his advances and that's all he ever needs: from the others, it's because they were indulging the insane and that meant she became arguably the strangest social outcast ever seen within the game: sorry about our loathing you, but that's what the cult leader wants. Never stopped trying as a player, just could never find anyone willing to both listen to her and act on what she was saying. Had the dynamics and liars in her tribe pinned down fairly well, but couldn't do anything about it. Fought back from the first boot position to make the jury: not a small achievement. Despised Benji before anyone else and must be honored for that.

Debra Beebe: 4-4-3. A screaming banshee in waiting who happily partnered herself up with a moron. Looked down on everyone because as far as she was concerned, she was in charge of a school full of bed-wetters right up until the moment she wasn't. A conniving, lying weak Tina type with the math talents of Lisi and the social skills of an incontinent cobra. Was about five seconds from invoking her religion in a fit of superiority -- but her partner beat her to it. Edited her own memory to make herself into the saint and everyone who disagreed into a sinner. Should not be in charge of crushed tin cans: get her away from the children before it's too late.


Benjamin Wade: 2-1-5. The body, it does nothing! The brain, it makes up stories about all the amazing things the body has done and doesn't read how other people are reacting to them! Was able to keep people entertained for a while, mostly for lack of any other options, but couldn't keep the illusion up through the end. (Give him forty-two days and his Social would have been down to a 3.) Thought he was running the tribe, the game, the world, and couldn't operate a door clearly marked 'push'. Had just enough physical strength to tilt a table. Would have been dominated, tossed over, and killed by a skink. Did not understand the game, the people in it, the whole inhale/exhale debate, why women ran from him in droves, or how he was not, in fact, a deity incarnate. Would have been anyone's ideal F2 partner and could have lost 7-0 to Neleh. Lied about everything in existence, refused to take a lie detector test, then lied about having taken one. And will probably be back for the next All-Stars unless someone stops him first. (Maybe we can dare him to lift a napkin and watch as the tremendous weight of the paper slices his hand off.) Meet the new casting model for reality television. Ready to switch to C-SPAN yet?

Tamara Johnson-George: 5-4-8. Was liked enough to make up for having money, her husband having money, possessing a degree of fame, and so on across the board -- along with making alliances all over the place, all of which indicates a very good Social rating. However, when it came to doing anything with those alliances, was your basic mental midget who, much to her great fortune, was in a cast composed of other mental midgets: lucky her! Could stay in challenges and contributed to group efforts, but never showed any signs of becoming a factor to be reckoned with. Never really grasped that the game meant eventually someone was going to try and get rid of you, too. Sort of an interesting presence and yet will be completely forgotten three seasons from now.

Erinn Lobdell: 4-7-4. This year's Nearly Girl: nearly did so poorly in the challenges as to take herself out during the tribal stage, was nearly doomed within her own group until she managed to make a flip pay off, nearly out at F4 before she talked the others into removing the competition, and then nearly caught that ball. But for the biggest 'nearly' in the group, nearly knew when to stop talking -- and didn't. Had to get into a new group because she managed to completely work her way out of her own. Gets a bonus point for spotting Benji's idiocy early, but didn't know enough to play along with it. About as charming a presence as a swaying watch which bashes you in the temple on purpose -- and would have beaten Stephen anyway.

Stephen Fishbach: 4-8-4. Had a good grasp of the game, then passed it off to someone else and let them gain all the benefit from it. Couldn't talk to save his life, his million dollars, or a single ballot with his name written down on it. Maintained a partnership throughout that ultimately paid off for one participant: a pretty good mental play, but -- he wasn't the one it paid off for. Found the cracks in a dominant opposing tribe and managed to assemble a plan which allowed the minority to take control: has to be given credit for that and lots of it -- but when he had the chance to sit in front of the jury and bask in the glory without shame, couldn't go with 'I beat you all and you have to admit it': instead, favored the much simpler method of swallowing his own tongue. About as much a wizard as his partner was a warrior, which might explain that final fatal misfire.

James Thomas, Jr.: 8-5-8. Had one major skill in the game: got people to like him. They liked him so much, they were willing to carry him deep into the game. They were so fond of him, they didn't realize he was a challenge threat until it was too late -- and by then, the horrifying realization that he was too well-liked to lose had no consequence because no one left was capable of taking a necklace. Was part of 'two minds working as one', which wound up being an improvement over the people who tried it as a foursome -- but how much did he really contribute to that mental unity? We may never know, and the jury really didn't care. Would have beaten anyone in the F4, F5, F6... Living proof that 'jury threat' is a very real worry in the game, but no one worried about it until they couldn't do anything to stop it. Unlike the last unanimous winner, had more than one player in his pool to go against -- but none of them had the lone skill they needed to defeat him: the ability to make him take some of the blame. Not the worst possible winner in the cast by any means -- but it was a really lousy cast.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-18-09, 11:50 AM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
2. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
LAST EDITED ON 05-18-09 AT 12:04 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 05-18-09 AT 11:52AM (EST)

The comment regarding overestimation was the truest one made. The exaggeration exhibited is so off the charts it makes Star Trek seem feasible by comparison. Some of it is pretty hilarious though.
Actually, a pretty good cast, a group of Rhodes scholars, Olympic athletes and cults of personality compared to a season like Fiji.

Carolina - 3-3-2 Who? I thought there was an imposter at the reunion. Turns out it was just Carolina. Obviously your social game is bunk if you are the first to go.
Candice- 5-5-1 Even a greater social disaster since she had the strength and intelligence necessary to advance, but her tribe still preferred to keep a persona non grata like Sierra instead of her. Any social skill whatsoever and she could have rallied Brendan, Sierra, and Erinn together and changed the sad fate of Timbura. Instead, having a man in her tribe with a greater ego than her own frustrated her to the exclusion of everything else. I'm sure to a woman who is used to men laying down before her so she can walk over their backs a man like Coach was like Kryptonite to Superwoman. Her losing that battle was the beginning of the end for Timbura.
Jerry- 4-4-6 A well-liked enough guy who could have settled into the fatherly role and perhaps brought some sanity to TImbura if not for a medi-vote.
Sandy - 3-3-2 All around debacle. I agree whole-heartedly with Estee here- a waste of a cast spot. Certainly there are better candidates to fill the "older lady" quota?
Spencer- 4-3-4 A somewhat likable guy who apparently won in his mind once he was casted. He had no game to speak of after that. Got the infamous treatment of the camera only finding him when it was time to go.
Sydney- 5-4-5 Did herself proud in comparison to most models to have played including the self-proclaimed couple in this cast. Made fire, competed hard in the challenges, and never complained about the conditions. Fell victim to Jalopal's pre-merge ineptness and not being in Stephen's plans. If Stephen really was Rob C, she would have been. A somewhat stunning woman when done up, her looks didn't hold up so well in the el natural.
Joe- 5-4-4 Only thing he seemed to bring to the game was an appreciation of Sydney. Underperformed in challenges and got boxed out of his alliance with JT by someone as unlikely as Stephen.
Brendan- 8-5-6 An athletic, intelligent and well-liked guy who really was the biggest threat post merge, thus the prototypical first post merge boot. His Colbyesque, enjoy the experience, approach probably dissuaded him from playing a hardcore strategic game. With a conflict with Coach being inevitable, he should have organized the Hunter boot early on and consolidated the leadership of the tribe. He probably focused too much on postmerge considerations too early in the game: classic error. Ultimately fell victim to being a threat, having the idol, and his playing both sides causing no one to trust him.
Tyson- 8-4-7 Shared Coach's delusion of having the game in the bag when it was never close to that. Hitching himself to Coach had some merit considering he easily wins a vote against him, but again, don't plan for the end of the game before getting there. Apparently wasted all of his cognizant energy on arguably the greatest confessionals from one player ever because he had no strategic game to speak of outside of riding Coach's coattails. Was the clown of Timbura and then pretty universally liked post merge as well. So, his social game wasn't the problem. Could have easily pulled Erinn and Sierra into the fold by offering Coach's head on a platter, but never made the extra alliance he needed for protection.
Sierra- 3-4-1 Was sickly and inept through the first couple weeks and never really recovered from the impression that gave her tribemates. Social game was so terrible she made Coach and Randy seem like inspirational leaders in comparison. Offer all the ambiguous excuses you like, ultimately she has to take the blame for being universally discounted by everyone in the game except Brendan. In his only derogatory words of the season, even JT called Sierra a "lying byotch" after only a couple days of exposure to her. Got a sympathetic edit at the end and racked up some sympathy by viewers and posters alike, but the truest waste of a cast member was this one. I don't think it ever has been so obvious from Day 1 that someone didn't belong out there. Ironically, proclaimed the whole ordeal made her stronger while breaking down during the Reunion. Maybe it will strengthen her in retrospect, but that time has not yet come.
Debbie- 4-5-4 Her and Jerry both appeared to hitch their wagon to Coach early on, maybe due to age more than anything else. She kept her head in the game most the way through, but like Tyson, she failed to make the extra alliance necessary to advance to the end. She only attempted that very thing when it was too late and hastened her exit.
Coach- 4-5-4 Coach is really a hard grade for those trying to be fair. I basically just split the difference. Physically, he underachieved all season, never really being any kind of physical force. That is the easy one. Mentally or strategically, he made many mistakes, but he always had a plan and stuck with it, coming within 1 vote of making the F4. The strategy of the strong sticking with the strong is an idea I've been calling for for years now. It is a question whether anyone will actually be able to pull it off and whether Coach really deserved to be lumped into the strong in the first place, but it is a great way for the strong to protect themselves. Socially, people could say he was terrible since his personality pretty much precluded any chance of him actually winning, but on the otherhand, he made the alliance that ruled Timbura until merge. And he was the one that recruited JT and thus Stephen into the alliance post merge, which momentarily put him and Tyson into power. Regardless of how the editing made him appear, he was tolerable enough to stick around when Tyson, Sierra, and Debbie were booted. Everyone wants to call him a liar while having no evidence that he is indeed lying. I don't doubt he passed the lying test with flying colors. The test generally doesn't work on those who truly believe they are telling the truth. Coach's sociopathic tendencies actually make him very dangerous in this game, (see Brian), but he lacks the charming duplicity of most sociopaths, which is required to win this game.
Taj- 4-5-6 Was a physical factor premerge but not enough to help her tribe win. No factor postmerge. Most her strategic game happened early and vanished late. Socially she was probably the 2nd most liked person after JT.
Erinn- 3-6-4 Physically no factor though her puzzle solving did help Timbura premerge. No strategic game premerge that we were shown, but she arguably played the smartest game down the stretch. Somehow helped convince the guys that Taj was a bigger threat in the end and made a good case to JT. Would have gotten to the Finals if she could have won a single IC down the stretch. Ultimately defeated by JT's IC run and Stephen and JT's friendship. Would have gotten more votes than Stephen, as miraculous as that is. Socially, she aligned with Candice, who got booted, then with Joe, who got medivaced, then to no one, and finally to JT, her first good play in the game. Gets too much credit for the move considering she was never really part of the Timbura alliance anyway. Timbura deserves more blame than she deserves credit. Good play the last couple episodes though. Was at a disadvantage in the crucial FIC due to wearing glasses and having the smallest hands.
Stephen- 3-8-7 Physically had nothing though he worked hard and did use his brain to win one IC. Strategically he made most the right moves that kept him at the center of the game, much like Rob C and Parvati before him. He had a good shot to win if not for JT's IC run at the end. Socially, as already mentioned, he was the apex of most the alliances and was generally liked by all. I thought he had a good TC, putting up the fight that he needed to, even making the brave play for Taj's vote that might have backfired, but Debbie's question to him hurt, no matter what answer he gave, and I would submit that no Survivor winner could have beaten JT in a vote. I thought the decision to boot Taj strategically made no sense, but then Erinn's poor performance in the challenge might have proven me wrong. Ultimately, JT might have beaten him simply because his hands are bigger.
JT- 7-6-10 He was a near dominant physical player in the beginning, but his tribe ended up in the minority. He didn't start winning ICs until the best competition was gone, but he did win the 3 most important ICs in the game. Stereotypical thinking will not allow him to get the credit for his brain he deserves. He made very few mental mistakes. He allowed Stephen to call the shots, but deferring to someone more intelligent is a smart move itself. Socially, a case could be made that he was the best social player ever in the game. He had alliances with virtually everyone in the game at some point and was the first player I've ever heard people say they wanted to take to the finals just because they liked him so much. I predicted the final challenge would be a concentration challenge, and as soon as I saw it, I told my wife JT had the advantage because the other two players wore glasses. There is a reason why I don't bowl or shoot pool with my glasses on; it is difficult if you have to look up and down or side to side. Shows once again how crucial being able to win ICs is to this game. JT never wins without it. Though I think the cast was low on strong strategical players, there was a great mix of strong physical players, social players, and social retards. JT is in the upper tier of winners by winning in such dominant fashion against this cast. Good for him.

>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-18-09, 01:53 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
4. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
They're supposed to be subjective. And of course we're going to disagree on Benji: we've been silently disagreeing on Benji for the whole season. (It's never been a direct conflict between us in a thread.) We have more views in common here than we do differences: we just may look at the numbers differently. I think I see it as more of a curve than a straight arithmetic progression: you have to be beyond all degrees of pale to rank a 10 and fall into the abyss for a 1. Which really says something about my views on Benji...

As for JT being able to beat any previous winner in the social game: a F3 of him, Tom, and your choice of Yul or Ethan would make for a really interesting jury session.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-19-09, 01:51 AM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
8. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
The first truth of these boards is that opinions vary.
I enjoyed your list.
I only say that a case could be made that JT is the best social player and an unbeatable opponent at FTC. It is a completely hypothetical question that could never be answered with certainty. The FTC and what happens there is the result of the sum of events it took to get there. Without those events, the conclusion of said FTC is unknowable. I would hypothesize that JT is the perfect storm of need, respectability, and likability. It is nearly impossible to have a better combination.

>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

TxMom2011 188 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"

05-19-09, 02:54 PM (EST)
Click to EMail TxMom2011 Click to send private message to TxMom2011 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
15. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
doood... hit the return key once in awhile ;)
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-20-09, 02:24 PM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
18. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
I would hit return more often, if I knew where it was.

>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-22-09, 07:31 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Aruba Click to send private message to Aruba Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
24. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"

>Erinn Lobdell: 4-7-4.

>-- and would have beaten
>Stephen anyway.


You really think Erinn would have beaten Stephen in a F2???

I'm not saying Tyson, Sierra, Brendan, and Coach were dead set on crowning Stephen the Ultimate Survivor, but I don't see any of those four voting for Erinn.

We know Taj would have taken a page out of Iltarion's "Ancient History" (Sorry Pal, but had to get that jab in ) and casted her "sour grapes" vote. I'm figuring Debbie would have probably leaned toward an Erinn vote also.

JT would have been a tough call. Although "sour grapes" is commonplace on the Jury, not everyone thinks that way, and JT may be one of the select few who could actually put that sore loser mentality behind him...although he would be a tough call.

So I'm thinking a 4-3 or perhaps 5-2 Stephen win if he brought Erinn to the F2.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-22-09, 07:40 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
25. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
I just thought that given his Amanda-class performance, the entire remainder of the F4 would have beaten Stephen. I had absolute confidence in his ability to talk the jury out of anything.

(Censored), Benji vs. Stephen at least gets a couple of votes for Benji.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-23-09, 06:48 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Aruba Click to send private message to Aruba Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
28. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
>I just thought that given his
>Amanda-class performance, the entire remainder
>of the F4 would have
>beaten Stephen.

As a Stephen fan all season I was disappointed in his FTC performance as well, but I couldn't come close to comparing it to Amanda.

Unlike "Doe-Eyes" whose performance snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, Stephen had NO shot at beating JT regardless of how he performed.

It's always been my belief that an overwhelming number of jury members know who they are voting for even BEFORE they walk into FTC. Many have already established majority voting blocs back at the Ponderosa which already seals the deal before any of the F2 players even open their mouths. And please spare me the "Debbies" of the world who claim they don't know who they are voting for when in reality they are full of doggie do-do.

In addition to JT, Stephen would not have beaten Taj in the Finals because of her likability even if Stephen gave a stellar performance at FTC.

The opposite was the case with Erinn. Too many jury members either did not like Erinn or appropriately felt she had no reason to be in the Finals so Stephen would have won by default even if he did deliver an "Amanda-like" performance.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

sol 219 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"

05-27-09, 00:50 AM (EST)
Click to EMail sol Click to send private message to sol Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
35. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
One of the things I noticed at this seasons FTC, Jiffy said that jurors would get their FIRST chance to grill the F2. And I believe I read somewhere that Stephen said the grilling went on for hours - 5? With that amount of grilling a finalist that wasn't well liked - and Stephen wasn't as well liked as JT - could become very exhausted and frustrated, and say something that that would paint him in a negative way. Also, from that much footage the producers would be able to choose whatever kind of edit they wanted.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PsychoKitty 678 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"

05-30-09, 08:14 PM (EST)
Click to EMail PsychoKitty Click to send private message to PsychoKitty Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
43. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
That's some really interesting info Sol! It would explain Stephen's descent into such uncontrolled emotion and reactions - we hadn't seen that side of him in the rest of the game - it's like his building paranoia and fatigue got the best of him. He should have taken credit for all of his moves, but he didn't. So your info redeems his FTC performance somewhat (including the point about the edits.)

Thanks!

Not that I have an opinion one way or another ;)
Signature by tribephyl

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-22-09, 12:17 PM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
JT and Stephen had reasons to believe Erinn would be easy to beat. JT said afterwards that Brendan and Debbie both couldn't stand Erinn. We know Coach and Tyson weren't big fans either. And there is no way JT would have voted for anyone but Stephen. Those guys are bonafide pals. The vote goes 5-2 for Stephen against Erinn, and that is assuming Taj stays bitter and Sierra's bought vote.

>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-23-09, 06:54 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Aruba Click to send private message to Aruba Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
29. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"

>that is assuming Taj stays bitter...

No need to assume. In a post-game interview Taj was asked if having time to "cool off" had JT or Stephen sat next to Erinn in the Finals would her vote STILL go to Erinn?

Her answer was Absolutely.

Once again...HISTORY repeats itself. HaHaHa!

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-26-09, 01:39 PM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
33. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
It is unfortunate to see Taj so readily join the legions of hypocrites before her. Did she plan on taking JT to the Finals? No, right? She would have taken Stephen or Erin herself. Therefore, no reason to be bitter towards JT for doing only what she would have done herself, if she had the chance.


>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-26-09, 07:59 PM (EST)
Click to EMail michel Click to send private message to michel Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
34. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
But Taj was taking JT and Stephen to the F3 as the Jalapao had promised. She hated the liars which reminds me of certain posters!

And, BTW, a juror is always right because it's their conscience that guides them. A F2 players needs to consider that.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-27-09, 02:14 AM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
36. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Haha... I think Hitler once said he was guided by his conscience.
Didn't Taj and Stephen already pretty much agree to getting rid of JT at F4 if he lost the IC? I am pretty sure they discussed it. Also, maybe JT and Stephen broke a promise to Taj, but lying and breaking a promise are two different things. Again, you have to know the truth in order to lie. Therefore, promising someone F3, and then 20 days later deciding that is no longer in your best interest is not lying. If JT and Stephen told Taj they were voting for Erinn before TC, then yeah, they lied. Still, no worse than Taj would have told JT if he didn't win immunity, I'm sure.


>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-27-09, 09:08 AM (EST)
Click to EMail michel Click to send private message to michel Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
37. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Keeping things in perspective, they're considering which player should win the game, not genocide. Do you think someone voting against your own personal favorite is criminal? Yes, I seem to remember that you still think Morono was robbed!

JT and Stephen reassured Taj that they were voting against Erinn just before TC. Taj was unnecessarily hurt and those feelings are a legitimate reason to vote.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

sol 219 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"

05-27-09, 12:01 PM (EST)
Click to EMail sol Click to send private message to sol Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
38. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
There's an old Irish saying ... Is this a private fight, or can anyone join in?

Michel you say that the jurors vote according to their conscience, and then you say that Taj was unnecessarily hurt and that was a legitimate reason to vote the way she did.

My question is ... does being hurt equate to conscience? To me, conscience is based on the morals by which we live; being honest and being loving, etc. are morals by which we live. On the other hand, being revengeful is more of an emotional state.

Perhaps it's only our interpretation of conscience, but I see jurors voting according to their mental and emotional state rather than their conscience. It is, after all, a game ... albeit for a million bucks (less tax). If they were using their conscience they wouldn't even be in a game that ultimately was about deceiving, lying and back-stabbing.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-27-09, 08:26 PM (EST)
Click to EMail michel Click to send private message to michel Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
41. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
LAST EDITED ON 05-27-09 AT 08:30 PM (EST)

Public forum, public discussion, so join in!

I think it's our definition of conscience that is the difference. What I meant is that a juror is entirely free of voting for whoever he/she wants and base their vote on any criteria they choose, be it emotions, morals, reason, etc... They don't have to answer to anyone about it.

Maybe it's how you react to being hurt that involves your conscience. Should that feeling cost someone a vote? Only the voter can answer that question.

A juror is always right. It's not the juror's fault that he or she feels they have to vote against someone, it's the player's fault for not considering how their actions affected the voter.


  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

sol 219 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"

05-28-09, 08:24 PM (EST)
Click to EMail sol Click to send private message to sol Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
42. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
I think it's our definition of conscience that is the difference. What I meant is that a juror is entirely free of voting for whoever he/she wants and base their vote on any criteria they choose, be it emotions, morals, reason, etc... They don't have to answer to anyone about it.

Absolutely, we are in total agreement there. There is a consequence for everything we think and do. I may be angry at an outcome, but my anger only hurts me; if I decide to act on that anger in a violent way there is a consequence to my actions. It's a level of immaturity when one becomes bitter and allows an outcome to which one has little or no control over to consume ones life.

Robfather was nasty in A$$, and his actions cost him in the end - his consequence; but Lex came off looking pretty foolish for his bitterness - his consequence.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-27-09, 12:19 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
39. "Default."
Haha... I think Hitler once said he was guided by his conscience.

Under established Internet rules, Iltarion has automatically lost the thread.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-27-09, 01:39 PM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
40. "RE: Default."
Estee, I agree wholeheartedly.
Someone would have to have a conscience before they could act on it.
No one ever said Taj voting for whoever for whatever reason is a criminal offense, or even necessarily wrong.
I just point out that it is hypocritical. Taj and Stephen discussed getting rid of JT at F4 if he lost the IC. It is hypocritical of Taj to then hold it against JT that he voted her out at F4 instead. I guess I am implying that is wrong, but only in the sense that being hypocritical and illogical is wrong. We are all, very much including myself, hypocritical and illogical at times. Mostly due to emotion, which leads to the very accurate post by Sol. Is it conscience or emotion that Taj would then be acting on?
Anyone can say Taj or anyone else has the right to feel however they want to feel and vote accordingly. If that is the premise we are going on, then that renders all discussion of who should vote for who completely moot.
OR we could look at it a bit more logically, or fairly if you will, and say Tyson had no right to be upset at Sierra for voting him out after the way he treated her and voted for her. Right? Or we should we just say that Tyson has the right to feel however he wants to feel and therefore his vote is completely righteous?
Again, then every vote ever cast was the right vote, and I just wasted 5 minutes talking about nonsense.
Peace/Out

>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ohmyheck 1919 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-18-09, 01:34 PM (EST)
Click to EMail ohmyheck Click to send private message to ohmyheck Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
3. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Carolina (3-2-2) - Couldn't shut up long enough to keep Jalapao on track for the easiest boot ever. Struggled in the first challenge, not smart enough to keep her mouth shut, and most annoying voice ever.

Candace (6-3-1) - Strong physically but that just shows how inept she was in the other two areas. Smart enough to figure out immediately how Coach was but unable to use that information because she went about it in the worst way. Voted out despite her strength over Erinn and Sierra.

Jerry (5-4-6) - Poor guy was taken out on a mercy vote. Well liked enough that he would have been a very large jury threat in the endgame. I could also see him stabilizing Timbira postmerge and not lose majority.

Sandy (3-1-1) - Okay, I lied. Sandy has the most annoying voice ever. Unbelievably useless in every way. At some point in life most people gain a social filter. Sandy skipped those formative years. Also, seeing her in a two-piece left me wanting to blind myself.

Spencer (5-5-5) - I had to look up who Spencer was so I just gave him the average score because I remember little about him.
Too naive to adequately play the game.

Sydney (4-4-6) - Estee, I knew her at the reunion, but only because I had seen her 45 minutes earlier during the Tour de Torches. If the P stood for physical attributes her score would be a lot higher.

Joe (6-2-6) - The two is because he believed in that pitiful fake idol. His body fell apart on him. How many times did he complain about his injuries? The six in social is because he seemed to be extremely well liked.

Brendan (7-5-6) - Blindsided because of inability to make people trust him. Made an alliance with everyone in the final 9 except Erinn, but only Sierra stayed loyal. He almost won the challenge that would have saved him.

Tyson (9-5-4) - Great physically. Socially started much better but he was taken down by his own arrogance. The only person in the pool whose ego is undeservedly as oversized as Coach's.

Sierra (6-3-2) - There has to be a reason that people despised her for a solid 33 days. Physically better than given credit for. Mentally, she could barely string together a few sentences and socially, she could not build an alliance with anyone not named Brendan.

Debbie (7-4-7) - Considering how I thought she would do, she was extremely surprising physically, always being in every challenge. Socially, everyone seemed to like her almost as much as Taj and JT, but she wasn't able to use that to her advantage in the end.

Coach (3-2-2) - Probably colored by how much I despise this man. I'm still confused as to how he won a challenge, and also how he didn't ##### everyone off enough to throw him in the fire on day four. A complete and total tool.

Taj (6-5-9) - Able to overcome her money to the point where it wasn't mentioned after day ten. Her downfall was, like so many final four victims, that she was too well liked.

Erinn (4-7-3) - Has anyone ever made it this far without a solid alliance? A classic example of making it far because others are more dangerous. That being said, her scrambling over her last two days led to an extremely fiery Final Tribal Council and very nearly got her to the council.

Stephen (4-9-5) - The recipient of the Amanda award for worst tribal council performance. Mentally much stronger than the rest of this cast, but looking around, that isn't that impressive. Physically pitiful and extremely awkward socially.

JT (8-6-10) - Probably the most likable winner ever. The aw, shucks good ol' boy made perfect moves to ensure that he would win. I think he is the only person never to take a vote against him and then get a unanimous decision at FTC, I know that Sandra was very close to it, and so was Earl, but I think that JT is the only one to deliver that.

The cast overall (5-4-5) Higher if they hadn't have wasted spots on Sandy, Carolina, and Candace.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-18-09, 01:57 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
5. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Earl did get one vote. (That's from memory: it's there from the old {no one named Cole has ever lost this game} coincidence.) Sandra collected -- let me check -- zero votes during her season, then took first place by a 6-1 tally. So for the double-perfecto, JT is the first honoree.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

MissMyth 352 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"

05-18-09, 03:30 PM (EST)
Click to EMail MissMyth Click to send private message to MissMyth Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
6. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Double-perfecto, AND took home the extra $100,000 people's choice award. Wow!
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-19-09, 02:57 AM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
10. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Sandra got a vote from me every episode (to get the ell off my TV).

>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"

05-23-09, 10:00 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Colonel%20Zoidberg Click to send private message to Colonel%20Zoidberg Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
31. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
The other not to get a vote against and win 6-1 was Tom Westman. Tom, Sandra, and Earl were the only ones who were one vote away from the Survivor perfect game - no votes against, a shutout in the final vote. I suppose that, technically, only Tom and Earl count, if you say that Fairplay was forced to vote for Sandra at F3 (since Lil had immunity, and Jiffy's "you cannot vote for Lil, and you cannot vote for yourself" spiel gives Sandra a vote by default.)

J.T. is the first to play the Survivor perfect game - and he won F3 immunity.

Another fact: As far as votes against go, J.T. and Stephen are one of only three pairs to get to the end with a combined one vote against - Ethan/Kim and Tom/Katie are the others. In both cases, the one without the vote against won.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"

05-24-09, 07:26 AM (EST)
Click to EMail garcor Click to send private message to garcor Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
32. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
LAST EDITED ON 05-24-09 AT 07:32 AM (EST)

Were any of the others: Sandra, Ethan, Tom, down in numbers at merge and yet still able to win without any (or only one) vote(s) cast against them? Certainly none of them were down by 2-1 (6 against 3) though that also says a lot about Timbura's game playing.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-18-09, 11:14 PM (EST)
Click to EMail michel Click to send private message to michel Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
7. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
LAST EDITED ON 05-18-09 AT 11:15 PM (EST)

I've always found it a little strange to separate the mental game from the social game because it's all part of the same strategy. I guess it makes for a snarky title.
I'll judge the mental (outwit) by what a player wanted to do while social (outlast) will be how it enabled one to advance.

Carolina Eastwood: (3-?-2)
-Weak in the only challenge we saw, but held her own in the trek.
- I can't judge her mental game since we only saw why she was booted.
- It's bad when you deflect the vote against yourself.

Candace Smith: (6-6-3)
- She seemed strong.
- She had the right idea: Get the jack@ss off ASAP.
- She didn't know how to sell it to others.

Jerry Sims: (?-4-7)
- He was sick.
- He knew Brendan was the better leader so he should have helped Candace rally the votes against Coach.
- We saw enough of his personality to know he would have rallied people around him.

Sandy Burgin: (4-2-2)
- She wasn't bad in challenges. That saved her from 1st boot.
- Her comment about not leaving beans to Timbira was the only thing saving her from a 1
- She drove everyone crazy.

Spencer Duhm: (5-?-3)
- Whatever good he did in other challenges was forgotten once he lost a challenge for his team.
- Fellow castaways said he was talking a good game so everything was hidden, making it impossible to rate him.
- He refused to socialize.

Sydney Wheeler: (7-4-6)
- She tied up Tyson during the wrestling basketball challenge and that let Stephen open for the winning score. The recap showed her as a strong worker.
- She admitted she should have been more active.
- Well liked, she was unlucky because Taj was sent to exile.

Joe Dowdle: (5-7-7)
- He wasn't that good in challenges.
- His strategy to bring Erinn to exile contributed immensily in Jalapao's success and BTW, he knew the idol was fake.
- He was a sociable fellow.

Brendan Synnott: (8-4-6)
- One of the 3 strongest players.
- He was smart but he let it all go to waste at the merge by not talking to Taj.
- He wasn't trusted.

Tyson Apostol: (8-2-5)
- P should come last but, again, we need a funny title, don't we? Here, a good performance exposed him.
- Stupid strategy. Even if JT and Stephen had replaced Coach and Sierra, Joe and Taj had to be voted out first and Erinn had to be reassured.
- He was a fun guy to have around during the first phase of the game.

Sierra Reed: (6-5-5)
- A fast runner and a hard worker.
- Aligning with Brendan was smart, not adding other players to that alliance but waiting for the merge was dumb.
- People didn't like her? That's not always bad in this game.

Debra Beebe: (6-1-7)
- She was surprisingly good in challenges and worked hard.
- The enabler: She heard Coach set his pecking order of Candace, Erinn and Sierra and she agreed. She later heard Coach add JT and Stephen pushing her back to 5th wheel and she agreed. Then she realized being with Coach wasn't a good idea. The nickname of Bubbles suited her well.
- She didn't complained so she was accepted.

Benjamin Wade: (2-1-5)
- A broken down carcass at 37.
- The absolute worst strategy ever. Even Lex wasn't able to destroy Boran like this. Take JT if you want a solid player but get rid of his allies first, not yours.
- Again, being unliked isn't always bad in this game. Being a jerk is.

Tamara Johnson-George: (7-4-8)
- The strongest woman this season.
- If Brendan didn't come to her, why didn't she go to him? A likable player needs to have some control.
- Being great socially was her demise because it didn't match with her mental game.

Erinn Lobdell: (4-7-7)
- She came within a few seconds of beating JT in the F4 challenge. That could have done it for her.
- She was central to the biggest move of the game, then she split the Jalapao 3 and almost broke up Stephen and JT.
- She made the two connections she needed and then she used her isolation to her advantage.

Stephen Fishbach: (5-7-8)
- He did what he had to do in challenges and in camp.
- Smart player, in retrospect he should have gone with Sierra who was closer to him than Debbie and Coach who were closer to JT. His FTC performance needed to be aggresssive, like: "It was all my plan."
- He was never in danger before the merge and everyone in the F4 would have taken him to the end.

James Thomas, Jr.: (8-?-9)

- Great in many challenges, he lost the last key tribal one.
- What strategy? Brendan, Coach and Debbie all wanted to give him the money.
- Despite that, he needed to win the last 3 immunities because he let Coach go instead of Erinn.


  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-19-09, 02:54 AM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
9. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
In a departure from the mode, I'm just going to address some points I agree with.
Absolutely right about Stephen's FTC game plan. I thought he did a pretty good job in FTC, but his strategy of "growth in the game" was the wrong one. When you are down by 3 TDs in the 4th quarter, you need to throw it deep. He was not aggressive enough, though he tried to be in the end with Taj. Too little too late. He needed to point out the fact that strategically JT rode Stephen's coattails. Point out the fact that JT's response to every boot was "whatever you want, man." Point out the fact that HE controlled the game, not JT.
Of course, as I discussed with my wife at the time, using that strategy also admits to ultimate culpability in the boot of every jury member. Such a strategy could easily have backfired. Regardless, short of exposing JT as Usama Bin Laden in disguise, or managing to hypnotize the entire jury, I don't think Stephen really had any chance. Debbie said she was undecided and then asked JT a question he could admit to and look good and a question for Stephen he has no choice but to admit to and look terrible.
I also agree keeping Erinn and booting Coach was the wrong choice. Coach would have stayed with him to the end. Really, as I mentioned before, JT participated in a number of moves that were good for Stephen, but bad for him. I think initiating the ADS by taking out Tyson was premature as well, a spasmic reaction to Tyson's IC run. Taking out Tyson left JT as the clear biggest threat in the game, putting a target on his shoulders. Fortunately for him no one even considered working with Sierra, and Taj made no postmerge moves whatsoever. The women could have easily gotten together at that point and booted all the men.


>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-19-09, 03:01 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Estee Click to send private message to Estee Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
11. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
I've always found it a little strange to separate the mental game from the social game because it's all part of the same strategy.

Because to echo the dice rollers of the world, intelligence and charisma are really two separate categories. There are those who are smart and have no idea how to get along with others, while we get others who are strategic idiots that still have a cultlike following of puppy contestants trailing them everywhere they go. It's also manipulation of the mind versus working with emotions: same overall game, very different playing fields.


  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"

05-19-09, 06:07 AM (EST)
Click to EMail garcor Click to send private message to garcor Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
12. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
LAST EDITED ON 05-19-09 AT 06:10 AM (EST)

Agree JT was one of the strongest winners on Survivor. He had Brian's ability to get people to want to ally with him; though in JT's case it appeared people really liked him; not just viewed him as a sure thing for final two and hoped he would bring them with him. Also agree Stephen had to argue he was the strategist at final TC as JT was obviously the stronger social and challenge player and worked (at least) as hard around camp. If Stephen admits they were co-strategists, then what did Stephen do better than JT? Sounds like the other player's didn't hold Stephen in such high regard, so perhaps they would not have believed he was the main strategist in their alliance. Still don't understand why Stephen didn't tell Debbie he would have taken JT; true or false? Who would know for sure. And if you're final TC argument seems to be that JT isn't as great a guy as everyone thinks; why put it out there that JT was loyal to you while you would have been disloyal to him. Perhaps Debbie and Stephen were part of a discussion to move out JT and Stephen was afraid Debbie would call him on it. Doubt Stephen could have won final TC anyway; JT was too well-liked; too well-regarded; and won the crucial challenges. But Stephen might have won a couple of votes if he had made a better argument for why he deserved to win. Accepting the moral responsibility for voting out allies wasn't it.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-19-09, 08:05 AM (EST)
Click to EMail michel Click to send private message to michel Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
13. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
"...intelligence and charisma are really two separate categories. There are those who are smart and have no idea how to get along with others, while we get others who are strategic idiots that still have a cultlike following of puppy contestants trailing them everywhere they go."


In real life, you are entirely right but, when we see 44 minutes out of 300 hours of footage for each 3 day cycle, it's impossible to judge most of these players. A smart person who doesn't get along with others will be portrayed as a dumb player. The one with the cult like following could be presented as a true leader if the editors want. Separating mental and social is going into too fine details for what we see most of the time.


  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-19-09, 12:40 PM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
14. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
You can use that same argument to say we don't have enough information to analyze anything in the game. Performance in the challenges is pretty empirical though editing can still affect who we think is contributing the most.
Like sports journalists who watch a particular team play 2 outta 16 games a year and still get paid to give their opinions on said teams, we basically do the same, giving analysis based off partial information. All we can do is use the information we have been given and go off of results. I really don't know what social approach Sierra used, but I know the result. That is what I go off of.

>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"

05-19-09, 06:49 PM (EST)
Click to EMail garcor Click to send private message to garcor Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
16. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
LAST EDITED ON 05-19-09 AT 07:08 PM (EST)

Physical/Mental/Social

Brendan Synnott: (8-6-7)
Not sure how much of his problems with Coach/Tyson were his doing and how much was circumstances.

Tyson Apostol: (9-2-5)
Best challenge performer. Not a strong strategist. Trashing of Sierra got old.

Sierra Reed: (6-5-4)
Whining was a bit much after Brendan's ouster. Would have preferred seeing her more proactive earlier.

Debra Beebe: (7-2-7)
Came across as way too much of a silent partner in her alliance. Someone needed to point out to Coach and Tyson that they were pushing away voters they might need. Obviously it never occurred to either of them.

Benjamin Wade: (5-0-4)
Worst strategist ever; though some of his misjudgments might have come from his inability or unwillingness to tolerate qualities he didn't like in Erinn and Sierra; which would make them as much about his temperament as about his strategy. Think his (at times) bizarre stories and behaviour might have kept him around longer as people didn't want to deal with his reaction to being voted. So once he was unfanged by the loss of his alliance mates, he was safe to keep around. Who knows; probably gets boring out there; maybe JT etc. grew to look forward to his antics to liven up their day.

Tamara Johnson-George: (6-5-8)
Relied too much on promises from JT and Stephen. Did not look to be scrambling enough to stay in game near the end. Seemed quite popular with most other players.

Erinn Lobdell: (4-7-7)
Did scramble. Worked hard and tried to stir things up to hang around. Feel she deserved her finish because of it.

Stephen Fishbach: (5-8-6)
Did well. Think he most likely had no chance to beat JT before jury. Especially not if they really co-authored their strategy.

James Thomas, Jr.: (8-7-10)
One of the strongest winners. Game compares well with Brian from Thailand only appears a better, more likeable person. One of top three winners??

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-20-09, 02:27 AM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
17. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
A more likable person than Brian? Is that possible? Hahaha....
I think there is a good argument for JT being in the top 3 of winners, but I can't put a man whose idea of strategy was "whatever you want, man" over Brian, who ruthlessly controlled his game from Day 1.
Me defending Coach is getting old, I'm sure. But to me, a poor strategist is someone with NO strategy, which describes about 50% of the castaways to ever compete. Coach had a strategy, a very clearly defined strategy, that he explained several times. Again, if you are strong, aligning with the strong is a great strategy, something that frankly we haven't really seen on a 4 or 5 person level. Such a strategy would protect the strong from being booted simply because they are strong. Now, Coach's execution may have been crap, but the base strategy was a good one. And even if you don't agree with that, still, you have to admit the man had a strategy. That alone has to give him more strategical credit than someone who had no strategy.


>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"

05-20-09, 05:39 PM (EST)
Click to EMail garcor Click to send private message to garcor Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Would be a tough call. Top three is getting crowded. I'd have to have Yul, Tom, and yes I know this is not a popular sentiment, but Parvati in there too. Make it my top five rounding out with Brian and JT. Sorry Richard and Tina, etc.

Yes, but his despite his strategy of keeping the strong his first target was Brendan.

Besides, I'd gave more credit to a strategy that says "Anyone but me" than I would to one which blows up your own tribe. Doesn't get along with Erinn and makes no effort to keep her vote. Gives Sierra no satisfaction; refers to her as dragon dung or some such thing when his alliance needs the vote of one or the other to know they have a majority. Oh, and according to Stephen I think it was, inadvertently acts as a spy for the Jalapao 3 by telling them exactly what the Coach/Tyson/Debbie alliance was planning. All this because he decided JT was a fellow warrior. Still think his strategic or mental game was the worst, at least of anyone who had some control in the game.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-21-09, 01:00 AM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
21. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Our top 5 is pretty much the same, just a different order- Brian, Tom, Yul, JT, Parvati.

>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"

05-21-09, 07:15 PM (EST)
Click to EMail garcor Click to send private message to garcor Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
22. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
great minds think alike?
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-20-09, 08:17 PM (EST)
Click to EMail michel Click to send private message to michel Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
20. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Consider strategy as a gun. It's better not to own a gun than to play Russian roulette with it.


I found Coach's choice for the person that did his lie detector test very interesting!

http://www.southerncaliforniapolygraph.com/

A fraud covering for a liar, not bad company.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PsychoKitty 678 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"

05-30-09, 08:34 PM (EST)
Click to EMail PsychoKitty Click to send private message to PsychoKitty Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
44. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Wow! I KNEW there had to be something way wrong there. Couldn't believe Jiffy acted like he truly thought it was real on the air! Good job Michel!

Not that I have an opinion one way or another ;)
Signature by tribephyl

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-21-09, 08:33 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Aruba Click to send private message to Aruba Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
23. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
CAROLINA (2-4-2)
- Her physical "performance" (or lack of it) was a non-factor.
- Nice comment at the Reunion Show, so mental gets the "highest" rating.
- Went before Sandy? Nuff said.

CANDICE (5-4-2)
- Seemed to have the physical attributes; and NO that's NOT what I meant...
- "Oh and I also do a little law on the side" pretty much tells us what she really thinks about her mental aspect.
- Deserves a "1" but mentioning in a post game interview had she stayed longer she would have made-out with the guys shoots her up to a "2".

JERRY (3-4-5)
- Early game bellyache makes it tough to give him a decent physical mark.
- Maybe it was his ill health but I had him pegged a potential UTR player
- Could have been a calming influence on the tribe had he not given Erinn the biggest break of the game.

SANDY (4-3-2)
- Out of the three categories, physical is her highest rating...Does that tell you something?
- Giving a "Yippee" cheer on day one when she found out she'd be getting a helicopter ride to camp is not a "logic-based play."
- Was just being herself...should have never been casted.

SPENSER (4-2-3)
- A disappointment in challenges.
- When asked if he thought it was odd that Taj and Brendan keep going back to EI he responds, "Everyone else knows about it." DUH!?
- Please raise the eligibility age back up to 21.

SYDNEY (6-3-6)
- Held her own in challenges and handled the harsh conditions well.
- Wearing an unbathed dude's skanky boxer shorts after he sweats in the Brazilian heat? EEEWWWW!!!
- Fit in well, but with looks like hers hard not to.

JOE (4-4-5)
- Major disappointment in challenges and that's even before he hurt this knee.
- Not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.
- Had he kept his libido in check could have been more of a social factor in the game.

BRENDAN (7-4-6)
- Put him behind Tyson and JT in challenge performance. Athletic guy but I didn't think he was too strong.
- Made a few blunders in the game but managed to get away with most of them.
- Being dubbed the "leader" of your tribe when spending half your time on EI must count for something. But ultimately voted off because he was a "weasel" who could not be trusted.

TYSON (9-4-7)
- Clearly the challenge stud of the season. Although a weak case might be made for others, the only REAL bonafide ADS victim this season.
- Was the first to catch on about the EI alliance, otherwise couldn't see the forest through the trees.
- Every tribe needs a class clown when strangers are tossed in an environment with adverse conditions. Fun guy just being himself.

SIERRA (6-5-3)
- Worked hard at camp and performed decent in challenges.
- Mentally inconsistent. Showed flashes of being smart, then did some stupid things.
- It seems wherever there was drama and arguments Sierra was in the middle of it. Wrong place, wrong time? Perhaps...Perhaps NOT.

DEBBIE (6-4-6)
- Was strong for a small woman and showed a decent work ethic.
- She grills Stephen for his indecisiveness at FTC but the first words out of her mouth were "I don't know who I'm voting for yet." HUH? WHAT??
- Before we saw her ugly side toward the end seemed like a fun lady to have around. Anyone who does backflips in her panties can be part of my social game. Riding coattails has worked for some, but it didn't for Debbie.

BENJI (4-1-4)
- Underachieved (even by his own admission at the "chop" RC) But did give 100% in his last few challenges.
- I'm going to repeat my quote from earlier this season: "If I were a therapist by profession and all my patients were like Benji, AIG would be asking ME for bailout money." Need I day more?
- Gotta give a pyschopath some kudos for making the F5 without riding coattails and/or flying UTR.

TAJ (5-4-8)
- A tale of two competitors. High marks pre-merge; low marks post-merge. Thus a middle rating.
- Had much more to offer the game than riding coattails. Mentally she checked out.
- When no one will bid against you on an auction's final item AND they graciously hand over thousands of dollars to a millionaire that's got to speak volumes for being socially liked.

ERINN (1-5-3)
- A slug on life support would have posed a more physical threat than Erinn. "Contribution to tribe?" She couldn't even contribute to her OWN well-being on EI.
- Fared better in the mental challenges, and she knew at merge that "4" is a lower number than "6" so she gets a morsel of credit for that.
- Four words about her social game..."SHUT YOUR DAMN PIEHOLE!"

STEVEN (4-9-7)
- Totally unathletic but gave his best effort and worked hard at camp.
- Great mind for the game. Nothing he could have done at FTC would have been enough. Controlled the game more than any other player this season.
- Liked by all despite being the mastermind behind their boots. Appeared to be a bit awkward around the younger women but he didn't need them, so no harm there.

JT (8-6-10)
- Second biggest physical threat after Tyson. Had his run against subpar opponents. Hard-nosed competitor and very hard worker in camp.
- Some are dubbing him "Best winner ever." His mediocre mental rating deprives him of that honor in my opinion...
- ...but his great social game puts him in the upper echelon of past winners. Players wanted to be associated with him. And being unanomously voted "player would trust most with their lives" says it all. That is a distinction usually given to a middle-aged or older person; not a 24-year old young man.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-22-09, 03:51 PM (EST)
Click to EMail iltarion Click to send private message to iltarion Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
27. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Very good point that normally the consensus pick for "who you'd trust with your life" isn't a 24 year old guy. Most 24 year old guys can't be trusted with a sub sandwich let alone someone's life.
Props to Coach for not flying UTR? Hahaha... Yeah, I'd say he's the LEAST UTR contestant in Survivor history.

>

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

05-23-09, 07:14 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Aruba Click to send private message to Aruba Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
30. "RE: The PMS ratings: Tocantins"
Hahaha..I thought you might get a kick out of that one.

Actually I gave him props for making the F5 without taking the pathetic and lame UTR and/or riding coattails cop-out approach.

I didn't think anyone would be "LEAST UTR" than Shane, but I'm giving the nod to the Dragonslayer.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top


Lock | Archive | Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
about this site   •   advertise on this site  •   contact us  •   privacy policy   •