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"Sugar's season"
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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 06:37 AM (EST)
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"Sugar's season"
While she didn't win, or even get a vote at final TC, I feel like Sugar was the most memorable survivor this season, even more than the multi-talented Bob, the badly behaved Randy and Corinne, or the athletically ungifted Crystal. As mentioned by others, Sugar did more to decide the final five than anyone else, and her emotionally roller-coaster behavior was sometimes fascinating and sometimes exasperating. Was usually interesting though.
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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Sugar's season mindy23 12-15-08 1
 RE: Sugar's season mia rules18 12-15-08 2
   RE: Sugar's season PagongRatEater 12-15-08 6
 RE: Sugar's season byoffer 12-15-08 3
   RE: Sugar's season Wacko Jacko 12-15-08 4
       RE: Sugar's season mia rules18 12-15-08 5
       RE: Sugar's season toddE 12-15-08 7
           RE: Sugar's season Snidget 12-15-08 8
   RE: Sugar's season RonReports 12-15-08 14
 RE: Sugar's season Fishercat 12-15-08 9
 RE: Sugar's season mars 12-15-08 10
   RE: Sugar's season jbug 12-15-08 11
 Sugar's season Zimbochick 12-15-08 12
 RE: Sugar's season DoodleBug 12-15-08 13
 RE: Sugar's season iltarion 12-16-08 15
   RE: Sugar's season toddE 12-16-08 16
       RE: Sugar's season garcor 12-16-08 17
       RE: Sugar's season Aruba 12-16-08 20
           RE: Sugar's season garcor 12-16-08 21
           RE: Sugar's season michel 12-17-08 25
               RE: Sugar's season Aruba 12-18-08 31
                   RE: Sugar's season michel 12-18-08 34
                       RE: Sugar's season Aruba 12-18-08 38
       RE: Sugar's season garcor 12-16-08 22
   RE: Sugar's season Wacko Jacko 12-16-08 18
       RE: Sugar's season LFJ 12-16-08 19
       RE: Sugar's season ADKer 12-16-08 23
 RE: Sugar's season michel 12-16-08 24
   RE: Sugar's season garcor 12-17-08 26
   RE: Sugar's season CTgirl 12-17-08 27
       RE: Sugar's season garcor 12-17-08 28
   RE: Sugar's season Aruba 12-18-08 32
       RE: Sugar's season michel 12-18-08 35
 RE: Sugar's season Jims02 12-17-08 29
   RE: Sugar's season iltarion 12-18-08 30
       RE: Sugar's season Aruba 12-18-08 33
           Even when she didn't know the outco... michel 12-18-08 36
               RE: Even when she didn't know the o... Aruba 12-18-08 37
                   RE: Even when she didn't know the o... garcor 12-19-08 39
 RE: Sugar's season sol 12-19-08 40
   RE: Sugar's season garcor 12-20-08 41

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mindy23 1319 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 08:49 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Sugar's season"
I totally agree! Most of the jury and the final 5 were where they were because of her. Didn't do much for her getting no votes, but she really WAS the deciding factor in a good deal of this season's game.

Pretty tricky when you think about the fact that she was traded off several times, and spent a good deal of time at Exile Island! Think of how much more she could have done if she'd been around 100% of the time! Who knows, maybe she was around just enough to see what needed to be seen with an objective eye.

In any case, I think she played a heart-felt, classy game. And she will remain one of my all-time favorites. She did NOT deserve the garbage that was spewed out of Corrine's mouth, and I hope that Corrine pays for that dearly. I'm not a vengeful person, but never have I seen such a sore loser, and someone who WANTS to be known as a beotch, and takes pride in it. Kudos to Sugar for standing up to that creature!

I hope coming in 3rd will give her a good enough prize that she can rub it in Corrine's face for a long time to come!!! But knowing Sugar as we've had glances, I doubt she even cares what happens with Corrine from this point on. She is one classy lady, that Sugar!!


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mia rules18 409 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 08:55 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Sugar's season"
I agree...Sugar should have argued a better case for herself at jury. As we've seen in the past, a good jury argument/plea can make or brake votes at the final tribal. She really faltered and seemed scared of the jury. She should have stated those credentials, made a better case for herself. Sure, she never would have beaten Bob, but she could have come in second rather than thrid, or even gotten that one vote for a tie!!

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PagongRatEater 12973 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 11:09 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Sugar's season"
Sugar was the best player this season without a question. Even Bob admitted that she played him like a fiddle. It seems unfathomable that she recieved no votes and that useless, lazy, coattail rider Suzy got four votes. What a joke.

I think she really did hurt herself at tribal with the jury. She gave almost exactly the wrong answer every time. DW has a theory that it was Sugar's low self-esteem that caused her to self-destruct. She didn't believe that she deserved to win and sabotaged herself.

I don't think that is such a bad theory all things considered.


A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

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byoffer 15808 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 09:35 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Sugar's season"
I agree that she made a lot of strategic moves, and somewhat controlled the game, but some of her decisions were wrong.

She should have ousted Bob and Matty, and kept Crystal and Kenny. She played a great game to get to the jury, but forgot all about having a jury that might vote for her, or at least not vote for those sitting next to her.

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Wacko Jacko 2434 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 09:57 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Sugar's season"
LAST EDITED ON 12-15-08 AT 10:42 AM (EST)

Sugar must have displayed the worst jury performance I have ever seen. In addition to the lousy performance taking Bob to the finals with her was moronic. Bob had three votes in the bag...that was an uphill battle for anyone.

Why was her performance so bad? Well first people when interviewed before the actual questioning were all acknowledging that Sugar played a good game. They said they were going to give her a chance. She was so bad that she pushed the votes in other directions.

I don't know who voted for who. But Randy for example said he was considering her. Then Sugar told him to his face he was an #####. Then when matty was asking her if she had any regrets....she says she regretted what she did to Kenny. HUH???? No mentioned of Matty. She also, basically bailed Bob out when Bob said he was upset for how Randy was treated.....Sugar was helping her competition at the jury. She gave Corrine the finger...although it was deserved...still not something you want to do to get votes. Then there was one person at the beginning...was it Charlie??? She basically refused to answer his question. She told Crystal she wasn't a good person......she told her she was a bully.

Sugar basically told the jury I don't want the money. Honestly, it was the worst jury performance I have every seen. Embarassingly bad.

Susie basically was given the votes of the people who did not want to vote for Bob or Sugar. Her performance was almost as bad. All she kept saying is that she was trying. LOL.....and she all most WON!

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mia rules18 409 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 10:53 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Sugar's season"
I know, the fact that Susie almost won is unreal. Jeff's reaction towards the whole matter last night was GREAT.


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toddE 1433 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 11:18 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: Sugar's season"
Yes, I never thought I'd see someone do worse at Final TC than Amanda, but Sugar topped her.

I think she was right to give Corinne the finger, because Corrinne really went too far (and I'm a Corinne fan). But she certainly badly messed up with Crystal, Matty, even Randy and Charlie.

She did seem to be helping Bob to win, and that seemed to be her intent. By going with a final Bob/Matty alliance instead of Crystal/Kenny, she seemed to set herself up to lose. But I almost cried during the final 4 TC, it was very moving.

She controlled nearly the entire game, including controlling who won. Unfortunately, her issues prevented her from giving herself the win, which I think she totally could have done.

She was the most memorable player. Bob wasn't that deserving a winner, but it is an interesting reflection of different seasons. Way back in season 1, the manipulative Rich defeated his alliance mate, challenge-whore Kelly. This time the manipulative Sugar saved and gave the win to her alliance mate, challenge-whore Bob (a nice guy but not exactly entertaining).


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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 11:41 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Sugar's season"
The poor sweet me thing definitely helped her during the game because it kept people from seeing her as a threat and gave her a lot of room to manipulate others to get her way even when her way was any way the wind blows.

I don't know if it was the grieving or what that kept her from being able to turn around and really stand up for herself. I think she really just couldn't bring herself to see why she deserved to win. A few hell, yeah I used everything I have to put each and everyone of you on the jury so I would make it to the end answers I think would have gotten at least a couple of Susie votes switched over to her.

I dunno, maybe she just didn't see that there was anyway to sway the bitter clique and let that get in her way of owning her game. I also think the Matty vs Bob thing took some emotional wind out of her sails. I think she'd have done better if Susie had been voted out and she didn't have to make that sort of emotional choice. I also think saying to Matty, I couldn't chose between you so I gave both of you a fair shot at the end might have helped, but I think he was drinking the Sugar is Evil Punch over at the Ponderosa and I'm not sure she could have done much about that or not.

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RonReports 218 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 08:16 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Sugar's season"
>I agree that she made a
>lot of strategic moves, and
>somewhat controlled the game, but
>some of her decisions were
>wrong.
>
>She should have ousted Bob and
>Matty, and kept Crystal and
>Kenny. She played a
>great game to get to
>the jury, but forgot all
>about having a jury that
>might vote for her

Sugar seemed to be thinking about her life after the game. She would have had a better chance to win if she kept Crystal and
Kenny but she was right that they did not deserve to win, and she was morally right to prevent any chance of their winning. Kenny saying that he planned to guilt-trip Bob into giving up the immunity idol and then vote Bob out proved Sugar's point that Kenny was a bad person, undeserving of having any chance of winning this game. By eliminating the bad people, Sugar gained many fans and she also increased her own self-respect.

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Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 11:54 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: Sugar's season"
Agreed, easily the most memorable. She literally decided who composed the Final 5, Final 4, and even Final 3. She was an absolutely fascinating player and one of the most interesting characters this show has ever had.

With that said, she was one of the worst strategists in Survivor history. Ill-advised boots and blindsides, betraying pretty much every one of her allies, most of whom for no good reason (Crystal and Kenny were better F3 goats than Bob or Matty, Randy's fake idol was incredibly unnecessary, and Corrine's just a hateful human being).

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mars 1 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 12:46 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Sugar's season"
I think that Sugar intentionally threw the final to make sure that she didn't take any votes from Bob. I was hoping to hear that come out during the live show.

But it really seemed that Sugar did Survivor for personal reasons that had nothing to do with winning any money.

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jbug 16685 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 01:28 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Sugar's season"
I gotta agree with the noobie (welcome mars).
It really seemed to me that Sugar wasn't trying to gain any votes.


Santa is shakin! bobblin! Thanks Tribe!

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Zimbochick 35 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 01:28 PM (EST)
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12. "Sugar's season"
Sugar really confused me in the final tribal council. She definitely "dumbed herself down" during the show, and the fact that she made it the the final 3 was evidence to that fact. But her responses in the final tribal council reminded me of a pouty rebellious teenager, and not someone on the verge of winning a million. Her decision to take Bob to final 3 was, well, stupid! That was the kiss of death for her, and the fact that he did so poorly in the final tribal council still couldn't save her from herself and her purile responses. I was so rooting for her going into the final, and thought it was hers to lose, but after the final TC knew Bob had won (or to be correct she had lost). I remember one of the previous finalists (maybe Amamnda) saying that the final TC is very difficult, they are exhausted, starving, and emotionally wrecked, and that they can't think straight, let alone put forward a good argument. Maybe this was the case for Sugar!
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DoodleBug 5133 desperate attention whore postings
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12-15-08, 04:59 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Sugar's season"
Sugar was exactly herself during the final tribal council. I don't think was trying to win or lose, she was just answering the questions truthfully. She wanted the good guy to win - and she thought that was either Bob or Matty. She most likely thought she didn't deserve to win.

She was certainly memorable and made the season. She was this season's puppet master whether she knew it or not and deserved votes for that reason alone. A vote for Susie was a vote against the other two.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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12-16-08, 02:07 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Sugar's season"
Sugar is not the most memorable. In fact, I venture most won't remember her after another season or two. Bob won the season. Bob will be the main person people remember. Bob will probably be one of the favorite winners of all time.
Sugar made the most moves in the game and decided the most votes. True. However, I can not call her the best player. Bob won the challenges, which are a big part of the game. He deserved to win. Sugar might have been the better strategic player, but even that is difficult to say because of all the strategic blunders she made. And let's not forget she is probably gone early if it weren't for Ace protecting her. Then she let's Kenny manipulate her into booting Ace. A lot of bad moves.
We have never seen anyone play off emotion like Sugar did. She literally played with her heart. In the end, her heart told her to give Bob or Matt a chance to win because they were better people than Kenny or Crystal. She knew dang well she had no chance to beat them. Her decision made this season. Without it, we have a crap season.
Props to her for her honest answers at tribal. Corinne and Randy aren't worth answering. You are going to suck up to them and still not likely get their vote? Screw that. The only mistake I see she made at FTC was telling Matty she regretted what she did to Kenny. Did she want Matty to give Bob his vote? I think so. Matty votes for Suzie?!!! Did he just tell Bob "you were the best damn competitor out here." Haha.. so much for that!
Props to Sugar and I wish her luck! Most memorable? For right now, maybe. For 2 seasons from now? No.


>

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toddE 1433 desperate attention whore postings
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12-16-08, 11:33 AM (EST)
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16. "RE: Sugar's season"
Well, only time will tell but I must disagree.

I think the only way Bob will be remembered is as "The Old Guy" who won. As someone else posted, Sugar gave him the win just like Colby gave Tina the win way back in S2, and I think Colby is more memorable than Tina (although Jerri was probably the most memorable from that season)

Most Memorable from each season (100% my opinion, of course)

S1-Rich (also won)
S2-Jerri (Tina won)
S3-Lex (Ethan won)
S4-Kathy (Vecepia won)
S5-hmmm...awful cast....hmmmm....probably Shii Ann (Brian won)
S6-Jenna,(Winner) followed closely by Rob C...excellent cast that season
S7-Rupert (Sandra won)
S8-Rob Mariano (Amber won, but he almost counts as a winner)
S9-Ami (Chris won)
S10-Stephenie (no offense to winner Tom, but I still go with Stephenie)
S11-Stephenie Again (Dani won)
S12-Cirie (Aras won, worst winner of all time, couldn't remember him at all)
S13-Ozzie (Yul won, another dull winner)
S14-Yau Man (Earl, had to look him up too)
S15-James (Todd was a great winner, though. Well cast season)
S16-Parvati (winner of one of the best cast seasons ever!)

So out of 16 seasons, only Rich, Jenna and Parvati were both most memorable and the winner.

Also must say that seasons 12-14 were super boring, and seasons 15-17 have been excellent


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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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12-16-08, 02:34 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Sugar's season"
LAST EDITED ON 12-17-08 AT 07:02 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 12-16-08 AT 09:05†PM (EST)

I'm sticking with Sugar too. In addition to her personality one minute fun (the "Sugar Shack") the next crying, and her good looks, no one has ever hijacked the closing portion of a season before to ensure that the survivors she considered the best people would go as far as possible.

There have been other players reminiscent of Bob - Yau for one, and the teammate of Terry's whose name I can't remember. (Yau was a more interesting personality to me than Bob.) But I don't think anyone has ever played the game the way Sugar did. Doubt anyone will again either.

And she was certainly more emblamatic of a season of excessive emotion, paybacks and just plain bad behavior than relatively nice guy Bob.

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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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12-16-08, 07:07 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Sugar's season"
I totally disagree with everyone who says Sugar "gave Bob the win." This man advanced by his own merit. What did Sugar have to do about his record-tying FIVE challenge wins in a row to even get to that point to begin with?

Yes Sugar's vote in the F4 was big...but all that did was get Bob into a tie-breaker. In order for Bob to reach the Finals he had to do what he had done up to that point...advance on his own merit and WIN the tie-breaker.

Also I feel the Colby/Tina analogy is not an accurate one. In the Outback, Colby had the season all but won and then he erased his name off the million dollar check and handed it to Tina. Sugar, and everyone else, knew she didn't have a prayer of winning. In that regard I believe the closest analogy we had was Danielle in Exile Island. Danielle knew she wasn't going to win so she essentially had to choose who was more deaserving: Terry or Aras. Danielle got it wrong; but Sugar, to her credit, got it right.

Or another F4 analogy was Palau. Ian appeared to be a dead man walking at the F4 TC until Katie stuck by him and forced a tie much like what Sugar did this season. Katie gave Ian an opportunity to win, but obviously he did not. Sure Sugar contributed to Bob's opportunity to advance and in "Bob" fashion he took full advantage based on his own merit.

A well-deserved Champion in his own right!

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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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12-16-08, 09:18 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Sugar's season"
LAST EDITED ON 12-17-08 AT 06:50 AM (EST)

She did save Bob as he was going home for sure at F4 without her vote. And she did, probably unwittingly, give him an advantage as she told Bob and not Matty her plans. Bob did take advantage and went off to practice his fire starting skills. Whether Matty would have done the same if he knew a tie vote was coming I don't know. As he said he wasn't good at homework. And Bob might have beat him anyway. But at least he would have known he was looking at a tie vote.

Admittedly, Sugar was not a likely winner. But she wasn't that far off from going to F3 with Crystal and Suzie which would have given her a shot, at least if she hadn't gone out of her way to humiliate Randy. Most of the actions that prevented a Sugar/Crystal/Suzie F3 were Sugar's. She saved Matty at F6 when she could have stayed with her alliance and kept Crystal in the game. If so, substitute Crystal for Matty at the next IC, won by Bob. Unlikely to change the result. Then it would have just been a matter of convincing Bob and Suzie to vote off Ken, who had played a more visible strategic game than anyone else left. If Suzie still wins the final IC, the three women would likely have voted off Bob, knowing they couldn't beat him. You would have five members of Onion on the jury. They wouldn't have wanted to vote for Suzie who had broken up their alliance by flipping. Randy (and likely Corinne) would not have voted for Crystal. Possibly Marcus as well. This would leave Sugar close to having four votes.

Course Sugar probably didn't know this. But if she had just been playing to maximize her own chances of winning, rather than trying to bring the survivors she thought were the best people into the final three she might have won. She certainly played a unique game, regardless of her motivations.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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12-17-08, 00:06 AM (EST)
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25. "RE: Sugar's season"
Bob is a champion who was ready to be "Eriked" right out of the game.


There are two big differences between Ian and Bob:
- Katie was playing to win the game when she did that. Sugar was playing for a new movie contract.

- Ian still had to play the F3 challenge, Sugar gave Bob a seat in front of the jury.


"Danielle got it wrong"

Still not over it I see!

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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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12-18-08, 07:09 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Sugar's season"
>Bob is a champion who was
>ready to be "Eriked" right
>out of the game.

To mention Bob and Erik in the same sentence is nothing short of ludicrous. No way Bob gives up his IN at the F5 TC. If you really want to stretch it you can credit Sugar with giving Bob an "out" to justify not giving Ken the necklace. But since Ken STILL did not vote for Bob and Bob won anyway is was not a factor in the final analysis.

>There are two big differences between
>Ian and Bob:
>- Katie was playing to win
>the game when she did
>that. Sugar was playing for
>a new movie contract.

Katie was playing to win???? Do you really think in her wildest imagination she thought she had any chance of beating the most perfect Survivor to ever play the game??? As a matter of fact she stated that she was hoping to salvage at least one vote so she wouldn't be shutout by Tom (which she did with Coby's vote.) Sure doesn't sound like someone "playing to win" to me.


>- Ian still had to play
>the F3 challenge, Sugar gave
>Bob a seat in front
>of the jury.

Please note the word I put in boldface - opportunity

All I'm saying is both Ian and Bob were given opportunites to advance and win. Ian didn't; Bob did.
Sugar did not "give Bob a seat in front of the Jury." She gave him a seat in front of a fire-making apparatus for a tie-breaker. Bob gave HIMSELF a seat in front of the jury by winning the tie-breaker on his own merit.

>"Danielle got it wrong"
>
>Still not over it I see!

Not so...just stating that Terry was more deserving than Aras.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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12-18-08, 07:35 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: Sugar's season"
"No way Bob gives up his IN at the F5 TC"

Bob repeated every time he's been asked that he was indeed going to give Kenny his necklace if Sugar hadn't warned him.

"Katie was playing to win???? Do you really think in her wildest imagination she thought she had any chance of beating the most perfect Survivor to ever play the game???"

Once she was in the F2 against (the not-so-perfect but very strong) Tom, yes, she knew her goose was cooked. That's exactly why she saved Ian at F4. Ian had made the other players realize he wasn't that deserving of the million so Katie would have had a shot at winning against him. Slim but a chance still. Sugar knew she had no chance of beating Bob. That's the difference.



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12-18-08, 08:07 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Sugar's season"
Bob was going to give Ken the necklace only if he felt Ken was at risk. He said that to Ken before Sugar told him about the potential blindside.

"Slim" is an understatement. No way Katie has a prayer of winning a F2 against Ian. Actually I think Coby would have voted Ian and we could have seen our first shutout in the Finals.

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12-16-08, 09:19 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Sugar's season"
Would choose Brian from season five. Shii Ann was better known for all-stars. Also Rob C. for Amazon. Not sure who for Guatamala: Bobby Jon?
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12-16-08, 04:10 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Sugar's season"
LAST EDITED ON 12-16-08 AT 04:13 PM (EST)

Iltarion, I agree she wasn't the best player because she played with her heart. A heart will doom most players of this game. While I agree she will not be remembered as one of the better players in Survivor history. I would bet you $, that Sugar would make the next version of all-stars. She probably ranks right up there in the top five memorable females ever. Honestly 99% of the past survivors are not remembered a couple seasons later. Even her name....Sugar...makes her memorable. Sugar easily is one of the top five most memorable players ever. She made it to the finale. She achieved second in the popularity contest for $100,000. Honestly if you picked one player from this season to go on a Survivor All-Stars it would be Sugar...no doubts in my mind.

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12-16-08, 05:53 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Sugar's season"
Playing with the heart, and playing with the harmones are two different things. Add to that, a certain flair for the dramatic and you have someone who cries at the drop of a hat or on cue (whichever you prefer).

I feel as though Sugar was totally capable of winning the whole thing, but was unwilling to commit physically to the challenges, for whatever reason. Kenny thought that he was "the master manipulator". He needs to take a few pages from Sugar's book.

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12-16-08, 11:16 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Sugar's season"
The catch 22 is that Sugar could not have manipulated and played the other players if she had not played with her heart. Playing from her heart was part of the personna that caused the other players to trust Sugar - when sometimes - Kenny - they whould not have.
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12-16-08, 11:58 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Sugar's season"
LAST EDITED ON 12-16-08 AT 11:59 PM (EST)

I'm starting to think that's it's too bad that this was so much Sugar's season. Her RNO interview shows just how she used Survivor rather than played the game:

http://www.realitynewsonline.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=1&article=article8591.art&page=2

RNO: So then whatís coming up in your immediate future?

Sugar: "I got the best contract in 17 season of Survivor. I can be on TV for anything in January (note: she's been a member of the screen actor's guild for 10 years)

"I played to win America's heart, not the jury's."

"(Ace) has this air about him, heís very condescending and thinks heís better than everybody. I knew people around camp didnít like that and I knew America would like it even less."


"Most of what I did was for entertainment value, since I wanted to get more work."

As I said before Sugar was so fake, we should call her "Sweet and Low".
Corinne wasn't completely wrong to say she needed to stop all the crying since a lot of it was an act.


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12-17-08, 06:56 AM (EST)
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26. "RE: Sugar's season"
She also said in the same interview that her father had recently died and she was having trouble dealing with that, especially when combined with the conditions and playing a game that can create conflict; or as Randy allegedly said "makes good people bad and bad people worse."

Might have been best if she hadn't been cast for this particular season; next season after she had more time to get her emotions together. Did Sound like the tears were for real. And to some extent at least so was the reason for taking Bob and Matty as far as possible; she would rather hang out with them than with the other players. And she was ticked at Crystal for giving Matty a hard time even knowing he was going home.

Does seem clear she was at least as interested in maximizing her acting career as in winning survivor.

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12-17-08, 10:07 AM (EST)
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27. "RE: Sugar's season"
I liked Sugar (or the character she played!) for the most part. She made the season very, very interesting. From reading this interview and the RTVW one, I couldn't help but think that Survivor is very close to jumping the shark. Her playing to the cameras and to America changed the scope of the game. I hope the producers don't continue to cast experienced actors. She viewed this game in an entirely different light than other DAWS who are trying to break into the business, and she had a significant impact on it. It was good once (especially since she wanted a "good" guy to win), but what she did messes with the basic premise of Survivor too much. Survivor is a game and you should want to win it; you shouldn't be on a 39 day audition!

I think most of her crying was authentic. She was still grieving. YMMV



Dash Away by Agman - bobbled by Tribe

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12-17-08, 07:05 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Sugar's season"
Agree players should be trying to win. Course she's not the first who didn't. Seem to remember a few players from early seasons who were there for the experience. And some goofy voting strategies - who was it Sean?
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12-18-08, 07:25 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: Sugar's season"
When it comes to post game interviews I put a lot of stock in how the person really is...

In other words if they played a relatively clean game and did not base their game on deception and lies, I would tend to believe their post game interview. Conversely if their game was largely based on deception and/or lying or backstabbing, I take the interview with a grain of salt.

Sugar's interview is what scores of other players have done in the past--graduate with honors from the "Nostrodamis School of Prophecy"

Much like what is done when a real event occurs and we "back into" Nostrodamis' prophecies...players see what a bad strategic game they played or see how downright pathetic they may have been, and "back into" a half-a$$ strategy to save face. We see that often when a pathetic loser who should have never been casted to begin with says...Oh yeah...my strategy all along was to fly UTR or ride coattails...Yadda, Yadda, Yadda...Blah, Blah, Blah

So let's give Sugar her due...She's a Rhode Scholar from the Nostrodamis School of Prophecy...yeah right...her strategy all along was to further her career. And if you excuse me I think I'll go buy that bridge in Brooklyn...

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12-18-08, 07:38 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Sugar's season"
In an insider clip when she was allied with Crystal and Kenny, (during the season not afterwards) Sugar said she was ready to play for second place. All she hoped for was finishing ahead of Crystal but that Kenny deserved to win. Guess one more blindside made for more entertainment.
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12-17-08, 11:40 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Sugar's season"
Sugar is a Survivor donkey.

If that sounds mean, I'm speaking pejoratively.

For people who play poker regularly, the word "donkey" (or "donk" for short) is a term used for players who are generally unfamiliar with playing the game well. This often leads to impulsive and erratic play from such people, like going All-In at the most random time.

Generally, beating a donkey at poker can be pretty easy if you're patient enough. Still, it's generally hard to use logic when playing against such an opponent, since it can become hard to predict what they'll do. You can't think "no one would raise out-of-position like that with a 9-6 offsuit." Even when you realize they're just playing most every hand they're dealt, it makes narrowing down their holdings difficult. That innocent 2-4-8 flop could've very easily hit them.

Sugar's emotional play made her an extremely unpredictable player, especially in the endgame. People like Kenny will assume that logical being would want to take Bob and/or Matty to the finals. But Sugar's decision-making process isn't based on stuff like that. It's difficult to tell when she'll swing from "we need numbers" voting to "I feel sorry for ______."


Pooky is the Mole.

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12-18-08, 05:00 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Sugar's season"
There are a lot of great posts on this thread.
I agree I don't want to see players who aren't trying to win. And this is supposed to be reality TV, not auditioning for some budding actor. However, I imagine some of what Sugar said in the after interview, as usual for these posthumous interviews, is not entirely honest. Did Sugar really want to help her acting career? Sure. But a million dollar is a million dollars. You can't tell me she was 3 people from the Finals and didn't want to win the million. Considering the ups and downs, and lulls, in an acting career, a million dollars in the bank would help tremendously. It is pretty easy after not winning to tell yourself, "I didn't want to win anyway." Sure.
I would say Randy or Kenny both make better All-Stars candidates than Sugar, especially after that interview.
Season 12-14 were boring and Seasons 15-17 have been good again?? HAHAHA???
Okay. As Patrick Swayzie once said, "Opinions vary."
Fans vs. Favorites was decent though the ending nearly kills it for me. But Seasons 15 and 17 rank among the worst seasons ever. Boring and somewhat despicable casts.
Seasons 13 and 14 were two of the greatest seasons ever, with Cook Islands being the all time tops for me.
A good was made though that many winners have not been the most memorable people from their season. Being memorable and winning are two different things, though most of us still remember the winners and they are the majority of what we talk about.


>

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12-18-08, 07:33 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Sugar's season"

>It is pretty easy after not
>winning to tell yourself, "I
>didn't want to win anyway."
>Sure.

Right on! Actually I submitted my prior post before reading yours but I see we are on the same wavelength.
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12-18-08, 07:47 PM (EST)
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36. "Even when she didn't know the outcome:"
Like I wrote above, read this clip from Sugar during episode #10:

Title of the clip: "Sugar's Two Alliances"

Sugar finds herself in a predicament when she agrees to be in two alliances.

"So, um, Matty and Sue and I for a walk. I tell the others I just wanna make sure they're not gonna flop on us, and we keep the five together. Then they start making an alliance with me, and I'm like 'I already have an alliance with Kenny and Crystal,' but I can't tell them that, because I want to be in the top three no matter what, and how cool is this, that I have two options to do this with. I'm gonna stay true to my word with Kenny. I was thinking of flopping with the other one, pick one of the other group, but I've been wracking my brain about this, and I really think I have a better chance of getting second place if Crystal is in the top three. I have a much better chance. Kenny is definitely gonna win, that's fine, he deserves it. He's become a man on this trip. I've become a liar (laughs), and a traitor, so I don't mind coming in second to Kenny at all. I don't wanna be third, so I think it's gonna be me, Crystal, and Kenny, but we've gotta see what happens, y'know?"


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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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12-18-08, 08:01 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: Even when she didn't know the outcome:"
This crap about "Gee, I only want to be in the Finals" is well...just that. Pure Crap. As Iltarion says, "A million dollars is a million dollars." She starts the game to win that million regardless of what she backs into. When she realized that she was damaged goods in front of a jury she "backs into" some lame rationale.

"Nostradomis School of Prophecy" A dime a dozen.

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12-19-08, 07:08 AM (EST)
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39. "RE: Even when she didn't know the outcome:"
LAST EDITED ON 12-19-08 AT 06:50 PM (EST)

Again, don't think a lot of what we saw from Sugar was acting, regardless of how she might try to spin it in exit interviews. She appeared to be an extremely emotional, somewhat impulsive individual who was also was dealing with grief issues made worse by participating in survivor.

It does make sense that she thought she could not win as it would help explain some of her late game moves which did not seem designed to help her win. So she helped the people she liked the best, or would most like to spend time with stay in the game. Or whom she thought the audience would most want to continue to see in the game.

And was she also thinking that survivor could serve as an audition tape for her acting career. Why not? I don't think it was the biggest reason for her actions, but it could well have contributed to them. One of the things that made Sugar interesting to me was trying to figure out what was motivating her.

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12-19-08, 11:16 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: Sugar's season"
The original message states...

Sugar did more to decide the final five than anyone else...

... and while I agree that she did have the most influence during the end game, she was not playing the game.

For the few episodes Ace had her back, and appeared to be directing her decisions. Then Kenny manipulated her into voting off Ace... again she was not doing her own thinking. She then was able to float as others played out the drama. She was never in danger because the antics of others, whose performance got them a seat on the jury.

When she sided with Matty and Susie, over Kenny and Crystal, it was because of her idea of 'what is fair' more than it was game-playing. She didn't like the way that Crystal was 'bullying' Matty. The same thing happened at F4 ... her season was often about her recently passed father, and Bob was a father figure ... again she was not playing the game, but coming from her idea of 'fairness'.

I agree with Michel that Sugar was a fake ... just an actor. The emotions of her father were probably real enough, but there were likely times the act was overdone. I can understand where Corrine and Randy are coming from ... and for me, they are far more memorable than Sugar. I found Sugar annoying.

The only thing Sugar seemed to contribute was when she told Matty to vote for Crystal ... but then Matty is not an intelligent player. Jiffy had to tell him to settle down or he was going to lose that first endurance challenge against Bob. And he wouldn't listen to Randy when Randy tried to tell him the fool-proof way to win the 'sling-shot' challenge.

Wait a minute, who were we talking about again ??? Someone quite forgettable I guess.

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12-20-08, 12:32 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: Sugar's season"
Sounds like a boring season.

Think she was playing to win until she became convinced she couldn't win.

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