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"Did Parvati invent a new way to play the game successfully?"
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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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05-13-08, 12:43 PM (EST)
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"Did Parvati invent a new way to play the game successfully?"
Be aggressively friendly, flirt with everything on two legs, make multiple conflicting alliances with multiple people, turn on and vote out most threatening alliance partners when able, stir strongly (cackling optional) and agressively defend betrayals at final TC as only way to remove players you might not defeat.
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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to... iltarion 05-13-08 1
 RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to... citywitch 05-13-08 2
   RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to... XXL Survivor 05-13-08 3
       RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to... garcor 05-14-08 4
 RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to... michel 05-14-08 5
   RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to... iltarion 05-14-08 6
       RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to... michel 05-14-08 8
   RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to... garcor 05-14-08 7
   RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to... XXL Survivor 05-15-08 9
       RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to... michel 05-15-08 10

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-13-08, 04:41 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to play the game successfully?"
Not even close. The strategy of being friendly with everyone and making as many alliances as possible, and then switching alliances to vote off threats and stay in power was patented by Rob Cesternino in Amazon. Copied by Johnny Fairplay with glee. Used again by Rob M in the first All Stars, and then perhaps perfected by Danni Boatwright in Guatemala. Todd even played a similar game in China. Really, the only difference between Parvati and Rob C is that she uses flirting to ingratiate herself while Rob C used his sense of humor. Both, ironically, have an easier time making friends with the opposite gender, which is a strength they both capitalized on.
Really, it probably can all be traced back even farther to Brian, who was the first to set up multiple F2 alliances to control the game. Everyone thought they were going to end with him. But at the end, he simply won the ICs and picked the F2 he wanted. It is a somewhat simple but brilliant strategy that no one has quite executed as perfectly as he. The only difference now is that people, like Todd and Parvati, are making F3 alliances instead of F2 ones.

>

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citywitch 250 desperate attention whore postings
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05-13-08, 04:46 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to play the game successfully?"
I'll take a stab at this...in defense of Parvati, I don;t think she made conflicting alliances with multiple people. Alliance 1)Amanda & Cirie within the alliance including James & Ozzy 2)Post swap - still allied with James & added Alexis & Natalie while telling them she would remain allied with Amanda 3)post merge - alliances didn't change

I think post merge the most threatening players are always the target, whether they are part of your alliance or not. Ultimately, to be the sole survivor, you have to defeat or betray everyone else.

Perhaps Parvati's ultimate success was casting her alliance net wide enough to bond with enough people who basically agreed with and understood her style of play.

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XXL Survivor 131 desperate attention whore postings
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05-13-08, 05:28 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to play the game successfully?"
The flirtation aspect is kind of new. Cannot think of anyone else that flirted with multiple people so effectively, though in a strange way Rob M. used this (on one person per season) two different times (Sarah and Amber). As far as the other stuff (swithcing alliances), its been done 20-30 times with varying effectiveness. Certainly nothing new. Like most winners, I don't give her any genius credit for this. After all, Eliza and Jason both voted for her but it almost seemed like a tossup for them. I do give her credit though for securing the votes of Erica and Natalie (especially Natalie where she did use flirtation in a way never used before on Survivor).
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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 06:50 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to play the game successfully?"
So much for my theories.

I will argue though that no one has created, maintained and exploited as complex a series of alliances as successfully as Parvati did this year. She had two final four and a final three alliance going simultaneously; they were conflicting as Amanda was the only other player in all three alliances and Parvati played well enough to win the season (unlike most previous players who tried creating multiple alliances.) Alexis and Natalie from her second final four alliance were key in the biggest move of the season, voting out Ozzy. And Parvati was loyal to the alliance she claimed was her first; final three of P/A/C.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 11:35 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to play the game successfully?"
Yes, Parvati did play the game in a new way but not the one you mentioned:

Being friendly with everyone originated with Tina in the Outback. Danni improved the tactic by using every opportunity to create bonds. Earl also used that friendly approach in Fiji.

Being a flirt was successfully used by Jenna in the Amazon.

The multiple alliances started with Brian, was improved on by Chris and perfected by Todd who layered his alliances rather than have them being in conflict. Amanda was his core ally but Courtney was added as protection, keeping a weaker player than himself. Aaron was the necessary muscle that was first replaced with Jean Robert after the switch and by James after the merge. Denise and Frosti were added mainly as tools to have numbers and, as such, were disposable.

Parvati played a game that paralleled Todd's in many aspects:

- At the reunion, Parvati said Jonathan outed her as a threat on day 1, forcing her to play aggressively. Jean Robert had outed Todd on day 1 also.

- Her alliances were also layered, Amanda at its core, Cirie added so that the women would have the numbers against the 2 guys. James and Ozzy were needed to have the numbers against Jonathan. Nat and Lexie were also added as an additional layer or a fallback option.

- Jonathan's medevac made her road easier just like Aaron being the victim of a switch simplified Todd's game.

- Both made strong connections with members of the other tribe after the switch, Nat and Lexie on one season, Frosti on the other. This was Parvati's most brilliant move. As she said: "Nat and Lexie would be more loyal to me while Amanda and Cirie would also be closer to me."


- Both got rid of their archrivals, Eliza and Jean Robert, before ending the pagonging. Both still got their votes at the end!

- Both used their ally's plan to get rid of the strong guy with the idol. Cirie came up with the plan in Micronesia just like Amanda had done in China. Parvati and Todd both jumped aboard even if it was riskier for them.

- Parvati and Todd had great final TC performances where they didn't back down while Amanda cracked in both cases.

But Parvati did play the game like no one else: Jonathan said it: "Parvati plays the game as if it was a cocktail party and she's good at it. That's what makes her so dangerous."

Lexie explained that "Parvati is extremely gregarious." That's what many missed on her first season and was key to this season: As much as she was a flirt, Parvati was very close to Jenny, Rebecca, Candice and most of the women of the Cooks. Being able to form the first successful women's alliance shouldn't have been surprising. That also was new.


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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 05:20 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to play the game successfully?"
Great points, as usual, michel, and congrats on having your girl, Parvati, win. Even if you say you are not a fan of hers, her win still vindicates your ability to analyze the editing. So, props to you. I didn't think she COULDN'T win, but I did think the editing was leaning towards Amanda and Cirie at the end. I have no problem admitting that I am a fan of Amanda, and I've already made clear my disappointment that she didn't win.
Of the majority of your points, I don't agree with the statement that Parvati had a great TC or that Amanda cracked. Amanda cracked versus Todd, but not this time around. The only time she cracked was at F4 when she got into the needless and unfortunate for her argument with Cirie, where Cirie was a 100% right. Amanda also over did it with the emotions at F3, but I don't doubt her emotions were sincere. It is sad to me when a woman can't even get away with crying without annoying people. Regardless, Amanda did a good job in this FTC. She stuck to her guns. 3 of the jury members went on rants instead of asking questions, and the other 5 were clearly already decided. I felt the only mistake Amanda made during FTC was when answering Cirie's question, but Cirie said afterwards that her vote was pretty much already going to Parv.
Lastly, if Parvati plays the game "like a cocktail party," then it is an awfully cutthroat party where the men want to watch their backs. Not much of a "party" in my mind though I do get the gist of what Jonathan is getting at. I agree with Jonathan that Parvati is very dangerous in the game. I would say two things about that though. One is that Parvati's gregarious game somewhat relies on WHO is at the party. Could you imagine Parvati in Chuay Ghan? Hahaha... or Kucha? or Koror? Parvati's manipulations with men don't seem to extend past her ability to flirt with them. She needs young, libido-driven men and young women to work with. Put her in the wrong party, and her game goes no where. The tribal switch throwing her in with Alexis, Natalie and Jason is what won this game for her. Put her on Malakal still and this is probably Amanda's game. And secondly, I wouldn't say that Parvati is the first to play the game "like a cocktail party." You could say that Jenna M played basically the exact same game. She wasn't as strategical about it, but her strategy of "making friends and taking them to the end" is basically the same thing. Also, I would say that Danni treated the game like a cocktail party and is the superior host. Danni relates well to men and does not have the same limitations as Parvati seems to have in that area. Danni's party would be less affected by the guest list than Parvati's.

>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 06:58 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to play the game successfully?"
Thank you, Iltarion. You know that I love to analyze the editing of this show so it's nice to know I can read the fine details once in a while!

As far as this is concerned:
>"Amanda cracked versus Todd, but not this time around."

Both Cirie and Eliza have commented on Amanda's answer not sounding genuine at FTC. Eliza pointed out that we didn't see all the tears she used before pulling the HII to boot Alexis so that when she said she was always genuine at TC, they didn't believe her.

Jan would never have picked Parvati to go on CG. On Koror, she only need outlast Willard and then Tom better watch his back because she would have agreed with Steph's proposed women's alliance. Kucha lost so Parvati could only have improved that team!

I see your point about Jenna and Danni. I guess I see Jenna playing more like a High School dance where she stuck to her clique. Danni played like she was one of the guys enjoying a tailgate party. Not quite the same mood.


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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 06:56 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to play the game successfully?"
LAST EDITED ON 05-15-08 AT 06:59 AM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 05-15-08 AT 06:52AM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 05-15-08 AT 06:49AM (EST)

Understand your point about how Todd played, though I think Parvati had it harder than Todd. There were more good, experienced players in Micronesia than in China, and Parvati had to deal with being switched from one tribe to another during the game.

Also don't compare James to Ozzy as a player. James might have won on personality if he had made it to final two, but hardly on gameplay. Ozzy appeared to be controlling his tribe, is a better challenge performer and had an actual strategy that went beyond "stay with the plan."

Did think Todd's final TC better than Parvati's but Parvati's game before final TC better than that played by Todd.

Thought both Danni and Jenna would likely have been gone if not for IC victories they won. Parvati remained in the game because she made alliances with smarter players.

Don't think Amanda cracked at final TC either in Micronesia. It was harder for her to explain her actions because not all of them were as singlemindedly aimed at winning the game.

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XXL Survivor 131 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 09:18 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to play the game successfully?"
>
>The multiple alliances started with Brian,
>was improved on by Chris
>and perfected by Todd who
>layered his alliances rather than
>have them being in conflict.
>Amanda was his core ally
>but Courtney was added as
>protection, keeping a weaker player
>than himself. Aaron was the
>necessary muscle that was first
>replaced with Jean Robert after
>the switch and by James
>after the merge. Denise and
>Frosti were added mainly as
>tools to have numbers and,
>as such, were disposable.
>
>Parvati played a game that paralleled
>Todd's in many aspects:
>
>- At the reunion, Parvati said
>Jonathan outed her as a
>threat on day 1, forcing
>her to play aggressively. Jean
>Robert had outed Todd on
>day 1 also.
>
>- Her alliances were also layered,
>Amanda at its core, Cirie
>added so that the women
>would have the numbers against
>the 2 guys. James and
>Ozzy were needed to have
>the numbers against Jonathan. Nat
>and Lexie were also added
>as an additional layer or
>a fallback option.
>

Good analysis, but it might be a little over analytical. I don't think pulling in Cirie was done with some endgame womens' numbers advantage in mind. It was just done for short-term gain (get 5 vs. the 4 of Jon/Ami/Eliza/Yau so you are part of the five that make it to merge). Remember that the 2 couples (incl. Pavarti) actually considered Fairplay as their fifth before realizing his head wasn't in the game (which I could have told them would happen before the start). I agree Parv made good moves, the chief of which was getting "close" with Natalie and Alexis. Securing their votes was key to her.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 11:47 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Did Parvati invent a new way to play the game successfully?"

>I don't think pulling in
>Cirie was done with some
>endgame womens' numbers advantage in
>mind. It was just
>done for short-term gain (get
>5 vs. the 4 of
>Jon/Ami/Eliza/Yau so you are part
>of the five that make
>it to merge).

Remember this scene:

(It was quite a nice editing trick to have that shot immediately after Cirie had said: "I should be carried on the chariot-type thing" which was the title of episode #3. I guess that was the closest chariot-type thing they had!)

Parvati and Amanda got Cirie to commit to their side by honestly telling her they wanted a Final 3 with her. They said they couldn't beat Ozzy and James at the end. Cirie went with them because it was a better offer than Jonathan's 5th wheel.


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