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"Another failure to close in TC"
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XXL Survivor 131 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 08:25 AM (EST)
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"Another failure to close in TC"
Once again, Amanda entered TC as the projected favorite to win but lost at least one vote based on her answers to juror questions. Cirie gave her the opportunity to pay tribute to Cirie. She could have said she kept Pavarti because she feared Cirie's ability to win jurors over since Cirie was so eloquent, respected, etc., etc. Instead she answered the question literally saying why Pavari was "more deserving" than Cirie. Bad move!!! It was the last thing Cirie wanted to hear.
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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Another failure to close in TC nailbone 05-12-08 1
   RE: Another failure to close in TC Estee 05-12-08 2
       RE: Another failure to close in TC Wacko Jacko 05-12-08 3
           RE: Another failure to close in TC Estee 05-12-08 4
               RE: Another failure to close in TC Brownroach 05-12-08 14
                   RE: Another failure to close in TC Estee 05-12-08 16
                       RE: Another failure to close in TC Spanky68 05-12-08 19
       RE: Another failure to close in TC nailbone 05-12-08 8
 RE: Another failure to close in TC Max Headroom 05-12-08 5
 RE: Another failure to close in TC mia rules18 05-12-08 6
   RE: Another failure to close in TC canuklady 05-12-08 11
 RE: Another failure to close in TC Colonel Zoidberg 05-12-08 7
   RE: Another failure to close in TC leenga 05-12-08 9
       RE: Another failure to close in TC Snidget 05-12-08 10
 RE: Another failure to close in TC CattyChat 05-12-08 12
   RE: Another failure to close in TC citywitch 05-12-08 20
       RE: Another failure to close in TC grit 05-12-08 21
 RE: Another failure to close in TC cambo 05-12-08 13
   RE: Another failure to close in TC Brownroach 05-12-08 15
       RE: Another failure to close in TC SurvivorBlows 05-12-08 17
           Cirie interview excerpts SurvivorBlows 05-12-08 18
               RE: Cirie interview excerpts garcor 05-12-08 22
 RE: Another failure to close in TC iltarion 05-13-08 23
 RE: Another failure to close in TC Lucid 05-13-08 24

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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 09:28 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
Exactly my thoughts. and not only did she lose Cirie's vote, she basically made Parv's case for her of why Parv should win.



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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 09:34 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
I agree Amanda's answer to Cirie hurt her with a juror or two -- but you'd have a hard time convincing me that Cirie's vote was still up for grabs when she started her question. I think she came up intending to cast for Parvati and just wanted to see how much of a tongue bath she could coax from both of them before she wrote the name down.
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Wacko Jacko 2434 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 10:35 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
Oh, come on. How can you actually know if Cirie was going to vote Amanda over Paverti before the questioning. You can't.
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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 10:39 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
Since I think Cirie was voting Parvati all along, the question's halfway moot. But can I know as an absolute? No. Were there a few really strong hints in that direction? Just a couple.
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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 01:23 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
Since I think Cirie was voting Parvati all along

As a player who prided herself on being manipulative, I think Cirie was pissed that Amanda manipulated her on the Alexis boot. Then when Amanda snapped at Cirie for saying she felt like she was at the bottom of the alliance, I think Amanda landed permanently on Cirie's sh!tlist.



Bleauin' ze bleus eaué, coeurtesie oeuf agmanne

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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 01:38 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
Throw 'And how dare you take Parvati instead of me!' on top of that and you've got my reading of the situation. I honestly feel Cirie was locked in going into TC.
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Spanky68 8092 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 04:47 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
I so seldom get to say this: I agree with Estee on this one. Cirie wanted to vote Parv, but could've been swayed by a quality suckup.


Agman made this fancy sig for me

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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 11:42 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
I think she came up intending to cast for Parvati and just wanted to see how much of a tongue bath she could coax from both of them before she wrote the name down.

Or, my other thought, which is that Cirie was going to cast for Parv, and she manipulated Amanda into convincing others in that direction, too.


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Max Headroom 10028 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 10:53 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
I agree, Amanda choked at final tribal council. Again.

If there were any undecided voters left going into final TC, Parvati reached out and grabbed their votes with her decisive answers. She admitted that not everyone liked her along the way, but justified it by saying that she came into her second-try season determined to be more aggressive. And she made it work.

Amanda, on the other hand, tried to play the under-the-radar nice girl who made no enemies, and she was roasted for it, especially by Alexis. The perception amongst the jurors was that she was the pretty face who coasted along and let others (Cirie, Parvati) do the heavy lifting. And Amanda did nothing to dispute that opinion. Apologizing to Erik was disastrous, and she missed a golden opportunity to tell Cirie that she picked Parvati at F3 because Cirie would've stomped her at final TC.

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mia rules18 409 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 10:56 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
Exactly what I was thinking the whole TC. I felt like she was going in more confident than last year and had played a good game, that maybe she had it in the bag, but nope. Also, thought bringing Parv rather than Cirie was a good choice, since Cirie is a good talker. Her answer to Cirie was stupid, but I do believe Cirie was going to vote Parv anyway. What surprised me the most was Eliza...maybe she could have sucked up to Eliza a bit more and secured her vote...then we would have had a tie...
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canuklady 57 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 12:03 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
I think Amanda played a great game. She certainly proved that she was the strongest physical player of the women and perhaps that was part of the problem. I also believe that for the women jury members at least, their minds were made up on who they were voting for before they even walked in to the final TC. I truly don't believe it would've mattered what Amanda's answers were.

As for Erik..lol...I felt like asking someone to stick a pacifier in his mouth.

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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 11:31 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
Let's see...to add to my list of perennial chokers...

1. The Chicago Cubs
2. The Detroit Red Wings Crossing our fingers...
3. Zoidberg at an open casting call
4. The prosecution in the OJ case
5. Amanda Kimmel at a final TC

Let's just say I'm glad she's going into design and not, say, law. I wouldn't want her defending me.


GO RED WINGS!

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leenga 34 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 11:53 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
so besides Ozzy, who else voted for Amanda?
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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 11:55 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
Answer posted in the ECST for the episode

see here
http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/6993.shtml#60

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CattyChat 3379 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 12:35 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
Yes, it appeared Amanda again failed to sell herself to the jury, by talking about the challenges she fought hard to win, finding the idol & delivering a dramatic performance at that TC before whipping it out, and her "loyalty." If she would have sold herself better, she may have been able to get another vote -- at least Eliza's vote, possibly.

However, like in China, Amanda's game was lost waaaay before FTC. Again, Amanda didn't make enough personal connections with other contestants and stayed mostly in her own inner circle. Parvati befriended and flirted with everyone with a pulse. Parvati may have pissed off some people, but she played a far better social game by hanging out with everyone.

A few people brought up that they believed Amanda was a "fake pageant girl" and they didn't believe her emotions were true. If Amanda allowed more people to get to know her, maybe they wouldn't have seen her as "fake."

So, Amanda repeated the same mistake she made in China, by not letting people get to know her and forming friendships.

I feel a little sorry for Amanda, as I think she's nicer and more sincere than she comes across as, but she should have learned from China and she obviously didn't.

Now her and Ozzy can commiserate together in their belief that they were robbed at Survivor. (I just know that's ONE of the things they are doing together.)


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citywitch 250 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 06:33 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
I feel a little sorry for Amanda, as I think she's nicer and more sincere than she comes across as, but she should have learned from China and she obviously didn't.

I wonder if she didn't have time to learn from China. I think that being in back-to-back seasons took its toll on Amanda - she was literally falling apart before that final TC. And having "a glazed look on her face"? who can blame her?

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grit 4866 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 07:53 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
I'm not sure of the timing, but would Amanda have had time to watch her season of Survivor on TV or was she in Palau Micronesia when China aired? If she didn't see the full edited version of her season, she might not be aware of how she was perceived by the other players - a disadvantage for her.


Handcrafted by RollDdice

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cambo 286 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 12:46 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
I was thinking about why Amanda does so poorly at the tribal councils and maybe it has to do with her beauty pageant experience, where you're trained on how not to offend anyone and give basic and broad answers during those interview questions.

At tribal council you have to be both brutally honest and self-deprecating. Playing pollyanna and not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings isn't going to do it. Although I believe Amanda is sincere, many people at TC see it as being phony.

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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 01:27 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
Jenna Morasca had beauty pageant experience and she acquitted herself well at the final TC (of course, she was unevenly matched since no one really liked Mateo anyway).



Bleauin' ze bleus eaué, coeurtesie oeuf agmanne

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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 03:32 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
>Jenna Morasca had beauty pageant experience
>and she acquitted herself well at the final TC

Danni Boatwright too.

And anyone participating in this thread should definitely read this morning's Reality TV World interviews with Amanda, Cirie, and Natalie as they get posted -- there's answers (OK, maybe alleged answers, given it is all in hindsight) to lot of the above in there. Parvati's interview should be happening any minite.

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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 03:44 PM (EST)
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18. "Cirie interview excerpts"
LAST EDITED ON 05-12-08 AT 03:44 PM (EST)

Chris is still transcribing it, but here are few teasers:

Reality TV World: So if everybody thought Parvati was beatable, what happened?

Cirie: Parvati was good with her answers . Amanda's answers weren't true. Even the question I asked -- why Parvati over me -- and to say that Parvati's game was better than mine? People were there! (laughing) They saw it! They were there. So I think Parvati's answers came across more truthful and that's why she won.

Reality TV World: Did Amanda's answer to your question surprise you? What type of answer were you expecting?

Cirie: I kind of anticipated her answering it that way. I knew she would never honestly say, "Well I wanted to take Parvati because I think I can beat her." I wanted the jury to see that.

...

Reality TV World: Did Amanda's poor answer -- and Parvati's good answer -- to your question determine your vote or had you already decided to vote for Parvati?

Cirie: You know what? Honestly speaking? If Amanda would have said, "Cirie, I took Parvati because there's no way I would have beat you. I wouldn't have been able to out-talk you with the jury. Plus everybody here knows that Parvati's done a lot and everyone hates Parvati and everybody wants to take Parvati," then maybe it might have been a slight chance. But honestly, no. I probably would have still voted for Parvati.

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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-08, 08:46 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Cirie interview excerpts"
Thought Amanda's final TC was better this time than in China. Even after their answers, I thought Amanda likely to win because of all the jurors Parvati had a hand in voting out despite previous alliances.

Message I got from the voting is that if you make strong connections with other players while being honest that you will do whatever is necessary to win, many players will still vote for you even if you break alliances. They'll give you credit for strong gameplay. Others will not be as forgiving; e.g. the three jurors who voted for Amanda all said or implied that there were limits to what they were willing to do to win.

Also agree that for large portions of the game Amanda came across as Ozzy's sidekick while Parvati was always actively and obviously playing. And if the biggest single move of the game was the Ozzy blindside, Amanda not only took no part in it, she wasn't even told about it.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-13-08, 03:15 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
Amanda had a MUCH better FTC this time than in China. Really, the only votes she could have swayed were Eliza's and Cirie's, and Eliza didn't ask any questions, and Cirie just said in that interview that the answer probably didn't matter.
Amanda should have answered Cirie thus:
Cirie, Parvati DOESN'T deserve the million more than you. I don't even deserve the million more than you. You played the best strategical game out there. The only reason I am sitting here right now and not you is because I won that last IC and you didn't. The only reason Parvati is sitting here right now and not you is because I made an alliance with Parvati on Day 1. Between the two of you, I don't know that I could beat either of you in front of the jury, but I played a loyal game and so I had to bring Parvati with me or I couldn't sit here and say that I played a loyal game.

THAT would have been the perfect answer. However, as I already said above, Cirie herself said she was probably voting for Parv anyway. I am curious as to why. Personally, I have no clue what Cirie is saying about Amanda's answers not being honest. I don't know what answers she is talking about. Amanda said Parvati played a BOLDER game. That isn't true? Seems true enough to me. I think Cirie is just trying to make her vote look better, which is typical post-game revisionist history. But I am really curious as to why Cirie wouldn't vote for Amanda. I hope it is because she honestly feels Parv played the better game. I hope.

>

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Lucid 6 desperate attention whore postings
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05-13-08, 06:50 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: Another failure to close in TC"
I had a sinking feeling from the final three tribal - you could see her stock plummeting with the jury at the time. She did some serious damage there.

But she seemed perked up the next day, which was encouraging - bring on the final tribal.

However, as soon as she made her opening statement, I said to my wife that she was dead in the water. Historically, the under the radar player is punished and the bold player is rewarded, and given the players this season, this was even more likely to be the case this time. It was almost an identical approach that cost her the game against a similar player in the season before.

As someone else said, I speculate that perhaps had she seen her show, she might have adjusted (the others did).

Also, she had so little to play with - she got a slam or a throwaway question whereas Parvati got a "Parvati, why are you so cool?" question. "Well, I don't know, juror, I just am!" You would think that Ozzy could have served up an easy one for her to hit out of the park as well as declaring his undying love (snore).

I was somewhat surprised that Jason was already set for Parvati (or it seemed so, he was one of the ones who gave Amanda a pretty much nothing question, and Parvati a straightforward one), expected his vote to be up for grabs. Perhaps he believed she saved him with the deal at the immunity when they blindside Ozzy instead of voting him, and Amanda still voted against him and was therefore bad. He did think a stick was the II so that's plausible.

I wonder if some posters gave too much credit to Amanda ... she made some slick moves, but didn't try to use them to justify why she should win. Ah well.

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