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"Flaming of Newbies"
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snoocharoo 1 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"

05-09-02, 05:03 PM (EST)
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"Flaming of Newbies"
<<All I know for sure is SB is picking up newbies like mad every day, and there's no end in sight to the headaches caused by the inevitable clunker in every busload. . .>>


I apologize in advance if this is not the place to bring this up, please advise me where I should post it and I will be more than happy to re-post it there.

What is up with this Us-vs-Them mentality of some of the people on this board? In the past two or three weeks there has been a prevailing anti-newbie sentiment on this board because of 1 or 2 ignorrant neophytes who didn't play be the rules and a clique of regulars who feel the need to bash every newbie that posts. I have been coming here to this board for a while, in fact I visit daily, I don't power-post so my "numbers" aren't in the triple and quad digits but occasionally I have something of value to contribute as well as a right to vote. These snide comments, the negativity of the regulars and the constant flaming of anybody who does not share the myopic viewpoint of certain individuals has just gotten to be a little more that I care to tolerate. I came to SB because it used to be the nicest and most user-friendly of all the boards...however my opinion is quickly changing.

I'm asking that the mods PLEASE do something about this idiotic cold war that has erupted between "Us and Them" Everyone who is a member has the right to post so long as they follow the guidelines. Flippant, derogatory remarks like the above is not going to ANYTHING to increase the number of new members here and it's only going to serve to give SB a poor image in the internet community.

Please feel free contact me to discuss this matter in greater detail.


  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Thoughts... sleeeve 05-09-02 1
   RE: Thoughts... Kokoro 05-09-02 2
   a flaming eeeeeeee shakes the clown 05-14-02 10
 RE: Flaming of Newbies Drive My Car 05-09-02 3
   RE: Flaming of Newbies George Tirebiter 05-10-02 5
 RE: Flaming of Newbies Jizzy 05-10-02 4
 Thanks for the replies. snoocharoo 05-10-02 6
   RE: Thanks for the replies. Femme 05-11-02 7
       RE: Thanks for the replies. George Tirebiter 05-13-02 9
 RE: Flaming of Newbies Outfrontgirl 05-13-02 8

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sleeeve 3456 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"

05-09-02, 09:22 PM (EST)
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1. "Thoughts..."
This is me speaking as a member of this site, not as a moderator. I'd love for anyone else to chime in with their own opinions.

Recently, on Off Topic, there was a thread where someone asked what it took to lose your newbie status. The overwhelming response from all of our members is that you're no longer a newbie when you no longer feel like one. There are people who have been here only a few months that I already consider as regulars, because they act like it. They're friendly, they play nice, and they have fun.

There are others that have been here nearly as long as I have, that have confessed to me that they still feel like newbies.

In my experience, the "us vs. them" attitude is something that newer members always feel in any social situation. There are inside jokes (like thresd), friendships, etc. that have been formed before you showed up, and it's tough to see how you fit in. Believe it or not, I was once a "newbie" here myself. There are hundreds of posters that remember when I started posting (well... not exactly when, but you get the idea).

So... to drive at your real question, what does it take to break down the walls? Well... it's simple. Those that follow the guidelines of each forum, and try to have fun are rapidly accepted. Just ask some of our newer "regulars" like FesterFan1 or Ashmo...

On the other hand, some people need gentle reminders before they start to fit in. This site runs as a well-oiled machine. We have a place for bashing, a place for praise, and a place for off topic drivel (which is among the most fun!)

The Spoilers forum is, by far, the most "strict" forum, only because we have no choice about how we handle it. We get thousands of hits a DAY to that forum, and no one wants to wade through 100s of posts about the exact same thing.

(Stealing an analogy that was posted recently somewhere... my apologies to whoever originally said it): Imagine if you showed up at your supermarket, and everything was in disarray. The aisles stacked at random, the meat and the bread mixed together, the cereal on a different aisle every time you visit. You'd never shop at that Supermarket again.

Perhaps the reason that our longer-term members are frustrated is that they remember the "good old days" when the Spoiler Forum was more organized. However, a quick peak at the archives will reveal that we're not really more or less organized now than we were then... it's selective memory, because as you lose your newbie status, and start to fit in with the site, you become protective of it.

I guarantee that there's not a single person on this site that doesn't want new blood. We're excited to be growing. But you have to realize that some of us have watched this site grow up. We raised it from a puppy, and we get a little irked when someone mistreats it.

I remember my own initiation to the Spoilers Board. I was flamed... MUCH worse than anything I've seen recently (back then, there was no zero tolerance policy, and only one moderator). A wise board member once said that one of two things will happen when you try to correct someone. They will either learn from their mistakes, and become a valuable member of society, or they will run away.

This board is a lot like that. When new people show up, we want you to stay. We love the new perspectives... but... we want you to fit in, too... and frankly if you're the type to run away, then it was probably better that you weren't here in the first place.

A final thought on fitting in: When you act like you fit in, you will. Trust me. Try it... you'll like it. (Oh... and Off Topic is also a great place to fit in, but be warned... you will become addicted.)

You never know what might be up my sleeeve...


Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"

05-09-02, 09:57 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Thoughts..."
<<(Stealing an analogy that was posted recently somewhere... my apologies to whoever originally said it): Imagine if you showed up at your supermarket, and everything was in disarray. The aisles stacked at random, the meat and the bread mixed together, the cereal on a different aisle every time you visit. You'd never shop at that Supermarket again.>>

Of course this doesn't explain enigmas like the SS EZboards

Now let us never speak of S3 again.


shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"

05-14-02, 10:26 PM (EST)
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10. "a flaming eeeeeeee"

> There are hundreds
>of posters that remember when
>I started posting

....yeah, I got the date circled in red on my calendar. Several of us on the board are currently circulating a petition to make that date a national holiday, replacing Independence Day, Memorial Day, Easter, Christmas or some other holiday that now seems trite and meaningless standing next to The Day Sleeeeve Started Posting on SB

Geez, and I thought I had the biggest ego on the board

>I remember my own initiation to
>the Spoilers Board. I
>was flamed... MUCH worse than
>anything I've seen recently

....oh relax you big baby, it wasn't that bad. And if remember correctly, you deserved it.


Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-09-02, 11:34 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Flaming of Newbies"

I meant to answer this as soon as I saw it, but Surivivor was starting in 3 minutes ( you understand) Also I hoped someone wiser then I would post first. ( I got my wish, Sleeeve speaks much better then I do)

I wanted to say that way back when, they used to call me the Official Greeter of SB. It was an easy job then, only 5 or 10 new people a week. The reason I got the job was that I thought all new posters should be welcomed and greeted, and everyone should be given a chance. Others believed that too,(including the webmaster) But I got the job because I said it out loud, not because I was any nicer then anyone else here.
Not all Surivior sites were as Welcoming as this one, and I felt we should make something of that, we should make a point of being different.

The thing is, we were always different. We did give New members a chance, we did welcome new ideas. Webby has a different kind of site, because of how he has set it up, The decisions he has made here, the people he has chosen, how he has wanted this place to be. The whole place is set up by Webby ( Survivor Blows) The whole tone is his, right down to the members he has made moderators.
I was never the only person who welcomed New members, we all did. It was the way it was, as it is the way it is now.

This could be like any other Survivor site out there, and there are quite of few of them. The reason this site is different, is in how it is managed, and the people who make up this community.
Do the old time members seem proud of this place? Well, yes we do, because we are.

But always remember that that the only difference between the numbers beside my name and the numbers beside yours, are that I happened to find this site sooner then you did, or chose to post more often then you did. My numbers give me no special status.
If I violate the rules, or piss on Webby's walls, I would get banned from this site. Same as a poster with 10 or 20 posts.
Ok, I have been here awhile I may get a warning first, but if you've noticed, most people get a warning.

If you have not been formaly welcomed, let me take this oppurtunity ( I don't get then much anymore) To Officially Welcome you to Survivor Blows. I hope you enjoy it here, I hope you become a valued member of this site. The best advice I can give you and every other new poster, is to read, see how we do things, see our history.

We do welcome new people, we do want new opinions. We don't want morons who have nothing to give or get from this place.
Survivor Blows is a community, and I think that alone makes us special.

Sleeeve said it has to do with your comfort level, when YOU stop feeling like a newbie, and start feeling like a member. I couldn't agree with him more. Unfortunately there are some people who never fit, but that is only for them and the management to decide.


George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"

05-10-02, 10:06 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Flaming of Newbies"
Since snoocharoo chose to dredge up a quote I buried in the vote thread, I felt I should respond. . .

Fortunately, sleeeve and bug spoke to the issue very well--and I let myself sleep on the issue--so there isn't a lot more to add.

While you seem to focus on the frustration level, you are missing the CAUSE of it--and that is the incredible number of new people who don't seem to feel obliged to figure out how to fit in before they insinuate themselves into the community. Some seem to think the best introduction is to start inane threads on the very strict Spoilers forum, some think the best way is to post EVERY thought that pops into their heads, wherever they happen to be at the moment--and face it, anyone who racks up almost 400 DAWs in less than a month can't possibly have THAT much to contribute. . . In reality, some have "contributed" little more than drivel and immense sigs. Both extemes indicate someone with questionable social skills--if not emotional stability--and I don't think it's unreasonable to insist we be spared.

This board was founded on the premise that everyone would be welcome to join--but not without expectation that they would behave themselves. To say that our intolerance toward a few ninnies and feebs would taint the reputation of SB is ridiculous; on the contrary, I think that letting our Spoilers forum (especially) be overtaken in the name of "tolerance" does the reputation a much greater disservice and ruins its credibility among the Spoiling community. If having standards is wrong, I can live with the "stigma" of elitism. . .

This resentment by a few thin-skinned, clueless, and sometimes almost militant new posters also misses the fact that we have VERY happily integrated a large number of "newbies" who DID have the wherewithal and maturity to figure out how to fit in and contribute their unique voices here. The fact that people with the most to feel defensive about are being the most vocal doesn't necessarily mean they merit the most attention.

The fact is that I have made a great effort to simply skip over posts by people who irritate me, and once I realized that meant I was skipping a MAJORITY of things, I reached critical mass and spoke up. I was shocked at the number of private messages I received THANKING me for giving voice to what has apparently been a widespread frustration. If I offend you, I suggest that it either means I've said something that hit home--or maybe you simply need to skip MY posts.


Soemtimes you can observe a lot by watching. - Yogi Berra


Jizzy 2053 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator"

05-10-02, 01:10 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Flaming of Newbies"
Oh My Heck!! CraZZy Uncle jiZZy is reading the HELP forum tonight...and this is like the 4th time I have seen this subject posted recently (although it seems to be ALL about the Spoiler forum).

Dude/Chick...whomever u might be...just a little hint here...I went through the same BS as you are going through right now when I first came on board. YEP!!! There are some DAMN RUDE people on that forum, but there are also some pretty good folks too. Each has their own way of stating things...some just seem more human than others (you the Earth is going to come to an end if you make a mistake). Learn by the mistakes of others. Survivor has grown in popularity since the inception of SB, and yes, there are going to be MANY more new members and FANS of series. We all go through a learning process here. People give Shakes alot of crap for "what they consider flaming", but if you read his insight and thought process behind it...he makes alot of sense. TRUST me on that one..I went through ALOT of crap with the Clown (just search the archives ) but others flame with the "message" that they are SUPERIOR to others without anything to back up their reasoning, other than to repeat the same old crap everytime (of which I always thought..dont like it..dont respond..hence the BUMP), but hey...thats just me..and I dont use my noggin' on a regular basis...just common sense.

But, hey...look at the positive (well..just a hell of alot less negative) side of it..when you get tired of it, and wanna have some fun (not to mention the offseason), pop on over to the Off Topic forum..we have a BLAST there...and there are very few sticklers over there..and it's pretty laid back . We have all kinds of fun..Strange Q's, 80's music, Porn Screen name it..we got it! Pretty much a family over there on OT. So..if it gets to hot to handle (but DO read and understand their guidelines)..come on over to the Darkside..aka Off Topic! We all love Survivor too, otherwise we wouldn't be here. Just know what it's like to be "bitten", and sometimes a break is good.


snoocharoo 1 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"

05-10-02, 04:33 PM (EST)
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6. "Thanks for the replies."
First of all thanks for responding, I appreciate the welcome and hope I haven't pissed anyone off too much.

As I said before I'm not a newbie, I have newbie #'s because I choose to post selectively or only post what I think is relative to the thread. I do feel comfortable here and enjoy the site immensely. Even I get frustrated when forced to read through all the inane, guideline violating, posts. Webby definitely DOES NOT have an easy job, I think for the most part people play nice and share the toys because we appreciate what Webby has created here.

I would never suggest compromising the rules of the site for tolerance sake but I do think a certain modicum of patience and understanding is required when dealing with well-intentioned newbies who may not fully understand all the intricacies of the boards (Spoilers in particular)or who are just too excited about sharing their POV that they forget the rules. Making broad statements that generalize every newbie as a headache or clunker in the busload seem to serve no purpose (IMHO) other than to further inflame an already volatile situation, although I will agree that there are a few newbies and long time members who do cause headaches and problems.

Perhaps I didn't articulate very well what I wanted say. My point was it would be a pitiful shame for Survivor Blows to fall into the same ugly scene that most of the other boards (you know who I am refering to) have fallen into. My bad for not offering any solution suggestions when I originally posted, it is a catch-22 and there is no easy fix. Perhaps some kind of moderator initiatiated reminder to the offenders would help circumvent any potential issues.

Again I am truly sorry if I opened a can of worms or offended anyone.

Stephanie aka Snoocharoo
(that would make me a "chick" right? ;o))


Femme 3621 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"

05-11-02, 05:43 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Thanks for the replies."
> Making broad statements that generalize every
>newbie as a headache or
>clunker in the busload seem
>to serve no purpose (IMHO)
>other than to further inflame
>an already volatile situation,

But, no one did make this broad statement. GT said the last part, but she didn't say that every newbie is a headache.

>but I do think a certain modicum of
>patience and understanding is required
>when dealing with well-intentioned newbies
>who may not fully understand
>all the intricacies of the
>boards (Spoilers in particular)or who
>are just too excited about
>sharing their POV that they
>forget the rules.

But, I don't think that's fair. There's tons of newbies on this site every week. If one newbie read the rules and came to the game prepared to play by them, then they will have taken responsibility for themselves. What if EVERY newbie does this? How cool would that be: Instead of having so many "regulars" weeding through the posts of a few bad members (which can add up to a lot of wasted time) why not have every new member check themselves. Being responsible for one person is a whole lot more fair than 100+ people having to police up after 3 or 4 bad apples. (Which there are undeniably several in any bunch.)

My dad used to run a BBS (No, really, this was before this new-fangled "internet". hehe) and there was a zero tolerance rule. You didn't get a warning. Because, back then, you made sure it was something you wanted to do before you signed up. That meant reading the rules and guidelines, feeling out the boards, and getting a taste of the atmosphere before stomping in to force the spotlight on yourself. People don't do that anymore. I made sure this a place I wanted to be before I created my account, and long before my first post, I had read all the thresds (like that Vamp?) on what and when and where to post.

I've been lurking (Hate that word - it sounds so preverted - let's try Wallflowering) since forever, after season 1. I decided to make this site my home. I love to talk about Survivor and speculate (will never be much of a spoiler) and this is the only site I go to. Some of these kids hop from site to site and rejuritate crap and it's so not cool. I can understand "regulars" being annoyed, but even before I signed up for my little account, *I* knew how irritating uneducated newbies were. I try not to be one of them. GT wasn't talking to you, she was talking to those idiots that you admit are frustrating. Do what I do, she may have said newbie, but she was talking about annoying newbies, so I just figured it didn't apply to me (I might be terribly wrong about that, maybe I'm just blissfully ignorant!)


George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"

05-13-02, 08:50 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Thanks for the replies."
>she was talking about annoying newbies, so I just figured it didn't apply to me
LOL--femme, I'm afraid I haven't seen you around Bashers or Spoilers yet--and the OT hasn't been compelling enough to bother with during the season. I have a sneaking suspicion you'd fit in perfectly well--the ones who don't simply don't care enough to even ask questions--or if they do, not liking the answers they get, persist in obnoxious behaviors.

I guarantee there would be a warm welcome to any adult who cared to take the plunge on the other end of the boards--don't wait for next season, cuz this one's about to come to an abrupt end!


Predestination was doomed from the beginning.


Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-13-02, 04:42 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Flaming of Newbies"
Hi snoocharoo and Femme,
I want to say hi, glad you're here!

When you know GT better you'll know that she wasn't talking to you, but to the clueless ones.

I suspect the "Cold War" heated up because the clueless ones had been asked nicely and weren't listening, so it was felt they must need some pointed remarks to hit them over the head repeatedly and maybe give them pause in their reckless starting of junk threads, etc..

Unfortunately, the sensitive people who are paying attention are the ones who take the remarks to heart when the criticisms don't pertain to them, while the clueless people don't even consider that someone might be talking to them.

As an example, one of the recent gripes has been about sig lines that are longer than the posts; there's no reason to overload the threads with the same big pics and links over and over again. Then someone will bump the Guidelines thread who is one of the offenders and tell everyone else to follow the rules.

Minor rant--
A little sig pic is a handy tool to give an extra ID to the post as one reads, and I love people's one-liners that go with, but it's overkill when a big sig comes with every post.

I know that the board had plenty of flaming and disorganization in S2, as sleeeve said, but somehow I managed to read it actively, and the same with S3, but this season I have just lost my patience. Because I have lost the desire to read enough to know what's being said, and you're not supposed to post when you're not up on the conversation, I have pretty much stopped reading AND posting in Spoilers this season, except on the vote thread. I'm not blaming anyone in particular for that; it's my decision to miss out on the good stuff because I don't want to wade through the chaff.

However, if I am going to click on a thread, I will probably look for one started by a Spoiler I know and respect, because I know they will have started a good topic. Of course I will read replies by newcomers, many of whom impress me with their intelligence and knowledge of the show, even though I don't know them yet. Eventually I will know them/you; it does take a certain amount of posts before a name feels familiar, whether in a good or bad way.

It's the threads started by newbies that irk me, and I suspect that's what irks GT. Why? Because the good threads get lost in the shuffle. Spoilers here is not an EZ type board where you slap up any old question. It's a place for good, logical discussion based on credible information, and the good discussion should be at the TOP of Page one.

*Hey sleeeve, I'm proud to loan you my supermarket analogy. The beer is on Aisle Three this week, buried under the clearance items*

Evolution can be mean; there's no 'dumb-ass' vaccine--Jimmy Buffett


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