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"East Coast Update Spoiler thread"
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Conferences Survivor Spoilers Forum (Protected)
Original message

Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:07 PM (EST)
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"East Coast Update Spoiler thread"
Sorry, late....7up challenge....
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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RC Flowerpower 04-04-12 1
 RE: East Coast Update Spoiler threa... michel 04-04-12 2
   RE: East Coast Update Spoiler threa... PepeLePew13 04-04-12 4
       Jay wins IC! PepeLePew13 04-04-12 7
 Post RC.... Flowerpower 04-04-12 3
   RE: Post RC.... michel 04-04-12 5
 Tarzan... WTF? PepeLePew13 04-04-12 6
   Editors... WTF? michel 04-04-12 9
       RE: Editors... WTF? parathor 04-05-12 53
 Pre IC... Flowerpower 04-04-12 8
   RE: Pre IC... michel 04-04-12 10
   RE: Pre IC... PepeLePew13 04-04-12 11
       RE: Pre IC... PepeLePew13 04-04-12 12
           RE: Pre IC... michel 04-04-12 23
               RE: Pre IC... dabo 04-04-12 29
                   RE: Pre IC... michel 04-04-12 31
                       RE: Pre IC... Outfrontgirl 04-05-12 49
                           RE: Pre IC... emydi 04-05-12 60
                               RE: Pre IC... michel 04-05-12 66
   RE: Pre IC... dabo 04-04-12 25
       RE: Pre IC... michel 04-04-12 32
 Post IC.... Flowerpower 04-04-12 13
 The game is afoot! PepeLePew13 04-04-12 14
   RE: The game is afoot! agman 04-04-12 33
 The vote... PepeLePew13 04-04-12 15
   RE: The vote... PepeLePew13 04-04-12 17
 TC Flowerpower 04-04-12 16
   RE: TC michel 04-04-12 18
       RE: TC PepeLePew13 04-04-12 20
           RE: TC michel 04-04-12 21
               RE: TC OllieKat 04-04-12 24
                   RE: TC michel 04-04-12 27
                       RE: TC OllieKat 04-04-12 36
                           RE: TC PepeLePew13 04-04-12 41
                       RE: TC Flowerpower 04-04-12 37
                           RE: TC OllieKat 04-04-12 43
                               RE: TC PepeLePew13 04-04-12 45
                           RE: TC PepeLePew13 04-04-12 44
                               RE: TC Georjanna 04-05-12 47
                                   RE: TC michel 04-05-12 52
                                       RE: TC Georjanna 04-05-12 69
                                           RE: TC michel 04-06-12 71
                                               RE: TC Georjanna 04-11-12 74
                                                   RE: TC michel 04-11-12 75
                                                       RE: TC Georjanna 04-11-12 76
                                                           RE: TC michel 04-11-12 77
                                   RE: TC PepeLePew13 04-11-12 78
                                       RE: TC michel 04-11-12 79
                                           RE: TC PepeLePew13 04-11-12 80
                                               RE: TC michel 04-11-12 81
                       RE: TC tikigirlie 04-04-12 39
                   RE: TC dabo 04-04-12 30
       RE: TC Flowerpower 04-04-12 22
           RE: TC Flowerpower 04-04-12 34
 Next time on Survivor: Flowerpower 04-04-12 19
   RE: Next time on Survivor: agman 04-04-12 26
       RE: Next time on Survivor: michel 04-04-12 28
           RE: Next time on Survivor: Sheldor 04-04-12 38
               RE: Next time on Survivor: michel 04-04-12 42
   RE: Next time on Survivor: PepeLePew13 04-04-12 46
       RE: Next time on Survivor: Karchita 04-05-12 48
   RE: Next time on Survivor: Outfrontgirl 04-05-12 54
       RE: Next time on Survivor: samboohoo 04-05-12 55
           RE: Next time on Survivor: Outfrontgirl 04-05-12 70
               RE: Next time on Survivor: dabo 04-06-12 72
                   RE: Next time on Survivor: Outfrontgirl 04-06-12 73
       RE: Next time on Survivor: Blind Freddy 04-05-12 56
           RE: Next time on Survivor: PepeLePew13 04-05-12 57
               RE: Next time on Survivor: Blind Freddy 04-05-12 58
       RE: Next time on Survivor: parathor 04-05-12 59
           RE: Next time on Survivor: emydi 04-05-12 61
           RE: Next time on Survivor: Blind Freddy 04-05-12 63
       RE: Next time on Survivor: Karchita 04-05-12 64
       RE: Next time on Survivor: michel 04-05-12 67
 Getting back to the RC michel 04-04-12 35
   RE: Getting back to the RC tikigirlie 04-04-12 40
       RE: Getting back to the RC Outfrontgirl 04-05-12 50
       RE: Getting back to the RC Flowerpower 04-05-12 51
   RE: Getting back to the RC emydi 04-05-12 62
       RE: Getting back to the RC Karchita 04-05-12 65
       RE: Getting back to the RC michel 04-05-12 68

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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:14 PM (EST)
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1. "RC"
Come on in...that's a slide....divided into 2 tribes, on his go race down slide then head out into water and grab a puzzle crate and bring it back, as more people come down the slide, they help to get the crates out...winner, 7 up oasis, after noon bar b que, burgers, keylime pie, and clean crisp refreshing 7 up , as much as you can drink....they all get a taste of one bottle, Kat grabs it..., Kim, Jay, Leif, they all pass it around...school yard pick...tribes Jay, Troy, Kat, Alicia, Chelsea, vs Michael, Kim, Sab, Leif, Christina, Tarzan is sitting out....Mike first down and out....but Jay beats him on the run....Jay is getting the crate back, they weigh alot, then troy goes....then Kim....Jay and Troy back first.....Kat goes and falls, then Sab goes, flies down slide, the green team is ahead....but now the yellow tribe is ahead.....neck and neck....neck and neck....green slight lead....Alicia goes for green, Leif goes, flies and face first....all working on final crate, and then yellow falling behind....Christina runs ahead, not helping at all...Troy leading the way for his tribe....puzzle, won or lost right here....they look disorganized....Troy has a plan....and thinks he has something going....Christina's tribe getting momentum....yellow getting close....Christina orchestrates the puzzle and they win!

Green is pissed....they are chanting barbecue....Leif is estatic his first reward, he's estatic...thanks...Chelsea is pissed...show Troy leaving the arena pissed

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:17 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: East Coast Update Spoiler thread"
LAST EDITED ON 04-04-12 AT 08:23 PM (EST)

Hi FP, Just wanted to say that the recap showed Jay repeating his episode 1 confessional about men vs women made me think he'll be the boot. Michael is too hidden to be the target, I think.

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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:24 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: East Coast Update Spoiler thread"
Yeah I noticed that as well. I'm still 50-50 between Jay and Mike for tonight's boot. Kim made a big point of it to say that the six girls have a chance to take full control of the game, so I don't see her being too quick to give up on that just yet and going after either Christina or Alicia any time soon.
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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:37 PM (EST)
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7. "Jay wins IC!"
So, it looks like we have a firm answer who's going tonight, assuming the girls do stick together...
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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:23 PM (EST)
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3. "Post RC...."
Let the plotting begin....

There is a pool and Leif has a confessional....does a flip into the pool and there is a big spread....potato salad, cole slaw, hamburgers they are making on the fgrill, Christina has a confessional - it's amazing, they hold hands and Sabrina says grace, and mentions those that are starving....they eat and moan...Kin says the food is awesome...then see a hanging upside down bat...boys still eating and girls laying down and go to talk...What r you thinking...Sab wants three good people, you and Chelsea....It has to be all girls, says Kim...we have to make this an illusion for Salani...theys say that Mike is going to start a revolution, and we'll tell Troy, Kim says that I want to take out Mike, if we can get a united front and send Mike home, if we all vote together and send all the guys home, we can change the game...

back at camp....Tarzan is with them...should we talk about who's next to go...Troy thinks Christina, Jay agrees, Kat says we take out Michael, he's a threat, Jay confessiona....I don't trust thesee girls, they could take out all the guys...I'm like a teacher to make sure we are all on the same page....the reward peeps come back with a cooler of 7 up...they are so happy....Troy confess: I was nervous when they were gone, I have to keep an eye on those girls, I have to make sure that Kat, Kim and Chelsea want to stick with this Salani group to the very end!

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:25 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Post RC...."
Troy didn't want steak )hard to digest) and neither did Tarzan apparently since he was happy eating wood!

Everybody gets plenty of 7up.

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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:30 PM (EST)
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6. "Tarzan... WTF?"
"I'm sensing some hostility. I'm wondering if you've had some surgery yourself - I'm a plastic surgeon."

(paraphrasing - but that's the gist of the message he said to Chelsea)

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:39 PM (EST)
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9. "Editors... WTF?"
Strange that they would choose to show that. They had plenty of Chelsea vs tarzan material already.
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parathor 250 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-12, 08:45 AM (EST)
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53. "RE: Editors... WTF?"
Not strange - it's a classic "Cut to Commercial" scene from the reunion show. My guess is that it's either for Chelsea or Tarzan winning, or "Love him or hate him, Tarzan was a character."

Since Chelsea has had several other Cut to Commercial scenes, I'm guessing that she wins?

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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:38 PM (EST)
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8. "Pre IC..."
Day 22....Weather is getting cloudy....rainyh, windy....Mike has the confessional...it's a mess outside...they are fortifying the fort/shelter...Chelsea says that the most educated people have no common sense...chelsea confessional....why would some one cut a random piece of bamboo from the wall for the fire, when there is a whole stack of fire wood? Tarzan goes off on them....he says in confessional, that Chelsea is subliminally harrassing me, if I am unfairly maligned, I have to call it out, I know why she doesn't like me, something about her plastic surgery...you had a bad experience with you plastic surgeon...he's talking to me about my boob job, to me it's like kick Tarzan out as soon as possible, but you have to think with your head , as much as I can't stand him, it's about taking people out that are a threat, and he's not a threat...

Troy you should know that Mike is playing with people minds that you are going to win, so we need to get him out....Kim is BEAUTIFUL....Hey, Mike was thowing your name out there. ...Troy hates him...let's don' tell him, we need him to feel secure that he's staying, Troy in confessional : I HATE MIKE, blah blah, I've been worried about him since day one, he should have been gone on day one....Kim is the master mind! WOW

Played Troy like a fiddle


IC...Jiffy says I'll take back the IN from Troy, and troy says not for long....untangle the rope between the ladder to get puzzle bags, and do puzzle....win get 1 in 10 shot at a million...see Troy before the challenge....working way across ladder bridge while you maneuver puzzle bags across the rope....need 4 people for the final round....raining at challenge, Jay, Troy, Mike and Kim fight for 4 spots....Jay is first, Kim is second and moving on....Troy is through, one spot left....Alicia is through....Mike is NOT winning IN!!!

Jay, Troy, Kim, Alicia moving on final round....opening the bags of pieces...60 peices to this puzzle....blocks of wood....a flat square puzzle with lots of angles...Alot of time goes by...if it's not flat it's not right....getting to the end...Kim is close and Alicia is close, Jay is dead last, taking his time and says that he hates puzzles...Alicia's is wrong...Kim is closer....one is not right and find the right spot....Jay is doing well...everyone is still in...Alicia is not right....Jay is going to win??? JAY WINS IMMUNITY! WOW!!! Slow and steady wins the race he says! He was dead last for most of it, out of the blue, came from behind, safe tonight, one of the ret of you is going...see Jay walking away with the IN...

Mike is SO going to be toast....Kim was BRILLIANT! Leave it to a girl to figure out the way to recruit Troy for this!

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:40 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Pre IC..."
Yes, the player being played was Trpyzan and it was so easy to get him to fall for it. Can he wake up before TC? I doubt it.
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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:43 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Pre IC..."
After the commercial, the pre-TC scrum got off with a bang as Kim kept on the full-court press on Troyzan! "Still on with the plan?"
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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:46 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Pre IC..."
... And now Kim isn't thrilled with Chelsea as she unwittingly clued in Jay on the fact that the girls are likely sticking together as one instead of solely the Kim/Troy/Jay/Chelsea grouping.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 09:25 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Pre IC..."
She tells the guy that just won immunity that she wants to get rid of immunty threats and she's the one that talked about common sense!?!?
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 09:51 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Pre IC..."
Well, he was the one talked about hating deadweight to a leader who was just lounging around all day (for all we saw).
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 09:55 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Pre IC..."
Who was it that said Jay should just be pretty and not talk?
Two wrongs don't make a right!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-12, 06:13 AM (EST)
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49. "RE: Pre IC..."
emydi
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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-12, 12:25 PM (EST)
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60. "RE: Pre IC..."

He didn't say a word that we saw at TC...he was just pretty in his little necklance

I wonder if he and Troy talked beforehand. I think Troy filled in Leif right before TC. Interesting that Alicia and Christina voted Tarzan...worried about HI and didn't want to upset Troy with votes if Michael had played one?

Although Alicia, and Christina, have to be thinking they have to do something else...although they will play a passive game...like Jonas said he did in his RTVW interview. They'll regret it just like Jonas.

and Jiffy got played (Tarzaned) not Troyzan

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-12, 05:39 PM (EST)
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66. "RE: Pre IC..."
Hi Emy! I thought it was you but I didn't want to credit the wrong person again!
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 09:46 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Pre IC..."
Played him, snookered him, gotta luv it how that went down. He forgot he's playing Survivor; it ain't Survivor if she ain't lying to you!
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 09:58 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: Pre IC..."
It reminded me a lot of how Danni played Stephenie into eliminating Judd.

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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:47 PM (EST)
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13. "Post IC...."
Jay said he HATES puzzles, and he won! Good for him!

Day 22, Here comes the wind...Mike says nice win Jay...Tongight I have the IN...I feel safe, I definitely think since we knocked out Jonas, let's do the safe thing and knock out Christina so it's even....Kim goes to Troy and say s are we on the same page...Kim says she is straddling 2 alliances, but now it's time for the girls to take over this game...Troy is blinded by his dislike of Mike, so I am using him to get rid of Mike, I am concerned if Troy gets wind of this, I may need these guys for another vote or 2...see them in camp, Chelsea says, Jay, what do you think of getting rid of Mike....you get rid of him then me next, Chelsea says that's not necessarily true...Anybody got any input while I'm sitting here....Jay conf: Chelsea asked me in front of Alicia and Christina if I wanted to send Mike home, I don't like it when she talks in front of the other girls not in our alliance...Kim in Conf: Chelsea did an asinine thing, now it's a huge mess, what do you want to ask Mike....he went for a walk, he's going to explode this camp up....Kim goes to find Mike...Mike and Jay talk to Kim...So, let's just do Christina and then it's four more rounds that we can go...Jay says it's not that I don't trust you but I don't have a good vibe going on...Mike is good with it...confessional....talking about he doesn't see his tribe blindsiding him...

Kim and Sab, and Kat...something is going to be different, we need to vote Christina, or take out Mike, Jay freaked out when he thought Mike was going, do we keep Salani together or vote out Mike, what ever happens is going to change the whole game...

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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:51 PM (EST)
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14. "The game is afoot!"
The pinger just went off again.

"The game is afoot" {PING!}

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agman 11158 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 10:01 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: The game is afoot!"
We just take a shot of jack everytime he says that!


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04-04-12, 08:54 PM (EST)
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15. "The vote..."
Christina
Christina
Tarzan
Tarzan
Mike
Mike
Mike
Mike
Mike
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04-04-12, 08:58 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: The vote..."
Troyzan and Leif both voted for Mike, FWIW.
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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 08:55 PM (EST)
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16. "TC"
TC: Jeff asks who is genuinely woried that they are going home tonight....no one....so there are alot of alliances and all of them feel solid and loyal...TARZAN: someone is going home....someone has been very good at decieving...Troy says he'd be shocked if he wnet, KIm: same, Chelsea: same, Mike: Same, it would blow me away if I went tonight....I think there are some people that think we are a part of an alliance but they areen't says Kim....Chelsea: I think you want to be aligned with 2 or more groups and get trust and keep yourself with the majority...

Alicia: I definitely agree we don't know who is on who's side, and see who is loyal to who and who will be loyal..

Christina: is it still men vs. women? yes, but the new relationships with nuSalani or nu Manono, that's why we don't know....

Tarzan: If we reveal too much it will ruin the whole thing, therefore you are being played...

Kat: everyone is in a good mood, Tarzan doesn't call it a rant...should I be upset, should I be mad....don't know what to respond..

Jiffy: everyone is being played but 1 person

Mike, as far as I am concerned, My alliance is STRONG...Jeff says you think I am being played, I am pretty sure one of you is being played....see Jonas smiling on the jury....see Mike...Jay is going to be so pissed...raining at TC...

Votes:

See Kim, Mike, Troy, Christina...no one plays their idol, see Troy, Kim, Chelsea, then Mike...Kim...

Christina
Christina
Tarzan
Tarzan
Mike
Mike
Mike is worried
Michael
Mike
Mike
Mike is gone! He got 5 votes...

see chelsea and see Troy shake his head at Christina...he leaves...Jiffy says well you came in here completely confident it wasn't you, but 3 of you received votes, if that doesn't shake your confidence, nothing will...

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 09:03 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: TC"
Who voted for whom? I think I saw Alicia and Christina making the Tarzan votes. Mike and Jay (?) voted for Christina while Leif and Tarzan (?) voted for Mike. Did Kim leave Alicia and Christina out of the loop? Or did they split the votes in case Mike had the HII?
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04-04-12, 09:08 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: TC"
Troyzan voted for Mike.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-12, 09:11 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: TC"
It's the Tarzan votes that bother me. Why did Christina and Alicia vote against him?
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04-04-12, 09:32 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: TC"
The votes left me bumpuzzled. If it's supposed to be a female alliance going forward then why weren't Alicia and Christina in on the plan? If it's supposed to be a NuSalani alliance going forward why did they go through with voting Mike out? And how in the world did Leif manage to find out who was being targeted? Or was that simply Leif throwing another vote to Mike and getting lucky that he was actually with the majority?

So yeah, I'm not sure exactly which alliance Kim is thinking she's going to go with after the way it went down tonight.

Other than that, I loved how easily Troy fell for Kim's story. The preview of Jay threatening her about the next four votes might just be the doubt her edit's being needing to solidify her winner's chances.

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04-04-12, 09:49 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: TC"
You know, it could be that they told Alicia and Christina to vote that way in order to preserve the appearance that NuSalani still exists. Kim could tell Jay and Troy that they never talked to NuManono, that Salani is still up 6-4. That move would be really brilliant...even if the previews show that the guys wake up.
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04-04-12, 10:25 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: TC"
It would be a brilliant move if Christina and Alicia were in on the plan but I'm guessing that's not the case 'cause it looked like Christina was surprised when the Mike votes started. At least that was my impression watching it in the moment - I'd probably have to re-watch to be sure. Did anyone else catch her reaction? I'm looking forward to possibly getting an explanation next week!
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04-04-12, 10:44 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: TC"
Oh, I believe they were in on the plan - Kim seems to be too smart to risk alienating them like that. She probably told Christina to act surprised, too, and maybe convinced her that they had to split the votes in case of a HII bounce of some kind.
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04-04-12, 10:27 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: TC"
I think you are right, michel....most likely Kim had Alicia and Christina vote out Tarzan so they would appear to be out of the loop....but, I guarantee that Troy told Tarzan and Leif, his misfits, that they needed to vote for Mike, cause he was coming after them...I do not feel that Leif and Tarzan's vote were directed on their own...fwiw.

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04-04-12, 10:58 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: TC"
>I think you are right, michel....most
>likely Kim had Alicia and
>Christina vote out Tarzan so
>they would appear to be
>out of the loop....but, I
>guarantee that Troy told Tarzan
>and Leif, his misfits, that
>they needed to vote for
>Mike, cause he was coming
>after them...I do not feel
>that Leif and Tarzan's vote
>were directed on their own...fwiw.
>

Didn't Greg vote for Christina though? If he did that would mean he either didn't know the plan or he forgot what it was by the time he voted

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04-04-12, 11:00 PM (EST)
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45. "RE: TC"
Eh, Christina and Mike... they all sound the same to good ol' Tarzan.
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04-04-12, 10:58 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: TC"
*IF* Kim turns out to be the winner this season and she also orchestrated all this vote wrangling this week, then I think we will have a new front-runner for the greatest Survivor winner ever.


(I know, I know, it's still early and there's still 7 more boots to come before the final jury)

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04-05-12, 00:23 AM (EST)
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47. "RE: TC"
I know that you are a very comprehensive analyst, so I really do hesitate to ask the question (but my curiosity has the better of me): Assessed solely by the quality of the opposition, do you still come to the same conclusion?

G

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04-05-12, 07:35 AM (EST)
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52. "RE: TC"
Georgianna, I suggest you start a winners' ranking thread in fanatics after the season is over!

For now, let's just say she played someone that was a big fan of the show and had looked smart enough before.

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04-05-12, 07:46 PM (EST)
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69. "RE: TC"
LAST EDITED ON 04-12-12 AT 06:32 AM (EST)


Michel,

Thank you so much for putting me in my place. Shall I leave immediately? Or may I wait here for the Season to end?

But for now, let's just say that I asked the question of Pepe because I think highly of his skills. However, the question itself is a recurring one for me. To explain:

I worked for several years with a gentleman who maintained that Cassius Clay/Mohammad Ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time. I, on the other hand, having watched every bit of footage that I was able to see live (or on film) of Ali - and of Rocky Marciano - maintained that Marciano would have shrugged off the best that the kid from Louisville had to offer, taken the ring away from him and dropped Ali by the seventh round.

But, because I was merely a boxing fan and he was a student of the sport, my friend always won the argument. And he usually - finally - shut me up with his encyclopedic knowledge and detailed analyses of the career histories of Marciano's and Ali's opponents. And those analyses were a major factor in his conclusion that Ali came to his championship over a much more difficult path.

'Even if you could know which of the two would win a match between them', he said, 'the result of one fight wouldn't be the answer to the far more complicated question.'

So, because I am just a fan of Survivor, I asked a student of the game a question that I thought appropriate to his comment. It wasn't intended to be Kim-specific and I apologize if it appeared to be. I wanted to, and should have, asked:

'If you ranked Sole Survivors only by the quality of the opposition to their win - to include, but not be limited to, the native intelligence, mental and physical stamina, athletic skills, social acumen and determination/dedication of the Season's other players - would your list look the same as it does now?'.

In other words, I was interested to know how much, or little, weight, Pepe gives the matter in reaching his conclusions.

For instance:

I've watched Palau to One World. And although he certainly isn't my favorite winner, I think that, within those Seasons, Aras faced the stiffest opposition to his victory.


Marciano (asked if he could have defeated Ali): "I'd be conceited if I said I could, but I'd be lying if I said I couldn't."


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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-12, 01:57 AM (EST)
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71. "RE: TC"
Georgianna, I had absolutely no intention of "putting you in your place". My remark only reflected how impossible I think it is to rank winners. Start a thread about it and you will get as many different answers as there will be posters.

For example, some say Aras only won by losing all those challenges to Terry. If someone, say sally, had won immunity instead of Terry then Casaya votes Terry, Terry votes against Aras, pulls his idol and Aras leaves. Myself, I see it more like you and consider that EI was a season where everyone was looking out for number one. Still, for those seasons, I'd put Tom, Danni, Earl, Todd, JT and Rob ahead of Aras. Then, tomorrow, I might look at it differently!

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04-11-12, 05:15 PM (EST)
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74. "RE: TC"
LAST EDITED ON 04-12-12 AT 06:33 AM (EST)


Michel,

My response to your post was an overreaction. It was a bad day. And it seemed to me at the time that my toe-in-the-water question concerning a subject that was being politely entertained elsewhere in the thread had been pretty summarily dismissed (if not banished altogether).

As it is, no harm was done here and I hope none there. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to respond to my question. And I agree that objectively ranking Survivor’s winners is impossible.

Unlike boxers, with relatively few exceptions Survivors don’t arrive for the match with a record in the sport or compile round-by-round scores during the competition. And, in fact, each successive installment of this social contest brings with it less and less – official – biographical information regarding its contestants.

But, although the process – including assessments of the quality of their opposition – is necessarily very subjective, I do think that comparisons/rankings of the winners by well-informed students of the Game are – as are ML’s Funny 115s – not only enjoyable reads but also valuable “spoiling” tools. Whatever the shape of it, I don’t think that the past ever fails to inform the future.

As for your list of those winners you’d rank before Aras:

One of the yardsticks that I – very informally and very amateurishly - use is the number of castaways other than the eventual winner who I believe began the Season absolutely determined to become its Sole Survivor and then the number of those few who survived the tribal portion of the Game. And with just another quick glance at the cast lists for Palau to One World – I’ve had a hectic week – I would agree with you about Danni …

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-11-12, 06:15 PM (EST)
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75. "RE: TC"
I see that we are on the same page! And, while ranking winners cannot be done objectively, it still can be fun to submit a list but the little devil in my first post was a warning, not a dismissal: When you rank winners you get into endless debates and they are not always fun.
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04-11-12, 06:46 PM (EST)
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76. "RE: TC"
LAST EDITED ON 04-11-12 AT 06:56 PM (EST)

When you rank winners you get into endless debates and they are not always fun.

I know. And there are enough places, times and subjects in our lives when debate is a serious matter. But ranking Sole Survivors isn't one of them. And I think that those of us who as a matter of policy always pass up the opportunity to debate anything and everything else - just for the sheer hell of the exercise - are missing a whole lot of fun.

G

PS: There is another set of criteria that strongly suggest to me that - during the referenced Seasons - Yul and Jud had the toughest roads to the $1,000,000. But that's another (perhaps, one day) thread ...

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04-11-12, 07:45 PM (EST)
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77. "RE: TC"
Yul? Jud?? You must be trying to get me started on that exercise!


I rate Jud as the least deserving ever!

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04-11-12, 08:06 PM (EST)
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78. "RE: TC"
>I know that you are a
>very comprehensive analyst, so I
>really do hesitate to ask
>the question (but my curiosity
>has the better of me):
> Assessed solely by the
>quality of the opposition, do
>you still come to the
>same conclusion?
>
>G

Whoops, I just saw your question now, and let me apologize if my simple comment has unintentionally ruffled a few feathers (and I don't mean just yours).

There's not a single criteria that could be used to judge who's the best of what, as we all have our own preferences, opinions, judgments and likes (for example, OFG has professed her somewhat dislike for Kim's style of play while I respect her style of play as I like the cool and collected types - that doesn't make her any more wrong or smarter than I might be) ... but having said that, here's why I said that about Kim:

As michel pointed out, she just completely played a guy many of us might consider to have been playing a decent enough game of Survivor up to last episode. Troy is a superfan of the show and most people would consider him pretty savvy, and at this point in Survivor's history, there's a lot of contestants that show up gunning and firing on all cylinders, quick to set up alliances, and do other things because they've mostly all have seen Survivor and know how the game works. For one thing, I think most of us can agree that this appears to be a sharper bunch of game players than what Rob had to deal with in S22 Redemption Island.

With all that, Kim still appears to be able to firmly have two alliances in control and is able to pull strings rather easily to get so-called savvy game players to do what she wishes. She's making it look easy so far.

Now, of course, it could all be an illusion while somebody else is actually pulling the strings and maybe Kim will take a big fall later on -- but based on what we've been shown by the editors, it's hard not to think that Kim is playing at a level so few Survivors have ever attained.

Just a matter of a personal opinion on the game play so far and there's still plenty of time left in the season for me to come out looking like a fool while somebody else rises to glory.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-11-12, 09:03 PM (EST)
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79. "RE: TC"
I completely agree with this!
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04-11-12, 09:14 PM (EST)
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80. "RE: TC"
... that I'll look like a damn fool while someone else rides to glory?

<ba-da-bing!>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-11-12, 09:24 PM (EST)
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81. "RE: TC"
No; that I'd look just as foolish as you!
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04-04-12, 10:38 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: TC"
If Kim is really thinking that far ahead as the Reward scene told us, then telling the nuManono women to vote Tarzan is absolutely brilliant.

I am a huge Kim fan (love seeing a woman portrayed as smart without being a b*tch) and if she understands how her HII works - someone mentioned only playing it if her target plays one, since she has the majority, she has her ticket punched to F5.

That being said it looks like it's Jay doing the scrambling and Troyzan might be in Kim's pocket.

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04-04-12, 09:54 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: TC"
Yeah, Leif was probably just throwing his vote away not knowing what would happen, voting for Mike last time didn't come back to bite him so why not.
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04-04-12, 09:13 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: TC"
Tarzan and Michael voted for Christina
Alicia and Christina voted for Tarzan
EVERYONE else voted for MIke....even Jay and Leif...
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04-04-12, 10:10 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: TC"
Kim is using Troy to support the boot choice and get out the strong male, which means that she still has her two options....but, if they are supposed to vote as Salani, Troy confides in Tarzan and LEif, meanwhile Kim/Chelsea/Sab/Kat do NOT clue in Alicia and Christina....interesting indeed! Maybe something could be worked out for blindisiding...food for thought.
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04-04-12, 09:05 PM (EST)
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19. "Next time on Survivor:"
Kim is really a mastermind....and Chelsea really was stupid...almost let the cat out of the bag, so to speak...

The women are in control of the game, see Kim, Chelsea, Alicia at camp
See Tarzan talking to Troy: Tarzan: Those women are planning to knock us all out...
Then see Jay coming out of the shelter
Troy talking to Tarzan: something major could happen
Jiffy: But the men fight back...
Jay talking to Kim, in her face: The next 4 votes are coming your way
Troy talking to Christina: Who are you voting for?
Troy in confessional: Their going to get to pull a switcheroo
Jay talking with Kat: We need YOU to step forward....are you down with that?
Jay in confessional: There are definitely going to be some blindsides coming up

Mike: I came out of the gates too hot and I have been back pedaling ever since...I talked to the women individually and I thought I could trust them, but not the case...

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04-04-12, 09:49 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
Face it, for this season, the men have no chance against the women!

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04-04-12, 09:51 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
Lopevi didn't seem to have a shot against Yasur either.
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04-04-12, 10:35 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
michel wrote: Lopevi didn't seem to have a shot against Yasur either.

So true and so similar! 6 Women vs 4 Men at the Vanuatu Merge and ditto now 6 Women vs 4 Men in One World.

Let's see how about this match up:


10) Rory = Tarzan # Sarge/Jay wins Immmunity
9) Sarge = Jay # Ami/Kim wins Immunity
8) Chad = Leif # Twilla/Alicia wins Immunity
7) Leann = Chelsea # Ami/Kim wins Immunity; 3 women Flip/Blindside!
6) Ami = Kim # Chris/Troy wins Immunity
5) Julie = Sabrina # Eliza/Christina wins Immunity
4) Eliza = Christina # Chris/Troy wins Immunity
3) Scout = Kat # Final 3, Troy Wins!
2) Twilla = Alicia
1) Chris = Troy

Not perfect since Kim has an Idol and would move up but it could happen. The bottom 3 women (Christina, Alicia, Kat) are going to want to move up and flipping to Troyzan would jump them up 3 places. Kim, Chelsea, and Sabrina are going to need to be careful to not get too over confident...

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04-04-12, 10:57 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
The biggest difference though is numbers: Back then, Chris could only count on two men on the jury. Twila had 5 women jurors so it was tempting. Today, if Troyzan makes it to the end, he'd have 5 guys voting most likely for him. The women must realize that they can't go half-way; they have to pagong the men.
Did I ever tell you that I hate the F3? That's why: It promotes pagonging. I'd say a guy makes the F3 only on a challenge run and Jay is the most likely: Slow and steady wins the game he said. Will it?
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04-04-12, 11:08 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
>....and Chelsea really was stupid...almost let the
>cat out of the bag, so to speak...

Interesting tweet from Chelsea just a few minutes ago:

Chelsea Meissner ‏ @ChelseaMeissner
Guess I ran my mouth a little too much tonight.. Thank goodness for Kim saving my butt! Hope everyone enjoyed Survivor tonight!

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04-05-12, 03:25 AM (EST)
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48. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
Didn't she do it twice? The first time was after the RC when the losers were sitting around camp and she asked who was going to go. Troy, Jay and Kat were there, but so was Alicia, who isn't in the NuSalani alliance.

The second 'infraction' was later, when Troy was there with both Alicia and Christina.

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04-05-12, 09:09 AM (EST)
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54. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
I seem to be in the minority, but I like Kim less every week. She is too clinical for my taste. She treats people like game pieces to be used and discarded.

I liked it when players formed real bonds with each other, seems to happen less and less.

I liked Troyzan less as well.

Chelsea is emerging to be very moody and not very controlled in her responses. While it makes her look worse, I like her for being more real. Kim is like a programmer or something.

Sabrina continues to be likable.

I warmed up to Jay this episode. I haven't been a fan of Jay other than his nice looks, but he picked up in my esteem this time, while Kim dropped. Kim got lucky that her plan didn't blow up in her face.

Boston Rob would have had everyone well instructed what to say to whom and what not to say. Kim didn't have Chelsea programmed; she didn't have Jay on board; she barely arrived in time to keep Jay from telling Mike his gig was up.

It worked out for her, but it was clunky.
Troy was edited as (and probably was) a douche for getting worked up about Mike in response to her bug in his ear. It was obvious he had a thing against Mike from the get-go, so he was easy to play.

If Boston Rob had been running this episode, he would have offered a great running commentary, but to my eye Kim is emotionally flat.

If she does win, this season is going to be very boring in its arc, as it became obvious she was possible winner even before Episode 1 aired -- she was already the main candidate just from the pre-game shots. I hope that they have been setting us up to be surprised, but maybe not.

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04-05-12, 09:41 AM (EST)
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55. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
Agree about Kim. And Jay.


Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie


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04-05-12, 08:53 PM (EST)
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70. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
Nice to see a discussion sparked by my late night comment ...

To be clear, I brought in Boston Rob because of the remark that Kim could be in the league of greatest Survivor winner ever if she wins. If that's the league, then it doesn't matter how many times anyone has played; we are simply comparing the winners in their seasons ... so it is fair.

That said, I really hate making comparisons to prior seasons. No two seasons or characters or situations are alike.

My starting point is:
I don't LIKE Kim at this point, and I'm not rooting for her. That's the fact, and I have every right to feel that way, as no one can tell us what to like. Liking someone's play is not the same as agreeing they are successful. Liking is an emotional response.

So then what I was reaching for was an explanation of why I feel that way. Is it Kim, or is it the editing? I'm not sure.

What I do know is that I was rooting for her prey to wake up, get wise to her, escape. I suppose I felt that way with Rob in S22 as well, but at the same time I found Rob very likable. I watched the 80 Ways show he filled with Dennis last summer, and Rob is hyper-competitive but he's also endearing and flat out funny. He anchored an entire short series with his personality.

Back to Kim, she's not exactly prevailing over a Survivor brain trust here. We're not being shown anyone else who is clever in a strategic way. The whole rest of the group seems to be defined by those who get that 6 is more than 5 and one should work towards achieving that ("the smart ones"), vs. the ones who are floating along thinking they have some sort of alliance that means they won't be on the chopping block.

I really don't care for seasons where they divide by gender. It's such a fundamental division that it draws lines that are hard to break, and it binds people together who might not work together in a mixed group.

I am enjoying the season though, lots of characters being themselves and doing and saying dumb things instead of being in perfect control of themselves. I guess I don't care for Kim because she is the exception. She seems robotic to me. Oh great, food, I was actually getting tired, oh good, that problem solved.

I prefer Chelsea on the losing side who very humanly tells the crowing winners to "shut the F up." Not politic, but real.

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04-06-12, 02:06 AM (EST)
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72. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
That said, I really hate making comparisons to prior seasons. No two seasons or characters or situations are alike.

Absolutely agree. Twists aside, the mix of characters each season is unique.

Actions and situations do reoccur, how the players deal with each other in their unique mixes often varies. This is one of the reasons I hate the casting department trying to find a villain for each season, a beauty queen, a diva, a mastermind, whatever. Cast the most interesting folks available and let the dramas develop organically. This season has almost (almost) been a return to the good ol' days in that regard.

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04-06-12, 07:26 AM (EST)
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73. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
agree, dabo, that's what I like about this season.
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04-05-12, 10:04 AM (EST)
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56. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
Re:"If Boston Rob had been running this episode, he would have offered a great running commentary, but to my eye Kim is emotionally flat."

True, Kim is clinical in her approach. And not like Heidek or BostonRob in their play-by-plays. But I think that was purely egos run amok and not player quality points. It's not how you describe how you manipulated someone but rather the manipulations themselves that should be considered in any comparisons of player greatness. Unless you're looking at strictly 'entertainment' value, when of course BostonRob wins by a longshot.

Kim seems to be following the Tina playbook with her behind-the-scenes gameplay. And ultimately the paycheck is the same amount...just a different entertainment value. Perhaps that is why SEG is showing her many moves so early-on....as they realized what a mistake that was to miss all that in S2 with Tina. And likely we'll never see the 'Colby' sword-fall ever again...another reason to have hidden Tina. So this time around they are spotlighting the path to the end b/c there are enough quality players/characters to generate alternate storyarcs and keep things interesting...even in the face of the Kim spotlight?

Just an alternate take on things here.

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04-05-12, 10:51 AM (EST)
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57. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
I tend to agree with this. We're seeing a lot of Kim's gameplay, but we're also seeing the characters in camp, and I'm seeing a lot of people here commenting on how much they're enjoying this season so it's nice to see the editors having a good season for a change (especially after the horrible hatchet job they did last season with the lovefest of Coachebag, Ozzy, Cochran and LilHantz obscuring what Sophie may or may not have done).
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04-05-12, 11:04 AM (EST)
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58. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
I've definitely noticed an uptick in the quality of editing this season. Not necessarily every episode but overall an uptick. For example this last episode could have been a real mess if not edited well to show how it evolved. Perhaps another reason to show Kim's moves...they had to, in order to make the episode somewhat understandable for the viewers at home. Otherwise it would have been...well, a mess.
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04-05-12, 11:39 AM (EST)
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59. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
Yes, yes, exactly! Loving Kim less, and she's no Brian or Boston Rob. That said, she's closer to BR than any of these other people, so... that's something. She's probably the best player this season, which means we should expect her to lose at the end.

Chelsea is moody and not very personable, but still very pretty, so I have to root for her. Plus she hasn't been given a negative edit - actually, a very "lucky" edit. She lost the challenge with Alicia and the "easy" puzzle, but was spared the negative attention - and they ended up not having to go to tribal that night. Now she goes and blabs to Jay, Kim saves her, but again, no negative attention to her.

I'd love to see what Boston Rob would do with Tarzan...

I like Kat more and more, too. She might not outwit anyone, but she could outlast (until Alicia sides with the guys in an upcoming episode?)

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04-05-12, 12:36 PM (EST)
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61. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
LAST EDITED ON 04-05-12 AT 12:36 PM (EST)

I'd love to see what Boston Rob would do with Tarzan...

We did already...he'd take him to the end (Phillip, anyone?)
along with Kat (Natalie, anyone?)

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04-05-12, 12:46 PM (EST)
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63. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
Re: "She might not outwit anyone, but she could outlast"

Anyone else note at the IC hard-puzzle stage, the unnecessary inclusion of a clip/shot of Kat ~ "that puzzle is too hard for me" or somesuch. Another visit for her at the goat feeding trough?

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04-05-12, 04:59 PM (EST)
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64. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
All good points, but to be fair, Boston Rob didn't exactly play anywhere near the level of Kim's play in his first season.

When Kim is playing for her third time it will be fair to compare her to BR.

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04-05-12, 05:53 PM (EST)
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67. "RE: Next time on Survivor:"
>Kim...treats people
>like game pieces to be
>used and discarded.
>
>...Kim is
>like a programmer or something.
>>...Kim didn't
>have Chelsea programmed;

Isn't there a contradiction here?

As for treating people like game pieces, I remember how Lex, Big Tom and Alicia felt way back when. And what about Hunter?

>Boston Rob would have had everyone
>well instructed what to say
>to whom and what not to say

But Rob played that 4th game with a bunch of docile zombies. It's more impressive when people think of talking to each other and you find a way to prevent it.

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04-04-12, 10:11 PM (EST)
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35. "Getting back to the RC"
LAST EDITED ON 04-04-12 AT 10:48 PM (EST)

1- It was strange that the winners didn't get a clue to the HII
2- Tarzan was heard cheering for Jay and Troyzan so he probably was given the opportunity to pick a side and got the wrong one.
3- It would have been fun to see the pick 'em.

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04-04-12, 10:42 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: Getting back to the RC"
I love watching schoolyard pick 'ems and even though it was obvious that Tarzan wouldn't be picked, I would have liked to see the picks. Looks like it went right according to athleticism.

Jay picks Troy, Mike picks Kim, Troy picks Kat, Kim picks Sab, Kat picks Chelsea, Sab picks Christina (probably for puzzle purposes), Chelsea picks Alicia and Christina picks Leif over Tarzan. IMO

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04-05-12, 06:43 AM (EST)
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50. "RE: Getting back to the RC"
Except that the first pickers aren't automatically the best athletes. Probably a form of drawing to for captains to start the pick.

I would have liked to see it too.

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04-05-12, 07:05 AM (EST)
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51. "RE: Getting back to the RC"
YES! I agree, I would have loved to see the pick 'em!

Especially when it came to who Kim would have picked....Sab or Chelsea...but, we really don't know, one of the three girls could have been the first picker...

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04-05-12, 12:38 PM (EST)
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62. "RE: Getting back to the RC"
Dalton Ross asked Jiffy about this in his weekly Jiffy column and Jiffy said Tarzan did pick Jay's team so they didn't want to wast time on it...I think it went the way set forth in here already...and they went in the order they were picked down the slide
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04-05-12, 05:02 PM (EST)
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65. "RE: Getting back to the RC"
It makes sense that the pick 'em would be in order of strength and athletic ability, as would the strategy of who goes down the slide.
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04-05-12, 05:56 PM (EST)
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68. "RE: Getting back to the RC"
Woohoo! I got it right about hearing Tarzan's cheers!

Did Jeff say that Mike and Jay were the two captains? That seems a bit lucky if it was done randomly.

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