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"The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific - Part III"
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VerucaSalt 1577 desperate attention whore postings
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11-25-11, 10:36 AM (EST)
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"The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific - Part III"
I am amazed that this thread has garnered this much attention considering a few seasons ago, it seemed ready to be laid to rest.

Considering the length and content of the last postings in the prior thread, I thought a new thread would be in order and the timing seems appropriate (post recap)

For reference sake:

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/7706.shtml

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/7777.shtml

One word about recaps in my non-professional opinion, recaps are extremely useful. One may question why something was shown for only a recap as opposed to the standard episodes. One also can potentially learn about tribal dynamics - despite that it is not shown on the regular episode, we are seeing how people are interacting with others which may reinforce what one already believes or shed light on something not sure about.

Obviously quite a bit is hindsight in understanding. Keith and Whitney's closeness was not shown because it had no bearing to the outcome or their progression in the show. Compare that to Amanda and Ozzy and one can see how editing is very deliberate.

I ask myself after the recap - why are we not seeing this on the show and how, if it was highlighted on a regular show, would it possibly change our views on what the possible outcome may be?

However, let's not forget that in general terms, a recap is also a simple method of catching up a viewer in one show. Therefore, when watching, remember that and take the information with a grain of salt BUT some items may be a rather significant grain.


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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... television 11-25-11 1
 Recap New Scenes: michel 11-25-11 2
   RE: Recap New Scenes: dabo 11-25-11 3
       RE: Recap New Scenes: Belle Book 11-26-11 6
   RE: Recap New Scenes: Belle Book 11-26-11 5
 Thoughts on the Recap Episode dabo 11-26-11 4
   RE: Thoughts on the Recap Episode Belle Book 11-26-11 7
   RE: Thoughts on the Recap Episode Toban 11-26-11 8
       RE: Thoughts on the Recap Episode dabo 11-26-11 11
           RE: Thoughts on the Recap Episode Outfrontgirl 11-26-11 12
   The Individual Games dabo 11-26-11 14
       RE: The Individual Games michel 11-27-11 16
 Post Merge recap michel 11-26-11 9
   RE: Post Merge recap Belle Book 11-26-11 10
   RE: Post Merge recap Slider 11-26-11 13
       RE: Post Merge recap michel 11-27-11 15
           RE: Post Merge recap Belle Book 11-27-11 17
               RE: Post Merge recap glennyfromtheblock 11-29-11 18
           RE: Post Merge recap SurvivorFan101 11-29-11 19
               RE: Post Merge recap dabo 11-29-11 20
               RE: Post Merge recap michel 11-29-11 21
 Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: michel 12-03-11 22
   RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: dabo 12-03-11 23
       RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: michel 12-03-11 24
           RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: dabo 12-03-11 25
               RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: michel 12-03-11 29
           RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: Outfrontgirl 12-03-11 26
               RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: michel 12-03-11 28
   RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: Flowerpower 12-03-11 27
       RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: michel 12-03-11 30
           RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: Flowerpower 12-03-11 31
           RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: Belle Book 12-03-11 32
               Answer to editing question OllieKat 12-04-11 33
   RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: parathor 12-05-11 34
       RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: Belle Book 12-05-11 35
           RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: glennyfromtheblock 12-06-11 36
               RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: parathor 12-06-11 37
                   RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: Belle Book 12-06-11 38
               RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: michel 12-06-11 39
                   RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: Outfrontgirl 12-06-11 40
                       RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: michel 12-06-11 41
                           RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts: Outfrontgirl 12-07-11 42
 Episode 12 family visit thoughts Outfrontgirl 12-09-11 43
   RE: Episode 12 family visit thought... glennyfromtheblock 12-09-11 44
       RE: Episode 12 family visit thought... michel 12-09-11 45
           RE: Episode 12 family visit thought... glennyfromtheblock 12-09-11 46
           RE: Episode 12 family visit thought... Toban 12-09-11 47
           RE: Episode 12 family visit thought... CTgirl 12-09-11 48
               RE: Episode 12 family visit thought... dabo 12-10-11 49
                   RE: Episode 12 family visit thought... Flowerpower 12-10-11 52
 RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... matt 12-10-11 50
   RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... dabo 12-10-11 51
       RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... Flowerpower 12-10-11 53
           RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... Belle Book 12-10-11 54
 Episode 12 - Editing Thoughts: michel 12-10-11 55
   RE: Episode 12 - Editing Thoughts: rose1974 12-11-11 56
       RE: Episode 12 - Editing Thoughts: michel 12-11-11 57
           RE: Episode 12 - Editing Thoughts: suzzee 12-12-11 58
               RE: Episode 12 - Editing Thoughts: parathor 12-13-11 59
                   RE: Episode 12 - Editing Thoughts: Booted 12-15-11 60
 Penultimate Episode - Editing Thoug... michel 12-17-11 61
   RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing T... glennyfromtheblock 12-17-11 63
   RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing T... Belle Book 12-17-11 64
       RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing T... Outfrontgirl 12-17-11 65
           RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing T... dabo 12-18-11 66
               RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing T... Outfrontgirl 12-18-11 67
               RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing T... michel 12-18-11 69
                   RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing T... dabo 12-18-11 73
 Thoughts on likability of likely fi... Outfrontgirl 12-17-11 62
 Final Thoughts... Flowerpower 12-18-11 68
   RE: Final Thoughts... michel 12-18-11 70
   RE: Season Finale VerucaSalt 12-18-11 71
       RE: Season Finale michel 12-18-11 72
           RE: Season Finale VerucaSalt 12-20-11 83
       RE: Season Finale Outfrontgirl 12-18-11 74
           RE: Season Finale michel 12-20-11 84
   RE: Final Thoughts... Outfrontgirl 12-18-11 75
 A season in a nutshell michel 12-19-11 76
   RE: A season in a nutshell Belle Book 12-19-11 77
   RE: A season in a nutshell PepeLePew13 12-19-11 78
       RE: A season in a nutshell michel 12-19-11 79
           RE: A season in a nutshell Outfrontgirl 12-19-11 80
               RE: A season in a nutshell michel 12-19-11 81
                   RE: A season in a nutshell suzzee 12-21-11 90
                       RE: A season in a nutshell michel 12-21-11 92
               RE: A season in a nutshell Corvis 12-20-11 82
                   RE: A season in a nutshell michel 12-20-11 85
                       RE: A season in a nutshell PepeLePew13 12-20-11 86
                       RE: A season in a nutshell Outfrontgirl 12-20-11 88
                           RE: A season in a nutshell michel 12-21-11 89
                               RE: A season in a nutshell Belle Book 12-21-11 91
                                   RE: A season in a nutshell Outfrontgirl 12-21-11 93
                                       RE: A season in a nutshell Belle Book 12-22-11 94
                                       RE: A season in a nutshell michel 12-22-11 95
           RE: A season in a nutshell PepeLePew13 12-20-11 87

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television 272 desperate attention whore postings
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11-25-11, 09:31 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific - Part III"
I have nowhere near the spoiling acumen as the distinguished posters on this thread, but I have learned alot from about 15 seasons of following this board, to the point that I make my own observations about the editing while I'm watching the show and am probably really annoying to my sister when I say 'well isn't is obvious that so-and-so is going next? He's getting all the confessionals, and Jeff painted him in a negative light in the intro' and so on.

I actually enjoyed watching the recap, unbelievably enough. And editing-wise, what struck me most was Cochran and Coach continuing along their editing paths as the heroes of the season. Coach is set up as the cunning, perceptive guy (?!) while Ozzy is set up as the fool - socially, however, so that he's still our challenge hero and we love him very much for that. We were given so many little reasons to like Cochran, from Elyse's 'you've got to love the guy' to the ostracism from his tribe (getting treated poorly in the love shack, getting 'put in an uncomfortable position' by Ozzy with the chicken killing). We obviously have to love him, but I'm not convinced that's because he's a winner - it may just be because the crew loved him.

Coach, as well, gets the 'smart player' edit, but I found it was interesting that all his confessionals about Cochran were (presumably) cut short, leaving in the part where he says "I've got to do whatever I can to build up the guy's confidence" but leaving out the part where he says 'so that I can use him to get myself further in the game'. That's interesting, as someone like Albert was described as 'selfish' for wanting to get rid of crazy Brandon. They really want us to believe that the Coach-Cochran relationship is genuine and unselfish, which part of it may be and that's all good and sweet, but that's not the whole story, I'm sure.

I'll step aside and let the pros go to it, but I just watched the episode so I was excited to comment.

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11-25-11, 10:15 PM (EST)
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2. "Recap New Scenes:"
LAST EDITED ON 11-26-11 AT 00:07 AM (EST)


Jeff introduces the season by saying it gave new meaning to "Leadership, Humility, Winning and Losing."

Rick was shown "winning", Cochran during "losing"


He then told us that the returning legendary players were quick to set up their core alliances.
Coach named Edna in his alliance, Ozzy ignored Cochran

Coach struggled to control an unruly ally and Cochran was left dodging bullets all along the way.

After the merge...Coach found a chink in the armor of the former Savaii. At TC, Cochran did cross that line and Keith was voted out, followed by Ozzy (We hear his pledge to return)..leaving Coach in full control of the game.

In the early stages of the game, the two tribes took different approaches to camp life. These differences defined their journey for the rest of the game.
We saw Coach building a shelter, Ozzy going swimming.

Cochran and Dawn had trouble joining the party train.

As part of "his many quirks that prevented him from fitting in the tribe" Cochran told us he was an animal lover which made it difficult to gut the fish.

At Upolu... Coach was building a family.

Coach talked about Ozzy: "He is a great type of Survivor to have out here next to you. Would I rather have Coach Wade on my tribe or would I rather have Ozzy? I'd rather have Ozzy."
Isn't that a nice show of humility? If winning is about leadership and humility, I think we have to strongly consider Coach


We then heard Brandon and Coach forming a bond as men of God.
Brandon told us he had "mad respect for Coach."

Jeff mentioned that Brandon wanted redemption for the family name by becoming a provider.
We had a second dig at Ozzy when Edna said: "Brandon is going to be the new Ozzy." and Brandon replied: "Ozzy who?!"

When it came to hiding his true identity, Sophie had her suspicions about him. "I feel like he is hiding something."

Cochran...had to depend on his social game to integrate himself in Savaii.
Papa Bear was heard saying: "I really do like him. He has a good heart. I want to father him because I think this will be a good experiance for him."
Mark then gave John tricks to pick up girls in a bar.
They practiced on Whitney who told him: "If you told me my ear-rings looked good, I would think you're gay."
(That cracked me up considering where the advice had come from!)

Coach was a kind and benevolent father to his family but not so much to outsiders as Mikayla soon learned when she committed the sin of over-scooping her morning coffee.
Coach vented to Albert.
For laughs, he cooked up the pork fat in front of Mikayla, making her sick.

Cochran was busy making his own tribe cringe. He told Elyse of a bathroom mishap that happened to him in kindergarden.
Elyse's reaction: "You can't help but love the guy. What a weird kid!"

When Upolu went to TC, Brandon launched into an irrational outburst nut, unlike Mikayla, he was part of the family so he was forgiven by Coach.

Rick and Edna talked about the problem that Brandon could cause at merge. Rock told us they'd have to get rid of him.
Coach promised to keep him under control.
With Brandon, Coach prayed for peace and self-control.
Note that, since then, Brandon has been mostly quiet. It seems important that we saw Coach being able to control him.

Cochran was becoming more and more an outsider. All he could do was watch as the others got closer and closer.
Keith and Whitney got so close that they treated camp life like a honeymoon.
Whitney told us she was making an effort not to seem too close.
Cochran told us he liked Keith and Whitney but was hoping other people noticed how close they were.
He told us he had the "pleasure of sleeping in the lovers' bungalow with Keith and Whitney."

Jeff said: "To add insult to injury, Ozzy went out of his way to put Cochran in uncomfortable situations, making him an object of ridicule".
We saw the killing of the first chicken and Ozzy's laugh at Cochran's expression.

If this is about leadership and humility, Ozzy isn't winning

Cochran just hoped he wouldn't wind up like the chiicken.
Cochran then, (out of the blue) gave us a confessional where he said: "I knew I would be horrible at the tribe game. The individual game, come merge time, is where I am going to succeed. I am going to slip in and out of alliances and cut bonds as quickly as you can blink your eyes. If the merge comes and I am still here, you are going to see it happen."

This could go back to last episode where Jeff urged Cochran to make a move during TC and Cochran stayed with the same alliance. Cochran didn't follow his game plan.

After the loss, Ozzy drew up a plan so ridiculous that it just might work.

The first part of Ozzy's gamble paid off.


I'll add the post-merge scenes tomorrow.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-25-11, 10:56 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Recap New Scenes:"
Got some ideas of my own which will just boggle your mind!

One brief note on Cochran: I don't know that we should make too much of the "PETA supporter" thing. PETA is a pretty polarizing group, supports and encourages some extremely radical activities, but it doesn't seem Cochran belongs in the dangerously radicalized PETA extreme.

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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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11-26-11, 01:07 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Recap New Scenes:"
I don't think we should either. I didn't see the recap but I don't think Cochran is as radical as some people from PETA. At least, I never got that impression of him from earlier scenes. I could see Angela from Estee's fanfic being someone who'd be in the dangerously radicalized PETA extreme, however.


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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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11-26-11, 01:05 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Recap New Scenes:"
From what I heard so far, I'd have to say that Coach had good moments and bad ones. The one where he said that he'd have Ozzy on his tribe was a great moment because that showed some humility from him. Unfortunately, the one where he punished Mikayla for over-scooping her coffee by cooking up the pork fat in front of Mikayla, making her sick, was a bad one by making him seem petty and vindictive. So I think the jury's still out a bit on Coach.

However, I agree that he's in much better shape than Ozzy as far as the recap is concerned. After all, Ozzy was the one that was shown as basically ostracizing Cochran and leading the way to make the guy more and more of an outsider. Whether you are on Cochran's side, on Ozzy's side or are neutral (like I am), you can't say that Cochran ever felt secure on Savaii. Even if Cochran wasn't being out-and-out bullied, ostracizing him was a bad move, and Savaii paid for it. And one could say that Ozzy's failures in leadership and humility were the main reasons for Savaii's being Pagonged -- at least, that's what Jeff is implying.


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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-26-11, 02:15 AM (EST)
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4. "Thoughts on the Recap Episode"
LAST EDITED ON 11-27-11 AT 03:22 PM (EST)

As I saw it, the Recap episode presented us with several contrasting storyline, but also brought into focus the gameplay of some of the remaining players. Most of those already eliminated from the game were totally ignored, Keith and Papa Bear getting a bit of notice in spite of the fact they are gone, because of relations to remaining players.

The biggest and most obvious contrasting storylines were in respect to the initial tribes, Savaii and Upolu, and their respective returning player nominal leaders, Ozzy and Coach. Ozzy took a laid back approach to controlling Savaii, an organic approach, in an effort to instill a fun atmosphere. Coach took a more controlled approach, using his initial role as experienced advisor, to establish order.

Neither approach is actually better in Survivor terms, it depends on the personalities involved, it depends on the make-ups of the tribes; though Coach's approach worked better given the personalities in Upolu, Ozzy's approach in Savaii was problematic from the start as there were those on his tribe looking for more leadership.

Ozzy relied on his tribe's dependence on himself as a provider, Coach was more about giving orders and delegating jobs. Early on it became a contrast between the fun tribe and the get down to business tribe.

Outsiders in both tribes faced their own problems. Mikayla representing the outsiders for Uloplu, Cochran for Savaii (though Dawn had some problems fitting in as well). In terms of tribal approaches, Coach determined who were the outsiders in Upolu, Cochran fell into that role in Savaii per his own choices and retained it as long as he was around, or rather there was a Savaii.

In the pigfat scene Coach was shown to be petty and vindictive. Mikayla was shown to be feeling ill the day after the pork victory, which she was fundamental in winning, and took two scoops of sugar in her coffee. Coach, who had made eight cups of coffee that morning while limiting his intake of cream and sugar, got all emotional and upset and she didn't even ask. Coach, seriously, quit over-caffinating. And why should she have to ask for medicine, oh yeah she's not Brandon who would have been forgiven the same offense.

In contrast Ozzy was shown "forcing" Cochran to participate in the slaughter of the rooster, along with Jim, with Jeff telling us that Cochran was always being made the object of ridicule in Savaii. (I don't actually believe he was forced so much as he felt compelled to go along with the decisions made by others, but nonetheless it was Coach who was deciding who was on the outs in Upolu, Cochran just positioned himself that way in Savaii.) Somehow, inexplicable to me, the way Cochran held the rooster's body was funny to Ozzy, became the joke of the day. (I honestly don't get it but that's how it played, even though it takes only one person to wring a chicken's neck and then chop off the dead chicken's head, grossed out as some of you may be to read that, facts is facts.)

In desperation of being outnumbered at the merge, Ozzy then conconcted a plan so ridiculous it might work, and sent himself to Redemption Island to beat Christine and be the returning Savaii Messiah. Well, part of it worked, Ozzy beat Christine, got back together with Savaii, but he sent Cochran to Coach as adouble agent and everything fell apart. Coach, BS artist that he is, managed to convince Cochran that he was Hercules, played on the observations he had made about how disorganized Ozzy had made things in Savaii, and oh gosh Cochran was all like stoked and rewarded and empathised with, and Coach was Zeus the father to his Hercules. And Ozzy even offered Coach a seat at the end, I mean how stupid and desperate was that! Even though he didn't mean it.

Individual assessments to follow.

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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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11-26-11, 01:28 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Thoughts on the Recap Episode"
I don't think Cochran simply positioned himself to be the outsider on Savaii, although his own choices no doubt played a role: part of the blame must also go to the composition of Savaii. The initial fivesome of Elyse, Jim, Keith, Ozzy and Whitney were five young, strong people who were very good in challenges. Even Dawn, though she was older and thus had more problems fitting in, could compete in challenges. And note that the first two boots in Savaii were people who couldn't compete in challenges (Semhar and Papa Bear), although Ozzy's growing closeness to Semhar also played a role in her eviction as did her failure to control her emotions.

What does this have to do with Cochran's role as the outsider? He was young ... but he certainly wasn't strong. The others could use challenges and Redemption Island as a way of moving forward in the game; Cochran couldn't. He had to rely on his strategic and social game ... and with Ozzy being so weak in the former area, that wouldn't help Cochran out much. That said, his efforts in the social game probably came off as trying too hard and hurt Cochran's chances further.

So I'd say that the main problem was that Cochran was just too weak to fit in well with a tribe that was full of people who could use challenges and Redemption Island to advance in the game and too strategic to get along with people who preferred using challenges rather than strategy (such as Ozzy), but that his own efforts in the social game also contributed to making Cochran the outcast of Savaii.

That's why Cochran would've done much better if he'd been on Upolu from the get-go ... and why Mikayla, despite the fact that at least two people were willing to go to bat for her, would've done better if she'd been on Savaii. They were both on tribes where they just couldn't mesh with the leaders for whatever reason. Mikayla was simply less lucky than Cochran, since she was voted out before the merge while Cochran was allowed to make the merge and thus destroy Savaii.


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Toban 110 desperate attention whore postings
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11-26-11, 02:10 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Thoughts on the Recap Episode"
Regarding why Ozzy thought the way Cochran was holding the chicken was funny - his description of the way C was holding the chicken in front of him, with his head back and eyes shut made it look like Cochran was, um, having intimate relations with the chicken. That's what I got out of it anyway.

From an editing standpoint, I thought Ozzy's description of this event made Ozzy look even more petty and obnoxious than anything else. There was no other need, from an editing standpoint, to include this comment.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-26-11, 08:02 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Thoughts on the Recap Episode"
Ah, that's what was funny. I thought he was making fun of, basically, Cochran's queasiness, which would just be downright mean.
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11-26-11, 08:52 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Thoughts on the Recap Episode"
I thought it was because after he was told that blood would be spurting, he stood there with his mouth open (I would close up the nearest entry points.)

But Toban is more likely right as it seems the blood didn't hit Cochran and the others still found his pose hilarious.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-26-11, 11:01 PM (EST)
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14. "The Individual Games"
LAST EDITED ON 11-27-11 AT 01:30 AM (EST)

One of the things the recap did was bring into better focus the individual positions of many (not all) of the remaining players. The two returning players, Coach and Ozzy, seemed to borrow different aspects of Boston Rob's winning game from last season.

Redemption Island

Ozzy (Savaii). Ozzy tried to be relaxed and have the fun tribe, missing the aspect that Rob was working the game the whole way through no matter how it appeared, making things fun in his tribe was just a piece of the game. His version of fun was more leader of the T-Birds and Pink Ladies than Bill Murray in Meatballs, (which would have been the better way to go). Ozzy ignored the immediate needs of those who didn't fit into his more bohemian tribal view, except when confronted with things head on. With the right mix of personalities it may have worked, but Ozzy didn't pay attention to that either, carrying two players to the merge he would have been better off without. Ozzy made a big move sending himself to RI the first time hoping to return to the game and have Savaii merge at parity with Upolu. He tried a bit to enforce some of the same segregation Rob employed post-merge, inverting don't share their fish into don't share our fish, but he was rebuffed. Now at Redemption Island he has decided to play the gracious host and be non-judgmental, a role which would have served him well earlier in the game. Ozzy has achieved redemption and his failings can be revealed.

Dawn (Savaii). Dawn had trouble fitting into Savaii, stuck to her Mormon values and mom persona as much as possible while trying to play the game, but not being able to play a Pink Lady. Her determination carried her through the game, and she saw clearly how Cochran was being treated and struggling in Savaii. We saw no effort from her to try to correct the problem, so either she didn't try or her efforts just failed. She doesn't really need redemption in any literal sense, though if she returns to the game she will be a big threat since she has been very capable in challenges, and has a lot of respect from everyone as a basically decent person.

Whitney (Savaii). Whitney had a softened edit in the recap, playing nice and somewhat on her southern charms. Her game also had some laughable aspects, as she and Keith planned to hide that they were a couple but proceeded to act like a couple at every turn.

Te Tuna

Coach (Upolu). Coach borrowed the leader/camp counselor aspects of Boston Rob's game with little of the softer edges. He brought his own "honor and integrity" issues to it, forgetting that Rob was willing to break up a couple and alter his main alliance until he had the right mix of followers. Coach has other issues as well, as he can be tempermental and tyranical. He likened himself to Zeus and probably doesn't realize just how aptly he fits that role. The Greeks adored their heroes, like Hercules (Heracles), but their gods were full of faults and could be laughed at or even pitied. Zeus was fickle in love and unpredictable in his anger, merciless in his wrath. Sound familiar, Benjamin? Still, Coach has been in control of the game, and can be surprisingly good, as with how he dealt with and turned Cochran from an enemy into a follower.

Cochran (Savaii). Cochran had trouble fitting in, was reluctant to play in the surf, but in the recap his story becomes one of learning opportunities. While he never believed he would do well in the tribal part of the game, he was willing to take on the challenges of camp life and go outside his comfort zone, as with gutting fish, even though he empathises with being at the bottom of the food chain. He was well liked and humored to some respect, but his introspective nature led him to perhaps see things much differently than others; he became the team mascot, part of the team but apart from the team. Keith using sports metaphors, perhaps Keith was trying to bolster the kid up and tell him to have confidence, but sports metaphors just bounce off Cochran's sarcasmeter. Ozzy may have thought he was creating learning opportunities for Cochran, which were seen by Cochran (and Dawn at times) as Cochran being picked on. In the end he fell for Coach, who spoke a mythic BS he could understand, he got his ego boost. And now he's mascot of Coach. Unfortunately, his isn't the only game that is Coach-dependant.

Brandon (Upolu). Contrasting with Cochran, Brandon is the exact opposite, a bull in a china shop. Brandon has no game, he's out to prove himself and insisting on being hardnosed about every little thing in the world. In short he is everything bad in a religeous nut but almost none of the good. He is rash, extremely judgmental, and viewed as unpredictable, prone to meltdowns. It's kind of a shame he isn't really playing, it would be one heck of a confidence game strategy he's pulling off, there are many tactically sound aspects to the kid's bull in a china shop way of going through Survivor. Rob would have gotten rid of this 19 year old nutling just because, unlike Phil, he's a lot of work and none of the amusement.

Albert (Upolu). Albert is a player but stymied in the game because he feels he needs to make his mark, make the big play, even if it is just re-arranging the boot order slightly. His partner in the game, Sophie, keeps him in check. He may yet be able to shake things up a bit.

Sophie (Upolu). Sophie keeps calm, sees things clearly, but she has a plan and is sticking with the plan. Her game may simply be to let all other games implode, or she may yet have a story, may yet stand out.

Edna and Rick (Upolu). Maybe they're trying to play but mainly they were shown to have concerns about tribal inter-dynamics, they're afraid of Brandon's meltdowns and unpredictability.


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11-27-11, 12:50 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: The Individual Games"
Where's the mind boggling?
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11-26-11, 03:57 PM (EST)
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9. "Post Merge recap"
When the two tribes merged, Coach was less than impressed by his rival Ozzy's survivor skills.
"This is unbelievable. Ozzy has played this game before...Survival isn't sleeping on the floor...Just because you are a beach bum and you have been doing that your whole life doesn't mean you subject your whole tribe to the same kind of punishment...Ozzy; are you kidding me? No wonder you have never won Survivor. No wonder you keep getting blindsided: You are a friggin' idiot."

That is the 4th dig against Ozzy in the recap and the biggest one yet because, from survivalist, we now see Ozzy as a beach bum.

Rick said it was worse than sleeping in a garbage dump.

Coach...saw an opportunity: "...They treat Cochran like dirt. That is not going to stand on Coach Wade's watch."

The next morning, Coach used all his star power to bedazzle Cochran into contemplating a jump from 6th at Savaii to 7th at Upolu.
We are being told that Cochran doesn't have a better deal than 7th. That reinforces Jeff's words during the last episode's TC.

Coach engaged in a story that mixed Greek Mythology with the players left in the game to give self-esteem to Cochran: "No question, Ozzy is Narcissus...He was so infatuated with himself, he became unaware of the world around him. Whitney is Erato...Edna is Echo...You are the most powerful man in the game...Hercules...My name should be Zeus because Zeus if fatherly, he looks after everybody and, if someone wrongs one of his children, he is ruthless in his retribution."

To that, Cochran told us: "Despite Coach's claim that Zeus was a doting father, I seem to remember that he hate all of his children."

Cochran's factual error aside, we are being told that Coach will eat all his children. Calling himself Zeus isn't showing much humility however but Coach has been the father of his family so it somehow fits.

Everybody knows that Ozzy's strengths are in challenges and providing but, for him to find redemption, he knew that he had to play a better social game. On day 20, it would have been a great move if he had used his talents to make some friends in the old Upolu tribe.

Jeff is telling us that Ozzy cannot find redemption on Redemption Island. Ozzy missed his opportunity.

Ozzy: "Once you get to the merge, being a provider becomes a liability...Part of me was telling me that it was a shame we had to share all this food with the former Upolu members... I'm trying to keep my tribe strong and unified as much as possible."

Dawn had to tell him not to be mean.
Brandon noticed Ozzy's rudeness and told us: "That is going to bite him in the butt."

Ozzy tried to use his social game to play Coach. Little did he know that Coach was playing him too.

We heard Ozzy offering to screw his tribe to play with Coach to the end.

Coach wasn't blind: "Dude! Was I born yesterday? Nietzche once said: "When you have more arrogance, you have less wisdom. I don't want to say that Coach is in control but I really think that I am in control. In this game the weak will become the strong..."

At Tribal Council, Cochran...signed his old tribe's death warrant.

Even with Savaii's numbers dwindling, keeping the Upolu family intact was a constant struggle...Brandon's antics...he was becoming a liability.

"Ozzy was great at fishing...we are starving...we have the chicken."

Instead he lost the chicken which led to Rick telling us that it's easy to kill a chicken.
Coach told us Brandon should pay for his screw-up.
Albert agreed: "He is so impulsive...I don't know if I feel comfortable investing my trust in him."

Jeff told us that Brandon's instability wasn't the only threat facing Coach's leadership: Albert's selfish ambitions surfaced when he pitched Sophie on a plot to break up the family: "If we get Brandon next, using Whitney and Dawn..."
Sophie cut him off: "We can't do that...There's no point..."

In confessional, she said: "Albert thinks he has a great strategic mind but he hasn't come up with one good idea yet. His latest plan is to get Brandon. I don't see the point of that because everyone will go along with getting out Savaii. Everyone will go along with getting Brandon and Edna first. The last thing that I want is for things to get shaken up. Albert is always wanting to make a big move and sometimes I just think that he wants to make a big move just for the hell of it."

Jeff's words and Sophie's confessional really killed Albert's story.

Just like in the episode, Sophie had a confessional about the plans of others before the end. It was quite reasonable and will give hope to her fans but Jeff had been telling us that Albert's plans were a threat to Coach. Therefore, it stands to reason that, if things aren't shaken up, they favor Coach, not Sophie. The recap, much like the season, told us that Sophie doesn't deserve to win because she isn't ready to shake things up at all.

Cochran was the star of the recap but it showed him as a player on a Journey. He doesn't fit in the themes of leadership and humility. We weren't reminded that his reason for flipping was to take the game in his own hands, it was because Coach bedazzled him with his star power. Mostly, Jeff told us that Cochran only has 7th place but the previews do not show Cochran as a boot target which is a really bad sign for him. His journey still seems incomplete. Imagining that he will go to RI and beat Ozzy would certainly fulfill that journey but that is harder to imagine than him getting the votes in the end!

The recap told us that it was Coach's game. He has the leadership and he shaped Upolu into his family much sooner than we had been led to believe. There is a reason why the edit of his allies pale in comparison to his. Humility is still a problem in his story but we have had numerous occasions to see that Coach is more humble than in previous seasons. With Humility becoming a theme, his "I am not worthy" scene takes on a whole new importance.

Maybe Sophie's story can brighten with a few immunity wins. If she's the one that beats Ozzy in the end then the viewers could see her as a deserving winner but even Danielle didn't get credit for being the one that finally eliminated Terry.

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11-26-11, 07:36 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Post Merge recap"
I agree with you that Jeff's words and Sophie's confessional killed Albert's story. I also agree with you that if things are shaken up, they favor Coach. However, I'd add that they favor Sophie as well because another theme of this season is, "Big moves aren't always such a great idea." And Sophie was the one that was shown as involved in killing Albert's "big move", not Coach.

Also, we saw how badly Ozzy's big move of going to Redemption Island, returning to the merge and having Cochran pretend to be a double agent failed miserably (the returning to the merge part worked out, having Cochran pretend to be a double agent backfired because Cochran became a double agent for real!) And now Cochran's flipping will be seen as a big move that isn't going to work out for him. Since Coach and Sophie haven't been the ones making big moves or planning to make big moves, they should be all right.

As for Coach, I agree that the recap is his story and that the reference to the father eating his children implies that Coach will eat his "children", but that could be a bad thing as well. After all, his "children" won't really be eaten, they will be on the jury and they might be mad at him for betraying them. That might also be a reason for Coach's not winning, with the theme of the person making "big moves" or thinking of making big moves failing is the reason for Albert not winning.

Which leaves us with only one person: Sophie. And therefore I propose that the final Tribal Council editing will come down to choosing between either Coach or Sophie. And as for the idea that just because she took down Ozzy that doesn't mean she should automatically be considered a deserving winner, you're right in using Danielle's example, but Danielle didn't get the credit for taking down Terry because Danielle lost to Aras.

I guess I'm just being a "devil's advocate" here and pointing out that Sophie still has a shot at winning even if she fades into the background behind all the larger-than-life people.


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11-26-11, 10:20 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Post Merge recap"
Great analysis as usual, Michel! After watching this recap, I really don't want any of them to win! Obviously, players with a story are Coach, Cochran, Ozzy, Albert, and Sophie. Albert and Ozzy had rather negative edits. Sophie is only shown reacting to Albert's strategies. What is her story? Cochran I think was supposed to receive a sympathetic edit, but I agree with Stephen Fishbach. Maybe he was ostracized, but my goodness, it is Survivor. I still find Coach hypocritical. If Cochran had been on Upolu and wasn't in the 5 alliance, Coach would not be so kind to him. Coach's actions and attitude are much worse than Ozzy's. He treated those not in the 5 or 6 very badly, as we could tell with Mikayla.

Also, I disagree with Coach that it was Ozzy's job to build a proper shelter. Ozzy and Coach are players, not Survivor coaches or leaders. I agree that the others look to them for advice, but if there are no returning players, shelters do get built. If they wanted a proper shelter, they could have built it. Why put all the blame on Ozzy, especially if he doesn't use it?

Slider

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11-27-11, 03:33 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Post Merge recap"
But Slider, you are projecting your own feelings into this. The important things to consider is what the players and Jeff tell us. Jeff, Rick and Coach said the poor shelter was Ozzy's fault so that is what we have to consider. The tribe with the best shelter almost always win. Fiji proved that. As for Cochran being ostracized; Dawn, Coach and Jeff told us he was. As far as I know, Stephen is just a viewer.

You ask about Sophie's story: From what I can tell it's "don't do a thing". If that is a winning story then we have reached the bottom of the barrel.

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11-27-11, 05:13 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Post Merge recap"
I have a slightly different view of Sophie's story. I don't think it's "don't do a thing;" I think it's "don't make big moves for the sake of making big moves" or "make sure the big move works before you try it."

As I said, look at all the others who did "big moves": Jim made a "big move" in getting rid of Elyse; he's now out of the game. Ozzy made a "big move" in volunteering to go to Redemption Island, beat Christine, return to the game at the merge and feed Upolu false information with Cochran as the "double agent"; although he managed to beat Christine and return to the game, Cochran became a double agent for real and now Savaii is pretty much out of the game. And last but not least, Cochran made a "big move" in flipping over to Upolu, although he had plenty of incentive; and the recap is implying that too might have been an error and thus hurts Cochran's chances. Albert has been thinking of making big moves but hasn't been successful at them, partly due to Coach, partly due to Sophie; this might keep him from getting voted out but the fact that he thought of making the big moves isn't a good thing for his endgame.

Sophie has not only avoided making the "big moves", she's been credited with keeping Albert from making them. If the theme is "don't make big moves just for the sake of making them," then she has to be considered a possible candidate for the win, no matter what you think, Michel.


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11-29-11, 09:51 AM (EST)
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18. "RE: Post Merge recap"
Well, I feel that any remaining chance Sophie had of eking out a win went out the window with that recap. That was pretty much the last chance they had to set her up as a contender worthy of the play she displaying in the weekly Insider clips and they all but ignored her in the Coach and Cochran Show.

I'll admit the recrap elevated Coach's chances somewhat, but I feel like he's either (a) being set up for a late game distraction to lose as the eventual 2nd place getter or (b) he's going to get a big blindside. Most likely the former.

I just can't shake the feeling that we're being beaten over the head that Cochran CAN'T POSSIBLY WIN. And the only reason they'd do this is so it can be a big huge shock when he does. *shrugs* That's my gut anyway, hopefully it's more successful than Lex's (RIP Kelly Wigglewalk).

Here's my (spoiler-FREE) thoughts more in depth of the remaining contestants odds and chances..

http://glennyfromtheblock.com/2011/11/30/survivor-south-pacific-a-handy-scorecard-for-the-race-to-the-finish-line/

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11-29-11, 12:35 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Post Merge recap"
>But Slider, you are projecting your
>own feelings into this. The
>important things to consider is
>what the players and Jeff
>tell us.

Michel, you've been doing this all season with your own feelings on Cochran, who is much more polarizing that you will ever admit. In addition to your championing of his story, you've found every way possible to manipulate what we've seen to disparage Ozzy.

I don't really care that this is the way you are interrupting things, as reasonable people can differ, however you shouldn't be warning others of doing the same thing you've been guilty of since the start.

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11-29-11, 03:00 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Post Merge recap"
LAST EDITED ON 11-29-11 AT 03:01 PM (EST)

LOL "interrupting things." This has to go into the Blows lexicon.

But, yes, it is often the words we employ that are most revealing. I don't see Sophie as a "do nothing" player but as someone who has a plan and is sticking to the plan. In the race between the tortoise and the hare, gonzo TV editors prefer to focus on the hare who is exciting but loses while slow and steady the tortoise reaches the finish line.

Slider's view of Coach's view of Ozzy's handling of Savaii, rather than taken as telling of Ozzy, is Coach-centric. A valid perspective. The people in Savaii could have done things differently despite having Ozzy in their tribe, they didn't. But Coach would have done things differently, Coach would have handled Savaii the Coach way! And Coach got very emotional about it.

Interesting. In my view this is Coach's game right now, but he is quite capable of torpedoing his chances on his own, and giving vent to his emotions is one of those ways. He is entering a phase of the game he has never before navigated; dismantling his own alliance (his own community) while getting himself to Final. He can be a petty tyrant.

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11-29-11, 07:09 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Post Merge recap"
LAST EDITED ON 11-29-11 AT 07:10 PM (EST)

I post the dialogue so that what I say sticks to what was said as closely as possible. I didn't disparage Ozzy; I listened to what was being said. Rick said his shelter was worse than sleeping in a garbage dump. How can that be interpreted any other way than a dig at Ozzy? All the other digs come from the same source: The edited material.

As for Cochran, I said he could win mostly because we heard that he could. He himself said all he had to do was put his negative thoughts behind, Ozzy said Cochran had the necessary passion and then he told Cochran he could win. Again, that is the edited material.

We heard from Dawn, from Jeff and from Coach that Cochran wasn't treated right by Savaii. That is what was said. If one of us says that it wasn't that bad then that person is substituting his own judgment to what the editors told us. As far as I know, this is the editing thread.

I really don't give a damn about Cochran but it seemed that it was his story. Now, when Jeff mentions Sophie in a recap maybe she will have the start of the beginning of a story.

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12-03-11, 00:02 AM (EST)
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22. "Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
Since day 1, Coach has been a driving force in an impenetrable alliance of five and he added Edna as a sixth.
Brandon shattered any hope that Edna had of moving up in the pecking order.
At the merge, the two tribes were dead even...But Coach somehow managed to convince Cochran to jump from 6th at the old Savaii to 7th in his alliance.

With the numbers advantage, the old Upolu tribe picked off the old Savaii tribe one by one.
With Ozzy, Dawn and Whitney on Redemption Island, we heard Jeff comment from the previous Tribal Council: “The good news is that the 7 of you have accomplished your goal, the bad news is that there’s nowhere left to hide. This game is about to change.”

Really Jeff? Change? Nothing has changed because nothing happened. The recap had to go back to day 1 to tell us that something did happen during the season: Coach formed an alliance, they stuck together and at the merge, Coach tricked Cochran. That is the only story of the season and all the build-up of Savaii in general and of Cochran in particular was just to hide the fact that nothing happened.

Camp – Night 27

Coach: “We have seven left and they are all part of the family so we have to start sending home some of our own.”

Edna was worried about seeing her name on ballots.

Edna: “Coming back from Tribal, it gives you a sense of paranoia because people start having ideas floating around: Who is 5, 6 or seven and who is not in that top 4?”

Cochran: “Tribal Council was alarming for me because it was made clear that I was the person that was going in 7th place. I am aware that the family can turn on me at any moment… Helter Skelter.”

Cochran talked about crank calls he made as a kid.

Sophie: “I always felt that his personality is something that Cochran has going for him out here. When I first came here, I felt bad for Cochran, seemed like people bullied him but I can see now why people got annoyed with him. I get frustrated by the kind of air that he puts on. I think he is really proud of the move he made, I think he still thinks that somebody will take him to the end. I don’t like him.”

Sophie voices the opinion of a large segment of the audience that didn’t really like Cochran. In a nutshell, this also sums up the story of the season: At first we were supposed to feel bad for Cochran but then that story was simply dropped. The only problem with this confessional from Sophie is that we had heard that Cochran would have been a great F3 opponent so we are left to ask if she didn’t miss an opportunity.

Cochran: “There has always been that cult quality to the Upolu family…You can’t help but think of Charles Manson…Brandon in particular seems obsessively devout to the point where he seems to suppress something more scary…I don’t want to be Sharon Tate.”

Cochran’s references to Charles Manson, Helter Skelter and Sharon Tate are interesting. According to him, Brandon is the scary one which could make him Charles Manson. Then we were shown the axe-wielding Sophie!

For fun, I counted how many chops we heard from her: She took four stabs with the metallic flint, 4 more big chops with the axe and then, as the camera panned around camp, we heard 8 more before Cochran began to talk. 16 in total.
Then, I read this:
The coroner’s report for Tate noted that she had been stabbed sixteen times…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharon_Tate#Murder

Are the editors hinting that Sophie is Susan Atkins?!!


Cochran gathered the tribe and pleaded to be given a chance to go further because he had sacrificed a lot for them and it was his birthday in three days.

Sophie: “Cochran said: “A lot of you feel indebted to me”. I don’t feel indebted to you. Screw you. He made an awful move, he should have stuck to his tribe.”

Albert, contradicting Sophie, told the group that Cochran made a valid point. Coach agreed with Albert’s version.

Coach: “Albert and I see that we do owe Cochran another day in this game. If we can pull just one more vote to keep Cochran. We’ve gotten down to seven, everybody is fighting to be standing at the bitter end.”

It is weird to see the opposition between Sophie on one side and Coach and Albert on the other. Which is it? Does Upolu owe Cochran? Does that even mean anything on Survivor? It’s a repeat of the argument between Jim and Coach at a previous Tribal Council: Should Cochran be punished for not being loyal or should he be rewarded for standing up for himself? Same question but the answer is different this time.

The Challenge

There may have been some suspense to this challenge at first but when Dawn dropped her plates, it became obvious that Ozzy would win another round.
Both women had nice final words.

Ozzy: “From this point forward, I am more excited to beat people who are my enemies. I have to rely on myself winning but that is what I do best and that’s the way that I want to win this game.” After the break, we joined Ozzy on RI: “I can survive out here, I can keep getting stronger. This is my home…this is how I am playing the second half of my game and there is no one better suited to be out here than me.”

Since there is little doubt in camp, Ozzy’s presence on RI has to serve to create doubt. Can he accomplish his goal? The recap told us he won’t but should we rely on the recap?

It was laundry day according to Edna.

Albert: “This is Survivor. It’s the ultimate strategy game. The players in my alliance don’t think it’s Outwit, Outplay, Outlast, they think it’s Outclean, Outgather, Outorganize. To me, this game is about doing well in challenges, creating a good strategy and playing a strong social game. That is what I am focused on, I will leave the housework to Martha Stewart.”

Brandon was out fishing and Cochran was “helping”.

Cochran, holding a tiny fish, had a confessional: “Whatever it takes to feed my tribe, I am willing to put my ife in danger.”

In camp, Albert spilled the water out of the bucket that had the clothes.

Edna: “Albert proceeded to lay in the hammock and watch me for two hours while I did the laundry. When I stepped away from the laundry for one minute, I come back and the fire has been dowsed out and the ambers are wet…That was so infuriating. Albert does pretty much nothing except lie around, eat fish and wait for other people to wait on him.”

Coach, walking by, added: “I don’t think Albert has done a day of work in his life.”

Then Edna told Rick about Albert’s laziness.

Rick: “Albert does precious little in camp. He’s like one of those Barbie Dolls. They look really cute but they don’t do a damn thing but sit there. That’s why I call him Prince Albert. It’s like “I’m the Prince and you work for me.” It just kills me”

Edna then asked Coach if she was next after Cochran and Coach said that he thought so.

Edna: “I am basically the next person to go after Cochran which tells me I am pretty low on the totem pole. I have to shake it up right now because 6th or 7th is not acceptable for me.”

Coach: “Keeping Edna and Cochran would be the best thing for me to do because they are never going to vote me out. So, it’s really like a catch-22: Which side do I go with at this point? Do I honor my word, be a man of integrity and stick with the five or do I go on another route? Nothing is for sure in this game.”

Day 30

Coach and Cochran did some “Coach chi”.

Coach: “There is this one player on every team that you give every thing to. It’s why you teach or coach and that’s why I play Survivor: To find that one student that wants to learn…I feel like I do owe Cochran, I owe him some kind of hope going into the challenge. You never know what type of challenge it is going to be. Maybe it will empower him.”

This ties in with what Ozzy told Cochran pre-merge about going to Redemption Island. Is it a hint that Ozzy shouldn’t be too confident in his next duel? What possible type of challenge would favor Cochran? 21 flags?

Coachran: “Coach Chi, despite all the jokes…is something valuable for me to do. I usually have these conflicting goals floating around in my head…Now, all the stress has exited…”

The Challenge
Fun comments:
“Albert hung on the edge and then fell off.”
“Cochran a little short.”

Having practiced previously, it wasn’t surprising to see Albert win. Like so many athletes these days, he gave thanks to the Lord after.
(This tells us he isn’t just going through the motions when Upolu prays.)

Asked to choose one person to participate in the reward, Albert picked Coach (we know he loves a massage!). Then, surprisingly, he gave his own reward to Cochran, the birthday boy.

Cochran: “There are two possible explanations. One: He wants to work strategically with me…Two: It was a sweet farewell gift to make me like him before I inevitably join the jury.”

Coach: “Every thing was laid out for Coachran and I…”

Cochran: “I’ve never had a massage. I’m happy to see that a stupid little white lie about my birthday, which actually happened 6 months ago, is helping me somewhat in this game.”

During the massage, Coach said: “I will fight for my man Cochran to my last dying breath.”

Cochran then told us he wanted to see what Albert was thinking.
Albert said it didn’t look very good because he didn’t think Coach was ready to make a move against Rick.
Cochran said Coach was ready, adding that Rick calls Albert “Princess”.

Albert: “Rick is about as sharp as a bowling ball. I hear that he is chirping in the background, calling names, dropping a princess here and there… I have a mind right now to get rid of Rick this vote.”

Cochran then told Edna that the vote could go against Rick.
Edna was on board.

Edna: “Albert caught wind that Rick was calling him Princess Albert because he doesn’t do anything around camp. Cochran and I are trying to use that information to get Coach to come with us to vote Rick off.”

Edna also told Cochran that they owed him.

Cochran then told Coach that, if he was on board, they had 4 votes to get rid of Rick.
Coach paused for a long time. We didn’t hear him give an answer to Cochran.

Coach: “My decision tonight and which way I go is going to determine the rest of this game. There is a tide that’s coming. I either take it and go with the new alliance or stay with my first five. William Shakespeare says: “There is a tide that comes in the lives of men that, when taken, leads to great fortunes but when omitted, all the rest of their lives are bound in shadows and misery. I want to make sure that I make the right decision, I want to make sure that I take the right tide so that I can take that tide to the end of this game that I love so dearly.”

Despite the inaccuracies in the quote from Julius Ceasar, Coach still delivered a powerful winning quote.

Tribal Council

Asked about the vote, Coach said: “I think the possibilities are endless…Nobody really knows if they are going to the Final 3…There’s a new scenario that is presented to me, to Albert and to everybody here, every hour.”
Cochran said: “I’m sure that it is going to fill the jury with glee to discover that I am in great danger tonight. I feel like an idiot…I gave life to this tribe and to be targeted 7th, it’s a little bit humiliating.”
Albert added: “It isn’t good for our image to, quote unquote, use and abuse someone.”
Sophie frowned at that.
Coach told Jeff: “We are in this good standing because Cochran made a move that some people consider cowardice, others, including myself, thought it was bold and courageous.”
Rick said he was worried, that he had his bags packed but didn’t want to go.
Edna said she felt like she was 6th. “I feel like I have already been deceived.” She added that she was looking for a little crack.
That’s when Brandon intervened: “Everybody here knows what is going to happen with these two. Tonight, I am voting out Cochran and then the next night I am voting out Edna.”
Turning to Coach, Jeff said: “Brandon poses a huge problem to those in his alliance: He is not malleable.”
Coach said it was both a blessing and a curse: “If you are with him, you know he is not going to turn on you but you are also afraid that he is going to spill the applecart.”
In pain, Brandon said that something inside him wouldn’t let him do wrong things. “Anything worth having is not going to be easy.”
Coachran said that Brandon wasn’t the best strategic partner: “Talking strategy with Brandon is like talking to you about shirts that aren’t blue.”
Asked about the problem that Brandon could cause, Sophie said: “I think, right now, the way our tribe is, I am not concerned about anything happening with the game.”
Interrupting, Cochran asked: “If Edna wins immunity, what happens?”
Jeff was impressed; “Wow” he said.
Coach, Albert and Rick seemed curious to hear her answer but Sophie only said: “Then it starts.”
Jeff said: “This has been an eye opening Tribal, hasn’t it?”
Sophie disagreed: “No” she said.
Jeff was surprised by that attitude.
Cochran told Jeff that he was very frustrated and humiliated after making one of the most idiotic moves in the history of the game.
Still on the same track, Jeff concluded by saying: “It has been one of the most interesting and revealing Tribal Councils of the season...It is time to vote.”
<Of course, the camera was on Sophie when Jeff said that.>

Coach winked at Rick when Jeff went to tally the votes telling us how he had voted.
Whitney gave an “I told you so” pat on Dawn’s shoulder.

Jeff ended the evening by saying: “There was a lot of information revealed tonight and your future in this game will be determined by what you do with it.”
Again, Sophie was shown.

The Story

It really comes down to two alternate endings: Either Sophie wins and nothing will happen in the game or Coach wins because, out of the endless possibilities, he took the right tide. Which one will it be?

I will say that Coach is right for multiple reasons. First, Jeff repeated three times that this Tribal Council revealed a lot of informations. Sophie disagreed with our host and that is never a good sign. Even worse: We saw that she was stumped by Cochran’s remark.
Also, Brandon gave more weight to Coach winning in the end when he said: “Anything worth having is not going to be easy.”
In addition, Coach is the one involved in all the stories: He talked to Cochran about his predicament. He discussed the situation with Edna. He commented on Albert’s laziness and Brandon’s lack of malleability. Sophie really only talked about Cochran. That means that we have an understanding of what the jury will ask Coach. From what we have seen, the only question that the jury could ask Sophie is: “Who are you?”

The Characters

On Redemption Island:

Ozzy: The editing of this season played a big joke on Savaii so I feel that Ozzy himself could be in for a finish that will embarrass him. Either he will be voted out a third time (giving Brandon and Upolu a chance to do what Cochran boasted he had done; voting him out twice) or he will lose to Cochran in the next duel. He did tell Cochran that all he had to do was believe he could win and now Cochran found “Coach Chi”, a way for him to get rid of his anxieties.

Cochran: Beating Ozzy would explain Cochran’s story but, even if he does, the joke will still be on him. He told us a long time ago that Redemption Island is only a way for continued humiliation so his story can’t recover from this latest humiliation. For all his boasts about knowing the game, Cochran forgot that not everyone is ready to play a strategic game.

Albert: If Cochran was Sharon Tate then Albert was Jay Sebring because this episode served to assassinate his character. Princess Albert cannot survive this much ridicule. Even Coach told us that Albert didn’t work a day in his life.

Sophie: We continued to see the calm and observant Sophie except calm and observant can be easily confused for cold-blooded and calculating. Maybe it was a coincidence that we heard 16 blows when Cochran mentioned the Sharon Tate murder but it does seem like something the editors planned.
Sophie’s main problem is that now she is on record as saying that nothing will happen in the game. If she is right then that means she will have won this game much too easily. I can’t believe that is the message of the season. The editors would want us to see that the winner had to fight for it. Sophie told us she doesn’t have to.

Coach: Will Coach win this season? The Helter Skelter reference should tell us that he is the Charles Manson of the story. After all, he is the one that built this family. But Brandon has been the one that has been portrayed as the scary, crazy guy. Even Cochran, the one that talked about Manson, told us Brandon was the most dangerous one. Maybe that is why we heard Coach saying many times that he wasn’t the leader of the tribe.

Coach’s quote just before Tribal Council can certainly go either way and one could say that he missed the right tide but Coach had talked to us about his catch-22 before. There was no need to add the quote by Shakespeare except that it made him look smart.

Dawn frowned when he went to vote so maybe Coach will have trouble getting the necessary votes but the story has turned his way. His comment about the game he loves reminded us of Rob’s feelings last season.
But I could be wrong! I have been wrong in the past!!

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12-03-11, 02:08 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
More interesting stuff to digest, michel, appreciate all your diligent work.

One thing that needs to be corrected, however, is that Brandon is not Manson in any scenario, scary though he may be. Manson himself did not commit any of the murders of the Manson Family, he was convicted of conspiracy in the seven murders tried, which under California made him equally guilty of murder. He sent his minions out to commit copycat murders, he was the leader of the tribe. Brandon, hard-nosed bull that he is, is no Manson, he's one of the followers of Coach.

It does seem to be Coach's game at this point, though Sophie seems to be the one member of the family immune to the Kool-Aid. She was the one, way way back, who didn't like praying to find an HII she knew had already been found, she calls it like she sees it and is well-grounded. Just not very exciting or babe-alicious.

Albert's game really took a dive this time. He thinks of the game in terms of challenges, strategy, but when it comes to the social game it is all talk and playing nice. Interacting with others, pitching in, eludes him. He'd rather lounge around and then pull a childish act of ruining someone else's hard camplife work. Kind of a shame, I had nothing against Albert up till now, but "fortunate son" is not a smart Survivor game.

Dumping the water on the embers, messing up the laundry, to me it really seemed like a malicious intentional display of childishness. Because, as he previously said, Edna is a vote for Coach to win, so he thinks it is okay to upset her, he loses nothing in the process but displays his disrespect for her work and efforts in the game. Dummy.

Cochran ended the episode saying he felt insulted that Upolu weren't grateful to him. Um, yeah, let's get real. He didn't flip in order to help any of the Upolu in the game, he did it for himself. He flipped because he believed he was going to lose no matter what if he stuck with Savaii, flipping gave him a better chance because there were unknowns in Upolu. Didn't work out. He traded losing one way for losing another way, but other than the paycheck it doesn't actually matter when you lose, losing is losing, that's Survivor.

None of them owed him anything.

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12-03-11, 02:38 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
How is saying that Manson didn't commit murder correcting anything I wrote? Did Brandon murder anyone? Manson was the leader and he was crazy. Brandon has been crazy and in this TC, he was the one that acted as leader, saying Cochran first, Edna next. He did the same when Mikayla was voted out. He's the one designating the next victims.

But Brandon is irrelavant. I'm more interested in what you have to say about the Sophie as Atkins comparison! She was the one holding the "murder weapon"!


"None of them owed him anything."

True, but the important thing is that Coach, Albert, Edna and even Rick, in an Insider clip, said they did owe him. Cochran was told that they owed him so it was normal to try to make them feel guilty.

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12-03-11, 03:36 AM (EST)
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25. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
How is saying that Manson didn't commit murder correcting anything I wrote? I didn't say he didn't commit murder, what I pointed out was that what he was actually convicted for was conspiracy in committing murder. He didn't do the it himself, but he decided it as head of the family.

It is a matter of who is actually in control of things. Manson sent his underlings out to commit the murders per his approval. What I am saying is that Brandon more fits the underling dupe role, Coach is really the Manson in this analogy, Coach is the father figure. Brandon, scary as he may be, is just another dupe to Coach's BS.

Sophie as Atkins? Give me a break. She didn't drink the kool-aid, she isn't cutting a deal with the prosecuters, she's playing Survivor and sticking to a plan that gets her to Final.

That said, at this point I still think Coach wins. Wish it were otherwise, because he is a BS artist, I don't like his schpiel. Dammit.

This is Coach's game to lose at this point.

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12-03-11, 02:35 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
"Sophie as Atkins? Give me a break."

I am not talking about the whole season but for that scene. Look at the camera lingering on her stabbing motion with the flint then her whacks with the axe and then the look of worry on everyone's face as the chopping sounds are heard in the background. No music, just the repetition of that sound. 16 chops in all before Cochran starts talking. Coincidence?

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12-03-11, 08:43 AM (EST)
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26. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
LAST EDITED ON 12-03-11 AT 09:00 AM (EST)

Cochran's mention of the cult atmosphere could only be meant to compare Coach to a cult leader. A week earlier Coach was Godfather (by his own words).

The killing is not the important part of the analogy. Cults have leaders who pull the strings and Coach is leader at Upolu. NOT Brandon. Brandon is the wild card underling who is out of control. His programming needs readjusting or he needs to be terminated.

The editors aren't assigning exact paralells with the followers to specific members ofthe Manson family. They are having some fun. If you want to see Sophie As Susan Atkins, go ahead and smile at the macabre comparison as she whacks. I did.

Brandon could be Bobby Beausoleil.

Personal anecdote: my first husband was once detained and questioned by a sheriff because he supposedly looked like one of the Manson family hanging out--one of their hangouts was not far from where we lived. This was in late 1969.

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12-03-11, 02:30 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
>
>The editors aren't assigning exact paralells
>with the followers to specific
>members of the Manson family.
>They are having some fun.
> If you want to
>see Sophie As Susan Atkins,
>go ahead and smile at
>the macabre comparison as she
>whacks. I did.

That's the way I see it also. It made me smile because I do think the parallel was intentional. The 16 stabs are quite noticeable. So we have a cult, one crazy guy that needs to be terminated and a killer.


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12-03-11, 09:45 AM (EST)
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27. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
Always such a fine read after an episode from you, michel. I really respect your assessments and it's easy to see that you put alot of thought into your posts. I love reading what you have to say.

Cochran was really a decoy this season. I thought that Sophie was the voice of alot of folks in the audience, therefore giving her assessment credibility. At least I see it the way she sees it. I don't see it the way Coach sees it. I also agreed with her comments to Jiffy during the tribal council. Sophie seems to be the voice of the audience. That tribal council may have revealed something to Jiffy, but it sure didn't to us, the viewers, and as she noted it didn't reveal anything new to her either.

Regarding her comment to Cochran when he proposed what would happen if Edna were to win an immunity....that would be nothing new either. We have seen this over and over in Survivor. The person that needs it the most does and can win immunity. Game on. That is what gains favor among the audience, that is why some of us really loved Ozzy in his first season, because he needed it more than anyone, and he took it.

I was so disappointed in Cochran. I did see a cocky talk from him, and I never understood why he thought that not taking the risk of the rock was safer than sticking with his tribe. I wanted him to commit to his tribe and work with them until he had to really manuever things to his favor. He could have done it, imo. Odds were that one of the Upolu's would have drawn the rock, so the Savaii's could have picked them off one by one. Then with Ozzy, Keith, and Jim there, I'm sure he could have laid low or at least worked with others to get the big dogs out...I think he could really have had a chance to end up in the finals. All jumping did was to make him leave in 7th, whereas worst case scenario if he stayed with his tribe would have been 6th. So, for me, Cochran cared more about just making any kind of move, he's a DAW, plain and simple.

So, it seems that Sophie has pegged the remaining game pretty dead on. I agree with Brownroach when he noted her stock starting to go up. It will, from what I can tell, maybe come down to Coach and Sophie. I can still hope that it comes down to Coach, Sophie, and Ozzy.

Regarding the comment you made about Ozzy, that the recrap told us he will not win. While I do think Coach could pull this out, clearly, I thought the recrap was just as unkind to Coach. So, from my point of view, if the recrap told us that Ozzy can't win, then it also told us that Coach can't win. Personally, I still think that they both can still win...



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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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12-03-11, 03:12 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
LAST EDITED ON 12-03-11 AT 03:15 PM (EST)

>Always such a fine read after
>an episode from you, michel.

Thank you very much. I always enjoy your point of view also.


>Cochran was really a decoy this
>season. I thought that Sophie
>was the voice of alot
>of folks in the audience,
>therefore giving her assessment credibility.

As I noted above, I agree but only up to a point. The audience is looking for entertainment, not credibility.

> I also agreed with her comments
>to Jiffy during the tribal
>council. Sophie seems to be
>the voice of the audience.
>That tribal council may have
>revealed something to Jiffy, but
>it sure didn't to us,
>the viewers, and as she
>noted it didn't reveal anything
>new to her either.

Pardon the question but you do follow spoilers, don't you? The spoiled part of the audience didn't learn anything from that tribal council but the "ignorants" certainly did. 99% of the audience didn't know for sure what was going to happen before the episode started. Some of them were still hoping for something to happen even if they could read the writing on the wall as the episode unfolded.

Anyway, I only need to say that Jiffy is always right. I knew Cochran's goose was cooked when Jeff scolded him at F9 for not seizing his opportunity to make the big move.

>I was so disappointed in Cochran.
>I did see a cocky
>talk from him, and I
>never understood why he thought
>that not taking the risk
>of the rock was safer
>than sticking with his tribe.
>I wanted him to commit
>to his tribe and work
>with them until he had
>to really manuever things to
>his favor. He could have
>done it, imo. Odds were
>that one of the Upolu's
>would have drawn the rock,
>so the Savaii's could have
>picked them off one by
>one. Then with Ozzy, Keith,
>and Jim there, I'm sure
>he could have laid low
>or at least worked with
>others to get the big
>dogs out...I think he could
>really have had a chance
>to end up in the
>finals. All jumping did was
>to make him leave in
>7th, whereas worst case scenario
>if he stayed with his
>tribe would have been 6th.

As I wrote in the ECST, I think Cochran played a few on-line games before. Have you played any? I can tell you from experience that, in those games, you almost never see a pagonging. It's as if you are playing against a dozen Cesterninos on steroids.

Even in the real game, there should have been a crack in the Upolu tribe. Rick and Brandon aren't playing the game and Edna woke up too late. That was Cochran's problem.

If he had stayed with Savaii, he was sure to lose and could have exited 12th. With his move, he had a shot but he needed others to make moves also.


>
>Regarding the comment you made about
>Ozzy, that the recrap told
>us he will not win.
>While I do think Coach
>could pull this out, clearly,
>I thought the recrap was
>just as unkind to Coach.
>So, from my point of
>view, if the recrap told
>us that Ozzy can't win,
>then it also told us
>that Coach can't win. Personally,
>I still think that they
>both can still win...

Coach really only had the fat cooking scene work against him. Ozzy had 6 or 7 scenes laughing at him. But you are right, they both can still win. I think Ozzy is doomed but I can't be sure of that. The only thing I can say for sure is that Ozzy's stock has gone down for me over the years while Coach's has (slightly) gone up.

I enjoyed King Neptune's story in CI even if I saw Oscar, the Narcissus side of Ozzy, much too often. I realized that Oscar was a dumbass in Micronesia when he had to be led by the hand by Cirie, would have been blindsided if Chet wasn't so Chet and he was an arrogant bastard to Tracy and Ami. And this season was more of the same when the entitled Oscar resurfaced.

I laughed at the fool of Tocantins and I saw his irrelevance in HvV but I have been surprised by Coach's game this season. I believe the editors have had something to do with my changing attitude towards the pair.

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12-03-11, 05:44 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
The only thing I can say for sure is that Ozzy's stock has gone down for me over the years while Coach's has (slightly) gone up.

Well, there is no way that I can argue with that statement. Ozzy was great, I thought, in his first season. He played the way that I can respect. And, I didn't see him as arrogant. He was downright foolish in Micronesia....and Cirie had him pegged. I agree. He got what he deserved, he wasn't really playing the game. He was out of touch and too distracted.

I knew someone like Ozzy would have a hard time again. He is NOT a leader of a group. He seems to me like he is far more comfortable as a loner, as he is on RI. He had to lead though, because he was the seasoned veteran. I agreed with Dawn on day one, he was a little too "Bob Marley". But, it is what it is. I saw glimpses of the old Ozzy after he was humbled when Elyse was booted. Ozzy's stock has gone down through the seasons. I also don't like how he rubs it in all of their faces....I will be nice and feed you and then send you on your way....If you ask me, Ozzy is a fish out of water in the social arena. I just think he's really ignorant as to how to get along with others.

I still would like to see him make it to the finals. I don't know though, time will tell! As for Coach, clearly he has honed his game to be far better than either of the other seasons. When you put him in with a Hantz, you can't help but to root for him. But, Coach and his warrior BS...I think he's played the best game so far though, no doubt about it.



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12-03-11, 05:50 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
Here are my comments:

It's true that the audience is looking for entertainment, but that's most of the audience. The hard-core strategists are probably looking for credibility as well. And I think both Coach & Sophie are credible there. Coach is just larger-than-life and more entertaining.

Cochran would have lost if he'd remained with Savaii anyway. Although it's unlikely he would've gone in twelfth, there was still a chance that he would have done so. But if most of the "cool kids" had realized how insecure Cochran felt, they might have reassured him the way Coach reassured the outliers on Upolu, and Cochran might have felt more comfortable in taking the risk of the purple rock.

Although it's theoretically possible that Ozzy can win, I really doubt it and I think it's more likely that Coach will win (at least when compared to Ozzy). The editing is partly responsible for this, but so are Ozzy and Coach's own actions towards the outliers on their tribe (for the most part), as well as the actions of each guy's tribemates. Albert & Sophie may have wanted to keep Mikayla, but it was probably because they saw Mikayla as a back-up plan for them -- and they lost anyway. Jim, Cochran and Dawn wanted to get rid of Elyse in order to weaken Ozzy -- and they won. So Coach had more success pre-merge than Ozzy and of course, he had much more success post-merge than Ozzy.


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12-04-11, 05:09 PM (EST)
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33. "Answer to editing question"
Well I guess next week I finally get the answer to the John edit question I've had from almost the start. I've mentioned before that one of the big problems I had with the idea of John winning was the fact that we were shown at least a few times John equating RI with leaving the game. I've wondered if the editors would show the winner having so little confidence that he could win some carnival games to get back in the real game.

So next week I get to find out if the editors showed John saying that because he was telling us the truth and he leaves the game because he can't win a duel. Or I find out that the editors showed us that because in the most extreme of ironies, it turns out that the king of no self-confidence actually beats the challenge king Ozzie.

Logically, and based on John's past challenge performances, I've got to assume Ozzy wins, but I'm also keeping in mind that stranger things have happened and John could win. Either way at least I get one nagging question answered.

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12-05-11, 10:23 AM (EST)
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34. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
I wonder if we should throw out the entire pre-merge storyline, then? Ozzy's "winning quote" said that he wanted one of the Savaii to win the game, and that's probably not going to happen. The "anything worth having is not going to be easy" quote probably doesn't apply to Ozzy or Coach (presumably they're both having the toughest time... or easiest, not sure which!)

I was all set to dump my Albert-wins theory in favor of Michel's Cochran-wins theory, too! Oh well.

So... Coach wins? Villain winners aren't as satisfying, but there are so few heroes left this season (Ozzy yes, Sophie mmmaybe?)... but I'll take it as a consolation prize.

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12-05-11, 12:03 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
Either Coach or Sophie wins. That's my guess.


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12-06-11, 06:58 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
UGH. After that episode I'm totally flummoxed. Not to mention not being too far off being back to square one. I've been riding the Cochran Wins Train since maybe episode 3. Now, it's not unimaginable that he defeats Ozzy next week (and, indeed, this in part would go a ways to justifying the innordinate amount of attention he's received, plus tying up a lot of other loose editing ends), but I don't forsee a way he returns from RI with at least one massive endurance/physical challenge undoubtedly in store for the F5 RI battle. If Brandon has a gets booted and has a breakdown, maybe. Same against maybe Edna. But that's it. I just don't know anymore.

Has his whole entire edit been one massive red herring? If there had been a surplus of scenes leading us to believe he triumphed against the odds then sure. But the whole story to me seems to have been how there was no possible way male-Eliza could possibly win a FTC, no matter what. All of that heavy-handed exposition coupled with a key scene each episode explaining his strategy for overcoming that stigma made me really think this was the winners story. I'm not ready to abandon it just yet, not til he loses a duel slash truel, but it's obviously a lot less likely now.

So who then? Coach definitely seems a lock for FTC, but I just really think they would never have shown all the negative looney tunes cult leader prayer worship if he did. Considering they've excluded so much other negative footage of him if the bootee interviews were to be believed (quite a few have said there was a fair share of Coach 1.0 tall tales being told still). Plus, even though I don't normally let the exit interviews bias me in an editing thread, it is worth noting that Coach, not Cochran seems to get the most vehemently negative feedback from the prospective jurors. Barring Jim, the rest could conceivably still vote Cochran, but Coach I would find harder to believe.

The only other option is Sophie, who has been my E1&2 pick to win and my back up pick since. I just don't know still why they have avoided showing so many excellent, concise winning strategy confessionals from her. This weeks EW secret scene is yet ANOTHER scene that I'd be shocked they didn't include if she won. Plus, I felt this episode was a bit of a character assassination of her. She got all the negativity for the Cochran boot, even though it was really Coach's fault. Personally, I though the way she handled TC was ferociously cool and kickass and made me love her even more (which I didn't think was possible at this point), but I'm hesitant to think they'd show a winner so adamantly disagreeing with the host.

No one else at this point stands a chance. Every plan Albert makes fails. Rick is a cypher. Edna disappears for episodes on end (even when she's a boot target) unless it's absolutely essential. Ozzy spent a good portion see-sawing betweeen has been and douche. Brandon is, well, Brandon. The way I see it, I'm still Cochran > Sophie > Coach, but the gaps between those three are shrinking a lot..

Michel - I'd love to know you're feedback on these points on Sophie. It has me absolutely buffaloed...

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12-06-11, 09:53 AM (EST)
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37. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
Sometimes it's easy to look back and go "ok, clearly that was a scene they're going to use at the reunion special as they go to/cut from commercials." I'm thinking Fabio, especially, had a lot of those.

Who has those "Fabio-like" moments this season? Sophie and Albert do not, unless they turn Alberts failures into successes (or a montage of irony). Coach and Brandon do, although both seem more "Russell"-edited (second place). And actually, "Brandon is, well, Brandon." So it could very well be Sophie in the Natalie role.

Ozzy has had the most hero-like winning quotes. They seemed attributed to Cochran, or transferrable to Cochran, but in hindsight maybe they're the cut-to-commercial quotes for the reunion.

I think, at this point, logically, Ozzy can easily defeat two of the Edna/Rick/Brandon trio at RI (assuming no blindsides, and assuming they're low-totems due to their storylines or lack thereof), and then come back at F5. He'd have to win one endurance challenge (against at least 3 tough challengers) and one "other" challenge (presumably something challenging, requiring stamina and brains).

I guess I'm moving away from my "Albert wins" idea to "Ozzy wins," because of the potential reunion cut-scenes.

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38. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
I'm still leaning towards a Sophie win, though Coach is a close second and Ozzy is third. We all know Cochran can't beat Ozzy (for obvious reasons), Edna has next-to-no chance against Ozzy either, and Rick will lose to Ozzy if he goes to Redemption Island. Brandon has a chance if he goes, but even if he beats Ozzy and returns to the game, he's one of those "yeah, right" people, much like Phillip from last season.

Albert keeps trying to make big moves but keeps failing and now his flaws are being shown. That's proof that he doesn't win. As for Ozzy, he has only one chance -- since he can easily defeat Edna and Rick and has a fair shot against Brandon, I think he'll return at Final 5, but then he has to win the last two Immunity Challenges. And I think that's just too tall an order even for Ozzy. Why? Because Sophie could beat him in an endurance or balance competitions. Besides, his edit was too negative in the recrap episode for me to believe he'll win.

That leaves us with Coach and Sophie. Coach is the biggest strategist but the best strategist doesn't always win -- just ask Troll or Sash. I think Sophie's getting the "Natalie" edit, and that means she'll win.


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39. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
Nice to read your thoughts glenny.

In response, I will say that there has been Coach supporters all season but I had doubts because of some scenes that made him look petty or hypocritical. Yet, he's the only player left outside of RI with a somewhat positive story.

Sophie's support isn't based on her story because she has always been the narrator, not the actor. Her confessionals could be seen as portraying a clinical player but, as you said, many clips could have supported that story if that was the intent of her edit. Instead of clinical, I see her as cold and heartless.

If Sophie were to win, she would be the winner that would have done the absolute least to deserve the title:
- She was in no way responsible for building the alliance; she just happened to go to bed late on the first night.
- She did nothing to help Upolu win a single challenge.
- We very rarely see her working in camp (Edna has been working much, much more)
- She did nothing to flip the game at the merge.
- No one talks about her. We almost never heard any positive comments about her. Jim said Sophie wasn't drinking Coach's Kool-Aid but Jim has always been wrong and her voting decisions prove that he was that time also.
- She went through a boring pagongoing; smooth sailing to F6.
- We know she is inside the core 3 so we don't even have doubts about her failing to make the F3.

I cannot believe the editors would show us a winner having such an easy time. No danger, no doubt... That has never spelled winner. It is so easy to create doubt that I cannot believe we wouldn't have been served something.

The only way a win by Sophie would feel satisfying is if she were to single-handedly beat Ozzy at F4. Maybe after an epic 12 hour endurance challenge, he falls off leaving her alone standing in victory. I'd still feel that we had been cheated from a good story (Why treat our winner like Brett v2.0?) but that is what she needs.

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40. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
Agree, michel, and thanks for spelling that out so well.

Sophie had enough attention Ep 1 that I could see her winning if she picked up a strong edit post-merge, but it just hasn't happened. She seems to have a solid F3 ticket, but that's about it.

Even in Ep 1, her comments that I recall were about Coach and a bit snobbish: she critiqued his use of the formal Russian greeting -- well, jeez, you're a Russian major, the average person in the US doesn't know ANY Russian, and you should give Coach a little credit, was my response to that.

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41. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
Thank you OFG.

Yes, she said Coach likes showing off.

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42. "RE: Episode 11 - Editing Thoughts:"
yes, and that is true enough, but as you said, she was narrator, commenting about a key character -- instead of being the key character.
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43. "Episode 12 family visit thoughts"
After Albert got picked first for the love, he got zero attention, like his visit with his Mom never happened. Way to say Albert doesn't matter. Weirdest family visit ever!

Its main function other than Sprint-o-mercial was to let us know that Coach is not interested in taking Brandon to F3. No Hantz interest from Coach. Ozzy F3 pact. Coach doesn't mention who he has in mind for the third.

Meanwhile, Sophie is thinking hard about who will not get votes, but doesn't get shown coming out and saying that she wants Brandon. Just short ... she notices that he hurts people and rubs them wrong, but we don't hear her connect the dots.

Obviously she had the thought, but she doesn't say it.
She is probably the one who wouldn't save Edna, but we don't see it.
I am not feeling Sophie or Albert love.
Coach and Ozzy running the show. We know a lot about their games, and almost nothing about anyone else's, with a minimal look at Sophie.

Natalie White's game was much clearer than Russell's. Foa Foa needed to overcome its merge odds, then she would ride with Russell and let him lose and she would scoop it up by being nice. It was a simple strategy and it worked.

With Sophie, we know she is always thinking, so if she wins, we ought to be hearing what she is thinking ...

Players who got no confessional about family after seeing them (even briefly): everybody except for Brandon. He was the only one who got the change in mood speech that we usually here ... and Brandon is not winning. Just weird.

PS. I wrote the MESS GUT for this last episode if you want to see it. It is a Lewis Carroll adaptation. No spoilers (MESS isn't about spoilers), but I decided to feature Coach and Sophie as the most likely Upolu to get to the end. This is the photochop I did for the Upolu eating their own:

(obviously there will be a F3, but I was sticking to the poem's outcome).
http://survivorsucks.yuku.com/topic/89301/S23-Ep-12-GUT-The-Time-Has-Come-the-Upolu-Carroll


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12-09-11, 04:56 AM (EST)
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44. "RE: Episode 12 family visit thoughts"
This season is messed up. Never have I on one hand so badly wanted someone to win (Sophie) and, at the same time, so badly wanted them not to win solely because of the edit. If Sophie is our winner I will be furious as it will be one of the weakest winner edits I can think of (considering the amount of material she gave them to work with was substantial. UGH.

I swear, this season is like playing a game of Clue and then, 3/4's through it, realising you've eliminated every single Suspect and having to start from scratch. To recap, here's why I'd previously ruled each remaining player out in a nutshell :-

COACH - All the religious fruitloop cult stuff in the two episodes prior to the merge
SOPHIE - The fact that she has SO many excellent strategy confessional relegated to ew.com secret scenes and on the Insider. If shown, she'd be regarded as a classic clinical player up with the likes of Yul, Todd and Micronesia edition Parvati.
OZZY - Because he's been painted as a douchebag half the season. Also, based on Insider footage, he's actually a lot of peoples desired FTC partner due to his unlikablity and arrogance.
BRANDON - Obviously reasons, is portrayed as a misogynistic fundamentalist fruitloop.
ALBERT - His laziness and his inability to get a plan in motion have been highlighted repeatedly post-merge and he was bordering on invisible pre-merge.
EDNA - Disappears for episodes at a time, even when she is a boot target.
RICK - Who?

So, based on that list, whose reason is least exclusionary?

It seems more and more like we could be looking at Ozzy + Coach + ? = F3, which potentially could explain some of the editing, if whoever the ? is ends up winning. Coach could very well lose A LOT of votes due to his jury management (Cochran, Edna, the remaining Upolo who feel betrayed). But, otherwise, his reason I listed above is the one the most likely might not be prohibitive to a winner as it could be used as back up for how effectively he used religion to manage the tribe and prevent early betrayals. I still think Ozzy, Albert and Edna have zero chance. Rick has one step up from that only if they deliberately were editing it as Samoa pt 2 where we are meant to feel outraged at the jury's decision. Brandon, potentially, is the only person who could surpass his atrocious, atrocious edit by virtue of him being a Hantz and so crazy and morally dubious behavior is expected and therefore acceptable.

If Coach wins, hopefully this will at least stop them bringing back returning players. I guess the whole complex Cochran edit was done just to try and cover the fact the whole post-merge has been a traditional Pagonging?

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12-09-11, 08:33 AM (EST)
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45. "RE: Episode 12 family visit thoughts"
"COACH - All the religious fruitloop cult stuff in the two episodes prior to the merge"

In these days where the Tea Party is everywhere, can we really say that his religious stuff was supposed to be viewed negatively?

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46. "RE: Episode 12 family visit thoughts"
Heh. You know, I'd have to go rewatch it to give you specifics, but I just remember noting at the time on those last two pre-merge episodes (particularly the Jack and Jill challenge aftermath) thinking that it was portrayed as decidedly negative. Not 'fun bonding over spirituality' kind of stuff, but definitely intended to be viewed as negative. *shrugs* He's still top of my winners list now that Cochran is gone, so who knows?
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47. "RE: Episode 12 family visit thoughts"
Unfortunately, I agree with you on this, Michel. I find this stuff repugnant but I'm not even an American, never mind religious so I have no idea how his edit plays out with the general American viewing public. Religion aside, he's been given a complex, mainly positive edit. I see him as the winner.
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12-09-11, 08:52 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: Episode 12 family visit thoughts"
Hollywood Media types tend to be liberal so I don't think we were supposed to view his religious fruit loop stuff positively. However, I have forgotten about that episode so perhaps it was included to add some doubt to Coach's ability to win.
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12-10-11, 02:37 AM (EST)
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49. "RE: Episode 12 family visit thoughts"
Network TV Execs care mostly about ratings, which translate to money. In that world anything that generates emotional interest, positive or negative, is good so long as it doesn't turn off viewers or the plusses outwiegh the minusses.

I don't think the Tea Party movement really has the clout to impact how religious stuff is edited on reality shows, it's apples and oranges. The religious stuff we've seen this season, I think, falls into the category of influencing the direction of the game, or in the case of the HII ploy it was just something that could not not be shown.

That said, I think Brandon is a hypocrite, he doesn't act very Christian but tries to make like he is and thinks he can just apologize and make it work. In his defense I will say he is young and a Hantz and probably doesn't know any better. But it is just all talk. Coach, on the other hand, is hypocritical; he is an eccentric BS artist who knows he is playing a game and drank some of his own kool-ade.

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12-10-11, 09:01 AM (EST)
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52. "RE: Episode 12 family visit thoughts"
n his defense I will say he is young and a Hantz and probably doesn't know any better.

You hit the nail on the head here, dabo. Brandon is just a kid. He's a kid that has anger issues, he's 19 years old, he has a wife, and he has a child. I can't believe they get people like this to be on their show. Clearly, Brandon is in way over his head and has made poor choice after poor choice. He has a lot to cry about. He has a child at 19. He's severely conflicted. He makes horrible choices when he's at his best, so let's see what he'll do when he's at his worst, starving, filthy, and trapped with people different than himself....Shame on CBS for putting ill equipped people out on the island and exposing them to the game, when there are so many more qualified people....

I think they need to draw a line, and I think 19 is too young. Last season Natalie made it all the way to the end, now Brandon makes it. Clearly 18 and 19 is too young, they make the best goats....I'd like to see them find a different kind of goat.



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50. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific - Part III"
LAST EDITED ON 12-10-11 AT 02:52 AM (EST)

I am a super lurker from the start of this thread. I don't read anything but this thread because I despise spoilers (honestly i only read anything posted by veruca or michel to avoid spoilers)

I rewatched the first episode tonight and at the very beginning at minute 2.47 jeff references "only one will remain to win the million dollars" and sophie is on screen. We all can agree that normally the opening scene is usually very important. I'm not saying this is conclusive evidence of anything but its something I noticed.

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51. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific - Part III"
Welcome aboard, matt! Always glad to see someone come out of lurker mode. Super-lurker mode even!

Just to get it out of the way, Sophie is currently the last woman standing in Te Tuna, and the only woman on day 1 to join the alliance that survived to F5. These facts alone are enough to warrant that attention that early in ep. 1.

Granted, Edna is on RI with a chance to still win, but per the game Sophie is the only female to not have been voted to RI.

With her partnership with Albert, over whom she seems to have much influnce, she does also seem to have a good chance of making Final.

Given the way things have been edited, she seems the only prospect for a win other than returning players Coach and Ozzy, a calm and rational player who who decided early on on a plan and stuck with that plan as long as it was working for her.

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53. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific - Part III"
Welcome, Matt! Great observation and one that could hold some weight as we wind down. I agree with dabo regarding Sophie's chances of making the final at this point. With all of the males left, it seems that Sophie just may be able to coast into the finals. Looking at the vidcaps for this week, the males are all starting to get their dander up. They are fighting to control the game, while Sophie, the voice of reason is staying out of it. We see her trying to calm or at least rationalize with Albert. Chances are she'll be able to keep him in line. If she can, Albert will most likely survive. If he goes rogue on her, he'll be toast.

Yes. Sophie is in great shape at this point. In fact with all of the fighting that we see between Rick/Albert and Brandon right smack in the middle of it, I'd say that Sophie and Coach are sitting in the best spot to make the finals.




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54. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific - Part III"
Coach and Sophie are going to make the finals -- that's obvious enough. The question is -- who's going to join them? Rick won't make it that far. Brandon could join them but only as a goat and only if he is able to survive long enough to make the Final 4.

Albert and Ozzy have the best chances -- Albert because of his ties with Sophie and Ozzy because -- well, he's the challenge god. But Ozzy's only chance to win is if he returns to the game at Final 5 and wins the final Immunity Challenges. I'm very confident he'll return at Final 5 and that he'll win the penultimate Immunity Challenge, but I'm not so sure he'll win the last one. So I suspect Albert will be joining Coach and Sophie in the finals.


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55. "Episode 12 - Editing Thoughts:"
Previously on Survivor…At the Upolu tribe, a random conversation (Coach said “There were 5 of us sitting by the canoe”) on the first night turned into a Final 5 pact.
<Albert was heard saying that he had the best vibe off the people sitting there)

Later, Coach added Edna to the group as a 6th
<Coach: “It is my job to protect her.”>

After the merge, when the alliance of 6 was in danger, Coach persuaded Cochran to flip and join his alliance as their 7th.
<Coach: “I’ve got Cochran on our side to play the rest of this game. I have convinced him that he will be valued and loved over here.”>

But, on the day when he was on the block, Cochran used all that he learned in Harvard Law to make a final summation.
<Sophie: “He said we feel indebted to him. I don’t feel indebted. Screw you.”>

At Tribal Council, once again Brandon put his foot in his mouth.
<Brandon: “Tonight, my vote is for Cochran and then, the next night, I am voting out Edna.”>
He infuriated his allies by publically revealing their plans.
Now Cochran heads to Redemption Island and Edna has to figure a way to stay in the game.

In a season with very little strategy, all the moves have been credited to Coach once more in this recap. If the game is still about Outwitting, then Coach should win, If the game is about not making moves, then these could all turn against him.

“The moves you make early will dictate your success”


RI – Night 30

When Cochran told him he had been fooled, Ozzy had a reply that made me laugh: “It happens to the best of us.”
(He should know!)

Cochran: “The move…may not have been the best move. I absolutely feel that Upolu used me. The fact that they didn’t show any gratitude except for lip service is insulting to me.”

Ozzy told Cochran he could get his revenge on Upolu by voting for him at the end.
He asked: “If you had a choice between me and Coach?”
Cochran didn’t answer. Instead he started looking around at the shelter’s roof.
Cochran told us that it was insulting that Ozzy already considered that he was going to win the duel.
The scene ended with Ozzy telling us that Cochran didn’t stand a chance.

Cochran’s jury question to Coach was all spelled out right here. It will come down to Coach needing to convince Cochran once more that he had been sincere at the merge but that his hands were tied. Sophie’s “Screw you” tells us he wouldn’t want to vote for her. Will Cochran be able to find the truth, the whole truth?
Ozzy’s final comment could simply be a joke for this episode or it could foreshadow that he becomes over-confident and loses to someone he should have beaten. Cochran came close.

Camp – Day 31

This time, we saw a rotting crab being eaten by bugs and then the bugs landed on Rick.

Brandon called out for Albert to join them in a morning prayer.
Edna walked away, saying she wasn’t really part of the tribe.
That upset Coach.

Edna: “Brandon…made it clear to me yesterday at Tribal that I’m not part of the tribe…I feel, like Cochran has, I feel duped. Coach…he is the one that is preaching it day in and day out that this is reality, this is real life for these people. To treat me like a second class citizen, is that real life?”

She then went to sit with Coach in the shelter.
He told her: “Everybody gets deceived.”
When she said she felt like a 2nd class citizen, he said that it wasn’t true.
Then tree mail arrived.
Before reading it, Edna told Coach she was angry that a 19 year old drop-out was going to decide her destiny.

Now we know what question Coach will have to answer when Edna steps up.

Coach: “Right in the middle of Edna’s meltdown, Brandon comes running into camp...so here’s this phone.”

I don’t think Coach can count on her vote if he dismisses her question at FTC the way he did here!

As we saw the family videos, we only heard Edna and Brandon’s comments.
This could have been a moment to humanize Sophie a bit but, instead, all we heard was her father saying she had made it this far like she had said she would.
Even the father only talks about the situation in the game!

The Duel

If the kooky music that we heard as Cochran missed his early throws had been present when he delivered his pre-merge confessionals, we would have seen his end coming back then!
We heard Albert coaching Cochran and we heard Upolu cheering him on.
Jeff had a fun comment when he saw Cochran just shooting his ball through the maze: “Coachran has a lot of success. It’s a crazy strategy, but it’s working.”

The duel was very close, Cochran’s ball lipping out just before Ozzy finished his maze.

Jeff said: “Because you risked, because you weren’t the most likely guy to be on this show and you found your way out here and you were ridiculed and people picked on you, you didn’t back down but in fact you made one of the biggest moves still in this game, you better be a new guy because I think a part of you died out here and a new part was reborn.”

With his words, Jeff brought Cochran’s journey to destination. This neatly manucured edit was simply a Journeyman’s edit that didn’t even make the final episode. Journey’s are usually successful but this one needed Jeff’s positive remarks to reach its goal.

As for the remaining players, we can say that with Upolu’s cheers during the duel, we have the sense that they worry about Ozzy returning to the game but, from what we are shown, it isn’t mentioned out loud in camp which is something that makes me think Ozzy won’t return, that he won’t be a factor down the stretch.

Proceeding to the twist, Ozzy gave family visits to Albert, Coach and Brandon. He then brought all 6 to his residence.

A really dumb twist if you ask me. Ozzy already has a chance to bond with the jury has they each come to RI so why give him another opportunity? These decisions should be left to the players, to give them the chance to make enemies, to make something happen out there. And, by the way, who thinks Ozzy was told to choose Hantz? If production didn’t twist his hand then I believe Jeff would have asked him to pick one more until the two Hantz were reunited. It simply HAD to be!

Story-wise, Ozzy didn’t consider Sophie for the reward. It must mean that he doesn’t see her as someone significant.
Interesting that Jeff used the visit from Coach’s brother to tell us that Coach is real.

RI

Coach: “It’s a one in 10 million opportunity to get to the loved one’s visit…It’s an incredible pick-me-up at this time of the game. I think Ozzy picked me in the hopes that I would be in his corner but I have one better for you Ozzy: I am in your house, I want to talk to you.”

He then offered him, as a Christian man, a Final 3 deal.

Coach: “That is an irrevocable promise. I want to take Ozzy to the end: Two noble warriors fighting it out to see who the Sole Survivor is.”

Is Coach making too many promises? Now we know what Ozzy will ask him at the end if he is on the jury and not the Final 3. But will he be on the jury? This really opens the door to see Ozzy make it to the end. Unfortunately, Ozzy didn’t comment on it. So, we have to think that this scene was really part of Coach’s story only, not Ozzy’s.

Brandon told his father that he was ready to spit on the million dollars.
Russell’s brother had other ideas: “You are here to do a job.”
Sean then went to talk to Coach, to make sure Coach will take Brandon to the F3.

Coach: “They are all cut out of the same cloth. Brandon’s dad comes out here and basically tries to bully me into making sure his son goes all the way to the end and wins a million dollars. It’s all about manipulation and control, and the Hantz family are the kingpins. I’m not going to have anybody browbeat me and handcuff me into a final 3 alliance with Brandon. The kid’s a loose canon and, tic-tic-tic-tic: Brandon is a ticking time bomb but, guess what? That tick-tock isn’t your timer, that is your clock and your time is about to be expired on this island.”

Now we know how Brandon is going to question Coach. I flashed back to the scene where Coach worried about being duped again by a Hantz and wondered if we had pictured the wrong Hantz being Coach’s biggest problem!

As the scene ended, a question came up: Has anyone ever been ignored during a family visit as much as Albert was? Also, I wanted to hear Coach’s brother to see if he would call him Ben or Coach but, unfortunately that didn’t happen either. This was the worse family visit edit in the series history. I blame this other Hatnz! It’s always the Hantzes.

The Challenge

Jeff asked Coach if this challenge was a metaphor for the game: “The moves you make early will dictate your success later?”

Coach liked that metaphor and so he should because it has been his moves earlier in the game that have been stressed in every recap. He also won this challenge so if it is a metaphor for the whole game then we have been told who wins.

After noting that Edna was being squeezed out, which she wasn’t yet, Jeff noted that Coach was making a “dragon slayer” type of gesture.
Albert was eliminated first followed by Brandon who just had to talk about his strategy: Make sure someone in particular didn’t win.
Edna knew he was talking about her and she said that it was simply because she wasn’t on the beach on day 1.
Coach won the challenge.

Brandon: “Brandon opens his mouth and sticks his foot into it. I have no problem with that. If she wants me to be the bad guy today, I’ll be the bad guy.”

Camp – Day 32

Sophie: “Every day, people in this tribe surprise me with the things that they do. Every day, I am re-calculating who I think the jury is going to hate and who the jury is going to love. Brandon opened his mouth and he was really rude to Edna. There’s no reason to tell her that we are trying to get you out. That’s just a bullying thing to do.”

Rick: “Why did you have to do that, Brandon? I like Edna so it didn’t need to happen. She was clearly not going to win the game so why kick her in the guts? Like calling over a little dog and then kicking it. That’s not right.”

Brandon apologized but Edna told him that it didn’t change what happened.

Edna: “Brandon did verbalize an apology but it’s insincere.”

Sophie: “Brandon thinks that an apology absolves all sins and maybe that works in church but, on Survivor, people are not as forgiving as Jesus-Christ is and Edna isn’t as forgiving and the rest of the tribe, it didn’t go unnoticed with us.”

Sophie once more just narrated events around her. Notice that her first confessional started off well, preparing us to hear her thoughts on the end game but she then went off track. Brandon is obviously someone that the jury would hate but what is she planning to do about it? Is she planning a move to take him with her? It seems implied but it wasn’t verbalized. At this stage, winners always verbalize their strategy. And notice that Rick upstaged her with a confessional of his own on top of hers and one that was much more colorful.

Edna approached Coach, Sophie and Albert, trying to rally the vote against Brandon. While she made a vibrant plea in favor of honor and integrity, Sophie looked less than concerned, playing with her toes instead of paying attention.



Coach: “Edna, provocatively, put something on the table: “Put out Brandon tonight, keep me and then the four of us will take ownership of this game.” Systematically, she laid it all out for us. If there’s any argument for us sending somebody else home tonight, she served Brandon, she served him up slow-pitch softball style. A big, fat, weak pitch that we could knock out of the park. On a day where we thought Edna was definitely going to go home, that’s not the case anymore.”

Edna then talked to Coach alone, asking that he gave it to her straight.
Coach told her: “You take an independent jury and you put Edna on the stand and you put Brandon on the stand; who will be convicted guilty? Brandon. Who is more deserving of staying? Edna. Absolutely. But, they don’t want to send Brandon to redemption and have him win and come back.”

She asked him for his idol and, when he refused, she asked what he was planning to do with it.
Coach answered: “I don’t think I’ll use it. If I use the idol right now, everybody else in the game doesn’t trust me. If I play the idol I am for sure the next person to go. If I give you the idol, they will vote my ass off…You should tell Albert and Sophie: I talked to Coach and everything is cool. See at tribal, see how they vote.”

This scene squarely puts the blame on Sophie and Albert for eliminating Edna, the nice one. She becomes their victim because Coach just offered his vote to Edna if she can get theirs.

Edna then went to Albert and Sophie. Once more, Sophie showed no interest in Edna’s ideas.


Albert, at least, told her he was thinking about it.
Albert: “Edna can feel the heat bearing down on her but Edna made some very good points. She said straight up: “I am not a threat to win the game, I am not going to be very competitive in challenges. Just save my neck now and I can guarantee you a place in the Final 4. On day 32 on Survivor, anytime you can have a guaranteed place that deep in the game, that is something pretty appealing. There’s a chance that Brandon will have a big surprise tonight.”

This scene now puts the blame mostly on Sophie since Albert considered the plan. If it was rejected, the viewer is to assume that it was because Sophie didn’t budge. Just like those images showed.

Tribal Council

Edna told Jeff that she tried to target Brandon because he didn’t follow their mantra.
When she asked Coach to spell out that mantra, Jim reacted less than positively. Cochran looked disappointed while Keith was dismayed.
Edna brought back Brandon’s lie int eh first TC.
Brandon didn’t want to say anything negative about Edna except that she had been inaccurate about a lot of things.
Jeff interrupted, saying he remembered that first TC and his lie.
Once more Brandon apologized, adding though that he doesn’t like that Edna was taking shots at his character.
Brandon said he would be hurt if he was voted out.

Asked about the difficulties of this stage of the game, Sophie said: “As everybody said, we are a family, we have all this unity, we have all this loyalty, but as Savaii is reminding us, it’s going to end soon and I think today is the day that it’s ending.”
As she said this, Edna turned to the jury and mouthed “Blah, Blah, Blah” then smiled.
The jury (in their best Sophie imitation!) didn’t react to Sophie’s words.
Albert said: “A lot of people contributed to us getting here <Cochran raised his eyebrows at that> but, when you look at that core, it always gets thinner and thinner as you get deep in this game. We are making a decision on how the game has played out and the promises that were made early on.”

They then went to vote with Coach, much like Rob last year, was shown voting last.

As she got up to get her torch, Edna gave Coach a hug that seemed to puzzle Dawn.

Jeff, finally in touch with the viewers concluded: “From the beginning, you said it would be the five of you. Now what?”
Sophie and Coach were shown smiling while Brandon looked worried.

Edna’s final words were directed at Coach, saying she was disappointed that he wrote her name down.

The Story

Will Coach get the jury votes? That is the only story since Keith’s elimination. This episode focused on the specific questions that most of the jurors will ask at FTC:

- Cochran will aks Coach if he was only giving lip service.
- Edna will ask him about being treated like a 2nd class citizen and why he voted against her.
- Ozzy will ask about that F3 deal made on RI.
- Brandon will ask about the meaning of a Christian man’s word.
- Jim will aks about honor, loyalty and integrity.

The Characters

Ozzy: The image of the rotting crab, like the dead fish seen on Upolu’s beach pre-merge, has been an editing tool used in previous season to tell us that a tribe was doomed. It was used as misdirection this time even if it is too subtle for the average viewers. Misdirectio that is, unless Ozzy wins. Even if his “He doesn’t stand a chance” could be seen as arrogance, his portrayal since his turnaround, outside of the recap, has been solid. I don’t think that he makes it to the end though because they showed us Coach’s F3 offer. Ozzy would certainly get the Savaii except Coachran’s and that would be enough so there is little doubt in the viewers’ mind. Why remove doubts that he would be in danger when he returns? I see Ozzy’s edit more as a way to keep viewers interested in the season than anything else.
Albert: Last week, we saw Prince Albert, this week we saw a character that was completely ignored during his family visit so Albert cannot be our winner.
Neither can Edna, Brandon and Rick.

Sophie: She is the only one that could receive the votes from a disgruntled jury. Her presence has been a constant in every episode and that seems enough for her supporters but, with all of it being narration, it leaves us with a hollow story.
Why would the jury vote for her? We do not know because she hasn’t been shown interacting with them. That means they would be voting against Coach.

That is certainly possible but I will hang on to the following observation. When she talked about her jury assesment, she forgot one thing: The jury does consider who they like, who they hate but they also need to see someone playing the game. Consider Stephen’s fate in Tocantins where everyone liked him well enough but never realized he was even playing the game, thinking it was all JT’s strategy. There is a possibility that Sophie is hiding herself too much.

It could very well be grasping at straws but consider that Ozzy asked Cochran who he would vote for between himself and Coach. It was as if, in his mind, no one else mattered. And before anyone objects that is only Ozzy’s vote, consider that he has already talked to everyone on the jury.

Coach: For all his troublesome scenes (the one where he forced his tribe to their knees after a challenge win isn’t even the worst in my eyes. The one where he says “everyone calls me Coach” was.) Coach is the only player with a positive story left. He has the jury connections. They will make him suffer, no doubt, but we have seen Coach able to field the tough questions this season. His “everyone gets deceived” comment to Edna is an example. Will it be enough? Coach has been the only one making the moves this season so it would be the only ending that wouldn’t lead to the conclusion that Survivor, as a game, is dead.


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rose1974 11 desperate attention whore postings
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12-11-11, 02:53 AM (EST)
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56. "RE: Episode 12 - Editing Thoughts:"
LAST EDITED ON 12-11-11 AT 02:56 AM (EST)

Of note... I think we saw a very focused Ozzy during the duel even after dropping his ball two times. After he won I think we saw a humble Ozzy as he gave props to Cochran and then was seen agreeing with Jeff's description of his journey This image is very different than the narcisstic picture painted of him during the recap (Bob Marley/cocky). Is this his redemption? Would it be ironic if Coach (who I believe displays narcisstic qualities) was the one would couldn't see the things going on around him b/c he was so caught up in himself.

Also of note.. Coach's irrevocable and Christian man commentary vs: Brandon's dad telling him, (paraphrasing here) sure you're a Christian.. but you've got to play the game to win. Both of these men will have trouble playing the game they need to play to win b/c they have taken such high moral ground so publicly. Maybe each will ask for forgiveness from those they have wronged or lied to at some point (redemption).


Also... I saw the scene between Edna and Coach actually was important for another reason... it made Coach look weak in my mind. He talked big about she was more worthy.. but when asked if he would save her... her couldn't do it. Not a loyal warrior??

Lots of irony/hypocrisy in this episode... bullying Edna, disloyalty, etc. too.

Loved the jurors faces during tribal as I think it was very telling as to where their minds are. They do not like this tribe.

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12-11-11, 01:05 PM (EST)
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57. "RE: Episode 12 - Editing Thoughts:"
Thank you for your input Rose,

As you know, I wasn't too fond of Coach's edit early on but there is one thing I know: He isn't shown as Coach v1.0 or v2.0.
You write: "he was so caught up in himself"

I'd say that applies more to the original Coach. In this season, we heard him being much more introspective, telling Edna that he failed because he was too trusting, telling us that he had been easily duped in the past.

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12-12-11, 02:45 PM (EST)
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58. "RE: Episode 12 - Editing Thoughts:"
hey michel, nice job on your thoughts. This is a confusing last couple of episodes.

I went back to the whole redemption theme while thinking of the players. Sophie and Albert don't feel like the redemption theme played out for them, Rick, should have been gone long ago and it was the luck of where he dropped his butt that got him this far.

Brandon, same as Rick but he at least fit the redemption theme a bit although IMO it was forced and edited to look redeeming. He should have stayed home, I would have rather seen his dad play this season, he would have been entertaining.

Coach and Ozzy. Coach still comes across as smug but instead of being in his own world entirely he came across as at least joining in the game.

Ozzy seemed to go from beach bum and bully to more maturing accepting and nurturing. He could have really blasted Cochran at RI but he was almost fatherly.

It's a toss up since I feel the editing has been heavy handed but I'll go with Ozzy just because I'd feel better about Ozzy winning then any of the others. Yup, poor reason but at this point that's all I got.


A Tribe masterpiece


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12-13-11, 10:32 AM (EST)
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59. "RE: Episode 12 - Editing Thoughts:"
It was an interesting episode. I love Coach, but I think he was portrayed in a bad light... again. Despite his "playing the game" well, he's still a villain. And we can probably count on one hand (two fingers?) the number of pure-villains who have won Survivor.

Ozzy was shown getting the F3 guarantee from Coach, which would be a kiss of death in another season... with this one, it could go either way. I liked Michel's theory that this would set up Ozzy's question for Coach, but it could also set up another "explanation" for why Coach failed to win. Instead of the "you lied to Brandon and Edna and Cochran, you physically forced people to pray, you made Mikayla vomit," the easier "reason" for failing would be "You brought Ozzy."

Probable scene from the reunion:

"Jury, who would you vote for if Ozzy wasn't in the F3, show of hands? 1, 2... 9. Coach, you just cost yourself a million dollars!"
"That's not how I play, though, Jeff. I wanted to take the biggest warriors to the end, and that's what I did."
"Then why did you bring Sophie?"
"She was shown as a warrior, she won some challenges..."
"...and nobody liked her."
"That too. *wink, smirk*"
"All right, when we come back, blah blah blah..."

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12-15-11, 05:16 PM (EST)
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60. "RE: Episode 12 - Editing Thoughts:"
I feel that the editors really like to show something and make it not happen. I know I did not say that right and I cannot come up with a better way of saying it so let me try and explain.

All season long Coach and Brandon have been praying to God for guidance and to help win. I think they are showing this in full force (as a side note I think God has better things to do then help with a game show). I think they are going to show this failed as Sophie wins.

Jusy my 2 cents (and for those who bet you can probable be sure Sophie doesn't win ;>))

Boot Ed

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12-17-11, 02:52 PM (EST)
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61. "Penultimate Episode - Editing Thoughts"
Previously, on Survivor, Albert and Brandon were part of an alliance of five plus one, Edna being the “plus one”.
But during that time, Albert consistently attempted to change the pecking order…including trying to oust Rick.
Albert’s antics were starting to annoy his allies.
Sophie, in confessional, was heard saying Albert hasn’t had a good plan yet.

Brandon was also infuriating the tribe.
Then, when the loved ones arrived, Brandon’s father did it too.

With her head on the chopping block, Edna pulled all the stops to change the vote to Brandon…and Albert considered it.
But, at Tribal Council Albert and the rest of the original 5 hung together.
When Jeff said that it was down to the five of them, only Sopie was shown smiling this time.

If you listen to this recap, you realize that Jeff compared playing the game to mere antics. Changing the pecking order should be the essence of the game’s strategy but Albert is presented as being foolish for attempting it.

Night 32

Coach: “Final 5 is a wonderful feeling. Walking back to camp, it felt like a cloud lifted off of us…We did what we said we were going to do. We know we can go at it with honor, loyalty and integrity…We knew that this day would come…. We know that there is no more loyalty, we know that it’ll be every cat for himself. So…the alliances within the alliance are going to be revealed. The real game begins tonight.”

Albert: “I have a pretty good idea what I want to do within this 5. I’m in a good position to pull off what I think will be one of the biggest blindsides of the game thus far. If only she knew she is next. She’s got no idea it’s coming.”

Once more Albert’s plan will fail and we will see him looking very foolish in the process so this confirms that making moves, stepping up if you remember how it was phrased at the beginning of the season, is supposed to be seen as a bad thing.

Albert: “Since early on in the game, I have been planning on going to the end with Coach and Sophie but the more I look at it, Sophie is getting increasingly dangerous. She’s a very well-spoken girl, very intelligent, she’s starting to build a little bit of a resumé, she’s got two immunity wins under her belt. I frankly don’t know if I want to sit next to her at the end. My best strategy is to adapt to the players I am playing with. Who am I playing with? I got Coach, I got Brandon and I got Rick.”Alone with Rick, Albert said he saw the two of them going to the end together. Albert’s confessional continued: “If I was voting people off based on how much I like them, Rick would be the first I get rid of but the thing about Rick is: I think he is the least dangerous person left in the game. He hasn’t done anything strategically at all, he hasn’t done anything at challenges he has no prayer at all. So, the more I think about it, I’d go to final 3 with Coach and Rick because Coach has been the cult leader, Rick has been the follower. I am a little bit like the rogue in the middle and I feel like I have been the most aggressive player, trying to garner jury votes and position myself to win one million dollars and go home the Sole Survivor..”

Finally, someone talks about Sophie. It wouldn’t have been hard to slip that confessional in earlier. It’s true that Albert has been more aggressive than the others. In most seasons, that would be a great sign. In this one however, we are about to see once more that stepping up only knocks you down. Albert is about to be shown as a really “Dumb Player” even if his confessional sounded perfectly thought out. The kind of confessional that’s usually reserved to the winner is now part of the big joke about to be played on Albert. I really don’t get this season’s editing choices.

As for Coach, it seems that Albert doesn’t give him much of a chance to win if he is ready to take him along with Rick.

The Duel

Despite all the cheering and the help received from the bleachers, Edna lost the duel.

Jeff pointed out that Ozzy was really alone out there but he’s only one win away from returning to the game. Notice that this time, we didn’t go back to Redemtion Island with him. In fact, the previews gave us no indication that he could be beaten. His story should be reaching its climax but, instead, it seems to be losing steam. Was this is high point?

Albert: “In the game of Survivor, I do not care a single thing about honor and integrity. I really don’t. Brandon believes that, no matter what happens, I am never going to write his name down and I have been playing that role strategically because I have to keep Brandon to maintain a numbers lock in this game.”

Albert told Brandon that Ozzy was the only person that could screw their plan. He added that they needed to take Sophie out next.
Brandon replied, quite ironically” “The only thing that could spoil it right now is us.”

Brandon: “I made an agreement with Albert…As long as Coach, Albert and I stay the course and vote out Sophie, we will be in total control then.”

Talking to Coach, Sophie pointed out the problem with the RI twist: “Every single person that goes to Redemption Island, he gets the last say with every single jury member…He comforts them after they’ve been voted out…” She concluded that they had to send Brandon to Redemption.

Sophie: “I think Coach and I are really on the same page. We both recognize that Brandon is a psychopath but we have seen the changes in Brandon since the merge. Superficially, he is the most loyal, the most trustworthy, the most godly man out here and that’s not someone I want to go to the Final 3 with.”

Really??? The editors have shown us that he is a great person to face in the end.

Rick joined the two and agreed on eliminating Brandon next.

Next, Albert talked to Coach, telling him that Sophie was the number 1 threat.
Coach disagreed.

Coach: “As the group starts to scramble, it’s the first time we really had to turn on each other, it’s a very unsettling feeling. Albert came to me and he was adamant about voting Sophie off. He just blows whichever way the wind goes. It was disheartening because I have been in a very tight alliance with Sophie since I found the idol. I tried to reason with Albert but he wouldn’t listen. He’s got a thing about Sophie and I think it’s because Sophie is smarter than Albert. That’s why Albert is intimidated by Sophie. He is hearing her at Tribal, she is speaking up so she isn’t the quiet little mouse that he thought that she was and now, all of a sudden, he’s like “I got to get rid of Sophie.”

Coach, that sounds like Albert was giving you a good reason to get rid of Sophie. We’ve now had two players telling us that Sophie is smart in the matter of 10 minutes after nothing for 12 episodes.

Saying he was thinking clearly, Coach said he thought Brandon would win. He was about to tell us how he got to that ridiculous conclusion but Brandon appeared and the two had to pretend they were talking about jury reaction in general.
Brandon’s worried reaction reminded Coach of Russell’s paranoia.

Coach: “Brandon really pissed me off…He’s so reminiscent of Russell that I am having flashbacks.”

The scene ended with the two hugging and apologizing but Coach told us he had figured out his next move.

The Challenge

Brandon won immunity and, out of nowhere, chose Rick to share the pizza reward.

Coach: “I believe in Divine intervention: It was not Brandon’s time to go home tonight. He saved his own skin by winning immunity. I’m at peace with that. I’m pissed but I am at peace with that.”

Sophie: “Today, the worst case scenario happened: Brandon won immunity. We wanted to get Brandon out tonight so, the way to go right now is Albert. Coach and I agreed that Albert has been getting on our nerves more and more since the merge. He is sneaky, he thinks he is more strategic than everyone else. Every thing he does is the smartest decision possible. More and more, I am feeling that Albert should be going home tonight.”

Sophie went over to smell the pizzas.

Albert: “When somebody disappears, especially someone like Sophie, I know something is up.”

He told Coach that he knew Sophie was coming after him just as she was telling Brandon and Rick that she was indeed voting against Albert.
Brandon was surprised to hear that Albert had promised to take Rick to the end.

Brandon: “It’s crazy at camp. Number one because you got a bunch of people that don’t know how to tell the truth.”

Brandon confronted Albert and that led to a confrontation between everyone but Coach.

Sophie: “It’s so gratifying seeing everything about Albert being exposed because now, instead of a nice little blindside, he gets out looking more pathetic than he’s looked this whole game. It’s like he’s in a toilet bowl and Brandon and Coach and I and Rick all get a chance to flush him down. He keeps scrambling back up but I think Jeff will give him a final flush tonight.”

Albert: “I think Brandon opened up Pandora’s box for me because I just got thrown with a storm of crap. I got a heck of a lot of damage control to do if I want to have a prayer of escaping the vote tonight. If I can just draw Brandon over with me, I’m right back where I need to be.”

Albert did manage to draw Brandon back. Not only did Brandon forgive Albert and told him he wouldn’t vote against him, he also promised to give him his immunity necklace.

Brandon then let Coach know what he had decided.

Coach: “I want things to be easy and simple and, earlier today, it was kind of black and white because we had one man, Albert, that had just completely lied in camp so it’s justification that he goes. But then, Brandon brings in forgiveness and the immunity necklace and it makes it so hard to determine right from wrong. It makes it so hard to tell who should go, who deserves to stay, which alliance I should be in, which people I can trust.”

When Brandon told Coach that he was voting Sophie because that was what God wanted them to do, Coach replied that it was what God wanted Brandon to do. He had to ask for his own guidance.

Coach: “I bowed down..I prayed and there was a name in my head, over and over and over again...My soul has never grieved like it does in this moment.”

Tribal Council

The jury had barely sat down that Brandon told Jeff he was giving his necklace to Albert.
Jeff, Keith, Jim and Dawn looked stunned. Dawn was even heard asking what was going on.
Brandon explained he wanted to be true to his commitments and give up his place for them.
Coach pointed out that, a couple of hours ago, Brandon was going to eliminate Albert but that his prayers told him not to do so.
Whitney looked like she was having a hard time following that.
Brandon then explained his life in a gang and how his “friends” didn’t stand by their commitments. He added that he considered Coach and Albert his best friends.
Albert explained that their bond was real. That was why he strayed away from Sophie and Rick because of the spiritual bond with Coach and Brandon.
Jeff asked Albert if he would give the necklace back to Brandon.
Albert said he would but that he didn’t believe Brandon needed it.
Sophie said she didn’t know if she could believe Albert.
Rick said things were great until the bomb hit. He added that only three of them were in danger because “one” had the hidden immunity idol.
Sophie said they all knew Coach had the idol.
Brandon, with Coach’s hand on his shoulder, said that tonight could be his night but that he didn’t expect the necklace back.
Albert still didn’t think Brandon was going home.
Jeff said: “So, somehow Coach, you got involved in this.”
Coach answered: “I don’t mind the responsibility because I got down on my knees in the sand and I prayed to God to give me an answer on what I should do and everything I meant to be as it is supposed to be. So, I am at complete peace.”
Brandon wasn’t at peace.

Coach’s vote was the only one that wasn’t shown.
He didn’t play his idol.
The jury seemed surprised when Brandon was voted out.

Coach gave him a hug, saying: “It is God’s will. Go win redemption.”


The Story
…and what’s wrong with it.

It really comes down to Albert’s portrayal: In every other season, Albert could be seen as the winner but, in this one, he is seen as a “Dumb Player”. To show what I mean, consider that he pulled a move that only Cirie was capable of achieving: Getting someone to give up the immunity necklace. Yes, like Erik, Brandon was dumb but, in Micronesia, the equation was balanced by Cirie’s brilliance. We heard the arguments that she imagined to force Erik’s hand and they were sound. Here, Albert’s arguments were drowned by his comments at Tribal Council which made him look unaware of what was really happening, that Coach wasn’t going to keep Brandon and that his attachment to Brandon made him look bad in the eyes of the jurors.

If we put Albert’s interventions in this episode together, they do sound like what we heard from many successful players in the past:
Albert told us: “I have a pretty good idea what I want to do within this 5. I’m in a good position to pull off what I think will be one of the biggest blindsides of the game thus far”
“I frankly don’t know if I want to sit next to her at the end. My best strategy is to adapt to the players I am playing with…”
“If I was voting people off based on how much I like them, Rick would be the first I get rid of but the thing about Rick is: I think he is the least dangerous person left in the game.”
“I feel like I have been the most aggressive player, trying to garner jury votes and position myself to win one million dollars and go home the Sole Survivor...”
“In the game of Survivor, I do not care a single thing about honor and integrity.”
“I have to keep Brandon to maintain a numbers lock in this game.”
“Sophie is the number 1 threat.”
“When somebody disappears, especially someone like Sophie, I know something is up.”
“I got a heck of a lot of damage control to do if I want to have a prayer of escaping the vote tonight.”

Yet, because he was ignored for so many episodes at the start, because we heard that he was lazy and because he was made to look foolish at Tribal Council, we see that Albert cannot win. He is right though: Winning Survivor has never been about Outfishing the others and many winners were never shown working (Yul for example, after the first two episodes in Puka Puka, let the fishing to Ozzy and the chores to the others) but here we are presented with “Princess Albert”.

So, this So Pathetic season leaves us with which possible winner?

The whole unappetizing Upolus could be flushed if Ozzy returns victorious and winds up in front of the jury. However, we had never heard comments about Ozzy being a threat. Coming this late makes it sound more like misdirection than being the conclusion to this story. Also, Sophie spelled out exactly the unfairness of the Redemption twist because, as we had been saying all along, a player gets to talk to the jury. It is an ex-parte discussion that gives him a clear advantage. Would we have heard Sophie talking about Ozzy’s Pleasure Dome if Ozzy was going to win? Probably not because it would only serve to diminish his accomplishment.


So, we are left asking if the editors want us to consider asking for God’s guidance as a good way to play Survivor or not. Either Coach’s deep beliefs will help him prevail or Sophie’s ickey feelings will strike a chord with the jury. But which is it?!

Note that both made what appeared as strategic mistakes when they talked about Brandon.

Sophie said: “that’s not someone I want to go to the Final 3 with.”

Coach told Albert: “The jury is a different animal: Brandon would win.”

If either one had said that Brandon was too much of a goat to keep around then we would have had a hint as to which one was thinking along with the audience, which one’s story we were witnessing but Coach and Sophie were on the same page.

We finally heard others talking about Sophie, making a case for her to the audience. We knew that Sophie was smart but we needed to hear others talking about it for it to become a factor in the story. However, this also came in very late in the season so it could very well be misdirection much like Amanda’s final push at the end of China. Amanda was always made to look smarter than she really was, than how the other players really saw her, but that was only to make us doubt Todd’s chances. Stories should have continuity and span the whole season so I will assume that Sophie’s late push is misdirection.

We can also consider the confessionals that each player had at the end of this episode:

Sophie: “It’s so gratifying seeing everything about Albert being exposed because now, instead of a nice little blindside, he gets out looking more pathetic than he’s looked this whole game. It’s like he’s in a toilet bowl and Brandon and Coach and I and Rick all get a chance to flush him down. He keeps scrambling back up but I think Jeff will give him a final flush tonight.”

Coach: “I want things to be easy and simple and, earlier today, it was kind of black and white because we had one man, Albert, that had just completely lied in camp so it’s justification that he goes. But then, Brandon brings in forgiveness and the immunity necklace and it makes it so hard to determine right from wrong. It makes it so hard to tell who should go, who deserves to stay, which alliance I should be in, which people I can trust. I bowed down..I prayed and there was a name in my head, over and over and over again...My soul has never grieved like it does in this moment.”

Sophie’s dislike for Albert came out of nowhere because, all season long, she had been firmly by his side. She even said that her true colors were the same as Albert’s. She was never close to Rick and Brandon. Yes, Albert was heard targeting her first but it was out of respect and she wasn’t shown being aware of that threat. Her attack on Albert was rather gratuitous. He’s sneaky but this is Survivor, isn’t it?

Therefore, I will stay in Coach’s corner (as unpleasant as that is on so many levels) because he is shown as being more diplomatic, more reasonable. Also, when Brandon confronted Albert and all hell broke loose, Coach wasn’t part of the war of words, showing that he was above the fray. Coach could win the title of Sole Survivor.
Whoop-de-doo…


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12-17-11, 06:44 PM (EST)
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63. "RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing Thoughts"
Just some quick thoughts that jumped out at me r/e Sophie and Coach. Sophie was in danger the whole episode but we never saw her try and save herself. There have been a lot of shots the last few episodes of her just laying down around camp and, when needed, besides her awesome little blow up at Princess Albert, she didn't really get presented as doing anything to save herself, even though I doubt very much this is the case. Also, she came off a bit bitter and mean r/e Albert and appeared to be taking it personally, not strategically, which is concerning. She is still getting presented as the voice of reason for the viewer though.

Coach once again got spared a lot of the negativity of the vote even though, in actuality, he single handedly sent Brandon home, much like Cochran and Edna. The allies that he has betrayed aren't getting portrayed as such, which is a good sign for his ability to get jury votes.

When I went through the numbers in my head, we haven't really seen anything on screen as to why Sophie would get anyone's votes - even though obviously she deserves to. Even Natalie in Samoa had more jury connections outlined at this point. That's AWFUL for Sophie's chances.

Lastly, a pretty good rule of thumb is that whoever is built up as the winner in the penultimate episode almost never does. Look at Amanda in China, Amanda in Micronesia, Russell in Samoa, Parvati in Heroes vs Villains, etc. Sophie's game has been incredibly well thought out and consistent since episode one but they've only suddenly started commenting on it now. That's not a good sign.

So, yeah, I guess Coach is winning. I said a while back I thought Sophie's mysterious edit was a sign of a 2nd place finish and that would explain a lot. Michel's point about how the story of this season is that making moves gets you nowhere is interesting though but, even then, The Insider has been chock full of quite entertaining Sophie confessionals explaining this, so I just can't believe if she won they wouldn't use more them. The editing of this season is just THE WORST.

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12-17-11, 07:47 PM (EST)
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64. "RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing Thoughts"
I think there's another reason for Sophie's edit being so bad that you would think she is in second: the editors just don't like her. She's certainly the cold, clinical type of player much like Brian from Thailand (an unpopular winner). If she's the winner as I think she could be, maybe the editors just don't like her cold, clinical style of playing (especially when you put it next to Coach's style of play) and thus gave her the short end of the stick.

Personally, I don't hate Sophie for being cold and clinical in her play style (it is Survivor, after all), but I can see why other people watching and the editors might not like it.


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12-17-11, 08:07 PM (EST)
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65. "RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing Thoughts"
I agree with Belle that Sophie's lackluster edit doesn't mean she can't get this jury sewn up. We have been shown a jury that will blame Coach. Brian Heidik almost lost to Clay of all people.

Similar dynamic, other tribe gets pagonged and the dominant allies each think they have earned the right to go to the end, so are bitter when they don't. Leader who seemed close to them turns out to not be that caring.

I don't think Sophie has been underutilized because the editors dislike her. They may have disliked Russell, but that didn't stop them from saturating the TV with him.

I think Sophie was not considered good TV. Remember that Probst has always been a huge Coach fan.

Another possibility is that Probst, who seems to have editorial say, may hold some dislike for players (especially UTR women) who beat his picks for best player, like Natalie and perhaps now Sophie.

Probst likes characters who "deliver" according to their casting promise. I don't think Sophie was feisty enough. She finally got into a fight this last episode.

Probst answered the question about whether Rick simply had fewer confessionals. He said, no, they all get the same attention on location, but the real rule guiding who gets confessionals is how well you deliver good soundbytes.

IOW, it's not because you're F4 that you're invisible. It's because you weren't entertaining. That quality may at times contribute to someone getting a F4 placement.

I think it's important to recall that EPM had a very different philosophy about the show than Probst. Probst likes larger than life and he wants eye candy in the shots (but not talking unless "it" is entertaining talk). His idea of a story is never subtle either.

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12-18-11, 02:21 AM (EST)
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66. "RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing Thoughts"
I'd have to agree that the editors (primarily Probst) just don't care for people like Sophie who aren't big characters they can easily exploit on their (primarily Probst's) philosophies on what makes for compelling television. EPMB's original vision of the show, Survivor as a microcosm for America with a cross-section of fairly normal type-A adventurous types drawn from all over the country and from a variety of backgrounds, forced to live with one another and get along, is long gone. Real discussions about life and beliefs and et cetera are long gone.

In addition, since the merge episode they have had so much loaded into each episode that had to be fitted in, there was little time left in each episode for much else. The family visit, for example, concentrated mainly on one loved one (of three), his son and Coach, we barely got to see Ozzy, Albert, his mom, Coach's brother, and saw nothing of the three who returned to camp without their loved ones. It has been a very choppy uneven post-merge season.

The main emphasis from the penultimate episode leading into the finale, at least what I took from it, is that it is Coach's game to lose. That -- should Coach get to Final and lose the jury vote -- is the story angle, he blows it. And Coach is certainly capable of blowing his own chances.

Ozzy all but vanished this last episode but for his necessary appearance at the duel, but Ozzy really has nothing new to say; he's been repeating himself since he went to RI, his game is simply about continuing his winning streak all the way to the end. Albert's game continued to crumble though he managed to avoid being voted out. Rick continues to be a total non-entity. Brandon, curiously, began to sound as if he had some game, though he seems negligible. (The danger of sitting next to a Brandon at Final, however, is very real, if you view it in terms of politics and religion being used to curry favor with voters who allow themselves to be influenced by religion even if it happens to be, in many cases, shallow religious pretension.) Sophie alone has a consistant edit where, if nothing else, she has controlled herself, kept her head in the game rather than be ruled by her emotions. And she was finally presented, via the explanatory perspective of others, as a strong contendor.

The big surprise to me, actually, was that it was Albert who decided to target Sophie. I had thought that their games were drifting apart but thought that was because she would be the one willing to cut him loose. All his plans just dead-end yet he continues to think he can make things happen.

In any event, where are we now, it is Coach's game to lose, Ozzy's game to win, Sophie's game to take if she can.

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12-18-11, 04:21 AM (EST)
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67. "RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing Thoughts"
Excellent summary, dabo. I agree 100%.
No doubt this was remarked on in some comments I haven't read, but when Probst drew attention to Coach at the Pineapple IC, and said it was Coach's to lose -- definitely one of those challenge remarks that relates to more than the immediate situation.

CBS then released a video clip of the IC with the title that it was his to lose.

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12-18-11, 02:23 PM (EST)
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69. "RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing Thoughts"
Nice assesment, Dabo but, regarding this:


"The big surprise to me, actually, was that it was Albert who decided to target Sophie. I had thought that their games were drifting apart but thought that was because she would be the one willing to cut him loose.?

Really?! The editing has been telling us all season long that Sophie does nothing!

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12-18-11, 04:30 PM (EST)
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73. "RE: Penultimate Episode - Editing Thoughts"
Actually, she kind of did cut him loose, wanting to send Albert or Brandon off though mainly concerned about Ozzy getting knocked off his winning streak. Albert moved against her first, though, which more or less guaranteed she would be around afterwards. Coach wants to win, he should get Albert somehow trying to blindside him.
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12-17-11, 06:13 PM (EST)
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62. "Thoughts on likability of likely finalists"
As I mentioned above, I recently did a MESS GUT parody of Carroll's "Walrus and the Carpenter" to look at the Upolu tribe as it came down to eating each other. Featuring Sophie as the Walrus and Coach as the Carpenter.
http://survivorsucks.yuku.com/topic/89301/S23-Ep-12-GUT-The-Time-Has-Come-the-Upolu-Carroll

That poem still speaks to me about this season.

After hearing the poem, Alice reflects on which of the two she prefers, based on their treatment of the poor duped oysters:

`I like the Walrus best,' said Alice: `because you see he was a little sorry for the poor oysters.'

`He ate more than the Carpenter, though,' said Tweedledee. `You see he held his handkerchief in front, so that the Carpenter couldn't count how many he took: contrariwise.'

`That was mean!' Alice said indignantly. `Then I like the Carpenter best -- if he didn't eat so many as the Walrus.'

`But he ate as many as he could get,' said Tweedledum.

This was a puzzler. After a pause, Alice began, `Well! They were both very unpleasant characters -- '

And that's how I feel. There was no good guy here. Sophie was every bit as cold and ruthless about voting people off. She played her self-interest the entire game, if anything, more so than Coach, who is not able to play as clinically, and has to soul search his morals and ethics for the right thing to do, or at least a justification for his doing what is self-serving.

If Coach does lose for over-selling his "Christian" approach, I don't think the editors like Sophie much better, and they have done little to sell her to us other than show us that she wasn't considered important enough, fliexible enough, or bold enough in her play for the oysters to approach directly when they asked for salvation. They always went to Albert or Coach.

Those who were asked for help and didn't make it happen are viewed the most culpable, while the one who stood by and let the plan execute will get credit for empathy -- as the Walrus did.

Where are Tweedledum and Tweedledee to explain what really transpired?


"If given a choice between two equally promising lines of play, always choose the more elegant." ~ my father, as quoted by an old bridge partner

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12-18-11, 11:10 AM (EST)
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68. "Final Thoughts..."
For my final thoughts on the season I wanted to make a post without reading anyone else's at first. For in the editing thread there is no right or wrong, and therefore I am not going to defend any of my thoughts or comments, as they are what they are. They are where the editing led me. The way I see this entire season is that it has always been either Ozzy or Coach.

From the very start it was Ozzy that spoke his quest, I need redemption. He is either going to get it or he's not. Coach didn't start off so well, but by the end of the first episode, he had things going quite smoothly.

The editing really had me favor a winner from the Savaii tribe. We all saw it. For that reason, I still feel like against all odds Ozzy may emerge as the winner. He's quite capable of it. His disappearance in the last episode gives me more validation that he may just make it. It lends doubt as to his chances.

So, at this point, I am still thinking Ozzy could pull it out, get redemption and win this season.

If Ozzy loses one duel or challenge, he's likely toast. We heard Sophie and Coach identify him as the most dangerous player left as all jurors must go through Ozzy's Pleasure Dome...but, if Ozzy gets out, then it is indeed Coach's game. Coach defined the game when he bonded with the Stargazer Five. He proved to them that the game could be won by 5 if they vowed to stay together to the end. He accomplished this. He parted with Cochran, Edna, and Brandon quite well....go to RI and win! He was the only one that hugged Brandon on the way out.

It was Coach that saved the Upolu 5 by bringing Cochran over....one can argue about the means, but when the day is done, it was up to Coach and HE delivered. Not Cochran, it was Coach.

So, for me, it's either Ozzy or Coach. I don't see either Albert or Sophie winning this game. I suppose if I had to pick either Albert or Sophie, I might pick Albert. He, in my opinion was far more open to each Savaii, heard their thoughts and ideas, presented those thought and ideas to the group, only to be shot down time and again. I think he was the most sympathetic to the other players in the game. Then, with Brandon, I thought Albert deserved credit for getting Brandon to give him his IN. He was the number one target that night, and he ended up getting the IN. I thought Albert deserved the credit. Brandon also told us he was his best friend in the game. Frankly, I just don't see either one of them winning....I don't think the editing has invested in them must at all.

The one loop hole for me is if all of the jurors just down right refuse to give it to a returning player. Which, I suppose could happen. But, I don't see it happening. So, whichever way it turns out, that's just what I saw through the season. Ozzy or Coach...it was their season, like it or not....

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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12-18-11, 02:31 PM (EST)
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70. "RE: Final Thoughts..."
Thanks for your thoughts FP.

If you read my post, you will see why I don't think Ozzy will win. Sophie's mention of his "Pleasure Dome" served no purpose except to give Coach an out from his promise when Ozzy returns. If Ozzy wins, what Sophie said diminishes his accomplishment and would thus have been excluded, I think

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12-18-11, 03:38 PM (EST)
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71. "RE: Season Finale"
Wonderful thoughts Flower What one sees is what one sees; editing is subjective. Over time, formats are developed so we can at least see where the investment lies and traits given to short term and long term players.

I see this season has caused a conundrum for a lot of people from all that I read. Makes for good analysis doesn't it?

I have found quite often (and it appears from reading everyone's thought process that sometimes over thinking the edit can steer one in the wrong direction) that it is important to remember every season is different and every character (despite seeing correlations with past characters) is different.

Most importantly, I have maintained from the beginning that the winner does not generate the story, the story generates the winner. Too often getting caught up in the nuances of the character causes more confusion than it should

If you put too emphasis on the end result and grand expectations of a "winner" as opposed to the journey getting there and what it produces, you may be steered in the wrong direction and could also end up being disappointed.

Thank you for a great read this season; perhaps I will be here to join you next season.

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12-18-11, 03:54 PM (EST)
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72. "RE: Season Finale"
>If you put too emphasis on
>the end result and grand
>expectations of a "winner" as
>opposed to the journey getting
>there and what it produces,
>you may be steered in
>the wrong direction and could
>also end up being disappointed.

The hunt for the winner is always fun. It's like reading a detective novel and trying to find the killer before that big revelation. The disappointment is in a season that was void of strategic play. Even Thailand was better in that regards.

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12-20-11, 12:00 PM (EST)
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83. "RE: Season Finale"
Thank you for your response michel.

I have been analyzing editing a long time so I am very aware of the fun involved in the "hunt for the winner" and have enjoyed myself tremendously in searching for the answers myself. My statement is not about being one of those who look for the winner as opposed to essentially fleshing out the end and whether it is considered fun or not fun.

I find each season interesting and insightful en masse based on the progression of each episode and how relationships are tied to each other, character development is formed and identified and the rationale and reasoning of method and motive of the people on the show.

What I have found helpful in my quest to understanding the editing is that this show does not always concentrate in generating the story for the winner but rather the winner is generated from the story. Sometimes those who win this game are not "made" of stock to create an entire season from and therefore, looking at the story progression this show (which, quite often, the progression will tie that person to a much larger character) is generating can be immeasurably helpful in determining the end result.

corvis, OFG and others that mention RI, I've come to the conclusion that after this many seasons, we have no choice but to see catchy wrenches thrown in the mix even starting as far back as the "ghost tribe." It is inevitable. I've learned to just sigh and accept

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12-18-11, 07:13 PM (EST)
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74. "RE: Season Finale"
I hope you do join us, VS! You are missed!
I agree very much with your post. I get very frustrated with posts saying that someone can't win because this or that was shown or wasn't shown. I believe that each season, they show what they want to form the story of the season, not to serve the winner.

It is the season's story that brings in the fans to tune in week after week.
I for one wish this topic could be less about calling the winner and more what it was originally, looking out for short and long term players and how they are being developed.


"If given a choice between two equally promising lines of play, always choose the more elegant."

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12-20-11, 09:57 PM (EST)
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84. "RE: Season Finale"
If we had been looking for long term players, we would have all agreed that Jim, Dawn, Cochran, Sophie and Brandon were the newbies that had the best chances to make it far. We would have also said that Coach and Ozzy had the type of edit that could carry them far but that the editors would have given them interesting edits no matter where they finished. What more would we have accomplished? By looking for the winner, we inevitably looked at the story of each one of those players. Same result.

Or are you going to complain that we missed Rick's status as a long term player? Was he even there?!

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12-18-11, 09:23 PM (EST)
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75. "RE: Final Thoughts..."
Terrific post, FP!

>>> The way I see this entire season is that it has always been either Ozzy or Coach. From the very start it was Ozzy that spoke his quest, I need redemption. He is either going to get it or he's not. Coach didn't start off so well, but by the end of the first episode, he had things going quite smoothly.

It has been presented that way, absolutely.

What you noted about Ep 1 -- I had a whole long post that I was going to write, took all the notes, and then didn't have time. I want to do a shorthand version here.

IF the first episode could be seen as a microcosm of the season, and even the first day of the first episode
&
IF, the key quote is: It's not how you start, it's how you finish

Then Coach wins over Ozzy.

Ep 1 began with the triumph of Ozzy and the rejection of Coach.
The tribe wanted one and not the other. Coach lost the first challenge.
At the first challenge, we saw Ozzy benefit from teamwork, while Coach's tribe was a mess. In the element where they had to dig under the sand, Coach got stuck "in a hole" and Ozzy zoomed through.

Christine made it clear she was out to get Coach off ASAP.
Rick said he didn't believe in Dragons or Dragonslayers.
Cochran Superfan, OTOH, was over the moon to be with Ozzy.

This is how they started. Then they hit the beach.

We were then shown Ozzy making a series of mistakes.

He called the tribe into the water in underwear, which set a division between the body-modest Cochran, Dawn) and the young show-offs and Jim who lusted after them.

He didn't think they needed a shelter, not realizing that his tribe did need one, and that they could bond over it.

He let his eye get caught by Semhar, after he swore he was done with showmances. His interest in Semhar directly led to a tribal division for the very first vote, and set up Jim's later decision to rally the others to take out Elyse.

Ozzy's tribe lost the challenge in the closest contest ever. Arguably if he had stepped up and assigned positions, and not Semhar for shooting, they would have won.

At the end of the first night, Savai'i is shelterless and Dawn is cued for a breakdown.

On Upolu, Coach immediately made a friend, Edna.
He showed the tribe survival tricks.
When he was pontificating and Christine interrupted him, he immediately backed down.
When Brandon started to go off about Delilah, Coach put a kibosh on the idea.
He realized Christine was looking for the HII, and he told the others, which got most of the tribe paranoid about Christine.

At the end of the first day, he had formed the alliance that would dominate the end game. His new allies were shown listening to his promises of success under the stars, while over on Savai'i, the tribe was sleeping on the sand because Ozzy had gone with the Bob Marley carefree attitude.

Coach came off that helicopter and played the game right out of the gate.
Ozzy came into the game thinking about strong tribe, ducking the leader role, hooking up with beautiful girl -- same old same old.
Coach told us he was Coach v.3.0 and there to win, and it wasn't hot air, he really turned a bad start into a good finish.

So the question this left me with is, was Episode 1's (especially Day 1), a story arc fashioned by editing to show us how it all works out?

Or is the story more based on whole episodes, such that Coach started off well (looking at Ep 1 as a whole), but then proceeded to lose his way to the finish?

Editing A: Coach wins.
Editing B: Coach loses.

BUT, if Ozzy doesn't get to the F3, how does Editing B make any sense, if Coach loses to Sophie? She was never portrayed as starting badly or really making any kind of progress or decline in her game. She was steady, clinical, conservative, no major errors.

So what is the point of putting all this emphasis on the arc, on redemption, on passion? None of those elements applied to her.

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12-19-11, 06:16 PM (EST)
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76. "A season in a nutshell"
Considering how poorly the winner was presented it's interesting to note that Sophie's story in the finale hooked up to the season's major themes:

- The only justification the editors gave her for winning was beating Ozzy at Final 4. One can say that she stepped up at just the right time.

- "It's not how you start, it's how you finish" and "you have to put the negative thoughts behind you" were exemplified when Ozzy started by calling her a spoiled brat. That made her cry but she put that behind her and used it as a strong argument at FTC where she finished strong.


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77. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
Yeah. And I think the only reasons why the editors (especially Probst) wouldn't give her much justification is because she wasn't a colorful character and because she could come off as rather hard and cold when she probably was just reserved. On the other hand, Coach and Ozzy were certainly huge characters, so naturally more of their stories would be shown.


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78. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
As I mentioned before, another major theme was that "big moves don't work out" (or at least revealed big moves don't work out) - we saw numerous cases where a big gameplay or strategic idea was presented but in each case it blew up (often spectacularly) and Sophie was presented as either the voice of reason or said "ha ha nice try but...NO". We started with being shown Christine saying that Ozzy and Coachebag were temporary players and included other moments such as Brandon aggressively trying to get Mikayla out (which didnt happen for a few eps and was rebuffed by Coach at first), Cochran's halfassed flip, Albert's many strategic ideas and Coach/Ozzy's plan. Only Sophie was shown making observations or outlining strategic moves that didn't fall flat - one example was while Albert was saying that Sophie needed to go, Sophie said let's get Brandon out and put him up against Ozzy as they were the two most dangerous physical threats in the game.

Sophie easily had the most consistent edit throughout, even if it wasn't exciting for the most part. In a normal season, we would have seen far more of Sophie, but as it turned out, she was in a season with FOUR megaDAWs - there has never been more than two in any previous non-all star/favourite season. Of course they got all of the editing focused on them, and they each had big ideas so that ended up becoming the recurring theme of the season.

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12-19-11, 09:52 PM (EST)
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79. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
LAST EDITED ON 12-19-11 AT 09:55 PM (EST)

"she was in a season with FOUR megaDAWs - there has never been more than two in any previous non-all star/favourite season."

I guess it depends on the unit used to measure megadawness but consider these seasons and their huge characters:

- Outback: Jerri, Colby, Varner, Mike.
- Africa: Lex, Big Tom, Frank, Silas
- Marquesas: Rob, Sean, Kathy, John.
- PI: Rupert, Fairplay, Savage, Lill.
- Guatemala: Judd, Stephenie, BJ, Gary.
- EI: Shane, Terry, Courtney, Cirie.
- CI: Jonathan, Parvati, Ozzy, Nate.
- Nicaragua: Jimmy J, Jimmy T, Marty, Jane, Na'Onka

Those seasons still gave complete stories to their respective winners. You can say that some of those were early boots but I will counter by saying that the winner's story was well established before any of them left.

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12-19-11, 10:42 PM (EST)
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80. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
Well, I have to disagree that Sophie's story fulfilled the how you start and finish theme. No more so than any winner by definition finishes well.

First off, she started out just fine. She was in a dominant alliance by Day One, was never a target at all until F5. She pretty much had a charmed life as a Survivor princess, she and Princess Albert were peas in a pod until the alliance had to break up.

Far from a positive finish, this winner arrived at FTC to be told that NO ONE wanted to vote for her. She only won because the jury was LESS willing to vote for the other two. But the jury majority WOULD have voted for Coach if he had said the right things. They didn't want to vote Sophie.

That was not true of Natalie White for example. Erik spoke vehemently in her support, and they jury never leaned towards rewarding Russell. Nobody advocated for Sophie.

The "how you finish" quote applied to Brandon, the one who said it, to Coach (negatively), and to Ozzy (positively). Ozzy took his early mistakes and turned them into landslide Fan Favorite.

The weird edit of this season wasn't about how Jeff and the editors didn't like the way the jury voted, so much as that no one was happy with the F3. Sort of like the F2 seasons where the F3 person was the star of the season (Marquesas, Amazon, PEI (to a degree). The F3 was introduced to try to keep that from happening (per Probst).

This is the stupidity of the RI twist. It created hope in the jury that they would have a candidate they liked, then they had one day to get over the disappointment, and it wasn't enough.

Of your examples, I won't count the early seasons because Burnett was still hands on, and this is Probst-directed editing now.

>>>
- Guatemala: Judd, Stephenie, BJ, Gary.
- EI: Shane, Terry, Courtney, Cirie.
- CI: Jonathan, Parvati, Ozzy, Nate.
- Nicaragua: Jimmy J, Jimmy T, Marty, Jane, Na'Onka

The obvious difference is that Probst liked Danni, Aras, Yul, and Fabio, but I agree with your general argument that the editors can round out the characters of all. There are usually some big characters, but ever since Tocantins brought us Coach and Samoa produced Russell, Probst has forgotten the value of ensemble casting, and has treated some of the players as the leads, and the others as either supporting or pure extras.

I know that most here don't play the CBS Fantasy Game, because it's hard to play competitively if you don't look at spoilers, although some do. Anyway, the game gives points for name calls by Jeff. Sophie was consistently a horrible pick this season, except for the episodes where she won or finished second in a challenge. Jeff said her name at TC rarely.

In fact, she and Rick were the best overall picks for Biggest Loser, the players who got the least points per episode. Coach had it once. Very unusual for a winner of the game to not be a generally good pick in the FG. Ozzy was a no brainer pick most episodes (as were Matt and Boston Rob last season). Last season, Ashley, Natalie, and Andrea were disastrous picks for most of the season, so Sophie was par with them -- only they weren't winners. Her presence as a Coach cult member was not much better than a Rob's Zombie.

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12-19-11, 11:36 PM (EST)
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81. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
I know Sophie started the season well. I was only talking about the final episode which didn't start well for her when Ozzy called her a spoiled brat. Pretty rare that we hear such negative comments for an eventual winner.
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12-21-11, 11:21 AM (EST)
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90. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
It was rare that "brat" comment was out there. Although in keeping with the Redemption theme Sophie's acknowledgment of how people might see her gives some redemption or self realization. Other then that she had no redemption issues and it seemed sort of a left handed attempt at tying up a perceived loose end.


A Tribe masterpiece


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12-21-11, 07:07 PM (EST)
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92. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
yes, even her redemption story was fit into one episode.
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12-20-11, 09:53 AM (EST)
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82. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
"This is the stupidity of the RI twist. It created hope in the jury that they would have a candidate they liked, then they had one day to get over the disappointment, and it wasn't enough."

That's a really good point, OFG. While I am a fan of the Redemption Island twist (there has to be one person around here who actually likes it...), this is a good reason to not have it.

What I am most looking forward to is next season because there are no returning players! Yay! I feel the returning players mess up the editing in my mind in terms of figuring who is going to make it far. Everyone starting on the same page will help with that.

Oh, and kudos to those who picked up a Sophie as winner vibe early on.

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12-20-11, 10:01 PM (EST)
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85. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
>Oh, and kudos to those who
>picked up a Sophie as
>winner vibe early on.


Yes, that happened just about the same time that the spoilers came out! It's amazing how well some can speculate when they are told the ending.

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86. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
I had Sophie as my early favourite and I helped my wife win her office pool by suggesting Sophie as a winner - her office has two pools, one where they draw names as a random chance (she drew Keith and Semhar) and one where after week one, they try to name the winner based on what was seen in the first episode. I just figured that with the way she was seen in the pre-show promotions and her interaction with Coach, she seemed like a good bet to go with.

(No, I'm certainly not always correct - I had Natalie pegged as my winner after week one last season!)

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12-20-11, 11:34 PM (EST)
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88. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
Sophiee was on my radar from Ep 1, and other people's. My son who doesn't read any boards picked her way early.

She had the requisite Ep 1 presence without any particular reason enforced by Ep 1's plot.

However, I hoped she wouldn't win.
No need to be so dismissive, michel.

I felt strongly that Cochran would not win, and waited through weeks of this topic waiting for the Cochran pick to finally fail. One of the problems with focusing so much on picking a winner early on, is so much potential for endless discussion of why someone wins who ultimately doesn't come close.

I don't like to pick a winner until much later ... I just have my candidates from the beginning, and my rejects (like Albert, Whitney and Keith) from Ep 1. I don't feel the need to start arguing the case right out of the gate.

If spoilers come out before I "stake a claim" to the pick, so be it. It's not a contest.

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12-21-11, 00:23 AM (EST)
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89. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
Sophie was on my radar for the first three episodes but then I thought her story fizzled.

So yes, some certainly could have guessed she had a shot early on but no one was really making a case for her before SurvivorsUnite came out with his spoiler on October 30th:

"We do know now that Coach is in the finals. That Whitney and Keith are dating. That Brandon makes the family visit and goes F6 or 5 after basically quitting (although chances are we won't see it happen that way). Brandon is not in the F3. No one from Savii make F3."

Those that knew this weren't speculating anymore.

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12-21-11, 05:36 PM (EST)
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91. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
I admit that one of the main reasons why I was holding out hope that Sophie would win was because of the spoiler. But people said that SurvivorsUnite might be mistaken because his spoiler about Boston Rob last year turned out to be wrong, so it's not as if his spoiler was treated as solid gold. I didn't know for certain that Sophie won until Maxx Fisher came out with his spoiler, and that was shortly before the finale.


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93. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
I agree. I thought it was very possible, even likely, that the end game spoilers were plants. It was a case of most people were looking to the editing to see whether the spoilers were believable.

I didn't need a spoiler to tell me that Coach and Sophie would make the Finals and that Albert wouldn't win. I was very open, though, to either Ozzy making it to F3 and Albert not, or a Coach win if an Albert, Sophie, Coach trio. I did not think Rick or Brandon were getting to the Finals.

maxx and SU had the same source more than likely, so they both could have been wrong.

It is easy to dismiss people for being "spoiled" when you are not reading the spoilers. In many seasons, the spoilers are no more than someone dubious and anonymous making claims to know something, and there are different people pushing their claims. We had one recent seasons where there was a solid boot list, HvV. The other three recents were more week to week, and Nicaragua list was only definite through the quitter episode. RI was not spoiled.

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12-22-11, 11:53 AM (EST)
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94. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
Yeah, I didn't need any spoilers telling me that Coach and Sophie would make the finals, or that Albert wouldn't win. The editing told me as much. But the part about who won -- I'd need a real spoiler for that, and that's not easy to find!


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12-22-11, 08:09 PM (EST)
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95. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
"I didn't need a spoiler to tell me that Coach and Sophie would make the Finals"

Yet, a week before the spoiler came out you wrote:

"I still like Dawn as a finalist."

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/7706.shtml#257

It was after the spoiler came out that your support changed and you wrote about "Sophie Power".

The spoilers could have been wrong but people obviously went with them.

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87. "RE: A season in a nutshell"
This is nitpicking, but I think you'll agree that a lot of people you named didn't even come close to hogging the headlines the way Cochran and Brandon did, in addition to Coach and Ozzy. We're talking about people who had weeks of editing time and virtually entire promos devoted to them.


>- Outback: Jerri, Colby, Varner, Mike.

Varner and Mike were indeed strong characters but were knocked out early, and a lot of people didn't notice Tina until after the merge, and even then, most of the attention was on Jerri and Colby.


>- Africa: Lex, Big Tom, Frank, Silas

Frank? Silas? Please. Not even in the same postal code as any of Ozzy/Coach/Brandon/Cochran.


>- Marquesas: Rob, Sean, Kathy, John.

Rob was a major personality, but lasted way too short in the game. Sean and John? The Pappy-Neleh storyline took more attention than these two overall.

>- PI: Rupert, Fairplay, Savage, Lill.

Savage was an interesting character but he didn't hog the storylines the way this season's DAWs did, and it was Osten Taylor who grabbed a fair share of attention early in the season but he's not a megaDAW. Rupert was about as big as any two put together of this season's four megaDAWs, though. A fair number of people were surprised to see Sandra winning at the end of this season as most had Darrah winning.


>- Guatemala: Judd, Stephenie, BJ, Gary.

For a returning player, Bobby Jon was rather under-shown. Gary is nowhere near as close to any of the four from this season, although Stephenie's ultra-DAWdom probably more than makes up for it. Danni was pretty quiet in terms of editing for this season.


>- EI: Shane, Terry, Courtney, Cirie.

The Casaya clusterf*** (as Mario so eloquently put it in his Funny 115) were the real attention grabbers as a group more than as individuals for the most part. As individuals, they weren't in the same class, though.


>- CI: Jonathan, Parvati, Ozzy, Nate.

Nate?!? That's really stretching it. Billy was a bigger DAW even with the limited time he was on this season.


>- Nicaragua: Jimmy J, Jimmy T, Marty, Jane, Na'Onka

Too many short-timers and some of them were people that the average viewer wouldn't recall a year from now, therefore they can't be considered megaDAWs.

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