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"Insider for Ep 8"
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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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11-03-11, 04:48 PM (EST)
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"Insider for Ep 8"
Thanks to James Barber, as always. (I didn't bring over the items with Christine, Keith talking about the tribe name, and Rick's monologue)

Lots of good stuff here. Upolu really did a fantastic job of wooing Cochran, including an offer of Final 4. Coach isn't missing a single thing that's going on, while Ozzy seems to be missing...practically everything.

__________________________________________________________

Eyes Wide Open

Coach is skeptical about Ozzy's story of how he was voted out of Savaii.

"I'm walking into Redemption, I look up, and I see Ozzy's missing from the other tribe. The first thing I was thinking was they wanted to get a big player out of the game. That's cool. But Ozzy's great at challenges. Then when he orchestrated the whole story, 'Oh, they blindsided me,' Cochran looking shame-faced, I kinda smelled a little bit. I smelled a ruse. Maybe they were so desperate that they sent him there. They wanted him to win Redemption, come back to them, but look as if he wants to join us."

(cut)

"The story is that Ozzy got blindsided by an idol. They must have vote for Cochran, thinking he was the weak link; Cochran played the idol. Possibly a couple of people knew Cochran had the idol, and they were in on it. That idol being played sent Ozzy to Redemption Island. That's the story."

(cut)

"I don't have enough information right now to buy it or discard it. I've got my eyes wide open right now."

(cut)

"I watched their reactions. Some of them looked happy when he won; some of 'em looked sad. I'm just studying right there. I'm looking and soaking in what's going on. Ozzy and Cochran are on opposite sides of the mat. I'm getting two different kinds of vibes. I want to make sure there's a rat, if I smell a rat. It doesn't change our gameplan, with the 6. Doesn't change how I'm gonna approach Ozzy - I will give him nothing. I will give him no information. And really, tell him that it's in his best interests to not tie the vote up. That's the stupid thing. If he wants to play games with us, we'll find out after the first vote. In this situation, the first vote is the most critical. I'm looking around at the mat, I can't find any clues yet. There's two idols in the game. If one was played last night at Tribal Council, there should be another clue coming into the game. If there's not a clue anywhere around the table - and I will turn that place upside down and I'm watching everybody like a hawk before I'm done with that feast - then I have to assume it's a ruse. Either way, I give them nothing and I take from them everything."

I Smell BS

Coach suspects that the old Savaii tribe is lying.

<Ozzy and Brandon sitting as Brandon works on the fire>
Ozzy: Who's your uncle?
Brandon: Russell. Russell Hantz.
Ozzy: What? That's your uncle? No way.
<shot of Coach listening>
Jim (to Rick): Now, in hindsight, I feel like we should have gotten rid of Cochran. And he hasn't done anything in any of the challenges. Not one thing.
<more of Coach listening>
Dawn (to Rick): And I tried to imagine, what would a Mormon do if she were stranded on an island...
Rick: Are you a Mormon? <she nods> As a young man growing up in the Mormon culture (?), when you said, "I don't drink," I thought, thank you. Amazing how little a world it is. Wow.
Dawn: Oh, that's so fun to know.
Coach (solo): I'm watching everybody in this camp. My job is to figure out this next vote, and figure it out I will. I smell BS. My guess is that the old Savaii tribe is lying through their teeth.
Coach (to Ozzy): There's that one part of our brains that says, well, maybe Ozzy ASKED to be sent to Redemption, so that he could win, and it's like a really good ruse. Just straight up, man to man, we're returning players...just humor me.
Ozzy: Yeah, definitely...
Coach: It's a ballsy move, but it's a damn foolish move. At the moment, I'm just assuming it's 6-6, and so, if you guys made this story...
Ozzy: That would be one of the craziest moves that anyone's ever...
Coach: It's the stupidest, too. If that did happen, and you guys wanna vote together, it really is still 6-6, then we can deadlock and draw rocks.
<Ozzy nods his head and goes "yeah" throughout the conversation>
Ozzy (solo): Coach, he doesn't necessarily buy the story. At this point, we're at a deadlock. It's a deadlock 6-6 vote. We tie up, revote; if we tie again, we're basically gambling that we're gonna draw the right rock. That's an all-or-nothing gamble. I can only hope Cochran can infiltrate Opolu.
Coach (to Cochran): So how are you feeling after last night?
Cochran: I'm hoping it'll get better.
<shot of Ozzy listening>

He's From Utah

Dawn is thrilled to learn that Rick is a fellow Mormon from Utah.
"I've told everyone, since day 1, when the game began, and we were in the Redemption Arena. Rick mentioned he tried out 14 times; I've tried out since I was 30. I'm 40 now, so I kind of felt the similar <operatic voice> fan, desire to be in this game, that has shaped our lives in a lot of ways. I just had this feeling, listening to him at challenges, and hearing words of encouragement, I thought, he's from Utah. I've said all along to our tribe, "He's from Utah, I know it." They thought Texas, because of the big cowboy hat, and the belt buckle, but I just knew it. As soon as we sat down yesterday at the feast, and he said, 'I'm from Utah,' I just thought, the heavens have opened. This is meant to be for me. I know it. It was absolutely exciting. So we share the same religion <operatic voice> - how often does that happen? Not very. I told him, there's a little phrase we jokingly say, stormin' Mormon, and I told him, two Mormons, out of the 12? There's a purpose here, my friend. I don't want to exploit that, but it's absolutely super-valuable for me to have someone with the same background, same community. I can speak to him and he knows what I'm talking about. He doesn't think I'm loopy for having six children. There's a very common foundation that would be very helpful to both of us in the game."

(cut)

"The ideal option at the first Tribal Council, post-merge, would be to get someone like Rick to vote with us. If we're just deadlocked 6 and 6, it would be really to encourage one of their players..."

(cut)
"In order to get this first vote in our favor. The first goal would be to get someone like Rick to vote our way."

Game Is On

Whitney is excited that the Savaii plan worked and Ozzy is back in the game.

"<applauds> Ozzy wins. As I knew he would. You always have, just it being so unknown; it makes you nervous. I was definitely nervous, going in there, but he pulled it through, and won by a longshot, and we're excited. Game on."

(cut)

"Checkmark, Ozzy wins. Checkmark, merge. Checkmark, feast. It's going good. Going good for us so far."

(cut)

"The merge is definitely exciting. We get really comfortable with our group, and on our beach, the way we do things, so it's nice, in the middle of this, to get another jumpstart. We get fed well, have a good feast, and get to have new conversations with everybody, find out things you just guessed about before. You guess what this person does or that person does, and it's nice to find out where everybody's from. You end up finding out you have more things in common than you think with the other tribe."

(cut)

"If Ozzy wouldn't have won the Redemption Island duel, none of this would be as fun. Knowing our plan is happening, huge check marks on the list, we're in good spirits, for sure. It definitely makes the day go so much better. If we were down in numbers and Christine came back, I don't think we'd be near this happy today."

(cut)

"Right now, since today we've just enjoyed the day, but I know, no matter how nice they are, they're a united tribe."

(cut)

"We're a united tribe as well, and we have to keep that in our minds at all times. I am 100% with my tribe. I don't care about the new bonds I make with new people. They're great and that's nice, but I don't feel safe in that relationship, like I do with my old tribe. We just have to keep everybody's eye on us, the Savaii 6. We gotta keep it that way. I definitely know as nice as they are right now, they're gonna have those same thoughts, and they're gonna vote us out, absolutely. It's them against us, no matter how nice and how fun everything seems right now, how much fun we have. The game is still on."

It Was Pathetic

Albert is upset by his tribe's performance at the immunity challenge.

"I came in after the challenge and wasn't exactly a happy camper. I felt like my tribe has absolutely been dragging ##### the last three challenges. The slingshot one, other than me, nobody else made a shot. Today was just pathetic. Every person that Jeff said was going out seemed to be an Upolu member. I didn't want to come into this game feeling like I was the most dominant physical player, because if that's the case, we're in bad shape. I'm nowhere near where I think physically I used to be, and I've seen players before. I knew if I was the #1 guy in my tribe, we were gonna be in a world of pain. It sucks, it pisses me off, because we've had players we've eliminated, like Mikayla, who could have done a lot more today than Edna did. Edna's performance today was frickin' disgusting. She didn't even last a minute."

(cut)

"That just really set me off. Ultimately I knew I could have beaten Ozzy in that challenge, and it sucks because now everyone's going to say, 'oh Ozzy, what a great competitor,' and that whole legend continues to grow. It pisses me off, cause he's just another player here. It's something that hopefully won't change the vote too much, because on the surface the biggest impact it has is that it effects our ability to have a good chance of withstanding the hidden immunity idol."

(cut)

"As it stands right now, we're gonna have a 1-in-3 shot of running into a hidden immunity idol, which would be catastrophically bad for us. We know the 6 of us aren't budging, we're fairly confident we have Cochran on our side, and once we draw the initial tie. Once we don't hit an idol early on, we should be OK. Dawn's protected, Ozzy's protected, Cochran's not really with them, so we have 3 people to select the best candidate who won't be playing an idol tonight."

Feeling Good

Ozzy is proud of winning the first individual immunity challenge.

"First individual immunity, and I'm feeling very, very good. Honestly, I could have done that challenge for another half-hour at least. I was just starting to get into my groove, just starting to get my arm - I started to sweat a little bit, but my arms got past that achy sensation. I could have held out for a while longer. I'm so excited to be at this stage of the game, into the individual immunities, because regardless of what happens with the tribe, I trust myself and have enough confidence in myself to know I can win individual against most of these people in most challenges. I'm feeling very confident, and I'm ready to go on an individual immunity run. It's something I've been waiting years for, and there's nothing that's gonna stop me now."

(cut)

"Today couldn't have been a better showing of, I don't know if you wanna call it luck, or what. The fact is we needed to have individual immunity for not just me, but for a woman as well. We were hoping and praying it would be an option today, and sure enough, man and woman individual immunity. I took it and so did Dawn. It puts us in a great position in terms of odds, especially since I have the hidden immunity idol sitting in my pocket. The odds are in our favor to stay as a tribe after tonight."

Plan for an Idol

Jim explains what Savaii plans on doing with Ozzy's hidden immunity idol.

"The challenge went great today. 2 former Savaii members won immunity, but in reality, me being one of those people doesn't really help that much. Ozzy being one of those individuals that won is actually better than me winning, because by Ozzy winning, it makes the idol a little more of a tribe idol. If Ozzy would have lost today, Ozzy would have been inclined to use that idol for himself, and I wouldn't blame him. With Ozzy winning immunity today, we basically have an idol to use."

(cut)

"I really believe the former Upolu tribe is going to vote for Whitney tonight. I convinced Ozzy and the rest of our tribe to give Whitney the immunity idol when it comes time."

(cut)

"As of right now, my impression is that both tribes that it is going to be a deadlock at the vote. It probably will be a 6-6 tie at the vote, and on the revote. So, by playing the immunity idol, we're getting 2 shots at increasing our chances. First of all, if we play the immunity idol for one of our members, we have a 25% chance that that's the person the former Ulong tribe will vote for. 4-in-1, and we've only got 4 people on the chopping block tonight in round 1. Me, Keith, Whitney, and Cochran. That's it. Those 4. We give Whitney the idol, and boom, I think we're gonna win it right then and there, because I think they're gonna vote for Whitney. Why?"

(cut)

"Because I believe, like my tribe, they have a willingness to go to rocks, and if we go to rocks, they want to have some of the stronger players in there. Me, and Keith. Cochran's a variable, because they probably wanna get rid of Cochran too, based on past seasons. That's my thought process on why they'll vote Whitney, because if it goes to rocks, Whitney becomes immune to rocks, and in their mind, they can get rid of Whit later. She's not gonna win any challenges, she's not in with anybody, she's just walking around, hanging out. Which couldn't have been any better for us, because that gives me a higher likelihood that they're gonna vote for Whit."

Smartest Move

Sophie reveals why Cochran should flip to vote with Upolu versus Savaii

"Cochran should come with us because if this is all true, he's really on the outs with his tribe. His tribe has been mean to him the whole time, and he is the sixth person on his tribe. He is even worried that not only would he be the sixth person on his tribe, that after they got enough of us out, they wouldn't even keep him for the final six."

(cut)

"I also believe that I think Cochran's feelings have been hurt a lot out here, and as smart as he is, I have a feeling that his decision is somewhat emotional as well."

(cut)

"You can never count on someone flipping over, you can never know for sure, and that said, I think I feel as confident about Cochran flipping over as I could hope to feel about someone flipping out here, because flipping is such a crazy thing to do. The reason I feel so confident that Cochran's gonna flip is because he's a really smart guy, and I thought it through, and the smartest move would be for him to flip. The things he's told us, and the way he's been acting, he's said things that were unnecessary, and he's acted in unnecessary ways if he were just playing a game with us. Maybe he's using reverse-reverse-reverse psychology though; I have no idea. I also feel like right now there's no other option, and might as well have faith and wait and see what happens."

Taking the Power Back

Coach reveals that if Cochran is a man of his word, then the bullies will be beaten.

"At the moment, Upolu, numbers-wise, odds-wise, we're down. We got kicked in the teeth today at the challenge. It hurt. Numbers-wise, odds-wise, we're down. But that's OK, because you know what, the former Upolu tribe, which is still the Upolu tribe, has a secret double agent that's playing back and forth. Hopefully Cochran's telling us the truth. I think he is - he's got very everything to lose and very little to gain. I just finished talking to Cochran and I feel confident about things, I feel like he's given us the right intel, and I think we're gonna send the right person home tonight. We'll have a family chat right now and Tribal Council is gonna be the most smashing one of the season."

(cut)

"I have done everything in my power to ensure the Upolu tribe stays together tonight. Flushing the idol from the other side, and I feel pretty comfortable that Cochran's gonna do the right thing. He's tired of getting kicked around. It's every person's dream that's had a bully in their life. They get bullied, they get kicked around, sand in their face. They wait and they hope for that chance to strike back. This is Cochran's day. It's not my day. Yes, I talked to him. Yes, I got him to come over to our side. You know what? It's Cochran's day today. It's Cochran's night tonight .It's Cochran's Tribal Council tonight. I hope he owns it, because it's gonna be a great day, for everybody that's been bullied to sit up there and say, 'We're taking the power back.'"

Offer Final Four

Albert offers Cochran a place in the final four to encourage him to vote with Opolu

Coach: Treat him like a human being. He doesn't have that out here. A little bit from Dawn. I'll tell you the things that are important to him are that you defend him <Albert agrees> and you treat him like a regular human being <Albert agrees>. That's important. What you can do is make him feel that. He'll ask you a question, 'How far will I get?' and you're the guy (?) to get these people to do it. You say, 'Here's the deal, the 4 of us, the 3 of us, with Coach, maybe.'
Albert: We don't want to...
Coach: Make him think he's on the inside track. I think if someone other than me tells him that...now you get him feeling like that, then I'm 100% it will happen.
<Albert is chopping down bananas>
Albert (to Cochran): Something I wanna tell you. I talked to Coach a little bit, and we're pretty aware of what the situation is. The way I see it, it's really Sophie, Coach, and myself...with kind of Brandon, Rick, and Edna on the other side. You come in on our four, and it's gonna kind of put the ball in our court.
Cochran: I would love that. Seriously, immediately, no BS.
Cochran (solo): I'm not getting any offers from the Savaii members. Right now I'm their patsy, their plaything, sent out to gather information, but beyond that, I don't have any final 3 or final 4 promises from any of them. Now I'm being promised a potential final 4 slot with Coach, Sophie, and Albert. I think going with Opolu's the way to go.

Stand Up For Him

Brandon explains why he protected Cochran during Tribal Council

"Tonight, Cochran made the decision to go ahead and vote with the Opulu tribe and vote Keith out of the game. Afterwards, Ozzy, Jim, pretty much everyone on the Savaii tribe other than Dawn, and Keith, since he was heading to Redemption. I had to stand up for him. I had a lot to do with him switching over, treating him well, befriending him. What kind of man was I to let him get beat down for something I had a part in. Wasn't gonna happen. Cochran's a good guy. I wasn't gonna stand back and let him be talked to or demeaned in any way, shape, or form."

(cut)

"I think Savaii are definitely being sore losers. They had no class. They had no integrity, there was no honor. There was no, 'we're gonna be nice to Cochran because we like Cochran.' It was, 'we're gonna be nice to Cochran because we need Cochran for now, and when we can we're gonna get rid of Cochran.' They were giving us a lot of baloney, but when it comes down to it, we're gonna stay strong. Cochran's a good person, we don't wanna, we're playing the game differently. That's why we're having success, that's why God's favoring us. It's by no means by my strength, or Upolu's strength, the favor that God has given us."

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Insider for Ep 8 SquidProQuo 11-03-11 1
   RE: Insider for Ep 8 Brownroach 11-03-11 2
   RE: Insider for Ep 8 Belle Book 11-03-11 3
       RE: Insider for Ep 8 SquidProQuo 11-03-11 4
   RE: Insider for Ep 8 Outfrontgirl 11-09-11 5
       RE: Insider for Ep 8 dabo 11-09-11 6
 Beaten by (unclear) Rules michel 11-09-11 7
   RE: Beaten by (unclear) Rules Outfrontgirl 11-09-11 8
       RE: Beaten by (unclear) Rules michel 11-09-11 9
           RE: Beaten by (unclear) Rules dabo 11-10-11 10
               RE: Beaten by (unclear) Rules Brownroach 11-10-11 11

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SquidProQuo 2281 desperate attention whore postings
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11-03-11, 05:30 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Insider for Ep 8"
Good stuff - thanks for bringing it over, BR. Cochran's move makes more sense now with an F4 promise.

Gotta say, I'm impressed by Coach this time around....we've seen instances with Rick, (on the Mikayla vote), Edna, Albert, Cochran, etc. where he's really using his social/persuasive skills to appeal to players.

After reading this, I feel like Ozzy is even worse than he seemed last night, because Coach clearly told him to his face that he wasn't buying the ruse, so he should have known to go with a Plan B. One thing that's still a bit unclear is whether Cochran was pretending to feed his tribe info or whether he was honest that he got nothing out of of Upolu..i.e. did he tell them to stick with Whitney for the HII? Ozzy and especially Jim and Dawn should have known better to cover their tracks and not tell Cochran the truth about who they're going to vote for (since they had some suspicions about him flipping).

And it sure doesn't seem like they were working the weak links like Edna on the other tribe. Edna must have played a good act despite what she knows from Brandon.

All this said, I still think a Savali could sneak in and win in light of Ozzy's previous quote of wanting someone from his tribe win and the rainbow at the end.

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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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11-03-11, 05:56 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Insider for Ep 8"
Dawn says Savaii wanted to try to get someone like Rick to vote with them for the first vote. Well, did they try? We sure didn't see it if they did.
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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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11-03-11, 07:40 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Insider for Ep 8"
I totally agree with you that the strategic skills of Savaii in general and Ozzy in particular weren't so great. Either they didn't work hard enough on any possible weak links like Edna or even Rick or else they did and we didn't see it.

And Dawn should have told Ozzy that Cochran was thinking of flipping and urged him either not to tell the truth about who they were going to vote for or else urged him to give Cochran the Hidden Immunity Idol since that might have made Cochran less likely to flip.


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SquidProQuo 2281 desperate attention whore postings
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11-03-11, 09:11 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Insider for Ep 8"
Belle, I totally agree that Dawn could have done more. Will be interesting to see if she 'fesses up that she knew and takes any flak -- most likely not. I guess she was leaving her options open. Wish there was more of her thinking in the Insider Clips.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-11, 00:50 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Insider for Ep 8"
>>> Ozzy and especially Jim and Dawn should have known better to cover their tracks and not tell Cochran the truth about who they're going to vote for (since they had some suspicions about him flipping).

The problem was that they had to tell Cochran, because they needed his vote. Otherwise they would not have had a tie vote the first time. It would have been 6-5-1, Keith out.

It would have been helpful if Jim had offered Cochran a F4 position.

However, the way it worked out on the revote, no matter what the offer, drawing the rock means your game is over. Cochran had 100% ability to survive that TC by flipping, over a 1 in 7 chance at drawing the rock. (Five people immune from drawing.)

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-11, 01:29 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Insider for Ep 8"
LAST EDITED ON 11-09-11 AT 01:32 AM (EST)

First: Great stuff, BR, thanks for bringing it over!

Yeah, they did need Cochran's vote in the first round to make it a 6-6 tie. Realistically, if Cochran had decided to flip beforehand and gave Coach solid intel about the vote (for Rick, why Rick?), if Ozzy had covered Keith with the HII Coach would have then immediately covered Rick with his HII, the first vote would have been null. Even if Coach didn't know who Savaii had voted for, he should have covered someone with the HII had Keith been protected.

It would have been helpful if Jim had offered Cochran a F4 position.

Agree. I think a lot of Jim, he has been a great player and kept his head in the game. But if the poker player has one flaw it is he does keep his cards too close to his vest. He could have offered Cochran F3 even, buddied up with him and been Batman to his Robin, Green Arrow to his Speedy, Green Hornet to his Kato, Woody to his Buzz. Much as Cochran values Dawn as a sympathetic mom, he would have valued that buddy-buddy dynamic even more.

(And yeah, five people out of twelve having exemption to drawing rocks, it could have been six had Upolu played their HII! What good is a tie-breaker plan that allows half the players to be exempted?!!)

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-11, 07:05 PM (EST)
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7. "Beaten by (unclear) Rules"
Coach: "I'm looking around at the mat, I can't find any clues yet. There's two idols in the game. If one was played last night at Tribal Council, there should be another clue coming into the game. If there's not a clue anywhere around the table - and I will turn that place upside down and I'm watching everybody like a hawk before I'm done with that feast - then I have to assume it's a ruse."


It seems that Savaii was partly beaten by Survivor's unclear rules. Survivor doesn't replace a pre-merge idol unless both get played:

When Brandon left Tocantins with an idol in pocket there wasn't a new one to replace it. Jalapao's idol was the only one left.

When Russell played his 1st idol and Eric left at the same TC with the second one in his pocket, only one idol was replaced.

The same applied in HvV when Parvati gave out 2 idols. Only one was put back in circulation.

Way back in Fiji, they did replace the idol that Alex played even if Yau Man still had one but that was a long time ago. We will see tonight but I would be very surprised if Ozzy's idol gets replaced.

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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-11, 07:19 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Beaten by (unclear) Rules"
Yes, agreed it will not be replaced.

However, Survivor's rule on this is clear enough. The producers reserve the right to do whatever they wish to do. The rules on how and when they put idols in play are not spelled out in the contract. They can change it up from the precedents, and they are also in search of twists, so it is unwise to rely on previous seasons other than as an "odds are" sort of mental note.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-11, 07:37 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Beaten by (unclear) Rules"
Agreed but Coach seemed certain there should be a new one so that didn't help Ozzy's ruse.

A game is nothing but a set of rules. Vague rules make for a poor game.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-11, 00:34 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Beaten by (unclear) Rules"
LAST EDITED ON 11-10-11 AT 01:38 AM (EST)

I can understand the confusion, though, because we've seen that HIIs played pre-merge do get recycled into the game. If the Savaii HII had been played to boot Ozzy that would be playing it pre-merge. But of course it wasn't actually played.

In recent editions they reduce the HIIs to one by not recycling the first of the two played (or not played by someone booted) post-merge. The only reason there were still two to be played in Nicaragua in episode 13 is they never got played (or booted).

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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-11, 01:02 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Beaten by (unclear) Rules"
LAST EDITED ON 11-10-11 AT 02:14 AM (EST)

The way to think about it is that there is always one new hii to be introduced per tribe. So if an hii gets played premerge on either tribe it will be placed back in circulation for that tribe.

But once they merge into one tribe, any unplayed premerge hii becomes the merged tribe's hii. If both happen to have been unplayed premerge, both become the merged tribe's hiis. But both must get played before another one can be introduced.

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