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"S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
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Conferences Survivor Spoilers Forum (Protected)
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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 04:29 PM (EST)
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"S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Gah, there are so many vote threads and bonus question threads and boot analysis threads and merge threads this week I almost forgot we were going to need an ECST.

Survivor History is being made tonight, apparently in the form of a challenge in which the contestants have to pretend-crossdress. Can we say "excitement?" Either it's that, or some contestant (who's played before and whose name starts with "O") will be voluntarily going to Redemption Island. Of course, the "history in the making" hype neglects to factor in that this is only the second season where it would have been possible for someone to do this. So it hasn't exactly been a long time coming.

As always please keep discussion of the proceedings contained within this thread until the show has aired on the west coast.

*** In memory of vince3 ***

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Another way it can go wrong. Estee 10-26-11 1
 Previously, on Survivor... Flowerpower 10-26-11 2
   RE: Previously, on Survivor... michel 10-26-11 52
 The first actual redemption. Estee 10-26-11 3
 RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-26-11 4
   RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... PepeLePew13 10-26-11 9
       RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-26-11 24
           RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... PepeLePew13 10-26-11 27
 RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-26-11 5
 Post Intro.... Flowerpower 10-26-11 6
   RE: Post Intro.... Brownroach 10-26-11 10
       RE: Post Intro.... Brownroach 10-26-11 12
   RE: Post Intro.... PepeLePew13 10-26-11 11
       RE: Post Intro.... Estee 10-26-11 15
           RE: Post Intro.... samboohoo 10-27-11 81
               RE: Post Intro.... PepeLePew13 10-27-11 84
                   RE: Post Intro.... emydi 10-27-11 87
                       RE: Post Intro.... kiki_k 10-27-11 100
                           RE: Post Intro.... emydi 10-28-11 124
                   RE: Post Intro.... Brownroach 10-27-11 90
                       RE: Post Intro.... PepeLePew13 10-27-11 91
                           RE: Post Intro.... samboohoo 10-27-11 95
                               RE: Post Intro.... Brownroach 10-27-11 96
                           RE: Post Intro.... Brownroach 10-27-11 98
                               RE: Post Intro.... Outfrontgirl 10-27-11 99
                                   RE: Post Intro.... Brownroach 10-27-11 101
                                       RE: Post Intro.... kiki_k 10-27-11 102
                                           RE: Post Intro.... michel 10-27-11 103
                                               RE: Post Intro.... kiki_k 10-27-11 107
                                                   RE: Post Intro.... michel 10-27-11 110
                                                       RE: Post Intro.... Outfrontgirl 10-27-11 112
                                                           RE: Post Intro.... kiki_k 10-27-11 114
                                                               RE: Post Intro.... Outfrontgirl 10-28-11 118
                                                                   RE: Post Intro.... kiki_k 10-28-11 122
                                                                       RE: Post Intro.... emydi 10-28-11 125
                                                           RE: Post Intro.... michel 10-28-11 116
                                                               RE: Post Intro.... Outfrontgirl 10-28-11 120
                                                                   OFG kiki_k 10-28-11 123
       RE: Post Intro.... Brownroach 10-26-11 53
 RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-26-11 7
 Jeff interferes (just a little). Estee 10-26-11 8
 Gag... PepeLePew13 10-26-11 13
   RE: Gag... kiki_k 10-26-11 51
 Benji summons Rover. Estee 10-26-11 14
 RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-26-11 16
 RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-26-11 17
   RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Snidget 10-26-11 25
       RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... PepeLePew13 10-26-11 29
           RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Estee 10-26-11 34
 Ouch... PepeLePew13 10-26-11 18
 RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... J Slice 10-26-11 19
   RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... J Slice 10-26-11 21
 RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-26-11 20
   RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... PepeLePew13 10-26-11 26
       RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Estee 10-26-11 36
       RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-26-11 55
           RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... michel 10-26-11 61
           RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... kiki_k 10-26-11 71
   RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Estee 10-26-11 28
       RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-26-11 67
           RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Outfrontgirl 10-27-11 113
               RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-28-11 117
                   RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Outfrontgirl 10-28-11 119
                       RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... michel 10-28-11 121
 Post RI duel... Flowerpower 10-26-11 22
 Joanna leads a tribe to Immunity. Estee 10-26-11 23
 Vision issues. Estee 10-26-11 30
 Post Challenge #1 Flowerpower 10-26-11 31
   RE: Post Challenge #1 Flowerpower 10-26-11 33
       RE: Post Challenge #1 kiki_k 10-26-11 47
           RE: Post Challenge #1 KObrien_fan 10-26-11 56
               RE: Post Challenge #1 kiki_k 10-26-11 60
                   RE: Post Challenge #1 OllieKat 10-26-11 69
   RE: Post Challenge #1 Brownroach 10-26-11 35
       RE: Post Challenge #1 Brownroach 10-26-11 37
           RE: Post Challenge #1 Estee 10-26-11 38
               RE: Post Challenge #1 michel 10-26-11 58
                   RE: Post Challenge #1 Estee 10-26-11 62
                   RE: Post Challenge #1 Flowerpower 10-26-11 65
                   RE: Post Challenge #1 Brownroach 10-26-11 66
 RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-26-11 32
 RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... J Slice 10-26-11 39
 Jeff's Face at Tribal Snidget 10-26-11 40
   RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal Estee 10-26-11 43
       RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal Snidget 10-26-11 49
   RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal Brownroach 10-26-11 44
       RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal kiki_k 10-26-11 54
           RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal Brownroach 10-26-11 57
           RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal michel 10-26-11 59
               RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal PepeLePew13 10-26-11 63
                   RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal michel 10-26-11 64
                       RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal kiki_k 10-26-11 68
                           RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal Brownroach 10-26-11 70
                               RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal Corvis 10-27-11 72
                                   RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal kiki_k 10-27-11 74
                                   RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal Brownroach 10-27-11 75
                                       RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal kiki_k 10-27-11 76
                                   RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal michel 10-27-11 106
                                       RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal jbug 10-28-11 126
                           RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal michel 10-27-11 79
                               RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal kiki_k 10-27-11 80
                                   RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal PepeLePew13 10-27-11 85
                                   RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal Brownroach 10-27-11 88
                                       RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal dabo 10-27-11 89
                                           RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal PepeLePew13 10-27-11 92
                                               RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal dabo 10-27-11 94
                                       RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal kiki_k 10-27-11 97
                                           RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal michel 10-27-11 105
                                               RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal kiki_k 10-27-11 108
                                   RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal michel 10-27-11 104
                                       RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal kiki_k 10-27-11 109
                                           RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal michel 10-27-11 111
                                               RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal kiki_k 10-27-11 115
 RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-26-11 41
 Pre Tribal Council Flowerpower 10-26-11 42
   RE: Pre Tribal Council CTgirl 10-27-11 73
 Preview. Estee 10-26-11 45
   RE: Preview. kiki_k 10-26-11 50
 RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... Brownroach 10-26-11 46
 Next time on Survivor... Flowerpower 10-26-11 48
 Jeff Touts kiki_k 10-27-11 77
   RE: Jeff Touts Flowerpower 10-27-11 78
       RE: Jeff Touts emydi 10-27-11 82
           RE: Jeff Touts Corvis 10-27-11 83
           RE: Jeff Touts dabo 10-27-11 86
 RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thr... KObrien_fan 10-27-11 93
 Not to offend but Brownroach 10-28-11 127
   And we'll conclude this thread... cahaya 10-29-11 128
       RE: And we'll conclude this thread.... Brownroach 10-29-11 129

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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 05:38 PM (EST)
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1. "Another way it can go wrong."
Mysterious Player Whose Name May Begin With O: 'See? The plan which I did not in any way come up with worked! My game life ended due to inevitable, accepted, and encouraged betrayal -- but then it was resurrected in only three days!'

Talihantz: 'INFIDEL!'

(details of bloody murder edited for space(

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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 08:03 PM (EST)
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2. "Previously, on Survivor..."
I confess, I am really looking forward to the next three episodes! Please let it be surprising....in some way....in ANY way!

Previously, on Survivor....

Day 15 Christine is a force, and she was dangerously close to winning way back into tribe....Ozzy, after a big win they kiss and make up. At Upolu Mikayla is the only one not in the alliance of 6 so C wanted her out....3rd tribal in a row that Brandon had an outburst, but Mikayla is out, with merge looming the next one out could change the game


At Upolu: Edna, not a good feeling to have her name come up every TC. Is Brandon a liability by his outburst every game...yes. C says he'll keep him under control, talking to Rich. C: If there is a time when he becomes a liability just like Lenny in of Mice and Men, there comes a time where it's kill or be killed....cut to commercial and intro...

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 09:09 PM (EST)
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52. "RE: Previously, on Survivor..."
"Please let it be surprising"

May I suggest avoiding spoilers!

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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 08:03 PM (EST)
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3. "The first actual redemption."
Benji promises to personally put a bullet in Brandon's head if the Talihantz tries to mount another assault.

...I always liked him as of five seconds ago.

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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 08:04 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Well Rick did not get a post-TC confessional (sorry KB). It was Edna and Coach riffing on Brandon.
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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 08:13 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
True, he didn't get a confessional, but he was right there with Coach discussing Talihantz's meltdowns - he sure looks like someone who has Coach's ear when it comes to game strategy.
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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 08:35 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
I pointed it out because it related to a bonus question.
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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 08:35 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Ah, gotcha, thanks.
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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 08:08 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
RI duel already. Sophie Albert Ozzy Cochran attend.

Christine is ahead. Albert helping Mikayla.

Ozzy Cochran nod at each other.

Christine wins.

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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 08:11 PM (EST)
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6. "Post Intro...."
LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 09:42 PM (EST)

Day 17 Redemption Island....Ozzy and Cochran for Savaii, and Albert and Sophie for Upolu...take apart a crate and use planks to build a bridge, then use some of those planks to build a puzzle....Here we go...Taking all of the planks off of the crate, Christine takes out a whole side, Christine is ahead...the bridge is a puzzle in and of itself...put them in order, build from start to finish...

I wonder if Ozzy wanted to go again because he already has the idea of going to RI?

Christine is finishing her bridge, Mikayla is getting help from her tribe mates, and Ozzy notices Alberts cheering for Mikayla.

They are looking for patterned pieces...Ozzy and Cochran nod to see Chrisitne in the lead....both working on the puzzle....the redemption island symbol...Mikayla thinbks she has it....NO, Christine now gets it.....and wins, stays alive...they hug, see Ozzy and Cochran clap and Albert shakes his head...

Mikayla makes her realize how much stronger she wants to be....Albert and Sophie are sad....Chrisitne? U have single handedly sent 5 people out of this game....my whole life I have always been a legitimate force....Ozzy gets confessional....Christine...she could go back to her tribe, or come with us...if we lose the next challenge, we may have to send someone to RI to beat Christine....to win we have to make big moves in the this game, and it might be a big move worth making....

WAnted to edit in that when Ozzy first let Cochran in on his plan regarding RI, he talked about the idol. He said that who ever held it would hopefully give it back to him, and Cochran told him, if I held it for you, I would give it back to you....

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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 08:13 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Post Intro...."
The Ozzy Cochran nod made me think the idea was already conceived.
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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 08:15 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Post Intro...."
Or not. Ozzy is suggesting it to Cochran now.
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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 08:15 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Post Intro...."
If Ozzy still thought that Christine could go back to the Upolus, clearly he hasn't been paying attention at all. I think he was there when Christine gave the finger to Rick last week and he was there in this episode when Albert was clearly giving support to Mikayla over Christine.
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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 08:21 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Post Intro...."
The other major flaw (other than this 'Vote me out! Vote me oooout!' plan itself) is in passing the idol off. The rules as we think we know them say Ozzy can go out with it in his pocket and return with an active idol -- should he win his way through. Giving it away for the duration means either we're wrong on the rulebook or Ozzy is taking a giant chance on getting it back. How much would you trust Cochran? As soon as the idol is formally handed over, it's his...

Also note that Ozzy is thinking he'd return to a merged tribe, so the idea of using himself as a time bomb in being revived into the opposition is currently off the table.

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samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 08:17 AM (EST)
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81. "RE: Post Intro...."
I thought the same about the idol. The only thing I could think of is that Ozzy thinks he can beat Christine but, if he can't, he wants to make sure the idol is still with Savaii. If he takes it with him and loses, it's worthless. If he leaves it, he feels he will get it back but it not, it's still there.


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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 11:22 AM (EST)
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84. "RE: Post Intro...."
Right, but don't forget that hiding the idol with Cochran is part of the Trojan Horse plan - it doesn't work if Ozzy leaves it behind in camp without the others knowing where it is or simply telling the tribe as a whole where it is for safe-keeping. What if one of the others (i.e. Keith or Jim) decides to screw Cochran over without telling anyone else and keep the idol for himself? (The tribe won't know who to blame if one rogue tribemate takes off with the clue)

Ozzy knows that Cochran owes him big time for the IC screwup and he knows that Cochran is a student of the game and will be aware of the consequences if he decides to refuse to hand the idol back to Ozzy.

Let's say Ozzy decides to take it with him to RI, he loses, then what?

Take it with him? If he does, then what was all that planning earlier for?

Give it to one of his tribemates right there at the duel? The Upolus would see that and know who to target (or not to target) to smoke out the idol.

The only way the whole scheming would work would be to give it to Cochran and sell the Upolus on Cochran turning evil so they'd target him and consequently whoever the Savai'is target would be idol-bounced from the game.

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 11:37 AM (EST)
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87. "RE: Post Intro...."
The only way the whole scheming would work would be to give it to Cochran and sell the Upolus on Cochran turning evil so they'd target him and consequently whoever the Savai'is target would be idol-bounced from the game.

But then Cochran isn't the Trojan Horse but the target? I would think the Ups would want to target a physically stronger person and I think they want Cochran to go over to Ups

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10-27-11, 05:44 PM (EST)
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100. "RE: Post Intro...."
LAST EDITED ON 10-27-11 AT 05:45 PM (EST)

No, the Trojan Horse is Ozzy -- John called Ozzy that in the episode. The "Trojan Horse" is the one giving the "gift" to Upolo (i.e., that the HII is burned by Cochran playing it & Ozzy being booted by the idol bounce). This is the false info that should lead to the destruction of Upolu at the first post-merge TC. John playing double agent to get info on who on Savaii needs to play Ozzy's HII at that first TC is *not* being a "Trojan Horse," it's being a spy/double agent.

IMO, the confusion here seems to be the accurate analogy to "Trojan Horse."

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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10-28-11, 10:34 AM (EST)
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124. "RE: Post Intro...."
thanks...I'm confused with analogy but on the same page as BR in below post
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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 01:17 PM (EST)
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90. "RE: Post Intro...."
LAST EDITED ON 10-27-11 AT 01:18 PM (EST)

I may be misreading your post, Pepe, but I didn't come away thinking that Cochran is supposed to attract Upolu's votes so he can play the idol. Cochran's assignment is to pretend to defect so he can find out who Upolu is targetting. Then that person will play the idol.

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10-27-11, 01:39 PM (EST)
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91. "RE: Post Intro...."
Yes, that's Cochran's assignment. But what is Ozzy's intention in the long run? It benefits him to have the target placed on Cochran (already got a head start with his discussion with Christine at RI about how he supposedly got knocked out by Cochran) and keep it on Cochran after any/all HIIs have been used up since Ozzy is the challenge god and bigger post-merge target.

I would think Ozzy has considered that the Upolus may not fully trust Cochran even after getting intel from him (i.e. tell Cochran they're voting for X while actually voting Y to see if Cochran follows who they tell him) so he'd want to hedge his bets. We've been given a hint that Coach is keeping an eye out for betrayals with his confessional in an earlier episode about being burned by Russhole in HvV.

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10-27-11, 03:45 PM (EST)
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95. "RE: Post Intro...."
I'm still a little lost here.

Ozzy tells Christine this the plan, but the goal is to beat Christine. Christine has done nothing thus far to lead anyone to believe that she has any intention of giving any information to Upolu if she returns.

Upolu finds out about Ozzy when the show up at RI arena. Is Ozzy's plan then to blab at the arena a la Christine and the mortician (can't remember her name)?


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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 03:54 PM (EST)
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96. "RE: Post Intro...."
LAST EDITED ON 10-27-11 AT 03:55 PM (EST)

Basically, yes, he is going to blab a la Christine and Stacey about what a slimebag Cochran is. And the other Savaiis are going to make it look like they feel the same way.

We don't know how much, if any, of the real plan Ozzy is going to reveal to Christine. In the preview we heard Ozzy tell Christine the same lie he plans to tell everyone at the duel. I was wondering if he might clue her in to a bit of what's going on, just in case he loses the duel.

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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 05:11 PM (EST)
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98. "RE: Post Intro...."
It benefits him to have the target placed on Cochran (already got a head start with his discussion with Christine at RI about how he supposedly got knocked out by Cochran) and keep it on Cochran after any/all HIIs have been used up since Ozzy is the challenge god and bigger post-merge target.

But Im still not following this logic. Making Upolu believe that the rest of Savaii has no use for Cochran should make Cochran attractive to Upolu as a recruit, not as a target. That is the point. If Upolu can flip someone at the merge they theoretically wont have to play their HII to gain the advantage, and Cochran will be looking like the ideal candidate for them to flip.

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10-27-11, 05:38 PM (EST)
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99. "RE: Post Intro...."
If Upolu trusts anyone that they think they have flipped at the merge, it is no wiser than the Heroes trusting Russell at the merge because they believed him to be on the outs, or Zapatera trusting Matt to vote with them.

They might choose not to play the idol, but they should also know they are taking a big chance with any recruit they have just met -- putting the life of their tribe in the hands of a turncoat. Coach SHOULD know better.

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10-27-11, 05:52 PM (EST)
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101. "RE: Post Intro...."
Well, without anyone flipping they have no choice but to play the idol. If someone flips they can at least consider that they might not need to play it. That's what I meant.

And anyway, Coach was pretty naive to trust JT and Stephen. Not sure how much he's learned since then.

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10-27-11, 05:56 PM (EST)
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102. "RE: Post Intro...."
As I said in another thread, with that opening scene of Coach last episode doing T'ai Chi in the water, which could have come right out of a scene of him in Tocantins, I'd say not much. Tocantins Coach is back.
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10-27-11, 08:11 PM (EST)
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103. "RE: Post Intro...."
Tocantins Coach isn't back because he never left! The editors just wanted us to see him differently, that's all. They did a good enough job that many saw him as a possible winner.

As for the Trojan Horse, no doubt it's Cochran. Ozzy will tell the Upolus that Cochran used the idol to vote him out. When they merge, Cochran will be there like a gift to the Upolus to break the 6-6 tie. They should be jumping with joy at the gift, bring Cochran into their fold and tell him who is the target. Cochran tells that person to use the Savaii Idol.

The other possibility is that Coach goes to Ozzy with the offer to vote out the snake. For Coach, it's a win-win situation because Upolu is still up 6-5 and he gains jury points with the 5 other savaii. However, Ozzy would tell Cochran to use the idol.

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10-27-11, 09:09 PM (EST)
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107. "RE: Post Intro...."
LAST EDITED ON 10-27-11 AT 09:10 PM (EST)

I'll say this one last time: you have got the meaning of Trojan Horse wrong. A Trojan Horse is a perceived gift that if accepted leads to one's downfall --as in the giant wooden horse the Greeks gave to the Trojan's as a "peace offering" to end the 10 year war & which the Trojans accepted & took behind their city walls. At night, the Greeks emerged from inside the horse & slaughtered the Trojans.

A double agent is NOT a Trojan Horse -- he is a double agent (i.e., someone who pretends to be on 1 side when he is really only gathering intel to help the other side).

The perceived "gift" here is Ozzy telling the Upolu's at duel that the entire Savaii tribe wanted John out, but John had the HII, used it to save himself & Ozzy got booted via the idol bounce. If the Upolu's accept this "gift" it will lead to their down fall as they will (1) think no one on Savaii has a HII; and (2) see John as an outcast who they can flip. If the Trojan Horse part works THEN and ONLY THEN does the "John as double agent" part 2 of the plan come into play.

I honestly don't think I can make it clearer than that. John is NOT the Trojan Horse; Ozzy is. In fact, John himself said Ozzy is the Trojan Horse this last episode, if you don't believe me. But trust me, I know my Homer.

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10-27-11, 10:22 PM (EST)
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110. "RE: Post Intro...."
It's so much fun to split hairs with you!

Cochran will offer his vote as a gift to the Upolus. They will accept it and tell him whom to vote for. That will lead to their downfall. Therefore, Cochran is the Trojan Horse and double agent all at once! The Horse and the Greek soldiers all in one. Or, to make it clearer, it's Cochran's possible vote to help Upolu that is the Trojan Horse while Cochran himself is the double agent.

If Ozzy wanted to be the Trojan Horse, he could simply act towards Savaii like Christine is acting towards Upolu.


BTW, I haven't listened again but I thought Cochran said Ozzy wanted him to be the Trojan Horse. Don't worry, I'll listen again but at the time, I don't think the plan was fully formed.

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10-27-11, 11:29 PM (EST)
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112. "RE: Post Intro...."
LAST EDITED ON 10-27-11 AT 11:33 PM (EST)

I love Homer!
The fullest version is in Book 2 of Virgil's Aeneid.

As a definition:
a "Trojan Horse" has come to mean any trick or stratagem that causes a target to invite a foe into a securely protected bastion or space.

It's not necessarily a person at all; it's the strategem:

Stratagem -- conceived by Ozzy.
Target -- Upolu tribe
Foe invited in --Cochran
Secure bastion --Upolu tribal ranks and their secret strategy.

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10-27-11, 11:37 PM (EST)
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114. "RE: Post Intro...."
LAST EDITED ON 10-28-11 AT 00:02 AM (EST)

I didn't say it had to be a person, which is why I pointed out here that the "gift" itself was the lie-- it's the gift that is the "Trojan Horse" -- the Trojan Horse wasn't the Greeks inside the horse -- although granted, the Greeks being inside of the horse was part of the strategy. I said it was a gift the acceptance of which would lead to one's downfall.

In this case, the Trojan Horse happens to be a person as Ozzy is playing the part of the Trojan Horse. John is the "foe invited in" (i.e., double agent). But the foe invited in is NOT the Trojan Horse. And calling John the Trojan Horse just messes up the whole understanding of the way the strategy works.

Homer didn't write the Aeneid, Virgil did. And having had to read the original Iliad in both Greek & translate it from the original Ancient Greek, trust me, I don't care too much about Virgil's retelling of the story. (eta: I don't mean that as any kind of insult against Virgil or the Aeneid -- just my personal feelings. I've read the story enough).

@michel -- yes, Cochran did say he didn't want to be the Trojan Horse, because he didn't want to go to RI; he wanted Ozzy to go to RI & be the Trojan Horse.

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10-28-11, 00:48 AM (EST)
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118. "RE: Post Intro...."
I wasn't arguing with you, kiki! I agree with you ...

>>> Homer didn't write the Aeneid, Virgil did.

lol, well that's why I called it Virgil's Aeneid.

I have much admiration for you knowing ancient Greek! I never even tried.
I read the Odyssey in translation numerous times, and I took Latin classics in translation as an upper division Classics course; that is where I spent weeks working through Virgil.

I admire your purism and grasp of the original I don't think the CBS folks are as pure though. I think they work with the modern concept of what Trojan Horse has come to mean. Unless they have a Classics major in their fold.

I think you are right, but it is probably not worth arguing about with michel unless the interpretation makes for a different prediction of what will transpire.

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10-28-11, 09:14 AM (EST)
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122. "RE: Post Intro...."
LAST EDITED ON 10-28-11 AT 09:26 AM (EST)

@OFG
Bwahahahahaha! I honestly didn't even see that you wrote Virgil in your OP, and I chalk that up to my ambivalence about Virgil & the Aeneid. I'm sorry about that.

See, in retrospect, it is kind of cool that I read both the Iliad & the Odyssey in Ancient Greek, but it wasn't really by choice, so I'm not worthy of much admiration about it. My mom is from Greece & I grew up bi-lingual, but to ensure that I was completely literate she also taught me to read & write Greek --perfectly acceptable so far, right? We had these lessons daily & consistently with books written in Greek (appropriate for my age level) etc. As I got older, of course, I felt like I didn't have to continue (what kid wants more school) and she said the "Greek Lessons" would stop once I was proficient enough to read the Iliad & the Odyssey. By about 13 I did read them & enjoyed them.

Little did I realize at the time that even though what I read was in Greek, they were translated from the Ancient Greek. When I had read them, my mom informed me that now we were going to learn Ancient Greek so I could read the "real thing" (and, every Greek kid that makes it to high school learns Ancient Greek, or at least back when my mom was a kid they did, so of course she knew it). And that's what we did -- replaced the regular Greek lessons with Ancient Greek lessons & in a few years I read the Iliad & the Odyssey again in the original language.

However, I've never gotten over my feelings of being tricked by my mom with that whole thing, so when I first heard of Virgil's Aeneid I was like "oh, hell no!" and I've stayed away from it my entire life. Seriously, to this day, I haven't read it & I can pretty much guarantee you that I will not (although I have gone back to read the Iliad & the Odyssey).

eta: I'm very sorry that I sounded argumentative/defensive in my previous post -- I plead displaced frustration with others. But you are right, it really isn't worth arguing about as no one involved in the plan itself or CBS is drawing that fine a point on it.

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10-28-11, 10:39 AM (EST)
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125. "RE: Post Intro...."
10th grade Latin III class whole year of translating Virgil's Aeneid. As you can tell, I don't remember squat
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10-28-11, 00:02 AM (EST)
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116. "RE: Post Intro...."
"Stratagem -- conceived by Ozzy."

I totally agree with this: Ozzy built the horse. But the horse itself is the possibility that Cochran will give his vote to Upolu! It's a vote that Upolu wants.

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10-28-11, 00:57 AM (EST)
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120. "RE: Post Intro...."
Yes, agree with that too, michel. They want his vote.
I wonder if they want to know where Savai'i is putting the vote, just in case.

That said, I think that as Trojan Horse was the Ep 7 title, and didn't even involve Upolu, that "Trojan Horse: was about last episode's conception of the plan and choosing who to send.

I'm not going to get hung up on how that model applies to Ep 8. It's done, even though the plan is still in motion.
Ep 8 moves along to the merged interaction, and the title is "Double Agent" -- so my head is more into that mode now.

Also I have been watching "Spooks" on Netflix streaming (MI5), so the counter-espionage thing is on my radar.

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10-28-11, 09:30 AM (EST)
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123. "OFG"
When these threads get so long, they get confusing. Please read my post #122 which is above ^^^ that is in response to your last post to me.

I'm sorry for sounding defensive & you are right, I'm drawing too fine a point on it. But I basically what I'm saying is what you are saying.

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10-26-11, 09:14 PM (EST)
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53. "RE: Post Intro...."
Ozzy did attend the duel last week and saw Christine flip the bird. Maybe he was suspicious that it is a ruse they concocted. Although it would be stupid to vote someone out *that* early if you are banking on them coming back.

He may just be thinking cautiously.

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10-26-11, 08:11 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Jeff says Christine is a legitimate force. Ozzy contemplates sending a Savaii to RI that can beat her.
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10-26-11, 08:12 PM (EST)
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8. "Jeff interferes (just a little)."
In telling the duelists what the puzzle pieces were going to add up to. Instead of working it out for themselves, they could just glance up at the model -- which Christine has arguably seen more times than anyone. It's not much of an interference, but...
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10-26-11, 08:17 PM (EST)
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13. "Gag..."
Coach's doing the meditating while the helicopter's hovering around him thing again.
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10-26-11, 09:07 PM (EST)
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51. "RE: Gag..."
And reminding me again why I don't like Coach. Gone is HvV Coach (who I actually felt sorry for) and back is idiot Tocantins Coach. Blech.

It's a shame too, because he's a good looking guy until he opens his mouth.

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10-26-11, 08:18 PM (EST)
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14. "Benji summons Rover."
He is #0.
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10-26-11, 08:21 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Coach muses on telling everyone they found the idol. I sense another Brandon outburst coming. Coach prays, pretending they haven't found it. Sophie thinks it's questionable. Now they pretend they *just* found it. Time for IC.
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10-26-11, 08:23 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 08:24 PM (EST)

Reward is sneak peek of an Adam Sandler movie? WTF?

This plays into the challenge theme in a stupid sort of way.

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10-26-11, 08:35 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
That? is NOT a reward.
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10-26-11, 08:37 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Better to laugh at something on a screen than to listen to Talihantz's bleatings once again, so it's a win-win reward.
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10-26-11, 08:43 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
As if he's not going to have issues with crossdressing. And the release of two eggs at once? Unnatural!
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10-26-11, 08:25 PM (EST)
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18. "Ouch..."
LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 08:26 PM (EST)

Dawn, Edna and Sophie are all pulling a Chet in the IC - getting dragged around like carcasses behind Joel and getting their brains beaten in by logs. There's also a lot of butt-kissing, at least two cases of nostrils being firmly planted on the butt of the person ahead of them.

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10-26-11, 08:28 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
A prize: seeing the new Adam Sandler movie.

That isn't very nice, Survivor.

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10-26-11, 08:32 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Also, Jesus has been invoked.

Again. Dude must LOOOOOVE reality tv.

And Ozzy has a huge tantrum.

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10-26-11, 08:31 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Savaii is ahead.

Cochran is messing up the rope unraveling. Now Upolu ahead.

Cochran did not hook Ozzy and Whitney to the rope properly.

Upolu wins. Coach prays some more. Is this for Brandon's benefit?

Ozzy is frustrated. He is clearly mad at Cochran. Cochran thinks he's toast again.

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10-26-11, 08:35 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Wonder if Ozzy is over-selling it as part of his plan to make it seem like he's totally fed up with his tribe -- laying the seeds of the Trojan Horse approach? If he just shrugs off the loss as he typically does, Upolu might not feel he's fed up with his tribe and would be more wary after the merge of Ozzy's intentions.
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10-26-11, 08:44 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Except that they seemed to be off the beach for the verbal followup.
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10-26-11, 09:21 PM (EST)
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55. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
I wondered that, but I think he was genuinely angry at first, because it clearly would have been better if they had won and no one had to go to RI. So I believe he was initially happy to just boot Cochran since Cochran failed them.
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10-26-11, 09:46 PM (EST)
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61. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
That's how I read it also.
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10-26-11, 11:34 PM (EST)
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71. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
I thought it was a combo of the two. Ozzy didn't *want* to go to RI (he wanted Savaii to go into merge up one with the possibility of the Upolu returnee joining them) and he wanted to do a little "show" for Upolu.

I also think he was sincere about giving John the chance to redeem himself (since it was totally his fault the challenge was lost; if it hadn't been, I don't think Ozzy would have asked John to "volunteer" to go to RI); when John didn't step up, but instead talked about his insecurities, Ozzy was determined to follow through with his initial plan.

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10-26-11, 08:36 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Given the degree of screwup on the ropes, I briefly entertained the thought that Cochran might be trying to throw the challenge in order to force Ozzy into following through on his commitment. Forget the numbers: he's got a plan! It's a lawyer's plan! It involves a free idol which he intends to keep! But then he went into confessional and presumably didn't lie there, so...

Maybe he just hates Adam Sandler that much?

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10-26-11, 11:25 PM (EST)
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67. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
I know what you mean but I think Cochran is just hopelessly inept. If Peter Ustinov were still alive he would play Cochran in the movie.
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10-27-11, 11:36 PM (EST)
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113. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Ustinov?
Do you mean Peter Sellers, BR?
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10-28-11, 00:10 AM (EST)
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117. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
LAST EDITED ON 10-28-11 AT 00:15 AM (EST)

Peter Sellers would certainly work too, but I was thinking of Ustinov in his Topkapi mode, which I think he repeated in several other films.

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10-28-11, 00:51 AM (EST)
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119. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Aha. I never saw Topkapi, no wonder I didn't get it.
When you said inept, my mind jumped to Inspector Clousseau.
Thanks for explaining, BR.
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10-28-11, 07:37 AM (EST)
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121. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
I think Cochran was hoping for Woody Allen.
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10-26-11, 08:32 PM (EST)
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22. "Post RI duel..."
Savaii, day 17: butterfilies....Zozzy is talking to Cochran, us being in the same side...we should help each other...Christine won today, if we dont win we are going to have to send someone to RD Island....I wanted to let Cochran in on my last ditch plan...i don't want to go to RI but if it's do or die, I will go....he'd have to give the idol to someone and hopefully they'd give it back to me...considering lending his II to someone else...Cochran telling us about the bold idea...

Ozzy, it might be one of those big moves that I might have to make, it's my worst case scenario, sometimes you have to sack up and go for it

Cochran: he's gone from a whiney baby to sucking it up, iand if he goes that would be great for me, then I wouldn't have to go...

Upolu: Coach praying in the water, we see the tai chi Coach in the water with the sun behind him...we have to say look we have th eHII, go team, there are ways within Survivor to survive!

Se eRainbow, and then Coach, we have to find the idol today....we are playing this great adventure, Brand. says we have the clue...it's close to the beach but it's in the jungle....so we have to pretend like, we found it. See Coach praying to gain favor in the challenge, and Brand asking to find the idol, and C asks for a victory

Sophie: Confessional about C praying, it gives her an icky feeling

See Rick, Edna, and Brandon looking for the clue, see C and Sophie getting tree mail, Coach reads the mail, everything depends on the best pair of twins...Coach gets confessional...then Sophie reads...C says they need to make a detour, grab the idol, and just say, this is our day, this is our day...

They show th email and say they found the iodl...Brandon picks up Edna and shakes her...we found it, Sophie and C! WOOOOO look at that, we asked God to help us find it and we did, pray together, stay together...

Challenge:

Here they are all dressed up....see C and Ozzy, the winner will be safe from TC and have a one member advantage, and winner gets movie, of Jack and Jill with Adam Sandler, sneak peek, with popcorn, soda, etc. Jack and Jill is about a brother and sister, twins...they need each other to survive, you need each other to survive....one set of twins are callers, the other two sets are blindfolded. Callers lead them thru to get 4 bags, then 1 set of twins will blindfolded do the puzzle with help of caller.

Callers: C and Rich, and Savaii Jim and Cochroach

Edna takes a hard hit, Keith trying to drag dawn....Brand and Edna have first bag, Keith and Dawn back, now the others, Cochran is on rope management for Savaii....Ozzy and Whit diving thru this course, and Albert gets second bag, and so does Ozzy...Sophie takes a big fall...Upolu has 2nd bag...

Keith and Dawn looking for 3rd bag, and Br. has his, and so does Keith, back they are neck and neck, Dawn down in the water....

Edna is just holding on to Brand. Savaii taken the lead....Cochran having trouble...and he's getting them all tangled up....Upolu takes the lead, Cochran has tangled them all up...

Savaii lost a tremendous amount of time....Albert has the 4 th bag, and Ozzy goes with Whit, now they are tied, and Ozzy and White are going with them.....Ozzy and Whit slowing down, having trouble on the rope, they continue to struggle....Albert and Sophiehave the right bags, but Ozzy and Whit have to untie the bags, see C praying for victory....Alber t and Sophie win....Ozzy slams his blindfold off, and he's really upset....C is praying like a madman....in Jessus name amen, and they jump up and down and Ozzy is PISSED, so pissed, he slams into the building structure...this family, we had hidden trust, we are a family, a great group of people over here....

....what is this, way TOOOO MUCCCH prayer group....

Jiffy asks, What's up with the intensity? Ozzy says pure frustration and anger, I can't even begin to describe the frustration, now we have to go to Tribal...he is SO pissed.
Cochran: says that before the challenge Ozzy had the plan to send me to RI, but now that I choked I feel like that plan went right out the window, I felt like crying....cut to commercial

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10-26-11, 08:33 PM (EST)
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23. "Joanna leads a tribe to Immunity."
Careful about handling the idol, dear: it's bad for your afterlife. Ye gawds. I know Benji's always had some religious element to him, but he's never been that over the top. Has he found a new summit or is he just trying to keep Brandon's heavy weapons pointed at someone else?

Oh, and about the Reward itself -- here's the single most insulting thing I can say: Alison Grodner would be proud.

Minor production Clap for a series that usually doesn't get them: excellent designs on the wrapped blindfolds.

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10-26-11, 08:40 PM (EST)
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30. "Vision issues."
Is Cochran nearsighted or farsighted? He didn't have his glasses on at any point during the challenge. Farsighted and he can serve as caller, but he'll have trouble with the ropes. Nearsighted and he can see the ties to work with them, but anything out in the water is a lost cause. And either way, it's a weird omission.
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10-26-11, 08:41 PM (EST)
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31. "Post Challenge #1"
LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 10:04 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 09:24PM (EST)

Cochran doesn't know how LUCKY he is in that tribe....

Edna gets the fst confessional, this reward is so great with hot dogs and candy, see them eating and laughing...see Albert laughing...then C and Sophie, C loved it, loves Adam Sandler, it was good because it had a message, family comes first, this will get tough, there will come a point of compromise...and now we are ready to play the 2nd half of this game...brand, good job everybody...

Savaii at night coming back....It was a disaster Ozzy says, we could have won it so easily, Cochran says he cried like a baby the whole way back, if you want to vent at me, go ahead. I always felt like an outcast on my tribe, a new level of ostracism,, vent at me, Keith: it's not about venting it's about who goes to RI....Cochran: at that moment I felt I had been safe now I feel like that I am the target...Ozzy says it was a huge error and it ended up costing us the win...I feel horrible, Cochran says he should be held accountable...

ETA exactly what Cochran said...Cochran said that he appreciated the words of encouragement to all of them, and Dawn noted, it's not words of encouragement, it is actually redemption, it's time to redeem....we have serious dramatic music playing along with this. Then it cuts to Cochran the next morning in a confessional...Basically what it comes down to, instead of sending Ozzy in on a Trojan horse to RI, to shock everybody in a merge and destroy Christine, and even the odds, they are sending in the court jester and I don't know what I 'm supposed to do in part....a funny little dance or shake my hands around in a comical manner. It's not going to win the challenge and it's probably not gonna get that many laughs so I don't know what they were hoping for....

Then cut back to Ozzy at night...feel it in your heart man, you CAN win man, you can! (prophetic words???) Jim then tells him. you can beat her at everything that I have seen played, and everything that we can anticipate


Everyone was on board with voting me out, and what's worse is that they had this sort of weird kum by yah rational for voting me off that only confirmed their belief that I should go, so I am terrified if I should go. I don't need to be a hero at RI (as we see OZZY when he says that!, who will be the hero at RI), I don't need to be the person that saves my tribe. I am not here to be the hero, I am here to make it as far as I can whether that means slithering on the ground or whatever. I am not willing to shine right now, (and again we see Ozzy), I am willing to shine later or not gonna shine at all, I just don't want to go to RI. Then we see Ozzy and Cochran at the fire and Ozzy says: You are gonna go in there and you are gonna tell Christine, you are gonna make it so palpable, that Christine's gonna be like, Cr*p...that's it...I'm done! He says he doesn't know how he's going to pull of the ole I'm indestructable so you better be shaking in your boots you stupid beyotch! They all laugh, and Ozzy says, Why not?

Ozzy says Cochran volunteered to go, he says you have to believe in yourself, it's time to believe...now they say they are going to send me...I don't know what they are hoping for, feel it in your heart, you can win, Dawn says don't be afraid, you can push the fear out....Cochroach says, I am scared to death, I am not here to be a hero, I don't want to shine now, I just don't want to go to RI....tell Christine that you are going to make is so palpable, that's it, I'm done....

OMG, they are sending Cochran, and not Ozzy....wow, we really read that one wrong!

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10-26-11, 08:42 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Post Challenge #1"
Cochran is telling us that he isn't going to be the hero, Ozzy will, imo...
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10-26-11, 09:03 PM (EST)
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47. "RE: Post Challenge #1"
Ozzy gave him the chance to redeem himself & he ran away like a baby from it, describing himself as the "court jester of Survivor" (compared to Ozzy being the "hero of Survivor") and said he doesn't want to be the hero, he just wants to stay in for as long as he can, slithering on his belly.


No way is he winning this thing. If a Savaii wins, it will be Dawn or Ozzy.

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10-26-11, 09:24 PM (EST)
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56. "RE: Post Challenge #1"
I disagree, he will slither his way to the end to win the million, he told us this tonight. He even had a million dollar quote.


I'm not sure who came first hosting games, you or Tribe, but you are both nefarious! - CTGirl

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10-26-11, 09:45 PM (EST)
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60. "RE: Post Challenge #1"
LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 09:47 PM (EST)

Of course I disagree!

First, when he was talking about "slithering" he didn't say to the end, he said he'd do it "to stay as long as he can in the game."

Second, if the million dollar quote you are talking about is what he said at the end: He was lying/exaggerating about "getting" Ozzy out (Ozzy asked to be voted out); he was lying/exaggerating about "getting" Ozzy's HII (Ozzy gave it to him); thus, his words about the million are just a big talk from someone too afraid to walk the walk. That "million dollar quote" was all comic relief from the Court Jester.

IOW, it is all misdirection to make us think John is going to flip to build some suspense on Ozzy's plan (and it was Ozzy's plan, for the naysayers who were trying before this episode to give John & Jim credit for it) works. When Ozzy comes back in, John is going to hand him back the HII as promised. He isn't physically or emotionally capable of doing anything else.

And, in fact, even though I don't like John (again with the b word out of his mouth!) I don't think he is an awful person. What kind of awful person would have have to be to keep Ozzy's HII after promising in front of everyone to "give it back to him tomorrow"). I don't believe he'd do that; besides the fact that he isn't RussHell, he'd lose every single Savaii vote on the jury if he did.

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10-26-11, 11:28 PM (EST)
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69. "RE: Post Challenge #1"
Not surprisingly I agree with your entire post kiki

I did have to laugh at the fact that there's John who said in the first episode that he couldn't understand why they'd want to vote him out when there were girls and older people there; and then in this episode we find out he's scared of facing Christine (an older "girl") on R.I. and that Jim considers Dawn more of a guy than John. Ha! In fact double Ha!

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10-26-11, 08:44 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Post Challenge #1"
I think Ozzy is going to change his mind.
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10-26-11, 08:47 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: Post Challenge #1"
LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 08:49 PM (EST)

Now Ozzy thinks better of things, is going to present his plan to everyone. He shows everyone the idol. Keith is skeptical. Time for TC.

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10-26-11, 08:50 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Post Challenge #1"
Keith's point is legitimate, though -- the assumption they're making on the timeline is a huge one. This is Shii Ann territory: screw up the prediction on the merge/revival and they can pretty much start sounding the Pagong.
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10-26-11, 09:34 PM (EST)
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58. "RE: Post Challenge #1"
Except for one thing: Production must love the idea. I'd bet that even if the merge wasn't planned, it is now.
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10-26-11, 09:46 PM (EST)
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62. "RE: Post Challenge #1"
*nods*

I'll give you that. Irony shots are only good for an episode or two (plus jury sessions), Hail The Conquering Something Or Other can carry them until any subsequent vote-out. They just might rewrite the schedule around this move.

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10-26-11, 10:23 PM (EST)
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65. "RE: Post Challenge #1"
I have to admit, michel, I was thinking the same thing...
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10-26-11, 11:16 PM (EST)
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66. "RE: Post Challenge #1"
We'll have to see if the IC looks like a tribal challenge that was reconfigured as individual.
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10-26-11, 08:41 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Coach is full of BS. And he loves Adam Sandler.

Ozzy dumping on Cochran. But Ozzy thinks it's risky to send Cochran to RI. But now they are trying to convince Cochran to go. This is sounding like maybe the acting job Maxx mentioned? Cochran is supposed to be all confident.

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39. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
You know what would be funny? If Cochran refused the necklace and left.
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10-26-11, 08:52 PM (EST)
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40. "Jeff's Face at Tribal"
A what kind of insane Survivor fan fic did I just wake up in, because this cannot be real.
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10-26-11, 08:56 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
*dark look*

I suppose you're going to claim this is somehow my fault.

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10-26-11, 09:04 PM (EST)
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49. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
Like you would include something that improbable.
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10-26-11, 08:57 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 09:05 PM (EST)

This is pretty much the most exciting strategy to happen on Survivor since forever.

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10-26-11, 09:18 PM (EST)
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54. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
ITA! For the last few seasons (including Boston Rob's) I've just been going through the motion with Survivor & without this board I might have just quit it all together. Now, because of Ozzy & this crazy, insane, move that *only* he would attempt, my love is back. I *actually* cannot wait to see how this plays out.

Of course, if Ozzy loses the duel, I'm back to "going through the motions" again.

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10-26-11, 09:26 PM (EST)
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57. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
The way the editing is building this up I can't believe Ozzy will lose the duel. And they gave Christine what I thought was a kind of that-was-her-swan-song vibe after the duel.
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10-26-11, 09:37 PM (EST)
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59. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
JT giving his idol to Russell was on par with this.
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63. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
And note the differences between the two cases - JT giving it to Russhole was treated more as a comedic moment, while this one with Ozzy giving it to Cochran was hyped as one of the biggest moves in Survivor history.
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10-26-11, 10:15 PM (EST)
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64. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
Which is why it will succeed.

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10-26-11, 11:25 PM (EST)
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68. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 11:28 PM (EST)

If by "succeed" you mean John will give Ozzy back his HII when Ozzy comes back into the game, then yes, it will. Another HUGE point of difference between Ozzy & JT -- JT & Russell were *not* on the same tribe; JT gave it to him without complete info on the "hunch" that it was a female alliance over on the villain tribe; Russell *owed* JT nothing.

In this case, not only is John on the same tribe as Ozzy (thus, owing him tribal loyalty), Ozzy just saved his a$$ for real AND Ozzy gave him the HII in front of the rest of the tribe & John explicitly promised in front of the rest of the tribe to give it back to him when Ozzy "comes back tomorrow." HUGE, HUGE, HUGE differences to the point that it is no where NEAR the same scenario. Not only was the giving the HII to John conditional (and JT's giving the HII to RussHell was NOT), if John doesn't give Ozzy back his HII, he will lose every.single.Savaii vote on the jury.

And, as I wrote up-thread, John is not the sociopath that RussHell is, even if he wants to pretend play one on TV. I don't like the kid, but I don't think he is an awful, terrible person and he would have to be 100x the jerk that RussHell is to not keep his promise. Anything that might make us think otherwise is misdirection to build suspense as to whether Ozzy's plan works.

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10-26-11, 11:29 PM (EST)
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70. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
I tend to agree that Cochran cannot possibly win if he backstabs Ozzy after what Ozzy did for him.
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10-27-11, 00:16 AM (EST)
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72. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
Sure, he can. It's all about who you're sitting next to.
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10-27-11, 00:57 AM (EST)
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74. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
Like Russell against Natalie White -- oh, wait.

There isn't another "salon girl" Natalie AND a Crazy Phillip to sit next to this season -- and the 2 others would have to be worse than the 2 of them for John to win (if he, in fact, backstabs Ozzy with the HII, which I don't believe he does).

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10-27-11, 00:59 AM (EST)
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75. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
But the editing thus far has been all about loyalty and integrity and redemption. If Cochran and Ozzy go to Final 3 together (which I would like to see after tonight) I think Cochran might possibly win.

Of course it's always possible that the counter-to-what-the-editing-emphasizes person wins out, but unusual.

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10-27-11, 01:02 AM (EST)
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76. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
LAST EDITED ON 10-27-11 AT 01:06 AM (EST)

Yes, and I would like it noted that Ozzy told John they were polar opposites but still on the same side so they should work together. Exactly what I've been saying all along. John can't win without Ozzy (saving him, cause lets face it, John would be last to Losers Lodge if not for Ozzy); and Ozzy can't win without John (helping him get to the end). Natural foils, each needing what the other lacks.

Although honestly, it would have to be one bunch of bitter jurors to not give Ozzy the win if he makes it to F3 -- he should have secured each of the Savaii votes if this move works (which I think it will) and the move has got to be worth at least 1 or 2 Upolu votes (in an all Savaii F3).

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10-27-11, 08:29 PM (EST)
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106. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
>Sure, he can. It's all about
>who you're sitting next to.
>


You got that right because the jury always votes for who they like most. LMAO!

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10-28-11, 01:06 PM (EST)
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126. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
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10-27-11, 07:33 AM (EST)
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79. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
I'm not comparing the players but the move.

JT's move was a way to get the numbers at the merge by saving Russell and getting him to flip once the tribes were united.

Ozzy's move is a way to get the numbers at the merge by returning to his tribe and fooling Upolu in thinking that they are divided. Upolu will tell the Trojan Horse (funny that it's Cochran and not Ozzy himself!) who they are voting for in that 6-6 tie and Cochran will give THAT person the HII.

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10-27-11, 08:14 AM (EST)
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80. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
I was comparing the "moves" too, not the players.

One move was done on a hunch, was cross-tribal & was unconditional. Once the HII left JT's hand, it was Russell's unconditionally to do with as he wanted.

One move was done with complete information, was in the same tribe & was conditional. Ozzy's HII is still Ozzy's, John is just a temporary caretaker.

Anyone who gets Ozzy's HII at merge on Savaii gets it FROM Ozzy, even if John is the one who physically hands it over.

That, every bit of which I laid out above, has nothing to do with the players, but the move itself.

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10-27-11, 11:27 AM (EST)
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85. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
... which is why I believe the editing is being slanted toward a win by Cochran, rather than Ozzy.

The average viewer is being led to believe that Cochran is doing "something" to pull the strings in the game, even if we spoilers are seeing it as Ozzy's move via proxy. I'd bet that if Ozzy was the winner, the editing would have cut out Cochran's confessional.

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10-27-11, 12:32 PM (EST)
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88. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
One move was done with complete information

Not quite complete: they don't actually know when the merge will arrive. That part was a hunch.

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10-27-11, 12:53 PM (EST)
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89. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
It is a logical assumption, just not an absolute certainty. With 18 players in a 39 day game, no one actually eliminated from the game in the first two episodes, no double eliminations so far, and the network needs to conclude this series before Christmas, production has to do something at some point to eliminate some excess players.
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10-27-11, 01:43 PM (EST)
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92. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
That's true... but the contestants aren't sitting there and counting how many episodes they'd have left to fit into a filming schedule - they're working on a game schedule not a network schedule.

I would love for the contestants to make a Shii Ann-esque assumption and see what their faces look like when Jeff says "see, you shouldn't have assumed there'd be a merge so soon." Too bad it won't happen that way this time around...

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10-27-11, 03:11 PM (EST)
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94. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
What would please me most in the next episode would be:

A player gets back in the game from Boring Island,
Boring Island is discontinued, it's a regular game from now on,
BUT
HaHa! it's a faux (Thailand) merge,
and BOTH tribes have to go to Tribal and boot someone (start the Jury!),
Individual Immunity is now what you crave (one or two, that would be a great bonus question),
and boyohboyohboy, you HII holders, whatta you do now!!!

That would be great.

Obviously, since this is a best case scenario, it just won't happen, they'll never be that good to me.

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10-27-11, 04:18 PM (EST)
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97. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
LAST EDITED ON 10-27-11 AT 04:19 PM (EST)

While you are technically true, I was referring to the 2 people involved in the move not anything else -- Ozzy & John actually talked about & agreed to Ozzy giving John the HII for "safekeeping" until he got back and the tribe spoke about the possibility of merge not happening -- it was a danger of which everyone was aware, hence the giving of the HII to John, just in case merge doesn't happen, or Ozzy loses at RI. There was an offer, agreement & acceptance here as to all terms. Kind of a contract, to use a legal term.

JT and Russell never spoke, JT just assumed their was an all girl alliance & sent Russell over the HII with a note *asking* him to use it to save himself & vote out Pavarti, but without any agreement from Russell that he would. In contrast to the Ozzy-John move (i.e., contract), the JT-Russell move was a GIFT.

Completely different moves even if the ultimate objectives (i.e, numbers at merge) was the same.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 08:27 PM (EST)
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105. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
First of all, a contract in Survivor! Not that's funny! Talk to Yau Man about that. LMAO!

Next, Russell and JT did speak (JT telling Russell to hang in there and Russell saying help me). Russell and Colby did speak, Colby telling Russell the terms of the deal. They reached an agreement which, in Survivor, was just as valid as your "contract". Here's a play by play of it all:

http://funny115.com/v2/5.htm

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10-27-11, 09:20 PM (EST)
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108. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
You can mock my use of the word contract & gift as an analogy* all you want, it STILL doesn't make the 2 moves the SAME. IOW, you are STILL dead wrong the 2 moves "being on par" with each other for all the points I've laid out -- more then once, even with the use of an analogy* to help you -- and which you STILL fail to address.

*please look that word "analogy" up if you don't know what it means.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 08:22 PM (EST)
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104. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
Complete information? Absolutely not. Ozzy doesn't know if the merge is coming and doesn't know if he will beat Christine.

Also, you never have comlete information within your own tribe so giving an idol is never conditional: Once Ozzy talked about his big idea, Jim, Dawn, Whitney and Cochran could have plotted together to make sure Ozzy would follow through in order to get him out of camp and keep his idol. Cochran alone cannot decide to keep the idol but, if Jim, Whitney and Dawn are part of the plan, they all share credit and blame in front of the jury.

Both moves are equally risky. JT's move could have given the game to the Heroes just like Ozzy's move can give it to Savaii but Ozzy could be made to look just as foolish as JT.

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10-27-11, 09:22 PM (EST)
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109. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
LAST EDITED ON 10-27-11 AT 09:22 PM (EST)

See my posts above --which you seem to keep ignoring & failing to address so you can stay with you myopic view -- both sides knowing the risks is COMPLETE information.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 10:25 PM (EST)
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111. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
LAST EDITED ON 10-27-11 AT 10:32 PM (EST)

No need for insults. I saw that post and answered somewhere in the meandering curl.

Or maybe you meant your edited: Dfferent moves, same objective? Then I'd say that the objective being the reason for the move, that is what matters most. But, above all that, the similarities come from the potential for disaster. Similarly to what Parvati said of JT, we could say of Ozzy: I can't believe this kid offered to be voted out.

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10-27-11, 11:41 PM (EST)
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115. "RE: Jeff's Face at Tribal"
Insults? Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. I didn't insult you.
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10-26-11, 08:54 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 09:30 PM (EST)

They are telling Jeff the plan. Ozzy needs redemption.

The plan is that Ozzy will tell Christine presumably at the duel that Cochran found the idol, didn't tell anyone, and played it to get Ozzy out. Cochran is being set up as a double agent.

Cochran votes Ozzy, says thank you. Ozzy jokes he's playing the idol to send Cochran to RI after all.

Ozzy out after 4 votes.

Jeff says they made a big assumption that the merge is next.

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10-26-11, 08:56 PM (EST)
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42. "Pre Tribal Council"
LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 09:32 PM (EST)

Night time, we see Ozzy lying awake and a crab....Ozzy is awake all night...Dawn asks him how he's doing, his head hurts. Cochran is still apologizing to Dawn...see birds in flight, then we see Ozzy walking in the jungle...yesterday before Cochran cost us the challenge, last night I dreamt I would do what I said I would do, goes and gets his idol, he's making a grand entrance, everyone thinks Cochran should go, I came to redeem myself, the question is, will the tribe go for it....he gives it to Cochran. He is thinking he should go to RI, what do you think Cochran, I agree that people think it should be me, but I don't have confidence. it was like the gospel, i could have died, right there....the reaction to Ozzy was met with some opposition....Keith thinks that everyone should stand up for their own actions, so I don't agree with it....Keith: we are only as strong as our weakest link and that's Cochran, so what hope do we have for another team challenge....Jim: if we are wrong about another team challenge, we are screwed, a scary position to be in....they go to TC...

First confessional, Ozzy, at the end of the last challenge alot of emotion and finger pointing, and most of the fingers went to cochran....he started to panic and didn't know how to deal with it in a fast way, this is my worst nightmare, Jim says he was at a point of frustration, he threw his hands up....have you ever been in this position before? No, it's mixed emotions that we are probably merging tomorrow and we are hoping that RI will help us, who ever goes to RI can go and beat Christine and make it 6 to 6....

JiffY; your plan is whoever goes will beat Christine and come back....Ozzy: it's not his life on the line, it's mine...Ozzy says he sees the dream and RI, and my own redemption, last time he didn't listen to his heart and gut, and this would be listening to his heart and gut....to play the biggest game that he wants to play....he tells Jeff he has the idol, I give it up. I will tell Christine that Cochran found the idol and kept it from us, and he played the idol and got me out....

What if we don't merge tomorrow?....Ozzy: there is that possibility....at least I'd go out on my terms, and no one elses. What if you don't win, you go out a bigger fool than last time. Keith says he doesn't like it, he was the most vocal....Jim worst thing that happens, would be if Ozzy loses and we have to go the 5 of us against the 6 of them...Keith votes first...Cochran votes Ozzy and says:22 seasons he's never seen something like this, he's thrilled to be a part of it, thank you...

last voter, Ozzy

Tally
Ozzy teases he has changed his mind, he wants Cochran to go...no just kidding, gives Cochran his idol

Ozzy
Oz
Ozzy
Ozzy

Lucky seven...you can do it, Ozzy....He runs off , and Cochran wears the HII necklace....you just made the biggest move in Survivor history based on one assumption, that the merge is coming...

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10-27-11, 00:26 AM (EST)
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73. "RE: Pre Tribal Council"
Loved the way Ozzy goofed on Cochran about changing his mind. And really loved they way he ran off - clearly stoked to be going to RI. Can't wait to see how next week plays out!
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10-26-11, 08:59 PM (EST)
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45. "Preview."
Nerdiva With Power.

Does anyone else hate being right this much?

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10-26-11, 09:04 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: Preview."
Meh. All talk from someone without the balls to do the walk. John didn't get Ozzy voted out; John didn't *get* his idol. That was all Ozzy.
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10-26-11, 08:59 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 09:01 PM (EST)

Preview hinges on Ozzy winning duel and Cochran staying loyal. Christine guesses that Cochran was responsible for Ozzy getting voted out. Ozzy says "yes!" I am loving this.

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10-26-11, 09:04 PM (EST)
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48. "Next time on Survivor..."
We see the build the pole challenge and reach for the keys to unlock the jail cell challenge. It was the very first challenge of last years season....when Matt beat Francesca.

With the potential merge on the horizen for Ozzy's plan to work, he has to win, and Cochran has to stay loyal....first you get the ego maniac, returning player voted out, then you get his idol, then you get th emillion dollars!
Hear Ozzy say, Hello, hello....

Ozzy at RI....the move to get myself voted out was either the stupiest thing I've ever done or one of the most iconic moves in the history of Survivor...

Then see Christine and Ozzy....

Christine: what happened? Guess....Christine says, Cochran! Ozzy says, YeS, how did you know that?

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kiki_k 1444 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 01:16 AM (EST)
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77. "Jeff Touts"
Jeff: "Here's the tease for next week: If you thought Ozzy's move was big, you ain't seen nothing yet, oh, oh baba baby, you ain't seen nothing yet" (he actually sings the last part, so just take my word on that one & save your eardrums).

In the video right before the tout, he approved Ozzy's move "I liked it. It is a move by someone who is playing to win." With Jeff's seal of approval on it, it must pan out, at least as far as Ozzy winning next week's duel & being the RI returnee at merge.

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10-27-11, 06:38 AM (EST)
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78. "RE: Jeff Touts"
Kiki, I am a great Ozzy fan as well. But, I didn't see the episode as you did. Yes, I see Ozzy and Cochran working together to the end. I see Ozzy as the hero. But, having Ozzy in the game post merge is like Rob having Phillip in the game post merge. Cochran will wind up in the favorable position, cause as long as Ozzy is in the game with him, there is a far greater target than himself....and, whether we agree with his snide, comical remarks at the end of the show or not, it still counts as a million dollar quote. And, I hate Cochran. I find that he is a little weasel that worms his way through, definitely not deserving over others there, imo!

Anyway, to get to my point. I was more secure that things were going to work out last week with the cracking Upolu tribe. But, they really seem more unified now and with Coach's words and his conviction to a great tribe and family gives me pause. But, now with Jeff's tout, "you ain't seen nothing yet...." I am given more hope. I have never waivered from Ozzy winning the duel on RI. Clearly, this is going to work. But, now we know how Cochran is going to work his way into the Upolu tribe.....he will indeed become the trojan horse! And, I still think the whole plan is going to work!

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10-27-11, 10:59 AM (EST)
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82. "RE: Jeff Touts"
The plan hinges on what Upolu does with Cochran...do they tell him the real boot or a fake boot. I would do the latter bc you should never really trust an "outsider." However, is Jiffy's Tout talking about how Cochran is able to "weasel" (for kiki ) his way into the Upolu family.

At RI duel Ozzy will tell Upolu that the HII from Savii has been used by Cochran to oust him. So Upolu will assume that Savaii has no HI and they do not have to deal with an idol bounce. But Savs do have HI and if Upolu tells Cochran who they are really voting for they can use it to oust Albert (the strongest Up) The Ups don't use their HI bc they think Cochran is with them 7-5 to oust either Ozzy or Keith

However, it seems to me from Jiffy's tout that something more is going to happen...do the Savs figure out a way to get the nos. without using HII and making Ups use theirs incorrectly (the Edgardo move--one of my faves of all time)

I need to think more and need more clues Does anyone know when Maxx is to post this week?

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Corvis 3116 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 11:12 AM (EST)
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83. "RE: Jeff Touts"
I'm hoping for December 31.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 11:29 AM (EST)
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86. "RE: Jeff Touts"
Friday, from what I read, which could mean Saturday AM, who really knows. I'm not going to be too concerned about it. In all honesty, this season the promos have been telegraphing a lot, Maxx is almost pointless.
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10-27-11, 02:53 PM (EST)
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93. "RE: S23 Ep 7 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
The summary from last night's episode "A Trojan Horse and a Pack of Trojans is up in Bashers here Enjoy!


I'm not sure who came first hosting games, you or Tribe, but you are both nefarious! - CTGirl

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10-28-11, 06:20 PM (EST)
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127. "Not to offend but"
LAST EDITED ON 10-29-11 AT 02:00 AM (EST)

this thread has gotten somewhat unwieldy and since its original function is long since over, may I suggest that the ongoing discussions be taken up in the various episode 8 and future episode threads (or feel free to start a new one if you think the topic merits it).

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10-29-11, 12:41 PM (EST)
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128. "And we'll conclude this thread..."
... with a full play-by-play recap!
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10-29-11, 12:48 PM (EST)
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129. "RE: And we'll conclude this thread..."
A fitting conclusion and a great recap Cahaya!
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