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"In defense of the show"
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Conferences Jon & Kate Plus 8 Forum (Protected)
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PagongRatEater 12973 desperate attention whore postings
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06-03-09, 02:03 PM (EST)
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"In defense of the show"
Their marital problems apart, this show has gotten a lot of criticism as exploitive of the children, inappropriate or a sign of the apocalypse. I'd like to offer another take.

The very clear fact about this show is if it weren't for the show, books and fame this family would be living in abject poverty. They woulf not have many of the basic things that they need in everyday life to provide for their children and certainly these kids would be denied many of the benfits that they have today.

This is not an octo-mom situation where Kate was trying to have 8 children. It is something that just happened and they took advantage of an opportunity to allow their family to cope financially. I cannot and do not blame them for that. Perhaps each can be brought to task for how they have handled their celebrity, but honestly I think that they have been more grounded that most who are in the glare of the spotlight.

I just see a family that had a VERY rough road ahead of them who have a nice home, room for their kids to play, a car that accomodates them, help as they need it, can provide medical care for their children and can raise their children in a safe, happy environment.


A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: In defense of the show Snidget 06-03-09 1
   RE: In defense of the show PagongRatEater 06-03-09 2
       RE: In defense of the show samboohoo 06-03-09 4
       RE: In defense of the show Snidget 06-03-09 5
           RE: In defense of the show HobbsofMI 06-04-09 9
               RE: In defense of the show Snidget 06-04-09 10
                   RE: In defense of the show HobbsofMI 06-05-09 15
                       RE: In defense of the show Snidget 06-05-09 17
   RE: In defense of the show samboohoo 06-03-09 3
       RE: In defense of the show blacknwhitedog 06-03-09 7
       RE: In defense of the show newsomewayne 06-04-09 8
           RE: In defense of the show samboohoo 06-08-09 19
 RE: In defense of the show zombiebaby 06-03-09 6
   RE: In defense of the show weltek 06-04-09 11
       RE: In defense of the show JessicaRN 06-04-09 12
           RE: In defense of the show PagongRatEater 06-04-09 13
           RE: In defense of the show Snidget 06-04-09 14
               RE: In defense of the show HobbsofMI 06-05-09 16
                   RE: In defense of the show Snidget 06-05-09 18
                       RE: In defense of the show samboohoo 06-08-09 20

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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06-03-09, 02:12 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: In defense of the show"
Were they in abject poverty before they decided to procreate?

Who paid for the fertility treatments she needed for both pregnancies if she was unable to afford a car or a home before going on TV?

Her pregnancies didn't just happen and she didn't have 6 at a time naturally. Now she was on drugs where you shouldn't have sex after they check to see if you are releasing too many eggs, but a lot of people choose to risk it even if they are releasing many eggs instead of just a few.

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PagongRatEater 12973 desperate attention whore postings
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06-03-09, 02:20 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: In defense of the show"
Sure there is a risk of having multiples with fertility treatments, but given that sextuplets are so very rare I don't think that this was considered a realistic possibility at the time of inception.

Otherwise, I don't think I need to point out the vast difference in cost, needs, expenses, et al related to having 8 kids instead of 2. I know that I do pretty well financially, but I would be living in a two bedroom apartment within a year if I had 8. This show has allowed them opportunities that they simply would not have had otherwise. And provided them with a safe environment to raise their large family. I don't see how anyone but a millionaire could do it any other way.


A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

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samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings
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06-03-09, 03:19 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: In defense of the show"
I agree. Big difference here. Big difference.


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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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06-03-09, 04:31 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: In defense of the show"
From what I've read at some point they knew she had too many eggs (not sure if it was this cycle or not).

They are supposed to check your ovaries after you start taking the drugs and before you have unprotected sex.

They can't stop you from doinking when it is unwise to try to get pregnant. Unfortunately a lot of couples will play the lottery on a cycle they are supposed to be avoiding sex and try for it anyway.

It isn't just you take the fertility drugs and there is no way anyone could ever predict if this was a month where you are likely to have way too many eggs all at the same time. They can and should be monitoring that.

That is why I originally thought Octomom was on fertility drugs rather than in vitro. I mean who knew her doctor was insane enough to stuff 6-8 embryos in a woman with a uterus that implants well.

I know lots of parents even in this day and age that do not have to have a TV show to raise some pretty large families. They may not be able to do it in the style of those that sell themselves and seem to seek out fame (it really isn't the show so much as a lot of the carp going on outside of the show that makes me think they want the fame more than they want their marriage) but it can be done.

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HobbsofMI 15959 desperate attention whore postings
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06-04-09, 08:49 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: In defense of the show"
LAST EDITED ON 06-04-09 AT 08:54 AM (EST)

My understanding is they did IUI not IVF. IUI is the turkey basters method. Sometimes in IUI they use fertility drugs to get more eggs, if the problem is with the eggs/mom, but most of the time they find the the peak and he gives a sample, it's washed and they are injected.

So unlike when you do IVF and you have a choice of the number to put back, IUI lets nature takes it own coarse.

If you take the drugs, you'll get more eggs. Mrs. Hobbs has about 20 each time and they all could be seen in an ultrasound. So you know the count even in IUI.


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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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06-04-09, 09:22 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: In defense of the show"
Usually the high multiples are from the drugs + sperm rather than IVF. I don't know it always has to be turkey baster vs other delivery systems.

They are supposed to try to calibrate that so you stick to the lower end of the multiple range, but that doesn't always work.

But to say her 6 just happened and there was no way to know something would happen doesn't sound right to me. Usually you at least know there is a risk of way too many embryos and someone makes the decision to go ahead anyway.

Like the Octomom I'd think they'd be more careful (unless they needed 20+ eggs to get 2 the first time around after several rounds of less extreme measures) since they know she can get past the implantation part of the process. Some women really have trouble with that stage and they may need to stuff more in to get the one in a hundred that might actually go, but once you've had a successful pregnancy I would think they'd be more conservative rather than much less.

I may be basing this on Moms that did it the old fashioned way with fertility issues before the days of drugs and in vitro but sometimes it seems the first pregnancy actually makes things more likely to happen later (assuming you can get the egg to sperm thing to happen at all in the average range of numbers). I know quite a few tried for 5 or more years without any result that ended up with several kids in a row after the first one took.

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HobbsofMI 15959 desperate attention whore postings
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06-05-09, 03:22 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: In defense of the show"
LAST EDITED ON 06-05-09 AT 03:24 PM (EST)

It all depends on what the problem is with the couple on why they can't get pregnant. I know one friends wife just could not hold on to it. She could get pregnant but at about the 6 to 8 week mark, bam, miscarriage.

I remember from one of there first specials or viewer question shows they told how it all came about and I remember Kate being admit that they did IUI and not IVF and they only wanted one but got 6 and Jon and her agreed ahead of time not to reduce unless it was a health issue. It's always up to the doc and the couple but the doc will advise what he thinks is safe for you and the possible babies.

Thus like the second time we did IVF the doc suggested one the past history that we put all 5 back instead of the normal 3 on day 3 instead of trying to wait if any reached blast on day 5. First time we put back 3, froze 4 on the doc's opinion.

We did IUI 3 times but she took no drugs to increase the egg count so if Kate took drugs to increase the number of eggs there must have been a reason for the doc to do it. All the docs we've ever sat with had the highest respect for what they did and how they did it. A few bad apples did Octomom.

I can only how that will happen for us... get one and then more if we want easier than the first.


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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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06-05-09, 04:43 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: In defense of the show"
Assuming the article quoted on wiki was correct they were doing drugs because she has polycystic ovary disease and won't ovulate on any sort of schedule without drugs so unless you induce the eggs.

The original wouldn't open so the timing of when she was hospitalized because of an overstimulated ovary problem and when the pregnancy occurred I can't tell. But the wiki entry from an article about the pregnancies almost made it sound like they could have been the same cycle.

If you are doing the drugs you are only supposed to try to get pregnant on a cycle with eggs, but not too many. However I think a lot of people roll the dice anyway because they'd rather risk having 6 or 8 at a time than risk having to try at a later date.

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samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings
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06-03-09, 03:19 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: In defense of the show"
What is this about the car? I don't think I've heard that before.

From what I recall, she was a nurse, he was in IT. She even worked a bit after the babies were born, if I recall correctly. I think the job issue has always been an issue with Jon, but I don't know about them being close to poverty. And they had a house, it just wasn't big enough.


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blacknwhitedog 6528 desperate attention whore postings
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06-03-09, 04:57 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: In defense of the show"
seems Jon could not hold down a job and got fired quite a few times- although one case went to court and was dropped- seems the company fired him when they found out they were about to add 6 dependents to their health care plan- he finally got an IT with the State of Penn- he later quit

from her book it sounds like they could not have made it at all without a lot of donations of money and things (clothes, cribs, a van) from family and friends- she talks about not being able to pay their mortgage or bills without donations

also I guess she was raised in a trailer park and her family had money problems- something that I'm sure plays into her own insecurity about money

Kate did go back to work for awhile at the dialysis center and also worked part time at a tanning place at one point



Syren 2007


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newsomewayne 9065 desperate attention whore postings
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06-04-09, 08:42 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: In defense of the show"
And they had a house, it just wasn't big enough.

My grandmother (widowed) raised 4 boys and and a daughter, all within 12 years of each other. The four boys shared 2 beds in 1 12x12 room, and my grandmother and aunt shared the other room. Not the largest family, but still they made do with what they had.

My MIL is the youngest of 16 kids. She grew up in a modest 3BR/1BA ~1000 sq.ft. house. Granted, they didn't all live there at the same time, but still...


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samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings
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06-08-09, 10:25 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: In defense of the show"
I have one boy and one husband. Three people in an almost 2200 square footer. There are many, many, many, many times where it ain't big enough.

A family of 11 grew up around the corner from me when I was young. They had four boys in one room, two boys in room with them and one boy in a basement room. They also only had one full bath. Each girl had her own room, but they were tiny rooms. They managed, shifting the little boys out of their bedroom when the older boys left for college. Then years later, her parents financed a basement makeover complete with four additional bedrooms and another full bath.


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zombiebaby 7355 desperate attention whore postings
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06-03-09, 04:39 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: In defense of the show"
I don't think we know the whole story either.

I've read some sites *shudders at the GWoP blog* that claim she did have the second fertility treatments with a different doctor pretty quickly after the twins. Plus they were young when they went for the treatments and that they were not unable to have children the "old fashioned way". I think it just would have taken a bit longer. They seem to insinuate that she did do it to have a high multiple birth.

I think they would had difficulties without the show salary naturally and finding a car or vacations would be out of the questions. But they could make it. Their home before this big one was nice I thought. Pretty good size to me. Again I think the issue has been Jon, he does not seem able to hold a job. They would have needed two salaries.

Hind sight is 20/20. I think I would have done the show if offered. I think that the kids did gain some pretty good experiences out of it. How else would they have been able to go to some of those places? The best bet probably would have been to keep their jobs, do an update show once a year, maybe do a book or two and keep the best of both worlds.


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weltek 16933 desperate attention whore postings
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06-04-09, 01:05 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: In defense of the show"
Ditto on everything you said. I think they were financially wise to do this show for a year. I think they'd be financially ok had they just done that and some other appearances, specials and maybe a book. They kids would be fine and have opportunities.

I don't think this show is the only reason their marriage went to crap. I think that might have happened had they both kept working and trying to raise 8 kids. I think they are selfish for continuing to do the show. THEY'VE gotten used to the fame and money.



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JessicaRN 1070 desperate attention whore postings
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06-04-09, 01:48 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: In defense of the show"
If I were in their situation 5 years ago, I would have done the show also. I would have taken the pay and all of the perks offered to me. However, when it became obvious that my marriage was suffering I would have taken everything and retreated from the public eye. According to Kate, she knew that John was unhappy for a while, so I'm pretty sure that increasing her travel schedule is not the way to fix a marriage.

TLC should pull the show, because now when I watch the current ones, it all just feels like they are trying to manipulate the audience. Perhaps they can agree to revisit this family in a year or two when things have worked their way out, in whatever manner they will.

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PagongRatEater 12973 desperate attention whore postings
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06-04-09, 09:08 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: In defense of the show"
Agree completely. Very good thoughts.


A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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06-04-09, 09:19 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: In defense of the show"
I do think that taking advantage of an opportunity that will make a big difference for your family can be a good thing.

The hard part is when the fame and the goodies can tempt you away from focusing on what is really important and not being able to pull out when you need to.

I mean it does happen to families with other jobs that no one ever notices, as well as other things.

I hope they can get counseling or something to get things worked out and take time away from the spotlight if they need it. That isn't always easy

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HobbsofMI 15959 desperate attention whore postings
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06-05-09, 03:26 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: In defense of the show"
Money can never buy you happiness.


GO WINGS! 2008 Stanley Cup Champs!
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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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06-05-09, 04:43 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: In defense of the show"
No it can't, but sometimes the difference between some money and no money can buy you out of a lot of misery.
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samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings
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06-08-09, 10:28 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: In defense of the show"
Completely agree.

And I, could make money buy me plenty of happiness.


Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie


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