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"Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-11, 01:18 PM (EST)
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"Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
I mean, I like the guy and all, but he's gotta be one of the worst ever.

He has been to a total of three Tribal Councils.
He has gotten voted out of two of them.

That is just indefensibly bad.


I don't care if he has to play against Boston Rob, HE KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT BOTH TRIBES AND YOU STILL GOT VOTED OFF AGAIN.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... suzzee 04-07-11 1
 RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... kingfish 04-07-11 2
 RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... dabo 04-07-11 3
 RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... Brownroach 04-07-11 4
 RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... michel 04-07-11 5
   RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... Jims02 04-07-11 7
       RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... kingfish 04-08-11 9
           RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... Spanky68 04-09-11 20
               RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... kingfish 04-09-11 21
       RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... michel 04-08-11 11
           RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... Jims02 04-08-11 14
               RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... kingfish 04-08-11 15
                   RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... michel 04-08-11 16
                       RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... kingfish 04-08-11 18
                           RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... michel 04-08-11 19
                               RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... kingfish 04-09-11 22
                                   RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... michel 04-09-11 24
 RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... agman 04-07-11 6
 RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... Colonel Zoidberg 04-08-11 8
   RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... iltarion 04-08-11 10
   RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... michel 04-08-11 12
       RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... Jims02 04-08-11 13
           RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... michel 04-08-11 17
           RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... Brownroach 05-12-11 26
               RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... michel 05-12-11 27
 RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... Belle Book 04-09-11 23
 RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... BIGRAN77741 05-12-11 25
   RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... PepeLePew13 05-12-11 28
       RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ev... suzzee 05-13-11 29

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suzzee 4956 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-11, 01:42 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
He thinks everyone is like him, hasn't got the faintest idea that they're not. This may be his best life lesson. I wonder how he would have done if Rob wasn't there.


A Tribe masterpiece


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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-11, 02:35 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
He is Eric 2.0


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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-11, 03:48 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
Too much time on Redemption Island alone to play out in his head every possible move in chess. That, and if you do or say one little thing to upset Rob, no matter how innocuous or invented in Rob's fantasy, well you just have to be punished for that don't you. Did he tell you the one about the stuffed animal that's ringleader of the stuffed animals? We're off to see the Wizard...


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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-11, 05:54 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
I think Matt never figured out, and was never told by anyone, that the main thing that sealed his fate the first time was that BRob was convinced Matt was likely to flip after BRob saw him shake hands with the other team.

So when Matt was spilling the beans to BRob he thought he was just being reassuring about his loyalty to Ometepe, which he had been reiterating at Redemption Island. Whereas BRob just saw it as proof that he had been right all along.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-11, 05:55 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
As of now, he's tied with Burton as the only player to have been totally blindsided twice in one season. I'd still put Burton as the worst strategist because it was his idea to throw the challenge that led to his first boot. After coming back, he was completely in charge of the game because of JFP and all he had to do was to promise Lil he'd take her to the F2. He fumbled and was quickly dispatched once again. Matt never had control so it was never his strategy.

Over the course of 3 seasons, Poopert and StepheMe are undoubtedly tied for worst ever. Neither really understands the game yet. Coach could easily join them if he gets another invite.


Ils sont fous, ces Romains!

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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-11, 11:52 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
LAST EDITED ON 04-07-11 AT 11:53 PM (EST)

The Burton comparison is an interesting one, because they both did re-enter the game in somewhat similar situations. In the case of Burton, Morgan and Drake merged at about even (I think they were even in numbers), and everyone was voting down tribal lines. And Burton had a potential ally in his old tribe, Jonny Fairplay, like Matt potentially had with Andrea.

The big differences between the scenarios is definitely Lillian, whose presence made a swing much easier to bring about (in comparison to Matt).

I still think I'd give the edge to Matt as a worse strategic player, just only because of how badly he managed the merge. With Burton, you could argue that he at least got blind-sided in two different ways by different sets of people. And, ironically, both players had the same idea about the merge. Matt's initial idea was to play both sides as well, knocking off a couple Zapatera and then swinging back with Andrea... Very much like Burton/Fairplay/Lillian.

Sure, Burton did pick off Savage and Ryno with the Drakes, but he had the good sense not to stick with them. Matt chose to stick it out after confessing to conspiracy to the alliance leader. And, unlike Burton who at least had JFP looking out for him, Matt didn't even have Andrea or Phillip.

Matt had no idea who his real alliance was, whereas at least Burton knew where his bread was buttered.


A 2003 IceCat original

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-11, 11:37 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
Them of course, there is the fact that Matt, a young healthy seemingly straight Fabio look-alike, with three nights all alone on a deserted Pacific Isle with each of five different women, all of them depressed and with self-worth issues, he did nothing. Reportedly.

Did not even use the old tried and true "No one's looking, let's skinny dip" line.

That is not thinking. Strategic or otherwise. With either head. The guy is a dumb bunny from the land of Dumbo-ville and if somehow he wins a million (very long odds), I want to be on hand to sell him a Condo in Cuckooland.

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Spanky68 8092 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-11, 01:18 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
I agree that his game strategy is horrible. But if he didn't make a move on the booted girls, it doesn't automatically mean he doesn't like girls. It could mean that he has decided not to have sex before marriage, especially on a TV show where he is filmed.

I know that is a long shot in today's society. But it is a possibility. And if it is the case, I think it is incredibly admirable.

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-11, 08:40 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
Granted. You make a good point, he showed admirable restraint. And there was the inhibiting presence of the day/night camera crews to take into account.

That was meant to be a sort of semi-tongue in cheek response, and I'll admit it was misplaced. I don't really consider it to be a sign of intellectual weakness to restrain oneself in such circumstances.


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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-11, 05:29 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
Can we agree we are dealing with two incredibly stupid players?

To me, your argument comes down to saying that Fairplay was a better, or at the very least bolder, player than Andrea. JFP understood that Burton and Lil were his ticket to the million so he empowered them. Andrea couldn't see that Matt could be good for her game. Was it a case of getting cold feet or is she that dumb, we can't know yet but it hurt Matt. Not totally his fault as was his first boot. That handshake was not a sin. Burton demanded that his tribe throw a challenge. When he returned, he couldn't simply say: "Yes Lil, it's you and I in the F2."

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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-11, 06:40 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-11 AT 06:42 PM (EST)

I would definitely agree that JFP is a much bolder player than Andrea. There's no debate there.

My problem is that an alliance is a two-person relationship, so there's responsibility on both people's parts. Is it Matt's fault that Andrea wasn't looking out for him because of his confession to Boston Rob? Or is it Andrea's fault because she's not a bold player?

In this case, I'd argue it's more Matt's fault. Matt's confession did two game-killing things, 1) enrage Boston Rob enough to make Matt the target, and 2) annoy Andrea by ratting her out in front of Rob. He would've had a much better chance of surviving #1 if it wasn't for #2 happening. In essence he made himself the target while cutting off his one lifeline, at exactly the same time.

If Burton would've pulled something like that with JFP, I'm pretty sure JFP would've just run back to Sandra/Rupert crying. Or else ran to the Morgans. But, in Burton's favor, he didn't bite the hand that was feeding him.

(It's still difficult to use the comparison exactly, since Lillian changes the complexion of the game so much. Having one extra Zapatera person around this week would've saved Matt. Or at least for this week.)


A 2003 IceCat original

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-11, 07:21 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
Ok. So y'all are being serious?

Although there is no real argument with all those mentioned as well as a few so far unmentioned (Lex's gut doesn't rate a mention?), and although I think Matt takes the prize for being the most aggravatingly stupid loser, I'd like to again toss in Eric as top Hall of Dumb Fame material,

It really is hard to argue that the the guy that had Immunity in hand, who was then talked out of it just before TC with the flimsy "Trust me" con, and subsequently voted out at the next TC by those to whom he ceded the Idol, is the single dumbest move ever. So dumb that IMO it trumps the multiple boneheaded moves of others.

Matt, I think, qualifies as top idiot in the the multiple chump moves category, but those others are indeed worthy of honorable mention.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-11, 07:36 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
Yes, Kingfish, Erik and Lex were dumb but Lex survived and Eirk was only voted out once. Even if the editors try to sell us that a player is blindsided, it is extremely rare that it happens. For example, John of Rotu knew full well he was leaving but it was edited as the biggest surprise since Gretchen. Burton and Matt were blindsided twice. Total, complete blindsides both times. That is rare, so much so that I have to put them on top of my list of dumb players.

And this you may not know about Erik: He was hoping for a F3 with Natalie and Cirie. He knew Cirie was loved while he wasn't. He knew that his idol, Ozzy, hadn't done enough to win the game despite all his challenge exploits. Erik was convinced he'd lose to Cirie so he wanted to be able to point to a strategic move. The plan was extremely risky but he trusted Natalie and Cirie. Since neither of those two won, the argument could be made that they should have voted out Amanda then and Parvati next and went with Erik.

Speaking of your surprises, I'm always surprised that no one ever mentions Alex who, for absolutely no reason at all, told Rob C that he'd be voting him out at F4 when they were only at F7.

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-11, 09:16 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
When you stop and think about all the seasons, there really are a lot of strategies, moves, and Survivors that could qualify as the worst ever, or the dumbest. In my mind there really is no equal to Eric in dumb moves, but as far as "worst strategist", I guess I can agree that one has to actually have a viable strategy to even be considered that, and in spite of your spec as to his thinking, I saw none with him. I just saw dupe. Pigeon. Dumbass. Maybe that was just me.

Another contender? I even think as a group, the women of the Vanuatu merged tribe might qualify. They had an avowed (and EPMB arranged) female alliance, and after voting out all but one of the men as was their strategy, they had six females except for that one guy, Chris D. remaining. Yet somehow Chris didn't get voted out and actually won the big money. Somehow, that group of six women has to rank up there as particularly bad strategists.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-11, 09:34 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
I'll certainly won't argue that Erik wasn't dumb or gullible but he knew what he was risking. Matt and Burton had no idea what was going on. That's the difference I see.

As for the women of Vanuatu, you are forgetting Scout's role. Scout, from day 1, planned on creating dissension in Yasur. In fact, I say that Russell used her strategy, simply pushing it to the next level.

Scout knew that a tribe that loved each other would target her first. They'd all say: "Sorry Scout, we love you but you are the weakest" and they'd vote her out. But, if everyone hated each other, it gave her a chance. That's why she was always picking on Eliza until finally Leann and Amy relented and agreed to eliminate Eliza. What did Scout do then? She told Twila to get Chris on board to save Eliza. It didn't give Scout the win but 3rd place was better than the 5th place Leann had just promised her. All this to say that there wasn't any Vanuatu group of women using a common strategy.

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-11, 09:04 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
You're right of course, there were modifying circumstances that led to the result that they had. The Scout/Twila/Eliza thing certainly caused their strategy to be foiled, and Leanne had a pivotal vote (and made a remarkably bad decision) too.

But they did have a strategy at one point, and that was to get rid of the men. Which would have been a good one, as it turned out.

But even if as a group they abandoned that plan and after that point didn't have a strategy, the lack of a plan is a very bad strategy in and of itself. And the net result of a group who were aligned at one point to vote off the men was that a man won. Six aligned women against one guy, and the guy won. With a majority of women on the jury, the lone male actually won.

That strategy, or lack of strategy, or even their inability to adhere to a strategy due to internal conflicts, was a very bad group strategy just based on the result if nothing else.

I won't argue that they deserve the all time "worst Strategist" title, Burton or even Sean may take the cake there, but the outcome of Vanuatu 6's strategy was a remarkable if explicable failure.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-11, 01:52 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
The thing is though that Survivor isn't a team sport. Many groups have done stupid things:
-Boran was dumb but Samburu even dumber.
-The Rotu 4 voting out Gabe was an all-time blunder.
- Suck Job throwing a challenge sent them on a tail spin.
- The Axis of Evil let Danni win.
- Timbira opened the door to a Jalapao final 2.

But, as a group, nothing tops Galu. Nothing comes close to their stupidity.

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agman 11158 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-11, 08:50 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
Poor guy just doesn't get out enough!



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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-11, 11:19 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
Matt is a ridiculously bad strategist if for no other reason than that he talked too much. Had he been smart at the merge, he would have thrown in his lot with Ometepe even if he were considering a flip. And, having been out of the game as long as he was, he should not have blabbed to Andrea, who's been around Boston Rob a lot more than Matt's been around either of them. It's as if he expected everything to be just as he left it when he was voted out.

But he's hardly the worst strategist ever - no one's going to top Dr. Alphabet in that regard. Boston Rob would have laughed Dr. Alphabet out of existence. The guy had three golden opportunities to save his skin - and was so dedicated to a bad strategy that he wasted all three. Matt, at the very least, was careless and messing with the wrong guy. Dr. Alphabet was handed a game-changer on a silver platter three times and did nothing.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-11, 03:39 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"

If all things were equal, I could see the logic of going with Dr. Alphabet. Except, of course, things are far from fricking equal. That was Season 1 and only a couple people had any clue how to play the game.

Burton made the much more egregious errors, but if you recast them, I don't think there is any doubt that Burton would have the better chance of advancing far.

With Matt, it is almost intentional. He is more concerned with being himself than he is playing the game. It was more important to him to make a decision that sat right with his conscious than making the smartest decision. In a way, this is similar, if from the opposite direction, to a lot of villians of the show, who are also more interested in the character they are putting on for the TV than they are in winning.


>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-11, 05:34 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-11 AT 05:43 PM (EST)


Colonel, You should read Burnett's book because you are wrong about Sean. Sean knew all along that there was an alliance led by Hatch, he knew he wasn't in it but he did everything he could to get in. He was lying to Pagong in order to impress Hatch. His alphabet strategy was used only because all of Pagong had names at the beginning of the alphabet, Tagi at the end.

Finally, Sean succeeded; Hatch wanted to get him to replace Kelly by F6. A lot of Sean's stupidity was due to the editors. Superpole 2000? Yes that was stupid!

Iltarion, you are right when you say: "if you recast them, I don't think there is any doubt that Burton would have the better chance of advancing far."

That's why I added Rupert, Stephenie and Coach, other players that (like Matt probably wouldn't) didn't learn from their previous mistakes. But, for one season, Burton tops my list and Matt just earned second place.

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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-11, 06:30 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-11 AT 06:44 PM (EST)

I'm glad that Sean got brought up, because his game is one of the most interesting and ambiguous ones ever.

The whole thing was fishy to begin with, especially if you consider how Sean voted for Sonja, Stacey, and Rudy (not Dirk) with no qualms at all. It was only at the merge that he suddenly decided to be "fair" in his voting. And also, we have to consider that he did end up voting for Colleen when she went home (breaking his pattern and voting for her twice). And he voted for Susan on the next vote (instead of Richard or Rudy).

That seems like more than enough evidence to suggest a bit of dis-ingenuity on his part.

Say what you will about the strategy, it is an interesting one, because it kinda (in an idiotic way) gives him some plausible deniability for his votes. And at the same time, he was earning some props from the Tagis. Unfortunately for him, the Pagongs knew exactly what was going on (pointing out the "coincidence" in an episode) and didn't appreciate the disingenuous explanation. If Sean were a lot more charismatic, he might've been able to get away with that nonsense.


I'm thinking that Boston Rob would've probably used Sean, just like the way he uses Phillip now (and tried to use Coach last season). Rob is the Pied Piper of Quirky Survivor Players.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-11, 07:39 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
Yeah, there's really nothing to speculate about Borneo because it's all in Burnett's book. Sean's edit was completely fabricated.
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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-11, 05:57 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
Didn't Sean say he was going to drop the alphabetical voting after Jenna got voted off? Maybe it was because he realized the Pagongs were onto him so it didn't matter. There were only two left at that point anyway.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-11, 08:51 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
When Hatch told him it was stupid, yes, Sean stopped using it.
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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-11, 11:50 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
I don't know if Matt's the worst ever. There were plenty of dumb strategists -- Burton was one. And I'll never forget Erik from Fans vs. Favorites and his boneheaded decision to give up the Immunity necklace! That was really idiotic! But Matt's one of the worst, I'll say that.


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05-12-11, 05:46 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
These mofos b killn me with the i trustd him or her ITSAGAMEABOUTLYING...dumbasses
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05-12-11, 08:59 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
Ralph? Rooster? Is that you?
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suzzee 4956 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Stuff Magazine Centerfold"

05-13-11, 01:42 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Is Matt the worst strategist ever?"
BWAHAHA!

Forced to DAW-up, register and vent. Couldn't be Ralph, he still thinks trust is involved.


A Tribe masterpiece


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